The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The "keep" arguments failed to adequately address notability concerns. The fate of Srivastava Group is independent from this nomination and should be discussed at the appropriate venues. ✗plicit 12:06, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New Delhi Times (newspaper) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Advertisement of a fake news website pretending to be a 30 year old newspaper, note that the editor who has been restoring the advertisement version has only ever edited/created or tried to create pages related to its parent company, i.e the Srivastava Group. There are bunch of advertisements on the net for this website, some disclosed and others undisclosed. See this disclosed one in The Print, parts or whole of which can be seen reproduced in the undisclosed ones. The only independent coverage from RS is in the form of passing mentions in the coverage of Srivastava Group, which has acquired a bunch of defunct, unused and misleading domains and repurposed them as part of a disinformation network.

See these articles about the group in The Hindu, CBC, or BBC, etc for context. Quoting from the latter, "Some suspected Russian interference, but EU Disinfo Lab, which is an independent NGO, traced the servers behind the website to Srivastava Group. The researchers then uncovered a vast network of English language fake sites serving India's lobbying interests. Many of the fake websites use names of defunct newspapers to provide a veneer of credibility. EU Disinfo Lab have dubbed these "zombie" sites, because the names were resurrected from dead media outlets. For example, one of the sites is called Manchester Times ... The IINS is based at the same address in Delhi as Srivastava Group and an obscure media outlet called New Delhi Times. BBC News Hindi reporter Kirti Dubey visited the address and was told by a security guard there was no office in the building. A neighbour who had lived in the area for 40 years told her he had never seen anyone in the house. Srivastava Group did not respond to the BBC's attempts to request comment by phone and email. When Indian media reported the publication of EU Disinfo Lab's initial findings in November, the New Delhi Times' editor in chief Ankit Srivastava tweeted that Pakistan's intelligence services were trying to tarnish him, although he provided no evidence." Tayi Arajakate _Talk 18:52, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Journalism-related deletion discussions. Tayi Arajakate _Talk 18:52, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of News media-related deletion discussions. Tayi Arajakate _Talk 18:52, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Tayi Arajakate _Talk 18:52, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete This seems like a bizarre misinformation site, but even if it's legit it does not meet notability guidelines. BuySomeApples (talk) 19:03, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Here's the disinformation report summary -- rsjaffe 🗩 🖉 19:41, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There isn't any guideline prohibiting misinformation or disinfo entities from having their own page in the articlespace, (for e.g., The Onion); it is just that there isn't any established notability based on what was cited. Also, Disinfo.eu is not a reliable source and so the report should not be considered in this AfD nom. Multi7001 (talk) 03:33, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We are not citing the report but its coverage by BBC, The Hindu, AL-Jazeera, NYT etc. Claiming The Onion to be a misinfo/disinfo site also shows that you don't really understand what those words mean. TrangaBellam (talk) 04:45, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Any mention by BBC of disinfo should be considered. The page may need to be rewritten entirely. Also, the Onion publishes satirical articles; however, some users are not aware and spread the content as if it is genuine news stories, resulting in unwitting deception. Some younger users too, however, tend to use the articles for more deliberate spread. Multi7001 (talk) 21:50, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ahh, but the Onion exists. The evidence is that the New Delhi Times is not a real entity, just part of a cover for a disinformation campaign run by a central group along with many other fake newspapers. rsjaffe 🗩 🖉 23:06, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It would be irrational from my end to make such a determination, since I do not have much recognition of the subject. Reporting from the CBC, BBC, and The Hindu are what will and should steer this AfD nom process. Multi7001 (talk) 00:13, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete I thought that was a real site. It will need to be checked and removed from WP. scope_creep^Talk 19:51, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Turns out Fake news in India mentions the New Delhi Times but didn't link to the wiki entry New Delhi Times (newspaper) rsjaffe 🗩 🖉 20:08, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Jeez, how did it survive for more than eight years? ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 20:20, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Agree with nom, kept under the radar for so long. Nice catch. Oaktree b (talk) 23:18, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: The first source, Daily Excelsior, is somewhat reliable but only contains a small amount of info on the subject. And the second source, OrissaPost, is practically an unreliable source. Insufficient reliable sources and SIGCOV confirming that the subject is both authoritative and a legitimate Indian media entity. Multi7001 (talk) 00:54, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• ′′′KEEP′′′: The Newspaper is one of the oldest newspaper's in India and looking at the newspaper's article there have been no fake news published. It is suggested that all the WIKIPEDIA experts before suggesting for the deletion should find news or articles from the website and tell which news is fake. If all the WIKIPEDIA experts are suggesting the news published on Pakistan is fake news, then they need to please highlight which articles and exactly what in the articles are FAKE News. And the WIKIPEDIA expert who has nominated for deletion has only used those articles written and published by Pakistani Origin Journalist , which can supported by evidence. This is just a simple case of propaganda war which is being initiated by some users who seem to be having one sided approach. I understand that this will also seem to be one sided approach, but no one seems to consider the real facts, that New Delhi Times, has not published any fake media, which any one is able to prove. Without any evidence of Fake News published by New Delhi Times, you are just maligning the reputation and goodwill of the media outlet that it has established over so many years. Delhiwikiwriter (talk) 09:53, 11 January 2022

Please provide a reference that states it is one of India's oldest newspapers. Multi7001 (talk) 21:53, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(UTC)DelhiwikiwriterDelhiwikiwriter (talk) 09:53, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• See Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#New Delhi Times (newspaper) for the discussion about this user. rsjaffe 🗩 🖉 15:08, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete fails WP:NORG lack of coverage, and above comments. This is not the old newspaper. New newspaper is not notable. Venkat TL (talk) 10:35, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete fake news, WP:HOAX. Skyerise (talk) 19:36, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: The mainstream sources describing disinfo should be considered to both counteract the info inputted in the page and to establish its notability as a fake news website. It may need more reliable sources for it to meet WP:GNG as a fake news source, like for example InfoWars. Any negation of the credible reporting by the CBC or BBC as a disinfo entity lacks rationality and logic, and should not be taken seriously in the AfD process, unless there are reliable sources that counteract their reporting. Multi7001 (talk) 22:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. and describe proerly, and if necessary protect. This. is the sort of information people could reasonably look for here, but we should get it right. DGG ( talk ) 01:53, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I somewhat agree. The problem is there are so many sites in this network. Perhaps protected redirects to Fake news in India or Fake news in India#Fake news against Pakistan. or even Srivastava Group (though this page already points there) with the full information. At the very least, the current version should suffer WP:TNT, imho. --SVTCobra 02:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  That may have been possible if there was more coverage of the particular website, at best it can exist as part of an article on the Srivastava Group (which I do think should be possible to create) but otherwise this is far from meeting WP:GNG or WP:NMEDIA. Tayi Arajakate _Talk 14:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz ^talk 01:03, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete and send to hoax museum per WP:HOAX. Agree with nom; this flew under the radar for far too long. Nice catch! Fakescientist8000 (talk) 18:15, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Move to Srivastava Group - it doesn't look like a hoax. There is nothing in Delhi on the map published by disinfo.eu (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-_KpPuAyLGUhz_R84V12Hu5C_i2oJPSs&usp=sharing). What is mentioned is that the sites on the map are linked to the group that also publishes the New Delhi Times. It probably is the same one established around 30 years ago (dates are unclear - theprint.in says 20 and 28 years in the same article), and is acknowledged by the Srivastava Group as belonging to it, unlike the fake sites. It is mentioned in the Indian Newspaper Society Press Handbook, but it is "nearly invisible"(thewire.in) or "obscure" (BBC) and "posts highly plagiarised or syndicated articles" (boomlive.in). It was probably not notable before the coverage of the fake sites and I'm not sure it is now, but an article about the group would be an alternative to deletion, replacing the bad redirect at Srivastava Group; there is also coverage at indianexpress.com and tribuneindia.com, and the content from Fake news in India#Fake news against Pakistan could be moved into the article. Fake news website is probably not the most accurate description of the sites in this network, as syndicated content, biased coverage, and op-eds are not the same as fake news; they are described as fake because they resemble more established or significant publications and disguise their origins. A865 (talk) 00:54, 23 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think if you read deeper into the PDF of the DisInfo report, you will find that New Delhi Times and Times of Geneva are considered the feeder sites which generate the fake news and thus neither of them are on the map of 265 sites which republish. Cheers, --SVTCobra 22:34, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Srivastava Group took some old defunct newspapers and pretended to be publishing them: "zombie sites". rsjaffe 🗩 🖉 22:47, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.