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I have completed the expansion and added sources at a industry standar rate. Please note that some of them are not available on Amazon but simply because something is not on Amazon does not mean it doesn't exist, check Worldcat. Enjoy! Jkrefft May 6th, 2014
I am going to take a few days and expand this. Its a god start but we need additional prelude information and analysis. This Battle is really important in the evolution of naval weaponry as it was the first substantial battle to use shell firing guns. Please dont panic if citations and hyperlinks dont appear right away. They will, please note I have a job and needy wives. Jkrefft March 21st, 2014
Guns
The description of Velikiy Knyaz Konstantin as having 120 guns conflicts strongly with the page it is linked to. Could they be two different ships of the same name? Kd5mdk20:05, 1 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
yes of course. I'm not sure how to distinguish in terms of page names... perhaps just put the launch date on each? there seems to be several different styles on wikipedia for doing this.
I support the merge. The order of battle for an article should nnot h ave a seperate page but it should be part of the article of the battle. Kyriakos21:43, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Someone deleted a comment about the British ambassador only sending frigates to Sinope possibly in the hope that the Russians would attack Turkey. It's true that there had been some minor fighting before this battle, but nothing that would really "justify" intervention by Britain and France until this battle. So I think it's still a possibility?
SpookyMulder (talk) 04:29, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Is it a Battle or just a Bust
someone should revise the article, because it contains some funny things like "battle with non-moved turkish ships"? damn, its not a batle. its typical bust--Orkh (talk) 16:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm listening now to a history course by prof. Robert I. Wiener. He says that the Battle was called "the massacre of Sinop" by English press and a propaganda campaing was unleashed to make a pretext for invasion into Crimea. Would be interesting to find sources and add this information. --CopperKettle (talk) 11:42, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, this needs to be in the article, it is the major significance of the battle in the larger world historical context. Issue313 (talk) 20:02, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OK, added a brief paragraph about it. The propaganda aspect of this battle is fascinating, anyone who has more to contribute should do so.
Issue313 (talk) 02:09, 17 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Battleship or Ship of the Line
I'm not sure that the use of the word battleship to describe some of the Russian ships is the best description. Although it may be technically acurate the word is most often used in association with post Dreadnought ships and that is the umage it conjures up. Ship of the line seems much more appropriate and acurate to me. IanOfNorwich (talk) 11:43, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Why is it not mentioned in the article that the Russians had 37 killed and 233 wounded and the Turkish had more than 3000 killed and wounded? Corvi cantus (talk) 21:51, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you have a reliable source that described it as " the Ambush of Sinop", by all means bring it to the discussion. Otherwise, "Battle of Sinop" is the accepted term.
Anyway, an ambush is still a battle; the Battle of Dorylaeum was an ambush, but we still refer to it as a battle.
And Russia and the Turks had been at war for a while before it happened, so it wasn't some kind of sneak attack; the Ottoman fleet was caught unprepared, and suffered accordingly. Xyl 54 (talk) 05:13, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Paixhans guns
I know absolutely nothing about this battle; I came here from the Paixhans gun article. That article claims that the Paixhans guns used by the Russians were absolutely decisive in this battle, and not only determined the outcome of the battle but heralded the demise of the wooden warship. Our Ironclad warship article seems to support this, with every major navy starting plans for ironclads within 2 or 3 years of this battle, and the first ironclads launched 6 years later. That article also includes the statement:
It is often held that the power of explosive shells to smash wooden hulls, as demonstrated by the Russian destruction of a Turkish squadron at the Battle of Sinope, spelled the end of the wooden-hulled warship.[8]
It is also notable that the description of the damage to the Turkish ships is similar to the testing of the prototype Paixhans gun against the Pacificateur.
At present, this article doesn't mention Paixhans guns, or the nature of the Russian armament at all. If it is true that the Russians used Paixhans guns, and that this was a signal moment in naval warfare, could a more knowledgeable person please add this to the article? -- 202.63.39.58 (talk) 12:40, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Is this linking to the right guy? His article says he was in the infantry during 1852-53, makes no mention of this battle. I had thought the commander of the battle was actually English? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.133.58 (talk) 02:26, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Requested move 27 November 2014
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Battle of Sinop → 1853 Battle of Sinop – There's been many battles at Sinop, Turkey; including the 1214 Siege of Sinope, so this should move to have a year attached, and Battle of Sinope should become a set index article listing battles at Sinop/Sinope, with the current title "Battle of Sinop" redirecting to it. A prose list of battles currently is found in the city article's history section. -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 08:07, 27 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Discussion
Any additional comments:
Description of the Battle
This part doesn't sound right to me:
"Nakhimov arranged his force between the Ottomans and the shore batteries shielding his own force and exposing the Ottomans to potential friendly fire."
I'm in no way an expert in naval tactics, but wouldn't it be against common sense to place yourself between the enemy an the enemy's shore batteries? If Nakhimov kept the anchored turkish fleet between himself and the batteries this would make more sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.104.221.90 (talk) 09:27, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
Found a (possibly nearly contemporary) map of the battle and it would suggest the more logical disposition of Nakhimov to the south of the anchored ottoman fleet instead of between it and the shore batteries: "http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/artwork/63682" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.104.221.90 (talk) 09:39, 30 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And if you wish to re-write and/or removal said information, bring a source that was not published in 1869. I have no problems with re-writing or removal as long as the information is referenced by a modern source. Explain exactly what "obviously errorneous information" you wanted removed. --Kansas Bear (talk) 06:59, 14 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This paragraph:
"The attack was seen by external powers as unjustified, as it was believed that Russia had no need to fear the Ottomans. It was referred to in the British press as the 'Massacre of Sinope', and caused a wave of anti-Russian sentiment in Western Europe."[Marjie Bloy source]
"The attack strengthened the pro-war factions in Britain and France, and provided them with the justification for a war to curb Russia bellicosity. Hawks in London pointed to Russian tactics as violating both the accepted articles of war and human morality. The shelling on Sinop Harbor and attacking ships of a lower class were both considered war crimes. Several doves attempted to stem the patriotic fervor, arguing that a global war with Russia over the Ottoman Empire was a waste of British talent and treasure. Lord Palmerston resigned over the affair and numerous anti-war articles ran in Paris and London. In the end however war hawks in the National Government won out and Sinop was seen as a just cause for war."[unsourced]
"In November 1853 the Russian Black Sea fleet based at Sevastopol and the Turkish fleet met at the Battle of Sinope. The Turkish fleet was sunk. It was a provocative action by Russia because she had no real reason to fear Turkey. The affair was reported in the British press as the 'Massacre of Sinope', and caused fever-pitch anti-Russian feeling among the public. It also strengthened the 'war faction' in the Cabinet, for unexplained and obscure reasons. Perhaps a combination of reasons were responsible: it has been argued that
perhaps the long peace — since 1815 — had created a desire for war. It provoked patriotism and expressed the British cock-sure attitude which resulted from her economic, territorial and free trade strength
Sinope was a naval victory: Russia clearly had a Black Sea fleet which needed to be defeated before it got into the Mediterranean. The British felt that the Russian naval threat could not be allowed to grow
Britain was becoming more and more dependent on trade, especially with India and the east: Sinope followed the Great Exhibition of 1851 that had demonstrated Britain's industrial pre-eminence in the world. The Mediterranean trade and the routes to India could not be jeopardised
In Britain, the 'war party' had been growing since the summer of 1853.
Even moderate papers like The Times demanded retribution before Russia over-ran Turkey: Russia could do this legitimately, since Turkey was the country that had declared war on Russia. Demands were made for a British fleet to be sent to the Straits, but the Cabinet was divided between 'war' and 'peace' factions, resulting in indecision. Clarendon, the British Foreign Secretary said that Britain was 'drifting towards war' — something that Aberdeen was trying to avoid. However, he was in an impossible position because not to help Turkey would lead to an expansion of Russian power and to help Turkey meant war. Aberdeen let events drift towards war by indecision in preventing it. By Christmas 1853, the British government was left with little choice." --Kansas Bear (talk) 07:14, 14 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"The attack was treated by external powers as unjustified and caused a wave of anti-Russian sentiment in Western Europe. Much of the British press characterized the one-sided surprise attack as the "Massacre of Sinope" and a war crime, although there was nothing illegal or even unusual about the attack.[Marjie Bloy source][1869 source]"
The Bloy source makes no mention of "war crime", therefore it can be removed. IF the 1869 source states, "although there was nothing illegal or even unusual about the attack.", then it is not needed, much less is unreliable and outdated.
To which this part;
"The attack strengthened the pro-war factions in Britain and France, and provided them with the justification for a war to curb Russia bellicosity. Several doves attempted to stem the patriotic fervor, arguing that a global war with Russia over the Ottoman Empire was a waste of British talent and treasure. Lord Palmerston resigned over the affair and numerous anti-war articles ran in Paris and London. In the end however war hawks in the National Government won out and Sinop was seen as a just cause for war, although ultimately the real motivation was to curb Russian expansion in accordance with a balance of power strategy."
is unsourced. So your argument, "you are continually re-inserting obviously erroneous info that has no source at all" and "you're literally inserting entirely unsourced and obviously false claims back into the article while you complain about the source", has no basis.
it is ridiculous to expect me to real all this rambling garbage. congratulations, you have successfully bluffed off a more knowledgeable editor with your passive aggressive idiot wiki bureaucrat routine. this article will continue to feature childishly ridiculously claims that it's a war crime to attack weaker forces. TiC(talk)08:11, 14 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Since all you can do is personal attacks, I have removed the unsourced information, the unreliable source(1869), and added references to the rest of the paragraph. Next time, your personal attack will be reported. OH, and FYI, a " more knowledgeable editor" would not use a nearly 150 yr old source. LMAO. --Kansas Bear (talk) 09:01, 14 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]