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I have trouble believing that the "Sindbad" spelling is truly more appropriate than the "Sinbad" spelling... Google would seem to agree. Thoughts? --Dante Alighieri | [[User talk:Dante Alighieri|Talk]] 22:42, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
from Arabicسندباد Sin-di-bad, Can anyone confirm that the Arabic really is Sin-di-bad? The way it's written here (and yes, I do read Arabic) it just says "Sndbad" - not even an "i".
I'm even more curious about what the Persian might be, since Sinbad is originally a Persian tale.
PiCo 09:12, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
I mean, really, since Sinbad is actually Chinese, does it matter how his named is spelled in Persian or Arabic? I'm dying for someone to spell his name in Chinese. I think this entire article should be written in Chinese characters. That would really make it so much more wiki-ed up.JGC1010 (talk) 22:11, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Sinbad's name can also be spelled Sindibad
In the very first sentence we have a transliteration of the Arabic name - a similar addition for the Persian name would be good - any Persian speaking editor like to insert it?
Recent changes to the introduction suggest a different derivation to the name "Sinbad" - editing over the existing one. While this is not necessarilly incorrect - the source note for the existing derivation was left untouched - giving the new derivation the appearance of a sourced citation, which of course it was not - and leaving the "hinting at a Persian origin" (nonsense if the new devivation were accepted) untouched. I suspect that what we really need is a mention of several different speculative derivations (all CITED - with their own references!) and the conclusion that the true derivation is unclear, or at least contested. Or leave the different deivations alone, except to note where they can be found - with the introduction simply stating that the derivation is contested.
In the meantime, until something scholarly on these lines is suggested, I have simply reverted to an earlier version of the introduction, which at least makes sense and is internally consistent. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 18:52, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I deleted this recent addition:
The birth place of Sindbad is considered by many as Sohar in North Batinha region of Sultanate of Oman.
Aktoy's story of the Shipwrecked Sailor is thought to be the inspiration for the classical story of Sinbad the Sailor. His other works includeThe Prophecy of Neferty, the Instruction of Amenemhet, and Sinuhe's tale.
Reasons are:
First, it sounds pretty odd to ascribe a birthplace to ma fictional character - he wasn't real, how could he have a birthplace? But if you give a reference (where did you find this idea?) it can be considered.
Second, the Aktoy theory seems extremely weak - there's no such thing as "the story of Sinbad the Sailor" - it's a collection of stories, not one. It's not even seven stories, as each 'voyage' contains more than one story. Moreover, the link between a 12th dynasty Egyptian tale (when was that - pre-100BC surely?) and a collection of tales that apparently took their present form only in the last few hundred years, is tenuous to say the least. But if you can give a precis of this Aktoy story, and a reference (i.e., the book where you read this point), it could be made into a useful addition (maybe).
Don't be disheartened, I'm not trying to prevent you joining the editing effort, just trying to keep it scholarly. PiCo 12:05, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Historically, even if Sindbad were a real person, and even if he was born in a part of Iraq at the time part of the Persian Empire - this would NOT make the story necessarily Persian. In fact several of the tales in the cycle (Sindbad is really a cycle of tales in itself) clearly derive from Homer's Odyssey - and others are supposed to be from very ancient Egyptian sources. Actually Sindbad is fictional, and without a nationality or a "birthplace". The setting of the stories are principally imaginary or legendary countries.
The so-called "Arabian Nights" cannot be sheeted home (nautical expression appropriate in context) to any one nationality. In fact the "western" version of the collection has "added" stories (for instance Aladdin), and this seems to have been only the latest in a long line of assorted additions. The whole thing very obviously was not written down all at once, but grew like topsy over several centuries, and apart from the bulk of the tales at least being clearly of middle eastern origin any attempt to chauvinistically claim one or all of the tales for a particular country are very clearly POV OR (and a lot of other things).
I have also excised a fair bit of other rubbish from this article - will give it a proper going over later perhaps. Soundofmusicals 13:12, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Please look at this link Indus River for understanding were the name of sand bad was coming!!!! and at the next step go on this site to understand who has written the stories!!!! List of characters within One Thousand and One Nights I DONT THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT the writer is Persian!The name Shehrzade is a Persian name... and at the end why do you write some stories about the Island SindBad in Arvand-Rud ???? There is NO RIVER with this name!!!!!!! Please stop lying about this matter..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sina-aria (talk • contribs) 01:26, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't see why the source was removed [[1]]. [[2]]. Have a place where the etymology is given, but I note that Sandbad/Sinbad the Magian [[3]] predates the compilation of the stories in Arabic and a Magian would hardly have an Arabic name. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 17:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Pakistan was part of the Persian empire, which could explain why many think that Sindbad was Persian, Sind refers to the river Sind that runs through the middle of Pakistan but which at the time of the Arab trade routes, previously was considered part of Persia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.1.2.2 (talk) 17:43, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Material added by user Sina-aria has been removed due to the inclusion of POV comments, grammatical errors, and some comments which, while they may or may not be correct, are besides the point of the article. However, it is my opinion that some of the material may be of use if someone familiar with the topic can extract the good from the less good. Here is the text (highlighted) that he or she has added and re-added. Please have a look. Matt Deres (talk) 14:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
A Personal attack over Introductory Paragraphs has been moved to discussion page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Babakexorramdin#Moved_this_to_more_appropriate_place
(Who was abusing who etc. is irrelevant to the main aim of getting the article to be as "good" as we can - so please keep it all where it is (or, better, delete it!!)
I note that currently (11 Feb.'09), one of the opening paragraphs uses a word "nomic". This is a word I've never heard before in many educated years living in England, UK. I've looked it up elsewhere, and am not much wiser. I wonder whether the contributor did actually mean to use the spelling "nomic"? Maybe 'nomadic' may fit better? If not, it may help if the contributor could edit the sentence, to either use a different word, or include a meaning for the word, as such a word is (almost?!) never used. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trafford09 (talk • contribs) 12:37, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Please read the "new" introduction before reverting to the very unclear, muddled mess it had become.
The new version does NOT
The rational of the "new" introduction is (paragraph by paragraph):
Para one - describes what the story cycle is - gives BOTH Persian and Arabic names - includes information that may indicate a Persian origin (the reference about "Sinbad" being a Persian word) and the rationale for it usually being considered of Arab origin (setting and apparent nationality of hero). I suspect that a dogmatic insistence on either would be unscholarly POV - puting a short case for both - together in the same paragraph - is at least neutral. Remember that this is (like the 1001 Nights) a collection of folk tales - some of them re-tellings of VERY ancient works of Greek and Sanskit origin - and not a "literary composition" in the modern sense. It doesn't have a single "author" as such - how and when the stories were originally compiled, and how frequently since they have been revised is very simply unknown. In this context an insistence on pursuing the Arab/Persian argument indefinitely is (with due respect) rather silly.
Para two - simply summarises very briefly the setting and origins of the stories without muddling this up with contradictory statements based on the Persian/Arabic controversy.
Para three - Discusses the link between Sindbad and the 1001 nights - pointing out that this link is NOT of ancient origin, but very probably the work of Burton.
Para four is that bit about "Sinbad's Island" although personally this I feel this borders on irrelevant trivia. Soundofmusicals (talk) 04:37, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
I disagree that the introduction to the article should have more than a cursory mention of the origin of the character, much less the debate on its origin that it currently contains. To English speakers - the target audience of English Wikipedia - Sinbad is foremost a fictional character. He goes sailing and has fantastic adventures. The way the introduction was prior to my changing it gave the impression that Sinbad is of primary interest as a scholar's exercise in tracing the history of various transliteration techniques or finding the real-life bases inspiring this fantasy writing. Sinbad is first a fictional character in stories; whatever else is said comes second. Bluerasberry (talk) 17:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Is Sinbad from Basra or Basrah? —Akrabbimtalk 13:14, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
he was a native sindhi, from the sindh province of southern Pakistan that settled in basra — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.1.2.2 (talk) 17:45, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Sindbad and 1001 night stories have Indo-Iranian origin ,after Islamic conquest , all these Iranic and Pakistani folklore were translated into arabic. even the name of the " Basrah" has persian origin like " Baghdad" and "Anbar". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.166.197.66 (talk) 20:48, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
This section has been pulled back into a rational arrangement - basically:
Para 1. Case for Persian origin. Para 2. Case for Arab(ic) origin. Para 3. Description of sources etc. that are both/neither!
in total - this section is an attempt to present something fairly controversial in a nice, balanced, NPOV way. any rearrangement needs to bear this in mind. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 21:26, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
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Sindbad was not arab or iraqi or persian, he was from sind which is today province of Pakistan even his name SIND BAD, its story name, the meaning, the wind from sind ( the story from sindh ) this story was brought to oman by omani sea traders and was first translate in arabic, second it was brought by people of iraq who lived many years in sind , Sindh was long time captured by MOHAMMED BIN QASIM and it was part of Khalifat of Haroon Rashid.
I support above declaration with "Where was Sindbad from?? from the name it clearly implies (Sindh) which is in Pakistan now and Sindhi sailors (Bawarih) were famous during that time, however he might have also been iranian or even arab, because persians and arabs both conqured sindh", the name sinbad comes from the Indus river in Sindh, he was a Sindhi fisherman and "Sindbad" means "Lord of Sind" .Sind was in Abbasid Kingdom in 8th century, which is now Sind province of Pakistan. story was set during the rule of the Abbassid Empire in 8th century, and on that time Persia and Sind were both in Arab Empire. Sind is actually mentioned in the story of the Third Voyage: ("And thence we fared on to the land of Sind, where also we bought and sold").and this story is also mentioned in Arabic ( specially in Arabian Nights) and Indian (Panchatantra) literature as well as in Persian literature. in Arabic, word "Daal" is clearly mentioned and Persian pronunciation is always wrong, they already pronounce "Sind" to "Hind". Another important thing is that Sindhi people are not living only in Sind they had long times ago traveled , did business with world over and they settled around the world see Sindhi diaspora they are living in Arab Area from hundreds of years. like wife of Imam Hussain (R.A) Shahar was also a Sindi. Dr Abdullah Mohammad Sindi is a Professor and Writer of Saudi Arabia. Dr Hayat Sindi is a scientist in Saudi Arabia. and Sindi native of UAE are in thousands. they also belong to Sindi families who were migrated from Sind to other countries, in Ancient times.Jogi 007 (talk) 14:37, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
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I deleted five illustrations that were added in the last year or so. They gave the article a nice look, but no connections to the article were established. In the case of the "Howdah on the Elephants of Serendip", it appears the caption was simply made up--falsified. The dhow and xebec looked appropriate, but there is nothing in the article that mentions those types of vessels, and it looked like original--and dubious--research. No rhinoceros is mentioned in the article, so that had to go, despite its pleasant quaintness that seemed to fit the exotic story. Same with the dolphin, although I would add that it, like the elephants, had an essentially made-up caption.
It is worth noting that all these illustrations were added by anonymous edits, and none of the IP addresses were connected with extensive other edits.
So, apologies for taking away the pictures, but I suspect you will agree it was the right thing to do. Taquito1 (talk) 02:52, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
Taquito1 (talk) 16:56, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
I have deleted, for now, the apparently good faith and possibly very interesting edit:
"The tale of Sindbad can be traced to the Brihatkathalokasamgraha by Budhasvamin, to the tale of the voyages of Sanudasa the merchant."
We need, not only a source, but a few more details about the (possible?) link between Sanudasa and Sindbad before this can be settled into the article. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 02:37, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
This section has been "rationalised" - basically by removing everything about possible "Persian" origins, on the grounds that the references given did not check out. I have assumed good faith here (specifically that the editor concerned has actually looked at the original sources behind the references before rejecting them!) - but the stump of what was left no longer made sense - so I have copy edited the section a bit. It remains incomplete - if someone can find a (legitimately) referenced statement about the original Arabic manuscripts or editions this would round out the section. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 06:40, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Guesses about derivation of the word need to be stated with due reserve - if only because of nationalist conclusions that have been drawn from one or the other... --Soundofmusicals (talk) 11:12, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
I removed a link to List of literary cycles appearing to be a link to story-cycle, as it serves no purpose at that specific place, for it does not provide any information on what is a story-cycle as a reader accustomed to the links system would expect. It would be fine if the phrasing was something like large collection of story-cycles or one of the best-known story-cycles, etc.. Then the reader would know to expect some form of compendium/ collection/ list/ etc. I have moved it to the See also section. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 09:06, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
Dear Colleagues. The section above refers. Editor Soundofmusicals insists on linking a refereence to story cycle to a page listing examples of story cycles, rather then linking it to a page about story cycles. It is simply absurd to link a term to a list when an article about that term already exists. I have a left note on his talkpage, please weigh in if you feel inclined, otherwise, please leave your views here. Regards, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 09:52, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
The article on the Talmudic Rabbi Rabbah bar bar Hana mentions his Aggada as a possible source of the First Voyage of Sindbad. Shouldn't that be mentioned here, too? ShemtovKML (talk) 01:37, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
I wondered if there could be any basis for this story in the voyages of Zheng He. Mainly because he also made 7 voyages in the Indian Ocean, just before the "Sinbad" story seems to have arisen. Location he sailed from is different of course, but perhaps Zheng He's voyages were widely known at the time and inspired the story? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.171.184.241 (talk) 05:50, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
We do not have the name "Sinbad" in Arabic, this is a Persian name. If you do not believe, ask an Arab what "Sinbad" means. مصطفی کوهستانی (talk) 13:55, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
In the Adaptations/Theatrical films section of this article, why is there no mention of the 1919 "Sinbad the Sailor" silent film short? Isn't it significant when it is the very first depiction of the Sinbad tales in film? Linus Blankette (talk) 00:23, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Alexa 2405:205:1588:E4F8:7BD2:CB0F:EFC8:6401 (talk) 16:31, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
I
Was here teacher alfred 197.232.117.43 (talk) 07:06, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
The article says in the first sentence that Sinbad is a "fictional mariner" implying that he's not a real person and that these stories are fiction. I'm just wondering whether this is definitive, or is there any possibility that this might be legend or folklore rather than fiction? I have never read the stories myself, but the impression I get is that they are comparable to the Odyssey which is not considered fiction. 2601:49:8400:26B:E8B3:4692:15C0:33CC (talk) 18:58, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
https://www.bl.uk/BLVU1:LSCOP-ALL:BLL01017160296 .. Link is orphaned. The page no longer exists. No wayback machine backup exists either. Please check. 117.209.93.142 (talk) 15:44, 5 September 2024 (UTC)