< April 13 April 15 >

April 14

Category:Taiwan island group

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Already merged. Timrollpickering (talk) 11:32, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Propose merging Category:Taiwan island group into Category:Islands of Taiwan
Nominator's rationale: Merge the category is too small with two articles, there is no recognized geographic "Taiwan island group" not already covered by Islands of Taiwan, there is no lead article called "Taiwan island group" and the lead article that it instead points you to, Taiwanese Archipelago has been deleted, albeit with controversy and a relisting based on misconduct. Regardless of any broader naming issues with China or article history, this category isn't useful for navigation. RevelationDirect (talk) 15:06, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • That broader discussion ended with No Consensus so I'm slowing things down with single category nominations. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:07, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I was unclear. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Taiwanese archipelago - the article Taiwan island group was a redirect to Taiwanese archipelago and both were deleted at the AfD or otherwise redirected to article List of islands of Taiwan. We shouldn't have categories dependent on deleted articles. So, uh, I entirely agree with your nomination rationale and we should have categories that match the articles. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)
Thanks for the additional background. Regarldess of any China/ROC/Taiwan issues, there is a need for cleanup here. RevelationDirect (talk) 01:57, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Addendum This qualifies for CSD G5. The original creator is a banned sock. Suggest speedy close. There's no opposition and CSD qualifies. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Old Etonians

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename - Also, as is common practice, regardless of what the presumed intent of a nomination (or nominator for that matter) may or may not be, if substantive/argumentation discussion occurs, an XfD discussion should be treated as any other XfD. This is similar to why we do not close XfDs as "withdrawn" if substantive discussion/argumentation has occurred. - jc37 01:38, 6 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Old Etonians to Category:People educated at Eton College
Nominator's rationale: Per BrownHairedGirl [1] "please note that the decision to drop the "Old Greshamians" terminology has already been made." Andy Dingley (talk) 17:35, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"a category name just sits there confusingly"
Perhaps you're not aware, but category pages are editable too, just as for articles. A category page can describe the school, the group naming, and link to the school's page. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:39, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Andy, The Bushranger is well aware of that. He is also aware that a category is a navigational device, which exists to "browse and quickly find sets of pages on topics". Note that word quickly. Navigation is quickest when the signposts are clear, but you want to use these "Old Fooian" terms which which many readers will not understand, so they will have to open up the category page to find out what it is for.
That's a bit like saying that there is no need to put human-readable labels on any of the boxes in a storeroom, because people will know what is in the boxes once they unpack them. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:27, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can you give some examples? I am not aware of any schools for which your later comments are true. If they are true, they would also be true for Alumni and the American schools seem to cope quite happily with that. Cjc13 (talk) 23:45, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • All "Alumni of Foo school" UK categories were renamed to "People educated at..." at cfd in 2011. (University cats use 'Alumni of', as do UK universities in reality.) All cfd noms in the schools project are automatically flagged up by Alertbot on the project page. Oculi (talk) 12:20, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is a nice idea, but I do not think it will fly. The term "alumni" is too widely used in the USA. As the editor who suggested "People educated at .." for UK schools, I am happy for it it be used in the current limited way. I think, different countries can use different terms. If this is going to be discussed, it should be discussed elsewhere. --Bduke (Discussion) 23:10, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • If different countries can use different terms, then why not let British schools use Britsh terms such as Old Etonians? Per WP:TIES, "An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation should use the English of that nation." Cjc13 (talk) 13:20, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why not use the same policy for UK schools and use UK terms for UK schools? Why should UK schools be treated differently from American schools? There does not seem to be any sign of change for US schools. THe Old Fooian terms were in use for WP categories for many schools for a considerable period of time and reflected local usage. If American schools, quite reasonably, use local terms then it should be the same for other schools in other countries, as per WP:TITLECHANGES which says titles should be based on sources. Cjc13 (talk) 10:43, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comparing "Old fooian" to "alumni" is problematic at best. The American schools do not use "local terms", they use the term "alumni", which is universal in English to refer to people educated at a given location. There may be some debate about how appropiate alumni is for primarily and secondary school students, but the fact that it is a work that has been incorporated into the English language and is in use wherever English is spoken is not really a matter of debate. If you want to change the category names for all the American schools, be my guest.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:46, 3 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • In England, alumni is looked upon as an American term. To claim it as "universal" seems an exaggeration. Cjc13 (talk) 22:55, 3 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Gasoline engines

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus to rename. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan!
Propose renaming Category:Gasoline engines to Category:Petrol engines

and then if and only if that is renamed:

Propose renaming Category:Two-stroke gasoline engines to Category:Two-stroke petrol engines
Propose renaming Category:Gasoline engines by model to Category:Petrol engines by model
Nominator's rationale: I recently closed Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2012_March_28#Category:Two-stroke_petrol_engines to the only logical choice, because the parent category was named Category:Gasoline engines. However, I don't believe that should be the case. The article is at Petrol engine, and a recent discussion on changing that seems to be flaming out without consensus. I believe this should be changed to Category:Petrol engines, overriding WP:ENGVAR, and then the subcategories can be renamed as well.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 16:44, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I will further add that only USA (and possibly Canada) refer to the fuel as gasoline. Other English-speaking countries use petrol. Nevertheless, the important thing is consistency. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:24, 15 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

On the question of Gasoline engine versus Petrol engine:
Which means that under WP:RETAIN, under WP:ENGAR, the title should be Gasoline engine. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 15:03, 15 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Despite accusations, I have no personal preference between gasoline and petrol, and negligible interests in either. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 13:28, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Baseball in the Puerto Rico

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: speedy merge as obvious duplicate. (i haven't checked whether this meets the speedy criteria, but Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy.) --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:54, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Baseball in the Puerto Rico (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete. This was duplicate to Category:Baseball in Puerto Rico, and is gramatically incorrect. No reason for its existence. I moved the one article out of this category already. Keizers (talk) 13:54, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ravians

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 14:10, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Ravians to Category:Government College University alumni Category:Government College University, Lahore alumni
Nominator's rationale: Rename to eliminate the inhouse WP:JARGON of the current category name, and adopt the "Foo alumni" convention of Category:Alumni by university or college in Pakistan and other similar categories.
The current category name derives from the magazine "Ravi" published by the administration of the Government College University in Lahore, Pakistan, and while it is no doubt understood by the University's own alumni, it is unhelpfully obscure for the general and non-specialist readership for whom Wikipedia is written. A reader encountering "Ravians" at the bottom of an article will have no clue what the category is for, and will have to open up the category to discover its purpose. OTOH, the proposed new title "Government College University alumni" is self-explanatory: it clearly refers to alumni of an educational institution known as Government College University. This also help editors to apply the category. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:45, 14 April 2012 (UTC) BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:45, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Its a historic name given to alumni of this university. This is not obscure, this is absolutely make sense. If you ask anyone in Pakistan who is Ravian, they know it. I would strongly argue in favor of keeping the name. If you know the university, its history and alumni, you would like to keep the Ravian name as it is. Spasage (talk) 18:08, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No one disputes the historical importance of the name for those who know the school. But the category system is for everyone, and most people who use the system are not aware of individual schools in Lahore. We should be more approachable for the vast majority of readers, not catering to those who already know the subject.--Mike Selinker (talk) 20:57, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Google hits tells you of popularity of individual or object on the internet only, not in the real world. You have received the response means that such a term does exist for students of GCU. It is also mentioned at many places in the article. Spasage (talk)

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:2000 establishments in London

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. I will include this as part of my close of the last nomination.--Mike Selinker (talk) 14:22, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Propose merging Category:2000 establishments in London to Category:2000 establishments in England and Category:2000 in London
Nominator's rationale: Followup to Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2012_March_27#Establishments_in_London_by_year_etc.. This one seems to have been somehow overlooked in that group noinination, in which other similar categories were upmerged with the intention of dismantling the "establishments in London" category tree. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:50, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Old Greshamians

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Option 2 and purge of those only attended schools earlier/younger than secondary schools, such as middle or elementary schools. (Though leaving implementation of the latter to editorial discretion.) - jc37 00:25, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming either:
1) Category:Old Greshamians to Category:People educated at Gresham's School (senior school) (and purge)
or
2) Category:Old Greshamians to Category:People educated at Gresham's School (to include prep and pre-prep schools)
Nominator's rationale: This is a follow up to a group nomination at CfD March 31, where there was a consensus to rename all 8 categories. However, this renaming was not implemented by the closer, because Gresham's School consists of the senior school, and also a prep school and a pre-prep school.
I think that the closer may have been a little over-cautious, because any sub-categorisation could have been implemented later, but I respect the concern for accuracy. Now we have to decide what to do.
There seems to be a general consensus that education at a particular primary school is not a defining characteristic, and I would therefore prefer option #1: renaming to Category:People educated at Gresham's School (senior school).
(BTW, please note that the decision to drop the "Old Greshamians" terminology has already been made. This discussion is about how to apply the "People educated at" convention of Category:People educated by school in the United Kingdom to this category, not about whether to do so.) --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:03, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Pre-Schism Christian church councils

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete.--Mike Selinker (talk) 15:54, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Pre-Schism Christian church councils to Category:Pre-East–West Schism Christian church councils
Nominator's rationale: Per East–West Schism/Great Schism. —Justin (koavf)TCM 06:53, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Visitor attractions in Japan by location

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering (talk) 10:43, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Visitor attractions in Japan by location to Category:Visitor attractions in Japan by prefecture
Nominator's rationale: All but the "by city" category are prefectures. Alternately, this category could be retained and all the prefectures could be moved into the suggested target category, which would be a subcategory of the location category.-- Mike Selinker (talk) 03:19, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:06, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Works by period

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Works by period of setting. There is a clear consensus for change, but no consensus on what to change it to, so I found something I think most commenters could live with. (The construction "time period" contains what in my opinion is an unneeded "time," so I'm nominating the two other categories that use it here.)--Mike Selinker (talk) 14:16, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Propose merging Category:Works by period to Category:Historical eras in popular culture
Nominator's rationale: When is a "time period" an "historical era," and when isn't it? That's one question I guess the community will need to help me with, at this CfD. I noticed the target category, created by me just weeks after the source cat by Stefanomione, through the sweeping and much-needed discussion about works by years and decades of setting. I believe there is more work to be done, and I offer this as an example of where we might continue. I don't especially care which way the merge goes, though I've proposed merging into "my" category as I do prefer the "in popular culture" naming structure to the more opaque (imo) "works by period."But maybe I'm not being objective. And again, maybe time periods and historical eras are two distinct things, but if so, how they are distinct is not clear to me, nor, I suspect, to other readers. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 19:43, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Relisting comment: There is consensus for some sort of change, but not what sort of change.--Mike Selinker (talk) 02:20, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 00:51, 7 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]


(Looking at the other "period" categories (see Category:Categories by time period), perhaps each one could be either renamed as "era" if that fits their contents, or upmerged to Category:Categories by time. After that, there would be no categories using the word "period". If we favour this then instead of Category:Works by period of setting we could rename to Category:Works by time of setting. But I think this proposal can be left for a later stage.) – Fayenatic L (talk) 17:10, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
After further comparisons within Category:Categories by time , the new name Category:Works by date of setting would probably be better. But I don't mind, so long as we get something with "setting" in the category name. – Fayenatic L (talk) 17:12, 27 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.