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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:25, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Sound of Contact (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Not enough non-tangential links to provide useful navigation. Rob Sinden (talk) 10:44, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• weak delete, we can connect the articles through standard in-article linking. Frietjes (talk) 20:32, 12 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:19, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Letran Squires roster (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

unused and out-of-date Frietjes (talk) 22:14, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:19, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Leaders of the Opposition (Israel) (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

unused Frietjes (talk) 22:13, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:19, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Lebanon National Basketball Team roster (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

unused and out-of-date Frietjes (talk) 22:12, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:38, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:2013-14 Kanga Elite League Div A Team (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Appears to be a table for the 2013-14 season of the Dr HD Kanga Memorial Cricket League. The league itself is not first-class cricket, the season probably isn't notable enough for an article and the template is not transcluded anywhere. Joseph2302 19:42, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:38, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:2013-14 Kanga Elite League Div B Team (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Appears to be a table for the 2013-14 season of the Dr HD Kanga Memorial Cricket League. The league itself is not first-class cricket, the season probably isn't notable enough for an article and the template is not transcluded anywhere. Joseph2302 19:42, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:38, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:2013-14 Kanga Elite League Div C Team (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Appears to be a table for the 2013-14 season of the Dr HD Kanga Memorial Cricket League. The league itself is not first-class cricket, the season probably isn't notable enough for an article and the template is not transcluded anywhere. Joseph2302 19:42, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:38, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:2013-14 Kanga Elite League Div D Team (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Appears to be a table for the 2013-14 season of the Dr HD Kanga Memorial Cricket League. The league itself is not first-class cricket, the season probably isn't notable enough for an article and the template is not transcluded anywhere. Joseph2302 19:42, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:38, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:2013-14 Kanga Elite League Div E Team (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Appears to be a table for the 2013-14 season of the Dr HD Kanga Memorial Cricket League. The league itself is not first-class cricket, the season probably isn't notable enough for an article and the template is not transcluded anywhere. Joseph2302 19:42, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:38, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:2013-14 Kanga Elite League Div F Team (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Appears to be a table for the 2013-14 season of the Dr HD Kanga Memorial Cricket League. The league itself is not first-class cricket, the season probably isn't notable enough for an article and the template is not transcluded anywhere. Joseph2302 19:41, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:37, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:2013-14 Kanga Elite League Div G Team (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Appears to be a table for the 2013-14 season of the Dr HD Kanga Memorial Cricket League. The league itself is not first-class cricket, the season probably isn't notable enough for an article and the template is not transcluded anywhere. Joseph2302 19:41, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:37, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:2015-16 Kanga League Div A (Points) (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Appears to be a table for the 2015-16 season of the Dr HD Kanga Memorial Cricket League. The league itself is not first-class cricket, the season probably isn't notable enough for an article and the template is not transcluded anywhere. Joseph2302 19:40, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:19, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Continents by most used web browser (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

unused Frietjes (talk) 16:47, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Relisted on 2016 November 19 Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:18, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Communities of Oak Ridges, Ontario (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:10, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:College Baord (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

duplicates Template:College Board Frietjes (talk) 16:45, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:18, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:ClubLibertadLoaned (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

unused Frietjes (talk) 16:43, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:18, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:ClosedCatBeg (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:ClosedCatEnd (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

appears to be an unused fork of ((Cfd top)) and ((Cfd bottom)). Frietjes (talk) 16:41, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect Pppery 00:30, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:18, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Civil parishes of County Donegal (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

unused and generally duplicates Template:County Donegal Frietjes (talk) 16:39, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 03:49, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Ciu doc (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

documentation for a non-existing template Frietjes (talk) 16:38, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Speedy delete WP:G8. Pppery 00:41, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 03:46, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:List all children (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:Update children (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

unused Frietjes. could be moved to userspace? (talk) 14:14, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete they both relate to the now completely obsolete part of the automated taxobox system that attempted to generate child taxa. Peter coxhead (talk) 19:03, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• delete tool is dead, so it is dick useless not doing otherwise. Get someone to do something out of wikidata. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:08, 13 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As an aside, Wikidata is not the answer here: the taxonomy templates embody taxonomic opinion, and so need in-article referencing and can legitimately not be consistent between articles, because reliable sources currently use different approaches in different parts of the tree of life. Peter coxhead (talk) 07:31, 13 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was keep Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:18, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Artists by nationality (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Can be replaced by continent-topic templates. 2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE (talk) 13:32, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, Widely used and mirrors Template:Lists of women artists by nationality.14GTR (talk) 13:40, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, Can be replaced by continent-topic templates, but unless someone wants to do all that this is still the best option. PeRshGo (talk) 22:27, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:17, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:History of the world (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Unused and succeeded by continent-topic templates. 2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE (talk) 13:27, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:17, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Politics of the world (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Unused and succeeded by continent-topic templates. 2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE (talk) 13:27, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:17, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Economy of the world (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Unused and succeeded by continent-topic templates. 2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE (talk) 13:27, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:17, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Geography of the world (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Unused and succeeded by continent-topic templates. 2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE (talk) 13:27, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:17, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Music by country (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Unused and succeeded by continent-topic templates. 2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE (talk) 13:27, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:17, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Climate of the world (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Hardly used and succeeded by continent-topic templates. 2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE (talk) 13:27, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:17, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Higher education by country (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Hardly used and succeeded by continent-topic templates. 2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE (talk) 13:27, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:14, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Population of the world (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Unused, incorrect naming convention (all blue links are redirects). 2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE (talk) 13:27, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:14, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Foreign policy of the world (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Unused, much blue links are redirects. 2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE (talk) 13:27, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:14, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Philosophy of the world (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Unused, already included in philosophy template. 2001:DA8:201:3512:BCE6:D095:55F1:36DE (talk) 13:27, 7 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Relisted on 2016 November 19 Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:13, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Steel industry (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:Iron and steel production (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

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The result of the discussion was Relisted on 2016 November 19 Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:13, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Cocoa production (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:Chocolate (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

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The result of the discussion was Relisted on 2016 November 19 Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:13, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Cotton production (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:Cotton sidebar (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

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The result of the discussion was no consensus Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 00:13, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Grammy Award hosts (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:Academy Awards hosts (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:Primetime Emmy hosts (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:Tony Awards hosts (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Fails WP:PERFNAV. --Rob Sinden (talk) 11:08, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Keep -- Wait. What. Are you Holloween pranking? Your fails fails as a reason. Please make your case with an explanation and not a simplistic perjorative.

  These hostings seem to meet most/all of the Pro points of WP:PERFNAV, versus navigating a hosting category, which does not provide this snapshot, these are a great snapshot for researchers/historians/trivia buffs to see who has and when they have hosted, and how many times, consecutively or otherwise, a host has hosted. WurmWoode^T 14:05, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  These are performances, and as such they fail WP:PERFNAV. Avoid adding performances of entertainers into the navboxes for the productions that they appeared in, etc... I think you're reading a different bit of the guideline. They put WP:UNDUE weight on the individual's page of the hosting of a ceremony over other works that these performers have participated in. The information you mention should already be on the articles (see List of Grammy Award ceremony locations#Ceremonies for example), if not these can be listified. --Rob Sinden (talk) 14:12, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  1. For others to see, maybe your reply above should be moved/appended to your opening statement" fails.
  2. Respectfuly, that table of ceremonies and tons of information therein you point to helps makes my case— not a snapshot, not easy on the eyes, and buried in the middle of the article. versus these templates as a concise snapshot and versus your suggestion of a (necessarily sprawled out) list.

  Also, my point as navigation aide these hostings are not undue or distractive from the ceremonies precisely because they facilitate the other purpose of anyone needing to just access/work with the hosts iinstead of working with the ceremonies per se. WurmWoode^T 14:58, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• delete, navbox cruft. navigation between hosts can be accomplished through the main article. Frietjes (talk) 18:38, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  The main article does not provide as visually concise a "snapshot" versus the long linear table within the main article.

  Well, I am not locked into keeping "nice ideas" (templates) when they are not used.

  So, is there a tool?— to verify/count/statistics on click-throughs on links provided in templates— that is, some proof, some graph reflecting increasing/declining/no usage of navigation aides such as these? Therefore, it can not be cruft if it has demonstrated utility. WurmWoode^T 21:22, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  the fact that the main article doesn't currently have a concise list, doesn't mean it can't have a concise list. List of Grammy Award ceremony locations does a good job of summarizing, as do the other ceremonies articles. if this were an important grouping we would have List of Grammy Award ceremony hosts, for example. Frietjes (talk) 22:17, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  BUT, is there a tool to graph/analyze how useful, ARE viewers clicking on links from these nav templates versus a link from within the article body. How is it determined if such navigation is used/useful??

  Should this be a template or should it be a list?— mayhaps it should have all started as a list

  So, create a list x, amend template ((Academy Awards lists)), and then visit each and every host or other article and remove the host template(s), some persons have hosted different awards ceremonies, and add to the See also a link to an appropriate List of x award hosts.

  And now the viewer navigation changes from dropping down to the bottom of the article, and one-click on the Show button, the viewer has to find the See also and then click List of x award hosts. WurmWoode^T 00:21, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Keep -- TheGreenGiant23 (talk) 06:57, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • @TheGreenGiant23: Why? Pppery

• Keep I see the argument, but WP:PERFNAV is about show-specific navboxes giving WP:UNDUE weight to particular performances, and in these cases I think it's due weight. While hosting the award isn't quite as prestigous as receiving one, it's considered significant, and the navboxes can be considered to be analogous to things like Template:Academy Award Best Actor. (If this logic is accepted, I think a note about this interpretation of WP:PERFNAV should be added to the relevant template documentation, to forestall further proliferation which would violate the spirit of WP:PERFNAV.) 71.41.210.146 (talk) 16:04, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, basically per nom. These are pretty much a textbook case of 'performer by performance'. Hosting the Oscars, Grammys, etc can be significant to a performer's career, but I don't think it's so overwhelmingly important that it needs to be highlighted in a navbox. Robofish (talk) 00:01, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per IP's argument. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 21:33, 17 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was merge with the article and delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 04:25, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:TPO2013riders (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template only used once, in List of 2013 UCI Women's Teams and riders. Text can be transcluded there. The Banner talk 22:21, 10 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep template used twice at the moment. Part of a series of Cycling team templates. Sander.v.Ginkel ^(Talk) 07:54, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Sander. These templates are part of a bigger established series. Lugnuts ^{Precious bodily fluids} 08:19, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete The riders in the 2013 group are there. That information isn't going to change. There is no reason to have a template (even if used on multiple pages) to convey information that is completely static. Primefac (talk) 03:09, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as per Primefac and because Sander.v.Ginkel transcluded this template a second time on the team page as a "current roster" despite being from a past year. We don't keep every historical roster on a team page, obviously. Remove the transclusion made to WP:GAME the TfDs and we're back at one, which should be substituted. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 14:49, 20 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• merge/delete, the season is over. Frietjes (talk) 15:44, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

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The result of the discussion was merge with the article and delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 04:33, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:TIB2014riders (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template only used once, in List of 2014 UCI Women's Teams and riders. Text can be transcluded there. The Banner talk 22:21, 10 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep template used twice at the moment. Part of a series of Cycling team templates. Sander.v.Ginkel ^(Talk) 07:53, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Sander. These templates are part of a bigger established series. Lugnuts ^{Precious bodily fluids} 08:19, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete The riders in the 2014 group are there. That information isn't going to change. There is no reason to have a template (even if used on multiple pages) to convey information that is completely static. Primefac (talk) 03:09, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as per Primefac and because Sander.v.Ginkel transcluded this template a second time on the team page as a "current roster" despite being from a past year. We don't keep every historical roster on a team page, obviously. Remove the transclusion made to WP:GAME the TfDs and we're back at one, which should be substituted. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 14:50, 20 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• merge/delete, the season is over. Frietjes (talk) 15:44, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

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The result of the discussion was merge with the article and delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 04:17, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:OPW2014riders (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template only used once, in List of 2014 UCI Women's Teams and riders. Text can be transcluded there. The Banner talk 22:21, 10 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep template used twice at the moment. Part of a series of Cycling team templates. Sander.v.Ginkel ^(Talk) 07:53, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Sander. These templates are part of a bigger established series. Lugnuts ^{Precious bodily fluids} 08:19, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete The riders in the 2014 group are there. That information isn't going to change. There is no reason to have a template (even if used on multiple pages) to convey information that is completely static. Primefac (talk) 03:09, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as per Primefac and because Sander.v.Ginkel transcluded this template a second time on the team page as a "current roster" despite being from a past year. We don't keep every historical roster on a team page, obviously. Remove the transclusion made to WP:GAME the TfDs and we're back at one, which should be substituted. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 14:50, 20 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• merge/delete, the season is over. Frietjes (talk) 15:44, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

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The result of the discussion was merge with the article and delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 04:07, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:GPC2014riders (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template only used once, in List of 2014 UCI Women's Teams and riders. Text can be transcluded there. The Banner talk 22:22, 10 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep template used twice at the moment. Part of a series of Cycling team templates. Sander.v.Ginkel ^(Talk) 07:53, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Sander. These templates are part of a bigger established series. Lugnuts ^{Precious bodily fluids} 08:19, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete The riders in the 2014 group are there. That information isn't going to change. There is no reason to have a template (even if used on multiple pages) to convey information that is completely static. Primefac (talk) 03:08, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as per Primefac and because Sander.v.Ginkel transcluded this template a second time on the team page as a "current roster" despite being from a past year. We don't keep every historical roster on a team page, obviously. Remove the transclusion made to WP:GAME the TfDs and we're back at one, which should be substituted. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 14:50, 20 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• merge/delete, the season is over. Frietjes (talk) 15:44, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was merge with the article and delete Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 04:07, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:GPC2013riders (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template only used once, in List of 2013 UCI Women's Teams and riders. Text can be transcluded there. The Banner talk 22:22, 10 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep template used twice at the moment. Part of a series of Cycling team templates. Sander.v.Ginkel ^(Talk) 07:52, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Sander. These templates are part of a bigger established series. Lugnuts ^{Precious bodily fluids} 08:19, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete The riders in the 2013 group are there. That information isn't going to change. There is no reason to have a template (even if used on multiple pages) to convey information that is completely static. Primefac (talk) 03:08, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as per Primefac and because Sander.v.Ginkel transcluded this template a second time on the team page as a "current roster" despite being from a past year. We don't keep every historical roster on a team page, obviously. Remove the transclusion made to WP:GAME the TfDs and we're back at one, which should be substituted. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 14:50, 20 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• merge/delete, the season is over. Frietjes (talk) 15:44, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

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The result of the discussion was keep Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 03:17, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:′ (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

This template is not required for its documented purpose, as prime symbol does not conflict with italics. Pppery 13:23, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep – It may be easy to mistake ' for ′ in the edit window, it helps with readability of the wikitext. nyuszika7h (talk) 18:07, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Nyuszika7H: I feel silly arguing against a supporting voice, but how does the template address that confusion? Its purpose is to add a small gap before the prime to reduce visual confusion when the preceding letter is italic, just as ((')) does for an apostrophe. The wiki editor still needs to know that difference. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 06:07, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• (Template creator here) Did you look at the example in the docs? f′(x) ≥ 0 (or f′(x) ≥ 0)? On Windows/IE, Windows/Firefox and Linux/Firefox, the prime overlaps the f to the point of invisibility. (It's visible if you know what to look for, but it looks like a strongly hooked terminal serif if you don't.) As the docs explain, it serves the same function as, and has the same basic justification as, the well-established ((')) template, just for a slightly different symbol.

Perhaps we aren't agreeing on the meaning of the word "conflicts"? I mean that the characters overlap so much that the prime is indistinguishable, resulting in confusion for the reader. In that sense, I have to say that your assertion that it "does not conflict" is flatly incorrect. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 19:59, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

((')) is necessary if you want to say "the cat​'ll meow", as the '''cat''''ll meow gets interpreted as the approstrophe being bold. A similar issue does not exist for the prime symbol; that is f′ can be typed without needing spacing or a special template. That is what I mean by 'doesn't conflict'. Pppery 23:13, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, good point! Yes, that wikisource conflict applies only to the ASCII ' character and was probably the original reason for creating ((')). But the current template also adds a bit of space, as do other related templates like ((" ')) and ((-))), which aren't addressing the '' vs. ''' confusion. I created ((′)) for the spacing reason only. It's really awkward in the wikisource when a tiny accent expands to <span class="nowrap" style="padding-left:0.15em;">′</span>.

As the doc says, what I'd really like is something analogous to TeX's \/ italic correction (both sensitive to the preceding character's height, and small in the markup), but I can't find anything like that in wikitext, the Template: name space, or HTML/CSS. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 03:26, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• (Template creator here) I'd like to get this moving, so here's a brief summary:
  • I have applications for this template (notably simplifying Special:diff/745956823), but am not using it pending this discussion.
  • @Pppery: seems to be confused about "its documented purpose". This may indicate a documentation problem, which I'd be happy to fix if someone can point out the confusing part.
  • It's supposed to be for adding whitespace, and while of course it's not required, it's useful for that purpose because the markup it replaces is bulky.
  • ((')) does two things: allows a ' character to be inserted adjacent to wiki markup for bold and italic, and adds a bit of preceding whitespace so that the ' is distinguishable from preceding italic letters: "The Meaning of Liff's list of invented words...". (vs. "The Meaning of Liff's" using <nowiki />'s.) ((′)) is required only for the latter, and if anyone thinks the documentation implies it is useful for the former, that's a documentation error to be fixed.

71.41.210.146 (talk) 13:38, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I did in fact misinterpret the doc, and wonder about the usefulness of this template, especially when you can accomplish something similar using <math>...</math> tags, like <math> \ f^{\prime}</math>, producing ${\displaystyle \ f^{\prime ))$. Pppery 13:47, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Pppery: Thank you for the clarification! I'm sorry we were talking past each other for a while there. Yes, you can use <math> to get the spacing right, but that text is quite visually distinct from body text, and both straight italics and ((math)) are used extensively in STEM articles to avoid such a jarring appearance in running text. So they need a solution as well. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 16:22, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per above. I'm wondering if it won't be neater to have the template accept an argument, for example ((prime|f)) for f′. That way the spacing could be adjusted according to the preceding character. – Uanfala (talk) 20:13, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Uanfala: H'mm... that's more ambitious than I was planning (I was considering allowing an explicit spacing specification), but not a horrible idea. Since the number of possible spacings is small (characters are go into groups which share the spacing), I could take the last character with ((#invoke:String|pos|argument|-1)), and then look it up in an if-chain with ((#invoke:String|find|abcde|letter)). We could at least cover the standard Latin and Greek alphabets.

The big problem is that the correct spacing is font-dependent, and I don't know the user's display fonts, so it's all a guess. But I don't think a rough guess is making it worse. (I spent a while playing with Unicode zero-width characters to see if there existed one that would get the kerning right, but no joy.)

So I'm thinking the following: ((prime|prefix|as-if|sp=0.1em)) The prefix parameter (({1))} is displayed, but the spacing is derived from the as-if parameter (({2))}, which defaults to the last character of the prefix, but may be given separately if trailing markup in the prefix would confuse things. (Doing it this way allows a double pipe ((prime|as-if)) to compactly ask for no displayed prefix.) (({sp))} gives an explicit spacing that overrides all of the preceding.

I'd do it with one sub-template: a ((′/calc_space|as-if)) which does the computation and returns the spacing. The parent template would invoke it if (({sp))} isn't given... (({1|))}<span class="nowrap" style="padding-left:(({sp|((′/calc_space|(({2|((#invoke:String|pos|(({1|f))}|-1))))))))));">′</span> The default to 'f' provides maximum space if unspecified.

Does that seem like a reasonable plan? 71.41.210.146 (talk) 11:48, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Second thoughts: Probably the calculation template should not be here, but a sub-template of Template:italics correction. Maybe Template:Italics correction/calc? Then both templates can use it. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 12:04, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have almost no knowledge of typography so I'm afraid I won't be of much use. But yes, that sounds like a good idea. – Uanfala (talk) 14:36, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Uanfala: It wasn't the typography I was asking about, but the Wikipedia template design & implementation. Are those good parameters? Does that seem like a reasonably efficient implementation? And should I start work now, or wait for this TfD wraps up? 71.41.210.146 (talk) 16:02, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know much about templates either, but the parameters look usable enough, and it's sensible to have the calculation done in one place where it can be used by multiple templates. As for efficiency, if you have experience of lua, it'll be better to do it with a module. If not, it's OK – I don't think computational efficiency should be much of an issue. – Uanfala (talk) 16:10, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was Delete, no objections. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 03:53, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Agrl (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Template:lst, the same type of template for a different feature, was deleted in July. The same reasons apply. Pppery 20:45, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• For reference the original reason was Unnecessary template. Why is it necessary to abstract a link to [Help:Automatically generated reference list] into a template?. Primefac (talk) 21:48, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was no consesus Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 03:16, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Template:Halloweentown (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

I don't think there are enough articles here for a navbox. nyuszika7h (talk) 18:02, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per WP:NENAN, specifically the part that recommends that a WP:NAVBOX link at least 5 articles, which this one does. Steel1943 (talk) 23:36, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).