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January 14

Category:Journalists killed in Bahrain

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:51, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Rathfelder (talk) 23:54, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Mayors of places in Iran

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:52, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, just one or two articles in each of these categories and they are not part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:51, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Afsharid governors of Isfahan

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:52, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: upmerge per WP:SMALLCAT, currently only one article in this category. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:45, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Airlines by former country

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename/merge. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:50, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: homogeneity with the rest of the categories in Category:Airlines by former country: Category:Airlines of Czechoslovakia, Category:Airlines of the Soviet Union, Category:Airlines of Yugoslavia. I see no reason to keep mentioning that these airlines are defunct when there is no Airlines of Foo category. In the case of Rhodesia this led to the creation of an independent misplaced duplicate. Place Clichy (talk) 17:15, 14 January 2021 (UTC)))[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Murdered businesspeople

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:49, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection. No notable WP:DEFINING link between the occupation and the manner of death. Not commonly and consistently expected as a professional hazard or qualification. There may have been many years between the occupation and the death, making the link even weaker.
Note: Sources about the death of a person will often discuss both their occupation and their cause of death. This doesn't make this intersection any more notable than a combination with other aspects often discussed in such notices, such as their number of children.
At this point, all the other subcategories have been deleted.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 16:40, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Greek crossroads, neighborhoods, streets, and villages

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. One user's comments, "I read the discussion and I am confused", is an understatement. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:41, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT. We don't need any categorization by insignificant crossroads, municipalities, neighborhoods, streets, and villages. These should be grouped into larger areas, sometimes called "regional units" in templates, although that is apparently also translated as "peripheral units".
Multiple editors have tried to recategorize the articles under the parent municipality, and been reverted. Therefore, I'm proposing deletion without upmerging.
Moreover, any persons who have no references citing where they notably lived should never be categorized by such places.
Note: We have also had a problem with re-creation of these after deletion, by subtle change of the 'o' in "from", in both cases by User:Antondimak (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs):
  • Category:People from Arta (municipality) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs), re-created after deletion, then re-deleted again.
  • Category:People frοm Arta (municipality) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs), re-created later the same day.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 15:34, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Withdrawing opposition. I won't put myself through this anymore. --Antondimak (talk) 13:00, 16 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is nothing extreme about the regional unit. It currently contains only 20 biographies excluding the ones in Category:People from Heraklion - the latter should obviously be kept as a separate subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:58, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The strategy you are suggesting (upmerging until there are enough articles) would entail a lot more unnecessary work. Trust me, I categorised all those thousands of articles, and keep the tree updated. Because of cases such as this one, it isn't easy to immediately know where a person is from just from a glance at the article, since it could refer to a smaller village or a place whose name is used for numerous other areas (both true in this case). This means that every time I add an article to a category, I will have to recheck all the articles in said category to see if a subcategory became viable. This increases the complexity of the update algorithm, and given the difficulty in checking each article that I described, this translates into a significant real-time cost. Since I'm doing this manually, this simply isn't possible. Again, the caveat in WP:SMALLCAT seems to exist exactly for cases like this. --Antondimak (talk) 07:48, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Categories should be always be checked for their existance before adding a category link in the article, that applies to every article. There is nothing special about Greek people why they would be an exception in this. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:05, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree, this was not my point, and I don't know how you got that idea, so maybe my phrasing was wrong. The threshold for a viable category is what, about 5 articles? Each time I add an article to Category:People from Heraklion, or any other such category, I will have to check all of the articles in the category, to figure out if a new category became viable, and create. This will mean we would delete all these categories (with all the navigational problems this entails, just look at the mess the last merge was), just to recreate them later. This is exactly why WP:SMALLCAT is titled "Small with no potential for growth". --Antondimak (talk) 11:44, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • It does not matter how administrative divisions in a country are called, whether it is provinces or regional units or metropolitan areas. The point is that articles are categorized at a level that allows easy navigation between a sufficient amount of articles of the same kind. While 5 articles is normally the bare minimum, ideally categories contain like 20 to 200 articles each. In most countries, categorizing people by first level administrative divisions and by cities reaches that goal. In some countries it makes sense to categorize also by second level administrative divisions. Categorizing people by small villages is a bad idea in every country, regardless of whether these villages are 3rd or 4th level administrative divisions or not. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:05, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • They are not small villages. All these lower level categorisations constitute cities or towns, including all nearby smaller towns and villages. The reason that there aren't enough articles is that there aren't enough Greek biographies at the moment, compared to other Western countries. As I have said, we're getting there. If you want proof, the same categories we are talking about were discussed last time (without a clear result). The suggestion was to merge Category:People from People from Archanes-Asterousia with its only member Category:People from Archanes, which contained a single article. The number of articles in Category:People from People from Archanes-Asterousia has tripled in half a month. The categories will return to the same form they are now, you will just make my job harder by doing this. --Antondimak (talk) 11:44, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I also agree that what the administrative divisions are called isn't important. It was just that the proposer of the merge used the argument that Greek regional units essentially constitute metropolitan areas, which they absolutely don't, to justify the merge. --Antondimak (talk) 11:46, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • For small towns the same applies as for villages. Places of 5000 people do not usually have many notable people. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:55, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's why they aren't about small towns. They are about collections of some dozen towns, with usually one to three relatively major ones. The demotikes enotetes actually generally the closest thing in Greece to metropolitan areas, outside of Athens and Thessaloniki. They are collections of connected towns, often around a large one. Isn't that the definition of a metropolitan area? Again though, please let's not talk about that, wince this is just noise. The actual reason, which is valid, is simply WP:SMALLCAT, and I'm glad you're connecting your comment to that ("do not usually have many notable people"). I can assure you that this level of division does, and I will for yet another time provide as proof as proof a recent development. Category:People from Almyros (municipality) had one subcategory with two articles two weeks ago, added in July 2020. It now has four subcategories with a total of nine articles. --Antondimak (talk) 15:57, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would associate "metropolitan areas" with urban areas, not with rural areas. In this case we are simply talking about a third level administrative division. Nine articles in one category could be okay for navigational purposes but I doubt if this municipality level is viable as a whole. It is difficult to base conclusions on one example. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:16, 16 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's not a sole example. In the last two days around ten more categories have become viable (reached 5 articles). One of the reasons there are some many small categories is that when it comes to the articles I translated, I prioritised those for which a new category would need to be created, all other factors being equal, so that this would get out of the way, while I would populate them more later. --Antondimak (talk) 08:35, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why don't we upmerge to Greece then? Have a big category with thousands of articles... This is becoming more and more ridiculous. What did you ask of your Greek collaborators? I'm genuinely curious how you could arrive to this result. --Antondimak (talk) 14:30, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Exact copy of answer from previous page, to answer to the exact same comment (this discussion is quite unwieldy): Alright at this point I will have to bring this in. I don't know who you asked, but, apart from Athens and Thessaloniki, there are no metropolitan areas in Greece, and the prefectures/regional units are nothing close to that. Ask one of them if Achaea/Aetoloacarnania/Arcadia could be considered anything close metropolitan areas. Because I was concerned about something like this happening, and since it's so obvious to a Greek person, but pretty hard to prove if the other party doesn't trust you, I asked a question over at Greek Reddit about it. Simple question: "Would you consider prefectures (we still call them that unofficially) to be equivalent to metropolitan areas, like Athens and Thessaloniki, or for example Rome, or wider regions, such as for example Abruzzo?". The result was, as expected, a unanimous choice of the second option. It's crazy I have to go so far, like the other time I had to search government documents, but I guess we're reached that place. And I'm sorry to say that, but at this point I can't even trust that what you say is true, and that you actually consulted someone. --Antondimak (talk) 18:10, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • In this case we are talking about rural area so that is different. I am not entirely against a further upmerge, but let's take one step at a time. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:55, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Often yes but not always. There are also instances of strong regionalism. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:55, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ah yes, how often have I heard people proudly say they're from Western Greece, but the ones from Eastern Macedonia and Thrace definitely take the cake. Cheekiness aside, the regions/periphereies don't mean that much in Greece, apart from being administrative units. --Antondimak (talk) 18:05, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The nominator requests deletion of these three. That's very clear. The articles need to be grouped into larger areas, probably "Greece". But we won't know until we've sorted out some of these tiny ones.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 01:33, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • You are confused because a couple of editors have discovered the principle that frequent attacks on every posting by every other person resulting in a long diatribe prevents most other editors from taking the time to read and understand.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 01:33, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Fictional women scientists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:48, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:WWF/WWE World Heavyweight Champions

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:WWE Champions. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:46, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose renaming Category:WWF/WWE World Heavyweight Champions to Category:WWWF/WWF/WWE World Heavyweight Champions
Nominator's rationale: This category includes individuals who held the title under the auspices of the World Wide Wrestling Federation (WWWF), so the category name should reflect this. McPhail (talk) 09:45, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Alt Rename to Category:WWE Champions per above. (If there is not a consensus for that, then rename as nominated.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 13:37, 15 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:WWF/WWE World Tag Team Champions

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:WWE World Tag Team Champions. (I read and closed this discussion with the one immediately above). Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:47, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose renaming Category:WWF/WWE World Tag Team Champions to Category:WWWF/WWF/WWE World Tag Team Champions
Nominator's rationale: This category includes individuals who held the title under the auspices of the World Wide Wrestling Federation (WWWF), so the category name should reflect this. McPhail (talk) 09:45, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sayyid Qutb

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:44, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: violates WP:OCEPON you cant have a category for every author and associate BLPs with the author. ChunnuBhai (talk) 08:48, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Films by audience

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 January 28#Films by audience

Category:Works based on Street Fighter

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 February 5#Category:Works based on Street Fighter

Category:Romans from unknown gentes

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: convert to tracking category. bibliomaniac15 22:20, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: To me this looks like a case of WP:OCMISC. I'm happy to be corrected if being from an unknown gens is defining for the individuals, but I can't see the characteristic mentioned in the (admittedly, just a handful of) articles I have looked at. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:06, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely no objection to retaining it as a hidden admin category. The issue here is that does not aid navigaton for readers. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:47, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine for me, too. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:02, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Works set in fictional locations

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Works by fictional setting. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:54, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This category, and all subcategories, potentially fail WP:NONDEF. The mere fact that a fictional work is set in a fictional location is almost never something to prominently mention, and is often implied by something being part of the fantasy genre (that isn't urban fantasy or something similar). The entire category tree was largely the work of one user who also made numerous other cats that were nominated for deletion in the past. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 03:51, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @BD2412: That already exists within the parent category Category:Atlantis in fiction where it should be, it was added to this parent category later. Ergo, it can continue to exist as it was originally. The fact that it was tacked onto other existing categories shouldn't preclude its deletion.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 05:51, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Category:Atlantis in fiction doesn't connect Category:Films set in Atlantis with films set in other specific fictional locations, though. I think that's a category tree worth having. BD2412 T 05:56, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • @BD2412: That would make sense if anything in the category tree specified that it referred to specific fictional locations, as opposed to basically any fictional location - which is how it is currently used. And in any case, if it were used in that manner it would need to be totally reorganized to the point of recreation anyway. An addendum: Atlantis is not considered a fictional location, but a mythological one.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 06:39, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • @BD2412: There is the potential to rename to Category:Works by fictional location which would eliminate the uncertainty, so maybe you'd be interested in that. Although the subcategories would still merit being deleted.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 06:44, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          • Yes, renaming to Category:Works by fictional location would create a more useful structure. I would imagine that some subcategories would be renamed accordingly, rather than all being blanket-deleted. BD2412 T 06:48, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
            • @BD2412: Alright, glad we could reach an agreement. The "___ set in fictional locations" categories can also be kept and renamed to "____ by fictional location". But the overly specific ones like "Works set on fictional moons" should be gotten rid of (probably by merging into their respective parent category).ZXCVBNM (TALK) 06:49, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
              • Except if there were enough subcategories to justify something like a Category:Works by fictional moon, though there clearly is not for that category. BD2412 T 06:52, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
                • @BD2412: Yes, I was about to correct myself there. They should just be wholesale deleted unless they contain a relevant subcategory.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 06:53, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
                  • I should also note to the closing admin that if this ends up being the result, the categories would become strictly container categories and therefore all articles within them that are not in sub-categories should be removed.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 07:48, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Ancient Roman Masters of the Horse

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:42, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: To match with and properly distinguish from Category:Magistri equitum (Roman Empire)‎. 'Master of the Horse' is a broad category of things and the Roman office is almost always referred to by its Latin name in most sources. Avilich (talk) 01:46, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Colombo Plan Scholars

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:42, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Colombo Plan Scholars
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD, WP:OVERLAPCAT)
The Colombo Plan is a regional intergovernmental organization representing countries in the Asia-Pacific region which encourages economic development. One of their programs provides scholarships for Asian students to study at a university abroad, and the articles are already in the alumni category for that school. I'm sure the award was defining for those promising young people but Wikipedia doesn't have articles on promising young people. By the time these people are notable, the award is no longer defining and only gets a passing mention usually in the education, or awards sections in articles like J. Soedjati Djiwandono, Seah Kian Peng or any others you want to click on. The contents are already listified here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:08, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Olmsted Scholars

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:41, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose Deleting Category:Olmsted Scholars
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD, WP:OVERLAPCAT)
The Olmsted Scholar Program is an American scholarship for young military personnel to attend foreign language and other studies at colleges abroad, and the articles are already in the alumni category for that school. I'm sure the award was defining for those promising young people but Wikipedia doesn't have articles on promising young people. By the time these people are notable, the award is no longer defining and only gets a passing mention usually in the education, awards or early career section in articles like John Abizaid, Carlisle Trost or any others you want to click on. The current contents are now fully listified here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:08, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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