This article was nominated for deletion on 27 January 2024. The result of the discussion was keep. |
Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at pageviews.wmcloud.org |
On 9 June 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Noa Argamani. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
She was confirmed to be in israeli navy in the past by local media and her personal social media. that should not be omitted. Star72 (talk) 13:14, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
In the testimony published on January 14th, she told she was injured "in her head and body by shrapnel" due to israeli airstrikes. Source : https://abc7news.com/israel-hamas-hostages-video/14330618/ Jahsensie (talk) 14:30, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lightoil (talk) 04:54, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
Kidnapping of Noa Argamani → Noa Argamani – The article is not primarily about the kidnapping, but about her as a person who was kidnapped. One one of the paragraphs talks about her kidnapping. The rest is the negotiations, her rescue, and information about her background. Its much more of a person article than an event article. TimeEngineer (talk) 07:24, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
The article's current source for this, an Israeli news channel, cites Rami Abdul as its source. But Rami never asserted what the article (or any of the other news articles characterising his tweet in the same way) claims he said.
The actual statement by Rami is that the Al Jamal home was one of seven stormed during the Israeli operation, and that Israeli troops summarily "executed" three members of the family, including Abdullah. Nowhere does he assert that there were hostages in the home, nor does this logically follow from Rami's claims. See the original tweets at https://x.com/RamAbdu/status/1799510802778481117 and https://x.com/RamAbdu/status/1799722023519670685.
One more minor detail: I also note that Rami characterises the Al Jamal home as a "house", not a flat or apartment. But at https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-frees-4-hostages-after-8-months-captivity-in-daring-daytime-raid-in-central-gaza/ the Times of Israel, presumably reporting based on what they were told by Israeli sources, state that the hostages were found in homes in two multi-storey buildings. There is thus a contradiction between the Times's reporting and other outlets' supposition that the Al Jamal *house* mentioned by Rami was one of the ones containing hostages. It's not very strong evidence because either the Times or Rami could be mischaracterising the homes involved. But it is at least mild evidence against the Al Jamal home being one of the two that contained hostages.
(Similarly, Rami claims it was the army who raided the Al Jamal home, but the homes containing hostages were raided by Yamam, *not* by members of the Israeli army. Though, again, this is weak evidence because I doubt Palestinian witnesses would be able to distinguish the two.)
Finally, even if the Al Jamal home *was* one of the two holding hostages, there is absolutely no basis to think it was the one containing Noa, rather than the one containing the other three hostages. This detail has just been manufactured out of no evidence whatsoever.
Unless and until there is some more reliable basis to accuse the Al Jamal family of holding hostages, we shouldn't claim that they were. I'd make the edit myself, but can't because the article is protected; hopefully someone with the power to do so will do it.
ExplodingCabbage (talk) 15:06, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
This article currently says:
> The hostages were initially reported to be in good medical condition, but subsequent reports cited medical professionals' findings that they were malnourished and exhibiting signs of Stockholm syndrome.
Our cite for this is https://www.timesofisrael.com/rescued-hostages-suffering-from-malnutrition-possibly-stockholm-syndrome/, whose title we give as "
But the cited article now has a new title, has a new URL (https://www.timesofisrael.com/rescued-hostages-said-suffering-from-malnutrition-leaning-on-each-other-for-support/), and no longer mentions Stockholm Syndrome, and nor does any version of it in the Wayback Machine. Also, the new version of the article seems to specifically disavow the previous claim (still made in this Wikipedia) article that medical professionals had suggested the hostages might have Stockholm Syndrome, instead saying:
> Noa Argamani, Shlomi Ziv, Almog Meir Jan, and Andrey Kozlov were found to be malnourished during initial medical tests at Sheba Medical Center on Saturday, but the mental influence of their captivity had yet to be established.
(bolding mine).
We should delete all mention of Stockholm Syndrome from the article unless and until there's a source that 1. isn't just repeating what the Times of Israel said and 2. still stands by the claim, which the Times of Israel doesn't. ExplodingCabbage (talk) 14:35, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
Someone should have the decency to change her picture wich is currently a picture of disgrace that promotes Hamas deranged behavior. Put a picture of her from when she was rescued! 46.97.169.192 (talk) 13:49, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
So at the end of the article it is written that she said in an interview with Israel Hayom that two hostage were killed by an Airstrike, but she never said that , in this article of Israel Hayom (https://www.israelhayom.com/2024/06/09/962059/) it is written "I saw the missile entering the house; I was sure I was about to die. I thought that was it – but I survived," she recounted. The young woman said her Hamas captors frequently moved her between safe houses, at times disguising her in traditional Arab dress and allowing her outside briefly to get fresh air. Tragically, Argamani was held alongside Israelis Yossi Sharabi and Itay Svirsky, who were murdered in captivity.” The claim made by the source present in the article (Anadolu Agency) is completely false therefore it should be removed, thanks.
So at the end of the article it is written that she said in an interview with Israel Hayom that two hostage were killed by an Airstrike, but she never said that , in this article of Israel Hayom (https://www.israelhayom.com/2024/06/09/962059/) it is written "I saw the missile entering the house; I was sure I was about to die. I thought that was it – but I survived," she recounted. The young woman said her Hamas captors frequently moved her between safe houses, at times disguising her in traditional Arab dress and allowing her outside briefly to get fresh air. Tragically, Argamani was held alongside Israelis Yossi Sharabi and Itay Svirsky, who were murdered in captivity.” The claim made by the source present in the article (Anadolu Agency) is completely false therefore it should be removed, thanks. 2A00:A040:1A4:8074:B0FE:FD3D:4959:F1A5 (talk) 02:53, 17 June 2024 (UTC)