< June 17 June 19 >

June 18

Category:Numeric epithets

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. Timrollpickering (talk) 22:33, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Pointless category, which groups only superficially related items, such as Nine Sisters, Seven deadly sins, One-line joke, and 666 (?). Staszek Lem (talk) 19:55, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Singers awarded knighthoods

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. The Bushranger One ping only 01:17, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Rename as Singers awarded British knighthoods in line with similar categories, i.e. Category:Actors awarded British knighthoods and Category:Actors awarded British damehoods. Quis separabit? 14:15, 18 June 2012 (UTC) Moved from WP:Requested moves by BDD (talk) 16:00, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:General VG character subboxes

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge. Timrollpickering (talk) 22:33, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose merging Category:General VG character subboxes to Category:Video game character infobox templates
Nominator's rationale: Tiny, largely unnecessary category which could stand to be merged into the parent category, as all of these templates are 'infobox templates', if not themselves infoboxes. Izno (talk) 15:37, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American roman a clef novels

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. All of these are in a different "American novels" subcategory, so no loss of association with America will occur.--Mike Selinker (talk) 08:19, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: 'American roman a clef novels' is a subcategory of 'Roman à clef novels'. I do not see how a vague association to American literature sets some novels apart from other roman à clef novels. --RPgzLp (talk) 14:40, 18 June 2012 (UTC)*Merge per nom. A split by nationality would be warranted if Category:Roman à clef novels was overpopulated, but with less 70 articles it is still quite a ways from that situation. -- Black Falcon (talk) 20:51, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ivi Adamou

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. The Bushranger One ping only 21:31, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Delete per the guideline on eponymous categories. The whole category currently consists of two templates and an image subcategory. Even if the albums and songs categories were included, it would still be a little thin for an eponymous category. Pichpich (talk) 11:09, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is the most important literary award in the German languaage. So not appropriate for deletion. --Anthrophilos (talk) 09:17, 18 June 2012 (UTC) [reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Hockey alumni

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. Timrollpickering (talk) 22:35, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hockey alumni categories

All of these categories are for ice hockey players of teams. The C2B applies because it is the standard convention to use "players" when it comes to being an alumnus of an athletic team, plus it's very confusing when "alumni" is used because that would denote an educational institution. C2C applies because the parent category for all of these is "Western Hockey League players." I'd also like to point out that these were created in 2005, well before the standard naming conventions came into place. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:08, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy discussion
    • Oppose all. These categories refer to junior teams, of whom their graduated players are considered alumni.[1]. The categories are at their proper terms.Resolute 19:08, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Except "alumni" in Wikipedia refers to People educated at Foo, not Players who played for Foo. Although "alumni" might be the official term, here it is ambiguous and confusing, and thus we need to go by bothWP:COMMONSENSE and what the standard for the category tree is, which is Foo bar players, which is clear, unambiguous, and understood by all. - The Bushranger One ping only 19:14, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • "Alumni" refers to people who have graduated. Junior leagues consider former players to be graduates of their organizations. That you wish to unnecessarily and incorrectly limit the terminology to refer to educational institutions alone is arbitrary, fails to reflect real world usage and is hardly a common sense approach. Resolute 19:26, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
          • "Hardly a common sense approach"? Take that rhetoric back to your hockey mafia. The entire reason I even became aware of these categories is because I saw one on an MLB player's article I wondered what school it was referring to. The common sense thing to do is keep all player categories uniform, not because your pedantic "real world use" is only used by the league itself. I guess we should rename Hulk Hogan's article toTerry Bollea too. After all, he's legally Terry Bollea, who are we to decide that his official entry should be a stage name. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:42, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
            • Knocking down strawmen does not lend strength to your argument. My objection stands, and I would add that perhaps a 30 category speedy rename request is bad idea if you do not understand the purpose behind the terminology. Maybe next time you should come discuss it with the people who maintain the category tree, and if you feel unsatisfied with the answer, to go CFD. Becoming upset because your opinion does not mesh with that of others is not productive. Resolute 19:49, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
              • I do understand the terminology quite clearly as a matter of fact, which is why they were brought here. 100% of all alumni categories on Wikipedia have been for educational institutions up until this asinine amateur hockey league thinks it's graduating students. By all technicalities they can still be alumni of the program (definitionally speaking) but by all common sense accounts and naming conventions on Wikipedia they'replayers. Jrcla2 (talk) 22:48, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
                • No, they think they are graduating hockey players. And since it has already been noted that these categories have existed just fine for seven years or longer, then it is also incorrect to claim that "100% of all alumni categories have been for educational institutions". That you find this terminology to be asinine is also irrelevant. Nor is the use of the word "alumni" exlcusive to this one league. This is a standard across Canada's junior system:[2],[3],[4], [5], etc. That you don't like this usage of alumni does not make it incorrect. Resolute 00:20, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • I would also note that your proposed merge regarding the Victoria Cougars seeks to merge the alumni of the junior team that existed in the 70s-90s into a category for the players of a professional team that existed in the 1910s-20s. Resolute 19:12, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • I can see my mistake there, so I'm willing to concede that merge, but that's because of the lousy description jobs done by the hockey editors in what those categories are even for. The confusion could have been avoided with clear-cut descriptions of who specifically belongs there and at what level of competition.Jrcla2 (talk) 19:44, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Absolutely, and that is a correctable oversight. Resolute 19:50, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose I do believe these have also been to Cfd before and were kept at the alumni name so would have been ineligible for speedy renaming. I also note the merge for the Winnipeg Warriors would also be incorrect for the same reason as the Victoria Cougars. Would have been helpful to talk to the project that maintains the tree before jumping to this action. -DJSasso (talk) 12:41, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • I don't need permission to do anything on Wikipedia, and when I nominated them I didn't think for one second that a hockey league could honestly think it graduates players, so I completely stand by my decision to cfr them and do so without talking to the hockey project. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:08, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • You don't need permission, but simple courtesy would have done you well. Especially given an entire category tree named this way should have caused you to think for a second. Resolute 13:15, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Where did I say you needed to ask for permission? It is generally considered good practice and courtesy to discuss changes that affect multiple pages. The fact that all of the categories were named a certain way should have given you a second to think maybe there is something here I don't understand and I should ask someone who might know more. Essentially teams in the junior leagues in Canada are considered hockey schools. It some European countries they are literally called schools. I believe soccer also does this in the Europe although I believe they use the word academy. -DJSasso (talk) 13:19, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Seems like it's time to put this up for a full nomination again.--Mike Selinker (talk) 06:09, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hate to be pedantic, but the new names you put would be a problem also because the league the pro teams played in were also the WHL. I would be suggest making it so that the old pro team player categories are dabbed by years active (which is often done in cases where the league would be the same) and then do the same to the alumni cats with the years they were active. While making the undabbed cat a category redirect. That being said of course I still prefer it as it is currently. -DJSasso (talk) 11:29, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • He didn't vote twice, he objected to your speedy. And is now opposing the Cfd of which you are still technically the nominator. There isn't a double vote other than yours (not that it really matters but this seems like a petty tit for tat move). That is why the speedy discussion is in a collapsed box as it is separate from this discussion. -DJSasso (talk) 11:29, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Esperantist of the Year

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. The Bushranger One ping only 00:43, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This category contains individuals who have been honored as 'Esperantist of the Year' by the magazine La Ondo de Esperanto. I believe that it constitutes overcategorization by award: although the award is noteworthy enough to be mentioned in three of the biographies, it does not appear to be of the caliber (e.g. Nobel Prize, Academy Award) that is usually required of award-recipients categories. Neither listifying nor upmerging is needed, since a full list is available at Esperantist of the Year#Laureates and all member articles already are in Category:Esperantists or its subcategories. (Category creator notified) -- Black Falcon (talk) 05:36, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:University of La Plata alumni

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Speedy rename C2D. Timrollpickering (talk) 18:51, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Hi people. I have just created the Category:National University of La Plata, which corresponds exactly to the name of the corresponding article. And I think it should make sense to rename this category as well. Regards, --Fadesga (talk) 03:44, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People who as children were orphaned by Nazism

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete.--Mike Selinker (talk) 08:13, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: As noted by User:Good Olfactory in the December 2011 discussion that resulted in the deletion of Category:Orphans, "we generally do not categorize people according to familial or parentage issues". This category sets a precedent for similar categories of children orphaned by other causes, such as particular wars, terrorist attacks and natural or anthropogenic disasters, many of which would include large segments of the populations of several countries – e.g., the World Wars, Thirty Years' War, Great Leap Forward, 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, 2010 Haiti earthquake, Black Death, any one of countless famines that have killed hundreds of thousands or millions (see List of famines), etc. (Category creator notified using Template:Cfd-notify) -- Black Falcon (talk) 05:18, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I guess I wrote too hastily when saying such people could not emigrate, because certainly many of the Kindertransport children and those who were sent to Bunce Court School and elsewhere by their parents in an effort to save their lives, never saw their parents again. Marrante (talk) 21:05, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
At the time I created this category, I had been writing about victims of Nazism and had come to feel that there were people like Coppi, Jr. didn't fit in the categories available, so I created what I thought was lacking. There are those who delight in arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, a phrase I use here as metaphor. The fine points of categorization are better taken up by those more fully versed in them. Marrante (talk) 22:00, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I do consider being orphaned by acts of human hatred to be more defining than being orphaned by natural disaster or accident because these children are orphaned unnecessarily and they grow up knowing this. I understand that those who lose a loved one to wanton crime are also victims of senseless loss, but I saw this category as being about the horrors of Nazism, not about crime. Being orphaned in this way shaped them and connected them as much as anyone who ever lived in a concentration camp, as their many memoirs reveal. At the time I made the category, I was writing about the victims of Nazism, or I'd have created it to include Stalinism, etc., as in the alternate name I proposed (above). Marrante (talk) 06:23, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Akademio de Esperanto

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. The Bushranger One ping only 05:00, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: At this time, the quantity of content (pages) that we have about the Akademio de Esperanto does not justify an eponymous topic category. Currently, the category contains only the main article (which is also in Category:Esperanto organizations) and a members subcategory (which is also in Category:Esperantists). (Category creator notified using Template:Cfd-notify) -- Black Falcon (talk) 04:52, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Esperanto Academy members (deceased)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: upmerge. The Bushranger One ping only 05:01, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: As a rule, we do not split biographical categories on the basis of whether its members are living or deceased. We have categories specifically for deaths by cause, year and war, but there is no need to split an organizational membership category in this way. (Category creator notified using Template:Cfd-notify) -- Black Falcon (talk) 04:28, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American women sheriffs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. The Bushranger One ping only 05:04, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: All of the articles in this category are categorized within one of the state-level subcategories of Category:American sheriffs, and neither one of the remaining two parents is sufficiently populated at this time to necessitate splitting out this category. If the category is upmerged, the two merge targets will contain about 30 and 10 articles, respectively. (Category creator notified using Template:Cfd-notify) -- Black Falcon (talk) 03:45, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Women who reached the Poles

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. The Bushranger One ping only 05:05, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per the parents, Category:Female explorers and Category:Polar explorers. (Category creator notified using Template:Cfd-notify) -- Black Falcon (talk) 03:27, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Galleries and art centres in Ireland

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: split.--Mike Selinker (talk) 08:15, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The two categories overlaps significantly, and the latter reflects the standard of Category:Art museums and galleries. There exists a separate category for arts centres—see Category:Arts centres in Ireland. (Category creator notified using Template:Cfd-notify) -- Black Falcon (talk) 02:08, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Kyoto laureates in Arts and Philosophy

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: withdrawn by nominator. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:12, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Delete May not be a defining characteristic of the winners. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 01:53, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The Kyoto Prize is the most prestigious prize, second only to the Nobel Prize. So deletion not appropriate. See also: Category:Nobel laureates in Literature

--Anthrophilos (talk) 09:24, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Georg Büchner Prize winners

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. The Bushranger One ping only 05:06, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Is not a defining charactersitic of the winners. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 01:53, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Arthur Rubin, the Georg Büchner Prize is the most important literary award in the German language. So not appropriate for deletion. --Anthrophilos (talk) 09:26, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Franz Kafka Prize winners

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. There is no need to listify as a full list already exists—see Franz Kafka Prize#Award winners.
Current consensus, as reflected in WP:OC#AWARD, is that "recipients of an award [generally] should be grouped in a list rather than a category". There are exceptions, as the guideline acknowledges and the two discussions directly above demonstrate. In a situation of this type, neither the fact that we sometimes do categorize by award nor the principle that we generally don't categorize by award is, on its own, adequate to justify keeping or deleting the category. What matters is whether this particular prize passes our admittedly nebulous standards—centered around whether receiving the prize is defining—to qualify for an exception.
As a matter of course, I checked the category contents to try to evaluate the foundation of some of the assertions made in this discussion. Of the twelve articles, only one (Václav Havel) does not mention the award; however, of the eleven that do mention it, only one (John Banville) contains more than a passing mention—although, to be fair, sometimes that passing mention is in the lead paragraph. It is worth noting that the biographies of Nobel laureates generally devote significant attention to that fact—see e.g., Elfriede Jelinek#The Nobel Prize and Harold Pinter#Nobel Prize and Nobel Lecture. Unfortunately, while this analysis might offer some hints, it is ultimately just a point of interest since, with the exception of project categories, we categorize by characteristics of article topics rather than of the articles themselves.
Ultimately, what is missing from this discussion is an explanation, beyond just assertions, of why receiving this particular prize is considered to be defining or how it passes whatever threshold we choose. The Franz Kafka Prize is an international prize but claims that it is or is not a "well-established" and "major" award were disputed and, more importantly, not supported by reliable sources. Therefore, in the absence of a well-defined and -supported (by reasoning and/or sources) argument to establish the prize's special significance (or, rather, its definingness for those who receive it), and taking into account the overall leaning of the discussion's participants, the outcome defaults to the general guidance of WP:OC#AWARD. I highly recommend revisiting this discussion and category if anyone is able to advance such an argument. -- Black Falcon (talk) 17:41, 18 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Is not a defining charactersitic of the winners. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 01:53, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why?? You think that having more of the same winners as a different, completely unrelated award would make it something more important than it is? How on earth does that have any relevance when it comes to deciding if this award should or should not have a category? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.108.252 (talk) 22:31, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes of course we do - see Category:Nobel laureates. But it has to be defining. You've been around here long enough not to make comments like that. Johnbod (talk) 10:44, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That is an "other stuff exists" arguement. The Overcategorization rules specifically state that we do not categorze by awards (except in rare, undefined cases when we do, there is no explanation of these rare undefined cases though) so yes, the basic rule is we do not create award cats.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:44, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
More