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I see there is a John Boyd who has the exact same date of birth and who also played as a winger on Barry Hugman's Footballers. The link is here: http://hugmansfootballers.com/player/2004
Hugman doesn't list Alan as a middle name and suggests he was born in Massachusetts in the USA and died in Horsham, England in 2007. The Massachusetts birth would make sense because although Dumbarton as a place of birth is listed on his profile on Aberdeen FC's website, Scotland's People (the official and full birth/death records of Scotland) suggests that nobody by the name of John Boyd or John Alan Boyd or Alan Boyd was born in Dumbarton in 1926 (my search: https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/record-results?search_type=people&dl_cat=statutory&dl_rec=statutory-births&surname=boyd&surname_so=exact&forename=john&forename_so=exact&from_year=1926&to_year=1926&record_type=stat_births).
A few things quite add up for me though. If this is the same John Boyd, why doesn't Hugman list his middle name as he normally does? Also, the Hugman profile suggests that he made 31 appearances for Bristol City in 1950, which would clash with the timing of the Scottish teams that he played for listed on this Wikipedia page. Can't make up my mind as to whether this is the same person. Any help or suggestions from other users would be appreciated! --Jkaharper (talk) 21:01, 4 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The Neil Brown and Sports Reference sources are ancient. They clearly have his DOB confused with the above American-born player. Should we not favour the recently revised Aberdeen FC source, particularly given his longevity with that club? --Jkaharper (talk) 12:11, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fair point but I've just had a look at Scotland's People. There's only one John Allan Boyd there. Died in Ayr in 2019, aged 89. I understand that the site isn't visible to non-users so you can view the image here: https://ibb.co/88p1zg4 Thoughts? --Jkaharper (talk) 19:24, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Click on the image above. The search was just for "Boyd, John". 7 deaths in Scotland in 2019. Only one with the middle name Allan, and the only one with no middle name listed died aged 31. --Jkaharper (talk) 20:22, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Reverted. What on earth are you playing at? You listed it for a technical move then moved it yourself? Entirely inappropriate. It needs a proper WP:RM with full discussion for wider input. 2 people (one of whom is still not 100% convinced) is not "consensus". GiantSnowman16:16, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Twisted my arm" generally means concede. You were the one who wasn't clear. Both myself and User:Canadian Paul thought it was fitting that the page be moved to 1929. It is only yourself who is protesting. The 1929 source is the most up to date one we have (last updated this year), and it comes from a website linked to the team that Boyd spent the most time with. The Neil Brown and Sports Reference sources are very outdated, and in many instances they have been incorrect on other players in the past. The people who run that Aberdeen F.C. site likely received notice from either the club directly or Boyd's family of his passing, and changed his DOB upon discovering that it was incorrect. There are no John Allan (or Alan) Boyds who died in 2019 aged 92. Scotland's People is a complete record of births, deaths and marriages for that respective country. You can be pedantic and dismiss us backing up the Aberdeen F.C. source as "original research" or you can apply common sense and graciously concede that the stronger evidence suggests he was born in 1929 and that the 1926 birth was likely a confusion with the other John Boyd (aka Jackie Boyd) discussed above. You are being unecessarily difficult about this. If the sensible WP:RM to 1929 does not occur now because of you refusing to let go of these inferior sources, I suggest we move the page to John Boyd (footballer, born 1920s) and have the intro say "John Allan (or Alan) Boyd" (1926 or 1929 – 2019 etc etc) but it will look silly and seems to be completely pointless given that the source with elaborated information is more up to date, closer to the subject and is backed up by the official records. Ridiculous behaviour. --Jkaharper (talk) 20:50, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Comment - I am still not 100% convinced, given the 1929 date (only present on one source, the Aberdeen one) has only been verified by original research, and more sources use the 1926 date...if the page is moved then 'John Boyd (footballer, born 1926)' needs to be turned into a redirect to the article on Jackie Boyd (born 1926) rather than redirect to the new 1929 location of this page (if that makes sense?) GiantSnowman16:29, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree re Jackie Boyd. In view of sources, it's more likely that someone going to this title is looking for this John Boyd, so a hatnote at this article is more appropriate and leave the resulting redirect alone. The article on Jackie does call him John but gives only two sources, neither terribly convincing but one has a bet both ways and the other calls him Jackie. So that article needs some fixing too. Andrewa (talk) 19:38, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Somehow I managed to completely miss the title of this article when I changed the source and added new information; sorry about that! In any case, I do want to mention that Olympedia (the source/successor of Sports Reference, depending on how you look at it) will be updating Boyd to a 1929 year of birth, so for what it's worth, that will be one more source with 1929 in a few days. CanadianPaul03:42, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment For easier understanding of the issue, it is better to add the sources in this discussion that show the DOB, either '26 or '29. Nomian (talk) 04:54, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per GiantSnowman. This does highlight a slight problem with using DOB as a disambiguator, where that is not certain, but given three low-quality sources, two of which say 1926 and one 1929, the balance of doubt goes slightly in favour of the 1926. — Amakuru (talk) 12:00, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support per updated sources. None of the sources seem to be of decent quality and it's 2 against 2. But the updated sources from 2020 appear to be more accurate as discussed below. Nomian (talk) 04:27, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
16:15, 5 August 2020 GiantSnowman talk contribs block 94 bytes +94 GiantSnowman moved page John Boyd (footballer, born 1929) to John Boyd (footballer, born 1926) over redirect: RV move, undiscussed
which will be overwritten if this move goes ahead, and which indicates that there was at least one other (the one being reverted). Hopefully this RM will give us stability. Andrewa (talk) 19:25, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There are now two sources that have John Boyd's DOB as 1929: here and here. Both of these were updated within the last few months to reflect the birth and death details collected upon news of his death. The two sources which cite 1926 are very dated and don't elaborate on other biographical information to the extent of the recent ones, thus I would support favouring the two 2020 sources with the amended 1929 birth year. Thanks --Jkaharper (talk) 19:14, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose - the RM has recently closed and there was no issue over whether he was 'John' or 'Alan' or 'Allan'; the issue in dispute was the year of birth. Nominating again so soon after is POINTy. GiantSnowman17:15, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Yes this was as a result of the MR so shouldn't be overturned without discussion. If you think this was incorrect you should discuss with the closer. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:05, 17 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.