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If this cant be removed then please shorten the argument, I am not finding any conclusions out of this, if you strongly think this is important then by all means keep it, but this is way too long.--RafiCHAMP1 23:04, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry sir, but I do not agree with sweeping information under the rug - palatable or not. No clearer justification for this can be shown than racism. The underpinnings of Wikipedia is the improvement of human knowledge. Racism divides us; it limits our thinking.
Besides, if it is controversial, then it is of note. If it is of note, then Wikipedia should include it, and do so proportionally to the importance to the topic (obviously it is extremely important in this case or people would not be so motivated to manipulate it). If it is verifiable information it should be included period. If it is changed 600 times, especially in the case of racial prejudice, then it should be corrected 601 times. Sooner or later somebody will come along and post that information again anyway. Throwing our hands up in disgust or cowering away from facing up to the responsibility of Wikipedia to prevent wrong or biased information from being disseminated in its name shouldn't even be given a second thought. I certainly realize the difficulty, but work important to human progress is rarely easy.
I would suggest putting a disclaimer on the page that information has been removed because it upsets some people, but it would significantly reduce my respect for Wikipedia if that were to occur.
I'll end my rant there, but this greatly troubles me. I won't change the page until I have 100% verifiable, undeniable evidence of everything I post on this page, but assuming I can obtain that proof I will change the page to reflect the facts. I hope and expect that the people most involved with editing this page will jealously guard those facts from being removed, as this is important knowledge for all of us - changing it 601 times if necessary. Webjedi (talk) 16:51, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
I've added a new reference that backs up the claims he was of Jewish heritage. I noticed in at least one of the previous references it was mentioned, but the one I've added is primarily about that subject. From what I understand, the term "mixed ancestry" was used to remove the listy feel of every nationality and religion Elvis was. There are plenty of references linked to that, however, and each read is quite detailed and informative. Perhaps, if others felt it was a good idea, you could begin a section on his diverse backgrounds? I know that I find it fascinating that Elvis had such a wide and varied ancestry, and must admit that I don't know too much about it. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 18:51, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
I don't actually think anywhere in the article that it says Presley was Jewish. There is a link to the heritage part which explains in detail as much about his Jewish heritage as his other heritage, but it doesn't actually state he is Jewish anywhere in the article itself. And this might just be a minor point to some who don't actually know the facts, but Graceland wasn't named by Presley and so his faith has absolutely nothing to do with the name Graceland. It was named after the daughter of the man who built it, S. E. Toof. Care to guess the name of his daughter? Anyone who answered Grace can have a point! Secondly, there is more than enough evidence to back up claims that Presley had Jewish heritage, and there is also enough evidence to suggest that Presley knew of his Jewish roots. To be of Jewish heritage is maternal acquisition because there is no mistaking who is the mother of a child. Because Presley's Jewish heritage ran uninterrupted down through his maternal grandmothers, according to Jewish law Presley would be considered Jewish. He may not have openly advertised the fact he knew of his Jewish roots, and he may not have taken part in any kind of Jewish tradition, but there's no denying that he had Jewish ancestry. He put a Star of David on his mothers grave when she died, so I hardly think we can say that he kept it a complete secret. Please feel free to discuss the article and suggest corrections or improvements, but if you are going to do so at least use information that is accurate in future. I don't mind how many people come here and point out mistakes or improvements, but I do mind people who come here and don't know the facts before attacking other editors for the amount of hard work they have put into an article. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 10:47, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
I didn't say it proved anything at all. From all I have read it was because of her Jewish roots that he did it. If you have an alternative source that undoubtedly proves it was for other reasons then I'd be very happy to read it. The decision was made by him in honour of his Jewish heritage, something his mother was proud of and acknowledged to Elvis at a very early age. It may very well be used by a lot of Christian Churches, but it is generally recognised as a Jewish symbol, and as Gladys was open with Elvis about their ancestry, I see no reason to doubt that it was placed there for that very reason, especially as her gravestone carries both the Star of David and a Cross. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 13:47, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
It's not in the article at all. The only part of the article that links to anything about Elvis having Jewish ancestry is in the Early Life section, where a link or two were placed for those who felt it should be mentioned. It doesn't say anywhere that Elvis was, is or thought of himself as Jewish. By all accounts, he didn't think of himself as Jewish, but he did know of his Jewish ancestry. What is wrong with that? ElvisFan1981 (talk) 13:58, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
What seems to be the problem here? This whole section starts with someone complaining about there being no mention of Presley's Jewish roots. So what is done? A link, only a link, no actual mention in the article, about his Jewish ancestry. Now we have people complaining that it mentions it at all? How do we go forward with this? If we remove the link, which is all that it is, then someone will come along and complain about it not being included. If we keep in the link, which is all that it is, then someone will come along and complain about it being included. I for one, don't have any interest either way about Elvis and his Jewish ancestry. It wasn't me that initially brought up the whole Jewish thing, and it wasn't me who put the first link. I only added one extra link for someone who thought it had been missed out. It's what it is, it's suggested in the article, and that's it. If any of you feel you can do a better job of the article then feel free. I'm interested to see how it goes and how well those people deal with free-flowing criticism of nearly everything they've written. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 19:34, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
As always when this comes up, the most straightforward solution would be the "mixed ancestry" statement followed with the references for all of the "groups" in the mix. This doesn't sweep anything under the rug. It acknowledges it, but in a way that doesn't give it importance out of proportion to the entire man, his life, and his importance. This is more or less what we have now, but someone feels the Cherokee part deserves special mention. Maybe someone would like to start an article on Elvis's Ancestry? As Rikstar points out, we've keep going over the same ground here.Steve Pastor (talk) 19:49, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, see, although many Jewish people came to the US from Europe, the ancestral home of the Jewish people isn't in Europe. So, by the same logic of "the Cherokee aren't from Europe"....you could make a case for Presley's Jewish ancestry being mentioned. I think it's best to have no exceptions to all of the mix being in references. But it's not a big deal.Steve Pastor (talk) 15:58, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
I mean no disrespect when I say this, Bushcutter, you clearly sound like an intelligent person who is interested in seeing this article reach its potential, but sadly you are coming across as an obsessive fan who thinks that Presley was a perfect man with no failings. We know that isn't true. He was an adulterer, a liar, a drug user/abuser, and he contemplated murder on at least one occasion. That's just the stuff we know about. It's not things that have been made up by any editor here, it's facts that have been cited and spoken of by the men and women who knew, worked with, loved and lived with Presley for many of his years on this planet. I don't understand your point about "the obsession with race, ancestry, and racism..." as there is no mention in the article about his race or ancestry except for one sentence at the very beginning that links to other sites for the facts. Regarding the racism, I haven't read anywhere in the article that says he was a racist. There are claims that he acted or spoke in a racist manner on occasion, but there is also a counterbalance to suggest that it was taken out of context and he wasn't a racist. You might feel it's not relevant to the article, and that's your prerogative, but as it is a direct attack on Presley, it is only fair for it to be defended against, and again it doesn't go into such great detail that it requires hacking to pieces. You constantly bring up his Christian faith, and it's common knowledge that Presley was a strong believer in God and was a charitable man in many ways, but let us not allow a man's faith to be a cloak of invisibility over the rest of his life. Presley was human. Flesh and blood like any of us, and he had his faults and sins which he couldn't escape. If we were to remove everything in the article that is negative towards this man, then it would genuinely be a "fan shrine" which is something that I personally do not want it to become. It's quite amusing, really, that nearly every regular editor of this article has been accused at some point of being an obsessed Presley fan attempting to build a shrine to his memory, and yet it's those regular editors who are the most fair, balanced and open-minded people working on it. I really cannot understand how this article can be fair and balanced if when it is a little positive we get attacked for it, and if it is a little negative we get attacked for it. As Rikstar has suggested above, if you wish to improve the article, then it would be much more resourceful for you to put your energies into that rather than complaining about the current content. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 10:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
In the article, an oft-told story is written as follows:
"On October 3, 1945, at age ten, he made his first public performance in a singing contest at the Mississippi-Alabama Fair and Dairy Show at the suggestion of his teacher Mrs. J.C. Grimes.[1] Dressed as a cowboy, the young Presley had to stand on a chair to reach the microphone and sang Red Foley's "Old Shep." He came second, winning $5 and a free ticket to all the Fair rides.[1][2]"
Jaye9 has done some digging amongst some good sources and it seems Elvis did not come second as is commonly believed and accepted. So this may have to be rewritten, or a note added. Rikstar (talk) 22:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
ElvisFan, Thank you so much for your response. I take you've read my comments on Rikstar's talk page and the points you've made are very valid and sensible. Okay here we go: what is cited in the article is from David Stanley? When I brought up the question of the myth of Elvis coming 2nd, it just got me bugged. The few sources I found seemed to show enough evidence for me to question the story, thats all. Granted, Bill Burk's books are self published. I think and alot people quite possibly don't know that out there and the video I saw only was released in 2008. There is the mention on it of Elvis wearing a cowboy outfit on stage, a friend of mind has loaned me boxes of Elvis books (I think my family's getting a little worried). However I have only seen two photo's of Elvis in a Cowboy Outfit, except for Television stint on Steve Allen Show I think by memory. The two photo's are 1.Thirteen-year-old Elvis in cowboy gear, not long before the Presley family moved to memphis (with mountain back drop and fence) prop source: Elvis Handbook by Tara McAdams 2. Photography taken of Elvis in September 1953, captures the young Presley in a moody pose with his cousin Gene Smith, both are dressed as cowboys. Source: The Official Collector's Edition Part 9.
The two photo's of Elvis at that fair show elvis in same trousers with suspenders (that hold the trousers up) and same shirt. It's just that I havn't seen a photo of him in a cowboy outfit when he was ten, not saying there isn't.
In regard to David Stanley :) I'm not saying his lying, far from it, he may be repeating something he has heard like so many others. Peter Gurlanick even says it, he is my favourite author, it has not swayed my opinion of him at all, for reasons I explained above, it just may have got missed. As I said to Rikstar, if anyone here believes there is insufficient evidence to mention this in the article or make a note, we'll just drop it. Thank you--Jaye9 (talk) 12:22, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Hey E, I shouldn't mention this but I've just come home from a party and I hardy ever drink,but I had a glass of wine with a cork in it,but I still have my facualties. I forgot to mention the Elvis On Tour out takes that Bill Burk talks about where Elvis mentions about possibly coming firth and that he wore glasses for a brief time in the fifth grade, I watched it on tuesday,I tell you this friend of mine has everything on him and it's obviously a bootleg,part of it has no sound,it's distorted in places,but Elvis does say these exact words. I must admit it was a little painfull to watch,as I like things done with quality,but I had to hear it for myself. I think Bill Burk's books are out of print now,I'm not sure and he passed away a little while back. However if you go on the internet you can order the the Elvis On Tour Out Takes and the Video Elvis-Return to Tupelo. The Elvis-Return to Tupelo is well worth watching.--Jaye9 (talk) 13:12, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Rikstar exactly,
I read an interview on Peter Gurlanick and it was interesting, because when Gurlanick was interviewing Sam Phillips he said to him, don't trust anyone, follow your gut instinct and when I watched the Elvis-Return to Tupelo alot them never get interviewed and I carn't image the National Enquirer knocking on their door any time soon. They just seemed genuine, with nothing to gain. I've met DJ Fontana and Red and Pat West,spent a little time with them. I meam it was only a few weeks, you carn't really get to know people that much it that time, but the way they conducted themselves, if Presley was a quarter as a nice as they were, he's alright in my books--Jaye9 (talk) 14:21, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes I have, Rikstar, it's a vague memory now,it was a few years ago. Very nice regular folks,as they say. Pat West likes the band AC/DC,you won't read that in a Presley book.--Jaye9 (talk) 20:00, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Hey ElvisFan, Just read elvis.com. Good Job! Gota go and make Christmas Cake and Pudding fun job,not. Will be back tommorrow.--Jaye9 (talk) 20:45, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
I tried changinging from "commonly called by his first name" to "commonoly called "Elvis" in the lead, and removing his return "with acclaim" to just his return, and the subsequent word "thereafter" as unneeded wordage. It was reverted, but I would like to know actually why "thereafter" and "with acclaim" and the change to actually citing his first name was so quickly opposed. Thanks! Collect (talk) 11:16, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Let's assume good faith, and as such I will do a self-revert. I do not own this article, and never thought I did. Rikstar (talk) 20:57, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
I didn't say he was the first, I was emphasising how rare it was. There weren't many before his time who could be recognised by their first name in the music business, and I feel that the original sentence was an appropriate way of pointing out that fact. Bing is a good example, but Madonna and Aretha came after. I don't want this article to be a shrine to Elvis, far from it. I hope that it can be a well balanced article with good and bad points about the man. So far, every editor that I have experienced working on it has been open-minded enough to use both good and bad. I'm not going to argue with anyone over the opening paragraph and I am not pushing for it to be changed, I am merely stating my own opinion that I felt the way it was suited the article better. That is the purpose of the discussion page. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 23:35, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Presley didn't write songs. Heslopian's recent edit needs reverting. Rikstar (talk) 09:50, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I realize there's only so much room for each artist here, but unlike a lot of other artists here, I find a shameful lack of any real comprehensive analysis of Elvis' work, how massively important and groundbreaking it was, and why. A lack of in-depth look into his most important songs and albums. Elvis wasn't a "songwriter" in the literal sense of the word, but he had an innate and deeply natural musical sense and musical ear. He was a master interpreter of song and a master reinventer of songs. Most of his hits were not covers, but his covers in general were usually so dramtically altered and rearranged by him, they were practically new songs. Once he left Sun Records for RCA where he hit it big, he almost immediately took complete control of most every one of his recording sessions throughout his career, because he was getting none of the help he had had with Sam Phillips at Sun. In those days, especially in pop and rock music, the artist was rarely credited with producing and arranging, but Elvis did both for the large majority of his recordings. Steve Sholes was the RCA Victor A&R man in the 50's and early 60's, and while he was often at the sessions in an official capacity and was labeled the producer, much as Felton Jarvis was later on, it has been very well documented over the decades by countless people who were in the studio with him throughout his career that Elvis was in complete charge and knew exactly what he wanted, from instrumentation, to vocals, to backing vocals, to mixing (particularly the non-movie song mixes) - the entire arranging and production process. He had it all in his head. Elvis never had a George Martin or a Quincy Jones. He did it himself. More than anything, Sholes and Jarvis were there to give him what he wanted, and regardless of what they thought, if Elvis liked or didn't like something, his was the final word. There are accounts of him going ballistic upon hearing a mix that had been changed after he had left the studio. He has never been properly credited with this entire aspect in the mainstream, and if this place is legit, it needs to be corrected here. This "he didn't write songs" crap, mostly brought up in recent years and meant in a negative way usually by people who know nothing about him, is so blatantly ignorant and missing the point with Elvis Presley so badly, it's criminal. I'm pretty sure Aretha Franklin didn't write many songs, but she's still the "Queen of Soul" for a reason. Elvis, especially someone like Elvis, needs to be properly credited in what is supposed to be a proper encyclopedia and bio. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.4.15.158 (talk) 02:35, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
This article is biased to cover up aspects of Elvis Presley's spirituality that disturb the majority of his fans, including his exploration of Mormonism and possible baptism in the Mormon church, which is well documented in articles and even movies (http://blog.ldspad.com/2007/10/26/elvis-presley-mormon-king-of-rock-and-roll/). It is not not inline with Wikipedia's policies to suppress information like this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.169.142.141 (talk) 20:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
It could just as easily be asserted that edits about Mormonism are an attempt to promote said church by including information in high profile articles from sources with vested interests. Neither argument assumes good faith, which is another wiki policy. Rikstar409 01:57, 5 January 2009 (UTC)"
->That's a foolish rebuttal. If something is factual, or debately factual, and releveant to the article, it properly belongs in the article. Material doesn't violate Wikipedia policy simply because one cross-segment of the population is interested in it, promotes it, or appreciates it, while another group is disinterested in it, and wants to suppress it. I propose the following statement be prepended to this article on the topic, which statement I think is fair, "Elvis Presley owned a Book of Mormon which he is known to have read, and which is marcated throughout in his own handwriting. The extent, or nature of, his interest in Mormonism is undetermined and debated."
Elvis was affiliated with the Mormon Church and a Book of Mormon with his handwriting expressing belief in the precepts of that church exists. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,650195503,00.html You Elvis fans may not like this fact, but that doesnt' change that it is a fact and should be in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.169.147.18 (talk) 07:19, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
There are way too many useless headlines, therefore I am removing the ones 1. Havent been updated in a long time 2. Useless
You dont like what I am doing please tell me why you think that headline should stay on my talk page.--RafiCHAMP1 23:08, 31 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rafichamp (talk • contribs) 22:52, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Due to general feelings of dissatisfaction with the Elvis Presley main article, I have edited it down, but added much needed images, to half the size here: [2].
Everyone please note: this is not what I consider a finished piece; no version of it will please everyone; it has been a sincere attempt to cut bloat and editors should refrain from adding, or re-adding, extraneous stuff; I have not included links to all sub articles; it may contain errors, and anyone is free to suggest corrections.
And please, in the spirit of wikipedia, let's make all comments/criticism helpful, encouraging and positive! Times are hard for many of us and may get worse; if tapping a few keys to improve this article is a welcome source of relief or satisfaction for any of us, please, let's all support it! Happy New year. Rikstar (talk) 01:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
I for one wholeheartedly support this and reading it recently has given me a much needed boost of renewed enthusiasm and hope of achieving a better understanding of Presley by avoiding the temptation to overhype his achievements or for that matter belittle him for his failings. Either way I believe detracts the reader from what your trying to say.
I recently discussed here on the talk page the myth surrounding his first public appearance. To the editor who corrected it to fifth place thank you,however the bit about the cowboy outfit is still there. I am only mentioning this as it doesn't exactley sit with me very well as the sources I used and the one user: Elvis Fan found with elvis.com all confer with the fifth placing,but mention nothing about the cowboy outfit,makes me wonder if it should stay in the article. Perhaps if we replaced it with "The talent show is broadcast over WELO Radio" Source: elvis.com and the other sources say this a well. Any thoughts? or am I being a little over the top here.--Jaye9 (talk) 11:44, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
By the way, last year there was a kind of consensus in favor of this relatively short version of the article's first section:
Presley's father, Vernon (April 10, 1916–June 26, 1979) was a malingerer, averse to work and responsibility. He had several low-paying jobs, including sharecropper and truck driver. His mother, Gladys Love Smith (April 25, 1912–August 14, 1958), was "voluble, lively, full of spunk,"[3] and had alcohol problems. She worked as a sewing machine operator. They met in Tupelo, Mississippi, and were married in Pontotoc County on June 17,1933.[4][5]
Presley was born in East Tupelo, the second of identical twins (his brother was stillborn). As an only child he was "unusually close to his mother."[6] The family lived in a two room house just above the poverty line.[7]b In 1938, Vernon Presley was jailed for a check forgery.[8] The absence of his father "had a profound effect upon Elvis' emotional development".[9]
At age ten, Presley won second prize in a singing contest at the Mississippi-Alabama Fair and Dairy Show for his rendition of Red Foley's "Old Shep".[10]
In 1946, Presley got his first guitar.[11] In November 1948, the family moved to Memphis, Tennessee, allegedly because Vernon had to escape the law for transporting bootleg liquor.[8][12] At school, Presley was bullied for being different, a stutterer and "a mama's boy."[13] At L. C. Humes High School, he was viewed as "a sad, shy, not especially attractive boy"; some students made fun of him for playing "trashy" hillbilly music.[14]
In 1949, the family lived at a public housing development in one of Memphis' poorer sections. Presley practiced playing guitar in a five-piece band with other tenants.[15] He occasionally worked evenings to boost the family income,[16] and began to grow his sideburns and dress in the wild, flashy clothes of Lansky Brothers on Beale Street.[17] He stood out, especially in the conservative Deep South of the 1950s, and he was mocked for it.[15] Despite any unpopularity, Presley won as a contestant in his school's 1952 "Annual Minstrel Show"[15] singing "Cold Cold Icy Fingers" and "Till I Waltz Again With You".[18]
After graduation, Presley was still rather shy and “more comfortable just sitting there with a guitar than trying to talk to you."[19] His third job was driving a truck for the Crown Electric Company. Like his fellow drivers, he began wearing his hair longer with a "ducktail".[20]
However, nothing has happened. Onefortyone (talk) 00:25, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Been there, done that, nothing happened, move on.--Jaye9 (talk) 03:32, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm questioning a couple of sources that have been used on the Main Page under the title "First recordings and performances". I'll do one at time,wait for a response and then move on to the next one if that's okay.
First being:where is says "(The DJ mispronounced Presley's apparently unusual name as "Elton Preston")[61] Source:Carr and Farren,p.6 My Response: It doesn't make sense to me,when the DJ being Dewey Phillip's could get it wrong, and with such another uncommen name such as Elton and after reading what Jerry Hopkins wrote,who makes no mention of this error, makes it more unbelievable,as Dewey already knew Sam Phillips before he even intervieved Elvis on radio,here's a except from his book about that interview and the playing of the record.(Sorry it's a bit long)
"He was a tall wavy-haired man with a soft voice,a bit of a paunch,a ready grin,and sitting in his shirtsleeved listening to his friend Sam,and then to Elvis's record,he said yes,he liked it too,and he'd sure give it a spin".
"The night Dewey played the record,Elvis tuned the family radio to WHBQ and ran to his favourite escape,the Suzore No.2 theatre. His parents said later he was so nervous,or shy,to be where he might hear his own record. Elvis probably didn't remember which film he was watching that night,because his parents walked the ailes to find him before the movie was over. Dewey had played the record,the listners had began to call in their enthusiastic reaction. Dewey played it again and again,an now he wanted to interview Elvis on the air".
Not long before he died,Dewey told what happened during that interview.
"Elvis arrived out of breath and Dewey said,"Sit down,I'm gone interview you." And according to Dewey,Elvis said, "Mr.Phillips,I don't know nothing about being interviewed."
"Just don't say nothing dirty,'Dewey said back. "He sat down and I said I'd let him know when we were ready to start,' Dewey recalled. "I had a couple of records cued up,and while they played,we talked. I asked him where he went to school and he said Humes" etc etc Source: "Elvis The Biography" by Jerry Hopkins p.47 & p.48--Jaye9 (talk) 02:28, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Looking at this next one reminds me of how difficult it all is when researching on Presley. On the Main Page Titled:"First recording and performances" were it says. "That's All Right" was aired on July 8,1954,by DJ Dewey Phillips".[61]b Source:Carr and Farren,p6
I checked the date out and got two different ones:
10 July 1954: Dewey Phillips plays That's All Right,Mama on WHBQ radio,Memphis Tennessee. Source:www.elvis.com/topic/deweyphillips
Here's what Elaine Dundy had to say: "On Monday night of 5th July,while fooling aroung during a break in the session,Sam's search for his elusive sound finally came to fruition with Elvis singing "That's All Right{Mama)."
"Just two days after,on Wednesday,Sam's old friend and ex-partner Dewey Phillips played "That's All Right{Mama}'on his popular evening WHBQ radio program. Source: "Elvis and Gladys" by Elaine Dundy p.89
I'm no Elvis expert,but I'd go with Elaine Dundy because of her endepth study on Presley alone.--Jaye9 (talk) 14:17, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
"I asked him where he went to school and he said Humes" etc etc Source: "Elvis The Biography" by Jerry Hopkins p.47 & p.48" So, did he also say that he asked this question so that people would know Elvis wasn't black? Steve Pastor (talk) 19:43, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Steve, see my response to your question above on the Usertalk:Rikstar/Sandbox re:sandbox version,hope this will help you with your question.--Jaye9 (talk) 14:14, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Welcome to: http://www.elvis-art.spb.ru/Main.html You must see this!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by ElvisSculptureART (talk • contribs) 15:59, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
Should there not be some mention of Elvis's documented racism somewhere in this article? SmokeyTheCat •TALK• 08:21, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
We already had this discussion. For relevant quotes, see, for instance Talk:Elvis Presley/archive11. Onefortyone (talk) 19:39, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4101376482992264027
I have put the postcard in this video for sale on Ebay. I think this video by Al Robinson has historic value to Elvis fans. Bobby Walker 64.149.19.105 (talk) 19:20, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
It would be real interesting to have a section that describes Elvis's interests and hobbies. We all know that Elvis loved cars and had an interest in comic books. As for sports, Elvis loved football and boxing. Elvis was, in fact, friends with Muhammad Ali. Ali gave Elvis a pair of signed boxing gloves and Elvis gave Ali a boxing robe to walk to the ring with (not sure if he ever wore it though). Here is an example of something that could go in the interest section:
Elvis was a huge football fan and it was his favorite sport. According to childhood friend Jerry Schilling, Elvis would play pickup football games every Sunday at Guthrie Park located in North Memphis, Tennessee during the mid-to-late 1950s until he got too famous to play without attracting a large crowd. Elvis is even said to have brought Natalie Wood to the games on the back of his motorcycle so she could watch. Elvis was a fan of the Cleveland Browns mainly because his favorite player was Browns' Hall of Fame running back Jim Brown. Schilling said Elvis would imitate Jim Brown's walk back to the huddle. Elvis played these pickup football games with the likes of Ricky Nelson, Pat Boone, Johnny Rivers, and Red West. Nelson some Sundays would actually recruit friends from the football teams of the Los Angeles Rams, UCLA Bruins, and USC Trojans to play on his team against Elvis. As for what position Elvis played, Schilling described Elvis as being "more of a quarterback."[21]
Here is my citation:
Schilling, Jerry. Interview. The George Klein Show. Sirius XM Radio. Elvis Radio, Memphis. 30 Jan. 2009. --Akhosrof (talk) 17:14, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Two quotes were chosen to sum up Presley's life to provide a fitting end to the article, namely:
Paul F. Campos has written: "The Elvis cult touches on so many crucial nerves of American popular culture: the ascent of a workingclass boy from the most obscure backwater to international fame and fortune; the white man with the soul of black music in his voice; the performer whose music tied together the main strands of American folk music – country, rhythm and blues, and gospel; and, perhaps most compellingly for a weight-obsessed nation, the sexiest man in America's gradual transformation into a fat, sweating parody of his former self, straining the bounds of a jewel-encrusted bodysuit on a Las Vegas stage. The images of fat Elvis and thin Elvis live together in the popular imagination."[22] The singer continues to be imitated—and parodied—outside the main music industry and Presley songs remain very popular on the karaoke circuit. People from a diversity of cultures and backgrounds work as Elvis impersonators ("the raw 1950s Elvis and the kitschy 1970s Elvis are the favorites.")[23]
In 2002, it was observed:
For those too young to have experienced Elvis Presley in his prime, today’s celebration of the 25th anniversary of his death must seem peculiar. All the talentless impersonators and appalling black velvet paintings on display can make him seem little more than a perverse and distant memory. But before Elvis was camp, he was its opposite: a genuine cultural force... Elvis’s breakthroughs are underappreciated because in this rock-and-roll age, his hard-rocking music and sultry style have triumphed so completely.
The following has now been added:
Also in the same year, rapper Eminem mentioned his name on his song Without Me from The Eminem Show album and the lyrics goes Though I'm not the first king of controversy/I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley/To do Black music so selfishly.
This may warrant a mention, but it does not end the article well, and begs the question: why this song lyric quote? Why not mention that Kirsty McColl wrote there's a guy works down the chip shop swears he's Elvis? Or that Marc Cohn saw the ghost of Elvis on Union Avenue? If Eminem's quote is just another 'reminder' (yawn) that "Elvis stole Black music", this is already covered in the article. I think it should be deleted or moved elsewhere. Rikstar409 09:18, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
I've been racking my brains as to why I think the Presley article remains B class. As I ask myself this question,is it just the length,or are there other issues going on here?
I believe the Elvis sandbox version is heading in a positive direction,as most people seem to be happy with this version as well.
Rikstar has mentioned that he has looked at the Judy Garland article,of which I have since had a look at,as well as the John Lennon article. Judy Garland being a FA article and John Lennon is a GA article.
My interest in these two article was one,to compere them with the Presley article,to see what may be wrong with the Presley article and two ,the fact that my uncle had toured with the Beatles during their Australian and New Zealand Tour back in 1964,as well as Judy Garland. I'm pointing this out,only to say that he never spoke ill of these people,both during and after his association with them. Quite frankly,he never spoke much about them at all.
Getting back to the Presley article,there is an editor who is not happy with the sandbox version,as it omits most of the criticism and the Relationships on Presley.
I for one believe in constructive criticism. Both the Lennon and Garland articles have achieved this quite well. With a better understanding of these two artists. However,I don't feel the same way with the Presley article. When I say some of the criticism are just plain BITCHY.
Next one Relationships. I do like the way the Lennon Relationships is set out,concertrating only on the women who were important to the singer,not one month flings etc as presented in the Presley article.
Joe Espositoe mentions along with other Presley associates,that Presley had many affairs and one night stands,as has been said in books written on Lennon. Do we really need to go on about it,the Lennon article doesn't.
However Espositoe and Presley associates do agree when they say,there were only a few - Anita Wood,Priscilla,Ann Margaret,Linda Thompson,Sheila Ryan and Barbara Leigh - really meant anything to him.
Perhaps,if we do have a relationship section,that we mention these people,much more appropriate for a general encyclopedia type article. Lets leave the Elvis the the nasty with Cybill Shepherd type stories,to the likes of Entertainment Tonight type shows,could we.--Jaye9 (talk) 05:46, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
With the Presleys being a notable Scientology family, i find it interesting that there is no mention of this in the article. If Elvis was a Scientologist then it should be noted, if not then it should at least be mentioned that the family joined the cult^H^H^H^H religion after his death.
Elvis wasn't a Scientologist. It's true that he was approached by them, but he didn't take any interest in their "religion" at all because he was aware that they were only after his name and money. There's a quote from one of the Memphis Mafia that says exactly that, for now I can't recall where I read it or heard it but it's out there somewhere. He wasn't a stupid man, and I believe he'd be very upset that Lisa Marie went on to choose it as her religion of choice. As said above, you can't link it to Elvis just because a member of his family chose it after his death. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 12:51, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Bushcutter, that's the quote I was thinking about. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 14:52, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
This article is very, very big, so I think splitting may be in order. Comments? - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 05:35, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Greatest rock singer ever —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.219.113.130 (talk) 15:58, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
No one can say who was the greatest, it's opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.16.111.111 (talk) 16:15, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
The article claims that Presley was part Cherokee. This is very probable because many millions of people in the U.S. declare that they are part Cherokee. As a matter of fact, the maternity ward on the Cherokee reservation was a very busy place and experienced more traffic than Times Square in New York. The other tribes across the country were not nearly as fertile. Has it ever been ascertained whether it was Cherokee men or Cherokee women who were more responsible for the population explosion in and around the reservation?Lestrade (talk) 16:58, 11 March 2009 (UTC)Lestrade
One of the contributors to this article and related talk page has been recently exposed as a sockpuppet and troll. All entries by Bu**cutter are actually from a banned editor. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 14:40, 5 April 2009 (UTC).
I have a concern about the box on the right (sorry, I don't know what it's called. Quick facts?) that says his origin is Memphis, TN. He was born in Tupelo, as the main body of the article states. I would have liked to edit it, but I cannot yet. Can someone do that? Unless I'm not understanding the meaning of the word "origin". Tres mal13 (talk) 18:00, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
There is ia wealth of well-sourced material about his parents; I have started a new article about them so the main Presley article can concentrate on his biography and not get bogged down in detail about his parents. Rikstar409 06:08, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
lol. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.231.149.33 (talk) 10:18, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Elvis Presly was the first public singer and the Limeliters to sing this song. It was first songwriten by Michael Holand Shepard in 1963 and no sooner as reported. The songwriter was almost thirteen years old. Because of the playgerism by Peter, Paul and Mary and others and the songwriter still not recieved in moneys and fame, complications exist on its official release. Interferance by Disney and Warner Brothers whom have no claim to rights and copywrights. Why not push for an official release and stop the violance. We can learn from John Lennons assination. Show the love. Michael Holand Shepard 501 W Broadway Ste A San Diego, Ca 92101 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael shepard (talk • contribs) 21:12, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Please add a space after "ducktail". -- 217.230.235.23 (talk) 15:53, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
This page violates wiki! - this is all I see on screen when I display the Elvis article. What's up with that? Please fix!!! --78.99.152.93 (talk) 22:56, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
"Elvis Presley From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This page violates wiki!"
Why is it that the above is the only writing that i see when viewing the main article? Please fix it as that is the only words that i can see... However, when i click on "View Source", i see the original article in plain text. can someone please fix that? According to the History of this page, it was edited yesterday, on the 8th of May by the username 'Highyack07' and he/she/it seems to have edited it to just "Thispage violates wiki!" This was originally noted by ClueBotw practically straight after it was vandalised. Please fix it!!! 122.104.183.172 (talk) 03:54, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
i have added a comment by Marty Lacker to add some balance, as the influence of the MM is generally negative in the article. Rikstar409 09:40, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
I have one comment about this article. I am confused by the way it moves in and out of chronological order so that it can be organized by topic. I understand that this way of organizing can be efficient and informative, but I feel like the article keeps taking two steps forward and one step back (for example, when it discusses his failing health and the Mafia's influence on him in the mid 70s immediately before the headline "1968 comeback.") 67.171.216.243 (talk) 17:45, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, it is a little out of order in places. I'm pleased to say that I tried to tidy up a lot of the 70's content into some kind of chronological order, a lot of which has been kept by Rikstar in his article which I appreciate very much. After having a look at it again, the first in some time, I must congratulate you Rikstar on how great your version is looking. Are there any future plans to replace the current one with it? I would imagine a lot of discussion amongst different editors would perhaps be necessary before such a massive upheaval was finalised, but assuming most people are happy with the reworked version then I see no reason why it should be delayed much further than the end of 2009, and if possible it may be done a lot sooner. :) Excellent work. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 19:21, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I do not think that Rikstar’s version of the article is better than the current one, as several interesting and critical topics have been omitted from the biographical article and some unimportant things added. Furthermore, only the usual Elvis fans seem to prefer Rikstar’s version. Most others seem to be happy with the version as it stands, as there were only a few minor changes since last year. However, some sections may be rewritten. For instance, the “Elvis met the Beatles” section is too long and may get a separate article. And what about this unnecessary insignia stuff included by military fans:
Rank and Insignia | Date of Rank |
---|---|
Private | Drafted 24 March 1958 |
Private First-Class | 27 November 1958 |
Specialist 4 | 1 June 1959 |
Sergeant | 20 January 1960 |
Let us, therefore, compare the first section of Rikstar’s current version with the relatively short one I wrote last year:
Rikstar’s version:
Early years: Tupelo
Elvis Presley was one of twins born to Vernon Elvis Presley (April 10, 1916–June 26, 1979) and Gladys Love Smith (April 25, 1912 – August 14, 1958). Elvis' brother, Jesse Garon, was stillborn.
The Presley family attended the Assembly of God church[6] which exposed the young Elvis to his earliest musical influences: "Since I was two years old, all I knew was gospel music. That music became such a part of my life it was as natural as dancing. A way to escape from the problems. And my way of release."[25]
On October 3, 1945, at age ten, he made his first public performance in a singing contest at the Mississippi-Alabama Fair and Dairy Show at the suggestion of his teacher, Mrs. Grimes.[26] The young Presley had to stand on a chair to reach the microphone and sang Red Foley's "Old Shep." He came fifth, winning $5 and a free ticket to all the Fair rides.[27]
In 1946, for his eleventh birthday, Presley received his first guitar.[28] Vernon's brother, Vester, gave Elvis basic guitar lessons.[26]
The young Presley frequently listened to local radio; his first musical hero was family friend Mississippi Slim, a hillbilly singer with a radio show on Tupelo’s WELO. Presley performed occasionally on Slim’s Saturday morning show, Singin’ and Pickin’ Hillbilly. "He was crazy about music... That’s all he talked about," recalls his sixth grade friend, James Ausborn, Slim’s younger brother.[29] Before he was a teenager, music was already Presley’s "consuming passion".[29] J. R. Snow, son of 1940s country superstar Hank Snow, recalls that even as a young man Presley knew all of Hank Snow’s songs, "even the most obscure".[30] Presley himself said he also loved records by Sister Rosetta Thorpe, Roy Acuff, Ernest Tubbs, Ted Daffan, Jimmie Rodgers, Jimmy Davis and Bob Wills.[31]
Onefortyone’s version (already covering material dealt with in Rikstar's second section):
Presley's father, Vernon (April 10, 1916–June 26, 1979) was a malingerer, averse to work and responsibility. He had several low-paying jobs, including sharecropper and truck driver. His mother, Gladys Love Smith (April 25, 1912–August 14, 1958), was "voluble, lively, full of spunk,"[3] and had alcohol problems. She worked as a sewing machine operator. They met in Tupelo, Mississippi, and were married in Pontotoc County on June 17,1933.[32][33]
Presley was born in East Tupelo, the second of identical twins (his brother was stillborn). As an only child he was "unusually close to his mother."[6] The family lived in a two room house just above the poverty line.[7]b In 1938, Vernon Presley was jailed for a check forgery.[8] The absence of his father "had a profound effect upon Elvis' emotional development".[34]
At age ten, Presley won fifth prize in a singing contest at the Mississippi-Alabama Fair and Dairy Show for his rendition of Red Foley's "Old Shep".[35]
In 1946, Presley got his first guitar.[36] In November 1948, the family moved to Memphis, Tennessee, allegedly because Vernon had to escape the law for transporting bootleg liquor.[8][37] At school, Presley was bullied for being different, a stutterer and "a mama's boy."[38] At L. C. Humes High School, he was viewed as "a sad, shy, not especially attractive boy"; some students made fun of him for playing "trashy" hillbilly music.[39]
In 1949, the family lived at a public housing development in one of Memphis' poorer sections. Presley practiced playing guitar in a five-piece band with other tenants.[15] He occasionally worked evenings to boost the family income,[40] and began to grow his sideburns and dress in the wild, flashy clothes of Lansky Brothers on Beale Street.[41] He stood out, especially in the conservative Deep South of the 1950s, and he was mocked for it.[15] Despite any unpopularity, Presley won as a contestant in his school's 1952 "Annual Minstrel Show"[15] singing "Cold Cold Icy Fingers" and "Till I Waltz Again With You".[18]
After graduation, Presley was still rather shy and “more comfortable just sitting there with a guitar than trying to talk to you."[42] His third job was driving a truck for the Crown Electric Company. Like his fellow drivers, he began wearing his hair longer with a "ducktail".[43]
Here is a comparison of the content of the first paragraphs:
Query: which sections are more encyclopedic in a biographical article? By the way, a strict chronological order would be tedious and would not allow laying more stress on more important points of the singer’s life and the people around him. Onefortyone (talk) 23:55, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Some very good points, Onefortyone. Personally I have never had a problem with the current article, but other editors have made very public their dislike of the length, and the size of the article. Some editors have even suggested the reason it was downgraded is because it was far too large and mentioned far too much information that wasn't necessary. Rikstar's version has attempted to keep as much of the information from the current version as possible, whilst also attempting to remove any unnecessary parts. Obviously each individual editor is going to have problems with parts either being included or removed dependant on their own personal opinions, after all you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but never all of the people all of the time. However, as a seriously cut back version I think that Rikstar's article is a good place to start again. From there information can be re-added as seen fit, or removed. This is why I said above that a lot of discussion is needed between editors before anything definite is done, and this is the place for that to happen before things can really move on. :) ElvisFan1981 (talk) 08:14, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Onefortyone,I have read the above comments and there are a couple of things that make me question whether there is any point of me remaining with this article. Firstly,my being an ELVIS FAN FOR ONE. My question to you is can you see you're way to working in with an Elvis Fan or not. Are you saying that someone who is a fan cannot possibly handle any negative comments about the star,you tell me, but that's the message I'm getting. Please allow me to say something here, I have spent two years with this article and in that time have spent many hours cross checking sources,reading what authors have said about other authors,checking their reputations and the people they interview,not an easy task I might add,but I have enjoyed doing so,because simply I want to know more about this entertainer,only reading positive things isn't going to achieve that,I was fully aware or accepting that he had his flaws fifteen years ago and in an odd way I liked him even more for it and there are certain things I don't relate with the man,but that's not for me to judge.
But the bottom line for me is to try and acheive an article that people can ralate to. I have in the past helped student from grade 4 to University students with their projects on Presley,that doesn't make me an expert,but it does make we aware of how difficult it is in writting an article of this nature,and I'm assuming that we have all different ages and we have to try and write an article that will please all types of age groups and interests in the man,not just are own.
Another thing you said 141,"Rikstar: too much information about a relatively unimportant singing contest where Elvis came fifth winning a free ticket to the fair rides / Onefortyone a shorter,more encyclopedic remark upon the same performance."
Onefortyone,when I am reading about Elvis or watching films and I check the article and it doesn't sound write,I will recheck it again and again,I thought that's what were here for,to try and get the article as accurate as possible and with the help of two other editors I thought we achieved that,as the article originally stated that he come second, he did not,if you find this correction to the article unimportant then fine,I don't as it was a myth,myths are myths,there not the truth.
My interest in Elvis are pretty varied 141,it seems your interest seem to be centred on his relationships and anything negative you can find,that's fine,all I ask is that you use a more constructive reliable sources then you have in the past and I believe still exists in this article and I would be more than happy to discuss this with you in the near future. Thank you for you time.--Jaye9 (talk) 11:54, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
I have been looking at new sources regarding his parents which could significantly change the content of early years, so a discussion of current content would be a waste of my time right now. A discussion of each further section was suggested previously. The result was (as i wrote above) "that existing editors had given up all hope of having their collective efforts reflected in an improved article" after discussion of the early years section so they moved on from this idea, worn out by the prospect of tackling further sections where others agreed even more radical editing was needed. Rikstar409 08:15, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
I agree with what Rikstar has written about more or less giving up on trying to make the article better. You can parse his statements and use the words any way you like. It doesn't change the basic fact that many of us haven't been able to take it for a long time, and left the building a long time ago. (although we do peak in once and a while) Steve Pastor (talk) 17:22, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
After reading the article I can see why it is so long. All information that is not "fact" can be deleted. For instance, in the Early Life section one comment is "The family lived just above the poverty line and attended an Assembly of God church". One, who knows what the poverty line was in the 30's & 40's and for that matter what was the Presley's income in relation to that. It is enough to say they were "poor". Also, movie, songs, and sales information can be found on Elvis' music and film discographies. Also, there are many references of things that may have happened or "Elvis' friend remembers it this way". That is conjecture and should not be entered as factual, whether good or bad. For instance, Elvis was offered the part in "Midnight Cowboy". No one knows if he was officially offered the part and if he was, he did not accept it. If we listed what Elvis could have, would have, or should have done, then Wikipedia would not be able to contain it. I have studied Elvis Presley for over twenty years both as a fan and as a critic. If you allow me, I can give a concise biography that would please fans and critics alike without the sensational gossip or tabloid fodder Elvis is subjected to. I will base my information on Peter Guralnick and Ernst Jorgensen books. Of everything I've read about Elvis, they provide the most non-partisan look at his life and career. Their books are recent and surpass the information available to Jerry Hopkins or Albert Goldman.--JCL3CLL (talk) 20:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
You miss the point I was trying to make. If you want information regarding Elvis' lineage or whether his family was on the "poverty line" then by all means purchase the book and read it. However, we are trying to condense this article so that it gets to the point. The opinions on Elvis are relevant, just not in this article. It should be based on facts, not innuendo or opinion. For instance, notice this statement in the article:
Vernon has been described as "a malingerer, always averse to work and responsibility."[20] His wife was "voluble, lively, full of spunk" and had a fondness for drink.[21]
Is this fact? Perhaps. Can we verify this? NO. Therefore, it should not be on this page!--12.234.250.75 (talk) 18:21, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Rank and Insignia | Date of Rank |
---|---|
Private | Drafted 24 March 1958 |
Private First-Class | 27 November 1958 |
Specialist 4 | 1 June 1959 |
Sergeant | 20 January 1960 |
.
"I think that documentation can so often change your picture of the way things are. For example,with Elvis's father, Vernon, who is often pictured in the past as a kind fo lazy ne'er-do-well, claimed he had a back problem. When I got into the archives here at Graceland,I discovered documentation which showed that he always worked,he always paid his bills. He was the most conscientious of people. This may not make him a hero, but it is very, very different picture than the picture that people were painting of him." Source: August 16,2002 interview with Peter Gurlanick talking with CNN anchor Martin Savidge from Graceland about his books, "Careless Love: The Unmaking of Elvis Presley" and "Last Train to Memphis".--Jaye9 (talk) 05:31, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Words fail me right now, if only to say one thing though, this has gone beyond any sort of common sense.--Jaye9 (talk) 04:51, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
When I got into the archives here at Graceland,I discovered documentation which showed that he always worked,he always paid his bills. Well, for instance, I seem to remember that he built the house that they lost when he was jailed. I have always agreed with those who argued that the gossip 2nd and 3rd hand stuff has no place in this article. Just like so and so, Elvis Expert's Opinion of what happened has no place when an objective account is available. Steve Pastor (talk) 17:18, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
A few well-intentioned edits have succeeded only in duplicating content recently eg. intro mentioning billion sales and A Star is Born is referred to in two different sections. (the first mention is the recent edit). I find it sad that no one has pointed this out or sorted it out, or flagged it up for discussion. I find it strange, given that this article is watched so closely and admired by some editors. Rikstar409 02:21, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
I've just reverted some good faith edits that said Elvis was a songwriter and instrumentalist. Discussion before has come to the conclusion that he can't really be classed as a songwriter, primarily because most of his credits were for publishing reasons only. Also because I can't think of one person who would actually mention the word "songwriter" when talking about him, I don't see how it is appropriate to the article. As I've said before, I know of only one song that he genuinely co-wrote, and I don't believe that is enough to qualify its inclusion. Elvis was a very talented arranger, and producer, but very rarely would he ever tamper with lyrics. Even when he did it was to change a word or remove a verse, never to rewrite a whole section.
I've also removed the term instrumentalist, simply because I personally don't class him as that either. Yes, he played guitar, piano and learnt to play a little bass, but generally, with the exception of the 1950's and a few recordings and live performances after that period, he didn't play enough on his own to fall into that category. I notice that on the John Lennon and Paul McCartney pages, neither of them are described as instrumentalists either, yet I would consider them so before I would Elvis.
If anyone feels that these edits are wrong and should be included, then I would appreciate if discussions included here before any changes were made again. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 12:40, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi Cosmic, thanks for your reply. The reasons that Elvis received song-writing credits was simply down to the fact that Col. Parker had seen it as a great way for Elvis (and in return himself) make some extra money without having to lift a finger. It was for financial reasons, and sadly Parker's greed led to Elvis not being able to record some great songs that he was either offered outright, or had shown an interest in. I don't know for sure, but I would imagine that the reasons Elvis' name appears on earlier recordings and not later ones is because they soon realised that his name didn't actually need to be on the recording for him to make money unless he did have some input. I'll re-read the article and see if it can be made any clearer for readers. Many thanks. :) ElvisFan1981 (talk) 13:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Hello there. I much appreciate editing efforts regarding this 'songwriting' issue. I have taken the Parker publishing deal edit in the main article and edited it as follows (for the sandbox version):
"To boost earnings for himself and Presley, Parker cut a deal with Hill and Range Publishing Company to create two separate entities—"Elvis Presley Music, Inc" and "Gladys Music"—to handle all of Presley's songs and accrued royalties. The owners of Hill & Range, the Aberbachs, agreed to split the publishing and royalties rights of each song equally with Presley. Hill & Range, Presley or Colonel Parker's partners then had to convince unsecured songwriters that it was worthwhile for them to give up one third of their due royalties in exchange for Presley recording their compositions. One result of these dealings was the appearance of Presley's name as co-writer of some songs he recorded, even though Presley never had any hand in the songwriting process.[58]"
The main difference is that there is reference at the end as to why Presley was credited as a songwriter, when he wasn't one really. Rikstar409 19:58, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
That's a good idea. Sadly, at the moment, I'm struggling to deal with general references while adding some information about the March 1973 deal with RCA, never mind dealing with notes lol. It's been so long since I really spent a good amount of time editing anything on wiki that I seem to have forgotten the minor things I learnt before. If someone else could deal with the above for the moment, I will try to focus my attentions on learning to edit again. I feel so stupid! ElvisFan1981 (talk) 22:40, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I found a few grammar errors on the Elvis page, but I didn't know if I can offer changes with the locked down page, as I am new to Wikipedia. I am not involved in the whole Elvis-Jewish thing; my questions merely regard the grammatical accuracy and if I can edit those. Thanks Msterrell (talk) 01:48, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Since Michael Jackson's death, MJ fans have tried to improve his reputation by destroying Elvis's. On many, many websites, it has been claimed that Elvis was a racist, a rapist, and a pedophile. He's also accused of stealing black music. It appears to me that these people are getting all their information from this site. All this negative information should be removed; it's not needed. Also, the entire "sex" section is unnecessary. It doesn't belong in this article. If someone is interested, he can go buy the book.
In your effort to be neutral, you have overdone the negative and scrimped on the positive. Elvis was dynamite; he was magical; he was breathtaking, but I would never know that from reading your ho-hum article. Put some life in it. Try to give people who weren't there a feeling of what he was really like and what an effect he had on the world. He changed everything. Remember that when his first hit song came out (Hound Dog?), the number one song in the US was Doris Day's "How much is that Doggy in the Window?" And music was never the same again.
beth4664Beth4664 (talk) 05:09, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
When in his life did Elvis become a pedophile???Mfbinc 00:55, 22 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mfbinc (talk • contribs)
Well, no one who has followed this article will be surprised that I pretty much agree with Rikstar on this one. I just don't have the wherewithall to keep addressing the same type of BS that keeps being brought up again and again. This same put anything anyone has written that is negative sytle of editing, often in spite of documentation that it is just plain wrong, is too pervasive in articles about popular figures. Thumbs up, Rikstar, for continuing the good fight. Steve Pastor (talk)
Is there any way to ban an editor? I think 141 should be voted off the island. His interest in Elvis is one-dimensional, prurient, and vulgar. Goldman's book was full of lies. Everyone said so when the book was published. He could say anything he wanted. It's not illegal to slander a dead man.
Elvis dated mature women. Cybill Shepherd is still using her relationship with Elvis to keep her name in the news. He dated all his co-stars. His friends were grown men too--the members of his band. He loved his daughter, but I doubt he liked kids. He certainly didn't hang out with 10-year-olds.Beth4664 (talk) 19:07, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
If you, Beth, or anyone, makes good edits (including deletion) of things that have been published, but nevertheless may or may not be "reliable sources", factually correct, or are things that most of us think don't belong in an encyclopedic article, there are those of us who will back your edits. Using the ArbCom, etc, is a time consuming, frustrating process that infrequently is worth the time and effort. I know. I tried. I've seen some (very) gradual improvement over time in various articles, however, and the process of editing will work, eventually.Steve Pastor (talk) 22:27, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to know why anything "Onefortyone" writes is not deleted immediately, and any and all of his requests ignored. It is obvious this person is simply looking to have as many negative things about Elvis here as possible, and mostly lies and BS, like Goldman's book et. This person presents himself as if he's interested in the facts while it's clear he's only interested in defaming Elvis. Alone, just his using Goldman's book for info, as if it's anything but garbage that hasn't been debunked decades ago, is enough to prove this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.3.249.123 (talk) 07:15, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
First you claim that Elvis was a pedophile, and now you say he slept with his mother! And the whole town knew about it. That's insane. Just when did all this "incest" take place? And how on earth could anyone have known about it? Did Gladys discuss it at the beauty shop? Did Elvis talk about it with his friends at school? No!! He was close to his mother--period. My son is close to me. A lot of sons are close to their mothers. Only someone with a dirty mind would construe that in the worst possible way. This is absolute trash.Beth4664 (talk) 00:13, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Onefortyone, you are a hack. You consistently quote garbage from any trash-filled tabloid book you can think of, again and again for God knows how long. Goldman's book is loaded with lewd and trashy unproven BS about Elvis, just as his book about John Lennon was. As many critics said at the time they came out, it was blatantly obvious very early in the books that Goldman had nothing but disdain to start with for the subjects he wrote about in those books. Now it's Dee Stanley, who didn't even KNOW Elvis Presley until AFTER his mother was dead, and who Elvis could not stand. But her account of him and his relationship with his mother is also the gospel in your world. There is NOTHING, ZERO evidence of ANY kind that points to Elvis being a ped, or gay, or incest with his mother, or "racist" or any of the rest of the sick BS your ilk spew. You need to be banned from this site. If I had that power, you would be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.7.235.38 (talk) 02:59, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
This is an encyclopedia, Onefortyone, not a tabloid page. A person does not have to be an "Elvis fan" to want documented, proven "facts" only in his or anybody's article, rather than unproven slanderous BS by people with agendas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.4.9.15 (talk) 05:17, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
ElvisFan1981 has written: "The claim that Presley was more interested in young girls than older, more mature women, just doesn't seem to fit in with the facts that I know about. It is well documented about his relationships with his co-stars, none of whom were under 18, and his relationship with Ann-Margret is so famous that it just baffles me that anyone could suggest he was scared of older, mature women."
It is a fact that most of Elvis's so-called relationships were nothing more than bogus dates for publicity reasons. As for the alleged relationship with Ann-Margret, it is well known that there was a great publicity campaign about the romance between Elvis and Ann-Margret during the 1963 filming of Viva Las Vegas and the following weeks, which helped to increase the popularity of the young Hollywood beauty. In his critical study on the "dream machine" that publicists, tabloid newspapers, journalists, and TV interviewers use to create semi-fictional icons, often playing with inauthenticity, Joshua Gamson cites a press agent "saying that his client, Ann-Margret, could initially have been "sold ... as anything"; "She was a new product. We felt there was a need in The Industry for a female Elvis Presley." See Joshua Gamson, Claims to Fame: Celebrity in Contemporary America (University of California Press, 1994), p.46. Therefore, they created a female Elvis named Ann-Margret. See also C. Lee Harrington and Denise D. Bielby, Popular Culture: Production and Consumption (2000), p.273. In her own memoir, Ann-Margret only refers to Presley as her "soulmate", but very little is revealed about their long-rumored romance. She does not even mention that she had a sexual relationship with Elvis, she only relates that "in a moment of tenderness" he bought her a round bed in hot pink colors. So you can be quite certain that they dated primarily for publicity reasons.
Here are some further sources. Stating without prejudice that Elvis "was not the super-suave stud everyone thought he was," Joe Esposito reports "voyeuristic tendencies" and a "full-blown Madonna complex", which certainly supports what Goldman has written.
Guralnick relates how the Memphis Mafia handled the teenage girls who were as keen as mustard on meeting the star: Elvis "was enjoying the single life, and when he got bored he just had to tell the guys to hunt up some girls in the lobby of the hotel. ... when they came back with the girls, the girls would sit there for maybe ten or fifteen minutes, and finally one of the cousins would go in the bedroom and come out himself and another ten minutes would go by - and then in would come Elvis. And there would be like a silence, and then the cousins would say, 'Oh, Mary Jane, this is Elvis,' and the girls would be totally gone." That's all. Interestingly, even some of these girls emphasized that Elvis "had an innocence at the time."
According to another account, Elvis kept on hand brand-new sets of pyjamas, white cotton panties, and toothbrushes for the girls. The girls were brought to his room, he had them shower, wash their hair and remove all their makeup, and wear the cotton panties and pyjamas. Most of them report only snuggling and watching movies with him during these evenings. Therefore, it is no wonder that Goldman found a "decline into infantilism" and a "bizarrely infantile behavior" in Elvis.
One thing seems to be clear: what Elvis really wanted was, according to Guralnick, "to have company." But there was that womanizer image he had wrongly established and had to defend in public. This may be the real reason why he often had girls in is bedroom. But in most cases he watched TV or read books with the girls the whole night. He did this also with mature women. Dorothy "Dottie" Harmony, a Las Vegas dancer who dated Presley, recalled dates in which religion was the topic of discussion. "I'm not kidding. We read the Bible aloud together."
Sheila Ryan, one of the few women who claimed to have had "a very active passionate romantic life" with the singer but finally married James Caan, also mentions Elvis's infantilism: "he was very much a little boy. He had that little boy quality. I've often said, before I met him, he had that smile and everyone interpreted that smile to be his sexy look. And it wasn't that at all. It wasn't a sexy look. It was his innocence, his vulnerability. It wasn't at all something that he turned on and off. It was just, you know, just vulnerable. ... The man was just not normal." She adds: "I'd heard that he didn't have a lot of intimacy with women. That mostly he did, a lot of talking and staying up and reading." Indeed, the latter seems to have been the usual thing when Elvis had girls in his bedroom.
Actress June Wilkinson says, "I met Elvis on the set of King Creole. He invited me to dinner at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel. He had an entourage who spoke with Southern accents. The only one I remember was Nick Adams, the actor. Then Elvis gave me a tour of his suite, sat me on the bed in his bedroom and sang to me for two hours. That was it. The next day he called me again, but I was leaving at midnight. So he said, 'bring your bags along,' and we had dinner again. He was very sweet, and he was friendly. He had more than sex on his mind. He got me to the airport on time, and our paths never crossed again."
According to Guralnick, he wasn't really interested in most of these women. This is also confirmed by Jerry Hopkins who writes about Elvis's tour to Hawaii: "Velma Fisher remembers a young woman on the ship who said she had to meet Elvis. Velma took her to his cabin and knocked. The door opened. Elvis pulled the girl inside. The door closed. (Velma later said that when the ship arrived in Hawaii the young woman came up to her in tears. Elvis had rejected her.)"
As for the assumption that Elvis was not only a pedophile but also a voyeur, Greenwood has stated that "with teenage girls", Elvis felt "more secure he wouldn't be pleasuring himself with a mother," and that home movies were made with some of the girls because Elvis liked "to watch the girls have sex with each other. The faces changed and each group got younger, until on the final evening there were four fourteen-year-olds ... The movies were Elvis's latest pride and joy. He and his boys watched parts of them every day..." This means that the star didn't make love to them, being more interested in peeping at young pubescent girls.
There was another problem hindering the star from having full sex with the girls: Elvis's "drug protocol." According to Alanna Nash, it "was so intense and stultifying that often he would get up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom and never make it back to bed..." He would wind up in the bathroom, "sprawled on the floor, zonked out and cruising his own private hemisphere." Onefortyone (talk) 01:22, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
The truth is that "when you look a little deeper and actually think about what is being said with the knowledge of your own findings on the subject" (your words) you have to agree with Goldman and the other sources I have cited. There are indeed many photographs that were taken for publicity reasons. Some examples:
These are just a few examples I found only on one website. There are many more publicity photos of this kind. You may visit the fan sites.
Interestingly, there are also several photos showing Elvis’s predilection for very young girls, for example
These girls were much younger than 18 when Elvis dated them. This certainly supports Goldman’s opinion that the girls Elvis liked were "as young as possible, certainly no older than eighteen" – or you might say: much younger than eighteen, or fourteen such as Priscilla, or even younger than fourteen as the girl Scotty Moore mentioned in his book.
By the way, reviews of Goldman’s book weren’t on the most part horrendous. Only fan magazines damned it and some few critics criticized the author's focus on viciousness, sexuality, etc. Others liked the book. According to Rolling Stone magazine, October 21, 1981, Elvis "is a poignant book, the result of Goldman's winning the trust and confidence of hundreds of sources, including many of Elvis' closest friends. It is also an intimate look at a side of Elvis that few even suspected existed. Many people will find some of the revelations unpleasant... Yet, such revelations comprise a truth about modern American heroism and success." Jonathan Yardley of the Washington Post called it a "nasty book, written in spectacularly execrable prose, but the view of Presley that it expressed dovetailed in many instances with my own, and in spite of itself I found things in it to admire." Even Greil Marcus, one of Goldman’s critics, says that Goldman has significantly shown that "Elvis Presley built his own world...--where the promise was that every fear, pain, doubt, and wish could be washed away with money, sex, drugs, and the bought approval of yes-men..." And Marcus must also admit that the book, "as no book on Elvis Presley before it, ... has been taken seriously. Despite some partially negative or carping notices, the reviewing media have accepted the book as it presents itself--as the last book we will need about Elvis Presley. Onefortyone (talk) 04:30, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
ElvisFan1981 has written: "Priscilla has always insisted that she and Presley did not engage in a serious sexual relationship until their wedding night. Now, whether she is saying this to protect his image or not is something that we will never know, but until further serious evidence comes forward to suggest otherwise, then we must really take it at face value."
As for Priscilla, it is not clear whether they had already a sexual relationship when she was very young. According to Larry Geller and Joel Spector, "probably the most scandalous rumor circulating then was that Elvis kept a young girl [Priscilla] back at Graceland. ... As Vernon and Elvis promised Mr. and Mrs. Beaulieu, she did complete her schooling and, as far as the public knew, lived with Vernon, Dee and Dee's three little boys, Rick, David and Billy Stanley..." (But who knows what was really going on there.) Joe Esposito says that it "was not until 1963, when Priscilla turned seventeen, that her father allowed her to live in Memphis. ... At first, she did stay at Vernon's to keep her promise to her parents. But Priscilla spent most of her time with Elvis, and before you knew it, she was permanently installed at Graceland." However, according to other sources, Priscilla "was permanently installed at Graceland" two or three years earlier. She first visited Graceland on Christmas 1960. "During the weeks of Priscilla's holiday visit", Kathleen Tracy writes,
Alanna Nash states that though the promise was that a chaperoned Priscilla would live with Vernon and his new wife, Dee, that arrangement lasted only a matter of weeks, "Priscilla slipping back and forth between the houses." In her book, Elvis and me, Priscilla writes about Elvis: "Any sexual temptations were against everything he was striving for, and he did not wish to betray me, the girl waiting for him at home who was preparing to be his wife." However, reputed biographer Suzanne Finstad calls the content of Elvis and me a web of lies that Priscilla has spun. The author paints Priscilla in a rather negative light describing her as a "wild child" and "sexpot" and stating that Priscilla wasn't a virgin on her wedding night, as she and Elvis slept together on their second date. If this is really true, then Elvis would have had sex with a 14-year-old girl during his military service in Germany, which would indeed support Goldman's view that Elvis may have had pedophilic tendencies. This would further imply that the singer had rendered himself liable to prosecution in 1959, as he would have acted against the German (and US) law at that time, because Elvis was 24 and Priscilla hadn't reached the so-called age of consent (i.e. the minimum age at which a person is considered to be legally competent of having sex with an adult person). However, Finstad also emphasizes that Elvis hated sex. This means that the singer was not overtly sexual towards his wife some years later - a fact even Priscilla confirms in her book. Further sources say that Elvis never made love to Priscilla again after the birth of his daughter, because he would never have sex with a woman who had had a baby. Onefortyone (talk) 01:33, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
It should be taken into account that Suzanne Finstad is an excellent biographer and known for her over-attention to detail. When she says that Priscilla didn’t tell the truth when she claimed to have been a virgin until her wedding day, then Finstad’s statement must be taken serious as it is based on extensive interviews with family members, close friends, classmates, etc. It is also understandable that Priscilla is not willing to compromise herself in public, if she really had sex with Elvis as a fourteen-year-old girl. Onefortyone (talk) 04:39, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
The following paragraph has recently been rewritten by ElvisFan1981:
Query: do we need all these details? Here is the "List of the Ten Outstanding Young Americans" for 1970:
What is so important about this list that it is mentioned in the intro paragraph? Furthermore, we read that Elvis is the best-selling solo artist ever who sold over one billion records. The following sources indicate that this is merely an assumption:
So the intro should better say, " It is assumed by many (or It has been claimed by some industry estimates) that Elvis is the best-selling solo artist artist in the history of music, selling over one billion records internationally..." Onefortyone (talk) 01:20, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Would anyone be interested in getting a new picture for the intro? That hairstyle looks dated now, even though it was fine at the time. I always liked the black leather jacket shot from the come-back special--timeless. He was in the best shape of his life too-lean, mean, cool, sexy. That's the way I would like him to be remembered.Beth4664 (talk) 23:47, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
"Fans are more interested in finding the nicest "young Elvis" - "mid 50s" photo depicting Elvis "in the best shape of his life... - lean, mean, cool, sexy."
I wish this constant generalisation would stop. "Fans"? All "Fans"? I don't think so. This fan certainly doesn't think that Elvis looked his best in the 50's, and I'm not one bit put off by the way he looked on his very last tour. He was a human being, a man who was very capable of putting on weight and losing weight like any of us. A man who found it more difficult to lose weight as he aged, like any of us would. To just blatantly assume that "Fans" like something is seriously wrong. Sweeping generalisations are very uncalled for, especially when you don't know anything about every "Fan". I would be more than happy for a picture in the Last Years section to be from his very last tour, one of him looking overweight and pale. It's realism, it's life, it makes him even more human and not a God. I don't have an interest in a God, I have an interest in the man, the human being, the real deal. It's partly because some people assume that all Elvis "Fans" want to see him looking his best that EPE won't officially release his final concerts on DVD, something which any real fan would love to own. I do own a copy, bought from eBay, and whilst it's watchable and very enjoyable, I would love to get my hands on a proper, re-mastered official version. Perhaps the constant mocking Elvis got/gets for his look in the final years is what led to the ridiculous stick thin celebrities we have today, and the airbrushing that leads to millions of young boys and girls starving themselves to look like an image that isn't even real. Despite Elvis' growing waistline in the 70's, his shows still sold out everywhere he went, fans still screamed as loud as they had done in the 50's, and his records still sold millions of copies around the world. I'm sure that every "Fan" who was at those concerts didn't care how Elvis looked, it wasn't/isn't important. New fans of all ages find Elvis appealing, and even in the 70's he gained fans that weren't even born when he was making his movies in the 60's. Today there are still many younger fans who listen, watch and try to imitate Elvis. His mass appeal was never his looks. Elvis' looks were like that of a new relationship; initially you are attracted to the person based on their looks, but if there's nothing deeper going on underneath then it won't last. Perhaps that explains why Elvis is still a huge name today and other stars from the last 50 years have all faded; Elvis went deeper than just his looks. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 09:01, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
I can appreciate what Steve Paster is saying,he is not having a go at Elvis's build,I think he is saying his fondest memories of Elvis and what he relates to,and that is to do with the 50's Elvis. My brother and some other people are of the same opinon, it's to do with his music,nothing more. It's just a personal taste with his music and the whole thing with the 50's.dancing,cars,cloths,hairstyle etc. It's called youth.
I on the other hand I'm am different, my first record I bought of Elvis,was from a second hand record store and it was an album of his early recordings, Elvis Presley (The black and white cover with the pink & green writing and the second album I got was the Moody Blue Album.) I enjoy different songs from different era's.
I and many others like yourself ElvisFan1981 have the bootleg copy of the Last Concert and only wished that EPE would bring out the original version. They may in time. Look what happened, they now have the Elvis Tribute Yearly Contest with Elvis Tribute artists, I didn't think that would ever happen. Never say never.
I think with the last concert people feel very sad for Elvis,even my parents who are not Elvis Fans carn't get over how he looked in th 68's Comback Special and in just nine years later, he looked so sick,it's called compassion,it's got nothing to do with his weight. If anything,that is one thing that alot of people can relate to,be they fan or non fan,we don't stay beautiful for ever. Unlike 141's little remark,that's to demean someone,there's the difference.--Jaye9 (talk) 10:42, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
It would be kind of "fun" to rotate a number of pictures that are representative of Elvis' life. Maybe we could agree to do that. The "Fat Elvis" picture represents only a very short period of his life, and, as the "head" picture would be inappropriate because it is so atypical. (There is a guy who calls himself "Big Elvis" who's been performing in Vegas for 7 years.) It IS, however, appropriate for the Final Year and Death section. No? Steve Pastor (talk) 19:44, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
EIN: The infamous Albert Goldman biography on Elvis. We know you've talked about your involvement in his book before but as you say even today you still are blamed for it. For those fans who don't know the full story could you set the story straight?
LF: I'll tell you something. He wanted to do the book and my involement was set up through an individual in New York. Albert was a hard writer and I had nothing to do with how he used that information I provided to him. The way he wrote it was terrible but I had no editoral control over the book. When I read the gallery proof I took them out the back yard and buried them! Source: Part of the Lamar Fike interview 2008 with Elvis Information Network
I could have put so much more in then I did, but I choose not to, what is the point when dealing with you 141. If you have read "Elvis and the Memphis Mafia" and what they have said, not just on Albert Goldman, but on other subjects & sources that you have brought up both past and present,which they speak of, both with honesty and integrity. Then shame on you. As far as I'm concerned,your an experts AH--Jaye9 (talk) 11:39, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Firstly 141,please accept my oppology for calling you an Experts AH,that was uncalled for. But I just don't understand how someone like yourself,who reads as many Elvis books,as you say you do,can take Greenwood seriously and in the other instance pass of Bill Burk as just an Elvis Fan,that did talks on Elvis for European Fan Clubs. Well,his done alot more than just that. He has exposed alot myths and hacks with their exaggerated claims in regard to Elvis Presley. Is Greenwood telling lies or is Bill Burk & Marty Lacker. I'll put my money on Burk and Lacker, I want the truth thanks.
You recently wrote on the Elvis Talk page this: "As for the assuption that Elvis was not only a pedophile but also a voyer,Greenwood has stated that "with teenage girls",Elvis felt more secure he wouldn't be pleasing himself with a mother," and that home movies were made with some of the girls because Elvis liked "to watch the girls have sex with each other. The faces changed and each group got younger,until on the final evening there were four fourteen-year-olds...The movies were Elvis's latest pride and joy. He and his boys watched part of them every day..." This means that the star didn't make love to them,being more interested in peeping at young pubescent girls."
May I suggest 141,that you read "Elvis and The Memphis Mafia" book. A very different version to Greenwood's. Yes,Elvis did recieve one of the first Recorders as a gift from RCA in 1968. The boys recalled this in their book,as they had to lugg it up Hotel Stars for Elvis. When they asked Elvis want are you doing with it,he said he was recording football games. He lied. Elvis the say took great paines to hide these Vidoes from them and when he was away,they snuck up into his bedroom looking for these tapes,which they found and they were dissappointed because Elvis had taken the cord with him. Joe Esposito,with alot trouble found another cord and they viewed these tapes. To today standards they would rate them a R at best,no mention of 14 year old girls. Perhalps Greenwood read their book and put his own take on it. You see Elvis didn't sit around watching these films with the boys,as Greenwood states,he was very private about it. Greenwoods version is much more titillating.
Bill Burk writes about Greenwood: "He writes of Elvis being in an English class with Dixie Locke at Humes High School and how they became sweethearts and often doubledated with "Cousin" Earl and his girlfriend. Earl writes he attended Tech High School."
"On reading this,I called Dixie and said "You liar! You've been telling me all these years you went to school with my first wife at South Side High School and now I learn you went to Humes! "Who Says?" quizzed Dixie. "You know I went to school with Frances(My first wife)" "Earl Greenwood! "WHO is Earl Greenwood?" You would think someone who doubled dated with "Cousin" Earl as much as he claimed would remember him" Soure EIN (by the way Burk trips Greenwood up on alot of other things as well)
Marty Lacker writes about Greenwood: "And as for Earl Greenwood,first of all,he claims to be a second cousin. Billy says he isn't. And I've seen the entire family tree and there is no Earl Greenwood on it. He was a guy who hung around the gates. Every once in a while,he was allowed up to the home with all these other people who came up and maybe he had his picture taken with Elvis at the skating rink. So what? Source: "Elvis and The Memphis Mafia"--Jaye9 (talk) 01:58, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Sorry folks I jumped the gun there a little bit when I said Greenwood may of got his information from the "Elvis and The Memphis Mafia" book more likely Albert Goldman's book,as Greenwood's book came out in 1990 after Goldman's and before "Revelations By The Memphis Mafia" book. By the way Albert Goldman claimed that there were rumours circulating around,that these Vidoes of Elvis were around certain Hollywood Porno shops whatever,yeah likely story.--Jaye9 (talk) 02:31, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
141,I went to the website you referred to,had a look at it. These individuals who have done this website are scary (fruit loops). Don't insult me.--Jaye9 (talk) 05:17, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
I remember seeing this white supremist on TV once,who was taking passages out the bible to justify his own twisted beliefs and it made me sick. I'm getting that same sick feeling here.--Jaye9 (talk) 07:14, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
True. So true. It is tiresome and repetitive and perhaps we should all just agree to let it go now, it's getting us nowhere and definitely isn't improving the article, or moving it forward, in any way. I have only really been involved with this article for the last 12-18 months (I can't really recall offhand) so I don't remember all the discussion before, but if all of this is just a rehash of all of that then it is unnecessary. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 10:56, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Why is Onefortyone, who seems to be the source of most of the BS and tabloid rag quality entries here, not banned from this article permanently? He has no interest in facts, only every unproven tabloid accusation he can find, by any hack he can find, whether they ever even met Presley or not. Or he takes something that is true and twists it into something perverted that wasn't there to begin with. His agenda is disgustingly obvious, and he should have been banned a long time ago. I don't get it. Why is he not???? Why is he tolerated or taken seriously for two minutes here instead of just banned and done with it??????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.4.9.15 (talk) 05:37, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I've been with this article for quite awhile now,when I think about it. I e-mailed Marty Lacker last night to ask him if I could get his insight on different things from time to time and I told him about Wikipedia and I said how I believed that most of the editors were really genuine. He has never gone into Wikipedia until now,of course he doesn't need to. But he had a look. His reply made me think about alot things and my involement with this article.
If it's not difficult enough to cross check souces and I beleive I have done this to the best of my ability,I've got 141 thrown into the mix. I should be just focussing on what I'm supposed to do and that is finding the best sources possible for this article,but instead I'm thinking about how he is going to twist it around. I'm spending far to much time thinking what his going to do and his responses with lots of different souces all thrown in with his own spin on it,most of which inderectly has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I don't know if you do this because you think it's clever,or to daze and confuse me. His refusal to accept any souces you bring up,if it doesn't suit him. Lets not forget his arrogant manner,let's see:your just an Elvis Fan,this speaks volumes,you may put it in,this is unexceptable,your wrong,or your sources are just Elvis Fans to. Who do you think you are? In the end it doesn't matter what you think or say 141,people will figure it out by themselves. The way I see it,while you continue to stay with this article,I believe it will never reach a GA rating,period and in the end,I see you as just this sad twisted lonely man.
For these reasons,I will not be returning to this article,I just don't see the point.
To the rest of you,let me say it has been a pleasure working with you.--Jaye9 (talk) 01:06, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
there is no actual calculated number close to one billion+ to say that elvis presley is the best selling solo artist in history. its very possible that michael jackson, cliff richard, madonna, alla pugacheva, mouskouri, ar rahman, wei wei, etc., etc., etc. could have been better sellers than elvis. it would be better to say he's one of the best selling solo artists or acts in music history. one is assuming too much by saying he is the biggest seller. the likely reality also is that figures of 2 bln, 1.5 bln, 1 bln, 750 mln, 500 mln, etc. are tremendously exaggerated for promotional purposes. for the reason that the number might be exaggerated but that he is still obviously a popular artist, one of the best sellers makes more sense. Vpuliva (talk) 01:29, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
The Beatles page on Wikipedia is quite open about announcing that they have sold over 1 billion records, and so I don't see why the Elvis Presley page shouldn't be. Cliff Richard? Nowhere near sales of Elvis. Madonna? Never. Any of the others, I very much doubt. Michael Jackson is the only serious contender who could rival Elvis and The Beatles for selling power, and even the experts are saying that he's most likely to have sold around 500 million, not the 750 million that has recently been claimed. I read a few days ago that since his death (approx. 4 weeks ago) he's sold 9 million records worldwide. That is a massive achievement, but not when you consider that Elvis Presley sold in excess of 20 million following his death, according to very similar reports at the time. I think if it's good enough for the Beatles page (they cite Wikipedia, by the way) then it's good enough for this page. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 08:49, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
i didnt say change the numbers since every artists' pages seem to exaggerate numbers. but seeing as how everyone is exaggerating (which they are - no one can actually calculate sales to equal such ridiculous numbers), it would be fair to put elvis as one of the best selling. beth4664 and ef1981 seem very angered that i even brought it up and are extremely biased to dispute other artists' sales but not elvis' sales (again, ALL are likely exaggerated - you cannot say that elvis' figures are accurate and everyone else exaggerates). the bottom line is we truly have no idea what actual sales are. but what we do know is that elvis is a very popular artist and for those reasons, we should label him as one of the best, not definitely the best or no mention. or at the very least, say he is possibly or quite possibly the best selling solo artist. the article assumes too much and sounds too sure of numbers that are not even calculated.
i should also bring up that just because artists are not popular in the us or uk does not mean they are not best sellers. rahman and wei wei are from the incredibly massive markets of india and china respectively. just being popular there (even though they are popular throughout the world in reality) makes them likely contenders. and just because they are not popular in the us does not mean they are not popular in the rest of the world. the world does not revolve around the us or even the uk. for example, bollywood, the hindi film industry, possibly outsells hollywood (by numbers not by money) and by a rather long margin according to many reports, yet very few people in the us actually watch those movies.Vpuliva (talk) 19:10, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
to elvisfan1981, i looked at the beatles page just now. while they also have that 1bln figure, they are careful in mentioning they are one of the best selling not the best selling. its very possible that other bands have outsold them, or they are best selling, but again it's not definite as there is no official worldwide tally of sales. i also looked at michael jackson's page and there is a similar statement made there as well. Vpuliva (talk) 19:54, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
to beth4664: I made no assumptions. I said that it is possible that other artists have outsold Elvis. It is also possible that Elvis is the best seller. But since there is no official worldwide tally as I said before, we cannot make that assumption that Elvis is THE best seller. I even suggested you add the word possible. But since he is very popular as I stated, we can say he is one of the best. Look at the Beatles wiki page. Many would agree they are the best selling band. But they are careful to say that they are one of the best, as it is not official - they even have a Guinness World Record for it unlike Elvis, yet they are professional in not making the bold assumption. Michael Jackson has a Guinness World Record for Most Succesful Entertainer of all Time, but their editors are also careful in not making a sweeping statement that he is the best selling. Also, if you still think I am making bold assumptions, at least I am doing so on this discussion page and not on the article page where people can potentially be mis-informed. By the way, I'm not sure if it is still up, but you can go to the Bollywood wiki page and there is a table there of stats. It can also be searched for on the net. It is supposedly the premier movie industry in Africa, Asia (which itself has the majority of the world's population), and was/could still be in Eastern Europe. It's also popular in Latin America, the Caribbean, Western Europe, and Australia. In any case, I said possibly - it is possible that Hollywood is actually better selling. Please read my responses carefully - don't be motivated to speak because of your anger and your bias for Elvis. I don't have to prove anything more - I agree Elvis is very popular, but so are so many other artists. You have to prove to me there is an actual official worldwide tally and show me those figures. Until you have this proof, I, along with others, can not be convinced that such a bold statement is really the case. I am not in any way bringing Presley down with my minor suggestions. By the way, it's Hindi the language, not the religion Hinduism. Also, it is possible more people speak Hindi than they do English. And it is possible for people to like things that are not American or British. Vpuliva (talk) 20:58, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
First of all, I'm not one bit "angered" by the suggestion that the page should say "...one of the best selling artists....", it said that for a very, very, very long time before someone changed it only a few days ago (and no, it wasn't me) and so I would please ask you kindly to take that back, there is absolutely no need for that kind of accusation. Secondly, I didn't say that because an artists isn't huge in the US or UK that they couldn't possibly have had more success than anyone else, the facts speak for themselves.
The problem here seems to be that the line states "...the best-selling solo artist in the history of music...." rather than "...one of the best-selling solo artists in the history of music...". So let's deal with that. Journalist Nick Keene writes, Elvis did not sell 1 billion records by 1982 which claim first appeared via an article in the 'Washington Post' dated 12 July of that year and quoted RCA as its source, nor is there any validity in the current claim of 1.5 billion - whatever Sony BMG may say in the liner notes on the back of one or two recent DVD releases. Rest assured my investigations reveal that Elvis is still by some distance the greatest record seller of all time, but even 26 years later it is no easy task trying to establish whether or not his sales have actually exceeded one billion copies.
So, perhaps the estimate of 1 billion record sales is exaggerated, perhaps it isn't, but it's still clear from his research, and research of many others, that Presley is the greatest record seller of all time. EPE claim 600 million sales in the US alone, and 400 million in the rest of the world. Roger Semon and Ernst Mikael Jørgensen, who have spent years researching Presley's music and record sales have stated, "As consultants to RCA Records we are 100% convinced that Elvis is the biggest selling artist of all time."
Sales for all artists, including Presley, the Beatles and Michael Jackson are very probably exaggerated, but it doesn't mean that they aren't the best selling artists of all time. Right now, as of this moment, Presley is regarded as the best selling solo artist of all time. In the future that may change, and when/if that time comes then it will be reflected in the article, but until then I believe, as I'm sure many others do, that it's fair to state Presley is the best selling solo artist of all time.
However, if it really upsets you so much that you need to alter it, then I won't contest your edit of the article, but I can't speak for the person who made the original edit. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 00:42, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Again, there is no official worldwide tally, but I do appreciate that you are open to an edit. Vpuliva (talk) 20:58, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
The article on Nick Adams has had similar problems with reliable sourcing. There's a good suggestion on the talk page under the heading "Shall we rename the article Nick Adams (hustler)?" A link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nick_Adams_%28actor%29 The gist of the idea is to include all notable speculation, but in its own section, or even to make a separate article on the source to link to.Rikidozan89 (talk) 06:40, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Opinion/speculation should not be included as fact. If a notable critic/artist gets quoted it's presented as opinion, and that's okay. I thought some of the sources were disputed. If they got their own section or article with a disclaimer, ex. "Disputed Claims", then they wouldn't be presented alongside other sources as fact, but would get a mention if notable. The Goldman book comes to mind.Rikidozan89 (talk) 16:53, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Back so soon you say,yeah I know,I must be some kind of masorchist I guess.
Rikidozan89,I can appreciate what you're saying and I thank you for your comments. I first read Albert Goldman's book many years ago and again just recently. The sad part was this book could have been one of the best books written on Presley,as he was the first author to find out the true identity of Col.Tom Parker. Superb investigative work on Goldman's part,I must say. However Goldman's attitude and contempt for the star,I believe sadly let him down.
The difference with say Gurlanich and Goldman,Gurlanick didn't help me know Presley,however he did help me understand him,something Goldman failed to do.
Goldman certainly did imply that Nick Adams had a homosexual relationship with James Dean,as have some other books on Dean. Goldman had also accused this with John Lennon and his manager Brian Epstein. All based on rumor and hearsay.
So I went over to the Wikipedia Article on Nick Adams main page,titled Friendship with Dean and Presley and it states: "In his book Elvis(1981) Albert Goldman wrote Nick Adams ingratiated himself with James Dean precisely as he would do a year or so later with Presley. He offered himself to the shy,emotionally contorted and rebelleous Dean,as a friend,guide,a boon companion,a homosexual lover - whatever role or service Dean required."
In his book,Goldman called Presley many things,that were clearly aimed to attack his masculinity. Things like for example: simply gorgeous,he looked outrageously gay,there was widespread suspicion that the singer was actively or latently homosexual,he looked like a big fat women that had just recovered from surgery. He even went as far as to make a snide remark about Presley's genitalia,calling it an ugly hillbilly pecker. In the end,he did say that though Presley was not homosexual his image was rough trade. Did he say or even hint that Nick Adams and Elvis were homosexual lovers? Emphatically the answer is no. Do I care? Not really. As far as I'm concerned,Albert Goldman crossed the line of what is known as common human decency.
In saying that the Wikipedia article on John Lennon,doesn't even mention Albert Goldman,they had the good sense not to even bother. The John Lennon article didn't need the likes of Goldman to reach it's GA rating and nether do we.--Jaye9 (talk) 04:45, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
I only post this because because Goldman does get listed as a source at the bottom of this page.Rikidozan89 (talk) 13:33, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
I think the second paragraph of this section referring to the Ed Sullivan show should be deleted. It's already been covered on a previous page. And I don't believe there was ever any rumor that Elvis wore a (ugh) fake penis.
I was a very little girl, but I remember the show clearly. It was a big event. A lot of relatives gathered at my aunt's and uncle's house, because they were the first in the family to own a TV. We knew from the papers that Sullivan was not going to show Elvis from the waist down when he was performing, because he moved his his hips. That was considered obscene at the time.
And that is exactly what happened. When he was performing, the camera stayed above his waist, but it was apparent from his upper-body movements that he was moving or dancing. Everybody commented on it. However, when he walked out on the stage, when he took a bow, when he stood next to Ed Sullivan, the camera showed his entire body.
Ed Sullivan was very much a prude and very conservative. He did not hire off-color comedians or acts of questionable taste. Ed would never had hired Elvis if there were a chance that Sullivan would be nationally embarrassed and humiliated.
Since you have no source for this, and you state clearly it was a rumor, I believe it should be deleted.Beth4664 (talk) 15:35, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Presley appeared three different nights on the Sullivan show. On the first two shows he was shown in full, even performing the infamous "Hound Dog" - see Sullivan Show article for screen shot. Only on the 3rd show, when he did nothing but ballads in full, was he shown from the waist up only. It was common for a person to be shown in a variety of shots, with "close ups" during slow passages. Steve Pastor (talk) 03:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
The "Sex Symbol"/Relationships section of this article is, I believe, choked up with a lot of irrelevant information and reads in part like a porno Mills and Boon--needs some serious work done to it.--Jaye9 (talk) 06:01, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
You can see some of the pictures yourself in the Sullivan Show article. Not that I'm looking for it, but, you know, I just don't see it. There IS a video clip where someone fromt he show states that he took Elvis out to by a jock strap for this show. Can't help but wonder if that isn't where the rumor started. I have implored people to view these shows for themselves. You can probably get them through your public library and an interlibrary loan, maybe Netflix, etc. Some of this is on YouTube, too. If more people would actually see what actually happened, maybe, eventually, all of the junk that's been written will be discredited. Please, people, see for yourself, and help make this article reflect what we can see and hear with our own senses, rather than rumor, hearsay, and "experts" telling us what happened. Steve Pastor (talk) 00:36, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
I have to disagree with you on this one forty one. Your reason for this being notable is because this shows that the media censored Elvis. That implies that he actually did something in order to be censored when it's not verified that he ever wore "the device". Even the producer doesn't claim that Presley wore anything in his crotch, he merely says that they took a precaution based on an unverified rumour. That has nothing to do with Presley's actual behaviour, and the situation reflects much more on the people that started/spread the rumour, and the producer that decided to take a precaution because of it, hence it doesn't belong in the article. Your reason for it being notable is bunk.Rikidozan89 (talk) 14:33, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Also there are other sourced reasons for why Elvis was only shot from the waist up for the third Sullivan show. However the crotch thing is the only reason given seperate from the others and given its own paragraph in the mistitled Sex Symbol section. Not to mention the direct quoting of Marlo Lewis doesn't include the phrase "therefore it was decided to shoot Presley from only the waist up" he's just quoted as saying there was a rumour. The Marjorie Garber stuff doesn't seem like it should even be up for discussion. It does elaborate, but only on boyhood rumours that it doesn't even verify. That's encyclopedic?Rikidozan89 (talk) 15:25, 31 July 2009 (UTC) Edit: You know what? I can't even edit this article. I'm done commenting. If it's decided by the editors that actually work on the article that none of my comments have been helpful then sorry.Rikidozan89 (talk) 15:33, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
I never did finish this exchange, so I guess I should elaborate before leaving the article. "Marlo Lewis himself says that Presley was shot only from the waist up during the show in order to ensure that his prosthetic self-endowment would not grace America's living rooms. So they were convinced that Elvis had a soft-drink bottle inside his pants. And this fact is important because it was the main reason why the singer was censored." Then why is this not quoted in the article? Marlo Lewis is just quoted as saying there was a rumour. Rikidozan89 (talk) 10:33, 1 August 2009 (UTC)Edit: I accidentally messed around with the wrong text but reverted the edit.Rikidozan89 (talk) 10:51, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
'"Elvis has been hanging a small soft-drink bottle from his groin underneath his pants, and when he wiggles his leg it looks as though his pecker reaches down to his knee!"[171] Therefore, it was decided to shoot the singer only from the waist up during his performance in the Sullivan Show.'You see how the second sentence is not quoted to Marlo Lewis. The sentence that indicates that they censored Elvis because of the rumor is not quoted to Lewis.Rikidozan89 (talk) 11:24, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
It's a summary? I don't have the book but I do know that wikipedia is meant to be read and understood by the average unresourced reader. If you have a quote of Lewis saying "we censored Elvis because of the soft drink bottle rumor" it should most definitely be included, but if you can't quote the source in a manner that makes it clear the source actually said what you are claiming, then you might be oversummarizing into implication. Also if lewis is quoted as saying such a thing it belongs in the section concerning the Ed Sullivan show appearances where the other listed reasons for the censorship are located. It doesn't belong in the Sex Symbol section because it has nothing to do with him being a sex symbol, or even Presley's own behaviour. It has much more to do with the Ed Sullivan Show and the people that ran it, so it should be placed in that section. "Interestingly, Lewis also says that they censored Elvis because of the rumor concerning the soft-drink bottle inside his pants on his second appearance." This should be easy to directly quote.Rikidozan89 (talk) 16:25, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Since I don't have the book, and don't plan to get it since I can't even edit this article I can't really get into this anymore. I still stand by my opinion that you should be able to quote this convincingly, and that it belongs in the Ed Sullivan show section as it reflects on the producers's decisions and not Elvis. The lead bar story has no significance whatsoever since it doesn't add anything relevant to the Sullivan show "censorship". These two sources, while on the same subject, don't support one another. Good luck with the article.Rikidozan89 (talk) 17:05, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
So, we are supposed to believe that, although Elvis was on two previous shows, both times being shown in full as he performed, including, again "Hound Dog", with several months having elapsed, and THEN, someone heard this rumor. Or... what? They knew about it all along, but didn't act until the last show, when Elvis did a medley of "Hound Dog," "Love Me Tender," and "Heartbreak Hotel," followed by a full version of "Don't Be Cruel." For a second set later in the show he did "Too Much" and "When My Blue Moon Turns to Gold Again". For his last set he sang "Peace in the Valley."? Steve Pastor (talk) 21:55, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
The boyhood friend you speak of,was a young country singer of the day. David Houston,a friend of Elvis's from Shrevoport who travelled with him extensively in this period. I got this information from Albert Goldman's 1981 book "Elvis".
I saw a show about Ed Sullivan and it showed interviews of people who had been guests on his show,etc etc. I got the idea that Ed Sullivan was a very powerful man at the time and he could make you or break you. One particular gentleman stands out in my mind. He was a Jewish Commedian and Sullivan had accused him of giving him the ups,after his performance,he said he did'nt. Because of this incident,this man said Sullivan made sure he didn't work again in the business for years to come,which clearly shows a misuse of power on Ed Sullivan's part and you could say this about what happened to the the band the "Doors" as well. Ed Sullivan told Jim Morrison not to say "Girl we couldn't get much higher". Morrison took no notice of what Ed Sullivan had said and did anyway on National Live Television. The Doors had more shows planned on the Ed Sullivan,because of what Jim Morrison did that night,they were cancelled outright. All these rumors,be as they may,just don't add up.
It's a wonder Byron Raphael hadn't attached himself to these rumors about the Ed Sullivan Shows,as well,instead he would say with his interview with Nash in 2003,or whenever it was,that Elvis not only unzipped his pants and dry humped RCA 's Nipper on stage,before thousands in October 28,1957. He had a huge hard on and was well as being well endowed. Give me a break.
Where do all these rumors come from,I have no idea. But like rumors and gossip,they have a way of manifestering themselves and I believe it is human nature for people to attach themselve,and they will,particulary when they had really not that much to do with Presley in the first place. They say things to make themselves more important in the scale of things. I say let them,but they have no place or importance in an Encylopedia Article,it just draws away from what is important and that is the importance of these shows and what they represented in Presley's career.
From reading and viewing reports taken from the 50's,it consistantly shows Ed Sullivan was concerned about all the controversy surrounding Elvis's wiggling and sexually suggestive movements,not toilet rolls,coke bottles and huge hard on's etc that came later.
Please show me testimony's,from Ed Sullivan,Scotty Moore,DJ Fonatna,The Jordanaires and anyting that was written during the 50's pertaining to these rumors and then and only then,I will listen. But until you can 141,it's not worthy for inclusion into an Encylopedia article of this nature,ok.--Jaye9 (talk) 03:07, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Is the all you've got? It's not what asked for.--Jaye9 (talk) 04:46, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
It mentions nothing of what I was talking about. It's a lame duck,quack!quack!quack!--Jaye9 (talk) 05:07, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Please don't repeat your same tired, circular argument. I've heard it about ten times. You're in a rut. If we were to take a vote, I vote that rumors do not belong in an encyclopedia. It's not professional. Your argument that the rumors exist so they must be printed is hogwash. No serious writer uses that principle. I don't believe that there were any such rumors at all in 1956, true or false, and I won't believe it unless one turns up in a newspaper or magazine from that decade and not 20 years later.Beth4664 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:18, 2 August 2009 (UTC).
This is all very well and good, and I must admit that it's very interesting to read (despite the fact I've already read it), but it still doesn't bring any proof to the table of cardboard tubes or bottles being under his clothing. Everything that has been put forth so far is in reference to his stage presence and his movements on stage, nothing to do with tubes or bottles. And while I mention the bottles, were these plastic or glass bottles? I only ask because it was very, very rare for any types of soda bottle to be made of plastic at the time all of this happened, it wasn't until the 1960's that plastic bottles really became a big part of the food industry. I would imagine that a glass bottle would be very uncomfortable to wear. And again I must emphasise that rumours are not good enough to be included in an encyclopaedic article. It's also interesting, I must note, that you don't include the mention of the writer of the above letter suggesting that Presley "...may possibly be a drug addict...". Such claims were obviously far off the mark, and therefore it lends very little weight to the entire letter. The gossip of the Presley Fan Clubs degenerating into sex orgies is just hilarious and ludicrous at the same time. Clearly the writer of that letter was very easily swayed by 'gossip' and 'rumour', enough to take the time to write to the FBI about it. However, what's even more interesting is the fact that in his book "The FBI Files on Elvis Presley", where the above letter is reportedly taken from, the author states at the beginning that "'The earliest set of documents in the Presley file is correspondence dated March and April, 1959 regarding a death threat made when Presley was serving in the U.S. Army in Germany.'". Fascinating then that a letter dated May 16 1955 then appears in its pages. Also, fascinating that whilst scanning the pages of the book there is no mention of "1955" anywhere within it from pages 15-17. However, on page 14 there is reference to 'May 16 1956', and an article published on that date which the writer of the above letter is using as the main ammunition in their attack on Presley is on page 15. I would suggest that you use Google with a pinch of salt next to you, as it's very common for people to make typing mistakes on there too.ElvisFan1981 (talk) 17:09, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
In the article, it states that Priscilla Presley won her case against Currie Grant for his false claims in Suzanne Finstad's book. It then goes on to imply that both Finstad and her publishers back the claims in the book after the case is finished. However, one of the sources given to back up this claim is from during the case, before Priscilla won and it stands to reason that the publishers would stand by the claims.
"Currie Grant 'is being sued' for defamatory remarks he allegedly made to Finstad and others about the actress..."
Notice it is not in the past tense? Therefore the paragraph must be rewritten to emphasise that Finstad and her publishers stood by the claims during the case, or it should be removed altogether. I can't find the other articles that are cited from September, so if Onefortyone could give me those links I would very much appreciate it. If those links show that both Finstad and her publishers still backed the claims 'after' Priscilla won the case, then they are eligible to be used as citations. Otherwise, the entire sentence must be removed. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 21:37, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I've done my own research, I've spent the last 1+ hours searching for these sources you have claimed since you posted them, and I couldn't find any of the sources you have cited except for one, and that one didn't actually say what you claim it says, therefore it contradicts your citation. As these other sources aren't checkable (They're not from books, they're from newspapers which should be available somewhere online but unless you provide the actual link, as other websites and news stories do in wikipedia articles, then they can't stay) I have no choice but to remove your recent edits and the entire sentence until it can be properly sourced. I'm also prepared to do what Steve suggests above and remove your recent edits about the rumours, as they aren't encyclopaedic in any way, but I'll sleep on that one and see how I feel in the morning.
I don't understand your sudden change of attitude. You've always been cool, relaxed and eager to please with countless quotes and sources. Suddenly, when a source you have cited is proven to not back up your claims, and you are unable to provide the others that you claim, then you resort to suggesting we do our own research. Well, as I've said above, I've done my own research and nothing I can find backs your sources. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 22:50, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Steve Pastor has written: "Another reminder about how this works. Any individual editor can revert an edit up to three times. At that point, if they continue to revert, they are in violation of the 3 revert rule. Enough of you have stated your opinions on this. I suggest that you "vote" with your edits - to the material in question. I agree with those of you who feel that this material does not belong in this article. I began this discussion with removal of this material from one part of the article. If you can edit the article I suggest you all do the same, in line with your opinions."
This is of course an excellent reminder, and it should be done where possible. However, many sections need time-consuming rewriting and with some sort of agreement. And let's not forget how jaded most people feel about doing that!!
I have - if anyone didn't know - been restructuring and rewriting this article here [27] to cut opinion, rumor, sensationalism, etc. out and STICK TO THE FACTS as much as is possible. It has been well regarded by many in its own right, and as a 'clean start'.
As a result, I already had a suitable edit ready to address Steve Pastor's long-standing misgivings about nervousness being the cause of Presley's leg shaking on stage. I had already amended the sandbox version to meet the excellent point made by Steve Pastor: I just copied and pasted it from the sandbox version, after deleting the same section in the main article. Perhaps further edits could be done the same way. Rikstar409 09:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Elvis never played bass only guitar, piano to his loved ones, and vocals.
He was born ELVIS ARON PRESLEY, but Changed it to AARON after Aaron in the bible —Preceding unsigned comment added by Master of Articles (talk • contribs) 17:46, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
I've done a bit of work on the article tonight, I hope that others don't find it too much of a disaster. I've mainly focused on separating sections instead of having one massive Biography section with 1.1 - 1.22 within it. I browsed a few other biographies similar to this article and found that they all did the same. I think it's a slight improvement, but that's my personal opinion. I'd be interested to hear what others have to say about it.
I've also added a few paragraphs that I felt would add to some sections, and I've jiggled around with the order of others. Really, other than that, I haven't done too much that has changed the article, but over the next few days I'm hoping to dig in and do some culling. I'm particularly focusing on quotations and lines from books. Does anyone else think that it would be a good place to start to remove a number of quotes and so on? It's just an idea for now. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 22:21, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Just a suggestion: "(January 8, 1935 – August 16, 1977; middle name sometimes spelled Aron)" in the first sentence/paragraph would best read: "Elvis Aaron (sometimes spelled Aron) Presley (January 8, 1935 – August 16, 1977)" or add the comment about his middle name spelling in the Early Life section, adding his middle name and explanation there (in the section about his adolescence) instead of ...16, 1977; middle name... Thanks! =) 69.129.170.102 (talk) 08:22, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
ELVIS WAS MANY THINGS, BUT A BARITONE? ELVIS MIGHT'VE BEEN A LOW ALTO OR A HIGH TENOR, BUT A BARITONE---NOT. SOPRANOS AND BARITONES ARE USUALLY WOMEN, BUT NOT ALL THE TIME, THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE INVOLVED IN MUSIC CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN ALTO SAXOPHONE AND A BARITONE SAXOPHONE. ELVIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH BARITONE.
AS FAR AS I REMEMBER, ELVIS DIED IN 1977 ON AUGUST 17TH. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.4.146.238 (talk) 18:07, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm currently reading Elvis and the Memphis Mafia by Alanna Nash, and on page 29 Billy Smith (Elvis' cousin) says that it was June 13 1953 (Saturday) when Elvis first walked into Sun Studios and recorded My Happiness and That's When Your Heartaches Begin. I'm aware that most sources cite July 18, but certain elvis.com would have the correct date, I had a look there to check if Billy Smith was just wrong. Strangely, elvis.com do not give a date for that first recording, which makes me wonder if perhaps July 18 can't be confirmed. According to elvispresleymusic.com.au, the date July 18 was chosen by Lee Cotton "...by matching the story of a hot summer Saturday afternoon with a salary advance that Elvis received on July 14." Should we assume that Billy Smith is mistaken and accept the famous July 18 date, or should we take into account the fact that elvis.com don't cite a particular date and accept that Billy Smith might actually be right, and change the date? ElvisFan1981 (talk) 11:53, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
"The day in July that Elvis finally forced himself inside the Memphis Recording Services was a Saturday,not a weekday,which should dispel any notion that he was taking off a couple of minutes from his lunch hour to shell out $4.00,one tenth of his salary,to make a record on mere impulse". Source: "Elvis and Gladys by Elaine Dundy p.173 (1985)
"It was a Saturday afternoon,a busy,busy afternoon,and for some reason I happened to be alone in the office",she said.
"While he was waiting his turn,we had a conversation I had reason to remember for many years afterwards,because later I had to tell the story so often. He said he was a singer. I said,"What kind of singer are you?" He said,'I don't sound like nobody,' I thought,oh yeah,one of those. I said Hillbilly? He said,'Yeah,I sing hillbilly'. I said,who do you sound like in hillbilly? He said,'I don't sound like nobody'. Source: "Elvis The Biography" by Jerry Hopkins p.41 (updated 2007)
"He showed up at the office of the Memphis Recording Service sometime in mid to late summer,two or three months after graduation". Source: "Last Train to Memphis" by Peter Gurlanick p.58 (1994) Peter Gurlanich also states it was a Saturday.
"Several months passed and on January 4,1954,a Friday,Elvis revisited the Memphis Recording Service a second time,when Marion was out and Sam was in." Source: "Elvis" by Jerry Hopkins (1971)
ElvisFan1981,this is a hard one,who do we choose? Do we go with Lee Cotton's date of July 18 or Billy Smith's date of June 13 1953? In all fairness to Billy Smith,Alanna Nash's book came out in 1995,after Elaine Dundy and Peter Gurlanick's book "Last Train to Memphis". What does concern me however is the Jerry Hopkins updated version,still doesn't mention any date,it just says Summer 1953 and he had interview Marion Kieser back in 1970 and she gave no dates and she was there. Had a look at the Sun Studios Website,this also gives no date,again it just says Summer 1953. However the Sun Studios Website and elvis.com do concur with Jerry Hopkins stating Jan,1954,Elvis makes another Sun demo acetate. I also had a look at the Scotty Moore book and "The Elvis Encyclopedia" by Adam Victor (2008),again,both source make no mention of any dates. For this reason I am a little reluctant to think we should state any date,until we can find a source to back their claims. However in saying they all seem to agree that it was a Saturday and in Summer and some agree on the month of July.--Jaye9 (talk) 07:01, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
ElvisFan,you found a date in The Elvis Encyclopedia by Adam Victor. Do you know I missed it. This is reason I think It's really handy,if we are able to cross check the same books. Thanks for that. However,because of the conflicting dates mentioned by differenent sources,I think it would be wise for it to just read "In the summer of 1953..." also.--Jaye9 (talk) 00:29, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
Hey guys, I must start saying that I know very little about Elvis' life.
I first came today to read this article and gain some insight, but I'm disappointed by the awful lot of quoting that has been done, there are even some sections that seem to have been entirely composed by copy pasting quotes (many of them highly opinionated) from biographers and journalists.
One thing is to mention your sources when you write something, which is acceptable and usually required to give credibility to your text, but another completely different is to compose an article with external quotes, that is not very appropriate for an encyclopedia.
It is nice to see that there are experts here who read a lot of books about Elvis, but try to state the facts first and leave the biographers' opinions for the fans. Think that not everyone who comes to read this article is an Elvis fan, some of us came to read about him for the first and we might not care about so much speculation or reflections from biographers. Of course removing it would imply losing some information but I think that's acceptable to improve the overall encyclopedic quality of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.219.148.14 (talk) 04:22, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Well said,couldn't agree with you more.--Jaye9 (talk) 06:24, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
I've read that one of the main reasons Parker set up his deals with Hill & Range the way he did, is because they put up $15,000 of the $40,000 fee for Elvis' contract. According to Marty Lacker RCA paid $20,000 and gave Elvis $5,000, and Hill & Range put up $15,000 to Sun Records for a co-publishing deal on Sam Phillip's Hi-Lo Music publishing company. Also he states that Hill & Range insisted on the publishing rights to at least one side of every Elvis single. That's why, according to Lacker, that Elvis had to pick songs from them for the rest of his life. Does anyone else have any sources that could back this up? Right now the article seems to suggest that it was all RCA that put up the $40,000, something which I always believed too, and it doesn't mention anything about Hill & Range putting any money up.
My source is the book I'm currently reading, Alanna Nash's Elvis and the Memphis Mafia, page 48 of the paperback edition (Chapter 6). ElvisFan1981 (talk) 12:52, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
"Company lawyer Ben Starr was present in Memphis on November 21,1955 for the signing of Elvis' new recording contract for RCA. Hill and Range contributed $1,000 (or $2,500 as Julian Aberbach recalled in 2002) as an advance on a 50-50 song publishing partnership with Elvis, through the newly-formed Elvis Music company. By some accounts,the publishing company actually put up half the money for the RCA buyout of Evis' Sun contract. As part of the overall deal,Hill & Range also purchased the publishing rights to almost all of Elvis' Sun songs registered to Sam Phillips' Hi-Lo Music company,reputedly for and additional $15,000. Elvis and the Colonel were to receive a third of songwriting royalties on future recordings." Source: "The Elvis Encyclopedia" by Adam Victor p.231--Jaye9 (talk) 12:41, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
ElvisFan your confused,I always thought it was called Gladys Music? It's fun working on Elvis isn't mate,like a maze(or haze). This is what Peter Gurlanick had to say: "They finally worked out an option deal. The option would take effect on Monday,October 31,and allow Parker two weeks to raise $5,000 (until midnight,November 15). The deal was predicated on a $35,000 purchase price-not surprisingly,Sam Phillips did not budge,and undoubtedly part of him was hoping that the price would not be met-and the full amount had to be raised,and the contract executed,within one month by December 1,1955. The $5,000 was not refundable and the deadline would not be extended." Source: "Last Train to Memphis" p.227
ElvisFan,just quickly while I'm here,I've been told that Lamar Fike would be the one who would be most informed,when it comes to Presley's music,as he worked for Hill & Range,so I image he must have given Marty Lacker his information surely. But then he didn't know Elvis in 1955. I'll have a look at the EPE website tommorrow if you like,as they have all the archieves and paperwork on contracts etc,obtained from Parker and I believe he kept everything.--Jaye9 (talk) 13:29, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
ElvisFan,here's what I managed to find: "By now,the Colonel had turned the heat up on Sam Phillips to allow Elvis to leave Sun Records. Though the singer's singles had all sold well,the label was heavily in debt. For many months,Phillips had refused all offers for Elvis's contract,each time requesting a sum so high that the offer was withdrawn. After the Colonel negotiated to sell Elvis behind the Sun owner's back,a furious Phillips told him that he would only sell for a phenomenal $35,000 plus $5,000 that he owed Elvis in back royalties. The Colonel persuaded RCA to come up with the money and on the 21 November 1955 Elvis officially became an RCA artist." Source:"The Official Collector's Edition Elvis" (Part 6)
This is a magazine that is in association with Elvis Presley Enterprises,Inc and has access to all of the Estate's archieves,which they replicate for their magazines. They have a copy of the contract giving permission for RCA to sign Elvis from Sun Records for an unprecedented $35,000. I read the contract and it's exactly what Gurlanick had stated and I imagine,that Gurlanick had viewed this contract as well,when he went through the Estate's archieves,where he did some his research for his books on Elvis. Gurlanick also pointed out the Parker did not have the money himself,which makes it all sound pretty feasible to me. What other wheeling and dealing went on,one would never know. Hope this helps.--Jaye9 (talk) 15:08, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/one_billion_record_sales.shtml —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamesyull (talk • contribs) 16:30, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~presley/elnews-ElvisRecordSales.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamesyull (talk • contribs) 15:40, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
http://www.elvispresleynews.com/ElvisFuneral.html
http://www.elvis.com/news/full_story.asp?id=131
http://www.elvisinfonet.com/elvisvsbeatlespart1.html
http://www.elvis.com/elvisology/faq/faq.asp?qid=8
^^^^^ says it all right there "It is estimated that Elvis has sold over one billion records worldwide, more than anyone else in the history of the record business. It is estimated that 60% of these sales have been in the United States and 40% in other countries. Not all of Elvis' record sales have been documented, so the one-billion figure is a good faith estimate among the Elvis-knowledgeable." Case Closed :P
no you are wrong elvis fan beacuse elvis sold 400 million woldwide as the first article states beacuse they calculate his sales
I also wanted to show you the last three are fan made beacuse they do not calculate his overall sales and fans will believe anything they read without adding up sales
Futermore about the michael jacksons solo sales if you add up all his solo albums and singles he has out sold Elvis
Do you lot actually think Elvis sold 1 billion records that is as wrong as Michael jackson 750 million figure or the beatles figure which says they sold 1 billion —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamesyull (talk • contribs) 17:29, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
no one here knows who sold the most reocrds he is another article which compares their sales
Rememeber again that they are not calculating their sales they as just saying they have sold this much
http://www.bvnewswire.com/2009/07/02/michael-jackson-someting-in-common-with-elvis/2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamesyull (talk • contribs) 17:45, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
artists getting treat differtly http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124760651612341407.html
Michael jacksobn sales are an impressive total, and second only to the Beatles, but far fewer than 750 million
This means he has out sold elvis
Mr. Jackson's record label, Sony Music, declined to share sales numbers. Ms. Bain didn't respond to requests for comment; she sued Mr. Jackson in May after their business relationship ended. In her lawsuit, she claimed Mr. Jackson sold "over 1 billion records world-wide
It also speaks about other artists sales
Inflated numbers aren't unique to Mr. Jackson. The Beatles' supposed one-billion-plus sales record also reflects an estimate of the number of songs, not albums, according to trackers of such landmarks. Other performers, such as AC/DC, Julio Iglesias and ABBA, supposedly are members of the 200 million album club, but compiled sales figures put their respective totals closer to 100 million.
Units could be interpreted to mean a rough tally of the number of songs sold, not albums. But many journalists and fans interpreted the figure as albums sold, and a wildly inflated number was born. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clifffrichard (talk • contribs) 13:47, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
What is about the internet,with it's endless surveys and polls on who sold more and how many they sold etc,etc,etc. Who's accurate?be my guest. I kind of find it all a little bit childish in a way. I know it sounds a little cleshay for me to say this,but I really like Michael Jackson and his music had a huge impact on me and millions of others.
I read this from EIN recently,that I found interesting reading, about the Jackson v Presley hype: "With a vigorous debate and much hype surrounding the death of Michael Jackson and his relative status compared to Elvis and the Beatles,EIM decided to take a look at what is actually happening on the ground rather that in the rhetorical world of our increasing tabliod mass media,and the ivory towered and specious multinational record companies."
"The words "hype" and "exaggeration" appear to be symbolic of the media's reaction to the sad death of music icon Michael Jackson. Possessed with a personal genius as a songwriter and choreograher,Jackson's unfortunate end,like the deaths of Elvis and John Lennon before him,will undoubtedly and justifiably leave an unfillable vacuum in part of the music world."
"Physical sales: In many respects it is difficult to compare the impact of Michael Jackson's death with that of Elvis. The music landscape has changed dramatically since 1977 when 12" vinyl reigned supreme. Today,sales of CDs continue to decline and the boom area is in downloud music."
"Jackson's Number Ones' album is at #1 but with total sales of only 108,000 copies...a figure well down or what was needed in the 1970s and 1980s to have a #1 hit. At #9 'The Untimate collection compile which needed only 11,000 sales to make the billboard top 10!" Source: EIN,6 July 2009--Jaye9 (talk) 13:10, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
The claims of a billion plus album sales for The Beatles and Elvis is record company hype. The only two reliable measuring agencies in the US - the RIAA and Soundscan have The Beatles considerably ahead of Elvis Presley in album sales. The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry published its updated list of the 150 highest selling artists ever and confirms The Beatles as the biggest selling artists of all time.
1. The Beatles (40 albums) 400,000,000 2. Michael Jackson (14 albums) 350,000,000 3. Elvis Presley (150 albums) 300,000,000 4. Madonna (16 albums) 275,000,000 5. Nana Mouskouri (450 albums) 250,000,000
To say that Elvis has 300 uncertified albums in the US does not stand up to scutiny. According to Joel Whitburn’s Top Pop Albums 1955-1992, Elvis released 96 albums that charted during that period. Of those 22 did not make the top 100, that is they sold very few copies. Another 26 did not make the top 40 again selling few copies. Elvis had 48 top 40 albums, 25 top 10 albums and 9 number 1 albums between 1955 and 1992.
Elvis has not released 200 plus albums in the US in the past 17 years.
The Beatles had 27 top 40 albums, 23 top 10 albums and 15 number 1 albums up to 1992. The Beatles currently have 19 number 1 albums compared to 10 number 1 albums by Elvis.
The Beatles are the biggest selling recording artists of all time.
The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry published its updated list of the 150 highest selling artists ever.
01. The Beatles 400,000,000
02. Michael Jackson 350,000,000
03. Elvis Presley 300,000,000
04. Madonna 275,000,000
05. Nana Mouskouri 250,000,000 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clifffrichard (talk • contribs) 13:59, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
As you cannot find a way to count every single unit sold world wide then you cannot say that Elvis is the biggest selling artist of all time. If you look at the charted positions of the Elvis albums that were released prior to 1958 then there were no massive sales during that period.
Also the two albums that were released around the time of his death (Moody Blue on 7/23/1977 and Elvis in Concert on 10/29/1977 which peaked at #3 and #5 respectively on the Billboard charts) did not have massive sales.
You can talk all you like about massive sales being not measured by RCA or the RIAA but the sales that were measured were not great - it is strange that the measurable album sales were few but the sales not measured were massive. As a statistician by profession I work with data/facts not supposition, rumour or guesswork. In the audited figures The Beatles have sold more records (albums and singles included) that any other recording artist. Sales that cannot be proven are just not valid and are not reliable. If you cannot trust Soundscan and the RIAA then you cannot trust any figures.
Elvis may have more partials but that does not mean they are each .9 of a million. They may only be a few thousand - you should not make assumptions. As The Beatles have outsold Elvis by 27 million since 1991 (source: Soundscan) when each album sold is measurable, this is consistent with The Beatles outselling Elvis by 24 million in the previous years considering The Beatles gave Elvis many years and many millions start. The Beatles 1 album has sold 11 million plus albums in the US compared to 4 million plus for Elvis Number 1’s album - a considerable difference in the same market place for the same product. This is a potent indication of their current sales capacity.
You may think Elvis is the best - you are entitled to your opinion. That is subjective and I am not entering that debate. When it comes to record sales that can be measured then The Beatles win easily.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson michael jackson wikipedia page it says he has estimated sales between 350 million and 750 million records worldwide i agree with this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles The Beatles sold between 600 million and one billion records internationally I agree with this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis it say He is one of the best-selling solo artists in the history of music, selling over one billion records worldwide
that is wrong so change it since both michael jackson and the beatles pages have been changed like we said we will give each of these artist the same treatment —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clifffrichard (talk • contribs) 16:26, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Im just saying we should change elvis is wikipedia page from over 1 billion to claimed sales of 1 billion or estimated sales between 300 million and 1 billion http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/1760014.stm http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm_headline=30-years-after-his-death-why-elvis-aaron-presley-is-still-the-king-uh-huh-huh&method=full&objectid=19639018&siteid=66633-name_page.html
like we done for both michael jackson and the beatles —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clifffrichard (talk • contribs) 20:50, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
elvis fan i am a fan of all three of these artits but i am just saying lets included both article the ones which claim 300 million and 1 billion
beacuse we both know elvis has not sold 1 billion at most 400 million —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clifffrichard (talk • contribs) 18:00, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
and since you did change it i will try to help you out beacuase the sources you are using is not reliable beacuase it a forum
let me give you two which claim 1 billion
http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/elvispresley/biography
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,337778,00.html
but rememember to include the ones which also claim 300 million for him beacuse their are many more i could give —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clifffrichard (talk • contribs) 18:10, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
first of all elvis did not sell 400 million in the usa he sold 120 million http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?table=tblTopArt
also elvis did not sell that much outside the usa
elvis sold 92 million singles woldwide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_singles_worldwide
elvis is not even on the best selling albums http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_worldwide
elvis has not sold that much in countries like japan, brazil or australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_in_Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_in_Brazil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_in_Australia
he not sold that much in the uk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_in_United_Kingdom —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clifffrichard (talk • contribs) 18:35, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I know you are a fan of him but he has sold between 300 million and 1 billion
if you want to use the 1 billion plus sales for the elvis, you use the 300 mlllion figure too
its that simple
wiki is not about what YOU deem to be likely or not
it is about reporting reliable sources in a consistent manner
and many more sources are quoting the 300 mill figure. whether you think theyre copying eachother is irrelvant
you are trying to say seemingly overinflated sales such as 1 billion is correct
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clifffrichard (talk • contribs) 17:23, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
I found this 2006 interview with Ernst Jorgensen and EIN. Clifff,I appreciate you taking the time and effort in citing your various sources about Elvis' sales figures. We'd have to all agree it's all rather complicated. Clifff I'm an Elvis Fan,that goes without saying,but I can assure you,all I want for this article,is for it to be as accurate as possible. When I think of Elvis' recordings,I think of Ernst Jorgensen,though I try to be open on other views as well.but I beleive he is both well equiped and knowledgable on this particular subject and in viewing the above and what Jorgensen has to say,I tend to agree with ElvisFan1981 suggestion on what the article would show,with the estimated figure being 600 million to one billion. Please,I hope we can settle on that. Anyway,here's what Jorgensen had to say on this complicated subject.
EIN: Several people have claimed that the 1 billion sales figure for Elvis (and The Beatles) is based on each sale of an album being multiplied by the number of it's tracks. Obviously,using this argument makes it much easier to justify a 1 billion claim. What can you tell us about this in the context of BMG's claim that Elvis has sold more than 1 billion records & CDs?
EJ: The claim was historically made by somebody else,before I was involved. I have only a vague,and not supportive idea of how they reached that number. It wasn't by doing the above multiplication-if so,the number would be staggering (for both The Beatles and Elvis).
EIN: The figure of 1 billion has been around for a long time now. What is BMG's official position in 2006 on how many record & CD's Elvis has sold worldwide?
EJ: I don't know if BMG wants to have an official position on this,but I believe that 1 billion is quite likely.
EIN: What percentage of these sales relate to North America?
EJ: On a normal release ("30 Number 1 Hits" as an example),total sales are 1/3 from the U.S. and 2/3 from the rest of the world.
EIN: Official RIAA in the U.S. put Elvis' sales well behind the 600 million or so units claimed for North America. A huge jump in accredited figures will be needed to bridge the 400 million sales difference - Do you think that this is likely to happen or will we continue to see incremental gains in Elvis'overall accredited sales position?
EJ: I'm not sure I understand the question! However,there are many factors contributing to the issue. For example:
EIN: What is your view on once and for all "proving" the 1 billion sales claim?
EJ: I think "proving" it is very unlikely. We would never be able to find substantial "new" evedience. Since we are SONY/BMG and NOT RCA Records,we only have what we inherited on buying the company in 1986. So please don't blame it on us!!! (ha!!)
EIN: Apart from the USA,what is the next biggest Elvis sales market (country)?
EJ: England,certainly.
EIN: And how popular is Elvis in South America?
EJ: Elvis has been very popular in South American Countries. Historically,however,his sales are certainly less than in Europe. It is one of Elvis' great qualities how he appeals to people in all countries. Source: "EIN 2006Interview with Ernst Jorgensen" Hope this helps --Jaye9 (talk) 02:38, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
Yah hes dead —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.111.34.163 (talk) 16:21, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone know or how Elvis was branded as the King Of Roll And Rock? Or who named him as such? For example, Elizabeth Taylor branded Michael Jackson ther King Of Pop in 1989.Jeremy (talk) 11:31, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Look up "Elvis presley,1958 Army physical"In the photo it show's Elvis, along with 8 to 10 other guy's,lined up against wall with their hands up.A majority of them or looking in the same direction as Elvis is, to the person giving instructions.ZOOM in on the photo and you can see Elvis eyes,he is not looking at the guy next to him but at the person giving instructions.You should have showed the whole photo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by J2418M (talk • contribs) 13:05, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah,I remember reading some little story on this,that was brought up on the Elvis Talk page some time ago. After reading it,I knew they were talking about that photo you mentioned. Also,that story alo mentioned that the photgrapher was gay,but didn't mention the photographers name. Well his name was Bill Burk. I didn't bother responding to it,but I'm just letting you know,that I read it and knew it was the army photo you speak of. Why an editor would bother bringing some stupid tabliod story like that to the Elvis talk page is beyond me. This editor occassionlly likes adding attachments with Elvis photos,but didn't on the that occassion,for obvious reasons.--Jaye9 (talk) 22:00, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
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