This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Thomas Jefferson article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43Auto-archiving period: 14 days

This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Thomas Jefferson was one of the History good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones Date Process Result June 25, 2006 Good article nominee Listed June 15, 2008 Peer review Reviewed September 3, 2009 Good article reassessment Delisted December 6, 2015 Good article nominee Not listed Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on April 13, 2017, April 13, 2018, and July 4, 2019. Current status: Delisted good article

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

faq page Frequently asked questions (FAQ) Q1: I added something to the article but it got removed. Why? A1: In all probability what you added was trivia, unsourced information or information cited to an unreliable source; such information is usually removed quickly. Articles on Wikipedia require reliable sources for an independent verification of the facts presented; consequently, any information added to an article without a reliable source is subject to removal from the article at any Wikipedian's discretion. Q2: I tried to edit this article but couldn't. Why? A2:This article has been indefinitely semi-protected due to persistent vandalism or violations of content policy. Semi-protection prevents edits from anonymous users (IP addresses), as well as edits from any account that is not autoconfirmed (is at least four days old and has ten or more edits to Wikipedia) or confirmed. Such users can request edits to this article by proposing them on this talk page, using the ((edit semi-protected)) template if necessary to gain attention. Q3: I want to add some sourced information with references but don't understand the referencing style. A3: This article's established referencing is a specific type of Harvard style citations, making use of anchored references, using the hashtag symbol to anchor the references to the cited sources. The nomenclature looks like: <ref>[[#abc| Author name, 2000]], p.123</ref>...placed as an inline citation within the text, which then creates a shortened footnote in the References section. ((cite book |last=Smith |first=Alex |title=book title |year=2000 |publisher=publisher name |ref=abc ))...placed in the Bibliography section. If you do not understand how to write up a reference for this article but want to add information & a cited source, post your request on the talk page and someone will try to help you.

This  level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Biography: Politics and Government / Science and Academia / Core This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Top-importance). This article is supported by the science and academia work group. This article is listed on the project's core biographies page. Human rights High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Human rights, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Human rights on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Human rightsWikipedia:WikiProject Human rightsTemplate:WikiProject Human rightsHuman rights articles High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. International relations Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Philosophy: Philosophers / Aesthetics / Social and political / Religion / Modern Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Associated task forces: /  Philosophers Aesthetics Social and political philosophy Philosophy of religion Modern philosophy Politics: American / Libertarianism High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by American politics task force (assessed as Top-importance). This article is supported by WikiProject Libertarianism (assessed as High-importance). United States: Presidential elections / Presidents / State Legislatures / Government / Governors Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. presidential elections (assessed as Mid-importance). This article is supported by WikiProject United States Presidents (assessed as Top-importance). This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. State Legislatures (assessed as Low-importance). This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. Government (assessed as High-importance). This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. governors (assessed as Mid-importance). Virginia: University of Virginia Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Virginia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Virginia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.VirginiaWikipedia:WikiProject VirginiaTemplate:WikiProject VirginiaVirginia articles Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject University of Virginia (assessed as Top-importance). Guild of Copy Editors This article was copy edited by Zppix, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors articles

Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments, look in the archives, and review the FAQ before commenting.

This has been mentioned by a media organization: Kyle Keeler (2023-2-23). "How Wikipedia Erases Indigenous History". Slate. Retrieved 2023-12-1. Wikipedia's page on Jefferson, himself an architect of Indian Removal, draws on outdated scholarship from the 1970s to argue that Jefferson wanted what "was best for American Indians." One sentence alludes to recent scholarship arguing that Jefferson removed Native peoples to gain land. During a discussion about Jefferson's role in removal, the editor responsible for almost a quarter of the pages for Washington, Jefferson, and Ulysses S. Grant made false, racist claims, writing, "We certainly don't want to connotate any negativity towards Jefferson, do we? Okay, we can mention that many tribes were war like, xenophobic, refused to assimilate and that for everyone's own good and general welfare it was deemed best to keep the two diametrically opposed cultures in separate parts of the country." ((cite news)): Check date values in: |access-date= and |date= (help)

I will be working to reduce this article down to <15,000 words so we can forgo the ((too long)) template. Please discuss errors, issues, concerns here. Be gentle if you can. jengod (talk) 15:52, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think this can be addressed by simple editing. For example, the summary style layout of article families tends to bloat over time at the top level with content that should be in child articles. The section Presidency (1801–1809) could be pared back down to a couple of paragraphs with anything that isn't already redundant moved to Presidency of Thomas Jefferson. Similar repetition issues exist with Religious views of Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Jefferson and slavery. Use of Template:Excerpt might help prevent future bloat. VQuakr (talk) 19:47, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

On second thought, I am in no way equipped to summarize Thomas Jefferson's presidency, views on religion, or relationship with slavery in two paragraphs. I hope it gets sorted. Cheers all. jengod (talk) jengod (talk) 23:38, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't do any cutting of the page because of a toolong tag (which I'll remove again but it seems to keep getting reverted). WP:LENGTH is a guideline, and guidelines include language about using common sense and exceptions. Removing good text harms the page, so please don't do so, thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:30, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know about "cutting"; moving things to subpages isn't generally considered a cut. I don't see any reason for special pleading for this particular article. VQuakr (talk) 16:35, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add in 1 sentence Jefferson vice-presidency section on Georgia electoral irregularity. It can be in Vice presidency or 1800 election as Vice president is President of the senate.

Jefferson presided over the electoral college vote count of his candidacy's election

Sources here https://scholarship.law.gwu.edu/faculty_publications/774/

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/03/how-jefferson-counted-himself-in/302888/ https://heinonline.org/HOL/Page?handle=hein.journals/valr90&id=5&div=&collection= 207.96.32.81 (talk) 05:50, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the ((Edit semi-protected)) template. Since this edit request has been open for almost a month, it seems people are hesitant to enact it on a well-watched page. I'm going to decline it for now, but if a consensus is established by other editors I certainly don't think that is unreasonable. I think adding this in may provide undue weight to the issue, as the paragraph in question is relatively small and already links to 1800 United States presidential election and already has a section on the issue. The main article is already tagged with ((very long)), which should make us cautious about adding undue weight to anything new. Bestagon ⬡ 15:31, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

George Mason, not Thomas Jefferson, wrote The Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom. On the George Mason University campus, his statue holds a book marked The Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom. Additionally, on the website, https://billofrightsinstitute.org/essays/virginia-statute-for-religious-freedom# it explains those who wrote The Statute. 2600:6C58:64F0:E70:5457:765F:37C6:DA18 (talk) 20:35, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Your source says Mason was involved in codifying religious freedom into law but Jefferson drafted the Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom, which is in line with current text here and in line with current citations both here and on Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom including the Library of Congress Cannolis (talk) 00:59, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

might want to add in the fact that he raped his slaves because people need to the truth 24.53.78.25 (talk) 19:03, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - FlightTime (open channel) 19:25, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]