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Is extinct the right word to use when a nation or ethnic group dies out? I've only seen extinct used about animal species.--Sonjaaa 13:06, Sep 4, 2004 (UTC)
Extinct would be the correct word to use if the Beothuck were extinct. As it is, there are about 50 000 of us living. You are simply repeating government propaganda. If you are interested in the truth of the maytter, please communicate with me. Dr. Ronald Ryan. execontrol@gmail.com. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.163.80.132 (talk) 23:18, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
Date of Santu's song changed from 1929 to 1910 on the grounds of Beothuk language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.238.5.5 (talk • contribs) 13:25, 12 January (UTC)2005
I was taught in grade 9 history/social studies that great numbers of the Beothuk were basically rounded up and mass murdered by european settlers, and this was largely how they became extinct.... can't remember any specific texts, but I find it interesting that there's no mention of that here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.216.91.171 (talk • contribs) 08:46, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
This page contains quite few small erros, and should probably be rewritten. In response the the above person, that is completely wrong. The Beothuk basically moved inland and starved to death as Europeans drove them from the coast. Which I learned from a 3000 level Newfoundland History course offered at MUN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.153.96.40 (talk • contribs) 21:42, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
I heard that some of the Beothuks were reported to have red hair and other Norse characteristics, from contact with the norse during Leif Erickson's time. Anyone else heard this theory? Ernestleonard 04:03, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
MUN being Memorial University of *Newfoundland*, wouldn't it raise some questions for the university to completely deny that the Beothuk were eradicated by European settlers in Newfoundland? CKSCIII 00:26, 8 April 2006 (UTC) .....................................
Unfortunately, the link to the Beothuk song no longer works. I contacted the CBC about it but they said they could not release it due to copyright problems. I wrote a letter to the email address I got for the Professor who spoke about it on the program but never got any reply. Can anyone else help out here? It would be wonderful to be able to listen to it again.
As to the Beothuks becoming "extinct" - the situation is rather like that of the Tasmanian Aboriginals in Australia. There are, of course, no "full-blood" people left, and the culture has disappeared - however, there are descendants of the Beothuks (and my family claim to be among them). We are making arrangements at the moment to have DNA studies done and I will report here if and when we get some results. In the meantime you might like to check the link I have just made to an article (downloadable in pdf form) which refers to some fascinating DNA research done at McMaster University on DNA taken from Beothuk skulls.
Finally, as to the question about whether some of the Beothuk had Norse characteristics - I have never heard anything like this and imagine it is probably just a story based on the fact that there was a brief Norse settlement at Anse aux Meadows. As far as I know, the Norse sagas indicate that relations with the "Skraelings" were not friendly (can someone who really knows help out here please?) and so it is unlikely there would have been enough mixing (if any) to make such a major contribution to the gene pool. I would suspect that, if there were any Beothuk with red hair, etc., it would more likely have come from early English, French or Basque fishermen. The drawings of the Beothuk women taken to St. John's show them with straight black hair and features that look mainly Amerinidian. Also, photos of my ancestors, who family tradition insist were part Beothuk, show pronounced typical Amerindian looks. John Hill 22:49, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
In a visit to the new large museum in St. John's in June, 2006 I read that it is unlikely that the Beothuk existed in Newfoundland at the time of the Norse settlements at L'anse aux meadows. The thinking is that the Beothuk came to Newfoundland after the arrival and departure of the Norse. The museum text stated that the "skraelings" which the norse came in contact with were probably in Labrador. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.29.6.116 (talk • contribs) 17:10, 27 August 2007
This site is simply a pooling of ignorance and gossip. For example, "There are, of course, no "full-blood" people left, and the culture has disappeared." What do you mean by "full blood?" and, "What was the culture that no longer exists? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.163.80.132 (talk) 23:21, 17 November 2021 (UTC) Rev. Dr. Ronald Ryan, B.Sc., B.Ed., DA., PhD., Rev. St. John's, NL
I removed the following quote from the body of the article. The sentiment is admirable and apt, but I think our purpose here is to document, not mourn (not overtly, anyway). Regards, Rodney Boyd 14:58, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
I think they did an excellent job on this!! I did other research and it was almost right on!! GOOD JOB!:) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.111.39.110 (talk • contribs) 03:46, 13 September 2006
"The Labrador" Link is now bad. They only keep the past three months issues available online. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.116.223.190 (talk) 04:54, 6 December 2006 (UTC).
In the last sentence of the first paragraph, should "previous" be "subsequent"? I hesitate to change it, as it might reverse the contributor's intended meaning. DavidOaks 21:09, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I have a question. Should I put that "Nancy April was believed to have been the last beothuk"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.116.202.195 (talk) 15:12, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Until the DNA testing is done, I think the part about people having possible genetic ties to the Beothuk should be removed. It is only speculation at this point and might only be the result of shoddy research or rumour. Anyone could make such claims. Would they all get mentioned here? But, if testing proves otherwise, it should of course be added.
Jmutford 13:35, 2 May 2007 (UTC)John
In reply to John's comments above - I would point out that the section about present-day descendants of the Beothuk is clearly introduced as "oral history" and "family history," so there is no chance that the stories can be mistaken for well-recorded historical "facts."
DNA testing is now being done on a female descendant of Susannah Manuel (Anstey) - who is directly descended through the female line - but it may prove inconclusive as so little is known about Beothuk DNA to compare it with. Only a couple of specimens from two skulls have so far been tested (see the link to the pdf article on these tests).
However, the stories are not solely based on "rumour" or "shoddy research," but on strong and persistent family traditions (maintained over the years in spite of prejudice against people of "Indian" descent). Furthermore, copies of a (rather unclear) photo of Susannah Manuel (Anstey), and a much clearer one of her daughter, Mary Pond (née Anstey, 1858-1895) are in my possession. The photo of Mary Pond, especially, clearly shows facial features indicating native American descent. While this certainly does not "prove" anything on its own (and could possibly be explained away as a result of Mi'kmaq or Inuit inheritance), it does add some credence to the strong family traditions of Beothuk descent.
So, my feeling is that, as the family traditions are clearly marked as "oral history" and, as so very little is known about the Beothuk and their ultimate fate, the stories should remain because of their inherent interest. They may also help spur further interest and, hopefully, discoveries. Also, I believe that, when there is a lack of firmly established historical facts and written records, there is a valid place for family histories, legendary accounts, and the like in the Wikipedia - so long as they are clearly marked as such. Many other articles in the Wikipedia refer to legendary and mythological material, and it is commonly accepted by scholars that such material often contains valid historical information.
If and when the results of the recent DNA tests become available (and depending on the permission of the person having the tests done) they may well be published. If so, they will be reported on here. John Hill 00:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Sanjaaa that the use of the term 'extinct' is highly problematic, its modern usage is only appropriate in the context of non-human species. What happened to the Beothuk people was genocide and clearly fits the definitions stipulated in the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (1948/1951). A more accurate reflection of land-theft, racist policies, and a chronology of Settler massacres of Beothuk communities needs to be added to this entry. Using "extinction" and minimizing the direct agency of European settlers in stealing Beothuk lands, massacring whole communities, and enslaving the people (most notably women) is highly problematic practice tantamount to genocide denial. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Petokraka78 (talk • contribs) 12:57, 7 July 2007
I removed the speculative part about the Beothuks having a bloodline that may or may not still exist today. Again, I maintain that it should only be added if proven, but not until that point- not even as "oral history." History, as is my understanding of the term, should be as close to fact as possible and does not include rumours. Reading John Hill's Wikipedia User Profile, I see the sentence "I am of English and French background with a dash of Beothuk" as if this is already an accepted fact. Romantic as an idea as that is, it isn't proven. I find the motivations of people making such claims too suspect and even offensive. I do not agree that mythological and legendary material has a place in this particular article, as John Hill implies above. They were a very real people. Jmutford 03:52, 23 August 2007 (UTC)John
Dear John: I am not trying to argue with you but the "oral histories" I referred to are not based solely on speculation - there is some evidence. Unfortunately, there is no complete "proof." But then, what and how is anything completely "proven"? After all, there are many articles in the Wikipedia with statements such as: "so-and-so had a French (or a Jewish or a German or an American) father". Now, how can this possibly be "proven" without actual DNA testing? Yet we generally accept church records and family traditions on such matters.
There is a very strong and persistent family tradition that we are part Beothuk (and my mother, myself and brother and sister have all been to Twillingate, Lewisporte and other places in northern Newfoundland, where we checked with a number of our relatives who all confirmed this story). Also, we have copies of photos of Susannah Manuel (Anstey), 1832-1911, who is supposed to have been half Beothuk, and her daughter Mary Pond (Anstey) 1858-1895, which show strong "Native American facial features". I can provide scans of these if anyone wishes - though the one of Mary Pond (Anstey) is much clearer than that of her mother.
Now, of course, someone might say that the facial features could have been due to mixing with Mi'kmaq or other native peoples, but this seems most unlikely to have happened so early in the region near the mouth of the Exploits River - and the family stories are quite clear about later mixing with the Mi'kmaq in some (but not all) branches of the family. All sources agree that Susannah Manuel (who was born in Lewisporte in 1832) definitely had a Beothuk mother.
This seems very possible indeed, as Shanawdithit (who died in 1829 and is often billed as the "last of the Beothuk") reported that a number of men and women (some 12 or 13 in all) from her tribe managed to escape when she was captured. Ingeborg Marshall in her excellent book, A History and Ethnography of the Beothuk, pp. 224-225, reports a number of sightings and incidents involving Beothuk in this region after 1829 - from 1834 to at least 1845, and there is a report that Beothuks "had lived in the watershed area of Bay St. George in the 1840s and 1850s and were said to have intermarried with the whites."
My mother and sister have paid to have DNA studies done and, while all the results are not back yet, it is unlikely they will "prove" much definitely either way - as there is only some DNA garnered from two stolen Beothuk skulls to compare it with - not enough for a proper sampling. Hopefully, though, they may give some supportive evidence. When and if any evidence is forthcoming from these studies I will certainly post it on this page.
While it is usual for material in the Wikipedia to require some well-referenced source for information such as this - it is my belief that, because so very little is known about the Beothuk people, whatever crumbs of information have survived are precious and should be recorded. The fact that a number oral stories and photos are the only "evidence" we have at the moment should, I believe, be of enough interest for a short entry with, of course, appropriate qualifications.
I would be very grateful to hear what other people think on this subject or if they have anything to add to these stories. Please reply on this page or, if you wish, contact me directly at: wynhill@bigpond.com Many thanks, John Hill 06:38, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Ah, that song, I used to actually have that recording too from the CBC, but at some point I must have lost it. It's nowhere to be found on my hard-drive now. If anyone out there does still have it, it would be good to hear it. User:Benstox 3:56, 14 August 2008.
Thanks again to another wandering Italian. Giovani Caboto and his imported Mikmak's, proceed to murder and starve the native population for the good of the foriegn country payings his wages. Think Columbus was bad. There are No more beothuks' left. 76.71.17.88 (talk) 06:09, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
How exactly are Demasduit, Shanawdithit, and Nonosbawsut not the names of the people in question? The article is inconsistent on the formatting, and MOS:Ety says "A proper name is usually not italicized when it is used, but it may be italicized when the name itself is being referred to (see Words as words)." There are a few instances where the wrds could perhaps fall on the mention side of use-mention (if anything, Mary March looks like it could be that), but for the other instances, if they really aren't names then that should be mentioned in the article and the formatting made consistent. Ergative rlt (talk) 05:21, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
The phrase "discrete ethnic group" is used in the last sentence of the lead. Is this some ethnographer's use of discrete that I'm not aware of, or should this read perhaps "distinct"? The Interior (Talk) 01:19, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
Does the claim that red ochre led to the term "red Indians" need a citation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.6.71.171 (talk • contribs) 00:24, 1 January 2013
Marshall does not claim that "most modern linguists and historians" support the Algonquian hypothesis, her actual words are that there is a "tendency" to support Alogonquian. Also, note that Marshall's work is a general overview from 1996, while Mithun and Campbell are both specialist works on the history and classification of North American languages, postdate Marshall, and list Beothuk outside of Algic/Alogonquian.
Mithun additionally does not hedge by saying "definite purely linguistic based judgements", and anyway linguistic judgements are the only sort that are valid for linguistic classification.
The claim that "certain linguistic sources regarded it as a language isolate, linked to assumptions about the isolation of the Beothuk from the rest of North America" is supported by Holly only with regards to a single source: Gatschet, writing in the 19th century, with the possibility of other, unnamed early researchers doing the same. These notions aren't involved in the modern debates about the classification of the Beothuk language, and Holly doesn't claim they are. Furthermore, the "all fail to support the isolation argument" is about claims of geographical/cultural isolation, not status as a linguistic isolate, as the surrounding context make clear. Using supposed isolation (per Gatschet) to imply a status of isolate is clearly wrong, but at the same time status as an isolate does not imply cultural/geographic isolation, nor do cultural/geograhic connections imply linguistic relatedness: these are distinct concerns, which Holly makes clear later in the article. Holly in fact never states whether Beothuk is an isolate or not, instead focusing on how claims about the Beothuk language have been used as fodder for those engaging in an ethnographic othering of the Beothuk - a process not limited to those favoring status as an isolate, as several authors mentioned as being responsible for such othering are explicitly treating the Beothuk as an Algoquian group. Ergative rlt (talk) 17:34, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
The people who write about the Beothuck language have no idea what the beoithuck language was or is. Neither Marshall nor Hewson nor any of the other "experts." They even ignored the information in sources that they quote. I, on the other hand, do know what the language was and, furthermore, there were still active speakers of that language until at least 1939. It was not Algonquin! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.163.80.132 (talk) 23:24, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Chipewyan people which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 09:30, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Cayuga people which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:44, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 22:19, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Beothuk people → Beothuk – target is redirect to current title, redirect created by Kwami on Feb 2 2011, citing the naming convention he'd just authored; original article created as "Beothuks" on June 15 2003 by Adam Bishop Move was contrary to WP:UNDAB Skookum1 (talk) 03:57, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
The following paragraph from this Wikipedia page is a non-sequitur:
"In 2007 DNA testing was conducted on material from the teeth of Demasduit and her husband Nonosabasut, two Beothuk individuals who had died in the 1820s. The results suggest the Beothuk were linked to the same ancestral people as the Mi'kmaq, either through mixing of the populations or through a common ancestor. It also demonstrated they were solely of First Nation indigenous ancestry, unlike some earlier studies that suggested European admixture."
All First Nations peoples had European ancestry before European colonization. Their DNA is derived from Upper Paleolithic Europeans. This was discovered in 2013 from the sequencing of a genome from a skeleton in Mal'ta, Siberia who is genetically similar to modern day European people and Native Americans:
DNA analysis shows Native Americans had European roots:
http://www.nature.com/news/americas-natives-have-european-roots-1.14213
Additionally many Scandinavians show "Native American" 'admixture', just as Native Americans had European signatures in their genes:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121130151606.htm
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/06/amerindian-like-admixture-in-northern.html
So the insinuation that Beothuk were "First Nations aboriginals" with no European admixture is a nonsensical statement. First Nations aboriginals had European heritage before they stepped foot on this continent. The source given for this erroneous statement predates the definitive evidence linked above. I am going to delete the statement and its source in one week and make sure that a new one reflects the reality of Native American origins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:6000:EF4E:4300:105A:D7C9:FF60:DBFE (talk) 18:40, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
The problem is that the DNA IS the same as modern Europeans. The Mal'ta genome is closest to modern Europeans, so much so that some populations in Europe (Scandinavians, for example) show up on DNA tests as having Native American admixture. The Upper Paleolithic people are the ancestors of both Europeans and Native Americans. They were European and Caucasoid and the same as todays Europeans. First Nations aboriginals had White European heritage before they even got to this continent. This fact apparently causes some people serious discomfort --- none of whom are Native Americans themselves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:6000:EF4E:4300:C9CC:4678:4FB0:C08A (talk) 03:45, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
Moxy: Perhaps you ought to re-read the source. Native Americans have dual origins, consisting of Upper Paleolithic European and ancient north Eurasian ancestry. Any claim that they do not have European heritage is false. Europeans today are genetically identical to the European component in Native Americans. They are part European.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2014/11/genome-of-kostenki-14-upper-paleolithic.html
The new paper shows that K14 was definitely European (or more correctly West Eurasian or Caucasoid), as it was more similar to modern Europeans than to East Asians or other non-West Eurasian populations. Thus, the morphological description of the sample as "Australoid" by some early anthropologists did not reflect its ancestral makeup. Also, this proves that Caucasoids existed 37,000 years ago, which most physical anthropologists would believe, but it is nice to have direct confirmation. This pushes the lower bound from 24,000 years ago (because MA-1 was West Eurasian according to the results of Raghavan et al.). It will be nice to push the lower bound further to the past as there are much older bones (and plenty of teeth) from earlier Upper Paleolithic Europeans.
In reviewing the history of the Beothuk page and this talk page, I have to say I find the repeated erasure of Beothuk voices and presence very alarming. Repeated edits from living Beothuk people or those who have done extensive research is deleted by editors who have done no research but instead just offer hypothetical scenarios about how it is possible for individuals to state untruths on wikipedia. This is alarming to me because those acting out of speculation are trumping those contributing from a place of knowledge (even if they don't always follow expected norms for entering material into wikipedia). Indigenous peoples across Canada and the planet are currently struggling to survive ongoing genocides. In Canada this is often described as cultural genocide because of the dominant role policies of assimilation have played in attempted erasure of Indigenous presence. This context is important to understand when editing supposedly objective records like Wikipedia to ensure that we do not reproduce the biases of past generations in these records. The continued refusal of the editors of this page to allow even an acknowledgement that there are still people proudly claiming Beothuk identity is an act of violence (although I see the most recent attempt to add these claims has not yet been deleted, and having lasted a week it is has been one of the more successful attempts). This is an erasure of people and is unwittingly complicit in the genocidal agenda that has pushed so many Indigenous peoples towards extinction, which can be a long road that happens through many tiny acts that often aren't intentionally malicious. Jghampton (talk) 05:06, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
The Beothuck people are NOT extinct. There is no evidence to support the contention otherwise. NO research has been done on the Beothuck people except a little that was done by Ingeborg Marshall. Everything else is people quoting each other. I have been working on a research project on the Beothuk for the past 10 years. I now have FIVE books in a series called, "They Called it Vinland" each 300 + pages. (none published). I realize that this sounds pompus, but I am the expert. I have publicly challenged the provincial government and academics at Memorial University and every expert on the Beothuck People in the world to meet me, all alone, in a public forum, and to bring all of their evidence to show that the Beothuk are extinct. All I have heard has been a deafening silence. They are incompetents. They are cowards. They are ignorant of history. There has been no response. Rev. Dr Ronald Ryan, St. John's, NL. . Execontrol@gmail.com. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.163.80.132 (talk) 23:36, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
I would be obliged if someone would correct the citation of Pope et al. (2011), which is evidently not formatted properly.
We showed that although the only two known Beothuk mtDNAs are in the C and X lineages, just as are some Mi'kmaq, there are definite differences between the Beothuk and Mi'kmaq sequences. Given the short fragment length (< 400 bp), the complete mtDNA would likely be quite difference and thus not evidence of close relationship at all.
The problem with the so-called "test result" is that it was likely not done at all. The comparative SNP data are not in the standard database, and the company was not aware of either the 2007 or 2011 papers until reporters told them. They have been furiously back peddling ever since. If the original "results" were produced, they would doubtless show this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr Steven M Carr (talk • contribs) 17:53, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
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And also contradicts several things this article says. Update required, I think? Ivan Semeniuk (October 13, 2017). "DNA deepens mystery of lost Beothuk people in Newfoundland". Globe and Mail.</ref> Elinruby (talk) 05:05, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
I don't disagree with the sentiment, but it has no bearing on the Description section. It does have bearing on the accuracy of the description, but that is a different matter and would objectively have to find a better place.
I understand that the topic is difficult. But following the source it's not as if there were no sources at all, just no written sources from Beothuk. Otherwise, if the source quality was really that bad, that would imply to cut the whole article after that notion: They dwelled in Neufundland -- end of story. I don't think that's in anyones interest. Rhyminreason (talk) 20:33, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
I have removed a paragraph and reference added in December 2017, referring to an alleged massacre of 400 or more Beothuk near Hant's Harbour. The paragraph is a reference to a 1951 Maclean's article written by Harold Horwood. That article is a significantly sensationalized account of an earlier oral tradition which does not appear to be supported by historical evidence. For a skeptical analysis of the Horwood article, see "Archaeology, History and the Beothuks", Ralph T. Pastore, Newfoundland Studies 9, 2 (1993); link here [SELF EDIT: corrected link]. Note also that the Heritage Newfoundland website article on the disappearance of the Beothuk never mentions this alleged incident at all. A google search turns up only references back to the original Horwood article.Vulcan's Forge (talk) 16:17, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
“Scholars disagree in their definition of genocide in relation to the Beothuk, and the parties have different political agendas.”[1]
How is this source relevant for the claim made in this sentence? The article doesn’t even mention the word “Beothuk”. It’s very misleading. Besides, I have so far only found articles who confirm this genocide and none that denies it. Are we sure this genocide is still questioned? I feel like this Wikipedia article tries to hide the genocide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.151.185.192 (talk • contribs) 12:33, July 23, 2020 (UTC) 31.151.185.192 (talk) 22:29, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
The phrase "The Beothuk are most noticeably known for being killed off for fun by European Colonists." is a literal translation of what is written in the Dutch version of this article, with the same source you rejected. The second sentence "The Beothuk were systematically hunted by European colonists with the intent to eradicate them from the island." is a paraphrase of what was written in the Vancouver Sun. You confirmed that this article was reliable enough. I’m actually quite shocked that Wikipedia accepts irrelevant articles to prove ones point. In what way do you want that sentence to be improved? You can’t claim that the genocide on Beothuks is questioned by scholars without a reliable, and in this case, relevant source. If you want to make clear that scholars don’t agree on when something is a genocide or not, you should write that separately so it’ll be clear for readers that it has nothing to do with the Beothuk in particular. You can only make that connection when you find a reliable source for that. The article/source we‘re talking about is not relevant for that. 31.151.185.192 (talk) 22:29, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
A blog is not a reliable source. The Sun piece is better, but your claims exceed what the sources support, and certainly do not belong in the lead
References
This phrasing caught my eye, "Beothuk researcher Ingeborg Marshall", as it's grammatically ambiguous whether it means Marshall is a researcher of the Beothuk people or a researcher who is Beothuk. As I read on in the article, it seems that it's more likely that the meaning is that Marshall is not Beothuk but researches the Beothuk people. Is there a better way to word this to remove the ambiguity? "Researcher of the Beothuk, Ingeborg Marshall" is an option but a bit wordier. Elfangor9 (talk) 19:22, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
At the moment, there is a section called "Genocide" that just begins "Scholars disagree in their definition of the term in relation to the Beothuk, and the parties have differing political agendas". Presumably the term in question is "genocide" but the section seem to take for granted that some genocide has been assumed by the reader. Nothing in the preceding section really suggested genocide, only that there had been some hostile encounters and starvation. Source links seem dead, but without some explanation as to why genocide is being put forward and by whom, the section doesn't really make a lot of sense. If it's not the mainstream view, I propose it be the section just be merged with the above section on extinction with more elaboration as necessary as to the exact claims. 2600:8800:23A2:9600:207F:4E1E:2600:119D (talk) 14:41, 4 January 2024 (UTC)