The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Chicago#Culture and contemporary life. The weak consensus to delete at the time of the last relisting has turned into a relatively stronger consensus to do so. However, there was also a reasonable argument that the content could be merged elsewhere; the festival is a viable search target, hence the result of "redirect". This leaves the option to merge the old content into the Chicago (or related) article, or even food truck rally as suggested by a participant. Primefac (talk) 13:09, 11 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Chicago Food Truck Festival[edit]

Chicago Food Truck Festival (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Proposing article for deletion, as this article was authored by the festival's creator User:Maned Owl Events (now indefinitely blocked from Wikipedia for promotional text). This festival is not like Chicago Blues Festivals and such. It's a commercial festival requiring fees for admissions. The articles referenced do not give notability as many do not reference the actual festival or not from notable sources. Banchasana (talk) 18:22, 26 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

*CommentCorrection this festival is like the Chicago Blues Festival which has a Wikipedia page as tickets are free. The event is reported to have free tickets by the Tribune. Thelegaldude (talk)7:31, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 19:27, 26 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 19:34, 26 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Putting aside any weak references, the remaining ones are enough to demonstrate notability. Being a commercial festival does not detract from notability. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 19:37, 26 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. The recent edits by Thelegaldude (talk · contribs · count) have improved the article. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 21:25, 26 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep sufficient number and depth of coverage here to clearly pass the WP:GNG. Many notable events sell tickets: concerts and museum shows come to mind. That the article creator had a COI is not relevant if the current article is neutral, as it seems to be. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 01:50, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete local sourcing and events of interest only to a locality are still not enough to make something notable, even if in a big city. That the creator was a spammer is exceptionally relevant because native advertising is a thing and simply having an article on the 5th most viewed website on the internet is a form of advertising, especially if the text is controlled by you. Neutral tone does not make it not spam. We delete spam, regardless of notability, even if it doesn’t meet the ridiculously strict G11 standard. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:37, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actually as per WP:PRESERVE if there is a spammy article about a notable topic, we do not delete it, we edit it to remove promotion. It is simply incorrect, and against policy, to say that a neutral article about a notable topic is spam. Otherwise we should never have any article about a corporation or business, as any of them may benefit from having an article here. Now the question of whether this is of purely local interest is relevant -- purely local events are often not considered notable. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 14:52, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • False. That is editing policy, not deletion policy, and WP:DON'T PRESERVE is equally there. It is up to editorial discretion how we deal with spam. Finally, WP:NOT is our exclusion policy, and is controlling over any editorial policy: it is directly part of the deletion policy and is equally part of WP:N to the GNG. It is impossible to pass the notability guideline while failing the policy of WP:NOTSPAM. TonyBallioni (talk) 20:51, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      • Nonsense, or at best incorrect. WP:DON'T PRESERVE is about content that failsverifibility, fails WP:NOT or fails WP:NOR. This article is supported by multiple sources and is clearly verifiable, nor is it in any way original research, nor does it fal under any of the sections of WP:NOT. WP:NOTSPAM says Information about companies and products must be written in an objective and unbiased style, free of puffery. All article topics must be verifiable with independent, third-party sources, so articles about very small garage bands or local companies are typically unacceptable. Wikipedia articles about a company or organization are not an extension of their website or other social media marketing efforts. This article is written objectively, is neutral in tone, is sourced to multiple reliable independent sources, quotes negative as well as positive impressions of the event, and cannot reasonably be described as promotional. If a former version of the article was promotional, that is quite irrelevant. Now i will grant that if the event is considered too local, that might make the judgement fall against notability, but that is significantly different from being SPAM, and is something for each editor expressing a view here to comment on. But if th4e topic is in fact notable, than the intentions of the original creator don't matter (if they did, the article could be deleted and promptly recreated by a good-faith editor). DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 22:27, 28 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
        • Thank you for making my argument for deletion for me: you've just described native advertising, which anyone who has done any work in any type of external relations field would recognize. No one writes PR and advertising the way you are describing it anymore, and if they did, they aren't worth the money you pay them. Simply having a page here where they make it seem like it is neutral but get to select the content that is covered is a form of advertising, and this is the conclusion that the overwhelming majority of AfDs come to. You are basically arguing that we should include the advertising that is best at its job. No, that's not how Wikipedia works we delete spam. As this content does entirely fail WP:NOT, so therefore cannot be included, and WP:DON'T PRESERVE applies if you think the editing policy has any relevance here. TonyBallioni (talk) 04:29, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • False. This does not fail the policy of WP:NOTSPAM. As all potential spam/advertisement wording and tone has been neutralized, revised and/or removed. Furthermore, the information passes the notability criteria The primary criteria have five components that must be evaluated separately and independently to determine if it is met: WP:N WP:ORGCRITE comment added by Thelegaldude (talk • contribs)
      • It is impossible for an advertisement to pass the notability criteria because WP:NOT is equally a part of WP:N to the GNG, and a spammer working to make their advertisement get on Google just makes it more of an advertisement. TonyBallioni (talk) 04:31, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • TonyBallioni Again, Nonsense. WP:DON'T PRESERVE is about content that failsverifibility, fails WP:NOT or fails WP:NOR Thelegaldude This article is supported by multiple verifiable and notable sources. If a former version of the article is promotional and lacked notable sources that is now irrelevant. (talk) 05:03, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep. The article now has national notability as the gathering of food trucks at rallies has a Guinness Book Entry which is notable.WP:N The record is 121 and the Chicago Food Truck Festival is 50. Thus, being notable as food truck rallies have World and National notability — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thelegaldude (talk • contribs) 18:51, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• CommentThis food truck festival is also synonymous to a food truck rally. And food truck rally's or festivals occur throughout the World. The largest rally to date is the Tampa event which made the Guinness Book of World Records. This event is in fact of national notability because it connects to a larger notable project, food truck rallies in the Guinness Book or World Records. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thelegaldude (talk • contribs) 23:42, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: Does not meet WP:NEVENT; significant RS coverage not found. Sourcing is in passing and / or hyper-local. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:05, 28 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• CommentIn 2015, the Global advertising agency Adweek, the second largest trade publication in the World covering global advertising, mentioned the event. Thus ending the local interest argument. Thelegaldude (talk) 01:22, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Found another source adding more notability. Efficient Gov reaches 43,000+ local, county and state government officials each week across the World, and they wrote an article providing significant coverage about the permitting process for the Chicago Food Truck Festival. Thelegaldude (talk) 04:27, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

WP:USERG Twitchymeatbag (talk) 02:12, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:41, 28 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Multi-year coverage by the Tribune (a RS) suggests notability. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 00:53, 29 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Barkeep49, yes, but it is a local reliable source for the Chicago area. That needs to be taken into account. Of course they are going to cover minor local events: that's what they do in addition to their regional and national coverage. We typically don't count the local interest stuff, even if it is by a high quality source like the Tribune or even the NYT. TonyBallioni (talk) 04:34, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • TonyBallioni In 2015, the Global advertising agency Adweek mentioned the event. Thus ending the local interest argument. Thelegaldude (talk) 01:11, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • TonyBallioni This feels like handwaving away GNG. I think it passes, as exemplified by the Tribune coverage I noted above, thus my keep !vote. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:08, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes. The GNG is so vague as to be meaningless, which is why we have guidelines like NCORP that tell us what it means. We don’t keep utterly local nonsense like this. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:20, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • TonyBallioni Found another source adding more notability. Efficient Gov reaches 43,000+ local, county and state government officials each week across the World, and they wrote an article providing significant coverage about permitting process for the Chicago Food Truck Festival. Thelegaldude (talk) 04:27, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • TonyBallioni Found another source from a newspaper in another state. http://www.laportecountylife.com/entertainment/gatherings/69906-don-t-miss-out-on-the-top-events-along-the-south-shore-line-june-2018 Also, the evidence, to show notability, must show the topic has gained significant independent coverage or recognition WP:NRV This is clear recognition from LaporteCountylife.com in Indiana. Thelegaldude (talk) 04:31, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

First, please learn to link your sources so people don't have to waste time googling things and hoping they find your same results. Second, if this is your source, the fact that it's labelled a blog (see the URL) should tell you that we don't consider it a reliable source for the purposes of notability. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:54, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• CommentCorrection, reference to the Chicago Food Truck Festival in Adweek is not a trivial mention like Martin Walker's statement, in a newspaper article about Bill Clinton,[1] that "In high school, he was part of a jazz band called Three Blind Mice" is plainly a trivial mention of that band. WP:GNG Unlike, the mention about Bill Clinton, the article was not about jazz bands but specifically about Bill Clinton thus trivializing the statement about a jazz band and three blind mice. However, in the Adweek article, the subject of the article is specifically about Summer Food Festivals lean on digital marketing. And it specifically is written about festivals throughout America that use digital marketing. Chicago Food Truck Festival is one of those festivals and in no way is a trivial mention. The name was not just used in passing but specifically to show this summer food festival also leaned on digital marketing and doing so drew 10,000 people. Furthermore, ADWEEK took the time to create a bold title link for Chicago Food Truck Festival. Then the article is specifically about Summer Food Festivals. That is no trivial mention like Martin Walker's statement, in a newspaper article about Bill Clinton that mentioned he was part of a jazz band called the three blind mice. This article was created to specifically to highlight Summer Food Festival throughout America that lean on digital marketing. It then specifically talks about Chicago Food Truck Festival using digital marketing and drawing over 10,000 people. Chicago Food Truck Festival is one of those few Summer food festivals. There is nothing trivial about that. Furthermore, this event has referenced links from NBC television and WGN radio. These are a notable sources which clearly passes the notability test. Thelegaldude (talk) 01:49, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

*CommentThis festival is like the Chicago Blues Festival, Chicago Jazz Festival, Taste of Chicago, Chicago Humanities festival, Chicago Reggae Festival, Chicago Festival Ballet, Chicago Maritime Festival...the list is exhaustive, which all have a Wikipedia pages. And none of the events have any notable sources. In fact, some even only have two sources unlike the Chicago Food Truck Festival which has multiple notable sources. So why are specific users targeting to have this festivals deleted? Chicago Food Truck Festival offers free tickets as well, as stated by the Tribune. Thelegaldude (talk)7:43, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

• Delete. Multiple sources are required for notability. The Tribune is only one, and it's local.Twitchymeatbag (talk) 04:14, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Twitchymeatbag In 2015, the Global advertising agency Adweek, the second largest trade publication in the World covering global advertising, mentioned the event. Thus ending the local interest argument. Thelegaldude (talk) 01:14, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You are starting to sound like spam. That is obviously WP:USERG. Twitchymeatbag (talk) 02:09, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, as per TonyBallioni. Thelegaldude's argument that a mention in Adweek means that this topic passes NCORP/GNG is invalid. A simple mention is not in-depth coverage, and therefore cannot be taken as an indication of notability. Footnote 3 of the GNG clarifies that "a series of publications by the same author or in the same periodical is normally counted as one source" (emphasis by me), so multiple reviews by the Tribune qualifies as a single source, which again is not enough to clear the notability hurdle. This goes especially so for local sources. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 22:29, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Premeditated Chaos**Twitchymeatbag Found another source in another state. http://www.laportecountylife.com/entertainment/gatherings/69906-don-t-miss-out-on-the-top-events-along-the-south-shore-line-june-2018 Also, the evidence, to show notability, must show the topic has gained significant independent coverage or recognition WP:NRV This is clear recognition from LaporteCountylife.com in Indiana. Thelegaldude (talk) 04:27, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

One single sentence stating that an event exists, in a totally WP:ROUTINE list of other events, in what basically amounts to a local advertising rag, does not constitute any sign of notability whatsoever. Go read WP:RS and WP:CORPDEPTH and don't post any more sources here until you can explain in detail how each one meets the criteria required to support notability. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 16:42, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Correction, reference to the Chicago Food Truck Festival in Adweek is not a trival mention like Martin Walker's statement, in a newspaper article about Bill Clinton,[1] that "In high school, he was part of a jazz band called Three Blind Mice" is plainly a trivial mention of that band.WP:GNG Unlike, the mention about Bill Clinton, the article was not about jazz bands but specifically about Bill Clinton thus trivializing the statement about a jazz band and three blind mice. However, in the Adweek article, the subject of the article is specifically about Summer Food Festivals lean on digital marketing. And it specifically is written about festivals throughout America that use digital marketing. Chicago Food Truck Festival is one of those festivals and in no way is a trivial mention. The name was not just used in passing but specifically to show this summer food festival also leaned on digital marketing and doing so drew 10,000 people. Furthermore, ADWEEK took the time to create a bold title link for Chicago Food Truck Festival. Then the article is specifically about Summer Food Festivals. That is no trivial mention like Martin Walker's statement, in a newspaper article about Bill Clinton that mentioned he was part of a jazz band called the three blind mice. This article was created to specifically to highlight Summer Food Festival throughout America that lean on digital marketing. It then specifically talks about Chicago Food Truck Festival using digital marketing and drawing over 10,000 people. Chicago Food Truck Festival is one of those few Summer food festivals. There is nothing trivial about that. Furthermore, this event has referenced links from NBC television and WGN radio. These are a notable sources which clearly passes the notability test. Thelegaldude (talk) 01:19, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

WGN is a local radio station. The NBC link is listed under local news. The adweek link is behind a paywall: can you provide the text?Twitchymeatbag (talk) 01:52, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• • Twitchymeatbag Found another source adding more notability. Efficient Gov reaches 43,000+ local, county and state government officials each week across the World, and they wrote an article providing significant coverage about permitting process for the Chicago Food Truck Festival. Thelegaldude (talk) 04:27, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Twitchymeatbag That is no trivial mention. Adweek specifically chose three Summer Food Festival and wrote how each leaned on digital marketing. That is not a trivial mention like Bill Clinton playing in a Jazz Band called the three blind mice.WP:GNG

Thelegaldude (talk) 02:14, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment, this is an interesting one, article created by a spa (that was subsequently blocked as promotional name/edits) back in April 2017, nothing much happens with it then out of the blue it is nominated for deletion by Banchasana, an editor who hasn't done any editing for around 5 years, thanThelegaldude (a spa) appears to defend/add to the article, cue accusations of sockpuppetry, and harassment; we've had "keepers" who say that there are plenty of significant references, and "deleters" counter this that they are local/incidental. might i suggest a redirect to an appropriate section in the Chicago article (it has a "Festivals" subsection) and a sentence added there as a compromise? Coolabahapple (talk) 07:04, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment I'm glad someone can see the irony here. However, the thing is each of those festivals in the Chicago article each have stand alone WP articles with no notable articles. That is not a compromise. Why is Chicago Food Truck Festival being "accidentally" tagged for deletion as other Chicago festivals on the list have no notable sources? Come on Coolabahapple, even my daughter can see what is going on here. Thelegaldude (talk) 12:28, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  Thelegaldude, I'm going to echo the statement I made at the SPI a few weeks ago (as well as Ad Orientem's comment on the relist) - you've said your piece, and now you're getting close to crossing into NPA territory. I'm pretty sure there's nothing else you could say that hasn't already been said by you, so I highly suggest that you step back from this for a bit and let other uninvolved editors comment. Primefac (talk) 12:32, 6 July 2018 (UTC) updated/edited 17:00, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment, Keep. The source's audience must also be considered. Evidence of significant coverage by international or national, or at least regional, media is a strong indication of notability. WP:AUD Chicago Tribune is a National and Regional newspaper. The 8th largest circulated paper in the US and the largest read newspaper in the Great Lakes Region. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tribune The Great Lakes region of North America is a bi-national Canada-American region that includes portions of the eight U.S. states. http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/ct-ent-food-truck-fest-0621-story.html

• Furthermore, Chicago Food Truck Festival is an event, and has sustained coverage from its start in 2014 until now in 2018. Sustained coverage is an indicator of notability, as described by notability of events WP:SUSTAINED
• Furthermore, Events are probably notable if they have enduring historical significance and meet the general notability guideline, or if they have a significant lasting effect. WP:EVENTCRIT An event that is a precedent or catalyst for something else of lasting significance is likely to be notable. This may include effects on the views and behaviors of society and legislation. WP:LASTING Chicago Food Truck Festival is Chicago’s first food truck festival which also lead to the first time ever federal legislation was proposed by a US Senator at the event. https://chicago.eater.com/2015/6/29/8861743/sen-mark-kirk-calls-for-fewer-food-truck-

• Also, Notable events usually have significant impact over a wide region, domain, or widespread societal group. And events that have a demonstrable long-term impact on a significant region of the world or a significant widespread societal group are presumed to be notable enough for an article. WP:GEOSCOPE Chicago Food Truck Festival has demonstrated long term impact on a region through sustained coverage, catalyst for federal legislation, and bolstering economies for small businesses as the references show.

• NBC5 also featured the Chicago Food Truck Festival. NBC5 is (WMAQTV), and WMAQTV is not only a local station. It is broadcast via cable and even reaches as far as the East Coast. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMAQ-TV https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-food-truck-fest-season-begins-479002573.html WGN reaches MI, IN, IL ABC7 reaches multiple states as well. http://abc7chicago.com/food/food-truck-fest/1293370/Thelegaldude (talk) 8:23, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

• Finally, if an article fails notability, all editors are to conduct a good faith search to find more sources and place a notability tag on the article to alert others. As a spa I have found over 5 and counting alone. WP:FAILN Thelegaldude (talk) 8:30, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
• Delete-Per PMC and TonyBallioni.∯WBG^converse 03:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge to Food truck rally as per WP:ATD-M. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 04:43, 11 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.