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I'm thinking this should be moved to Spanish conjugation. — Chameleon 21:47, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
For completeness, shouldn't the tables contain the negative imperative forms, which are different for tú and vosotros? Perhaps this point is made in another article, but since this article is supposed to be a more or less comprehensive summary of verb forms, I would think these forms should be included here.Tawagoto 03:59, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
The tables seem incomplete in this regard. I book I have entitled "1001 Pitfalls in Spanish" (Barron's, (c) 1986) makes the following points:
I would be grateful if someone who knows what he/she is doing could fill these forms in. Tawagoto 19:51, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
1. I put the Spanish names of conjugation forms, only the first verb if you don't agree or it must be changed.
2. Conditional is also indicative.
3. The pronouns must be after the imperative:
come tú/vos, comed vosotros.
4. what about composed forms, such as present perfect?--Daniel bg 16:20, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, the tú form of the imperative of haber should be "hé," not "he." Also, I'm a bit confused about the imperative of haber, in general. I don't understand how it could be translated, and sites vary in their explanations. One site claims that haber doesn't even exist in the imperative form. There are also some confusing notes on http://www.123teachme.com/learn_spanish/interrogative_pronouns_adjectives , which states the following:
"Given as a form only, as Haber has no Imperative Mood in modern Spanish, except in Héme, héte, héle, aquí, etc. (here I am, here thou art, here he is, etc.), and in some other rare cases.
In Spanish there is no imperative negative, the Pres. Subj. negative being used instead, as:
Can anyone clarify this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.38.224.100 (talk • contribs)
Found a nice site which I think will compliment this article. Not so much on the theory, rather the Spanish read along(on the Español tab), and the Spanish verb trainer. http://www.spanishdaddy.com/Presente.aspx What do you think? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.46.202.189 (talk) 09:31, 21 March 2007 (UTC).
I've been trying to do some editing lately, but I was told to come here to discuss my edits, so here I am. I am just a bit confused about which sites can and can't be added to the external links. I added one cool site to the section and it was removed almost straight away, yet there are other sites with far less content linked from here. I'm going to re-add the site and if anyone has any problems, please bring it up with me here before removing it, thanks. Lumpeseckel 01:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
So the link has been removed again. I still fail to see how one person can make the decisions. What gives one person right to include/delete links as they see fit? It's not right. Lumpeseckel 03:27, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Maybe it should be clarified that yacer means "to be in a horizontal position" rather than "to give false information". --ReiVaX 11:39, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Is there really any reason to have this verb on this list, anyway? 70.253.203.14 (talk) 23:24, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
In accordance with the aforementioned statement, if yacer is 'hardly used in colloquial speech' it deserves no place on this list; at the very least a verb such as conocer which follows similar rules. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Captain Cusack (talk • contribs) 03:35, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
I think the rarity of the historical second-personal plural imperative form in everyday speech is greatly exaggerated in this article. It probably varies from place to place, but there are certainly areas with enough people who use it casually to make it very unlikely for an observer not to hear it often, and consequently it's easily felt as different from the infinitive, despite their common confusion (where the infinitive prevails because modern Spanish speakers find it easier to pronounce a final r than a d). Also, I think some of them do use íos (dismissed here as obsolete) as the pronominal form for ir, which is no surprise, since rather few people know the RAE prescribes idos. In fact, idos looks like an awkward invention made only to supply, without admitting it, the consonant those who substitute the infinitive—iros—for the second-person plural imperative tend to insert. Anyone with the habit of using verbs in the -d imperative and its pronominal form without this consonant, unless they know this odd RAE prescription and are making a conscious effort to conform to it, will readily say íos. They probably won't even feel any difference between ir and any other verb in this regard. I don't know why the RAE does not accept íos fully.
Naturally, this whole issue affects only the regions where the vosotros verb forms are still in use (most of Spain, and little more). However, the imperative forms used with vos (in the cases where they haven't been replaced by the tú ones) haven't taken on the -r from the infinitive—they've solved the difficulty in pronouncing the final d simply by dropping it (cantad → cantá), which is also what most dialects of Spanish tend to do with any other final d (verdad, David, majestad, pared). Splibubay (talk) 17:33, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
I am a very experienced Spanish speaker. I've been speaking since I was 7, and my mother is as good as a native speaker. However, because of where I learned to speak (and from whom, I suppose), I've never heard of the usage of voseo until now. Not saying it doesn't exist, I've done my research. but what I'm proposing is that we just link the first occurrences of tú and vos in this article for people who are coming at this not knowing the difference, if what I just said made any sense. --- cymru lass (hit me up)⁄(background check) 18:35, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I wanted to share my suggestions for editing the form "vos" in the page. Please note that I am not experienced in the language but have come across this from a trustworthy source, "Real Academia Espanola" (http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=vos ) and it might be worth considering.
From what I understand (and again, I might be wrong), the "vos" as described/conjugated in these examples (on the Wiki page) and often spoken in various Latin American countries are a variant form of "vos" as it should be used. The actual usage should be with the "eis" ending. For example (and these are quoted directly from the Real website): "Vos, don Pedro, sois docto; vos, Juana, sois caritativa." In the colloquial Spanish described on the Wiki page, the form would take "sos" rather than "sois," and the same holds true for verbs like "amais" changed to "amas" or "teneis" changed to "tenes." In the colloquial Spanish of "vos," the "i" of "eis" is taken out.
I have come across this in many prayers as well, where "vos" is used to speak to God. Take the following example: "Dios y Señor mío, yo os doy infinitas gracias por todos los favores que hicisteis al glorioso San Ramón No-nacido; por cuyos méritos os suplico humildemente, que así como fuisteis tan liberal con el glorioso santo cardenal, lo seáis en esta ocasión conmigo, concediéndome el despacho de la petición que solicito en esta novena, para más serviros y amaros. Amén" ( http://www.devocionario.com/santos/nonato_2.html emphasis added). In the colloquial Spanish, "hicisteis" would take the form "hicistes," and the same holds true for the other examples in the prayer.
Feel free to take this with a grain of salt in case any of this is incorrect, but it might be worth observing.
:-)
70.72.44.213 (talk) 21:05, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
I noticed that this article doesn't mention anything about the principal parts of Spanish verbs. Will this information be added in the future? Jarble (talk) 18:18, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
The term "principal parts" is much used in the tradition of English grammar, to help learners keep track of irregular verbs like "go"/"went"/"gone" (as opposed to regular ones like "help"/"helped"/"helped"). For English it is a practical concept, because the forms that change are seen as whole words. But in Spanish the forms that change are the "stems" of verbs (which are bound to "endings"). So the information you are looking for is in the article, but it is called by other terms, such as "stem-changing". I'm deleting the note at the top of the article that says "This article is missing information about principal parts of Spanish verbs" etc. "Principle parts" are not part of the Spanish grammatical tradition. See the article Principal parts, where it says "In Spanish, verbs are traditionally held to have only one principal part, the infinitive, by which one can classify the verb into one of three conjugation paradigms (according to the ending of the infinitive, which may be -ar, -er or -ir)." Kotabatubara (talk) I don't know why the "quadruple tilde" signature failed to include time data: approx. 00:10, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
This so-called rule of thumb is actually a big misconception that keeps spreading and confusing learners of the language. As the Nueva Gramática de la Lengua Española, 37.7d, puts it, the correct rule of thumb, still with its exceptions but much more precise, is to regard statements built with "ser" as describing an inherent, context-independent, characteristic of the thing it references. On the other hand, sentences built with estar describe a context-, situation-dependent state of what's referenced.
In fewer words, the rule of thumb is the following: ser is for inherent characteristics while estar for states. Apolo399 (talk) 15:51, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
I don't understand why conocer is listed as an example of an irregular verb. The only way in which it differs from regular verbs is the addition of the letter z in some forms of the present indicative, present subjunctive, and the imperatives (i.e. whenever the "ending" does not begin with e or i). But surely that's always the rule for verbs whose infinitives end in -_cer or -_cir (with a vowel in the _ position)? I can't think of any example of a verb that doesn't follow this rule (except for those which are irregular anyway, like decir). And if that's the "default" rule, surely it should count as regular?
For the same reason we don't usually consider verbs that end in -guir (like distinguir) to be irregular, even though the u is sometimes dropped, again whenever the "ending" does not begin with e or i (yo distingo).
I think we should remove that example from the list, or perhaps replace it with another one that's irregular.