I was hoping to find a way to make use of the "categorytree" function to display all of the sub-cats:
The problem, of course, is that it doesn't display the proposed new names -- which is no small thing. Unless somebody knows of a clever way to accomplish that... (but I'm not holding my breath). Cgingold (talk) 12:51, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
However, we have a number of other entries in the parent cat where one could make the same arugment ... what's a protest song, really? What gives a song feminist themes? So I would like to see some of these other categories considered, too. And if we got rid of the list of masturbation songs, do we need to have a category for them, too? Daniel Case (talk) 22:26, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Use: World War Two Luftwaffe (German Air Force): Geschwaders (Air Wings) if you want an explanation in both German & english. Do not use Wehrmacht, it is a dfferent organization than the Luftwaffe. That would confuse the issue. Most people are looking for information on World War Two air units, versus current units. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saint77 (talk • contribs) 21:53, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Whether or not the above is true in a technical or legal sense, it is without a doubt not accurate to say that the word 'Wehrmacht' was used (in WW2 or currently) when referring to the German air force or navy. The term 'Wehrmacht' is used then and now by vitually all historians as to mean the German Army of WW2. Post-war reclassifications or clarifications (not based on a untrue facts) are not practical and ignore the reality of the situation at the time. The term 'Luftwaffe' was and still is the commonly used term (by the Germans & english speaking historians) to refer to the the German air force since the 1930's. Let's use a current example: what terms are you more likely to see used? the "U. S. Department of Defense's Air Force" or the "U.S. Air Force". Obviously the second term is used. To use the first's terminology, would imply that the United States has another Air Force outside of the Department of Defense (which it does not). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.174.17.194 (talk) 12:20, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Let's back up. Currently we have two proposals
I favor the first. I am not disputing that Luftwaffe is correct term for the German Air Force. I am only trying to argue that the 2nd choice was made on the misconception that the Wehrmacht only refers to the German land based Army, which it doesn't. MisterBee1966 (talk) 13:59, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I think I understand the point that MisterBee1966 is trying to make, however is this page the proper place to make the point that the Wehrmacht "is more than just the army"? I propose that that point be made only at the main pages of the Wehrmacht, the Luftwaffe & Kriegsmarine, and other high level pages of the German military for WW2. Otherwise this 'Wehrmacht' would have to appear everywhere that Luftwaffe units or the Kriegsmarine is discussed, and would confuse more than it would illuminate. Let's not create a monster, remember the people that fought this war (on both sides)and those of us WW2 historians have rarely used the term 'wehrmacht' when talking about the German airforce or navy. I'm tired enough already of the current dogmatic battle over the term Bf109 vs. the term Me109 (its OK to use both terms), let's not do that with this subject.
Another 2 points: The post-war German Geschwaders should be on a different page from the WW2 Geschwaders.
Also a Geschwader is an air wing that contains several staffel (squadrons), sometimes up to 12 staffel. The discussion on this page is really about the air wings not squadrons. The WW2 German practice is different from British and American practices of specifically & individually numbering and tracking each squadron. US/British wings & groups could have a different set of squadrons from time to time based on circumstances. On the other hand, for the most part, German staffels stayed with their gruppes and their geschwaders. The main point is that this page lists and links to the Geschwader, not to gruppe or staffel sized units.
So I propose the page name of [Luftwaffe (German Air Force)): Geschwaders (Air Wings) of World War Two]] or World War Two Luftwaffe (German Air Force)): Geschwaders (Air Wings). --Saint77 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.174.17.194 (talk) 17:28, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm still not convinced for the following reasons. First, if we choose to introduce a category "... of World War Two" then it seems unnatural to introduce a category "Luftwaffe Geschwader of the Bundeswehr". Semantically equal would be something like "... of post World War II" which sounds strange to me. Secondly, the German armed services were called Wehrmacht between 1935 and 1945, a period starting a bit before WW2. A number of Geschwader, J88 for instance that fought in the Spainish Civil War, would hardly fit into a category of "... of World War Two" but were part of the Wehrmacht (Condor Legion). Besides a number of Geschwader had a history preceding WW2.
I think the term squadron was introduced due to lack of a better suited English term.
I gladly take this is offline. Please visit my talk page. MisterBee1966 (talk) 19:11, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Option 6 is inline with the changes you made to the Jagdgeschwader and Kampfgeschwader templates. Personally I would omit the English terms like wing and squadron from the category name. I would add an explanation of the German terms on the category page itself. So my latest recommendation would be Geschwader of the Wehrmacht Luftwaffe and Geschwader of the Bundeswehr Luftwaffe. MisterBee1966 (talk) 12:02, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
And don't forget Geschwader of the Luftstreitkräfte MisterBee1966 (talk) 12:04, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Mr B. The editor that suggested the Wehrmacht is a different military organisation than the Luftwaffe is not well informed. And his point about continuing this error on wikipedia just because a significant amount of poor historians make this mistake is rather silly. I suggest he sits out the debate! Dapi89 (talk) 15:00, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
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Category:Rwandan Genocide people (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Notified creator with ((subst:cfd-notify))
Cgingold (talk) 12:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)rename to Category:People of the Rwandan Genocide as suggested just above and for the same reasons. It is short and clear enough. Hmains (talk) 20:02, 10 August 2008 (UTC)