This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Colgan Air Flight 3407 article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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A news item involving Colgan Air Flight 3407 was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 13 February 2009. |
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on February 12, 2012, February 12, 2015, and February 12, 2019. |
Summaries of this article appear in Colgan Air, Continental Connection, and Bombardier Dash 8. |
A happened before B or B happened before A??
Article says
In its final moments, the aircraft pitched up 31 degrees, then pitched down 25 degrees, then rolled left 46 degrees and snapped back to the right at 105 degrees.
but later says
Data extracted from the FDR revealed the aircraft went through severe pitch and roll oscillations shortly after the extension of flaps and landing gear, which was followed by the activation of the "stick shaker" stall system. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.113.99.191 (talk) 08:50, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:09, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
"The autopilot was in control until it automatically disconnected when the stall-warning stick shaker activated."
This question is answered by Mentour Pilot on YouTube in 'The CRASH that Changed US Aviation', but no mention of it here. The pilots had set the Ref Speeds switch due to icing concerns. This switch is used to positively bias stall threshold speeds because ice on wings can cause stalls at a lower angle of attack. BUT they used an approach speed that would be appropriate with this switch off, and which was much closer to the reprogrammed stall threshold at that stage of the flight. The investigation found that the aircraft was not ice effected and the stall was in fact not imminent when the stick shaker triggered - though the pilot's pitch up reaction was sufficient to bring the aircraft to a true stall. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.47.51.78 (talk) 02:16, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
This feels very tedious, but to avoid the progression of an unnecessary edit war I will start a discussion on the talk page regarding the addition of the term "pilot error" in the summary of this accident. @Sjones23 has been protectively monitoring and reverting changes made to this page and feels that my specific addition needs a "new consensus." A majority aviation accidents on this site include one or more of the primary causes for the accident in its summary. These causes will usually align with the primary ones given by the aviation agency investigating the accident (NTSB, BEA, AAIB etc.) According to page 92 the NTSB official report on the accident, one of the main probable causes for the accident was "an improper pilot response to the stall warning, including failing to advance the power levers to maximum and inappropriately raising the flaps."[1] Along with this, several reliable sources such as NPR for example mentioned the fact that the pilots made errors before takeoff when inputting data in regards to the icing conditions. "the pilots of the ill-fated flight erred even before take-off from Newark International Airport, with the pilot entering data into an on-board computer that anticipated icing conditions and the co-pilot entering conflicting information."[2] I would like Sjones23 to provide their reasoning for why this umbrella term shouldn't belong in the summary parameter of the infobox please. ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ (talk) 17:36, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
Stalled during landing approach due to pilot error; crashed into houseis not helpful. As the infobox template documentation states it should be a
brief factual summary of the occurrence.Because it is in the infobox it really needs to be brief. This particular accident has a many and complex causes, and adding "pilot error" is not an accurate summary of the sum total of them. Even in the simplest of accidents in the flight safety and accident investigation worlds we usually avoid the term "pilot error" these days because it doesn't tell you much. In fact when I did my first training as a flight safety officer it was already "out of use" and that was 40 years ago. In this case there were pilot training, pilot selection, fatigue, company cultural, pay and hiring, and many other cause factors involved. These are all pretty much covered in the article text, but cannot be covered in a
brief factual summary of the occurrence.I would suggest that the infobox just read
Stalled during landing approachas even the 'hit a house' part is not needed. Keep in mind this is just a brief summary, most readers will dig into the causes in the text and not think that it covers the issue in detail, especially in a complex case like this one. - Ahunt (talk) 01:48, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
Colgan was not the last accident with multiple casualties. The linked citation (4) references the southwest accident with I believe 7 casualties, including one fatal.
Wiki on southwest flight 99.230.82.79 (talk) 04:52, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
Flight 3407 is the most recent aviation accident involving a U.S.-based airline that resulted in multiple fatalities.To be honest, the statement should probably just be removed as per WP:AVILAYOUT-WW. - Ahunt (talk) 12:35, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
The relationship between this incident and the increase in minimum hours for first officers is unclear. The increase was to 1500 hours, but the first officer in this incident had well over 1500 hours according to the article.Bill (talk) 00:39, 2 June 2024 (UTC)