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Two users have recently been adding links to the "see also" section, which seem completely irrelevant to this article. The latest in this series is Jews and Judaism in Japan, added by User:Ghostexorcist. Please explain what possible relevance 19th-century-and-later Jewish communities in Japan could have to an article about a pre-18th-century Jewish community in China. Zsero 19:35, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
This article contradicts the Law of Return article which says anyone under Nuremberg Law standards are considered Jewish. Can someone verify? --Gary123 (talk) 17:44, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
father jew + mother goy(im)/nom-jew(ish) = nom-jew(ish) = goy(im)
only mother jew = jewish forever(not goyim/gentile/nom-jew) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.13.252.107 (talk • contribs)
The last paragraph in the "Kaifeng Jews today" section could use some cleaning up. I'm not just talking about the link to another wiki page (I'd do that myself) but rather the contradiction regarding Kaifeng Muslims' relations towards the Kaifeng Jews: an earlier paragraph in that same section claims the opposite. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.161.152.25 (talk • contribs)
(2018) is not addressed - I hope someone will have time to provide a few links to Western and Eastern perspectives. I don't have enough knowledge to know whether this headline has evidence to back it up: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/25/world/asia/china-kaifeng-jews.html Chinese Jews of Ancient Lineage Huddle Under Pressure By CHRIS BUCKLEYSEPT. 24, 2016 MichelleInSanMarcos (talk) 20:19, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
Chinese words are of single syllables, how can 猶,太 be translated into three syllables? it would be seen as vandalism if correctness is constantly reverted.
And Shi Kefa is a revered person in China, I am not any sort of zealous patriot, but shouldn't we be more cautious, before hastily giving him some new nationality, regarding the respect of fact and feelings of some viewers?
In this case, "Stone" in Chinese is Shi, 石 However the Shi of Shi Kefa is another Shi, 史, which literally means "History". judging from the source given in the previous sentence, he is very likely to be irrelevant to Kaifeng Jews. Siderumhk (talk) 07:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
"the community was known by their Han Chinese neighbors as adherents of Tiaojinjiao (挑筋教), meaning, loosely, the religion which removes the sinew (a reference to kashrut)"
As a person growing up fully immersed in a Mandarin speaking environment (Taiwan) for the first 23 years of my life, and continuing on in the next 30 years to interact in Chinese speaking communities as well as reading extensively Chinese language books and watching Chinese news media from both China and Taiwan, I have never encountered the term Tiaojinjiao (挑筋教) more than one or two times, and only in the most obscure and arcane references such as this Wiki entry. Judaism has always been simply referred to as 犹太教 (Judaism derived from the sound of the word). If the above quoted sentence was meant to pertain to how Judaism was called in the 11th or 15th Century, I would have no opinion. But its context, the entire paragraph, clearly talks about the modern reference to Judaism and the Jewish community in Chinese, and this reference to the absurd Tiaojinjiao (挑筋教) is preposterous. Ask any modern day Chinese speaker if he knows what Tiaojinjiao is! If your intention was to refer to the name of Judaism used in 11th Century China, please make it explicit and less confusing.
Ycchao (talk) 02:26, 11 June 2010 (UTC) June 10, 2010
I have removed this section because neither of the quoted sources give reference to where they got the information from. This page states that as far back as the 1980s Kaifeng Jews took DNA tests that confirmed their Semitic origins. But, again, it doesn't provide any source either. Another reason why I removed it is because some of the information was incorrect. It was stated that the Jews believe that their ancestors originally arrived during the 8th century. This is not so. The Jews actually have more than one origin myth that they follow. The 1489 inscription says they arrived in the Song Dynasty (960-1279). The 1512 inscription says the Han (206 BCE-220CE). The Jew Ai Tian told Matteo Ricci in 1605 an anachronistic story of how they had arrived with Tamerlane "800 years ago." However, Tamerlane died before he could attack China in 1405, only 200 years prior. The 1663 inscription says the Zhou Dynasty (1046–256 BC). During the early 1990s, the descendants of the Jews claimed they had fled the Crusaders to China in 1099. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 22:07, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
A recent article that appeared in Hong Kong’s Chinese language paper, Ta Kung Po, makes reference to the municipal authority’s investigation into the legitimacy of the claims. A report compiled in the 1980’s, by authorities in Kaifeng, references the use of DNA testing on ten families, including that of Zhao Pingyu. The results indicated that while these Jews intermarried, “the Jews who were in Kaifeng mainly came from the areas around the two rivers in Iraq. They were also quite close to those Jews in Armenia and the Arab world. A rough estimate was conducted by the authority in Kaifeng...there were 618 such people.” The significance of these tests is that there is now apparently scientific proof to connect these people with their Jewish lineage.
Please add the source for the tattoo on Yue Fei's back. It was first reported in the book by Tiberiu Weisz, "The Kaifeng Stone Inscription"
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"Little of the written works of the Kaifeng Jews have survived." I would like to delete this statement. It is not neutral to characterize the number of words qualitatively. Four or five works is a little or a lot, depending on whether you compare to the number of extant works in Moabite. MichelleInSanMarcos (talk) 02:45, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
I ended up having to piece together information from the review, the article, and the HUC web page to determine that the HUC library in Cincinnati was the Klau; I also had to hunt down that Judeo-Persian means lettering, not a transcription of a Judaeo-Persian spoken dialect (Judeo-Iranian_languages), so is almost certainly what reviewer David Stern reviewer means when he writes "Jewish-Persian hand." MichelleInSanMarcos (talk) 23:44, 27 November 2019 (UTC) MichelleInSanMarcos (talk) 23:49, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
Perhaps the "Kaifeng codex" could include a grouping or at least a reference to these because there is a common attribute related to the occurrence and characterization of diacritic vowels in old Hebrew manuscripts: Leningrad_Codex and Aleppo_Codex. "Gibberish"-- the term used in the article--also turns out to be a term used to describe these two codices: Jordan_Lead_Codices and Voynich_manuscript. MichelleInSanMarcos (talk) 23:47, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
This makes it sound as though Biblical Hebrew is written with vowels. Vowels are optional in written Hebrew. Does this really need a citation? It would be like citing that English writing uses five vowels: a e i o u to represent vowel sounds. What does need citing is that "a literate Hebrew speaker can disregard these markings..." It may be true, but there is likely not a published finding or item that validates it. It would be like saying that a literate speaker of English can read the pledge of allegiance in either lower-case or upper-case letters. Would that need a citation? Perhaps what the article needs is a link to an article about the use of vowels in written Hebrew or at least a description of the structure of the Hebrew alphabet and writing system. MichelleInSanMarcos (talk) 04:54, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
The codex is notable in that, while it ostensibly contains vowels, it was clearly copied by someone who did not understand them. While the symbols are accurate portrayals of Hebrew vowels, they appear to be placed randomly, thereby rendering the voweled text as gibberish. [...] the consonants are written correctly, with few scribal errors.[citation needed]
The photo has a logo, but the material in it is not copyrighted. Can it be included? Perhaps a link to it could be included, but where? This looks like the book of names. https://web.archive.org/web/20100528065115/http://www.huc.edu/libraries/exhibits/rbr/images/yt00042t.jpg MichelleInSanMarcos (talk) 13:22, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
The line says that modern Jews are "identifiable today" by the Ming Dynasty emperor-given surnames, but this seems faulty. These are all extremely common Chinese surnames, and the way this is framed makes it sound as if people who have those surnames today in China are likely Jewish, which is obviously untrue. I think the goal is to say that these names are still held by modern Kaifeng Jews, but this is not clear. The quote comes from the original citation given in 2009[1], but this information is not included in the more academic current citation. Maybe this sentence could be removed / rephrased? InstantRamenNoodle (talk) 02:42, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
Similarly, in the documentary Quest for the Lost Tribes, by the Canadian filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici, the film crew visits the home of an elderly Kaifeng Jew who describes the recent history of the Kaifeng Jews, shows some old photographs, and shows his identity papers which state that he is a member of the Jewish ethnic group.[citation needed]
I've used a dozen different combinations over three hours doing a google search for an RS indeed any source that might corroborate this. The film itself is hardly mentioned anywhere. Rather than keep this up indefinitely with a tag, I'm putting it here. If someone can find an RS then it can be re-added. Nishidani (talk) 20:30, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
I have erelocated here for the moment the following passage, which is clearly taken from Tiberiu Weisz's book which is not RS, unfortunately.
Two of the stelae refer to a famous tattoo written on the back of Song Dynasty General Yue Fei. The tattoo, which reads "boundless loyalty to the country" (simplified Chinese: 尽忠报国; traditional Chinese: 盡忠報國; pinyin: jìn zhōng bào guó), first appeared in a section of the 1489 stele talking about the Jews' "boundless loyalty to the country and Prince". The second appeared in a section of the 1512 stele talking about how Jewish soldiers and officers in the Chinese armies were "boundlessly loyal to the country." [citation needed]
Yue Fei defended Kaifeng in 1127, and therefore would be relevant if some secopndary source discussed this in connection with the terms in the stele which use the same characters he had tattoed on him. But so far I can't find one. Nishidani (talk) 16:09, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
(Scholars specializing in the study of the history and subculture of Judaism in premodern China (Sino-Judaica) have noted )surprising similarities between this work and the liturgy of the Kaifeng Jews, (descendants of Persian Jewish merchants who settled in the Middle Kingdom during the early Song dynasty.)[1]
So it is seriously flawed in several respects. Try to state what you wante added here. Nishidani (talk) 20:54, 2 February 2023 (UTC) (2) Likewise adding an extended passage on Maimonides when we know nothing of a connection between his works and the Kaifeng Jews amounts to just adding speculative 'stuffing'Nishidani (talk) 21:09, 2 February 2023 (UTC)