Guide to deletion

Purge server cache

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The result was speedily deleted by User:Husond per CSD A1. --ais523 08:53, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Every Second Counts (esc)[edit]

Every Second Counts (esc) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Reason: No encyclopedic content  Andreas  (T) 13:42, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy keep.

Native Americans in the United States[edit]

Bad article and indians suk --Brokendownhondaaccord 01:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Megatokyo. Seraphimblade Talk to me 06:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sad girl in snow[edit]

Sad girl in snow (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Apparently, the issue on if it should be deleted has been brought up before, and can be seen in the article's talk page. Despite the fact that most people felt that the article should be merged into Megatokyo, the article is still on its own. Personally, I don't even think it deserves to be merged, as it's a pretty stupid basis for a "meme" in my opinion (and I love Kanon). We don't need articles like Hot girls with guns. The article is pretty much a bunch of original research, as there's no real use of the term outside of the webcomic community. It's not like its an actual named, Japanese asthetic like wabi-sabi. SeizureDog 10:00, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached
 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Cbrown1023 talk 00:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. ¤~Persian Poet Gal (talk) 18:10, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ADD-Anonymous[edit]

ADD-Anonymous (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Reason: Does not meet notability requirements in WP:ORG -- Craigtalbert 00:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:22, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rev. Dr. David Rolfe[edit]

Rev. Dr. David Rolfe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

nn person; first Google ref is WP; nothing about him in news or reference sources; only ref is apparently a personal blog; the page is very vague on details that would give any prominence to the subject patsw 00:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:22, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of PlayStation Portable emulators[edit]

List of PlayStation Portable emulators (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

A list of redlinks, each of which is a non-notable piece of software. This subject is already covered in PlayStation Portable homebrew, but none of these emulators have any sort of individual notability. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 00:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm confused. Wouldn't that make every emulator article on Wikipedia an candidate for deletion if it links to illegal content? As far as I am aware, as long as the emulators don't use the same code as the machine they are emulating, they are legal. --tgheretford (talk) 14:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • According to US laws, emulators are perfectly legal on the basis that reverse engineering ins legal (as far as copyright concern here). (This is the reason that emulators does not include the BIOS of the original system. SYSS Mouse 21:30, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy delete. Daniel Bryant 10:42, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Infernal death (band)[edit]

Infernal death (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Everything here - nothing but unreleased demos, etc - seems to suggest this fails the WP:MUSIC guidelines, and I can't find any sources to refute it. Crystallina 00:53, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Seraphimblade Talk to me 07:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of popes by length of reign[edit]

List of popes by length of reign (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The information presented here about lengths of reigns of Popes is redundant; it is already completely contained in the main article Pope. While it is true that this page contains unique content, that content is specific to Peter and much of it is also irrelevant to the subject of length of reign. It should therefore be transferred to the main article Pope, or possibly Saint Peter. Robin S 00:52, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • The information is presented identically in the article Pope. The discussion of Saint Peter's longevity alone does not merit an entire article. The first AfD discussion may not have noticed the duplication of the information in Pope, or the information may have been transferred there as a consequence of the discussion. Either way, the article is in my opinion no longer viable. Robin S 04:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In response to those who have suggested merging, I would like to remind you that the information is already contained here in exactly the same form, so a "merge" would in fact amount to out-and-out deletion. Personally, I am in favour of a sortable table in List of popes, as Dr bab suggested (I was not previously aware that this was possible). Robin S 03:02, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please see the Wikipedia policy on merging pages. Merging is very different from deletion (even when it only involves redirecting) as the articles' history is preserved, which might be required to fullfill the GFDL in cases where information was taken from this article to the main one. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 14:37, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of U.S. states by date of statehood, List of U.S. states by area, List of U.S. states by elevation, List of U.S. states by GDP (nominal), List of U.S. states by GDP per capita (nominal), List of U.S. states by population, List of U.S. states by population density, List of U.S. states by time zone, and List of U.S. states by unemployment rate I will give deference to some people wanting to look at the list of popes so arranged. Carlossuarez46 18:33, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. - Mailer Diablo 12:27, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Trinity Christian High School[edit]

Trinity Christian High School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Look I am sorry but this School is not notable, plain and simple. Just because it is a school does not make it notable. A google search for this School, gets a low return. What is returned is a list of multiple different schools by this name. Yes, it is a school, unfortunately this does not make it notable. I informed people on both sides of the last AFD. Colleges have been deleted off of Wikipedia for lack of notability. Simply put this school does not need an article. So I say:

note - last time this article was up for deletion people stated that it needed more time, it has been on here for a year now. It still is empty. --MJHankel 01:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
note - first off, I was simply informing them even five people is not stacking the vote, is it stacking the vote to inform people that their is an election? no I did not inform all of those that voted to keep for they already made themselves known by removing the template. (though I did inform most) Also during the last vote, as I stated before the overwhelming reason for keeping it was because it had not had a lot of time to grow, a year is plenty. Yes there are verifiable links but that does not make it notable. Also, the fact that I am doing this has [nothing to do with my leanings one way or the other. I attended a non-notable highschool, it is not listed on wikipedia it does have verifiable sources though. I am so sorry if it seems that I was attempting to stack the vote. I simply was informing people that it was up for vote.--MJHankel 02:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
NOTE: Well, that happens on both sides of the aisle, doesn't it? [7] Anyway, informing a few people known to be interested in a subject is not considered Canvassing. --Butseriouslyfolks 03:03, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Reply The statement by the nominator that "Hello I know that you patrol non-notable articles and I thought I would bring this article your attention this article is up for deletion again and you can vote on it at the following page:" was aimed at individuals with track records of deleting such schools. I didn't see any efforts aimed at identifying any individuals who might differ from your opinion or might endeavor to improve the article in question. As stated at WP:Canvassing, "disruptive canvassing, even if it seems to be within guidelines below, is never acceptable." Alansohn 03:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Reply How is that disruptive? Votestacking is sending out "mass" messages. WP:C specifically states that notifying a small handful of editors who share your tastes and philosophies on a topic is permissible as Friendly Notice. I've weighed in on several school AfD's, but the editor I mentioned above has never contacted me about one (which incidentally neither surprises nor distresses me). I'm sorry, I understand (and respect) that you are passionate about this subject matter, but we all still need to assume good faith and not attempt to chill those with different opinions by inaccurately accusing them of violating policy. --Butseriouslyfolks 03:15, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
ok look- i knew that he or she (i am not sure which) knows a lot about the standards (i do not). I argued against that person when I came accross them many times. I did not tell them to vote against this article. they have voted for things to stay in some cases. I simply informed them because I do not know all the standards, besides they deal with Colleges not schools as a standard so they do not directly relate to this article. --MJHankel 03:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
also - i informed people on both sides of the argument, those for it help by adding to the article so it is better. I only am looking for this article to either be something of value or non-existent, either works for me. --MJHankel 03:24, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The nominator has made efforts to cover the damage, but it's clear that the initial attempts at votestacking, all of which used the greeting "Hello I know that you patrol non-notable articles", were aimed squarely at deletionists. Those notified after the canvassing issue was raised here received an abridged message that avoided the rather explicit push for deletion. That such votestacking occurs on both sides is a great reason to report both individuals, not to ignore it here. The attempts to trivialize this are quaint, but do nothing to address the core of the efforts to encourage individuals to vote in one direction. Alansohn 03:29, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Have you read the policy? Unless you can cite to "mass" contacts in this regard, your allegations continue to be off base and unfair. Until then, the only person who might be reportable here is you, for attempting to silence opposing views and/or alter the tallying of votes here by hurling false allegations at somebody you don't agree with. You even manage to criticize the editor for taking your advice and contacting people on the other side of the issue. --Butseriouslyfolks 03:38, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The nominator has covered his tracks as I see it, by contacting other individuals after the violations was pointed out. As I have pointed out, the nominator changed the "push" wording for those less likely to be deletionists. Your threats are entirely baseless and idle. We'd all be better off if you would explain to the nominator the potential damage he has done, rather than trying to use threats. The facts speak for themselves, and the claim that these are "false allegations" is a knowing effort to ignore the evidence provided. Alansohn 03:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Now you're accusing me of violating policy? I didn't threaten you, I merely pointed out that you are incorrect and that if anybody here is violating policy, it is you. I know you have reviewed MJHankel's contrib history, just like I have, and that you know there were only five talk page posts before you suggested that he contact people on the other side of the issue (which he then did). Five talk page posts is not votestacking per WP:Canvassing. The only "damage" MJHankel has done here is bring more people to the discussion who may disagree with your position. Nobody has done any actual damage here except you, as you have taken perfectly acceptable conduct from an established editor and couched it as something improper using only vague references to policy. Now poor MJHankel is left feeling compelled to explain his conduct when it was completely compliant with WP policy. Well, this has been fun but we're too far off topic, and I think any further comment would be redundant as well. But, as always, I'll offer you the last word. --Butseriouslyfolks 04:24, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
please Let me be as clear as I can. I was not attempting to do something wrong, I was not attempting to sway the vote, and I was not attempting to assert my opinion. I was informing (those that were few) about this Afd, so they would know (the others would follow), I was attempting to get results one way or another as fast as possible. I did later inform all for three reasons, a. I was intending to partially, earlier but had to get off the computer, b. I wanted results one way or another and I knew that informing both sides would allow the improvement of the article, c. I wanted to do exactly what you wanted me to do. I know very little policy, and that is the only reason I informed the other person of this they patrol article that lack notability and they know what to do (for or against). I am not mudslinging here. and I am sorry that I came accross as corrupt, I was only doing what I could. I am sorry that I have caused you distaste with me. I had no perrogitives in mind other than to get results. --MJHankel 03:45, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
While the wording is hard for me to understand, I will take you at your word that the initial attempts were not aimed at swaying the vote. I sincerely hope that your efforts to contact others caught had been planned in advance and not after pointed out here. If you do attempt to contact others about future AfDs, I strongly encourage you to avoid any wording that can be interpreted as encouraging votes exclusively in one direction. Alansohn 03:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - your search was for 'Trinity Christian High School (2nd nomination)' so the lack of hits is not surprising. TerriersFan 02:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Uhh much more schools are being deleted in AFD than kept now that I see, precedent has changed, as for me, No Vote as I was vote stacked here. Jaranda wat's sup 02:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Automatic notability of schools is not, as far as I am aware, policy or even an official guideline. It's just an argument that keeps getting trotted out, but it has never been formally agreed upon. Thus, I'd say it's an invalid argument. JulesH 13:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No but that isn't a reason for keeping. Jaranda wat's sup 02:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
if the school is notable, then it should be kept (i see no other potential problems with the article). there is clearly much disagreement over what constitutes a school's being notable. in the absence of clear guidelines relating specifically to schools (as in many cases WP:ORG is very general and does not address the intricacies related to creating articles about schools), i find it justifiable to assert the school's notability based on its functioning existence, as, apparently, do a number of other editors. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 03:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment In absence of guidelines specific to schools, either WP:N or WP:ORG applies. What distinguishes a school from, say, a doctor's practice? Why should we treat one differently to the other? We certainly haven't agreed to do so, that is why there is no notability guideline that has consensus on schools. JulesH 13:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
reply what suggests that a school should apply to the same guidelines as a doctor's office? the two are highly different types of establishments. i would assert that the function of schools is more important and more adapted to being recorded in encyclopedic format than doctor's offices, although i don't think including doctor's offices would be a significant violation of notability guidelines either. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 23:52, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes,2 Notable college or professional athletes has sometimes been considered enough for a school to be N. and,
Yes, it is a lot better than some of the other school articles. There are zero out-of-state references. With all due respect to the Texans among us, I do not think this is enough,.
I do not think a nom after a year is excessive. Standards for N schools have changed over that period. (and nobody has asked me to come here) DGG 05:33, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A) For the most part, the article in its current version meets the Wikipedia:Attribution policy by refraining from original research and using secondary resources. The only unsourced statement is that school opened in '79 but noone graduated until '91.
B) From the Wikipedia:Notability guideline: "Notable is defined as 'worthy of being noted' or 'attracting notice', but is not synonymous with 'fame' or 'importance'." . The school attracted the notice of various newspapers when it won state athletic championships, and the article now references these news stories. The national level of fame or importance the school earned by winning these awards does not grant or remove notability as because notability "is not measured by editors’ subjective judgment."
C) The Wikipedia:Places of local interest essay states that if a place is not notable to stand on its own, it should merge into its city article (Lubbock, Texas in this case). The resulting merge would cause an imbalance of information on Trinity Christian High compared to other schools in the education section.
Those reasons being said, the article was indeed unreferenced and stub-length at the time the deletion notice was posted (view that revision), and would have qualified for merge or deletion. Schools should be held to the same notability requirements as other places unless a guideline or essay for schools is formed to state otherwise. (If such a guideline or essay does exist, please let me know.) - fmmarianicolon | Talk 20:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is isn't a case of "What about X" (WP:WAX), but what are the objective criteria for including or excluding a school. Explain (here or elsewhere), what your criteria are. It's simply not helpful to write: some, but not all without suggesting some objective criteria that can be applied to the current case, the next case, and the next case. And, yes, I think that all 5,000 secondary schools in the UK could and ought to have a well-written Wikipedia article. patsw 22:36, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm going to write a userspace essay on this soon (and I'll inform you on your talk page), but I would say that some reasons for notability would be (a) excellent performance, abhove and beyond what would be expected (b) alternatively, very poor performance involving the threat of closure, etc (c) some notoriety not related to education, which produces secondary sources (d) A long and easily notable history. (There are probably more). I don't think you can possibly create well-written WP articles on all high/secondary schools, without them merely being clones of each other. On a personal note, my daughter's school isn't notable in the slightest. I'd love to write an article on it, but it'd just end up like the one I linked above. EliminatorJR Talk 00:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • To explain my inclusion of WP:WAX, the appropriate link for inherited notability doesn't exist - and I can't seem to create a wikipediaspace link for the redirect. =( I just needed a reference - note the instruction to scroll down. --Dennisthe2 23:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:24, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Robin Raven[edit]

Robin Raven (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

1) Doesn't meet Wikipedia:Notability_(people) guidelines for entertainers. 2) NPOV/Subjective 3) Seems to be written by subject or associate / Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest / Wikipedia:Autobiography 4) Some links mismatch (e.g., name of link is linked to seemingly unrelated article to avoid red linking?) Delete Touchdown Turnaround 01:11, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Updated to add -- this article was deleted once before according to the logs. Touchdown Turnaround 02:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I hope that you will all take note of my comments here, and decide your votes accordingly. — Eric Herboso 19:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was nomination withdrawn. MER-C 08:54, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Community of practice[edit]

Community of practice (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Another incoherent article created by Stevenson-Perez (talk · contribs). Other users have improved the article somewhat, but I still don't see its value for Wikipedia. See also: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Scientific Community of Practice Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Scientific value Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Meaning (scientific) Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Stevenson-Perez (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log) -- Chris 73 | Talk 01:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:24, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Notable series finales[edit]

Notable series finales (1960s-1970s) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
Notable series finales (1980s) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Notable series finales (2000s) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Notable animated series finales (1980s) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Notable animated series finales (1990s) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Notable animated series finales (2000s) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Well, here's a mass nomination. I've discovered while reading Series finale that the article Notable series finales (1990s) has been deleted through this AfD back in January. But it's obvious that the article was just part of a series, and it doesn't make much sense to delete the one and keep the others (or vice versa), and so I had the choice to either go to deletion review with the the deleted article, or nominate the other articles for deletion. I chose to do the latter, because right now those articles don't cover notable series finales, they simply cover all series finales from that time. I think we should merge these articles into one article, List of notable series finales, that only cover the notable series finales, and not all of them. Now we're going to have a lot of fun while discussing which series finale is notable and which isn't, but I think that it's possible to create a few criteria for inclusion (For example: having multiple emmy nominations (Everyone's Waiting), or being praised/noted by well known critics (All Good Things..., I'm sure some sources can be found). --Conti| 01:16, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep, renaming or merging is at editors' discretion. Seraphimblade Talk to me 07:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Human rights in pre-Saddam Iraq[edit]

Human rights in pre-Saddam Iraq (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

No referenced material in this article. Human rights in Iraq is a better idea. DavidYork71 07:35, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached
 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel Bryant 01:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Human rights in Iraq as above. Manik Raina 03:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep due to work put in by author Manik Raina

*Merge: With Human rights in Iraq until sufficient information can be found that a separate article would be needed. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 06:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete without prejudice to recreation As it stands, this is a pathetic POV stub. Any article that discusses human rights in pre-Saddam Iraq without mentioning the Simele massacre, for instance, is seriously under-researched. Somebody who actually knows something about the history of Iraq should rewrite this in a user sandbox then recreate the article when it's comprehensive. Until that ever happens, delete. --Folantin 08:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Changed vote to keep Since Noroton has made good faith efforts to improve this article, I believe it is salvageable. It still has large holes - the 1933 massacre of Assyrians by the Iraqi Army was a major event - but these can be plugged. --Folantin 19:46, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

RaveenS 18:54, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Change to Keep - editor has significantly improved this article and demonstrated a willingness to do further work on it. StuartDouglas 09:43, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - user has gone to great lengths to improve the article and seems to be extremely willing to improve it further. --pIrish 01:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm very open to a main article instead of a disambiguation page, but I don't have the time to work on it any time soon. A main article could have sections on various ethnic groups and how they've fared in terms of human rights, as well as a chronological overview. But I think the period article "pre-Saddam" has so much meat to it that we shouldn't cut it down to fit into a larger article.Noroton 03:07, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. Seraphimblade Talk to me 02:00, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Ripple (newspaper)[edit]

The Ripple (newspaper) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

A couple of sources, neither of which is primarily about this student newspaper. A lot of original research. Copious vanity namechecks. And that is about it. Guy (Help!) 01:52, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, this page serves no useful purpose except for people to boost their egos and others to criticise a perfectly good student newspaper.

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The result was speedy deleted by ChrisGriswold[8]. Michaelas10Respect my authoritah 16:01, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ranger Up[edit]

Ranger Up (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete Unsourced article on non-notable company; earlier prod removed by article's creator UnitedStatesian 02:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:30, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Religious Persecution in the Spanish Civil War[edit]

Religious Persecution in the Spanish Civil War (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)} – (View AfD)

POV Fork based on one-sided rendition of events that are overripe with propaganda from multiple biased sources. Cberlet 02:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The article deals with the persecution on both sides of the conflict, and it happens that the most flagrant was on the losing side of the conflict.

The article is still under construction and so I am wondering if the deletionists haven't jumped the gun here. Out of fairness and scholarship, shouldn't the article be finished?

Finally, truth is the truth. This presecution is probably the major reason why the Republic lost the war. The atrocities were so broadcast around the civilized world, and caused such an abhorrent reaction, that ONE country, Mexico, rallied to the Republic at the time of the rising.

I realized that the article may offend the political sensibilities of many, but often the truth hurts.

Here is the removal notice that was done without notice to me or by posting.

(cur) (last) 17:10, 11 February 2007 Onofre Bouvila (Talk | contribs) (I removed the section "Anti Relgious Atrocities in Republican Spain". It was approached in a very biased way, mentioning random examples, and this subject is already treated in the article.)

That was why I expanded the article and created its own area.

GenghisTheHun 21:19, 19 March 2007 (UTC)GenghisTheHun[reply]

Hugh Purcell, The Spanish Civil War speaking of Hugh Thomas's work, p. 122 "This is generally considered the fairest and most comprehensive history of the Spanish Civil War, in English."


GenghisTheHun 21:52, 19 March 2007 (UTC)GenghistTheHun[reply]


I feel that the deletionist attack Thomas for being biased against the Republic. If that is so, why was his work banned in Franco Spain until Franco died?

I would also cite Sheelagh Elwood in the Historical Association Studies book, The Spanish Civil War. On p. 122 we find this comment about Thomas's book, "[Names author and work]is packed with detailed information, but its density and lenght may be a daunting project fir relative newcomers to the subject." The author continues about the Spanish edition. Thomas' book, published in 1961, has gone through revisions in 1965, 1977, 1986, and 2001. Lord Thomas is now probably in his eighties and perhaps we have seen the last of his revisions. That is a terrible loss to the historical community especially now with the work being done in the Soviet Archives. His expert eye on the Spanish material found there would be beneficial to all concerned.

To delete this article based on the assertion that Hugh Thomas is biased is akin to book burning, internet style. It is quite obvious that those who attack Lord Thomas, have not read the book.

GenghisTheHun 22:05, 19 March 2007 (UTC)GenghisTheHun[reply]


I inadvertely removed this Keep Comment from another editor

I inadvertly removed this keep comment. I copied it and inserted here. My apologies.

- *Keep - all material seems properly sourced, and if some editors have POV concerns that is not the reason to delete the article but to expand it. -- Vision Thing -- 21:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GenghisTheHun 22:13, 19 March 2007 (UTC)GenghisTheHun[reply]


I refer the deletionists to Don Lawson, The Abraham Lincoln Brigade, Americans Fighting Fascism in the Spanish Civil War, (1989) where he states about Lord Thomas, p. 146. "Every writer, including this one, who has written anything on the Spanish Civil War, is indebted to historian Hugh Thomas. His The Spanish Civil War, [publisher omitted} was first published in 1961 and was throughly revised and updated in 1977. It is unquestionably the definitive book on the war and so far as I have been able to determine, misses no important wartime fact or detail, large or small. But I would hesitate to recommend the Thomas book to a young reader, except an extremely advanced one, because it is so highly detailed."

I recognize that a person who is not familiar with the subject would find Thomas a large undertaking.

GenghisTheHun 22:25, 19 March 2007 (UTC)GenghisTheHun[reply]

A new and exciting work that I am just finishing reading is Gerald Howson, Arms for Spain, The Untold Story of the Spanish Civil War (1998). On page 249, Howson notes Hugh Thomas' work as "great." Howson's work, by the way, is quite revolutionary. He has used the recent access to Polish and Soviet archives in his book and reviewed actual inventories and lists of the ships that carried arms to the Republic and also was able to get copies of some of the actual arms purchases. I will need to update my "Foreign Intervention" article with the new information.

GenghisTheHun 23:30, 19 March 2007 (UTC)GenghisTheHun[reply]


As all the learned experts on the history of the Spanish Civil War know, Herbert Mathews of the New York Times covered the war from the Republican side during the entire period of 1936-1939. An interesting anecdote, that Mathews does not cite in his book, is that Mathews and Ernest Hemingway went in with the troops when the Republic captured Teruel in 1937-38. This intrepid pair actually were at the fall of the governor's headquarters where the troops fought each other from different levels of the building firing at each other through holes in the floor.

In any event, Mathews in his work, Half of Spain Died, A Reappraisal of the Spanish Civil War (1973), states on page 104, "The judgment of the British scholar, Hugh Thomas, whose work is as authoratative and objective as any history of the war can be...." Mathews, an eyewitness to the war, cites Thomas twenty-four times in the index to the book and praises it in other passages. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GenghisTheHun (talkcontribs) 23:46, 19 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]


GenghisTheHun 23:51, 19 March 2007 (UTC)GenghisTheHun[reply]

Cecil Eby has written at least two books on the war. I have them both, but I only purchased the second book last week and I haven't had time to read it. In his work on the International Brigade, Between the Bullet and the Lie, American Volunteers in the Spanish Civil War, Eby states on p. 323 "The best general study of the Spanish Civil War is Hugh Thomas' The Spanish Civil War.... His second book that I have not yet had a chance to read, is The Siege of the Alcazar. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GenghisTheHun (talkcontribs) 23:57, 19 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

GenghisTheHun 00:09, 20 March 2007 (UTC)GenghisTheHun[reply]


I have an extensive library on the Spanish Civil War and started to review it when I started working on the various articles and edits that I have done on this site. If anyone wants more citations, I shall provide them.

I have no illusions that I am going to convince anyone. I am quite familiar with academic politics and I have discovered in my short time on Wikipedia, about 4-5 weeks, that the politics of this site are quite similar. There is a huge "Old Boy" network and lots of point of view politics here. There appears to be a large happy group that sends valentines to each other and pin medals on each other's user page. Hilarious.

I had hoped for better but at my age, I should have known better. Some editor posts a delete and immediately we have about half a dozen deletes from people who obviously have never read much about the Spanish Civil War. I doubt few of them ever cracked the cover of Hugh Thomas' work or Professor Jackson or Gerald Brennan or anyone else.

I liken this to a modern bonfire of knowledge that Savonarola or Dr. Goebbels would have throughly approved. You can do this virtual burning of knowledge, but I would be hopeful that truth and knowledge would somehow carry through.

GenghisTheHun 00:23, 20 March 2007 (UTC)GenghisTheHun[reply]

This does not necessarily mean it is the best source for specialized aspects. All the references mentioned come from a very few pages of the book, so they must have been simply listed, rather than discussed. There should be a very large number of specialized academic and general interest articles on the subject, and I think it would be reasonable to insist that individual incidents be sourced and to more than this single textbook.
Maybe this should just be called "The Spanish Civil War according to 4 pages of Hugh Thomas' scholarship". In any case, the tone of my comment was not constructive. I think that this article could be workable, but it doesn't seem balanced as is. Without balance, I can see why people want it deleted. Smmurphy(Talk) 18:17, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Riotboy81 21:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yeah, Hugh Thomas and the tale of the atrocities is good enough for Enclyclopaedia Britannica[edit]

I have a 1967 Set of Enclyclopaedia Britannica and looked up this controversy. No article in that work exists on the Spanish Civil War, but in the general article, Spain, history, volume 20, page 1108, we find this quotation:

"On both sides the war was marked, especially in the early stages, by a ruthlessness that astounded the world. Churches were burned and desecrated and public religious observances forbidden throughout Republican Spain; ten bishops, and many thousands of priests, religious and devout members of the laity were murdered in cold blood, for no political activity or crime."

Also in the bibliography, p. 1116, as authority for the 19th and 20th Centuries, yep, there is "H. S. Thomas, The Spanish Civil War New York (1961)." Another of my sources, Professor Jackson is also noted in the citation.

Let's examine the question of criticism of "weasel words," so beloved by certain editors of this august web site. The good gray Britannica staff and editors approved these words in that short quotation: "ruthlessness," "astounded," "desecrated," "murdered," "cold blood," and perhaps we could argue about a couple more.

This language is so good that I plan to include it in the article if I can get it by the politburo.

GenghisTheHun 14:46, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In current Britannica's article on Spanish Civil War [9] Hugh Thomas and his The Spanish Civil War are still listed in Additional Reading. -- Vision Thing -- 20:13, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Startling Revelation[edit]

I forgot to respond to the criticism that the article relies heavily on Hugh Thomas. I hate to make this startling revelation to that obviously erudite comment, but the bulk of the literature on the Spanish Civil War is in SPANISH. General histories in English are harder to find.

In any event, after Franco died, and the ban against Thomas' book was lifted in Spain, it was translated into Spanish, and is now a Spanish standard on the conflict.

GenghisTheHun 14:50, 21 March 2007 (UTC)GenghisTheHun[reply]


n current Britannica's article on Spanish Civil War [10] Hugh Thomas and his The Spanish Civil War are still listed in Additional Reading. -- Vision Thing -- 20:13, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GenghisTheHun 20:18, 21 March 2007 (UTC)GenghisTheHun[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:31, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pilot-Gilmore Girls[edit]

Pilot-Gilmore Girls (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article duplicates the purpose of Pilot (Gilmore Girls) but not the content. Since this is nearly worthless and orphaned, seems like the better one to delete. As far as I can tell, this doesn't meet a speedy criterion, although it seems like it should; sorry if it's my mistake. Deltopia 02:40, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete by Prodego as CSD G12. WjBscribe 03:38, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Adam Absinthe[edit]

Adam Absinthe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Article was written as: Self-promotion. Seraphim Whipp 02:48, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Seraphimblade Talk to me 02:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of sports team names and mascots of European origin[edit]

List of sports team names and mascots of European origin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Fails WP:NOT#INFO (Wikipedia is not a collection of indiscriminate information. It may arguably be original research also. Note: please place this on lists-related deletions. YechielMan 03:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, there exists an ongoing controversy surrounding Native American sports team names (and possibly other Indigenous peoples, I'm not certain) that makes that list have a purpose.. Citicat 03:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Redirect to Saving Private Ryan. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 03:42, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Ramelle[edit]

Battle of Ramelle (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

1) this is an article about a single scene from a movie and has no notability on it's own. 2) the 'battle' is entirely fictional and does not exist outside of the movie in question 3) the movie has its own article. 4) this is basically a line-by-line novelization of the movie scene and as such constitutes a copyright violation. --Lepeu1999 03:09, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Seraphimblade Talk to me 10:21, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of streets in Hamilton, Ontario[edit]

List of streets in Hamilton, Ontario (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

WP:NOT#INFO. I return to my favorite AFD argument, and one of the first I ever used on these pages: if we had an article on every city and town about all its roads and streets, the size of Wikipedia would spiral out of control. If we won't have them all, we should not have any. YechielMan 03:13, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I actually saw a section of an article once which was just a directory of every mailbox in the area, I guess whoever added them thought it would be useful if you were logged onto Wikipedia and suddenly needed to post a letter, but didn't know where to go Croxley 21:52, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Keep. Cbrown1023 talk 00:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fictional Antichrists[edit]

Fictional Antichrists (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The entire list is unsourced speculation, does not appear fixable. Jay32183 04:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not to make an issue of this (I hope), but isn't the problem with that article that the entries are speculation? Entries in this list can be limited to those that are specifically mentioned as being the Antichrist. If you want to say the list has no encyclopedia value I'll understand the point (although I feel otherwise) Citicat 17:45, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The term Antichrist does not have a clear, objective definition. "List of fictional characters to be called Antichrists" would not be an encyclopedic list. The problem with this list is that it cannot be sourced properly because some one has to make a judgement call. Jay32183 17:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not a Christian, but isn't the Antichrist part of Armageddon? At least in Good Omens Adam is clearly referred to as the Antichrist, the son of the Devil, and necessary to bring on the final battle between good and evil. Someone correct be if I'm wrong. Citicat 03:44, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That isn't how our own article on Antichrist defines it. The list does not have a clearly defined criteria for inclusion, and that's where the problem is coming from. There's no clear definition so people have to make judgement calls, and you can't source a judgement call. Jay32183 04:05, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. Daniel Bryant 07:00, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Wonder Girls[edit]

The Wonder Girls (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The creator of the article has removed three times, without comment, notability and reference tags. There are no sources for any of the information in the article. Fails WP:ATT and possibly fails WP:MUSIC. janejellyroll 04:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Daniel Bryant 02:34, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nuh Ha Mim Keller[edit]

Nuh Ha Mim Keller (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Fails notability. Article is incompatable with WP:BIO because of the complete lack of reliable secondary sources. Not to mention the article is completely WP:OR. Sefringle 04:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure. In the first 15 pages of the google search, I found none.--Sefringle 07:53, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what you mean by secondary sources but the book is which I mentioned is unique and he's the author and the introduction is pretty much from the book. Can you elaborate on what you mean by secondary? --Nkv 06:56, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Baltimore crime 2007[edit]

Baltimore crime 2007 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Anon IP removed prod tag. This is a non-notable subject, this is indiscriminate information, and this is largely just a collection of news reports. No need to merge — all notable information is already at Baltimore#Crime. No need to redirect — title is too specific for anyone to search for. — Rebelguys2 talk 05:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:33, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Forest Farming - The Ecosystem Approach to Forest Management[edit]

Forest Farming - The Ecosystem Approach to Forest Management (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Content is original research; while the essay looks great, it, in effect, violates WP:NOR, and as such should be deleted in its present form --Mhking 05:42, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

from- ====User Talk: Forest Farming - The Ecosystem Approach to Forest Management==== This is not vandalism, please read as supporting documentation for the article.


Here is an additional forest farm (yes, another one of "US") website to check out: http//www.highdesertnet.com/morninghill/



There are quite a few forest farmers out here and we have a forest farm association. Following is a letter by Orville camp exerpt from The Forest Farm Management Journal: (journal is hardcopy only, not available online at present.

The forest management controversy[edit]

Dear Forest Manager,

Management of our forests has become one of the most controversial issues of this century. Many species are now extinct or in danger of becoming so. The controversial spotted owl, for example, is only one of many species dependent on ancient forests which are rap­ idly being eliminated. People are concerned. Our social and eco­ nomic well-being is at stake.

Forest management practices continue to deplete our forests. As a result, opposition to these practices has become intense. Many are desperately working to save what little remains of the ancient forests by having them placed into wilderness for future generations.

On one side the traditionalists want to continue converting forests into tree farms. On the other side, environmentalists want all of the forests preserved. While both may serve some immediate needs, neither seem to have a long term solution on how to manage and sustain the forest ecosystem so that it can continue to provide our many dif­ ferent needs.

Most timber management pro­ grams, for short term economic rea­ sons, are based on the clearcut con­ cept. Clearcuts are typically done in one or two steps. They are called "clearcuts" if everything is removed in one step, "seed tree cutting," "shel­ terwood cutting," or "selective cutting" if done in two or more steps.

Who do you know who's able to sustain either the forest or himself using clearcutting practices? The truth is, probably no one. Most businesses keep track of what is happening to their "net worth" as a measure of their success. However, many foresters prescribe clearcutting which reduces the net worth of that forest to zero. Even the value of the land itself is often re­ duced because of the reduction in potential for productivity. They then try to measure their success by the number of trees they plant. Regard­ less of how many trees planted, or survival success, the net worth of that forest is still relatively close to zero. If the forest was one of old growth, it will be several hundred years at best before the some values can be ob­ tained.

The main cause of the management problem is a result of not recog­ nizing the forest as an ecosystem of all species and ages where each are dependent on the other in some way as we are upon them. This body of living things also has a natural system of checks and balances which keeps it healthy. The sec­ ond cause of the problem, as a result of the above, is in failing to select the right individuals for har­ vest so that all species' needs can continue to be met.

Proposed solutions to forest management problems typically call for either dividing it up, or eliminating unwanted parts, to serve special interests .. Since all parts of the forest ecosystem are interconnected and interdependent, neither of these solutions are good ones.

There is now an alternative for those who support management of the forest as an ecosystem. Mid­ way between just growing and har­ vesting trees, on one hand, and maintaining a do-not-touch wilderness on the other, the Forest Farm Association offers a new meaning to the term forestry. The Forest Farm Association is comprised of forest managers who support and practice a middle-of-the-road approach.

If you are interested in practicing forest management in an environmen­tally sound manner, or want to learn more about it and also help educate others, please join the Forest Farm Association. Your contribution is needed and very much appreciated.

Sincerely, Orville Camp

submitted User: jeanniekendrickJeannie kendrick 21:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:35, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

BitTorrent index comparison[edit]

BitTorrent index comparison (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Not encyclopedic, completely unsourced, full of redundancies, generally it's a mess. Painezor TC 06:07, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This article was NOT discussed in the AfD for Comparison of BitTorrent software. Do not try to bolster your argument with blatant lies. -Painezor TC 23:13, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I have asked them if they did consider both pages, or if it was an oversight that both pages were nominated on the same AfD page. hopefully they will clarify things for us. I am sorry if I misinterpreted the keep decision. --Tim 04:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Sounds good if you want to check out the Top 100 and add what is missing that would be great --Tim 20:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment All information was obtained without membership. --Tim 18:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Seriously this topic accounts for 1/3 of all internet traffic and people want to delete it? To me it seems like an attempt to obfuscate on the misguided hope that protection will be found in doing so.--Tim 04:43, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:35, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kicks Hawaii[edit]

Kicks Hawaii (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

non-notable store, possible advertising Stlemur 06:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete and redirect. Daniel Bryant 07:01, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cockring[edit]

Cockring (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Blatant advert for a non-notable nightclub, with little or no salvageable content once non-neutral statements removed. Orderinchaos78 06:16, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete. - Bobet 17:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Timpuyog Organization[edit]

Timpuyog Organization (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Blatantly non-notable Stlemur 06:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:37, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Captain Macdougall[edit]

Unreferenced bio of a living person with negative facts, possibly hoax Alex Bakharev 06:36, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep. Cbrown1023 talk 00:53, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Brian Townsend[edit]

Brian Townsend (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Professional poker player. Speedy deletions were overturned on review, so the discussion now moves here. Procedural nomination, I have no opinion. ~ trialsanderrors 06:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Keep: Are you guys joking, this guy is at the forefront of one of the most popular games in the world. Just because some people do not consider someone or somthing important doesnt mean others dont. He is one of the biggest winners in online poker history and tons of people would love to know more about him due to his HSP appearance.

Keep Also Phil Ivey can play Brian 300/600 NL HU whenever he wants. I'm sure that is enough money for Phil, so maybe he's not playing because Brian is good.

Keep Also Otto Phil Ivey can play Brian HU for 60k on Full Tilt Poker whenever he wants, there is a reason he rarely does. If you delete Brian's entry there are several other entries that should be deleted.

Keep Whether I consider basketball or chess to be notable activities is not important, what is important is that a substantial number of people do. The online poker community is quite large, and Brian Townsend is one of the most well-known online poker pros.MikeThicke

Keep If you don't know that this is one of the biggest names in online poker, then you should not be voting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DBS2007 (talk • contribs)

Note: User was just created, and only contribution was this vote. Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) (E-mail me) 23:49, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Additional note: Lot of single use accounts here. I smell voting fraud. Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) (E-mail me) 23:51, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:39, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Southern mafia[edit]

Southern mafia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete Original research. Mere use of a term in print does not remove the WP:NOR issue. Avi 07:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Note recent text reduction to remove OR. --MBHiii 18:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - "Every group of criminals in America..." very likely true, but it's also become a journalistic term for certain Congressmen, and a rap group has taken the name, all indicating a special meaning to the culture, in general, of the US. --MBHiii 18:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Two sources deleted (originally included for implied reference), two added, now all specifically use "Southern mafia" in the senses defined. --MBHiii 18:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - See all other comments, and recent edit history tags. --MBHiii 18:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - See all other comments, and recent edit history tags. --MBHiii 18:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Save it - note changes to text and sourcing to address OR; can be expanded as more sources appear. --MBHiii 15:49, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

appears to violate? How does what's there, now, violate "Although everything in Wikipedia must be attributable, in practice not all material is attributed. Editors should provide attribution for quotations and for any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged"? 216.77.231.87 17:41, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Reply you've picked a somewhat vague sentence out of WP:ATT, please note some of the more concrete language under it's subsections, such as Wikipedia articles must be based on reliable sources. The article has indeed been improved so far, but some of the footnotes are still highly questionable e.g. this blog (blogs are not peer reviewed and so are rarely reliable sources) or this book review which only demonstrates that the reviewer (on a site I'm not familiar with) uses the term Southern Mafia, not even that the book itself uses that term. Also at this point, the article is also looking like a dictionary definition-Markeer 21:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note further additions of links to related topics in Wikipedia. W.r.t. "reliable sources" I don't want to rely on blogs, but if one wants to show a term used journalistically then blogs and reviews should be allowed (not, of course, to the exclusion of other sources). Also, I note from your Wikilink "the more people engaged in checking facts, analyzing legal issues, and scrutinizing the writing, the more reliable the publication." To some extent, any publisher must consider all these issues before allowing a review, or letter to the editor, onto his pages. BTW (not that I'm claimimg to know) how do you know the book doesn't use the term?
Also, about that review in the Texas Observer, a biweekly magazine, from their website "Our Vision: The Texas Observer writes about issues ignored or underreported in the mainstream press. Our goal is to cover stories crucial to the public interest and to provoke dialogue that promotes democratic participation and open government, in pursuit of a vision of Texas where education, justice and material progress are available to all." ... "The New York Times, Harper’s, 60 Minutes, 20/20, and ABC News have followed the lead of Texas Observer stories." ... seems a very reliable publication. --MBHiii 00:19, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment note recently added specifications to definition. Do you or any of the other deletionists ever change your vote in response to edits after the AfD begins? --MBHiii 12:56, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - why yes, I do. When they are constructive edits that actually resolve the problems that have been brought up. Your edit really hasn't satisfied that, and I will explain to you why. If you haven't read WP:ATT in detail please do, but for starters, pay attention to the line that states The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is whether material is attributable to a reliable published source, not whether it is true. The problem with the sources in this article (as well as the now-deleted Unholy Alliance) is that they are almost exclusively quotations of someone using the term Southern Mafia without actually telling us what the southern mafia is. Your article then goes on to use these various examples of the word use to support a conclusion - but that is a violation of WP:SYN. Wikipedia cannot rely on articles of this nature that basically say "This person has been called a member of the Southern Mafia, and so has this person, therefore the Southern Mafia can be defined as ..." What you really need is a source that explicitly tells us "The Southern Mafia can be defined as ..." You have one and only one source that does that - but the problem with that is that it is from a blog and not a reliable source. Again, read up on WP:RS for a more clear picture of what a reliable source is, and why a blog is not. Finally, if you do find reliable sources to cite on the subject, make sure that you can expand the article beyond a mere definition, else it will not pass WP:DICDEF.
Honestly, no one here has any kind of vendetta against you or your articles, we merely have a problem with articles that do not pass inclusion criteria. I am certain you are very well intentioned in wanting to contribute to the project with these articles of local significance that you feel are underrepresented here, and we all appreciate your desire to contribute. Unfortunately Wikipedia is not a vehicle for the advancement of new thoughts and ideas - there are plenty of other outlets for those kinds of things. Once an idea has become established, studied and verified, that is when it belongs here. Arkyan 15:36, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Reply Can't speak for anyone else, but I know I've changed my opinion on several articles up for AfD if they've been improved. The problem with this article (in my opinion) is that while it's sourcing has indeed been improved (with the addition of the Texas Observer link added to the decent Scarfone link), there are still serious issues. One is that pretty much all of the other footnotes should be removed as they do not add any verifiable benefit to the article that I can see (all they seem to do is show the authors of this article didn't make the term up, which is covered by the two more acceptable sources, and that the term is used sometimes in the music industry, which oddly isn't mentioned in the article itself).
Unfortunately while the sourcing has somewhat improved, the removal of basically all of the text leaves this with other problems that I see. One is it now appears to be just a dictionary definition as mentioned already, but the sparsity also leaves two other issues: 1) that there is no assertion or evidence that the term is particularly notable, 2) that from what I've seen so far, the phrase seems to clearly be a neoligism.
Shorter answer: There may well be an article to be found on this phrase, my issue is that so far all we have is a weakly sourced dicdef of a neoligism. My apologies if I sound overly blunt about this, just trying to answer your question about changes in votes and why mine at least hasn't changed so far. -Markeer 16:01, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, mulling, learning, thanks for the lengthy replies. --MBHiii 17:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Dispite adding quotations to show usage of the phrase (most taken from various book and movie reviews), the article remains little more than a Dictionary Definition per WP:DICDEF. Also, without a reliable source to tie the disperate usages together it remains an uncited OR synthesis per WP:ATT. The article needs a reliable source that discusses what the "Southern Mafia" is, where it came from and how it has developed over time. Blueboar 14:41, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What? Are you saying that a Wikipedia article showing disperate (sic) usages, that are each cited or sourced, cannot stand alone without another citation or source showing all those same disparate usages? Where does it say that? --MBHiii 16:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Not when they are being used to make a point... It says it at the WP:SYNT section of WP:ATT and is further highlighted in a foot note in that section where it says: Jimmy Wales has discussed the problem of unpublished syntheses of existing material, stating: "Some who completely understand why Wikipedia ought not create novel theories of physics by citing the results of experiments and so on and synthesizing them into something new, may fail to see how the same thing applies to history." (Wales, Jimmy. "Original research", December 6, 2004) Blueboar 18:02, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Where? Disparate means different and not related. I am NOT creating novel theories or synthesizing anything. Where do you get that? What, precisely, is synthesized? If you can't answer this, change your vote. --MBHiii 18:39, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would be happy to change my vote ... if the concerns that have been raised by myself and others were actually addressed in the article. So far they have not. A synthesis occurs when you place two seperate ideas together so that they form a conclusion, whether stated outright or implied. In one sentence you talk about "traditional and ongoing criminal enterprise" and "organized crime". In the next you mention "conservative Congressmen from the South working together for a shared purpose". The clear implication to the reader is that that criminal activity and conservative congressmen have a connection. Whether this is "true" or not does not matter, we (as editors) can not make these connections ourselves... we need to cite reliable secondary sources that make such connections for us. Blueboar 19:59, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
First, "separate" like "disparate" is spelled with an "a" in the middle. Second, you may not infer something that is not explicitly implied. That's a real synthesis on your part! As in any dictionary or encyclopedia, I am simply listing separate and disparate uses of the term. If they need to be more physically separated on the page (say, Usage#1, then Usage#2), just do it. Apart from that, what else is there? --MBHiii 20:21, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Suppose someone thinks that a new Ford Motor Company advertising campaign has hidden racist messgages in it.
They go online and find a few books/magazines that explain what subliminal messages are and what racism is defined as.
Then they go and find a summary of the ad campaign.
They write an article explaining their ideas and citing their sources.
However, none of their sources explicitly states that the ad campaign is racist, its all done by inferring facts based on the cited source material.
Therefore, although the article is well cited, it is still OR.
Based on the above debate, this seems to be the problem here. Mr.Z-mantalk¢Review! 21:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that seems to be the problem, but where? Criminals and politcians that are not linked, remain so forever, until they are linked in some clear way. Mentioning two thoughts on the same page does not link them, other than, in this case, as separate and disparate uses of the same term. You all should stop imputing things that aren't there. --MBHiii 21:56, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And you shouldn't add text to my comments. What I was trying to explain is that an article can be OR even if you give sources. The sources need to explicitly say what you say in the article. Many of the sources on the article only mention the Southern Mafia, in popular culture. I see nothing that connects "a traditional and ongoing criminal enterprise" to "The Southern Mafia in the Senate." I wasn't comparing your article to an ad campaign, that was merely an example. Mr.Z-mantalk¢Review! 00:08, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note, multiple literary uses are documented here, going back 14 years to 1993. Scarfone seems to use "Dixie-Mafia" and "Southern Mafia" interchangeably (online). Granting that Dixie Mafia is a synonym, it is absolutely spelled out and nailed down by Swearingen and Lee, in 1990 (also online). --MBHiii 22:07, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
All of which makes for a wonderful Wiktionary entry... but not a Wikipedia article.Blueboar 22:50, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"Literary uses" = the words "Southern" and "mafia" are used in conjunction in books and magazines. What is needed is a reason that these two words belong next to each other for some specific reason. As it is, you just have a collection of referenced occasions that the words have been put next to each other. You need to show that the words next to each other have meaning beyond what the two words mean alone. There isn't any one specific group here that is called the Southern mafia (except groups that also go by other names?). In fact, each reference in the article weakens the case that an article is needed, as most of them are talking about a different thing. Smmurphy(Talk) 02:06, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note, redirect to Dixie Mafia which needs the references. --MBHiii 23:56, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Objection - I really have to object to redirecting the article the way you did ... Perhaps I have misinterpreted your motivations, but redirecting an article that is in the middle of an AfD debate comes across as a back handed attempt to save the material in violation of the process ... which in turn comes across as a POV ploy. All this redirect does is shift the problem to another article. The material is still a dicdef and is still a violation of WP:SYNT. Plus the article into which it was moved has it's own issues with lack of citation (ie it had none prior to your redirect). Blueboar 12:37, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Not true, it had a lack of citations tag and only one ref. (anti-snitching) all of which is astounding, since you added that tag (now gone). --216.77.231.87 14:13, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I agree with Blueboar that the redirect/merge mid-debate like that was inappropriate. Shunting the material over on to another article, regardless of how well that other article may or may not be established, is not the way to fix the problem. All it does is turn Dixie Mafia into a poor, unsourced article. I will assume good faith here and go under the impression that the merge was an honest attempt to fix the problem how you best saw fit, but please be aware that it very much appears to be an attempt to play a shell game by simply hiding the content elsewhere. Arkyan 16:16, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unsourced was exactly its condition until all the references, specific to Dixe Mafia, were added.

W.r.t. the SYN issue, "comparing and contrasting" are stock in trade for this kind of writing, and a separate and disparate use is certainly a contrast worth noting. That's all. --MBHiii 16:36, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

MBHiii, This really isn't the forum to explain how WP:SYNT works... I will respond on your talk page and try to explain further. Blueboar 17:59, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to WP:SYN, "that precise analysis (A+B=C expressed by the author) must have been published by a reliable source in relation to the topic before it can be published in Wikipedia."

In the Smith and Jones case, the author analyzed what Jones did (A) in light of some standard the author chose (B) to assert Smith may have been wrong about Jones (C) without citing a souce who agrees with the analysis. He takes A from one source, B from another, and asserts C on his own.

But here, there is no "Conclusion C." What are you saying are the A+B=C? If you assert I imply C, first of all that's not in WP:SYN, and if you do so on the basis of two different meanings of a term sitting on the same page, you'd better not read any dictionaries, your head might explode from possibilities.

Finally, there is nothing I "say in the article ... that connects a traditional and ongoing criminal enterprise to The Southern Mafia in the Senate." - Mr.Z-man(above) It's you, making it up.

Note, wording changes to be less of a DICDEF and focus more on the two, separated subjects - no HOAX. --MBHiii 03:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Update - With recent changes to the article, especially re-paragraphing, SYN is indeed much less of an issue. Unfortunately Dicdef still is an issue. The article basically says that a whole bunch of people have used this term, and then gives quotes of them doing so. It is an article about the use of the term "Southern Mafia" instead of an article about the concept of a "Southern Mafia". That is a DICDEF. Blueboar 12:32, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yet another update - note recent expansion and rewording to address remaining DICDEF issue. --MBHiii 13:29, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - First, the entire recent update is a cut-and-paste from your source which is a potential WP:COPYVIO. You can't do that. Second, it doesn't help address the DICDEF issues anyway. Third, the subject of that particular source is the "Dixie Mafia", not the "Southern Mafia". Your assertion in the article that "Scarfone uses the terms 'Dixie Mafia' and 'Southern Mafia' in the same work, therefore we can establish Dixie Mafia = Southern Mafia, and therefore any reference to Dixie Mafia can be treated as a reference to Southern Mafia" is the very core definition of WP:SYN.
I have to commend the effort you are putting in to trying to save this article. It shows a lot of editorial perseverance and dedication that are very good traits and I for one appreciate your enthusiasm. Wikipedia can always use such tenacious editing! Unfortunately I think the problem with this article is that the "Southern Mafia" simply does not exist beyond a mere term of use and just can't be expanded beyond a dicdef - nothing out there seems to support anything more than that, and no amount of sourcing in examples will cure that fact. The zeal you are showing in trying to find sources leads me to believe that if they were there, you would have found them by now. Arkyan 15:39, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Somewhere between SYN and COPYVIO must be room to write. Note, new rewriting so as not to cut-and-paste. Another more direct example of Dixie Mafia = Southern Mafia has been cited. It's amazing to me that, still, you don't believe it exists, so I added the case about which Hume wrote. --MBHiii 17:34, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

MBHiii, there is tons of room to write between SYN and COPYVIO ... Don't simply quote what the sources have said, write about what those sources have said. Also, I don't think anyone is saying that the Southern Mafia doesn't exist... We are simply saying that the way you are writing about it constitutes either OR or DICDEF. You keep going from one extreme to the other... without substantive statements discussing what the Southern Mafia is, where it came from, how it developed, etc. the article is nothing more than a dicdef stating that the term exists. When you try to add substance... you don't cite any reliable source to back up your substantive statements, which swings the article into violating NOR and SYN. Blueboar 18:33, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note 1. removal of key erroneously cited blog ref and extraneous quotations from fiction 2. addition of areas of operation and summaries of operation from key refs cited. BTW on the discussion page, you said "The issue is whether such a thing as a 'Southern Mafia' actually exists." I hope by now all doubt's removed by this article. --MBHiii 03:36, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Knacker's yard[edit]

Knacker's yard (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This page has been transwikied to Wiktionary. Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Richard 07:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy deleted by Xiner[13]. Michaelas10Respect my authoritah 20:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dr. Alli Muhammad[edit]

Dr. Alli Muhammad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Appears to fail notability and verifiability guidelines. Few ghits (or alternate spelling}, and sources are from myspace. NMChico24 07:36, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Talib_Talib

I do not agree that this article “Appears to fail notability and verifiability guidelines” or is not notable. The article refers to this person whether myspace or not. The link is audible and clear on what he believes and organizes according to his beliefs which are proven in his (audible-audio) lectures which are placed on myspace. Who said myspace was not notable or verifiable? Myspace is reliable. Myspace has rules and criteria and if someone writes a page on myspace and it is not correct, notable, verifiable, offensive or “libel” it will be removed from myspace. And myspace is also affiliated with CNN. Myspace is notable and verifiable(as everyone from political figures, political organizations, businesses to artist have a page there) and there are many “wikipedia pages” which uses or refers to myspace as a source. Do not be slanted in your view and misquote verifiability or notability. How notable and verifiable do you get, this guys actual lectures and speeches are on (audio) on myspace and the actual existence of his page and speeches (being there) is a very verifiable and notable source. I have also found flyers and postings of his lectures and speeches as well by going to the page. --Talib_Talib 19:24, 18 March 2007

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The result was redirect to Yellowstone National Park. Daniel Bryant 02:36, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mallard Lake trail[edit]

Mallard Lake trail (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

A stub of two sentences- a non-notable nature trail. Very few edits, and no other articles linking to it. CattleGirl talk | sign! | review me 07:52, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Billy Hathorn 03:02, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: I see that NPS (and USGS) sources are the vast majority of references for the Glacier articles; they're reasonable authoritative, but not very independent. Some third-party sources would be nice. There are enough books about Yellowstone's trails, backcountry, and history to write a trails section if we can devote enough time to it. This would be better broken out as a topic than split among geographic regions, in YNP's case, because the best trails either link two or more developed areas, or start in backcountry and go deeper (such as Bechler). I'm considering starting a draft in a user subpage, and getting interested people to improve it there and cite the Haines and Whittlesey books, so it won't get AfD'ed like this stub. This trail's article exists because someone wanted a place to put one photo of a stump, with no other claim of notability or interest such as the fire-regrowth studies; it won't help for the YNP article nor for the "Trails of ..." article I might write. Barno 22:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Daniel Bryant 07:02, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Tyrell (drug trafficker)[edit]

Michael Tyrell (drug trafficker) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The subject of this biographical article is non-notable. There are few sources to justify this article other than the one crime report provided by the Evening Standard.-- Zleitzen(talk) 21:01, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • This may certainly be true by U.S. standards, and while that may be an unfair comparison, by British (and arguably European) standards it is one of the largest ever to be smuggled into the country. It was also the subject one of the largest survailance operations undertaken by British customs officials. Additionally, his wife and co-conspiraitor Julie Paterson, apparently a personal friend of actor Timothy Dalton, was sentenced the largest prison term ever given to a female drug trafficker. All of the points are stated and cited in the article. Also, if there is discussion on establishing notability on criminals, WikiProject Crime or any of its related projects may also be interested in contributing to the discussion. MadMax 20:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • If there are obvious flaws or otherwise innaccurate information, then it should be corrected, not deleted. As I live outside the UK, my sources are limited to internet news articles and reference books generally between 5-10 years out of date. However, I would assume editors from Great Britain would be able to provide more substansial inforation and references. Obviously as this infomation has since been corrected, this issue should be resolved. MadMax 23:33, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seraphimblade Talk to me 08:03, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. The same case could be made for George Jung or Zachary Swann, however both men are also considered notable drug dealers as well. While it would be unfair to compare between American and British drug traffickers (given the larger customer base, supply/demand, street value, etc.), the fact remains Tyrell's career is just as notable as a number of drug traffickers already existing on Wikipedia. MadMax 23:33, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:40, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

UCodit[edit]

UCodit (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

NN open source search engine. Article links to news articles on Krugle, but that is a completely different website. JLaTondre 15:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Cbrown1023 talk 00:56, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Andy Marlette[edit]

Andy Marlette (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Does not seem to satisfy WP:BIO. Unless I'm missing something, he seems to be a fairly obscure cartoonist; who has won only a few awards, all of which seem to be relatively minor; and the most notable thing about him seems to be his involvement in a very brief controversy about one of his cartoons at a college newspaper. Purifiedwater 20:32, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. John254 15:44, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Steve Kramer (politician)[edit]

Steve Kramer (politician) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

See first nomination at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Steve Kramer (politician) 1st nomination. Delete Non-notable and not sourced. GreenJoe 03:24, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You may indeed cringe but are clearly mistaken if you believe the American media covers third parties with the same vigor they do the two major parties. IvoShandor 02:27, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was No consensus, defaulting to keep. Shimeru 08:09, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Air Force One in popular culture[edit]

Air Force One in popular culture (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Trivial information that neither needs its own article nor a section in Air Force One. Besides, the only notable thing on the page is on the film of the same name. SeizureDog 09:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • 3RR has a time restriction. Removing the items as they are added back does not in and of itself violate any policy. Otto4711 18:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Still, if someone keeps re-adding the same cruft, and I keep deleting it, it's a content dispute. Deleting repetedly-added material is not a preferred way of handling content disputes on Wiki. - BillCJ 19:04, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • No article has a "right to exist." Otto4711 18:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • And again, that's a guideline, not a policy. In this case, it's better here than in TWO places, as explained in detail above. Whether one like Pop-culture pages or not, one really should consider the actual intent here, which could have been uncovered by a little reasearch. It was easy to find out who created the page, and ask the creator why he felt it necessary. But that was not done in this case (others might accuse one of being lazy). - BillCJ 19:04, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I understand that it's an essay. At no time did I suggest that it was anything other than an essay so I'm unclear as to why you felt the need to remind me of it. Essay or not, BHTT is still a piss-poor argument and if the best or only reason for having an article is because the information in it is trivial clutter from the main article, then that ought to be an indication that the information shouldn't be anywhere. I also understand why you thought it was necessary. Thinking that you couldn't possibly be more wrong in your reasoning doesn't mean that I don't understand your reasoning. The big problem with your reasoning is that now, instead of there being two articles to monitor for garbage content, there are three. That doesn't really strike me as accomplishing, well, anything. Otto4711 21:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is not really a BHTT argument, because the Pop-culture content is sufficient for a stand-alone article. The case at WP:BHTT deals with splitting unsuitable content, rather than deleting it. In this case, cruft has been pruned, and the article contains substantial items like major motion pictures, books, etc. Dhaluza 21:33, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:41, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ryan Neisz[edit]

Ryan Neisz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Not notable. Prod removed. Dweller 09:53, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:41, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hatesex[edit]

Hatesex (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

WP:OR, a dicdef, and a copyright violation to top everything off (compare to here). I'm not even sure if the band is notable either... SeizureDog 10:16, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete as vandalism. - Bobet 17:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Golden Briefs[edit]

The Golden Briefs (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Unverifiable, this just may be a hoax, well, I can't find anything that verifies this, anywhere. Gelreoz-0 10:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:44, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Freedom Life[edit]

The Freedom Life (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Google search turns up nothing. Creator is almost certainly a sockpuppet of banned user Lyle123; he's been creating these types of hoax animated film articles for several months now. He also created The Wild II (which had been deleted twice) under a separate nickname. That article is also up for deletion over here. Esn 10:16, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In addition, this article has been deleted once already for being a hoax. Esn 10:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep.--Wizardman 00:09, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Columbia High School (Florida)[edit]

Columbia High School (Florida) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Reason summed up with one word: "And?" Another non-notable school. Edit: Article has since greatly improved. It should not take a AFD to make an article keepable though. The people creating school articles need to get in the habit of establishing notability well before it's nominated for deletion. SeizureDog 10:24, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was closed; a non-copyvio version was in article history; reverted to it. RΞDVΞRSЯΞVΞЯSΞ 16:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bailie Nicol Jarvie[edit]

Bailie Nicol Jarvie (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Article is directly copied from product website TS Astra22 10:40, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Daniel Bryant 02:38, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

2003 Demo[edit]

2003 Demo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Content-free article on an unpublished demo single by a non-notable band Iridescenti 10:52, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As the nominator I haven't nominated the band (although on closer inspection three of those six albums appear to be self-published), but just this album which appears to be an unreleased demo with nothing in the text to indicate any kind of significance. I recognise that some unreleased albums, eg the Beach Boys' Smile or Big Star's Sister Lovers, are genuinely notable but there's nothing to indicate it here. Iridescenti 15:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My comment about the notability of the band was directed at the post above mine. I understand that you did not nominate the band. I was simply pointing out that they did have some degree of notability. As I said before, because this is a demo, the author of the page is going to need to provide sources for the content of the article. Otherwise, there is no way to prove that the album even exists. If the author is unable or unwilling to provide sources then the article should be deleted as per the nomination. I was not arguing for the album, I was merely stating that it needed sources in accordance with Wikipedia policy. --Cyrus Andiron t/c 17:32, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:45, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Islamic Inquisition[edit]

Islamic Inquisition (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
Comment: Can the page be protected from recreation, seeing how its been deleted twice before? - Ozzykhan 14:03, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Answer: Yes, it is possible that the page can be protected from recreation. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Protected_deleted_pages

- Kernel_NickM 7:18, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

To: Ozzykhan 14, It was never deleted (as far to my knowledge)! PS Criticizing radicals is in no way an "attack" anyone. Historianism 07:11, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: See deletion log: [14] Ozzykhan 14:13, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. Shimeru 08:13, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

BugBox (software)[edit]

BugBox (software) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Advert for non-notable software. Survived a previous VFD but the standards have changed since then while the article has not. MER-C 11:26, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. There is an important distinction to be made here between the book and the possible seccessionist movements themselves, in that nothing has been advanced here to show that the former is notable. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 07:59, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Civil War II: The Coming Breakup of America[edit]

Civil War II: The Coming Breakup of America (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This is a book review for a book which was briefly published by American Eagle Publications, which is hardly what one would call a mainstream publishing house, and is now an ebook. No evidence of any scholarly discussion of this book that I can see, the closest we get to a claim of notability is this: In about 2001 there was a made-for-TV-movie about a Civil War II that started in 2020 with a Chicano revolt in the Southwest that appeared on a cable channel with a scenario very similar to but not based directly on Chittum's book. Er, right, so it was not made into a film then. The Wikipedia article is obviously written from personal knowledge, not a distillation of the cited sources (because there aren't any). Guy (Help!) 11:36, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:47, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delphonse the Frowny Clown[edit]

Delphonse the Frowny Clown (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Unverifiable/non-notable children's book. One single solitary hit on Google search for an Amazon page which gives little info. Delete Spondoolicks 11:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:47, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Richard Stibbs[edit]

Richard Stibbs (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Bio article with no real assertion of notability. Drat (Talk) 11:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Daniel Bryant 02:39, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oshvision[edit]

Oshvision (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article deals with a minor company, Oshvision, that no longer exists. During its existence, it produced a few computer games, and was run by two teenagers. Previous versions of the article (over eight months ago) were incoherent, there were issues with copyright (see my comment below) and I speedily deleted some of them back then. However, as I recently found out, the creator of the article perceived this as censorship and still thinks Wikipedia should have an article about Oshvision. I told him I'd restore it, and properly nominate it for deletion, so the whole community could have a say in it and he could contribute to the discussion himself. Last year, it didn't meet our company inclusion criteria, and these days there are still no secondary sources that could ever serve as a source for the article. JoanneB 11:49, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have reciently updated the artical, and I dont really understand why certain copyrights were mentioned??? as all the content belongs to me anyway? and if I the owner wish to distribute my images of my companys logos on wiki, like other major companies then its oK??? Contact me how i can upload images which wont get deleted because they got copyright on them?

Oshvision 13:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies. I remembered something about copyright issues with your images, but I looking through the history of the images you used, it seems to be that at first it just wasn't clear what the correct licenses were for the images you provided. Even if you've made certain images yourself, without the correct tagging, they can't be used. However, I think that I was wrong in including that in this nomination, it has nothing to do with the current discussion. --JoanneB 14:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. Cbrown1023 talk 00:59, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Proximity bias[edit]

Proximity bias (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article has been transwikied to Wikitonary and no longer belongs in Wikipedia. Natl1 (Talk Page) (Contribs) 11:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Daniel Bryant 02:40, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Amapedia[edit]

Amapedia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

40 unique Googles, none of which appear to be non-trivial external sources. No sources cited. Possible smerge to Amazon, but probably better to wait until it's out of beta. Guy (Help!) 12:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge(d) and redirect. Thanks to Black Falcon for actually doing the merge; it was the consensus from here (hence my close), so cheers for that. Daniel Bryant 07:04, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Xtreme Football League[edit]

Xtreme Football League (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

A football league that never actually existed? Warrants a one-line mention in af2 at most, but does it even warrant that? EliminatorJR Talk 12:36, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Wikipedia is indeed about knowledge, but it's about knowledge which is encyclopedic. Once the cited criteria are passed (and the site is no longer "arguably the best" but is in fact said to be such by someone), this is the kind of article which can be re-created. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 08:58, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

CC-Comp[edit]

CC-Comp (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

I don't think it passes WP:WEB. Traffic Rank for cc-comp.org: 393,862 from alexa.com, I went there and it said "9 user(s) active in the past 15 minutes" which isn't much. The Negotiator 13:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is CC-DucK. The CC-Comp page is still under construction from several members of CC-Comp. It is a private project that only several people know atm. We intend to finish it up asap, before letting the members of CC-Comp Forum know about this Wikipedia page. With 7k+ Members on our forums, I am certain that this Wikipedia page would be able to generate hits. CC-Comp IS an extremely active forum, and perhaps you went to check the 'hits' at the wrong time. So, please be patient, this Wikipedia page would be done soon. CC-DucK 21:51, 18 March 2007 (GMT+8)

So you have created the page in order to advertise your website? Wikipedia is to provide free information, not a free advertisement service.--The Negotiator 14:15, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, we just felt that since we are arguably the best trading site of our game for that particular realm, we should have a Wikipedia page. I believe I mistook your 'hits' thingy, as I thought you meant that this page should be closed as no one was reading it. --CC-DucK 22:19, 18 March 2007 (GMT+8)

The article appears to fail every criteria of WP:WEB, which is why I listed it here. If it does not pass any of the three, then it is not notable enough for Wikipedia.--The Negotiator 14:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think I understand what you mean now. Give us some time, we'll discuss and let you know asap. --CC-DucK 22:42, 18 March 2007 (GMT+8)

Don't worry, you have 5 full days to show that the site is notable enough. :) --The Negotiator 14:44, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we just wanted a place to put the history of CC-Comp (Which is being worked on regardless). A lot of people ask about it. I thought wikipedia was about information, I didn't realize that only certain information about websites are allowed. And we get about 10k unique visits a month or so. --TheCaptainJS 8:57, 23 March 2007 (GMT+5)

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The result was redirect to Love. Angel. Music. Baby. I'm deleting the hoax revisions. Grandmasterka 10:59, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Serious (Gwen Stefani song)[edit]

Serious (Gwen Stefani song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

I tagged this article as unreferenced, hoping that there might be some reliable sources. It looks like the references there now are copied from Wind It Up (Gwen Stefani song) since I don't see any mention of "Serious" in them. In fact one of them, SwedishCharts.com, lists the song as only being on the album and doesn't have it as a single. The single cover is also unsourced, so no proof of the single's existence there. ShadowHalo 01:49, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe Serious was ever released as a single. Nukleoptra 16:49, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

--Andrew4793 t c 13:36, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Leesamio 02:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep. Shimeru 08:17, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Trausti Valsson[edit]

Trausti Valsson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Autobio. by subject User:TraustiV - self promotional, only edits are this and promotion of his book. He may be notable, but that should be determined by others. Vsmith 13:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:48, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Mars Bar[edit]

The Mars Bar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Appears to be a non-notable venue incapable of independent verification. It was listed for speedy deletion by a new pages patroller, but as that has been disputed, I have brought it here for a broader discussion. Orderinchaos78 14:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment WP:N is quite clear on notability not being established by fame or importance but by independent coverage. i usually check google, factiva and the state library of whatever state it's in and if i find enough to justify it, i then vote support... but in this case that has not happened. DanielT5 14:30, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Right now I do not think that WP:N is clear about anything since its very existance is being disputed on its talk page. There is quite clearly no consensus about that page; whether it is a guideline or whether it should exist. Your point is one of the points in dispute. --Bduke 22:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I would caution you to be aware of the Canvassing guideline per [17] [18] [19]. It has already been posted both on the daily log and I also listed it at the Australian deletions log so it will appear at the portal. Orderinchaos78 14:54, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is not Adelaides only gay bar and I never claimed that. Timeshift 14:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Are you commenting to me, or to yourself above me? I never said anything to do with being Adelaide's only gay bar... The link I provided is hardly media coverage. It's more like an ad. -- Longhair\talk 14:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You. I thought you pasted the link there because it said it was one of Adelaides most popular gay bars, therefore debunking my point about it being Adelaide's only gay nightclub. I was making the point/distinction. If you werent making that point, never mind. Timeshift 14:29, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I used to live in Adelaide. I vaguely remember The Mars Bar, and still don't think it anything worth writing home about in an encyclopedia. Wikipedia is not a nightclub guide. -- Longhair\talk 14:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So much for the categories "LGBT nightclubs" and "Nightclubs in Australia" then and all the pages in them. Either theres a conflict between what you say and what wikipedia allows, or wikipedia administrators are *extremely* slack in not finding the rest of the pages in those catagories. Timeshift 14:38, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There are 1.5 nearly 1.7 million pages and growing every day on Wikipedia. See What about article X? Orderinchaos78 14:42, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So it's the latter and not the former then. Cheers for the clarification. Timeshift 14:44, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Or you could go to http://www.google.com.au/search?q=%22the+mars+bar%22+adelaide and see all the pages associated with the nightclub. Timeshift 14:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
all of which are ads or at best use information totally supplied by the subject of the articles/pages? DanielT5 14:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
They are not ads, they are "at best" as well as peoples own independent reviews and a sleuth of other info. It's not all taken from their homepage, not by far. Timeshift 14:36, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

However, it seems that may not be enough to justify an article. Capitalistroadster 00:38, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete per author request and arguably as attack page. All right: Nuklear is the only author of the article, they now request its deletion, and that is probably for the better. Given the weird nonsense they are now posting here and in the article ("The founder of Hochemicals© is the overall master of the totalitarian dictatorship regime"), the content is probably not exactly reliable. Someone else may of course write a new article about this topic. Sandstein 17:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ohmefentanyl[edit]

Delete it. The generalized totalitarian dictator leader, the Führer himself) is creating his own webdomain. Such classified topics should not be available on a *public* website.--Nuklear 14:48, 18 March 2007 (UTC) Infact I was on a secure line with the ambassador to the U.S. thismorning and he suggested this to me.[reply]

Ohmefentanyl (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This page is mostly the result of one editors work having first been built 13:38, 6 October 2006 by user:Nuklear, who has now made 984 of the users total 1118 [21] edits to this article. At first glance it looks like a well referenced article on a topic that you know nothing about. Further reading brings statements like *The founder of Hochemicals is the generalized master of the totalitarian dictaorship regime. which the just yesterday was changed to *The founder of Hochemicals is the generalized master of the totalitarian dictatorship regime. by user:Nuklear [22] the article does contain some information that is correct and can be validated easily in Google as Ohmefentanyl really is a synthetic opioid [23] Some Google results on (totally synthetic opioid Ohmefentanyl) are "interesting" to say the least. I placed a ((subst:uw-vandalism3)) on the editors talk page yesterday [24] I could not find a proper place in Wikipedia:Vandalism to bring this, and the article would appear to be a candidate for WP:AfD so I bring it here. Jeepday 14:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What are u talking about dummy, I own this page. I invented it. Furthermore I have done ALL of the contributions, I just wasnt logged in like 20% of the time that I wasnt ULing images. Trace my IP & u will see ;-) Also if you want to make a generous capital donation to his lordship, please do through my paypal account on ebay.--Nuklear 17:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete. - Bobet 17:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Royal Pants[edit]

The Royal Pants (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Unverifiable, no sources cited, no evidence there is even a book out in 2008 with this title, surely it's a hoax, I'm probably wrong, but hey. Anyhow, I doubt that such a book would even exist! SambaDiJaneiro2314 15:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy keep - frivolous nomination Newyorkbrad 16:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tom Brown's Schooldays[edit]

Spamvertisement, not notable. Olxahorno 15:07, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:52, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How the World will Change - with Global Warming[edit]

How the World will Change - with Global Warming (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Blatant promotion by author. Too new for notability criteria, pub.date Apr 30, 2007. Vsmith 15:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was withdrawn as a reference has been added -- however, the unsourced version of the article, which leveled very serious accusations against its subject without any references whatsoever, should indeed have been speedily deleted. John254 17:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Djamel Zitouni[edit]

Djamel Zitouni (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article is comprised entirely of unreferenced negative information, and thus qualifies for speedy deletion under CSD G10 and WP:BLP. However, the speedy deletion request was removed by an administrator. John254 15:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was revert to disambigation version and redirect Just Like You (disambiguation) to Just Like You. Pan Dan 16:29, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just Like You[edit]

Just Like You (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Already an article for Keyshia Cole's sophomore album. Dj Rapmasta 16:07, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep. No arguments for deletion presented, including the nomination. Discussion re: merging can proceed at the article talk page. Shimeru 08:21, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Air Force Honor Guard Badge[edit]

Air Force Honor Guard Badge (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Merge with United States Air Force SU182 16:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:29, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kameron Evans[edit]

Kameron Evans (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non neutral mini-biography, with no indication given as to notability and no details of alleged works Iridescenti 16:41, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:29, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Chris Lenz[edit]

Chris Lenz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

One line biography of apparently obscure individual, no indication as to notability - possible speedy delete Iridescenti 16:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy keep, deletion rationale invalid per deletion policy. Guy (Help!) 17:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bircham International University[edit]

Bircham International University (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

According to the text in the article, the institution is involved in immoral activity. If it is true, it does not deserve to be an article under any category of educational institution in any standard encyclopedia. Plus I think, a bunch of ill information about anything is not a very nice article for an encyclopedia, it destroys the overall usual expectation for the readers. I think proving someone innocent or guilty is not wikipedia's responsibility. So the article should be deleted to avoid any controvertial content Pointchair 15:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you want a "correction" contact Michigan, Oregon, Maine, and Texas' agencies to remove Bircham off the lists and allow that Bircham's degrees are valid. Also contact the other organizations including UNESCO. The article is not imbalanced because it is either accredited or not. The government sources as NPOV as possible. It is illegal for people in many places (Germany, US states, etc) to attempt to use unaccredited degrees. It is vital to make the unaccredited status clear.
Pointchair is a role account trying to remove WP:RS that show Bircham is a questionable institution. Arbustoo 17:38, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy delete as copyvio. –Llama mantalkcontribs 18:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

College Road Trip[edit]

College Road Trip (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

No context, do not know what author is talking about Redconverse 17:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. DS 18:59, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rudy Oberman[edit]

Vanity page, no indication of notability Iridescenti 17:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy delete - creator-admitted hoax. Newyorkbrad 22:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lesser spotted mule[edit]

Despite the nicely photo-shopped image (details), this article is patent nonsense. It does not even qualify to be called an hoax. -- RHaworth 17:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your process point, but I'm going ahead and speedying as blatant, now-admitted hoax/nonsense. Newyorkbrad 22:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. - Bobet 14:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew_Gower[edit]

Andrew_Gower (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article was deleted previously (on the 1st nomination) on the basis of being non-notable. (In the interest of openness, I should mention I made that 1st nomination) It was subsequently recreated. Somebody else almost immediately nominated it for deletion a 2nd time, but the discussion seemed to focus more on if Andrew actually helped make RuneScape or not (which he did), and the nomination failed. This is therefore the 3rd nomination.

I am nominating this article for deletion, as it appears to be original research (see WP:OR), and also because I believe according to wikipedia guidelines it is 'not notable' (see WP:BIO)

Justification: With regards to the 'notability' part I don't dispute that this person helped make RuneScape which is a significant game. However reading WP-BIO it seems clear that whether something is notable enough to appear in wikipedia is more based on whether other reputable publications deemed the person notable (by writing about them). In particular read the primary criterion of WP:BIO. I believe the reason for this is because that then determines if sufficient reliable information is available about a given person to actually write the article. (without original research)

Unfortunately there is lack of solid 3rd party articles about this person. As such this page has ended up COMPLETELY unsourced, (original research). This in turn means it contains numerous factual innacuracies, and a bizarre mix of trivia as a result. It's certainly not a good biography. I can't see any verifiable facts that aren't already on the jagex article. It doesn't actually cover the key points of the persons life. (just a weird mix of things he did at 17)

I should mention that I am aware that there are articles that mention this person *in passing*, but those are articles are about Jagex or RuneScape, (which already have pages), not actually about this person. I.e they aren't biographical articles. The ONLY article I can find at all which is actually about the person (as opposed to Jagex) is the very brief paragraph in the sunday times, but that is referenced on the Jagex page anyway, and doesn't contain enough info to actually make a wikipedia page.

I therefore propose this article is redirected to Jagex, as all the verifiable facts (and their sources), are already listed on there anyway. Runefire 18:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

P.S: Since first posting, I have reworded the above slightly, to repeat itself less, and hopefully be clearer. I have removed the comment about vandalism, as you are right that's not relevant. I hope that's allowed. Thanks

Reply to the above. I did read the entire 2nd nomination, and check every one of the sources. But as I originally stated they didn't actually seem to be about the person, and so didn't really provide facts to base the article on. (I.e they weren't biographical - With the exception of the sunday times one I already mentioned.) You mention WO:BIO#Special Cases. But the very first sentance of that section reads "The following criteria make it likely that sufficient reliable information is available about a given person". Obviously that isn't the case here. I was actually originally just going to strip out the info that wasn't verifiable, but then I realized that's the entire article. Hence the AFD instead. Thanks Runefire 18:53, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sources about Gower: Guardian, December 11, 2003, Pg. 19; Western Mail,March 25, 2006, Pg. 18; Independent,July 17, 2006, Pg. 14. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Semperf (talkcontribs) 20:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]
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The result was delete. I will userfy this, to Wedudley or anyone else, upon request at my talk page. Daniel Bryant 07:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

William E. Dudley[edit]

William E. Dudley (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Notablity not given, only reference is to MySpace. —KNcyu38 (talk • contribs) 18:41, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment 66.167.47.114 & 74.0.117.243 are me at the same computer, I cannot explain that, can anyone else? >Wedudley 05:52, 22 March 2007 (UTC)<[reply]
  • Comment This small article keeps getting beat up for lack of nobility and yet it is about A person who has been the subject of secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject. The depth of coverage of the subject is not always big yet multiple independent reliable sources have been cited. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.167.42.14 (talkcontribs) 00:56, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Bangtale International was not a zine, it was a very expensive well produced (offset) journal, with a board and many international contributors, It was not a vehicle for the publisher to showcase his own work. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.167.130.10 (talk • contribs) 04:10, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:54, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

References to media in Dead Rising[edit]

References to media in Dead Rising (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

It's a mess of original research and unnecessary/pointless trivia with absolutely no sources--SUIT양복 18:52, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep.--Carabinieri 23:31, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kelly Madison[edit]

Kelly Madison (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Nothing in her article suggests that she passes WP:BIO or WP:PORNBIO. Epbr123 18:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:55, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Drunkthings.com[edit]

Drunkthings.com (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

19 G-hits, zero external coverage, no reliable sources. PROD contested by article creator. FCYTravis 19:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:56, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'll Kill You (The Catnip Peddlers song)[edit]

I'll Kill You (The Catnip Peddlers song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

"Band" is non-notable and does not come close to meeting any criteria of WP:MUSIC or WP:BIO as far as I can tell, so an individual song by them certainly does not need an article. 27 Google hits for "catnip peddlers" and many of them are Wikipedia mirrors. "Sources" quoted in the article are not reliable. Prod tag was removed. Big Smooth 19:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. - Mailer Diablo 12:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of cultural references to A Clockwork Orange[edit]

List of cultural references to A Clockwork Orange (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Another "in popular culture" section that was split out into its own "article" instead of being pruned, as it should have been. There is nothing encyclopaedic about "references to <randomly chosen film> in popular culture", so a list of same is defintely not encyclopaedic. Guy (Help!) 19:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:57, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arup Rahee[edit]

Arup Rahee (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

An article full of POV and a self-reference website quoted as source on subject of no notability. Aditya Kabir 19:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 06:57, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled 17th episode of Lost season 3[edit]

Untitled 17th episode of Lost season 3 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

unsourced, WP:CRYSTAL The artist formerly known as Sceptre 20:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Redirect to List of Code Geass episodes. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 03:49, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

On The Day The Demon Prince was Born[edit]

On The Day The Demon Prince was Born (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This is just a plot summary, delete per WP:NOT#IINFO. Phirazo 20:04, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. Overall, Code GEASS's notability is matching Haruhi Suzumiya in Japan, for now. George Leung 04:40, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Keep. The policy concern, WP:ATT, has been addressed, and it appears to pass WP:NOTE's standard as well. Shimeru 08:28, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sputnik browser[edit]

Sputnik browser (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete Article about a very short lived software project, which is just basically a port of a browser engine to a platform that hardly anyone has heard of. Non-notable. AlistairMcMillan 20:11, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I didn't mean short-lived as in "won't last long" or "dead", I meant it as in "only been around for a matter of months". And notability is generally held to mean third-parties have talked about it. Can you point to anyone talking about it aside from yourselves, or forum postings? For people who are interested in browsers, it is only notable in that "WebCore" has been ported to another platform, which suggests it should just be a short mention on the "WebCore" page, not an entire article. AlistairMcMillan 01:59, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

BTW DanielM you are the editor with the most edits to MorphOS and you started the article in question here. Would you mind telling us whether you have any involvement in either MorphOS or the Sputnik browser? AlistairMcMillan 02:07, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure why you feel like you are entitled to quiz me, AlistairMcMillan. I don't mind saying I have no financial interest in them. Is it too much "involvement" for you if I use them? DanielM 03:06, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks CosmicPenguin, but I do assume good faith. Perhaps I've seen too many software developers come along here and start up pages about their brand new projects. However I was kind of wondering whether this was the same {redacted} who "represented Genesi by demoing the system at Dayton Ohio's Computerfest". AlistairMcMillan 05:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's getting ugly now. Alistair, are you going to look up and post my phone number and address next? Maybe this is the point where I am supposed to start Googling for you, but I don't think I will. DanielM 10:25, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think you might be overreacting a little bit. Searching for your name and MorphOS returns over five thousand results. Given that we have rules about Wikipedia:Conflict of interest and we have people coming here all the time creating pages about their software projects Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/RM-X_General_Purpose_Control Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Vncscan Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Beyond Remote, do you really think it is out of order to ask if you are involved with the project? AlistairMcMillan 17:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And from where did you get my name? It hasn't been previously disclosed on Wikipedia as far as I know. But yeah, you got the right guy. I demoed the Pegasos and MorphOS at a fold-out table at Computerfest Dayton in 2003. At that I wore a Genesi shirt that had been given me and I did write at that MorphOS fan page with the world map that I "represented" Genesi there. I received no money for that, but a year or more earlier I had paid $600 for a Pegasos mainboard, a discount, with the understanding that I would demo the board at Computerfest that year (2002). But it didn't work out and I decided to go the next year. I also attended CES 2003 where I shared a hotel room that Genesi had paid for for two nights. I snapped some shots and stood at the stand there, not really needing to because they had about 13 people, between wandering around to enjoy the show, running the 5K (or was it a five miler), and infecting my friends there with an unholy flu bug that I had caught just before flying out (on frequent flyer miles). The arrangement was all wholly informal "sure, come on out, we'll set you up with a room." I think the discount, the hotel room, and the shirts are the only things I ever got from Genesi, no money certainly, and I didn't expect or ask for anything else. I also demoed the Pegasos at my computer user group in 2002, and when Genesi held a show near my town in late 2003, this was at my initiative and for the enjoyment of it. Since 2003 I haven't attended anything like that that I recall, hard to believe three and a half years have gone by. I said above that I have no financial interest in MorphOS or Sputnik and that I am a user of them, and that is how I see myself. But you've done your detective work well, hope it's as sordid as you imagined. I think you're insufficiently tying it all back to Sputnik though, a browser that is not even sold, it's given away. When you figure out where my payoff is coming from, Alistair, please give me a call on my cell-phone or perhaps a letter or maybe you can have an enforcer drop by my place and show me his brass knuckles. As for a conflict of interest about any of this, I'd rather hear perspectives from anyone who is not you. DanielM 22:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Dude I take it back. You aren't overreacting at all.  :) AlistairMcMillan 23:26, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Henriok voted KEEP on the article's discussion page. DanielM 23:38, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay first of all this isn't a poll. Second, if you want Henriok's opinion to count towards the result, then please ask him to leave a comment here. Note: a comment, not a vote. Thirdly please read Wikipedia policy: I've lost count of the number of people who have told you know, but it is the lack of evidence that this piece of software is notable that is leading towards its deletion. The obvious way to fix this is to provide something that proves notability. AlistairMcMillan 23:45, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're just arguing over words now. Henriok's position ought to be included if we know what it is. Please stop with your lecturing tone. That's just your opinion that the article is being lead towards its deletion. DanielM 01:43, 21 March 2007 (UTC) PS: From where did you get my name?[reply]

Please read Wikipedia:Deletion policy. AlistairMcMillan 05:38, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here's what he wrote at my talk page:

The temptation to be sarcastic is almost too much to bear.

* Step 1) Type "daniel morphos" into Google. * Step 2) There is no step two.

Mystery solved. Now, if you don't mind, could you please cite a reliable source that establishes the notability of the Sputnick browser. AlistairMcMillan 02:38, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

AmiGR and Henriok already said on the article's talkpage why they believe it is notable:

Keep - This web browser is notable since it's the only really modern for MorphOS, it's based on the second most popular Open Source webb-browser source (WebCore) and it's under active development. -- Henriok 19:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

It is notable in that it is the first working browser on AmigaOS-related platforms (MorphOS currently, will be ported to AmigaOS4 and others) to support modern web technologies like CSS and reasonable JS. AMiGR —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.96.77.103 (talk • contribs) 19:51, March 18, 2007 (UTC)

I concur with that. The statement in the article about modernity incl. CSS support is sourced to a computer news portal website with editorial controls over news releases, as well as to a print magazine. DanielM 10:34, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that there is no user called Special:Contributions/AmiGR and Special:Contributions/81.96.77.103 has no other edits except to the relevant talk page and the article on Yeast. AlistairMcMillan 19:01, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And for "print magazine" please read magazine produced by an Amiga user group. AlistairMcMillan 19:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is in fact a professional full-length quarterly print magazine. I've had a subscription to it for more than a year. DanielM 23:05, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So, this very notable web browser, is the article going to just be one paragraph? Can someone provide a screenshot (keeping established conventions in mind)? Is "WebKit was ported to MorphOS" the only thing that can be said about it? Really, if you think the thing is notable enough for a whole article, surely you can say more than one paragraph about it? AlistairMcMillan 18:56, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

AlistairMcMillan, you've now done two things that I've never had done to me in almost two years of editing Wikipedia. First, you've posted my real name. This after Googling my username and the subject of an article that I edited, going through the results until you found the Daniel you were looking for, in some sort of detective effort to find a conflict of interest for this, an article about a browser programmed by one guy and given away at no charge. Second, you have modified a comment I made above, to draw a line through the name AmiGR.

It doesn't help me to tell you not to post my real name again, you've already done it. I will tell you not to modify comments that I have made. You may rebut them immediately after, but leave my comments for the Wikipedia record as I wrote them. I have restored my comment to the way I posted it and undid your damage to it. If you change it again, I guess I will see about complaining to an admin about you.

I am astounded at the level of personal antipathy you have towards this, an innocuous article about a free browser for an alternative computer platform. You are sarcastic and rude and seem determined to throw stuff at it until it falls down. I can't imagine it is actually about this article and can only surmise you are misdirecting your negative feelings about something else. DanielM 23:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You know you could spend this time trying to improve the article. And please don't exaggerate, out of the first ten results for "daniel" and "morphos", five mention your full name. Hardly qualifies as some sort of detective effort. AlistairMcMillan 23:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's been five or more days and the discussion shows that most see the notability of the Sputnik browser article. As several noted, it is notable for being the first browser for MorphOS that is capable of modern standards such as CSS. This is reliably sourced in the article, to an alternative computer news portal with editorial controls, as well as to a print magazine. One editor comment that "hardly anyone has heard of" the OS but number of users does not equal notability any more than Wikipedia is a democracy. Neither does a small number of users equal non-notability. The same editor went on to imply that since the print magazine is produced by an Amiga user group that it is somehow suspect and unreliable, but the magazine is full-length and high quality and released and mailed on a reliable schedule and generally lives up to a very high standard. This may be directly observed by reading the sample articles at the website. The same opposing editor appeared to be attempting to make the case that I as the article's originator had a conflict of interest because I presented Pegasos computer hardware at a computer show 3 1/2 years ago. To do this he Googled my first name (which is included in my user name) as well as MorphOS, the Pegasos operating system on which Sputnik runs. Finding something he regarded as incriminating he then posted my full name in this discussion. This was against my wishes and I believe against Wikipedia policy, but the salient point for this debate is that he failed to actually show a conflict of interest. By any reasonable standard I am not "involved" with Sputnik, a freely released browser programmed by one person who is not me. To summarize, I believe the discussion shows that Sputnik browser is notable and that the article (a stub right now) is fairly well-sourced (given its nature as a new program for a less-known alternative OS) and that the article is an appropriate and valuable addition to Wikipedia. DanielM 23:47, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You know something, if you had devoted this much time and energy to improving the article it might be something worth keeping. The four sources you have come up with are all to do with the Amiga community, no sources from outside that community. The three web sources all pretty much just say "someone ported WebKit to MorphOS and here is a brief list of features" and nothing else. The magazine source does have an interview, but we can't see that to determine if there is anything in there that might be interesting: for example is it just a direct port or has the developer added any new feature like the Nokia guys did with their port.

About your name. I am genuinely sorry that I revealed your real name. Given that you use your first name and the first initial of your second I didn't think for a second that you were trying to hide your identity. But the fact is I asked you whether your had any involvement with the project, when I already knew you had some contact with Genesi hoping you would say something like "yeah I helped out at a booth for free a couple of days but I'm only a user" or something, not the cryptic "I have no financial interest" answer. For what it is worth, I genuinely believe you that you have no involvement in either MorphOS or Sputnik, aside from being an interested user. And, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we have any policy about protecting editors identities. Wikipedia:Anonymity is almost a blank page and our Wikipedia:Privacy policy basically says don't use your real name if you want to be anonymous. You might be thinking of WP:BLP but that is about biography articles not editors themselves.

Which all doesn't change the fact that the only way in which this software is notable is that (a) WebKit has been ported to another platform and (b) MorphOS now has a browser. Notes to be added to other articles, not enough for a whole article itself. AlistairMcMillan 03:01, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He's factually incorrect in (b). MorphOS has at least three other browsers. Voyager (web browser), IBrowse, AWeb. As said by others in this discussion and me, one reason Sputnik is notable is because it is the *first browser for MorphOS to support modern standards such as CSS*. And Alistair, I'll return your comment, your time would be better spent in positive activities. At least I try to make an article that people will be interested in and use as a resource to learn about the subject, whereas you just try to pick it off. DanielM 14:53, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete, no sources given to meet conditional keeps. Daniel Bryant 06:59, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Legend Brewing Company[edit]

Legend Brewing Company (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Unsourced article on a privately-owned brewery. No evidence of significant coverage in reliable secondary sources. Guy (Help!) 20:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 05:44, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lesley Moore[edit]

Lesley Moore (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Is not notable by herself per WP:MUSIC. Nv8200p talk 20:54, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete per WP:CSD#A7. --Wafulz 22:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tickle patch and friends[edit]

Tickle patch and friends (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

One sentence incomprehensible entry, unable even to expand as it gives no indication as to context Iridescenti 20:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep. Merging or moving can be discussed at the article's talk page. Shimeru 08:35, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

2nd Brigade Combat Team, 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry)[edit]

2nd Brigade Combat Team, 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article was already deleted last week, it's not notable and it's a copy cut from their website [30]. -Sucrine ( ><> talk) 21:11, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was destroy. Destruction (disambiguation) will be moved back here. --Coredesat 06:59, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Destruction[edit]

Destruction (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

De-prodded by an IP with no rationale. This is a dicdef and never will be more than a dicdef. The original disambiguation page was unilaterally moved to Destruction (disambiguation), and I think that page has the relevant history and should be moved back after deletion (which is why I didn't do a C&P move).

Seems like there should be a speedy reason for this, but ((db-move)) doesn't seem to apply because it's not a redirect. SnowFire 21:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy delete by ChrisGriswold. Zahakiel 15:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Radioactive Man (Band)[edit]

Radioactive Man (Band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete and probably speedy delete, patent nonsense Iridescenti 21:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

i'm not done with the page, i just saved it in case my computer crashed.Bridge 26 21:29, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 07:01, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Big Crunch in popular culture[edit]

The Big Crunch in popular culture (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The creator of this article apparently spun it off from Big Crunch. It's just one of those "popular culture" articles that we've come to know and love here at AFD. It's full of statements which are unsourced and uninformative. YechielMan 21:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy deleted by ChrisGriswold. MER-C 08:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

P.i.p.e. team[edit]

P.i.p.e. team (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Appears to be a vanity page, nothing to indicate notability of this group - not tagged for speedy delete in the unlikely event that this is a genuine institution. Iridescenti 21:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 07:02, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Environmental Transformation of North America Prior to European Colonization[edit]

Environmental Transformation of North America Prior to European Colonization (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

see WP:NOR. Seems like an essay. Fisherjs 21:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep per nominator's second thoughts and suggestion of further article development. Newyorkbrad 23:47, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Raman Mundair[edit]

Notability Tim.bounceback - TaLk 21:51, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP this article makes a useful contribution to the documentation of Black British writers and writing. This writer is well known on the British poetry and spoken word scene and has published several books (as the Peepal Tree site confirms). This wikipedia entry is a good and useful reference for those of us who are researching into contemporary literature, particularly as contemporary poets and poetry tends to be ignored outside specialist publications. So I strongly urge that this entry remains. 62.7.150.93 12:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. --Coredesat 07:03, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strawberry sex cake[edit]

Strawberry sex cake (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

A variation on the 69 position involving menstruation. Neologism, probably a local variation - no related Google hits at all, no sources, no way to verify this has ever been performed by anyone. Dcoetzee 22:04, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 06:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Asian (people)[edit]

Asian (people) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

New request for Deletion reason: i dont see any point in having theese articles surrounding peoples races. i mean their are just to many arguments over theese. just as the black people,white and caucasians. I will vote for Deletion.--Matrix17 20:24, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No having this article itself will lead to historical revisionism because extreme POVs on either side will selectively quote selectively chosen historians to push their POVs and since most people don't bother to read history books, they just get all their information from wikipedia, history will indeed be rewritten Iseebias 22:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
On that basis, several articles about the nazi's warcrimes, racial hygiene, holocaust and similar should also be deleted. If they're taken out of context they could also be misused and misquoted. Just because people have heavily slanted POVs out there is one reason why articles like these should be there to inform and point to the facts in its sources. History is ugly in many cases, but deleting the accounts of them won't make them go away and the following generations won't learn from the previous one's mistakes. --Strangnet 22:09, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. --Coredesat 07:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vendyl Jones[edit]

Vendyl Jones (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Only current sources consist of the subject's own (partisan) web site, an arguably partisan news source, and a blog. Sourcing doesn't meet the stringent criteria required by WP:BLP Shirahadasha 23:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy keep maddening nomination. Normally I don't care for WP:SNOW but it fits here. Controversy is not a reason to delete. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 23:59, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Black people[edit]

Black people (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Nominating for Deletion Reason: How is this article notable? its about black people like it is a sort of animal or something "special" atleast many people her thinks so when you look at the discussion page. I think this should be deleted ,i also think its strange that it is a "massajman" as a rawmodel for black people and then celebrities and other more notable persons on the White people section. How is a massajman notable? lets here more opinions.should it be kept or deleted? --Matrix17 17:36, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

*Very Strong Delete I'm tired of all the edit wars and complaining on the talk page. I worked very hard to make sure everything was referenced and make sure all view points were heard, but people are never happy. If you look up the word black in the dictionary it is defined as a member of a dark skinned race especially one of African descent, and yet people are complaining that race is being mentioned in the article. It's like trying to write an article on Chritianity without being allowed to mention religion. One person keeps saying that even 4 year olds know what a black person is. If so, why the need for an article? There isn't much encyclopedic you can say about this topic that doesn't offend people and create edit wars, and most encyclopedias don't include this as a subject. They may include articles about the African diasporas, or skin color, or race, but not about black people. In general I don't think the wikipedia process works well on controversial topics because controversial topics attract people with extreme view points who are trying to push an agenda & such articles are always swinging from one extreme to another depending on which side become more numerous and more determined. Wikipedia works much better for less politically charged topics where editors can work together instead of against one another. In short how can you write an article on black people if editors can't even agree who black people are. You have some editors claiming only people of sub-Saharan African ancestry are black, you have other editors saying Oceanic ancestry is also black, and you have still others saying people from India are black. And don't even get me started on whether Afro-multiracials are black. Iseebias 18:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

*Very Strong Delete I also VOTE for deletion. i think as iseebias thinks that it is to many people getting upset and angry on this article. and also on the white and caucasian articles. i dont think you can place PEOPLE in certain categories according to race. I dont see my dark coloured friend as my "black friend" but as only my friend. this article also has many strange opinions in it. and the massaj man is actually not representative for all people. so i say this article should be gone.Their are to many people thinking it shouldnt be deleted if you look at the discussion page to,and the Vanuatu man making food or somthing with a stick is just pure racism in the worst way.--Matrix17 19:45, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your nomination is your vote. No need to repeat it. --Ezeu 23:13, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I dont see any of my friend as blacks or white for me people are people. with different personalities. my friend who originaly is from africa dont cook herr food with sticks and hunts in the woods with arrows and dont wear masai clothes like this article seemsto point out. I feel sorry that you cant see that my friend.--Matrix17 20:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:Thats just the racist comments i mean. Do you actually think all africans eats with sticks? haha All this articles do is to cause arguments like this stupid arguments due to that people get hurt because of the feeling of being stuck into a certain category by a page written by all people.the vanuatu man making fire with a stick is the worst i have ever seen. pointing out people who is black as fools. my god.--Matrix17 20:16, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment what I am trying to illustrate is cultural relativity. What may offend one person may not be offensive to others. If you only have a western view, then there is a vast array of things that will be offensive. There are many people who still live a pre modern existence. to some any mention of them is racist. to others its just a way of life. but we digress. my point is if society sees black and white, why should we pretend not to. for example most social economic indicators still show differences between black and white.Muntuwandi 20:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Society sees black and white because we keep focusing on the distinction. There are many other distinctions: Tall-Short, heavy-slim, old-young, blue eyes-brown eyes, democrat-republican (many of these also show economic indicators)but society (at least in North America) is obsessed with dividing people into "blacks" and "whites". The more attention we give these social constructions the more important they become. What a positive message it would send if wikipedia decided that "race" and/or skin color were of so little significane that they didn't even have articles on blacks and whitesIseebias 20:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That is a chicken and egg issue. The current situation is better than it used to be but the polarization still exists.Muntuwandi 20:54, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Its still wrong, anyway you put it.and just makes unnecssary arguments on the discussion page,Delete page.--Matrix17 20:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]


So what are you saying? People are just genetically hardwired to discriminate against other races. That racism is 100% innate so there's no point even trying to get people to reconstruct their social reality. We should all just become obsessed with race and skin color and devote entire articles to it? Iseebias 21:14, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No. based on the evidence not talking about race or color of skin is not necessarily a solution to racismMuntuwandi 22:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Totally agreeing with iseebias. this page just inceasing the already excisting racism in the world. Get it deleted. i have altso put on deletion tags for, white people,caucasion race and asian people who are just as racist.--Matrix17 21:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. An encyclopedia should not delete information and historical accounts on what has been and what is. This and other similar article are not putting a value to a certain skin color or "race" but only describing the cultural heritage and history of mankind - with all the bad sides to it. If this article is deleted then we're on a slipping slope and it could lead to historical revisionism. Closing the eyes won't make any suggested problems disappear - only enlightenment can take care of that. Strangnet 21:53, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No having this article itself will lead to historical revisionism because extreme POVs on either side will selectively quote selectively chosen historians to push their POVs and since most people don't bother to read history books, they just get all their information from wikipedia, history will indeed be rewritten Iseebias 22:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
On that basis, several articles about the nazi's warcrimes, racial hygiene, holocaust and similar should also be deleted. If they're taken out of context they could also be misused and misquoted. Just because people have heavily slanted POVs out there is one reason why articles like these should be there to inform and point to the facts in its sources. History is ugly in many cases, but deleting the accounts of them won't make them go away and the following generations won't learn from the previous one's mistakes. --Strangnet 22:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

comment the asian people article has been nominated for speedy keep. Muntuwandi 22:49, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The one that was speedy kept is the first nomination. The current one is still ongoing.--Ezeu 23:13, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Bias is not a reason to delete, but to fix. See Wikipedia:Deletion policy.--Ezeu 23:54, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There's absolutely no cause to vote for speedy deletion. Familiarize yourself with WP:CSD before flinging it around. JuJube 23:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Speedy Keep. AfD is not the place to have a "conversation" about what to do with the page, there's a perfectly usable Talk page for that. Additionally, I'd suggest that the nominator read over the deletion policy before creating further AfDs, as "prevention of an edit war" isn't a good reason to suggest deletion of an article. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 04:57, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Caucasian race[edit]

Caucasian race (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Nominating for Deletion Reason: How is caucasian race notable? how can people make an article on caucasians as a race? I dont see any point in having an editor war over this pages who obviously are quite discriminating in one way. I think its time that we have a actuall vote on if we should keep or delete this sort of pages.So have your say. --Matrix17 19:38, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep See: Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. And see: Encyclopedia. "An encylopedia, encyclopaedia or (traditionally) encyclopædia, is a comprehensive written compendium that contains information on all branches of knowledge or a particular branch of knowledge." How is caucasian race notable? how can people make an article on caucasians as a race? Read the article. Lukas19 20:14, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:i just referre to the answer to lukas from the white people deletion argument. I think their is cause for atleast a conversation ove rhow to do with this page. pointing out people as races.like in the old days.--Matrix17 20:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. An encyclopedia should not delete information and historical accounts on what has been and what is. This and other similar articles are not putting a value to a certain skin color or "race" but only describing the cultural heritage and history of mankind - with all the bad sides to it. If this article is deleted then we're on a slippery slope and it could lead to historical revisionism, much worse than the proposer is suggesting. Closing the eyes won't make any suggested problems disappear - only enlightenment can take care of that. Strangnet 21:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy Keep. While nominating an article to spare people's feelings is an ostensibly noble aim, it goes against the aim of creating an encyclopedia. Such debate as there is about promoting one agenda over another should be done on the Talk page. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 06:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

White people[edit]

White people (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Nominating for DeletionReason:How is this page notable? Their has been so many hurt feelings and strong reactions to this white people,black people articles. i dont think black people are very pleased with been putting in to a certain category just because they are black, and the same for white people. Their are more people who wants to delete this sort of pages then the opposit, and that is what sthis Keep or delete voting will prove. --Matrix17 20:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete because of the racist way and quite unnecessary way theese articles has been written. i mean is it necessary to have articles on blacks and white people?? i dont think so anyway.--Matrix17 20:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - just a note, a nomination connotes an automatic delete. --Dennisthe2 00:19, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Keep See: Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. And see: Encyclopedia. "An encylopedia, encyclopaedia or (traditionally) encyclopædia, is a comprehensive written compendium that contains information on all branches of knowledge or a particular branch of knowledge." White people contains lots of information about a subject that is certainly not trivial, due to historical and modern reasons. Lukas19 20:09, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: i dont agee with you i think that for example the black pople page points out that african people cook and do their foods by hunting and then using sticks. and that white people are supreme over all others . but thats my opinion. i dont see any use in the fact that this pages just cause arguments between all people here. and thats actually all it does cause arguments and hurt feelings--Matrix17 20:13, 18 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]
There is no such comment which suggests "white people are supreme over all others" in White people article, except maybe historical definitions section of the article. If your feelings get hurt by that, you have so much work to do. You may have to delete half this encyclopedia. There are entries about wars, disasters, tragedies, emotional novels, and lots of stuff, both historical and modern which may cause hurt feelings. Lukas19 20:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - you might want to see WP:ABOUTEVERYTHING when considering that for an argument. --Dennisthe2 00:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: No you dont have to delete half of the wikipedia work. is just this in particular articles black,white and caucasians and so on people articles that gets so mutch discussions and people GET hurt over them.if you cant see that,then thats you problem--Matrix17 20:21, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

People get hurt over many things. My throat hurt when I had cold. Should I nominate Common cold article for AfD? Lukas19 20:24, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:Its just that sort of comments that maes this pages so unnecessary comments from people who just cant see that people behind the computers reading actually get hurt or atleast upset. like you lukas making fun of a problem that has always existed. the way people always try to categorize eachother.and you making fun of this should be asahmed.--Matrix17 20:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Very strong delete: We don't need wikipedia trying to tell us who is white. What the hell does light skin color mean? Light compared to who? What is European ancestry? How much European ancestry and how far back? Europe is just an arbitrary landmass. There's very little genetic about being from Europe in particular and light skin isn't exclusive to Europe anyway. This article contains no real facts just opinions. Does race even exist? If so, I thought caucasians were the race; if so we already have an article about them. An article about white people is just pure nonsense. Iseebias 21:44, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. An encyclopedia should not delete information and historical accounts on what has been and what is. This and other similar articles are not putting a value to a certain skin color or "race" but only describing the cultural heritage and history of mankind - with all the bad sides to it. If this article is deleted then we're on a slippery slope and it could lead to historical revisionism, much worse than the proposer is suggesting. Closing the eyes won't make any suggested problems disappear - only enlightenment can take care of that. Strangnet 21:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No having this article itself will lead to historical revisionism because extreme POVs on either side will selectively quote selectively chosen historians to push their POVs and since most people don't bother to read history books, they just get all their information from wikipedia, history will indeed be rewritten Iseebias 22:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
On that basis, several articles about the nazi's warcrimes, racial hygiene, holocaust and similar should also be deleted. If they're taken out of context they could also be misused and misquoted. Just because people have heavily slanted POVs out there is one reason why articles like these should be there to inform and point to the facts in its sources. History is ugly in many cases, but deleting the accounts of them won't make them go away and the following generations won't learn from the previous one's mistakes. --Strangnet 22:09, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
wikipedia only works when editors work together towards a common goal. It does not produce quality results in controversial articles because controversy attracts extreme opinions and when editors become polarized they work against one another's interests which gives rise to editorial chaos. Articles that have required repeated protection do not lend themselves to the stability wikipedia strives for and should be deleted. In most cases no article at all is better than unstable, and thus uncredible one Iseebias 01:27, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. --Coredesat 07:06, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dj redworm[edit]

Dj redworm (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Yet another page about an "up-and-coming". Fails WP:ATT and runs afoul of WP:COI, has already been speedied as "band vanity". Primary editor is named "Redworm". JuJube 23:52, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 03:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sandra Scream[edit]

Sandra Scream (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Not notable. Doesn't pass WP:PORNBIO. Epbr123 23:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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