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Template:Music originated in Europe

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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 02:45, 25 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Music originated in Europe (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Unwieldy navigation template that will be of little help to people who read any article tagged with this template. (Hard to imagine someone will be reading about "Mazurka" and want to go to "Blues rock" just because both originated in Europe). Could be a list instead, better as a category, best as deleted completely. -- Michael Scott Cuthbert (talk) 22:46, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:2012–13 Fußball-Bundesliga table

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 21:36, 27 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Template:2012–13 Fußball-Bundesliga table (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Substitute and delete – Redundant since the league is over. Kingjeff (talk) 16:23, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wait until the Pokal Final, and then substitute and delete. Stigni (talk) 17:35, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 12:45, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:16TeamBracket-2Leg-final-1leg

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 21:37, 27 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Template:16TeamBracket-2Leg-final-1leg (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

This template is no longer needed. The Template:16TeamBracket-2legs-except final provides the same function as this template and is more widely used. In addition, no article transcludes or uses this template. MicroX (talk) 08:14, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Keep local

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was speedy keep. It is clear nobody agrees with Addihockey10, and two prior TFDs should have amply attested to that. The time being spent arguing on this TFD page should rather be spent deciding on a new wording for the template on its talk page. Please continue the conversation at Template talk:Keep local. Shii (tock) 06:07, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Keep local (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

This template is useless, it undermines the reason we have commons. This template is abused when someone does not like the outcome of a DR on commons (see examples ex 1 diff ex 1 DR ex 2 ex 2 DR) The high-risk images in this category can be protected from creation, as far as I understand the cascading protection on those images will prevent any non-admin from uploading a file with that name and since it's a high-risk image they can be protected on commons which eliminates the need to retain a local copy. The author of the file should not be able to impose additional restrictions outside of the standard restrictions of our allowed licenses.

Over time images are improved, optimized, updated and it would not be practical to have to update two separate image files which are exactly the same. All files tagged with this aren't free, they're restricted similar to the licenses now under WP:CSD#F3 which are now deprecated. There is no way that an editor should get a free pass to keep a local image without any justification necessary, especially in the cases where they are involved in a deletion request with the same image. Thank you. --Addihockey10 e-mail 04:27, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Obvious keep - if the template is being misused in any way that can be addressed, but there are in fact numerous reasons why a local copy of an image might be appropriate. Note also that it doesn't prevent images from being copied to Commons, if appropriate. The nomination seems a bit confused and does not appear to present any valid reason for deletion of the template. The two previous deletion nominations both ended with a strong consensus for retention of the template. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is the misuse isn't being addressed and there is no policy for the use of this template. Theoretically I could tag every image with this template and no one could do anything about it as the template has no policy regarding it's usage. I am calling for deletion of this template as it stands now, I'm not saying that any different approach is wrong but we either need to get rid of this template or develop a policy that restricts it's usage to reasonable rationales. --Addihockey10 e-mail 05:48, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A request to keep a copy of a file doesn't make the file unfree. In the same way, an article isn't unfree simply because the community decides to keep it in an AfD. A request to keep a file is not a binding requirement to do so. The community is free to ignore any such request, which for example sometimes happens at WP:PUF, if a file with this template is found to be a copyright violation. --Stefan2 (talk) 12:54, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Admins don't touch files with ((keeplocal)) because it explicitly says that you cannot delete it per F8 - how are they not binded to comply with that policy? I've requested some of the loosest admins to delete some noncontroversial free files and they refused solely because of that tag, which was placed by an editor who disagreed with the outcome of the DR. --Addihockey10 e-mail 15:55, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That is complete bollocks, at least for the examples you have quoted so far. As I already noted above, all your examples were closed keep in the Commons DRs you have linked so cannot possibly be tagged to circumvent a Commons decision. Why do you keep repeating this when it is patently not correct? SpinningSpark 22:54, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You clearly misunderstand one of the key points of this discussion, I never said that they were tagged to influence the DR, I said they were tagged because the editors in question didnt like the outcome. --Addihockey10 e-mail 05:48, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In that case you need to explain this "key point" a lot more carefully. The outcome in both cases at Commons was "keep". If the editors did not like this outcome then presumably they wanted the files deleted. How on earth is tagging them "Do not move to Commons" on Wikipedia supposed to help achieve that? Also, I do not believe that I actually said, or even implied, anywhere that you said tagging was intended to influence the DR discussion. SpinningSpark 07:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The thing is that a TfD can't change policy. As long as the WP:CSD#F8 policy tells that a file with ((keep local)) can't be deleted under the F8 criterion, files with ((keep local)) can't be deleted under that criterion even if ((keep local)) is a red link. You would have to change the policy first. --Stefan2 (talk) 00:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's true also, but I was thinking more of the turning the specifically taken images for Belton House (a featured article) into what appeared to be 8 distorted pixelated squares illustrating nothing.  Giano  19:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't seem to have anything to do with F8, though. If there are copyright problems, or if the person doesn't copy relevant information to Commons, the file is ineligible for deletion per WP:CSD#F8 as F8 only applies to files which have been transferred correctly and where there is no reasonable doubt that the licence wouldn't be accepted on Commons. Unused images are frequently deleted as useless on both Commons and Wikipedia, so those won't be deleted more frequently there than here. --Stefan2 (talk) 00:58, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Unsolved

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was no consensus Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 02:41, 25 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Unsolved (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Giving this one a nudge again, having been surprised to encounter it while reading about the Beggar-My-Neighbour card game. This template produces a floating grey box containing an unsolvable problem related to the article, phrased as a (sometimes quite lengthy) question and titled with a link to "List of unsolved problems in [field]". The question is either repeating a "this problem is famously unsolved" statement already made in the corresponding section of article text, or making an additional, otherwise-unmentioned point which the article does not address.

This template was TfD'd a year ago for being inappropriately WP:NOTTEXTBOOK, which I don't think it particularly is - the problem is just that this 2005 template looks out of place in modern Wikipedia articles, which generally use either navboxes or sidebars for this kind of navigation, both of which seem more useful than detaching what would otherwise be a line of article prose and giving it a "List of unsolved problems in X" caption.

Comments on the last TfD suggested replacing this with a series of "unsolved problems in [field]" sidebars (providing direct links to other problems in the same field); another approach would be to flesh out the existing ((unsolved problems)) template into ten sections with links in each. Either way, I think this original template has probably had its day. McGeddon (talk) 13:19, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Ten Pound Hammer: Could you explain HOW this violates WP:NOTTEXTBOOK? I see no connection. Michael Hardy (talk) 18:30, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not certain that this template's advocates would wholeheartedly embrace its replacement with a series of sidebars. For one thing, sidebars are a lot more limited in scope; they can only include problems that are the focus of an article, not simply mentioned in passing. I'm willing to put together the sidebars in question (I've made a start at User:DoctorKubla/Unsolved), but I'd like to know beforehand that it won't be a waste of time, so I think this TfD is necessary. DoctorKubla (talk) 11:05, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That looks absolutely fine to me. I haven't seen anyone arguing against using sidebars for these, so I don't see any barrier to that work being rolled out. Thanks for stepping up. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 11:53, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I suggested a couple of replacements and hoped that other ideas and/or a consensus would emerge from the discussion. DoctorKubla's sidebars would work well for articles which are entirely about the problem; for those which aren't, either the text already mentions the problem's noted lack of solution (and this can be given a wikilink or a ((seealso)) to "list of unsolved problems in X") or it doesn't (and the floating question box can be reframed as prose, with maybe some sourcing and context). We can make sure that no such information is lost, should the template be deleted. --McGeddon (talk) 22:47, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 02:52, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Given that I feel the correct "look" for this kind of information is a sidebar, a wikilink or a seealso, "improvement" would effectively be destroying the template. This seemed like the best, most prominent place to raise that possibility (a TfD'd template raises an alert line on the articles its being deleted from), rather than boldly "improving" the articles myself, or questioning them all individually on articles, to mixed response. I thought the other TfDs seemed old and underdiscussed enough to merit another look, particularly with the focus of most of them being the WP:NOTTEXTBOOK tone of the boxes' questions. --McGeddon (talk) 16:16, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Agree that the sidebar, while well-intentioned, misses the point about what makes this template valuable. --JBL (talk) 15:13, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If it'd help to have a clear proposal from the nominator, it would just be:-
  • Replace it with a sidebar template like this one on any article whose main subject is an unsolved problem, and which could helpfully be said to be "part of a series on unsolved problems in X". (eg. P versus NP problem, which currently says "List of unsolved problems in computer science: Is P = NP ?" in its floating box.)
  • Delete it from any article where it's simply repeating already wikified article text. (eg. Turbulence, which says "Still, a complete description of turbulence remains one of the unsolved problems in physics." in prose and opens with "Nobel Laureate Richard Feynman described turbulence as 'the most important unsolved problem of classical physics'." in the lede, followed by a floating "List of unsolved problems in physics: Is it possible to make a theoretical model to describe the behavior of a turbulent flow — in particular, its internal structures?" box later in the article.)
  • Delete it but add a wikilink/seealso in any article where the box is repeating article text but otherwise not linking to the "list of unsolved problems in X" article. (eg. Beggar-My-Neighbour, where a section opens "A longstanding question in combinatorial game theory asks whether there is a game of Beggar-My-Neighbour that goes on forever." with a template saying "List of unsolved problems in mathematics: Is there a non-terminating game of Beggar-My-Neighbour?" immediately next to it.)
  • Delete it and add the same question as prose, in any article where the question raised in the box is not explained in the article body. (Although I can't find any obvious examples of this being the case, skimming the template usage.)
That's it. So long as a list of templated articles is noted somewhere, all of these steps could be applied afterwards and piecemeal, were the templates to be removed. --McGeddon (talk) 16:16, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep if it will be changed to User:DoctorKubla/Unsolved. Garion96 (talk) 08:53, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Childish how? Michael Hardy (talk) 18:43, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- I agree with Joel B. Lewis; the template appears as a convenient link to other items of interest at just the right moment and calls attention to the fact that the topic is one of ongoing interest. It thus fulfills the purpose of informing not instructing and doesn't violate NotTextBook (though even that is being overplayed here as saying that WP must be dry and can't be exciting; there's nothing there that says informing can't be fun). I would support a move to "Unsolved Math" or something since similar templates could exist (I'd encourage) in other fields -- Michael Scott Cuthbert (talk) 03:52, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Although the policy name keeps popping up in this discussion, only a single editor - the second commenter - has actually said that they see it as relevant. --McGeddon (talk) 08:44, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, the person who proposed deletion also said that. Without explanation. Michael Hardy (talk) 18:04, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The person who nominated it for deletion was McGeddon, who responded to your question above. He stated in his nomination "This template was TfD'd a year ago for being inappropriately WP:NOTTEXTBOOK, which I don't think it particularly is". So he doesn't think it's relevant, only one editor in this discussion said it is relevant. Garion96 (talk) 18:26, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I assume the concern is that the box looks a little bit like it's asking a textbook-style leading question: "Is it possible to make a theoretical model to describe the behavior of a turbulent flow — in particular, its internal structures? Physicists are unsure.", which wouldn't be an appropriate tone of voice for Wikipedia, but I think it's close enough to "An unsolved problem in physics is whether it is possible to make a theoretical model to describe the behavior of a turbulent flow — in particular, its internal structures." that this isn't really a problem. --McGeddon (talk) 19:13, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Egypt Central

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete due to the lack of primary links (even with Devour the Day)  Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 21:37, 27 May 2013 (UTC) (Updated 02:48, 28 May 2013 (UTC))[reply]

Template:Egypt Central (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

WP:NENAN The Banner talk 18:28, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Reply - See Also sections are more difficult to maintain. If this is the solution, then why do we have navboxes at all?
Note to admin - Devour The Day was removed from the navbox in the middle of the discussion, and I did not readd it per WP:BRD. This article should be considered with respect to the number of relevant links in the navbox. --Jax 0677 (talk) 20:13, 16 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

ow, now you try it this way. In fact, DTD is just moved to the "See also"-section of the article itself. The Banner talk 00:50, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 02:49, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.