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November 27

Category:Books, films & other media about poverty

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename to Category:Works about poverty. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 08:59, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Books, films & other media about poverty to Category:Media about poverty
Nominator's rationale: unwieldy page name. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 19:52, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Perfect numbers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:00, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Perfect numbers (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete. (1) The individual numbers should not be in the category, as per WT:MATH#Category for prime numbers. (2) Previously deleted at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 April 14#More number categories, but I'm not sure this is sufficient to warrant ((db-repost)). (3) The remaining articles are 3 in number (Perfect number, List of perfect numbers, and Mersenne prime), and are sufficiently connected that a category or navbox is not needed. Perhaps a partial upmerge to Category:Number theory, if Category:Integer sequences is not considered adequate, for the topical articles, but I don't see the need. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 17:17, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I think G4 applies here, but if an admin in WikiProject Mathematics disagrees, I'm not going to delete it. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 18:55, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Concur with Arthur Rubin. This isn't the way number articles should be handled. CRGreathouse (t | c) 07:52, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: completely unnecessary as all the articles have good and clear navigation between them, and per the precedents given.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 03:20, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Intersex works

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:  Relisted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 December 5#Intersex works. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 09:04, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Intersex novels to Category:Novels about intersexuality
Propose renaming Category:Intersex literature to Category:Intersexuality literature
Propose renaming Category:Intersex-related media to Category:Works about intersexuality
Propose renaming Category:Intersex portrayals in media to Category:Works about intersexuality
Propose renaming Category:Intersex-related documentary films to Category:Documentary films about intersexuality
Propose renaming Category:Intersex-related films to Category:Films about intersexuality
Nominator's rationale: Attempting to standardize these to their various category trees' formats. We removed nearly all "-related works" categories here, except for the widely used "LGBT-related" construction. I think the term "intersexuality" is the right one here, but I wanted to make sure that made sense to people.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 16:09, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Films depicting the 1906 San Francisco earthquake

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename without prejudice to future nomination that focuses on deletion. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:19, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Films depicting the 1906 San Francisco earthquake to Category:Films about the 1906 San Francisco earthquake
Nominator's rationale: Or Delete. We don't have Category:Films about earthquakes, so having a category for one earthquake may be overkill. It could also be merged into Category:American disaster films.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 16:03, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I think there should be a category for films about earthquakes. This film springs to mind, and I'm sure there are others too. Lugnuts (talk) 07:48, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support both rename and parent category creation. - The Bushranger One ping only 17:52, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete based on my unaddressed concern that "films about" is a subjective criteria; how much "about" the subject matter must it be to qualify? and what reliable sources are being used to say that it is at least that much? Since both are missing in this (as well as all these sorts of categories), it ought to go. I had hoped that "depicting" was a category of actual film of the actual earthquake (a well-defined and noteworthy category), but alas depicting was missing the word "fictional" leading to the unhappy result that I would have to argue its demerit. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 02:27, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Comics based on sports

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename per no objections. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:01, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Comics based on sports to Category:Sports comics
Propose renaming Category:Comics based on wrestling to Category:Wrestling comics
Nominator's rationale: I wouldn't say these comics are "based on" sports. Instead, they have sports as a topic.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 15:40, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Paintings depicting death

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge but then purge target category. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:03, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose merging Category:Paintings depicting death to Category:Paintings about death
Nominator's rationale: I'm well aware these two concepts aren't the same, but I question the value of the "depicting death" one. If a painting is not about something, what is the need to characterize it by that thing? Better, in my opinion, to merge the two categories and purge anything that doesn't belong.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 15:26, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category: Wikipedians by service award (and all subcategories)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:04, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Included in this nomination are:

Delete all - First, I'll go through the history of these categories as I believe that background is important for this nomination. The first iteration of these categories, I believe, were nominated for deletion in October 2007, resulting in delete. In November 2010, another iteration of these categories were created and subsequently speedy deleted per G4. These speedy deletions were brought to deletion review, resulting in relisting at CfD. This CfD resulted, once again, in deletion. Finally, just last month in October 2011, a third iteration of these categories had been created and brought to CfD. Apparently nobody who participated in the discussion or the admin who closed it were aware that all of these categories qualified for G4 speedy deletion at the time. That CfD, however, ended up resulting in a rename.

Needless to say, this is bothersome. I wholeheartedly agree that consensus can change, but I believe such a determination would have to be brought up in deletion review, not CfD again. Nonetheless, since the "latest" deletion discussion no longer results in these categories being deleted, G4 deletion is no longer an option, so I think the only real option right now is to bring this discussion here or at DRV. And since no deletions have actually occurred, this seems like the best venue although I'm still bothered by the thought that these were created out of process.

All that being said, I believe we got it right the first couple times at CfD resulting in these categories being deleted. The standard for keeping user categories on Wikipedia is that categories need to have an encyclopedia-benefiting use to be kept. That is, to say, that specifically grouping a type of user would be beneficial to the encyclopedia for someone to search through a list of such users to seek them out for such an encyclopedia-benefiting use.

No such use can be had from any of these categories. Nobody is specifically going to be looking for a Wikipedia Tutnum, for example, for some sort of encyclopedic purpose. Even if some legitimate reason were found, I'd imagine someone would be hard pressed to seek out a "Tutnum" vs, say, a "Grand Tutnum". At the very minimum there is no reason to distinguish each individual award level in its own category for an encyclopedic purpose. The only thing these awards distinguish is number of edits and number of years having been registered. There would be no encyclopedic reason to go specifically seek out someone in these categories that I can think of. WP:USERCAT makes it clear that these user categories are innapropriate.

The awards themselves are not an issue. Nobody is out to delete those here. User categories, unlike Wikipedia space content such as the awards themselves, have different standards from Wikipedia space. That is, to say, that stuff that doesn't benefit the encyclopedia is inappropriate when it comes to categories. There are numerous other arguments made in the past deletion discussions that I encourage anyone interested to read, but in my book the issue really boils down to these categories simply violating WP:USERCAT - To quote from the lead paragraph, "...Considering the principle that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a social networking site or personal webhost, the purpose of user categories is to aid in facilitating coordination and collaboration between users for the improvement and development of the encyclopedia."

While for me that is the crux of the issue, I will also quote User:Black Falcon's nomination rationale from the November 2010 nomination, as he does a good job of presenting further arguments for deletion:

In my view, there are four distinct but not unrelated reasons to delete the categories:
  1. Categorizing users by number of edits and time served is arbitrary and uninformative. The cutoff thresholds for the Service Award levels are arbitrary numbers (e.g., 12,000 edits and 2½ years served), so the distinction between a Senior Editor and a Master Editor, for example, is also defined arbitrarily. In addition, number of edits and time served provide little meaningful information about a user—they say nothing about a user's interests, knowledge, willingness or ability to collaborate or the quality of their contributions to Wikipedia. For these reasons, and also because of how users used the userboxes—many used multiple userboxes and, thus, were in multiple categories, and a number used userboxes indicating 10 or more years of service (i.e., before Wikipedia was created)—categorization by Service Award level is not informative.
  2. Categorizing users by "level" or status creates a false sense of hierarchy on Wikipedia. Identifying some users "Senior Editors" or "Master Editors" and others as "Novice Editors" or "Apprentice Editors" implies a hierarchy which does not exist. I realize that the userboxes do this anyway, but categorization is a step even beyond that. Users are free to declare almost anything about themselves on their user pages via userboxes, but creating a grouping of users (which is what a category does) based on "level" gives more formality to what otherwise would be an informal declaration. In my opinion, this runs counter to the collaborative spirit of Wikipedia.
  3. Categorizing users by Service Award level does not foster encyclopedic collaboration. User categories are intended primarily to group users by characteristics which could facilitate coordination and collaboration between editors. Service Award level is not such a characteristic. Also, user categories are meant to be browsed, not merely to be bottom-of-the-page supplements to userboxes, and there is little or no reason that anyone would need to or benefit from browsing categories of users grouped by arbitrary threshholds of edit count and time served.
For the stated reasons, and per the weight of previous precedent and consensus (user categories which group users by activity, including Cat:Wikipedians by number of edits, or awards are routinely deleted; see here and here for a list of related discussions), I believe that the Service Awards categories should remain deleted.

VegaDark (talk) 08:00, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:History of steamboats in Louisville, Kentucky

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Steamboats of the Ohio River. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:38, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:History of steamboats in Louisville, Kentucky to Category:Steamboats of Louisville, Kentucky
Nominator's rationale: And purge per Category:Steamboats of the United States. We have no other "history of steamboats" categories.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 06:18, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Big 12 Men's Basketball Tournament venues

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:40, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Category:Big 12 Men's Basketball Tournament venues (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Category created that really only has tenuous connections among arenas, since they all served as hosts to one specific sporting event (not to mention that it only has one article in it anyway). There was also a relatively recent CfD about an exact category like this for a different conference (can't remember which) so there is precedent in deletion. Lastly, it was created a couple years ago by a community-sanctioned user who created tens of thousands of pointless categories and who is now permanently banned from creating anymore categories. Jrcla2 (talk) 06:10, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sail ships given steam engines

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. The hatnote for the target category clearly covers the contents of the smaller category, so a merge makes sense. It's very likely this needs a new name, and can be nominated again.--Mike Selinker (talk) 23:14, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose merging Category:Sail ships given steam engines to Category:Auxiliary steamers
Nominator's rationale: Small sub-category that is clearly covered in the declared scope of the parent category already. The Bushranger One ping only 03:45, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Medical-themed films

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: do not rename, no consensus to delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:42, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose merging Category:Medical-themed films to Category:Films about health care
Nominator's rationale: Cancer, drugs, hospitals, psychiatry, infectious diseases—all of that sounds like health care to me.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 00:26, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:United States Naval Outlying Fields

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:45, 6 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:United States Naval Outlying Fields to Category:United States Naval Outlying Landing Fields
Nominator's rationale: Disputed speedy, disputed on the grounds that "Naval Outlying Field" is an official designation. While it is, "Outlying Landing Field" and "Naval Outlying Landing Field" are also official designations for the same sort of airfield, and even those designated "Naval Outlying Field" use the NOLF abbreviation, not NOF. (San Nicholas Field NOLF, for instance.) Given that all three titles are used interchangably, the main article is at Outlying Landing Field, and that "Naval Outlying Field" is somewhat ambiguous, I believe this renaming is appropriate. The Bushranger One ping only 00:22, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree, vote NO to rename. Outlying Field is the orginal terminology, Outlying Landing Field is not original. Changing this name changes the orginally Navy terminology, why change the correct terminology. Visit any of the references to any the Fields articles. LanceBarber (talk) 05:17, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Imperial Beach Outlying Landing Field, aka Naval Outlying Landing Field Imperial Beach; Naval Outlying Landing Field 8; Naval Outlying Landing Field Whitehouse; Naval Outlying Landing Field Ream Field; Naval Outlying Landing Field Washington County; Outlying Landing Field San Nicolas Island, and I could go on. "Naval Outlying Field" is sometimes used, but not always used, and since there is no clear WP:COMMONNAME between the three choices, the least ambigious should be used. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:33, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I stand corrected on your refs you provided, you are correct.LanceBarber (talk) 05:38, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Still vote NO to rename.LanceBarber (talk) 06:00, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:United States Navy inactive aircraft squadrons

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: upmerge to Category:United States Navy aircraft squadrons.--Mike Selinker (talk) 23:10, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:United States Navy inactive aircraft squadrons to Category:Inactive United States Navy aircraft squadrons
Nominator's rationale: Disputed speedy renaming; the speedy objection was that, as "The words "inactive aircraft" are adjectives to the word "squadrons", current name category is proper and not necessary.". While this may be true, the current name of the category strongly suggests that the category is for squadrons with inactive aircraft; IMHO a better name is necessary and I'm open to suggestions if the proposal here is considered improper. (Category:Inactive aircraft squadrons of the United States Navy would be ideal, but none of the other cats in this branch of the tree are currently at X of Y...perhaps Category:Squadrons by navy needs to be changed to it?) - The Bushranger One ping only 00:16, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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