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Hello Jimbo. I thought you might want to weigh in on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barbara Schwarz (4th nomination). I have already invoked your comments about newsgroup postings, OR, etc. related to your own article, but I thought you would want to comment directly. This article has been troublesome from inception, and isn't something that belongs on Wikipedia, IMHO. - Crockspot 19:37, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo, apologies if this is in the wrong place but I am unclear on the banning policy. Please could you ban User:TomGreen who persistently vandalises Grimsby, Grimsby Town F.C., Conoco Stadium and any other site relating to the English town Grimsby. Not only does he vandalise these pages he also deletes all of the warnings given to him on his talk page. Please advise on best course of action. Many thanks. GrimGary 15:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
--Mr Wales. Quite recently I wrote an article about a Canadian Entrepreneur and Businessman in Canada and submitted the article into the wikipedia. Within days it was earmarked for deletion by editors. I contested, an admin stepped in and invited discussion. I presented the argument as to why it should stay, there were 3 comments and no rebuttals to the argument I put forth after which point it was deleted. It is not even in the logs anymore. Now, my concern is that you yourself have an article in the wikipedia and I don't see the difference between one entrepreneur or another. In fact, I see many articles in wikipedia about various entrepreneurs and yet for some reason my article, despite my reasonable debate and citing of other articles was set upon by editors and admins of this site. This does not paint a favourable light on how wikipedia functions. Either allow articles about entrepreneurs or don't allow them, including your own. Can this possibly be made clear as a bell in the rules and conditions pages? Thanks. djamieson
Yes, well thank you anonemouse, that is the "debate" on the matter as you can see, if it's fair to call that a debate at all. Nevertheless, It serves to make my point so thank you for posting a link to it. djamieson
--Thanks for your input JustAnother, but that is my point exactly. THough one can site policies in this site and make these comments such as yours and provide links, it is rather indiscriminate isn't it? The article in question wasn't a who's who type article, it was more or less along the lines of any informative article about a person. By the way, your terse response is exactly the type of response that I got and that is so frustrating. People say one thing yet do another. So there you have it? I don't think so. The question I am asking has to do with are biographies of persons of import. Are they allowed or are they not? Plain and simple. I cite Mr.Wales article and would ask is Mr.Wales any more important than any other businessman or entrepreneur or is wikipedia merely a personal site for the personal agendas of wikipedians? I await an answer. I would like to continue my project without having to deal with the type of passive agressiveness that is apparently ubiquitous and deformative of the intent of this place which can otherwise be a wider resource. Thanks for your input. Djamieson
As an addendum, I would question the validity of all this -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Businessmen -- The category these articles exist within and so on. Djamieson
File:Funkymodem.png | Super Funky 28k Modem | |
I hereby award you this Super Funky 28k Modem for having a last name that begins with W. Smomo 22:13, 11 March 2007 (UTC) |
In a current arbitration case, an issue has been brought up that may depend on whether a particular quote from you was ex cathedra, so to speak, or not. Specifically, should this[2] be taken to mean that good faith should not be assumed of users posting as IP addresses and effort should not be made to afford them the same process as others, and, if so, is it your personal opinion or are you speaking as project leader? --Random832 21:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi. A lot of "Jimbo said ..." arguments are being cited at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Autograph books. Is it at all possible if you could make a current statement considering the developments at that page? While it doesn't make their arguments any more valid, knowing your current opinion on the matter may still help. Thanks. The Behnam 18:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Somebody renamed the article Sex. You can block him/her from editing articles and pages for Wikipedia. Send me a message please.--Jet123 23:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
We have a fairly long discussion on the German Wikipedia on NPOV about the question, if Wikipedia should privilege scientific points of view, with a majority of about 80% agreeing, that we should. However, we were told that we couldn't do that, because you would not support this view and your vision on the core policies of Wikipedia would be decisive, no matter, how many Wikipedia editors might disagree with you. Are these two theses correct? AFAIK at least the latter (you determining the content of the core polcies) is not true, at lest not on Wikipedias other than en, which is the only Wikipedia I know of with WP:OFFICE. Fossa?! 02:34, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Hey man. I'm a australian wikipedia user and I love cleaning up vandilism and bad articles.
Keep up the good work!
-edit- oops i forgot to sign my post. sorry. normally i do it on all edits :P Cocopopz2005 03:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Hope you weren't including me in that edit summary. (→Netscott) 07:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I think you should read this morning's British National newspaper the Mail on Sunday. Which devotes a whole page to the Essjay affair. Four high profile politicians and journalist expand their views on Wikipedia. While the page is not totally negative it is far from good or glowing in its praise. Edwina Curry describes Wikipedia as a load of rubbish. The entire inference is that Wikipedia cannot be trusted and relied upon. Giano 11:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
[un-indent] While it's not much consolation, I can't help smiling at the story's (typically for the press) inaccurate account of the Essjay row. Metamagician3000 13:00, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
(unindent) This doesn't really work with Wikipedia's "soft security" ideas. A normal user who claims to have credentials isn't going to change the project all that much, and besides, everything they say must be sourced as well. But when hiring people to work for a salary (ala Essjay), then yes, credentials should be checked. --Hojimachongtalk 23:05, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
<unindent> If Richard Dawkins wanted to come and edit the Atheism article then he is more than welcome to do so - the conditions he must abide by are NPOV and Verifiability. Who he is makes not a dime of difference - those two conditions must be met. To set up a quick thought experiment - 2 contributors wish to add the exact same material - 1 is an editor named "woooo_wiki_woooooooooo" and one is named "Richard Dawkins". The former has no credentials and the latter has been approved to be who he claims to be. If the material they wish to add is both NPOV and Verifiable then what does it matter who they are? Credentials - by definition - do not matter, unless people are attempting to circumvent NPOV and/or Verifiability. Of course not everyone who wishes to display credentials will have these motives - but people who wish to are more likely to be - otherwise what is the motivation for doing so? This little bit of explanation doesn't even go near the potential for frauding the system - proving who you really say you are is not the easiest in the real world these days - in the online world it is frankly laughable. I have a degree in history from Harvard - disprove it. (of course the retort is - "ahh but you have to prove it - the burden of proof is with you" - that of course is junk, because the first thing I do is come up with some ropey fraud evidence and say "here's your proof" - to which you either have to believe me or start trying to disprove that I have what I say I have). It is a minefield folks - not only will it create a class structure of editors, but it will jeopardize some of the the core principles of this project (that the content stands on its own two feet - not on the reputation of its creator). SFC9394 23:15, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
While I can understand the motivation behind "ban mention of all credentials" approach, I don't think it is the solution to wikipedia's real and perceived credibility problems. First of all, are we talking about only academic credentials or all biographical facts that can possibly be viewed as giving a particular editor's view some additional weight ?
To summarize, I think a blanket-ban on the mention of credentials is an approach that creates more problems than it solves. Of course, I remain committed to the ideal that every statement of fact/opinion in an article needs to be backed by an external reliable source, even if the the fact is added by a super-duper qualified editor. Abecedare 23:25, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I assume previous discussion must have been archived, but I read the story in yesterday's The New York Times[5] that mentioned your idea for voluntary degree verification, and I think it's an excellent idea. I'm an attorney in Minnesota and it worries me (a lot) that there are people pretending to be professional experts on a whole host of subjects (law, medicine, engineering, etc) where a professional or graduate degree can make a difference. Early on in my time here I found myself having to post a direct link to my own name on Minnesota's online licensed attorney listing to gain even a modicum of credibility versus more experienced (but legally incorrect) users that wanted to simply marginalize an opposing opinion as "fake". I just wanted to say that there are a number of us that will support this idea, and thank you for having the strength to put it forward (once again). --Bobak 01:49, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Jimbo, I don't know if you've been follwing this whole thing very much (I sure hope you have been though) but so far, just about all proposals relating to credentials seem to be failing, with the sole exception of the proposal to require ID for users with CheckUser access. The general consensus seems to be that we don't need a radical new policy, we don't need to appease the media, and existing content policy should be adequate. See User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Credential_Verification#Perhaps_the_best_proposal... for a current discussion about this. What we are asking is: Please don't override consensus just to appease the media. Mr.Z-mantalk¢Review! 02:34, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
It looks like I inadvertently made my last edit to an earlier version from the history. Apologies for that. What it said was the following: I'm still not in love with the proposal for reasons I've articulated in the past, but I've sent you [i.e. Jimbo] an e-mail (since there is confidential information involved about my real-life identity) asking you to carry out an exercise that might confirm the workability of what you are proposing and give you an idea of how flexible it would need to be. I'll be interested in your response. I think that some (not all) of the criticisms of the proposal are unfair and not seeing the bigger picture. Metamagician3000 00:29, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I am a high school student with an assingnment to right a analytical research paper, but the thing is I can't use Wikipedia.. and I think Wikipedia's information is the most organized and correct I can find. My teacher says that your site is not a credible or reliable source. I would like to write my paper on how Wikipedia works, like if there is a screening process or what happens when someone puts false information on the site but I don't know where I can find the information I'm looking for without using Wikipedia itself. This isn't that big of a deal I can always find another topic, but if you have anything I can use to prove that your website is credible then I'm all ears. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sanke09 (talk • contribs) 15:14, 16 March 2007 (UTC).
Hey Jimbo, I answered this question myself as best I could, as I sensed he might have needed an answer quickly, but I'm sure you can provide a better answer for him when you next pop in.
And hi! Haven't left a message with you before. Nice to meet the maker! SGGH 15:46, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
---
In my opinion, writing a paper on how Wikipedia works is a bad idea for you. I think it is a bad idea because there are not today enough reliable sources who have published analyses of how Wikipedia works. Could we have a short discussion about picking a good topic for your paper, perhaps on your TalkPage? --Rednblu 18:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
If you know how to use google you can find stuff. For example using http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=-blog+Sanger+Britannica++wikipedia+wales+wikimedia+GFDL++foundation+law+freedom&btnG=Search I found http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:btMdgief8QkJ:www.sciencepub.net/0402/14-0142-mahongbao.doc+-blog+Sanger+Britannica+wikipedia+wales+wikimedia+GFDL+foundation+law+freedom&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us which is not only an interesting read but also contains sources that can be used for further investigation; and I know there are some Harvard studies. WAS 4.250 20:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Dear Mr. Jimbo Wales,
An AFD on my Bio Rajkumar Kanagasingam is brought only to distract the offences at wikipedia after stealing my e-mail address and thereafter my wiki passwords by Netmonger and his/her group and nothing else. How this user can bring this AFD before he clears himself from the offences which is now under investigation under an Administrator’s supervision and the details are here.Rajkumar Kanagasingam 04:51, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Hey, I noticed you recently redeleted this archive, saying not to restore it unless asked. My guess is it was deleted due to trouble with HOTR (I am unfamiliar with that stuation other then basic information), so would it then be okay to restore the archive, minus section 92?--Wizardman 02:49, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes! I am trying to be as courteous as possible with someone who I would like to walk away with dignity... with the emphasis here on "walk away". Let's be kind to him so he can be shut of us. :) --Jimbo Wales 09:46, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
I've just written to Linden Lab in the following terms (slightly edited):
Perhaps nothing will come of my inquiry, which will be one of many received by Linden Lab on all sorts of topics, but I can imagine more situations in future where there will be copyright issues about user-created content involving snapshots taken in-world within Second Life or other such virtual realities, so I thought I'd at least draw the issue to your attention. I'm baffled by the intellectual property regime of Second Life, but I'm often baffled these days. Metamagician3000 02:21, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Main_Page_alternative_(Next_DYK)&action=purge
Follow the above link. Besides the discussion tab of this page you will find article. I would wish to move it under the main page as a sub page because it is not an article. One more thing, who is essjay. Sushant gupta 09:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I know this isn't much...but I just wanted to say thank you for creating Wikipedia. Being an editor actually helped me out of my depression, and I have gotten a decent number of people hooked on it as well. I know you probably get thanked a lot...but I just wanted you to know how much I appriciate Wikipedia. It is one of the most valuable resources out there. *hugs* Have a wonderful day!
Saber girl08 11:28, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for clarifying policy. People have been misapplying it for a long time, to the detriment of the project. Oversimplying wasn't helping.
In fact, that's one of the biggest problems in the intellectual arena: the attempt to boil things down to their essence (prematurely). Somethings are just plain complicated.
In particular, I hope this clarification will help our articles on scientific topics which touch on controversies over public policy. I would like to see Wikipedia provide neutral treatments of all points which have a significant degree of minority disagreement. I'm not sure how large a "minority" has to be to merit inclusion, though. Is a single peer-reviewed scientific paper enough? In some cases, perhaps not, but even if the minority is large enough to be included we must make sure not to make it appear larger than it is, any more than we should make the majority appear larger than it is. Guidelines for how to do this will help. --Uncle Ed 16:01, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Sorting out WP:RS etc. Putting everything into Attribution made the talk pages unworkable besides anything else. BTW it kind of isn't obvious that nofollow is working at all, going loads of little comments about the place (e.g. Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam/2007_Archive_Mar#No_follow.3F_No_problem) so some better way would be good sometime. I started User:BozMo/whitelist but ran out of energy. --BozMo talk 15:58, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
On WP:V and WP:A you made two distinct edits [7] and [8]. It is not clear to me that there has ever been a consensus on WP:A, as shown in its archive talk pages and those of WP:V, so I prefer your first edit to your second. Indeed the tone of "canonical" WP:A seems to be moving towards "don't make any statement unless you attribute it" when the original sense of WP:V was "only include statements which are accurate and are capable of being fact-checked". It is the latter which seems to be the general practice of most editors and was the consensus when WP:V was first labeled as policy.[9] --Henrygb 01:57, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo Wales. There is nothing big going on, but I would like to know the difference between and ban and a block. Thanks, PikminloverMeep! € 23:02, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Greetings. For the past few weeks, I have suddenly been in some kind of strange personal dispute with User:Guettarda. I think it stems from his misunderstanding, but it could be also that because of my inexperience here, I misworded something that he rightly sees as a personal attack. Unfortunately for me, he has or had many allies, and I'm having trouble getting objective feedback. For instance, I asked User:SlimVirgin for some advice, but either because she is very busy or because she doesn't view my request in good faith, hasn't responded. Another admin I know has had their own disputes with Guettarda and so I doubt that admin could help. The only other editors I know are otherwise very busy in their own mediation disputes. Can you please point me in the direction of an admin who is completely neutral and has no significant ties with User:FeloniousMonk or with User:Guettarda? --Otheus 23:03, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Trampton 00:36, 21 March 2007 (UTC).
Trampton has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding ((subst:Smile)) to their talk page with a friendly message.
Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. re [11]. This post was rather unbecoming, and quite disappointing. Seems a vio of AGF as well. Feel free to block me if you wish, but Wikipedia should not be held hostage to the whims of its primary personage. •Jim62sch• 19:46, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I am sorry but I seem to have badly misunderstood something. Guetterda is saying that I am claiming something that I am not. I don't know where the confusion is, exactly, or I would try to correct it.--Jimbo Wales 20:00, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Jimbo, I think the issue here is a disconnect in communication: it's quite possible that we're all talking past each other. Nonetheless, the fact that a number of experienced editors have noticed at least the perception of a seemingly out-of-process change to an article, should be cause for concern: who knows what newbies or the folks gunning for Wikipedia might think (I can guess, but I won't). I've read AnonEMouse's proposed change and it seems reasonable to me. The lawsuit is as much of value as is anything else Langan has been involved in, and removing it just seems like either giving in to the objections of FNMF (who may be associated with Langan in some way -- linguistic forensics seems to lead in that direction, as does the likely meaning of the acronym FNMF), or else a form of censorship (albeit likely unintended) that can only serve to hamper our efforts to write articles about living persons.
As for Guettarda, I cannot speak for him, but I understand the frustration. On the positive side, I'm pretty sure we can all get past this as we all care deeply about Wikipedia and want it to succeed. Cheers. •Jim62sch• 20:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
As I see no reference to any of that stuff which is not heavily original research, I think that all of it should be omitted. Wikipedia is not the right place for people to be doing original historical research. Has there been a book about this? A magazine article? A newspaper article? Or are we simply picking up on some web fight and lawsuit of very dubious importance and trying to do original historical analysis on what it was all about and how important it is?--Jimbo Wales 04:01, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Peace for you, I come in peace, can you please delete Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy article and block it, please. All for good and peace of the world, the world will be thankful of you.--Towaru 08:40, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Transmigration program they didn't like someone mentioning that six million settlers had been relocated under the government scheme, so the remove that detail and say its 2.5 million, not that they bothered to access any reference to support their claim; they just felt 2.5 looked better than 6. I provide a reliable study and update the figure to the study's 6.27 million; the group again remove the figure.
I add references showing the claim that the Indonesian Transmigration program ended in 2001 was not correct, so they remove that or wish to ignore it. I provide multiple studies talking about transmigration in social terms, these sources also get removed.
Every minority subject is squashed by Wikipedia's most editors principle; the general community refuse to edit a subject they do not know about - refuse to read the sources - allow the references and citations to be removed. Just because Indonesia can afford to have a half dozen editors keeping Wikipedia in line; Wikipedia is not Open Source, that would allow input.
Have you seen Special:Contributions/Hu12? multiple edits per minute, looks more like a BOT, do you think he/it cared that it was deleting references? Has Merbabu found another tool to to keep information about Indonesia hidden? 58.107.15.245 12:28, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
In light of recent dicussions on this page, you might be interested in the thread forming here [15] Giano 13:26, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I have an idea to utilize the Wikipedia framework in a new way. If it would be possible to setup a more private form of correspondence, I'd be more than happy to share it with you. --D 18:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Hello. I was involved with Cavic (talk · contribs) on the Dennis Johnson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) article and his commons:Image:Dennis_Johnson_Lipofsky.jpg. The problem is he seemingly wants the watermark on the image which is a violation of our Image use policy, specifically where it states "Also, user-created images may not be watermarked, distorted, have any credits in the image itself or anything else that would hamper their free use, unless, of course, the image is intended to demonstrate watermarking, distortion etc. and is used in the related article. All photo credit should be in a summary on the image description page." Further, he seemingly wants image attribution to him and his website in a caption underneath the image on the article, which it seems there isn't a policy or guideline covering this. WP:CAPTION isn't a policy or guideline and doesn't cover this topic either. Through talking with several others, it seems at most, stating something of "Image by <Name>" would be the consensus, but not then linking to an external website (as was part of the issue in the revert/edit war on the article). However, I do not believe image attribution of any kind should be allowed in a caption or on the article, as attribution is clearly acceptable on the image description page. We don't attribute article authors on the article page, and we seem to be doing just fine with that, so why are images so special? Further, it seems to me that many are trying to bend over backwards and perhaps ignore a policy to allow the watermark on the image in defiance of the policy. Some are claiming that removing the watermark and/or copyright terms from the image aren't acceptable under the GFDL license. There was minimal discussion on the issue of caption attribution at the pump/policy, but no resolution or consensus. My preference for resolution is to remove the watermark from the image and the caption from the article page. If Cavic finds this use unacceptable, I would permit the deletion of the image, despite the fact he had licensed the image under the GFDL and revoking isn't really possible. The image on commons and the article are currently fully protected to stop the revert/edit wars until this matter can be solved. (I apologize for the lengthy background section, especially if you knew all this).
This leads me to why I am writing to you: I was told on IRC in the #wikimedia-commons channel several weeks ago that this was being handled at the "foundation level." The problem is there is little transparency as to if this is still being worked, if the matter has been resolved, or even if it really is being handled at all (I don't doubt that it was, since "dannyisme" was in the channel and I believe that is a foundation person). If you could at least let me know if this is still an ongoing issue with the foundation, that would be great. Also, if you could perhaps say when a resolution is expected (even vaguely, like "months" would be better than no information), and perhaps leave a note on the article talk page about the issue, that would be much appreciated. If the matter is resolved, then producing the results (a statement by you) and un-protecting the image/article would be needed. Thank you for your time. --MECU≈talk 17:02, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
I am unaware of any discussion of this at the foundation level. If the image is a violation of image policy, it should be deleted. Simple as that. I see no reason for the foundation to be involved in any way.--Jimbo Wales 11:13, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I assume you are the only one authorized to use Wikipedia:Office Actions now, since Danny resigned. As such, I removed him from that pagerevert. You may want to appoint someone else there, unless Danny still retains the Office. Perhaps Brad? Prodego talk 20:28, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Does Mr. Wales have any comments on potential profitability gained through the copying of wikipedia articles on www.answers.com ? So far, there has been no comment on a possibility of whether or not wikipedia.com gains a portion of the ad revenue generated through answers.com which essentially contains wikipedia articles but receive ad revenue for its traffic. Obviously I have no proof of this, but it is theoretically possible that Mr. Wales does not wish to directly make wikipedia profitable but could theoretically receive revenues through a secondary website as not to damage wikipedia's image of non-profit. So far, this has not really been talked about, so I was wondering if Mr. Wales has any comment on this issue, and even rather or not, this is even a relevant issue at all. Active contributor 01:34, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd
Hello sir,
Is this link Wikipedia related. Thanks Sushant gupta 08:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
George Lucas shooting the original Star Wars film in 1976...What do you think George??? I didnt see the fair use thing before,...but go ahead and remove it again after I just rechecked to see it after scrolling down, I will fully comply with the legal policy until it changes. However, I now have a mind to start removing all Kenner images on wikipedia...screw them then if we cant use an advertising image from them, then its time to start removing all publicity and images of their products from wikipedia, someone might actually take an interest in their product or buy it if they see it. If there is this lock tight image policy, then its time to just remove these images of peoples' movies and products so wikipedia users dont come into contact with them, these movie or product images can all be considered advertising, unpaid advertising. I think its time for the unpaid advertising to stop. Unless the fair use image policy changes to allow some more leeway I see no reason to give companies and manufacturers free advertising of their images and products on wikipedia. Someone might see the image of Jabba I pasted up and rent "Return of the Jedi" this weekend for instance. I didn't use the image of Jabba to advertise for Kenner or for the Star Wars movies, but I really think they should actually pay me for including the image of Jabba on wikipedia at all! Wikipedia is currently in a position as an unpaid advertiser in many cases, although the intent isn't usually to advertise, many times that is a secondary side-effect, and I think those with financial interests behind some of these images should lighten up a little and show some appreciation for the free distribution of their images. Thats the least they can do besides actually paying wikipedia for the distribution of those images on a heavily used internet site. (I'm not implying in any way Lucas or Kenner is behind the removal of my Jabba image or that they are the ones that lobby for a tight image use policy, it was merely a wikipedia editor steadfastly following the legal policy, and of course he should follow that policy unless it changes somewhat, and mere coincidence that it is after I used a star wars image that I have brought up this issue) Wikipedia can survive with digital photos taken from users until the image policy loosens up a little, until then thousands of movies and products will suffer a little as people won't see them so much. Its time to lobby for the allowance of fair use images on talk pages if people wish to use them from time to time. An editor that begins a marketting campaign across wikipedia for a specific product or movie though should be chastised. But to use a variety of images from varying sources on talk pages to demonstrate ones point or add some color now and again I think is reasonable. Talk pages can get really dreary. Its nice sometimes to see an image or two to liven them up for those that use the talk pages. I'm not exactly trying to defend my specific metaphorical use of the jabba image, but I am defending the right of an editor to use a fair use image to demonstrate a point they have made on a talk page, and that image may not be directly associated with the article, in fact its rare one would even want to use an image related exactly directly to the article on its talk page, it may only relate to something in ones edit on the talk page and just be indirectly associated to the actual article. CrystalizedAngels 11:17, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I didnt say "add color". I said "liven up". Meaning to "add interest" to an otherwise monotonous page. I think the addition of an image or two to an otherwise very very long talk page can be worthwhile on occasion. It can even help me find my place on a ridiculously long talk page, of where I was editing at. But, make no mistake, its something I rarely do, in hundreds of talk page additions I have added perhaps 2 or 3 images, but its something I think can be OK on occasion. Anyways I understand the reasoning behind the fair use image thing, I'm just saying I think that it should in actuality be the other way around with a bunch of these images used on wikipedia, instead of all this worry about using someones' image or movie/product picture, they should be begging wikipedia to use more of their images. Thats all I'm saying.CrystalizedAngels 14:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Please see my comment here. I don't know whether you'll agree with it or whether you'll think I go too far, but either way it deals with an important issue that you obviously have a keen interest in. I see no one else making quite this point. Metamagician3000 23:54, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi, a humble question from me which seems to vex "Featured Articles" editors, as they call themselves. Is it Wikipedia policy or not to link day-month-year (esp. birthdates and date of decease) combinations in order that users can view the date format in their chosen style when viewing the article?
I have a quote from Tony1 in response to a fellow editor (Mattisse), who is part of the Featured Article editing fraternity. Quote:
I must admit to being at a loss to understand the editors' dogged reluctance to link day-month-year combinations. Further, there is widespread de-linking of dates in articles being carried out in campaign style, it seems.
For me, this all came about when an article I contribute to, Hoagy Carmichael, was modified in this way (example diff). Having thoroughly studied the MoS, I could find no reason for this "user preference format destruction", for want of better words. I can only think that there has been a large-scale difference of opinion amongst the Featured Article editors regarding linking in articles. I have obtained a valued opinion from an admin of my acquaintance, which leans towards this type of linking being in line with MoS, and therefore allowable.
Your opinion would be appreciated, if it is within your remit. Thanks. Refsworldlee(chew-fat)(eds) 00:30, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I think the major lessons that have come out of this for the Foundation are:
Why would anyone have their credentials verified unless they were going to use them to railroad other editors? Just last night someone tried to revert my edits to English Reformation because he is a parish priest and I have no identifying information on my userpage. This encyclopedia, as I am sure you are well aware, is largely written by students and amateur enthusiasts. If they feel made to be inferior, they will leave, and Wikipedia will collapse. All of these policies that have been proposed has an unwritten implication that having your credentials verified will allow you to assert your "authority". If someone is really reading an encyclopedia because it was written by graduates, they can go to Citizendium. We insist on references. I cite almost everything I write and where I don't, I provide sources whenever challenged. Whatever qualifications I may or may not have thus does not matter and should not matter. Any step towards a Citizendium style hierarchy will end in disaster. I hope the community's resounding rejection to these proposals will swiftly bring an end to any further steps. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't think there is any resounding rejection! I think a few people are completely hysterical about proposals which have not been made. I think voluntary credential verification is going ahead promptly. As with many things in Wikipedia, if you don't want to do it, don't do it. But don't get in the way of good people trying to do something useful, either.--Jimbo Wales 02:48, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I think the reason Mr. Wales is referring to "hysteria" is that the majority of the opposition is in opposition to something that isn't actually being proposed. Namely, nobody is proposing that "I have a Ph.D. nyah nyah" will replace citing of reliable sources and rational debate; obviously it can't as a fair number of editors in fact do have Ph.Ds (at least, I think so, given they are telling the truth!). Nonetheless, when I read through all the comments, many people seem to think this is what is being proposed. Thus, I think Mr. Wales' interpretation is on the mark. In my honest opinion, the confusion is due to the fact that the proposal is really quite mild...in fact, some may even consider it ineffectual to address the "real issues" (whose existence is not yet firmly established).
As far as I understand it, the proposal is meant to address certain, perhaps very uncommon (but still occurring) situations when there is an extensive debate requiring some level of expertise in judging which sources are more reliable, standard, etc., or when some person, group, or organization is notable. Additionally, when there is already rational debate going on, people are generally willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt when s/he says in his/her extensive professional experience such-and-such is true. Mr. Wales seems to be proposing that in those cases, we should verify that that person does in fact have such experience, when it is possible to do so. This is why as I said, some may consider this ineffectual. Generally, people take such comments with a grain of salt, and based on the editor's history, determine whether this person does in fact appear to be such an expert. Such determinations are made daily. The majority of times, probably, such determinations are easy to make correctly. So it seems likely to me that very little will change if this proposal is implemented.
On the other hand, it seems to me that there is a definite PR advantage. The person who only knows about Wikipedia from the newspapers will learn of this policy and feel it is more reliable as a result. In the end of course, we really have no good idea as to the reliability of Wikipedia before or after such a policy, nor really how it compares to other resources (I am aware of the couple studies comparing to Wikipedia to say, Britannica, but I'm skeptical of the methodologies not to mention the validity of comparing apples and oranges). --C S (Talk) 05:30, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
---
"Hysterical" sounds about right to me. And User:C S above provides about the right explanation in saying that "the majority of the opposition is in opposition to something that isn't actually being proposed." If I look again at the proposal, I find: "This policy will be coupled with a policy of gentle (or firm) discouragement for people to make claims like those that EssJay made, unless they are willing to back them up." There you have it. As User:C S says, I see no proposal that the editor's credentials would be given any weight at all in deciding whether the editor can insert credential bias to override neutral point of view. So there is no good reason for the "hysteria" or "sincere and severe concerns" or whatever we want to call the opposition to this proposal. This proposal looks like an effective step forward in dealing with our situation here. Nevertheless, we as a community have a lot of work to do in defining in clear and consistent policy text what NPOV means operationally in "representing fairly and without bias all significant views that have been published by a reliable source." But as User:C S says, that work cannot be addressed in the very limited scope of this proposal. --Rednblu 08:47, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
So, would someone like to clarify to me why people would verify their credentials? Because someone in apparent opposition to me said "Additionally, when there is already rational debate going on, people are generally willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt when s/he says in his/her extensive professional experience such-and-such is true. Mr. Wales seems to be proposing that in those cases, we should verify that that person does in fact have such experience, when it is possible to do so" which seems strangely like saying because people are already asserting their offline authority over edits, and we are merely giving them the means with which to officially do so. It seems to me that credential flashing needs to be discouraged rather than enshrined in policy.
Additionally, these proposals make the assumption that people who hold such credentials are more objective than those who do not. This is not necessarily true. If this credential verification idea goes through, Kurt Wise is perfectly capable of coming to Wikipedia and setting himself up as an expert on evolution, as he holds a Phd in paleontology from Harvard. However, he also believes that the Earth is ten thousand years old. People would, as previously mentioned, defer to him in such matters, but the question is, should they? Similarly with David Irving; he has written thirty books on history but should we trust his opinion on Hitler? People like that are the reason we insist in citations, not qualifications. I really cannot not see what benefit this policy will bring to Wikipedia other than to set divisions between us and appease the media, all of whom use us to abuse us anyway. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 09:32, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
If I have the vaguest idea what "no original research" and "must be attributable to a reliable source" are driving at, then credentials here (attached to usernames) are irrelevant: if you are indeed a credentialed expert and have something to say on a subject, say it elsewhere, in what can be cited as a "reliable source", and then cite that source when saying it here. Your name and credentials can be part of the content quoted here from the reliable source; they should not be something you wave around in any other context. Nothing in the encyclopedic content should be based upon anyone's say-so here, no matter what credentials they claim. Am I anywhere even vaguely close to the underlying concept?
This shouldn't even be restricted to academic credentials -- though of all people in the world, degreed academics should know how to cite sources and not base things on "Well, *I* say so" -- but should extend to any claim of special knowledge or expertise. You interviewed Dr. Sir Lord World-Renowned, PhD x 12, and he said THAT? Very nice; where did you get this interview published, so you can cite it as saying so? Hey, I've started the fire, by traditional means, thousands of times over my life, and let me tell you, the best way to do it is -- hold on, I'd better cite Firelighters' Guidebook for this....
What I've done, whom I've met, what they told me, what I've learned over my lifetime, and what I've got the paperwork to prove I know -- and you too, bub -- are all wonderful things to paste across our userpages.... but when it comes to putting it in articles, you and I had better be able to cite a reliable source in support, and our own say-so ON-WIKI won't cut it. Do I repeat myself? Very well, I repeat myself. I am a small entry on this page; I contain a single idea. (Walt Whitman fans, please wince in unison.) -- Ben TALK/HIST 15:48, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Asking people to verify their claims is a reasonable request. Experience outside the so-called Wikipedia community can be just as informative and to most reasonable people far more informative of a person's capacity to compose text in a particular subject area. If usernames are intended to establish a wikireputation, wikipedia alreay has a de facto system of credentialling, and the debate seems primarily focused on whether or not to recognize any credential other than wikipedia edit history and social cues related to community standing here.
That said, let's ask Mr. Wales to verify his claim that "good people" are advancing the proposal and that those who oppose it are "hysterical". Since he can bring no signed order from God (not a minor god-king, but the actual co-creator of the known universe) that says the people advancing this proposal are "good" let's just say "people" are advancing the proposal. The problem is that Wales is attempting to slip in another de facto set of credentials based on Wales' ostensible authority to declare people either "good" or "hysterical." This time it's not college degrees, it's moral posture. Such characterizations -- even in the affirmative such as referring to one's allies as "good people" (a widely used mob moniker, I might add) is an ad hominum attack that implies the respondant is unqualified to challenge the ideas of "good people" because the respondant is morally inferior. We've seen this enough from you, Jimbo. You slither around the world characterizing anyone involved with your project who happens to be on your good side at the moment as "good" while systematically demeaning your critics. When you do apologize, it seems more an attempt to silence criticism than to acknowledge and account for error.
Just one question -- why are you still here, Jimbo Wales. You're not wanted here. It will take several years for some to realize how they are caught in the web of your flawed ideology writ as Wikipedia, but your immediate exit would start things rolling. Instead of cramming another of your wild ideas down the throats of people already choking on your misguided desire to craft the world in your own image, why don't you just butt out.
Bye now.
Ornizo 11:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Ornizo 11:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I just felt like saying hello to the man who started it all. Thanks for Wikipedia and all that.--SUIT양복 05:28, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Me too; hi! TomasBat (@)(Contributions)(Sign!) 20:46, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Yeah me too! I hope to see you at the meetup in Adelaide :) Darkcraft 08:54, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
The RFA process here on Wikipedia is very pethitic. Again and again same 6 questions (3 compulsory and 3 optional) are asked from every user. Do you know what I was planning to do. First I thought that I will be copying the answers from the page of any user who has successfully becamed the admin. And then I would have also been simply becamed the administrator. But don't worry, I am not a Vandal, rather I want to make Wikipedia and associated media a feature. I wish I could make it my career. The only thing I wish to convey to you is that the questions asked for the nomination should be different. And I noticed many such WP:RFA pages of many admins. Some of them were alike. Thanks Sushant gupta 13:32, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
NBC Nightly news tonight has coverage of the wikipedia reliability issues. Web link here Abecedare 22:33, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
We have to give licencing for images... but doesn't Wikipedia fit under educational? So we can take copyrighted stuff... right? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by W1k13rh3nry (talk • contribs).
Jimbo, and Jimbo page-watchers, please join the discussion regarding the Wikipedia:Attribution proposal. Marskell 09:14, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo. Since you acted earlier at Christopher Michael Langan in response to FNMF's alert about potential libel, I thought I would notify you that FeloniousMonk, the administrator who originally inserted the lawsuit section, and who, after it was removed, re-inserted it on the grounds that its removal was a "pov whitewashing of well-sourced events", has now blocked FNMF for 48 hours. For discussion, see here and here. FeloniousMonk was previously admonished by the ArbCom not to use his administrative tools in content disputes in which he is involved, and the administrator who declined FNMF's unblock request, JzG, had also argued for the lawsuit's inclusion (in part so that it could illustrate, in his words, "the obsessive behaviour to which [Langan] is stated to be prone"), and has apparently even been in contact with Mega Society members. Input from you or an uninvolved administrator would be very welcome. Best regards, Tim Smith 16:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
To clarify Tim's post, he is conflating actions which occurred well over a month apart. Whether FMNF had valid concerns about the case (I don't believe so, but that's another issue), he is doing exactly what the arbcomm case said qualifies as disallowed activities. Since FMNF chose to ignore warnings posted 3 days ago, and has engaged in personal attacks, a block is in keeping with the arbcomm decision. Guettarda 17:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
The Wikipedia:Ignore all credentials proposal seems to be failing to develop a consensus. Your name is being used to block closing it out based on a comment you made very early on, as evidence that you may be overriding the discussion. If you could please review the discussion and clarify this, and possibly offer additional comments, we would be grateful. Mangoe 17:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Dear Mr Wales,
I'm writing to notify you of a situation which has developed in the entry on Christopher Michael Langan. I and others consider that material in the entry is potentially libelous. Perhaps the chances are this situation will not develop into an actually litigious one, but I thought it best that you were at least apprised of the facts of the situation, in case you wished to intervene to minimise Wikipedia's exposure to this problem.
Mr Langan is of minor note: a "high-IQ" auto-didact who worked for 20 years as a bouncer and has developed some ideas of his own about the relation between mind and reality which he considers to be original and important. The grounds on which his notability is finally established, warranting an entry in Wikipedia, is, however, more likely the fact that he became the object of interest of various articles and television segments, and more particularly the subject of a television program directed by Oscar winner Errol Morris.
Mr Langan considers his ideas to be important in potentially bridging the gap between evolutionary scientists and proponents of intelligent design. He became a fellow of an intelligent design society, gave a paper at an intelligent design conference, and contributed a chapter to a book of papers largely concerning intelligent design. For all that, he continues to deny that his theories amount to intelligent design, on the grounds that his theory is not a scientific theory, and as such is not susceptible to scientific verification or falsification. Whereas, of course, intelligent design proponents explicitly seek to prove their ideas scientifically. I, for one, do not consider him a proponent of intelligent design, at most a fellow traveller, though even this is doubtful.
For various reasons, Mr Langan has incurred the ire of others. These reasons include: his association with proponents of intelligent design (which incurs the wrath of those who feel intelligent design is a threat to science); his own ideas (which some people judge to be incomprehensible or pseudo-science, and hence unworthy of inclusion in an encyclopaedia); and his claims regarding his IQ (which annoys some people who doubt the validity of such high-end testing). Additionally, Mr Langan has made himself unpopular by editing his own entry under a pseudonym (Asmodeus), and refusing to finally identify that the operator of the pseudonym is in fact Mr Langan. His wife also edits, under the name DrL. Both are now banned from editing the entry on Mr Langan (for reasons I am not convinced are sound, but that is neither here nor there). It is my opinion that because of the feelings generated by all this, a group of editors is behaving very poorly in relation to this entry.
The potential libel, however, does not concern any of this, but rather a lawsuit between Mr Langan and a high-IQ society. The lawsuit was uncontested by Mr Langan, and thus only one side of the evidence was presented in court. Nevertheless Mr Langan argues that there are indeed two sides, and that the insistence on portraying one side of the dispute without portraying the other is potentially libelous. He has been supported in this assertion by at least his wife, DrL, by the user Sheerfirepower, and by myself. He has requested that the lawsuit not be included at all in the entry, on the grounds that including this section is libelous. This is supported by the above users. These requests have been ignored and ridiculed. The court record has been treated as a statement of fact with no regard to the reality that it reflects one side of the evidence. Many failures to apply the official policy on living persons have occurred.
It is my opinion that the circumstances of the lawsuit resemble very closely that given as an example in the policy on biographies of living persons concerning a "messy divorce." The dispute was indeed a matter of a divorce between two groups of people fighting over the spoils of a high-IQ society. The dispute is not notable or important in any way. It is being included in the entry for no reason other than to attack the credibility of Mr Langan. It is possible, although I do not know this, that some of the editors involved in the entry are parties to the other side of Mr Langan's legal situation. I strongly believe there are no grounds for including the legal dispute in the entry on Langan.
I feel compelled to add that I do not have any association with Mr Langan, do not know him, am not a proponent of his ideas, nor a proponent of intelligent design. I know of him through Mr Morris's television program.
Mr Langan's request that the section be omitted, and his account of the circumstances of the legal dispute, occurs here.
My arguments that inclusion of this section, and the editing of this entry generally, has violated official policy regarding the biographies of living persons, are presented here.
And finally, a summary of the events, listing more of the relevant diffs (including the above two) has been presented at the Biographies of Living Persons Noticeboard here.
I hope this is of interest or use to you, and that it is taken in the spirit in which it is intended, that is, as an expression of concern, both for Mr Langan and for Wikipedia. Thankyou for taking the time to read this. FNMF 07:59, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Thankyou for taking the time to consider the matters raised above, and thankyou for your clarity and decisiveness in relation to these matters. FNMF 12:59, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I also feel compelled to inform you that the immediate response of the editors to your decision was to delete all the references the article contained which were sourced from Langan's website, hosted from the Megafoundation which he founded. See the deletion here. The argument was that because the lawsuit must be removed, therefore all references to Langan's own association must be removed. I am unable to explain their logic any further. The article itself contains no references to the foundation. The effect is to delete the supporting evidence from the general information contained in the article. The insistence on this deletion is vindictive. Apologies for burdening you with this, but thought it may be of interest as it is a direct consequence of your own, entirely justified, edit. FNMF 14:06, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Per this comment, I take it that you are saying that we must remove everything drawn from primary sources? And don't you think that such a radical redefinition of OR should be taken up at WT:ATT first? Guettarda 15:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Dear Mr Wales, just wanted to reiterate that your intervention was clear and decisive, and to inform you that the dispute which followed in the wake of your intervention is ongoing. A summary was made here. Thanks again. FNMF 04:07, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
For an account of what I believe are important policy issues arising from the problems with the Christopher Michael Langan entry, see here. FNMF 03:09, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
If you think you should still be unilaterally overriding consensual changes of policy, perhaps its time that Wikipedia and yourself parted company, as you are showing the classic signs of failing to understand that a child is growing up. Wikipedia is now run by a foundation, and foundations are not supposed to be personal playthings. I don't see much sign that you are prepared to accept limitations on your self-conferred arbitary powers, so the best thing you can do for Wikipedia is now to move on and hand over the reins to new leaders who won't regard themselves as god-creators with unlimited powers. Osomec 15:45, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Please read my messages on the mailing list to better understand what I believe. I suspect you will be pleasantly surprised.--Jimbo Wales 17:52, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
But then, as Osomec exhibits so well, there is a vast difference between what one believes and what by their presence they induce others to perceive. C.m.jones 22:46, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
I am exceedingly appreciative of the contributions of leadership and common sense that Jimbo still donates here. We would be in far worse shape without it. 150.203.2.85 00:04, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- Actually I don't, but that would be applying is own logic to his input. The fact is that long term editors, people like Tannin and others who have contributed quality content for years to this project and who have been victimized by neo-rednecks like Wik and his helpers, are very qualified to talk about Wikipedia's weaknesses. Look at the Transmigration Program article, it is a joke. I just added a Reference link about the current Manpower & Transmigration Minister - - of a program the Wikipedia article says ended in 2001. It and probably a dozen other articles related to Indonesia have become the private property of a group who use Wikipedia to push their political bias; certainly I have used Wikipedia for six years as a PUBLISHING tool to put commonly mis-understood facts into the open. I edited the Kangaroo article hoping Americans would stop boycotting Australia for using kangaroo meat - I did not trick people with lies, I put the truth in front of them that the Roos being culled were not the same ones that were endangered. The truth helps others. But people who promote propaganda as 'facts' are not helping anyone but themselves. The Wikipedia community should at least allow publishing of all the reasonably verifiable facts.58.107.15.245 14:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Can wikinews have a quote for this story? Personally I believe that Wikipedia should be a starting point for research, high-school kids should be allowed to cite it, but at university level you should be following the references and citing them. --Brianmc 09:54, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi Jimbo Wales. Now, there is a little matter which I would like to have it improved. Many users want your signature in there sign-books (even I do), but I am not very sure if you would be willing to sign all those sign-books; so, I come with a proposal. There is this transclusion sub-page called Universal Autographs, where users can post there autographs and share it with all who have got the transclusion code on there sign-book. So, if you were to sign there, then you would, in a way, be signing lots of sign-books in just 1 shot!
—Jimbo Wales 13:08, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
|
---|
So, what do say?
--TomasBat (@)(Sign) 00:05, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, that doesn´t sound very traditional. The user should sign his name, not have it copied.
--TomasBat (@)(Sign) 20:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, in a way yes, because the user agrees to make his autograph available to all when signing in the transclusion; the user signs lots of them in one shot... --TomasBat (@)(Sign) 02:21, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
In the case of your signature yes, because you are agreeing with sharing your signature; but Jimbo Wales is not telling me that I can copy his signature... I suggest that either he signs Universal Autographs or that he himself states below that I can copy his signature, of which either option will certainly take less than a minuite...
(As for my signature, I just changed the font, I didn´t use any big tags) --TomasBat (@)(Sign) 00:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
You mean like this?: TomasBat (@)(Sign)
Anyways, Jimbo Wales I await an answer... If you sign, it will certainly take less than a minuite... TomasBat (@)(Sign) 20:37, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, lets make it simple, Jimmy Wales, all you have to do is type the letter a right below this message if you give me permission to copy your signature to Universal Autographs; the procedure is extremely simple and it will certainly take less than 1/2 a minute, this way you will use up extremely little time and make many users happy... TomasBat (@)(Sign) 01:42, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
But, ive got an idea which could be a logical solution to this situation: If Jimmy Wales does not reply before this post is archived, then I will take his silence s a yes, I am willing to let my signature be copied into Universal Autographs; but if he does reply before this post is archived stating that he does not give me permission to copy his sinature to Universal Autographs, then, of couse, I will take his answer as a no.
This way, if Jimmy Wales hasnt got any problems with letting me copy his signature to Universal Autographs but just is too busy to respond, then he auctually can respond without wasting any time! And if he has got problems with letting me copy his signature to Universal Autographs, then he can reply stating so if he is so concerned.
Now, I will stop posting here unless someone else makes a comment and I feel the need to respond to that comment.
Happy editing... TomasBat (@)(Contributions)(Sign!) 20:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Could you please unblock 202.76.162.34 now? I don't want to create an account under that address. And could you please delete the article Multimedia Applications Development Environment? 124.180.66.13 10:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Just unblock 202.76.162.34 right now! Gninnalbleumas8hi 01:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Hello Mr Wales, I know you are a busy man, but I can't help wondering what you think of my short section "On Wikipedia," located on my user page. All the best. FNMF 00:32, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
That page serves no encyclopedic purpose. I think it's inhumane to maintain it and would urge you to use your execute ability to delete it.--CSTAR 20:09, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Hello, Mr. Wales.
Wikipedia administrator FeloniousMonk, who is unquestionably guilty of serial defamation and obsessively controlling the article Christopher Michael Langan (along with fellows and sympathizers of "Wikiproject Intelligent Design" including jim62sch, Guettarda, KillerChihuahua, Arthur Rubin, ScienceApologist, and a constant stream of trolls and single-purpose attack accounts), has just further abused his/her sysop powers to issue a retaliatory block against FNMF, the person who most recently blew the whistle on him here. The stated reason for the block is that FNMF's editing patterns are allegedly similar to mine, which of course comes down to a suspicion that he (she?) is identical or at least personally known to me, and/or that I am prompting him in some way.
Accordingly, I hereby inform all concerned that to the best of my knowledge, FNMF is not connected to me in any way. Indeed, a checkuser was already run on FNMF, and his location is already known to be geographically uncorrelated with mine. I don't know him or even know what his initials stand for, and as nearly as I can tell, there is no reasonable, legitimate suspicion that he is, or is related, to me or to the subject of the biography article that he has been constructively editing. I do, however, know that his corrections to the article have been almost 100% accurate, and that the reversions made by his administrative opponents have been almost 100% erroneous. This leads me to believe that what we have here is simply a tedious continuation of the malicious behavior on the part of certain wayward sysops which you recently responsibly interdicted. (Thank you for your intercession.)
This is an old story for FeloniousMonk, who has long been a liability and an embarrassment to Wikipedia. I happen to be attuned to this situation because FeloniousMonk and his meatpuppet brigade - since "meatpuppet" is one of their own most cherished epithets, I'm sure they won't mind wearing it themselves - are largely responsible for snookering the Arbitration Committee into banning me indefinitely from the CML article even though I have no significant history of editing that article. (Of the two or three minor and entirely justifiable edits that I made to correct errors and improve intelligibility, the most recent occurred almost half a year before the ban was issued.)
This, of course, raises a question: given that FeloniousMonk has a long and colorful history of manipulatively abusing his sysop powers in order to prevail in personal, editorial, and procedural disputes, and also to exact sweet revenge on those who dare to challenge his various abuses, why is he still tolerated here as an administrator, and why is his word preferred with such blatant prejudice over those of his victims? It simply fails to make sense, given that Wikipedia is actively promoted for its supposed neutrality, reliability, and compassion.
For my own part, I'm trying to be as understanding as possible about this. Indeed, I've been angelically tolerant of it for almost nine months now. But as any neutral observer can plainly see, the Wikipedia sysops who have been specializing in this article are among the very worst elements ever to endanger the reputation and future wellbeing of the Wikipedia Project. Unfortunately, nobody seems to want to do anything about them. This is an intolerable and therefore unstable situation.
Accordingly, I would respectfully ask that you instruct FeloniousMonk to lift his abusive block against FNMF and stop persecuting better and more responsible editors than himself, and if at all possible, to pry this ill-intentioned administrative troll and his cohorts from the article in question and shoo them permanently away from it. As I hope you'll agree, letting this kind of recidivist policy violator retain special powers to anonymously censor honest editors and torment Wikipedia biography subjects reflects poorly on the entire Project, and could ultimately cause it to be subjected to unwelcome and exacting forms of scrutiny.
Thank you and best wishes, Asmodeus 02:54, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
In the 2 April 2007 issue of Time Magazine, you made a comment:
"We're looking at software tools that will allow the community to quarantine edits from people we don't know. No one in the Wikipedia community would write that Sinbad is dead [as happened on March 15] and leave it up there. That would be a bannable offense - no question"
This probably isn't the place to post this, but last evening I was perusing material on the Web about copper refining, and looked to see if Wikipedia had an article on "Electrowinning."
Indeed it does, but unfortunately, the article begins "Electrowinning, also called electrorefining..."
Although both electrowinning and electrorefining use electrolytic cells, they are distinct processes. In electrorefining, you use an anode of impure metal, and plate pure metal onto the cathode, thereby refining the material. In electrowinning, the goal is to extract all of a metal from a leach solution containing it, and you use an insoluble anode. Oxygen is liberated at the anode, and the metal is replaced in solution by hydrogen ion as it is all plated out onto the cathode.
To make matters worse, I noticed while Googling "Wikipedia electrowinning" that this boo-boo, amongst others, was cited 18 days ago in an article titled "Accuracy of Wikipedia" about the EssJay controversy, and distributed over Shoutwire.
Currently "electrorefining" is a redirect to "electrowinning", and the electrowinning article is written from the POV that the terms are synonyms. "Someone" needs to fix this. If we have an "Articles That Are Wrong" list, this article should be added. Hermitian 13:48, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
In general, your admin and admin hopefuls are on power trips. As such, their conduct is often rude and flip to those they have pre-judged as guilty. You've got high school juniors acting like the "trolls" are vermin who must be exterminated mercilessly and the way they treat people is outrageous. They feel it beneath them to explain their actions. It makes Wiki a joke, which is part of the reason why Wiki gets so little respect in the offline world. I think the problem is that you give these jokers real power to castigate and banish members of the populace. But THERE'S INADEQUATE OVERSIGHT. That's the beauty of the US government... checks, balances, oversight. When people in a position of power know that they have people looking over their shoulder, they get their act together real quick. But in Wiki, it's so difficult for the powerless to fight back and the process takes so long.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.20.13.2 (talk • contribs) 05:56, 25 March 2007
(outdent) The IP that began this thread has been blocked for 24 hours for disruption. See Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Jonawiki. DurovaCharge! 13:16, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Too often I am seeing Wiki used as an opportunity by those with vested financial interest to exploit Wiki as a propaganda machine. They insist that every major negative point about their company/institution be "balanced" by a minor positive point for the sake of NPOV. Through their experience on Wiki, they "game the system" by using personal attacks, sockpuppet accusations, NPOV, RfC as their tools to quash dissent and run off anyone who dares to expose anything negative about their employer. It seems that the bias on this site is to add positive feel-good trivia. But GOD FORBID people malign the good reputation of such and such with statements written neutrally and in compliance with WP:ATT. Again, this hurts the credibility of Wiki because it acts an obstacle to reaching true NPOV when dissent is constantly under a witchunt. this experience makes me want to never use Wiki again, tell everyone I know what a joke this site is and write editorials to the NYTimes and WashingtonPost explaining my experiences.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.20.13.2 (talk • contribs) 05:40, 25 March 2007
I am the administrator of Classical Chinese Wikipedia, hope that you can go the here to create an account in order to prevent others register this name, thanks a lot! --KongMing 09:25, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Dear Jimbo,
First, I would like to thank you for your positive intervention at Christopher Michael Langan. Over the last several months, this article has been fraught with problems involving editorial and administrative hostility toward its subject, along with blatant disregard or misinterpretation of a number of important Wikipedia policies including WP:BLP and WP:OR.
Asmodeus and I were banned from editing the article last December, after grave abuse of the administrative process by rogue Wikipedia administrators including FeloniousMonk, Arthur Rubin, and others. FeloniousMonk engineered two bogus "3RR" blocks against me and then convinced the ArbCom to impose an indefinite ban against me and Asmodeus. Absurdly, Asmodeus was banned from editing an article that he had only edited three times, and not at all in the six (6) months preceding the ban.
Although the real motives behind these actions were more or less evident from the start, they became unmistakable when Wikipedia administrator FeloniousMonk and others inserted, over the strong objections of Asmodeus, a package of defamatory misinformation provided by certain litigious parties hostile to the subject of the biography, under obvious protection and encouragement from his/her fellow administrators (Arthur Rubin, Guettarda, jim62sch, KillerChihuahua, and others).
You have now stepped in, and pointing to the relevant policies, have made it clear that WP:BLP and WP:OR were indeed being violated. Of course, since you are finally in charge of the Wikipedia Project, it is not surprising that your word is being taken as law. However, the exact same things have been pointed out to the violators by others many times before, and were merely used as occasions for fun, belittlement, and administrative persecution.
I would appreciate it if the nature of my editing of this entry could be reviewed in this new light. I believe that I was banned not because of "disruptive editing" as put forth in the "ScienceApologist" RfAr, but because I was suspected of being the wife of the subject of the bio and a potential defender of NPOV from those Wikipedia administrators who wished to skew it or let it be skewed by others. While I never admitted or denied being personally involved - as long as anonymity is allowed at Wikipedia, that will remain my prerogative - I always tried to follow Wikipedia policy and maintain neutrality in my editing. I firmly believe that whenever I made an edit to the article, it was an improvement in terms of neutrality, accuracy, and flow.
FeloniousMonk has compiled this "evidence" against me. I stand by the neutrality and factual accuracy of all of my edits. The main argument against me, while hinting at all kinds of imaginary misdeeds and ulterior motives, ultimately revolved around the fact that while Langan was being aggressively portrayed as a militant ID advocate (despite no declaration to that effect by Langan himself or anyone who knows him), I had tried to balance the article by removing obvious violations of WP:OR. This argument was clearly no good. It has now been consensually established that while Langan is a fellow of ISCID, to label him an "ID advocate" is to go beyond verifiable facts, and thus to violate WP:OR. So it would now appear that I was right all along. Yet I remain under an indefinite ban which was designed to let FeloniousMonk and his friends do whatever they pleased, right or wrong, without answerability or meaningful opposition from anyone with actual knowledge pertaining to the article. Since this ban was abusive and wrongfully imposed, I would like my edits to be reviewed in this new light, and the indefinite ban to be lifted.
Of course, the ban against Asmodeus should also be lifted. The large green tag at the top of the article's talk page gives everyone the erroneous impression that Asmodeus and I were legitimately found to be disruptive and "self-promoting". But this is not actually the case. Asmodeus rarely edited the article, did not edit it at all for six months prior to the ban, and is unlikely to edit it in the future on anything but an emergency basis. We have no shortage of other matters that demand our attention.
There is a good reason that I am writing to you personally instead of opening a Request for Comment. The reason is this: after the RfAr mentioned above, and this previous abusive Request for Comment, I no longer have faith in Wikipedia's dispute resolution process or the integrity of many of its administrators. Asmodeus and I have already wasted a huge amount of time and effort trying to obtain relief through the channels allegedly provided for that purpose within Wikipedia itself, but were only abused for our trouble. Quite understandably, we are hesitant to throw good time after bad.
Thanks for your attention to this matter, and for anything that you can do to rectify this error and prevent future abuses of this kind. --DrL 17:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Just to let you know, I responded to your comments, I'm not clear on whether or not you simply read the (less than accurate) summaries on the talk page claiming it is an "attack page" or that I am a "character assassin" - or if you actually took a look at the article. I don't think any part of the article took information from the conspiracy theorists, it dealt only with the established facts. The conspiracies are things like "Aquino was protected because the Attorney General's office was filled with Satanists" or tried to tie Aquino with the Franklin Coverup Scandal which alleges that Nixon and Bush were involved in a pedophile-ring. *That* sort of crap certainly does not belong on Wikipedia - I agree, but the actual information about the investigation, and subsequent dismissal, is in no way painting Aquino in any more negative a light than we paint Richard Jewell - in fact, as the primary author, I'd have to say that it seems the article is overly sympthetic towards him, highlighting the media's "witch-hunt" attacking his mother, mentioning that his critics are largely considered conspiracy theorists, and such. Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead) 01:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
As you will likely be hearing about this in any case, and you were involved in this discussion, I'd like to let you know I've protected this page. I have not been involved in the discussion, and there's been a tremendous edit war over its wording for several days. If you believe this will be unhelpful, please reverse me, but I believe this will help those in the dispute to come to a resolution on the poll's setup and wording. I think it's an important discussion for the community to have, and it can't start while its framework is being warred over. Seraphimblade Talk to me 02:41, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Trampton has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding ((subst:Smile)) to their talk page with a friendly message.
Trampton 03:38, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
This may be a bit of an odd question, but do you like to play chess? It's for your article, and I just noticed the discussion on Talk:Jimmy Wales. If you could, reply there so it's more visible to the people interested in possibly adding this somewhere in the article. Thanks, Pyrospirit Flames Fire 14:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Hello Jimbo, i'd like to bring to your attention Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Xenoharbingers. While it was initially a fairly obvious piece of vandalism on the part of my friend (and by searching through the various socks you can see other pages he's made for himself, such as Kojiami), he has decided to bring sock and meat puppets in to complicate it, and he has told me (over MSN) that he plans on making false sources, such as podcasting, using friends in his local paper, and other various things to keep his site up. Even if this weren't about half a dozen different types of policy violation and vandalism, i'd consider this a violation of WP:POINT to prove the concept of wikiality. While I could go deeper in the story, the basic concept is that i'd appreciate it if you would look over the article and the AfD (along with the various sock/meat puppets voting keep, compared to the history and talk pages of users voting delete) and would delete the page and protect it from recreation. I don't care about people that dislike wikipedia, but people who have such contempt for wikipedia that they turn to trolling and vandalism very much piss me off. If I have to report a friend, so be it, he wasn't much of a friend anyway. -- febtalk 21:10, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Somebody asked about this at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions#Screens at live performances. So, I mentioned Image:Kate Walsh Ted Global 2.JPG again, which is an example of such an image. --Rob 08:42, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
I am a new editor, and a really slow learner I must say but on this talk page there are people talking who are repeating the same thing and it's getting no where. I thought that since you are one of the one's to start Wikipedia, that maybe your help is desperately needed here. If you would check it out, it would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, --Crohnie 20:36, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi jimbo, could you please sign my autograph page? Then sign Annafoxlover's and Qmwnebrvtcyxuz's sig books? They would be really grateful. Please? :-) Pengwiin / talk I worship you.
Wikipedia succeeds because you have lead it to place ideas over objectives. Wikipedians continue to participate in Wikipedia because you created a place in which they can trust and come to like others and may be supported by others in return. These are rough times, but it is your leadership through kindness that has gotten us where we are today. With your continued trust in your own judgment and the ideals that you set in place long ago, we all will get through these rough times together. -- Jreferee 15:59, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
If you look here you will find that an admin seems to think he has an overriding vote in the AfD. Out of all the almost identical votes on each side and ranting and raving, it was clearly a No Consensus closure. Also, Most of the delete votes and the nomination were WP:IDONTLIKEIT and wasn't a game guide and WP:FC and WP:LC are not policy and are just concepts forced upon people to get articles deleted. Can you please do something about it. Henchman 2000 18:16, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Last year, I stopped editing on Wikipedia because I stopped enjoying it. In large part that was because of my dealings with Essjay and the fact that when he abused his powers as an administrator, I couldn't get enough help to go through the multi-layered and time-intensive process to stop the abuse. I even posted here and was ignored.
Basically, and in my opinion, Essjay was a bad admin. Not enough attention was paid to his actions in administration, and now it is clear that not enough attention was paid to his using false credentials in order to 'win' disputes.
I do understand and am very glad that the result of the controversy will be a tighter watch on claiming credentials in disputes. I also hope that more attention will be paid to administrators' foibles and failings and that when an editor such as myself with a history of volunteering for Wikipedia brings forward a serious complaint, there is help to get them through the long process of dealing with that complaint (or the process is made clearer and more compact...I couldn't afford the tens of hours it would take me to get through it all to a point of resolution...who can?).
Thank you for your time reading this comment on Wikipedia. I've now returned to editing in hopes that it all improves from here...the way a community-driven project should. --Kickstart70-T-C 20:12, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Essjay made a mistake, like everyone does. He also made it very early, when he did not know the consequences. It all came back to haunt him later, since he couldn't deny what he had said before... The longer he put it off, the worse it got, and eventually it imploded on him. Yes he should not have used his 'position' to gain an edge in disputes, but a few incidents are hardly enough to merit such a reaction. Prodego talk 01:07, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
I have some serious WP:BLP concerns about Category:Anti-Semitic people. I nominated this category for deletion, but it appears that, as with the previous 6 attempts, there will be no consensus. I'm asking you to weigh in - not using your "God King" powers, but rather, giving your opinion as a respected member of the Wikipedia community.
This category was created by User:Battlefield, a sockpuppet of banned User:SirIsaacBrock. Ever since its inception, it has been the subject of controversy, edit wars, and POV arguments. It is clearly intended to be placed on biographical articles; this creates inherent WP:BLP issues, since very few people in the modern era self-identify as antisemites, and many would consider such a claim to be highly insulting. Since such classification is a matter of opinion, the category violates WP:NPOV. In most cases, it will not be appropriate for an encyclopedia article to outright state that someone is an antisemite. Instead, if they have been called such by prominent groups like the ADL or SPLC, this should be indicated, with citations. If they've made prominent anti-Jewish statements, those should be documented and cited. If they committed atrocities against Jews, list that, again with proper cites. But it is unencyclopedic to openly brand people antisemites, whether in the article or by category. If anything, a category is worse since it is free-floating and contains no documentation of the claims contained therein.
Most of the "keep" arguments seem to me not to be well founded in Wikipedia policy. WP:USEFUL comes up a lot. Many users say something like "Keep, antisemitism really exists and is really a problem." No one disputes that. Racism exists too, but Category:Racists was deleted and salted for the same reasons I listed above. Other users say "keep, since it's been nominated six times before", but GNAA was nominated nearly 20 times before finally being deleted.
This category is an embarrasment to Wikipedia. It really needs to go. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 00:45, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Hello Jimbo. Per your request, we've been attempting to assemble a straw poll through which the community can express its opinions regarding the Wikipedia:Attribution page and the merger behind it. Unfortunately, a great deal of disagreement has arisen as to what structure the poll should take. After over a week and work by hundreds of people across a variety of pages (drawn in by the previous Watchlist notice to make sure it was properly advertised), the final form of the poll is beginning to take shape and the discussion is basically down to the form of the main Question in the poll. In an attempt to gain a clear concensus, a last straw poll is up and running to decide the form of "Q1" as we called it. The pre-poll is divided between the top five most desired forms, based on all the previous discussion. Please see Wikipedia_talk:Attribution/Poll#Pre_straw_poll_straw_poll_for_Q1 . Your comments will be appreciated. The target date to start the actual poll on ATT that you asked for is 04/02/07 at 00:00UST. This pre-poll for Q1 is tentatively slated to run to 04/01/07 22:00 UST to hash out this last major detail. - Denny 03:09, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm currently informally mediating between people on the Attribution project. If possible, I'd like to talk with you as well at earliest convenience. I hope you have 10 minutes at some point in time. --Kim Bruning 03:35, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
I've created this page - Wikipedia:Meetup/Melbourne 5 - to coordinate efforts for the proposed breakfast meetup on 27 April. I'd better get you to sign up on the page to make sure it's set in stone. :) Metamagician3000 07:57, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Please look at the most recent versions of Southern mafia and Unholy Alliance. There was unusual interest in their deletion by self-identified deletionists, religionists, or conservatives. After edits addressed original criticism, they continued to attack the articles to get them killed as "inherently not inclusionworthy." As a result, the considerable information in those articles got buried. There have also been threats against and vandalism of Dixie Mafia. I ask that they be restored and protected from edit for six months, and that you look into possible similar activities of users Arkyan, Blueboar, and Anthony. Thanks. --MBHiii 14:05, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
I've written you a short poem.
Will you be my friend? With haste Niddhogg, To the healing spring of Jutenheim. Nay hath actually a spitpool. I'm not even f**king joking. So lay waste to the roots of the world tree, Lay waste to the shadows of Midgard Thankyou for reading
212.219.57.126 14:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Jimbo, if you'd like a warm chuckle have a look the allusions in this post (which ranks among the wittiest support reasons ever posted to WP:RFA).[25] DurovaCharge! 14:58, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Hello, Jimbo - DrL here. I'm hoping that you've had a chance to read my last letter to you.
I know how busy we all are, but I'm still wondering how editors who have not violated Wikipedia policy get banned from editing particular articles even when they have conspicuously refrained from editing those articles in a disruptive way (as opposed to removing slurs and falsehoods planted there by Wikipedia sysops and others, or merely enhancing their accuracy and flow).
My first letter was admittedly a bit long, so I'll try to reduce it to just one question. How is it that Asmodeus has been banned from editing the article Christopher Michael Langan when he only edited this article two or three times, and never in a disruptive way? In fact, Asmodeus had not edited the article at all in the six months prior to the ban. This makes it look as though he was banned from editing the article simply because he was suspected of being its subject...a kind of "punish the potential criminal before he has a chance to commit the possible crime" sort of maneuver. (I haven't yet gotten a chance to see the sci-fi movie Minority Report, but I understand that its plot runs along those lines.)
Regardless of RL identity, what Asmodeus and I have done is not against the rules of Wikipedia. In fact, the rules explicitly allow it, especially under the circumstances that existed when we were forced to do it. Even if you think of it as "bad form", it was still immeasurably better than allowing CML and CML-related articles to be trashed by those hostile to him and his ideas. (Not to seem impertinent, but the New Yorker says that you edited your own bio 18 times in the space of a single year. Unlike those who have been harassing Asmodeus, I choose to exercise good faith, and therefore assume that you had very good reasons for doing so. Is it really too much to ask that the same good faith be applied to Asmodeus and me?)
If you can't bring yourself to address this situation, then is there some kind of "Supreme Wikicourt" other than the ArbCom - i.e., other than the court whose bad decision I'm appealing - to which I could make my case briefly, conveniently, and without wasting too much more of my valuable time in pursuit of another ridiculously inequitable outcome? Hopefully, any such august panel would consist of real people rather than anonymous sysops, many of whom have been causing significant problems for Wikipedia by way of administrative abuse.
I'd appreciate any constructive advice that you could give me. --DrL 18:57, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
I've reblocked this account after he (inexplicably, in my view) created the obvious sockpuppet User:Zibiki Wym and made a series of posts documented here. In my opinion they are a not particularly subtle attempt at legalistic intimidation, and while not normally something blockable, in the case of a user blocked indefinitely twice they are. There were certainly no signs that he was going to become a productive user.
From my own personal correspondance with Kohs, I am of the opinion that he is an extremely unpleasant character who would not be able to work with Wikipedians long even if he wasn't being paid to edit, and from an email you sent to me last October I was under the impression that you at least partly shared this view. If you must allow him to edit, you're the boss, but I reblocked him under the assumption that just because you youself unblocked him, it didn't mean that further unpleasant behaviour would be tolerated. --Sam Blanning(talk) 23:34, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Dear Jimbo, I would like to ask you what is your opinion on Association of Members' Advocates. This, because a user has opened an MfD against us as anyone could and has given some reasons. Mainly, the concerns were already told us by the current ArbCom: that we are to close to wikilawyers in arbitrations and I sincerely think that our perfomances in arbitration are really bad. But we never have received a complaint from MedCom nor from you.
My answer about our deplorable results on arbitrations is that a group of AMA (including me) have created The Arbitration Team, to help advocates with some training and give advocees the chance to have more experienced and balanced advocates on their arbitration. Yes, I recognize the team isn't working, but no one want to give us even a chance.
I'm not AMA's coordinator to guarrantee that all AMA members will respect the MfD result; let's hope that no "rebel" party appears (that would be a shame)... My only concern is what will happen with the people that have an unanswered advocay request; could (in case of a deletion result) the deletion be postponed until we answer all remaining requests or for a certain reasonable amount of time?
Thanks in advice; if you don't reply on time, I'll understand you couldn't and that we had bad luck. If you think we're the most useless thing on earth, I'll understand it too.
Best regards, Neigel von Teighen | help with arbs? 09:17, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Saw your comment at the Fair use exemption discussion and thought you might also be interested to comment on a similar discussion about Fair use in Portal space.IvoShandor 09:52, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Per comments on the Talk page here, and in other locales, it appears groups of editors are specifically against Jimbo's specifically requested public poll to gauge thoughts/support on the idea of the ATT merger. As it has been stated that the Poll is "dead" per users such as User:WAS 4.250, I am nominating this. If there is wide spread support to run this poll, this page should be kept. The MfD is here:
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Attribution/Poll
Thank you. - Denny 16:08, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
The poll is now open at Wikipedia:Attribution/Poll ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 01:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I am 百楽兎, mainly writing articles on Japanese & Chinese Wikipedia. Because more and more articles of English Wikipedia are translated to Chinese Wikipedia, so recently a complicated problem and argument regarding GFDL still has no good solution there.
GFDL said "Translation is considered a kind of modification, so you may distribute translations of the Document under the terms of section 4." Easily speaking, it means translators have to obey GFDL, but there are technical problems when translating articles from one Wikipedia to another Wikipedia. For example, how to keep histories and contributors' names in a translation version?
I think it would be better if Foundation could officially give all wikipedians an instruction and explanation regarding this copyright problem. Thank you for your attetion.--百楽兎 03:00, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, a user Pi rate. Sounds like Irate, no? Prodego talk 02:10, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I find this a very strange position, given Wikipedia's vulnerability to issues like this one. I was the main contributor to this Wikipedia's article on Yagan. It got translated to German and posted on the German Wikipedia, without any attribution of authorship to me. As a result, anybody who visits de:Yagan will be utterly unable to ascertain my substantial authorship of the material in that article. That is a clear violation of the license under which I released my copyrighted material to the Wikimedia Foundation. I don't care about the violation, but I care that you don't care, if you know what I mean. Hesperian 04:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
The presence of a "consensus system" where thousands of teen administrators block people from editing an encyclopedia, will be the downfall of this project, in my opinion. Would we want people without an ounce of wisdom, running the world? 16 year old human beings can be very smart about things that make sense to 16 year old human beings. They are not likely to ascertain enough wisdom to raise a finger to vote on anything in the world that has substance, let alone run a business, or a foundation.
Without a leadership that is wise, this experiment will self destruct into a dull noise, not an encyclopedia.
The real journalists of the world will pick up the pieces called Wikipedia and merge it to a real encyclopedia with a board, and shareholders and people with something at risk. Here, with most people not even using real names and credentials, life experience, there is no risk and too many opportunities to allow vandalism.
I agree with the university bans against Wikipedia that are being established around the globe.
Consensus? That is a joke. More like lynch mobs. Blocking has become more important than editing. ErgoEgo 02:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello, dude! Hey, mind if you sign your name into my autograph list? :) IsuzuAxiom1007 (talk • contribs • Sign here!) 04:36, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Yikes! Censoring Prof. Hewitt will further sully the reputation of the Wikipedia. Do we need more of this?--70.132.21.226 16:05, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I've read all the news articles I can find on the topic, but none of the interviews with you discuss your views on citizendium. While any personal feeling you have are interesting, I think the public record would benefit from your expert opinion. Is the advent of citizendium going to negatively affect wikipedia in any way? Is the editing process of citizendium in any way an improvement? If so, why weren't these changes merely incorporated into Wikipedia? At any time in the future will divulgence of Wikipedia's editors names be mandatory, especially as more and more people become adept at circumventing IP tracking?
I wrote an article on my blog on the subject that you may or may not find interesting, and any comments clearing up these murky gray areas would greatly be appreciated.
http://letstalkabouttheweather.blogspot.com/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.21.208.120 (talk) 20:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC).
Dear Administrator of Wikipedia, Mr Jimmy Wales, I would like congratulate you on high quality and powerful influence website. I must respectfully warn of you to avoid defame the admired Communist Party of China, or great nation People's Republic of China. To do so creates many problem between our government and Wikipedia, as well as general relation with the West. I do not intend making threat, but I obligated to remind you that commercial operations of Wikipedia in People's Republic of China is dependent on government tolerance, and great appreciation will be shown of your assisting in producing editorial environment conducive to Wikipedia in China, including Taiwan Province related article. (I have zero affiliation with Communist Party of China). Wen Hsing 21:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
The mop was Deskana *Glares* --Andrew Hampe | Talk 02:18, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
To Jimbo (and other readers):
I copied an ASCII art rendition of the Wikipedia logo to my user page. Apparently it was created anonymously and placed on the talk page of an IP address. Please take a look! YechielMan 04:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
This is just my suggestion, you don't really have to take it, but here it is: it seems to me that there is a large amount of vandalism on april 1st (April Fools Day). You probably remember that hoax article, created on April 1st 2005, which was only removed January 2006 (see Criticism of Wikipedia). Therefore I propose a semi-protect of all articles on April 1st, or at least on creating new ones. Why not? -Use the force (Talk * Contribs) 21:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I disagree we should do what we always do revert or remove. There's vandalism everyday how's one particular day any different? Xavcam 21:48, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Some of your recent edits have been considered helpful or constructive and have not been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. --Tewy 01:12, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Dear Sir, I notice from your user page that you are learning German. I am a pretty good German speaker, and I would be happy to assist you with your learning if you would welcome such assistance. You may reply to my talk page or here, whichever you prefer. Thanks. Thor Malmjursson 02:32, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Your important video message won't play on my computer because it uses Java. Anyway, is this an April Fool's Joke? A• •F•O•X ¡u6is April Fool's Day 2OO7 02:37, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Jim,
I have a question: Do you have any plans, or the foundation, to implement the merging of accounts? I have too many accounts but i can't usurp because there have been edits made. And there are no e-mails set. This is a software limitation, right? Thanks. Gaclbusiness 18:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Also problem exist on page Pedophile, Pedophile activism - too many pedophile supporter view given light of day. I urge you Master Administrator Jimbo to use power to silence deviants and criminal. Be careful of infiltration of upper rank by those with agenda, if our Chinese Government perceives problem with Wikipedia, access freedom may need some careful measures. We see some concerning report in Western media, and within Wikipedia and related Wikitruth project. I hope you will make decisive and public actions. You do not require label of 'censorship' - I prefer 'content refinement' for benefit wider society.Wen Hsing 04:18, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
This editor, from CBS no less, has been warned 10 tens over months. Now he/she's having fun vandalizing Lou Dobbs. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lou_Dobbs&diff=prev&oldid=119361298
Jimbo, why don't you just cut to the chase with BLP vandals and blcok their IP's instantly before you get wikipedia sued again and again, more Sinbads, etc. These IP's are given 3 chances or more, usually more, while BLP's go on for hours with edits like "Lou Dobbs mom was a prostitute". This is just one example. Block the IP's instantly. AGF does not apply to people and IP's that are putting wikipedia/wikia/you in financial danger and media laughingstock status. Piperdown 02:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if you're aware of this yet. "Wikipedia founder's bold experiment" --70.179.170.119 04:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Mr.Wales,
First of all, I was banned a few months back for editing the Anaheim Hills, Anaheim, California page. But that is not why I am here. Recently a user, User:OFF232, edited that page, by the looks of it to try and clean it up. However, other admins have deleted his work, and even gone so far as to permenantly ban him, as well as delete 2 other pages he created over the past 2 months. I think this is unfair to do to someone, considering they did nothing wrong but edit a page that was in controversy.
Even though I am banned, I check back on the page once in a while, and have noticed that they keep reverting the edits he made. He has edited under IP's 75.37.134.182, 75.22.74.118, 75.41.182.188, as well as his username OFF 232. Now, my IP's are always 69.237.xx.xxx . As you can see, his and my IP numbers are not the same, but he is still being wrongly accused of being me. I think it is wrong that he is being treated this way, having all his hard work deleted because bitter Admin's on the page do not want ANYBODY to edit Anaheim Hills, and when people do, they accuse those people as me. I think a huge injustice has been done to User:OFF232 and his edits today that he keeps trying to revert, but get deleted by superior and abusive admins. Please check the situation out. 69.232.63.99 04:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I'd love to hear an answer, if you could find time to....!
— Xiutwel (talk) 10:27, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Does Wikipedia plan to do anything about Citizendium using material without attribution, in violation of the GFDL? I checked out a few articles by name and then hit random page a few times. The majority of the articles I saw were substantially identical to their Wikipedia counterparts. None of them had a list of editors. A few linked back to Wikipedia. Some articles, including Jesus, List of inorganic compounds, and Ciénaga, Magdalena were obviously block copied from Wikipedia with no attribution of any kind or indication that there were any editors outside of those listed in the page history on Citizendium. This is in violation of the GFDL. --Born2x 17:43, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Asking nicely isn't likely to help. According to their forums they believe they can violate the license... and even lock up content derived from Wikipeida under a non-free license. :( .... Worse, it seems that the primary motivation from this is to prevent us from benefiting from their work like they benefit from ours. ... No matter what you think of their approach to quality, their approach to ethical leaves a lot to be desired. :( I'm sure once they've been burned by losing all license to distribute a few articles and being called on it (if you violate the GFDL you automatically lose your license) they will begin conforming strictly while taking every legal measure to avoid helping us as we help them. ... I think we should still wish them luck, as we did with all of Sanger's prior unsuccessful Wikipedia forks, but I sure wish they wouldn't behave fairly.--Gmaxwell 20:44, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Just to let you guys know, there is a process on Citizendium for giving attribution to Wikipedia (a special template I think). People just forget sometimes, just like editors do here, when they end up plagiarizing. It's certainly not uncommon, and you are just as responsible for that as Citizendium is for their violations. So don't be hypocritical and arrogant, okay? It's never fun.
And if you really want to talk about GFDL violations, just look at Wikipedia:Oversight. 67.86.86.217 04:12, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Dear Jimbo,
I would love to hear your ideas on the following:
Wikipedia is an excellent base for knowledge. That is: generally accepted knowledge. However, it fails misarably in cases where the generally accepted knowledge or paradigm happens to be false — or, might be false. Imagine wikipedia existing in the era when the Earth was still flat. Wikipedia would than ridicule or delete any articles which would describe the Earth as a sphere orbiting the Sun.
I understand that this is a choice wikipedia had to make: the dominant paradigm rules, as this is the one that has "reliable" sources etc. But I also think Humanity would be served with a wikipedia in which the underdog-paradigm can be explained. Without fear of being wrong. Simply reflecting the opinions and knowledge of large numbers of people, even when it is "only" indigenous knowledge or "common knowledge" and is NOT supported by mainstream "knowledge".
How would it be for you to have something like: alt.wikipedia.org Or, if we do not even use the wikipedia name, something else, e.g. alt.fringepedia.org or something like that.
With love, and gratitude for your projects,
Dear Feba,
thank you for your suggestion. It helps me to get more clear for myself what I want. Wikia is not what I am looking for. I want something which is encyclopedic, but which is also free in the sense that a certain modesty prevails, in stead of a dominant paradigm which tries to exclude or ridicule all knowlegde and all viewpoints which do not align with it. — Xiutwel (talk) 10:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I believe such alternative project existing already current, it is called Encyclopedia Dramatica, however it is many large problem. I try to read and correct inaccuracy but I am misunderstanding and ineffectual. I am offend by the article concerning China on this Encyclopedia Dramatica project. Information technology countermeasures may be only likely method of correction of defamatory and racist remark.Wen Hsing 20:43, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I saw you on the Sunday program this morning. You spoke well, especially on Essjay. I was confused though as to what you were wearing? An interesting item of clothing.
Pls check images there on Muhammad page and the images were not there last year on the same page, aren't we annoying/turning away Muslim Wikipedians and also aren't we creating physological barrier for them to come on board. If this can annoy a Hindu Wikipedian like me then think of how it will play on minds of Muslim Wikipedian. Also check titles of some pages like Alexander the Great and quoting this another page is titled as Ashoka the Great. Isn't this a blatant systemic bias and this could hamper growth of Wikipedia in third world countries and I along with many other secular/neutral Wikipedian will be saddened. This issue is identified by some Wikipedians hence there is a project for the same, check Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countering_systemic_bias#The_origins_of_bias.
One way to counter systemic bias is by empowering active Wikipedians say by introducing point system and anybody above a certain threshold can have some say in say dispute resolution/locking/unlocking/admin selection/admin removal etc.
Your views pls. Vjdchauhan 18:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC). (Don't go by the 1'st April date, its a serious issue and am concerned)
With all of the things you have going on, how often do you check this page for messages? The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 01:47, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Could ypu please change the rules and let Wikipedia comment on speculation? Thanks. Mike J FOX 03:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
What is justification for allow unverify speculation, rumour and dissident propaganda? It is a strength of Wikipedia Project that verify fact is requirement. Many speculation is made in personal blog.Wen Hsing 20:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I just wanted to let you know that an editor has cited your comments in regards to the removal of negative unsourced comments about a living person. The comments in question: "Basically a self-confessed mud-slinging bullshit merchant throwing anything and everything at his pet hate." When this comment was removed, he insisted that doing so was the wrong thing to do per a comment you made: [26]. Just a heads up, feel free to respond or ignore. Thanks. --Minderbinder 21:12, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Milo, do not ever edit my comments! [27]. Dreadlocke ☥ 23:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
My apologies to Jimbo for this dispute being brought here like this. Dreadlocke ☥ 21:05, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I have a made a proposal at the Village Pump here, arguing that rather than appointing administrators for an indefinite period, there should instead be an automatic review process for all administrators every year or two, run along the same lines as the original WP:RFA. Thus I'm not arguing for a time limit for administrators, but simply a more streamlined and effective mechanism of accountability. I believe this proposal will benefit good editors and Wikipedia. I hope you will take the time to examine the argument, and that you may look favourably upon the idea. Thanks. FNMF 08:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Image:PARTY HARD!!!.gif
Yours truly, a cabalist. The Sky May Be 12:33, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Jimbo, your comments in support of the statement that "Wikipedia is not an experiment in democracy" have been cited by folks talking about "Polling is evil" when arguing against the utilization of polls on the project. Such language seems at odds with what you said regarding polls in this mail list message. This seems rather silly given the fact that everyone knows that polling is happening all the time on various aspects of both the project and articles. The page Wikipedia:Straw polls used to be a guideline and then for some reason it got derailed and was susequently tagged by User:Radiant! as ((historical)) whereupon I tagged it as an ((essay)). While I realize that Wikipedia is not a democracy I also realize it is not a government and so like other non-governmental organizations it isn't surpring to see polling applied here. Given the frequency of polling that goes on on the project and the lack of a recognized guideline about that myself and other editors have decided to try to bring Wikipedia:Straw polls back up to guideline recognition but we're encountering resistance from "voting is evil" editors. Your recent WP:ATT "polling" commentary is very much in the air right now about this and so in that light could you possibly join the discussion (as an editor) over on Wikipedia talk:Straw polls about this? Thanks. (→Netscott) 18:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I apologize for asking this here, but I believe that this is the only place that it can be brought up, since it was you that made the decision to not allow "with permission" licenses. I also apologize for reposting this; unless I missed it, you did not give any indication that you had read it. Here's the issue: the International Symbol of Access (that wheelchair logo you see everywhere) is copyrighted. Its conditions of use essentially make it a "with-permission" image; the only place where fair use applies is on the International Symbol of Access article itself. At Wikipedia talk:Fair use#The wheelchair logo is copyrighted; what should we use instead? I discussed this with other users, and made a free replacement - - that the uses of the copyrighted symbol have been replaced with. I do agree, however, with many of the people that commented that this seems pretty silly: the symbol is an international standard that people recognize. Can you please offer your view either here or at Wikipedia talk:Fair use#The wheelchair logo is copyrighted; what should we use instead?, or at least indicate that you have seen this and are OK with status quo? Thank you. --NE2 01:19, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
1968 is a long time ago, though.--Jimbo Wales 13:09, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Here is a message I received from Tivedshambo regarding this issue:
I have researched this and the symbol's copyright is simply to prevent misuse of the symbol. Using the symbol here on Wikipedia to note accessible rail stations is perfectly ok. I uploaded a new image (Image:isa.svg) and its fair use detail are listed there. I also changed ((access icon)) to include the new symbol I uploaded. –Crashintome4196 07:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Jimbo, I understand you feel that under current licensing policies this logo is not usable within wikipedia. If this is the case, then I think I should remove the wikipedia logo from Template:InterWiki, should i not? The wikipedia logo is not under a free license, and as such may only be used under WP:FU (our only EDP atm). Usage like in this template however are not allowed, because they are only used as "visual cue"s to links on pages not directly associated to wikipedia... And yes, I'm making a point here: I think not allowing the use of an ISA symbol is simply stupid, and the use of a derivative work of the ISA symbol (which also violates the licensing terms of the symbol's usage) is even more stupid, and not allowing use of this symbol while not freely licensing our own logo and still alowing THAT to be used is hypocritical. --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 19:38, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
--TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 19:58, 4 April 2007 (UTC)