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I started this page in April 16th 2012. --Jaakko Häkkinen (talk) 16:25, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Regrettably, your own references seem to be cancelled and no longer accessable always in a few months. This is of little help. Please try to refer to STABLE addresses!! (The same refers to your e-mail addresses, of which two different ones have been returned to me). HJJHolm (talk) 13:58, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
I've seen many articles online that have mentioned Proto-Uralic being associated with the spread of the Pit–Comb Ware culture, or as spreading from a culture within the Comb Ceramic cultural complex. Based off genetic and linguistic evidence, a hypothesis like this is supported with a reasonable amount of evidence. It would also account for words of Uralic origin in the Baltic languages and in certain Russian place names and dialects.
Should it be mentioned more enthusiastically as a homeland hypothesis? I want to hear someone's input on this...--Lisztrachmaninovfan (talk) 07:42, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Lot is written about genetics, but non of the sources doesn't seem to link it to Uralic homeland. Original research? --Minnekon (talk) 20:49, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
I agree, it is original research, and today (stand 2022 June) it is even worse. I am going to remove inconsistencies and unrelated information about haplogroups.Jäkke34 (talk) 08:13, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
I have just read the article and cited references and found that much of the written content does not correspond to the given references. Especially concerning is the content forgery at genetic evidence, which links various haplogroups and possibly places of origin to the homeland and spread of Uralic languages. Multiple sources are used to build up an paragraph unrelated to the topic and not concerned with the Uralic homeland at all. This is forgery and synthesis, without being related to the topic of the article.
Than, recently a user included two paragraphs[[1]] about affinity to Tungusic, Turkic and other Siberian languages, as well as a paragraph about Nganasan genetics and how this putative Nganasan ancestry is the source of Uralic languages and found in all Uralic-speaking populations. However nothing of these claims are supported by the references. They do not even speak about proto-Uralic or its homeland at all.
Another paragraph, in which it is claimed that Uralic originated in the Altai-Sayan region, does not correspond with the reference either. It is a very good paper and relevant for the article, but it must be cited correctly. Here:[[2]]. The authors concluded that the region of Western Siberia (West Siberian hunter gatherers) can be associated with proto-Uralic homeland, with Uralic languages expanding west and eastwards respectively. Uralic may either be a distant sister language to Indo-European, or stood in considerable contact. In both cases, "Common Uralic" (not identical with the earlier Proto-Uralic), stood in additional areal contact with Indo-Iranian.
Therefore I suggest to overwork the article according to the references, and remove the content forgery in the genetic section.Jäkke34 (talk) 08:11, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
Naturally, we have to thank the authors for the many good informations in this article. However, a 2007 paper of ONE scientist, here Jaako Häkkinen [the author here under varying sockets?], does never justify the following, "... because the Ugric languages are known to have been spoken earlier on the European side of the Urals, ...". NOTHING "is known", but rather speculated.
Incidentally, the aDNA under the designation "N" is computed to have split from its parents in China around 27,000 BC, from where a sub-branch migrated westwards and reached the Baikal region around 16,000 BC, where it split further. From there, expansions took place in two waves northwestwards. First at the beginning of the Holocene with N1a2b (B523) to the middle Don, then with the second "Atlantic" warming (Holm 2011, phase three) as N1a1a1a (CTS3103) and its descendants very rapidly into the Ob and north-eastern Europan region. (To be found in Rob Spencer's http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html - good aDNA knowledge assumed). Whether these people actually brought the Uralic languages with them or only contributed to them cannot be proven with certainty. But I would like to assume so. BTW, this knowledge is missing in the brandnew, otherwise very informative Grünthal (2022) paperHJJHolm (talk) 06:38, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
A new thorough article, freely available in English, can be found in: [3]https://journal.fi/fuf/article/view/120910 There the Uralic homeland is located in the Central Ural Region. Jaakko Häkkinen (talk) 06:29, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
In the third paragraph of the Homeland hypotheses section it mentions two trees, Abies sibirica and Pinus cembra, the latter of which is native to the alps and carpathian mountains. There is already a clarification tag on it, but I still looked at the source (Paragraph 6 of page 27) [4]https://www.sgr.fi/susa/92/hakkinen.pdf and found that in udmurt it translates to juniper (Where did that come from????). I've done all this with google translate and it spits out:
In all languages except Udmurt, the word "juniper" means "senbra pine (Pinus cembra)". This transition is understandable because in the Udmurt language the Udmurt language does not belong to the area where juniper occurs: juniper is found only in Europe. In Europe, only on a narrow strip between the upper reaches of the Kama River and the Ural Mountains. and the semi-birch pine spread here from the east (Hajdú 1975: 39).
The article says that these trees are evidence of a siberian homeland, but I don't see how that is possible. I need somebody who speaks finnish to translate this for me:
Sanan merkitys on kaikissa kielissä ’sembramänty (Pinus cembra)’ lukuun ottamatta udmurttia, jossa se on ’kataja’. Tämä siirtymä on ymmärrettävä, koska udmurttia ei puhuta sembramännyn levinneisyysalueella: sembramännyn levinneisyys ulottuu Euroopan puolelle vain kapean kaistaleen verran Kaman yläjuoksun ja Uralvuoriston välillä, ja tänne sembramänty on levinnyt idän suunnasta (Hajdú 1975: 39)
And if they cant make any sense of it, a=I think we should just delete this paragraph or something. please help :( Neonrareplasma (talk) 16:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
In all languages the word means Pinus cembra, except in Udmurt, where it means 'juniper'. This transition is understandable because the Udmurt language is not spoken in the area where pinus cembra occurs: In Europe, pinus cembra is only found on a narrow strip between the upper reaches of the Kama River and the Ural Mountains, and it spread there from the east.Most likely, by Pinus cembra he actually means Pinus sibirica which is sometimes considered as a subspecies of Pinus cembra and grows at the Ural mountains. (For a confirmation and more recent discussion, see https://doi.org/10.1146/annurev-linguistics-011619-030405 p. 358) P.S. Please correct the title. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 16:51, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
The outlay of this article needs significant re-work as it is currently disjumlbed. I propose launching directly into the current evidence (without pretentious title of "modern evidence") with a conclusion based on the wweight of evidence rather than one scholar pushing his (problematic) tenet Slovenski Volk (talk) Slovenski Volk (talk) 02:53, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
There was a misunderstanding concerning my recent article, stemming from 14th November 2023, which I now corrected. - Earlier: ”On this basis the early phase of the Seima-Turbino Network in Southwestern Siberia could not yet be associated to the Uralic languages, but may instead be linked to a distant Pre-Proto-Uralic stage.” - Corrected: ”On this basis the early phase of the Seima-Turbino Network in Southwestern Siberia could not yet be associated to the Uralic languages, but perhaps the later stages in Europe could. In any case, according to him, the arrival of the Uralic language in the Central Ural Region would precede even the early stage of the Seima-Turbino Network.” The Seima-Turbino Network initiated in Southwestern Siberia ca. 2200 BCE, but according to the article, Late Proto-Uralic was in the Central Ural Region already in 2500 BCE. Therefore, according to this view, it is impossible that Pre-Proto-Uralic could be associated with the STN. Jaakko Häkkinen (talk) 03:48, 1 March 2024 (UTC)