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Is it possible to bring this article up to "Featured Article" quality by Oct 4, 2007, the 50th anniversary of Sputnik I and the start of the Space Age? TechBear 21:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
It's in the Air and Space Museum? How did America get their mitts on the last surviving piece of Sputnik? That's a story that would be handy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pittsburghmuggle (talk • contribs) 16:34, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Most of this article is nonsense. There was no central "Sputnik programme". After the first two or three satellites, the designations were made up by Western organisations to allow for the identification of unrelated satellites whose names the Soviet Union had not disclosed. The word "sputnik" appeared in a number of other Soviet programmes, but these were unrelated and were due to the fact that the word "sputnik" is Russian for "satellite". This article should be cut back, and possibly moved to Prosteyshiy Sputnik, which was the name of the programme for the first two satellites. --GW… 11:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
The original satellite design for launch during the IGY was Object D. It was complex, heavy, with extensive experiments and telemetry. it was WAY behind schedule when an opportunity arose due to delays in the development of the re-entry vehicle for Sapwood there were missiles being produced which essentially had no immediate test program mission following the successful launch of 8L71 number Mi-8 in August. Korolev begged the commission controlling the development of the 8K71 to let him to modify to launch a 'simple satellite.' The results in little more than a month was the 8K71 PS and the orbiting of PS-1. A successful re-entry vehicle was not tested until spring of 1958.Mark Lincoln (talk) 23:07, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
"Sputnik" number | Correct name | Remarks |
---|---|---|
Sputnik 1 | Prosteyshiy Sputnik 1 | |
Sputnik 1 | Prosteyshiy Sputnik 2 | |
Sputnik 3 | ISZ D-1 #2 | |
Sputnik 4 | Korabl Sputnik 1 | |
Sputnik 5 | Korabl Sputnik 2 | |
Sputnik 6 | Korabl Sputnik 3 | |
Sputnik 7 | Venera 1VA #1 | |
Sputnik 8 | Venera 1 | |
Sputnik 9 | Korabl Sputnik 4 | |
Sputnik 10 | Korabl Sputnik 5 | |
Sputnik 11 | Kosmos 1 | Has also been applied to Vostok 1 |
Sputnik 12 | Kosmos 2 | Has also been applied to Vostok 2 |
Sputnik 13 | Kosmos 3 | |
Sputnik 14 | Kosmos 4 | |
Sputnik 15 | Kosmos 5 | |
Sputnik 16 | Kosmos 6 | |
Sputnik 17 | Kosmos 7 | |
Sputnik 18 | Kosmos 8 | |
Sputnik 19 | Venera 2MV-1 #1 | |
Sputnik 20 | Venera 2MV-1 #2 | |
Sputnik 21 | Venera 2MV-1 #2 | |
Sputnik 22 | Mars 2MV-4 #1 | |
Sputnik 23 | Mars 1 | |
Sputnik 24 | Mars 2MV-3 #1 | |
Sputnik 25 | Luna E-6 #2 |
You must understand just how propaganda and secrecy driven the Soviet Union space and missile programs were. The term 'Sputnik' was used for cover over the Zenit spy satellites, the Vostok manned space program, and various other military programs.
The USA used the term 'Discoverer' as a cover to hide the Corona and other spy satellite programs.
The list given shows this clearly. There WAS NO SPUTNIK PROGRAM. There was just a term which was useful for propaganda and to obfuscate.Mark Lincoln (talk) 23:07, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
I should also add that sometimes Soviet satellites lunar, and planetary probes were simply referred to as 'sputnik (insert next number in sequence) by some western "authorities" when the Soviets openly called them by other names. As the 'real' names and purposes of all space probes of the times have now been revealed by both sides this kind of controversy needs to be resolved by dissolving the the fictions. This can be difficult because common usage has often become 'fact' while the real 'fact' has become lost except to the serious student. For example many 'histories' list the rocket that launched Explorer I as a 'Jupiter-C' when it was a similar Juno-I. The Jupiter missile was nothing like the Jupiter-C, but when it was equipped with the upper stages of a Juno-I, it was deemed a Juno-II.
That this article is termed "Sputnik Program" is laughable, but it is what it is named. The best we can do is try to shape it into what it actually seems to address. The first man-made earth satellites launched by the Soviet Union pursuant to the goal of orbiting a satellite during the IGY. Satellites which had a profound effect upon the world all out of proportion to their actual accomplishments.Mark Lincoln (talk)
I have several books from the time listing the booster as the "T-3." NATO soon gave it the name Sapwood, and designation SS-6. OKB-1 used the sequential R-7, but soon called it Semyorka "old number seven." The GURVO (Main Missile Directorate) used the industrial designation 8K71 (or 8K71PS for the satellite launcher). Later developments were the R-7A, the actual ICBM, which was produced in two versions the 8K74 and 8K710, both of which were also Semyorka!
We had our own confusing system of designations. As with the Soviet's it was largely a matter of bureaucracy and public relations, but lacked the Soviet security fetish. The Army Ballistic Missile Agency had a program called Hermes. One sub-project, Hermes C-1 was developed into a tactical missile designated XSM-G-14, later XSM-A-14, then by it's popular name 'Redstone." Eventually it ended up designated PGM-11 in the great nomenclature revolution under Sec. of D. McNamara. Redstone was modified into Jupiter-C to test sub-scale re-entry vehicles for the "Jupiter" (aka B-76 (after operational use was transfered to the USAF), SM-76, later SM-78, and finally PGM-19 and PGM-19A. 'The times they were a changing'! One had to be an avid worshiper of von Braun's Tomorrow Land shows or have a score card to keep up with the changes.Mark Lincoln (talk) 14:20, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Why is he here?
hopiakuta Please do sign your communiqué .~~Thank You, DonFphrnqTaub Persina. 23:10, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Surely the translation "companion" is a bit naive - I would suggest that the better translation would be the more political "fellow traveller" Maelli (talk) 10:26, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. The public name was a political statement. The OKB-1 name was "PS-1" for "Simple Satellite 1."Mark Lincoln (talk) 17:43, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
It seems that the article engages in a degree of political correctness in attempting to use strict dictionary meanings at the expense of a colloquial meaning which any Soviet Citizen mid-20th century would have inferred given the context of use. As an avid fan of the old TV series "I Led Three Lives" in the 1950s I am aware of the political use of the term 'Fellow Traveller". As a person who has known a few old members of the CPUSA I can say that I have heard them use the term "Fellow Traveller" for someone who was not a party member, but travelled in the same circle concerning political and social issues. I think it would be neither pandering to the right, or misinterpreting the word given usage, to describe Sputnik as a "Felllow Traveller of Earth."Mark Lincoln (talk) 23:14, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Clearly this article is not well documented. i guess some one has to take their books down from the shelves and get to it. I am not a masochist, but I guess that person is myself.
Feedback from others would be appreciated as I try to shape up this article.Mark Lincoln (talk) 17:35, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
I hope this work satisfies those who questioned the need for more inline citations and references.Mark Lincoln (talk) 21:51, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
One problem I see with the article is the spurious reference to 'sputnik 40 and 41." The other is the degree of influence upon people at the times given in the "impact" section. One quaint relic in my library is is a book "Spacepower what it means to you." Published in 1958 is is typically void of fact and speculative as were most publications for the public at the time. It has a chapter "Sputnik's Impact on the free world." It is essentially 'source' material for that subject being written less than a year after the event. It lists 7 separate subjects and discusses the "Impact of Sputnik" upon leadership, strategy and tactics, missile production, applied research, basic science research, education, and democratic culture.
This could be used to slightly elaborate the 'impact' section. If there is a problem with length it might be prudent to slightly abbreviate the list of US Satellites mentioned as reducing anxiety. (Mom was far more impressed by SCORE than I, though I was and am a big fan of Ike).
Input please folks, I don't want to make any changes that will provoke a flame war.Mark Lincoln (talk) 13:36, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
There never was a 'Sputnik Program." The cultural event and device commonly called 'Sputnik" was not the product of any coherent program.
Sputnik was a term used by the Soviet Government as a name for it's first and some subsequent satellites.
The section on 'Sputnik 40 and 41" involves devices with absolutely NO connection to the Sputniks of 1957-58 aside from an attempt to grasp at some faded glory.
I recommend the article be pruned of utterly unrelated material and be renamed for the object, both technical and cultural that is evoked by the name 'Sputnik."Mark Lincoln (talk) 21:21, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Might this article be better named and described by something like "Sputnik - Soviet IGY Satellites and Their Consequences"? Wow, is that awkward! At least it has a smidgeon of truth whilst the idea there was a "Sputnik Program" is without any historic support.
This article is a conflation of technical facts about a few early satellites, the political circumstances and consequences as well as the social and historic effects of those satellites.
To anyone who lived at the time the conflation is most rational.
To historians of the technology or times the conflation is necessary for context.
For Korolev the IGY was an excuse to pursue space flight. For the USA it was an excuse to establish the legal right of free transit above the sensible atmosphere. For both it could be justified on grounds of scientific research.
That both Korolev and von Braun were eager to develop military hardware that could be used to fulfill their dreams is ironic. That the United States decided to build a (theoretically) all "civilian" launch vehicle to establish a legal precedent while avoiding any interference or delay of ongoing military missile programs is also ironic.
That Korolev developed the most important space launch vehicle in history under the guise of the worst ICBM ever developed is another irony. That von Braun and the ABMA were launching space probes in a desperate attempt to survive Pentagon infighting over which service would deploy the long range guided missile gets drowned out in the still lingering resentments of who lost the claim of the "first Earth satellite" for the United States.
That the most efficient of the satellite launch vehicles used for IGY satellites was the 'despised' Vanguard is also an irony as it achieved exactly what it was intended to do.
The Juno is long gone, having passed while another Redstone variant, Redstone Mercury, went on to lob the first American into space a few weeks after a development of the R-7 put the first Soviet into orbit.
Vanguard lives on in a vastly mutated and developed form as unrecognizable and unrecognized as Delta.
Semyorka labors on in it's own greatly improved variant launching Soyuz and Progress missions. Today the old workhorse, the developed version of the 14A14, son of 11A511, son of 8K87, son of 8K71PS, "Old Number Seven," remains in harness, the only means either Russia or the United States have of reaching the International Space Station.
Meanwhile the passions, the shock, fear and pride which swept the world despite the initial modest responses of Dwight and Nikita have passed into history as they have.
What to do with the awkwardly named "Sputnik Program" article?
I have attempted to resolve the need for citations, and make a few additions and alterations that seemed necessary. I think that doing any radical surgery without input would be not only rash, but perhaps feckless.
Input pleaseMark Lincoln (talk) 00:27, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
There wasn't even a Prosteyshiy Sputink program. The two "PS" launches were ad hoc and utterly opportunistic. The delays in both the re-entry vehicle and the Object D scientific satellite created the chance which Korolev seized to launch the space age. p.s. one thing that caused both confusion and mirth in OKB-1 in the late summer of 1957 was the pun mixing the initials of Prosteyshiy Sputnik and Sergei Pavlovich. The initials in each case having only slightly different pronunciation.Mark Lincoln (talk) 13:48, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
No consensus. With the changes made, it is possible that a renomination to a different name could be called for. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:28, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
Sputnik program → Sputnik – Current title is misleading as it implies the subject was a clearly structured and defined programme, rather than a series of loosely related missions, as demonstrated in previous discussion. Sputnik, which currently redirects here, would be a more appropriate title since it is free of those implications. --GW… 14:19, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Sputnik was a name given the Soviet Government for the PS-1. PS-2 and Object D Earth Satellites. Thereafter it became a generic term applied to satellites of Soviet origin. Even when the Soviet Union gave other names to other satellites, planetary probes and solar orbital vehicles many in the west continued to give them the 'sputnik' name followed by a sequential number.
No one working on the PS-1, PS-2, or Object D satellites thought of them as part of a program as far as I have been able to find out.
"Sputnik" was a generic term, and became a term which describes not only the object, but the world's response to it's launch. I cannot recall anyone in 1957 talking of a 'Sputnik Program.' Indeed I cannot recall ever seeing the term until opening this article.Mark Lincoln (talk) 15:48, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
For two generations in the world "Sputnik" meant more than just an object. It was an event. Perhaps the whole problem with the name is "Program." There was no 'program.' There was, however, and immensely influential event and resultant response. Most of the people in the world were not "Space Cadets" as people who were eager to see exploration of space were called in the 1950s. Space exploration was seen as 'science fiction' at best, insane at worst.
Suddenly the world woke to the advent of the "Space Age." The effects were global and for both the USA and USSR, formative. Sputnik reformed the Cold War and was the impetus for the 'Space Race" which landed man on the Moon.
Sputnik 1 was an object, device. "Sputnik" was far, far more and it took the USA 12 years to overcome the feelings of shock and fears of inferiority it induced.
The second word is the problem. Perhaps the article should be shaped and named towards the "Sputnik Revolution,' or "Sputnik Era"?70.241.19.66 (talk) 14:05, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I just checked it. There is more information here and it is better documented. Perhaps it would be best to give this page the name "Sputnik Crisis", move some details and citations to the Sputnik I, II and III pages then merge what additional material which might improve this article from the 'old' Sputnik Crisis page?Mark Lincoln (talk) 16:50, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
What do you mean by 'American Perspective'? Do you mean where the name for the booster is given as T-3, M-104, or SS-6 and people pronounce the the word "spuht-nik"?
When I was righting my historiography thesis I had to treat three major weapons development systems, German, British, and American as well as a few minor efforts, and do so with a neutral bias or my professor would have lowered my grade.
When Sputnik went up in October 1957 the world awoke to a series of dramatic changes which affected the course of history.
Ironically the first day neither of the governments of the two super-powers were much concerned.
The rest of the world, including their respective citizens, were.
In the USA there was an orgy of soul-searching, introspection and blame. Soviet citizens were enthralled, elated, and celebrated that there was finally proof the entire world could see, and not ignore, that their society could beat the USA. Europe, both east and west, responded similarly to the super-powers.
For the next decade the US and CCCP engaged in a missile race which made it possible to annihilate each other without any hope of defense. The opening moves of this arms race began with what seemed to many world-wide as a great Soviet lead. It was, however, a great American lead as the 8K74 (R-7A, SS-6) was a lousy weapon while the Atlas and Titans were quickly fielded in large numbers. America also armed allies with Jupiter and Thor missiles. The results was a desperate attempt by the CCCP to balance reality ended up known as the "Cuban Missile Crisis." That Missile Crisis had it's roots in the expanded efforts of the US to address the 'missile gap' which was nothing but twaddle based upon the reaction to Sputnik.
In August 1957 it was only 'space cadets' (to use the derisive term of the times for people who thought space flight possible) noticed when the evening news carried a story about the Soviets firing the first ICBM into the pacific. It was a brief story towards the end of the broadcast. The response was world wide in October. The "Space Age" was on, as was the "Space Race," and it didn't end until July 1969.
The response to Sputnik was a world-wide phenomena which changed history immensely. Is that not a subject worthy of a Wikipedia page?Mark Lincoln (talk) 22:56, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
To those who lived then, or are familiar with source material, the word 'Sputnik' relates to both the object and the response.Mark Lincoln (talk) 23:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
So by way of resolving this, is anyone in favour of keeping this article in (kind of) its present form, which implies that these three missions called "Sputnik" were part of a single program, or if not a "program" as such, then something else (what?) that deserves its own WP article? If not (i.e. if these missions are connected by not much more than sharing the same name), then it seems to me we should create a disambiguation page for "Sputnik", and then argue separately about whether Sputnik 1 is the primary topic for "Sputnik". (In fact, if it is, then we might not even need the dab page; we could just have a "Sputnik redirects here..." hatnote at Sputnik 1.)--Kotniski (talk) 10:14, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
No response, so I've made Sputnik redirect to Sputnik 1 as everyone seems to think it should, and rewritten the dab page accordingly. That leaves the question of what to do with this page; obviously it's not going to be moved to Sputnik as originally proposed, but how about moving it to something like Sputnik missions (so as not to imply that there was a "program" involved)?--Kotniski (talk) 17:35, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
Is this page still just 'Start Class'? If not, what need be addressed?70.241.19.66 (talk) 14:07, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I guess we sweat hogs will just have to await dictum ex cathedra. May we petition the Gods with prayer?Mark Lincoln (talk) 16:59, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
The current lead image is an artists depiction of Sputnik in orbit. Now, maybe it's just personal preference, but as we have an available picture of replica hardware (currently in the Early Flights section), I think we should be using that. The current image strikes me as just too stylized for an encyclopedia article. 107.10.43.91 (talk) 20:39, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
It's unbelievable that some editors start to guess idiotic alternative names for foreign words. Sputnik means satellite, nothing more than that. The problem is that who wrote these (I can say the word) do not know what the word satellite means, and associates the name exclusively to astronomy. Satellite means: Person who, entirely devoted to others, is with him at all times and he became an accomplice in the commission of good or evil deeds. Or in other words, a companion. So in English or in Russian Satellite, means exactly the same. If is something related with human nature means companion if is related with astronomy, means "satellite", and not a companion, like someone is trying to invent in the article. Zorglub-PRV (talk) 13:44, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
I could dig up my old Russian-English dictionary and look up 'Satellite' and get 'Sputnik." That might indicate a 'fellow traveler of Earth, a 'fellow traveler of the party,' or any orbiting anything else.Mark Lincoln (talk) 17:16, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
(was: "Waiting for Godot or My Life as an Anxious Editor")
Any word on the fate of this article? Should we plunge into lifeboat mode and try to save what we might for some other use?Mark Lincoln (talk) 17:16, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
So, what about this page? Merge the information into the other articles, and create just a list of Sputnik missions (or maybe List of space missions named Sputnik)?--Kotniski (talk) 11:08, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Sputnik. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 October 7#Sputnik until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:41, 7 October 2021 (UTC)