The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus (excluding two WP:ATA comments that may also be canvassed) is that there's nothing mergeworthy here and that the college isn't independently notable. I'll restore the history if somebody thinks otherwise, though. Sandstein 18:05, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Xinjiang Medical University: International Education College[edit]

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This is not an independent degree-granting institution but rather an administrative unit within Xinjiang Medical University and it has no independent notability from the university. The only reference cited does not even mention the college. The link given as official website is the main website of the university and the link from there to the college is empty[1]. No coverage by independent reliable sources or even by non-independent primary sources here, so all the info in the article, apart from the fact that the college exists, is non-verifiable. There is no verifiable info here to merge to Xinjiang Medical University and in fact the only place in this article where the college itself is even discussed is in the first paragraph. The name is also rather unlikely as a search item so does not merit a redirect. Fails WP:V, WP:N and WP:ORG and should be plain deleted. Nsk92 (talk) 19:09, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. —Nsk92 (talk) 19:20, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. It's well-written, but if it continues to have no useful links and no valid references, it's gonna have to be deleted. TopGearFreak ^Talk 20:09, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Did you try to find sources or useful links? It's easy to delete without trying. - Mgm|^(talk) 20:42, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comment for clarification purposes. Despite its name, this is neither a college nor a university in the sense this term is usually understood. Rather, this is an administrative subdivision (a group of departments) within a university, the kind that is usually headed by the Dean, similar to "College of Arts and Sciences" or "College of Engineering" that most U.S. universities have. Such entities are sometimes independently notable, but fairly rarely. In this case there is absolutely no evidence of notability of this college and in fact no sources, even of primary and non-independent nature, regarding its existence, apart from an empty link at the university's webpage. There is absolutely nothing to merge here as the article contains no verifiable information. The fact that the college exists is already mentioned in Xinjiang Medical University article. That is as much as one can do here. And to answer the above question, yes, I had looked for sources and found nothing. Even a plain google search produces just 38 hits[2], most are mirrors/clones of the Wikipedia article and none that would come close to passing WP:RS. Nsk92 (talk) 21:04, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - colleges of universities, particularly medical colleges, are generally notable. This should have been tagged for sources rather than being proposed for deletion - we need to avoid systemic bias and time should be given for local sources to be found. A possible merge to the main University article is for talk page discussion. TerriersFan (talk) 20:46, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See my comment directly above yours. Nsk92 (talk) 21:11, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any sound basis for your comments.TerriersFan (talk) 21:19, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Err, what? Which part of my comments exactly? And why exactly do they have no sound basis? Nsk92 (talk) 21:24, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"this is neither a college nor a university in the sense this term is usually understood. Rather, this is an administrative subdivision (a group of departments) within a university, the kind that is usually headed by the Dean". TerriersFan (talk) 21:27, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And why do you think that this statement is incorrect? That is what both the main article about the university and the main university webpage appear to imply. If there is any record anywhere of the college being an independent degree granting institution, it would certainly deserve to be kept. But that is pretty clearly not the case here. Nsk92 (talk) 21:31, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, the Chinese government website[3] cited in the article does not say anything about the International Education College but only lists Xinjiang Medical University when providing data for foreign medical students admissions. Nsk92 (talk) 21:36, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Moreover, if you look at the main Xinjiang Medical University website[4], the college is listed there as an item in the same menu as Department of Physical Education and Department of humanities and social science. It is pretty clear that the college has is an entity of similar administrative status within the university as these departments. Nsk92 (talk) 21:43, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"That is what both the main article about the university and the main university webpage appear to imply" - quite; you have made an assumption from the article rather than a conclusion based on fresh information. I suggest that this article awaits the provision of sourced information, which is likely to take longer than a few days; meanwhile its continued existence causes no problem. TerriersFan (talk) 21:40, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See my comment above. No, I did not just make an assumption based on the article. I also looked at the university's website, at the chinese government website cited and did some google searching. There is nothing to indicate that the college is an idependent degree-granting institution and every reason to think otherwise. If someone finds some sources to show that I am wrong about this (and I did look myself), I would certainly withdraw my nomination. But based on what I have found so far, I am quite sure that I am correct. Nsk92 (talk) 21:47, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. —TerriersFan (talk) 21:21, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. —TerriersFan (talk) 21:40, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. —TerriersFan (talk) 21:40, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Xinjiang Medical University. The "college" is not an independent degree granting institution. As a sub-unit of the university that has no independent notability, then as per WP:ORG, the college deosn't meet the notability inclusion guidelines. The article itself does not have any referenced material for merge, so a redirect would make the most sense. -- Whpq (talk) 23:08, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That is a possibility, but this seems a rather unlikely search term to need a redirect. In fact, the title of this article starts with the name of the university, so the autocomplete feature in the search field would take care of this even if someone did do a search like this. Nsk92 (talk) 23:22, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps, but redirects are cheap. And to make sure my stance is clear for the closing admin, I don't support keeping this article, and if the answer isn't redirection, I'd support deletion as information is already int he main article. -- Whpq (talk) 23:36, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In that case I would prefer it to be "delete and redirect" (that is, delete page history and then redirect). I have seen a few cases where an AfD resulted in a redirect, but the page history was not deleted and then the redirect was quickly undone and quite a bit of a mess ensued. Nsk92 (talk) 23:48, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge and redirect to Xinjiang Medical University. Even though there is a distinct lack of currently references, the basic description at the XMU article could be expanded with this information. The information is most probably accurate, so I see this as the difference between being able to verify something, compared to having already verified it. I'd add the appropriate ((unreferenced section)) tag at the time of the merge. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:46, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can see, there is really nothing to merge in this article that is not already mentioned in the Xinjiang Medical University article, which does have a subsection about the college of international education. Nsk92 (talk) 23:50, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- I would keep the Chinese name of the program, the number of students that it admits, and the length of the program. None of that information is present in the XMU main article, and all of it would be appropriate. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete There is nothing to merge, per Nsk92 -- the medical school is notable, but not individual administrative parts of it, unless there's some really special reason. DGG (talk) 03:57, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep This is the only college in the Xinjiang which is responsible for recruiting the international students from Pakistan, India, Tajikistan, Mongolia, Kazakhstan and other countries. The name used in different countries for admission into the university is that of International Education College. So I think this college has a worldwide notability. As the name of the article has been changed from International Education College of Xinjiang Medical University"to Xinjiang Medical University: International Education College" it does not show the original name of the college. Plz reverse the name of the institution and keep it in Wikipedia. Plus you can check how much traffic this page is getting from users of Internet worldwide. I think Wikipedia is for the users and not the Administrators discussing whether it has notability or not. This page is having traffic from internet users it means that this is being viewed and helpful for people around the world. Thanks very much If you will consider my request + i will also be posting some examples from different wiki articles which are not degree awarding institutions but they have pages at Wikipedia.220.171.32.76 (talk) 11:30, 24 November 2008 (UTC) [reply]

As the name of the article has been changed recently by Compendium wmc so i could not get data for the previous article name as the program i use is still in beta. So i cannt post the original numbers but the traffic for October 2008 was >500. 220.171.32.76 (talk) 11:46, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Above comments struck, as they were made by the creator of the article, who is currently indef blocked. Please unstrike if you feel I have acted inappropriately. //roux 12:15, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This is the only college in the Xinjiang which is responsible for recruiting the international students from Pakistan, India, Tajikistan, Mongolia, Kazakhstan and other countries. The name used in different countries for admission into the university is that of International Education College. So I think this college has a worldwide notability. As the name of the article has been changed from International Education College of Xinjiang Medical University"to Xinjiang Medical University: International Education College" it does not show the original name of the college. Plz reverse the name of the institution and keep it in Wikipedia. Plus you can check how much traffic this page is getting from users of Internet worldwide. I think Wikipedia is for the users and not the Administrators discussing whether it has notability or not. This page is having traffic from internet users it means that this is being viewed and helpful for people around the world. Thanks very much If you will consider my request plus i will also be posting some examples from different wiki articles which are not degree awarding institutions but they have pages at Wikipedia. As the name of the article has been changed recently by Compendium wmc so i could not get data for the previous article name as the program i use is still in beta. So i cannt post the original numbers but the traffic for October 2008 was >500. BurhanAhmed (talk • contribs) 12:42, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - This is an encyclopedia. Page hit counts are irrelevant. What is relevant is reliable sources to establish notability independent of the university per WP:ORG. -- Whpq (talk) 12:46, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I agree with User:Whpq that page hits are irrelevant but as they have been quoted I think it is important that they are quoted correctly - the actual number of page hits for the article in October was 162 not "over 500" and most of these hits correspond to edits in the page history. Nancy ^talk 10:50, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep If you take this college's name in Chinese there are plenty of verifble sources - the fact that said sources are not in the English language does not mean this article should be deleted - we are not looking for notablilty in the Western world. Please note that the founder of Wikipedia wants to create the sum of all human knowledge here, and if you look under the reasons for deletion, you can read the following "The fact that you haven't heard of something, or don't personally consider it worthy, are not criteria for deletion. You must look for, and demonstrate that you couldn't find, any independent sources of sufficient depth." There are plenty of sources in the Chinese langauage. Let's not be culturally imperialistic. Moreover this style of college is represented if it is in the States or the UK - I would say that we shouldn't be trying to delete this articel but requesting verifible sources. Kunchan (talk) 19:27, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First, as the header of this AfD says, you should have mentioned the fact that you were WP:CANVASSed to participate in this AfD by the article's creator[5]. Second, if Chinese sources exist, please add them. I don't have a problem with sources being in languages other than English, but these sources still need to be produced and they haven't been. Nsk92 (talk) 19:36, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: The article's creator, User:Burhan Ahmed, undertook an extensive WP:CANVASSing effort regarding this AfD (see the discussion at his talk page and his contib record). If you have been WP:CANVASSed by User:Burhan Ahmed or by anyone else, please make this fact known when !voting. Nsk92 (talk) 19:40, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I agree with User:DGG - the college is an administrative division of Xinjiang Medical University with no independent notability and is already covered in the main university article. Nancy ^talk 09:55, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment These are the links which can show you the notability of the college.

Dalian Medical University Website
A Chinese online Magazine BurhanAhmed (talk • contribs) 14:55, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a translation in to English of the first link - not clear what notability is shown in it though. Second link seems to be dead. Nancy ^talk 15:14, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - it is essetnially a trip report for a goodwill visit. As well, being an article from the campus news of a university doesn't really qualify this as a reliable source. -- Whpq (talk) 16:09, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.