Can someone please identify these eucalypts. If these photos are not sufficient for identification, I can quite easily go back and take more - just tell me what of.
Hi Fir - it won't be easy, with there being over 500 species in the genus. Your best option is to collect a foliage sample, with flowers and fruit if possible, and send it (with these bark/tree photos) to Melbourne RBG for them to identify - MPF00:10, 3 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty sure these are acacia's but I would like postive ID, and maybe something more specific than just "acacia" (it looks similar to Image:Koeh-004.jpg, but that species lives in Africa)
Hi Fir - same problem as with the Eucalyptus, there's '00s of species to choose from. Of the ones I know, it isn't far removed from Silver Wattle (Acacia dealbata), though the leaves don't look glaucous enough for this species. Again, I'd guess it would be worth mailing a sample to Melbourne RBG - MPF09:25, 3 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comment MPF, I'll try email something to the Botanical Gardens, but as much as I'm devoted to the project, I'd have to cycle a fair way to get samples, plus as a student at my age I don't have too much loose change for posting things for identification :-) --Fir000208:07, 9 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
For groups known from the fossil record, we should consider adding the time periods they are known from to the taxobox. This is something that has been suggested on occasion, but I don't recall any real decision on the matter being made; recently it was brought up again at talk:dinosaur. In general, I think this is exactly the sort of information that should be provided in taxoboxes, provided we apply the usual caveats - i.e. it should be left out in cases where it is uninformative or controversial. Possibly it could go in the header in place of, or as an augmentation to, the conservation status, as shown. Josh
Good idea in many respects, though if only done for fossil taxa it would leave extant taxa with a long history in a bit of a limbo by comparison - e.g. Ginkgo (Permian to Present) - MPF10:41, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I think giving a full range of dates is necessary. It's possible to do that using the fossil2 template - I've changed the above table to do so - but as you can see, the result is cramped. The periods should be on their own line; we could add a newline to the template, but that might be inconsistent with extinct2. I do think this belongs in the header, though, since it relates to the existence of the group.
((Taxobox_begin | color=lightgreen | name=Ginkgophytes))<br><!-- Would actually use ((StatusEndangered)), but that adds a category --><small>'''[[Wikipedia:Conservation status|Conservation status:]] Endangered'''</small><br><small>Fossil range: [[Permian]] - Recent</small>
((Taxobox_begin_placement | color = lightgreen))
((Taxobox_regnum_entry | taxon = [[Plant]]ae))
((Taxobox_divisio_entry | taxon = '''Ginkgophyta'''))
((Taxobox_end_placement))
((Taxobox_end))
If we want to be able to mix and match with any conservation status, then we should probably add this as a separate item instead of multiplying the existing templates. Possibly something like the table shown here - note Ginkgophyta and Ginkgo should be split once we start discussing extinct members. Does this sound good to everyone, and does anyone have any ideas on how to improve it? Josh
I think it's a great idea. I also think it's very important yet straightforward and standardised information that's perfect for taxoboxes. I would suggest adding something such as "Range:Permian-Recent", "Palaeontological Range:Permian-Recent", "Pal. Range:Permian-Recent", or "Fossil Range:Permian-Recent". I think separating Ginkgophyta from Ginkgo will take care of itself as articles on fossil taxa are written. The specific article should pertain to the lowest taxonomic unit (Ginkgo) and the range should also relate to just that unit. It does emphasize that although only a single extant taxon is in a higher taxonomic group, there may be call for a separate article for the higher group that describes the characteristics and lists both extant and extinct taxa. --Aranae20:45, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
None of the books I have use a label, but I like fossil range - it clearly refers to when remains have been found, rather than speculation about when the group actually originated. I've added it to the table. I'll wait a little while longer to see if there are any further opinions, but if there aren't I'll go ahead and add this version to /taxobox usage. Josh
I agree that the ((StatusFossil2)) template makes things crowded.... but that could be changed so that the new concept works better. Nothing's set in stone here. *grins* Um... except the fossils. *grins* I think I like "fossil record" better than "fossil range". It gives the same information a slightly different context. Things don't range through time, they range through space moving here and there and back again. Records have a time element to them saying when they were created or died or (in this case) fossilized, as the case may be. - UtherSRG(talk)11:35, 6 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I understand your point, range usually means geographical range. But record doesn't really imply dates, and ranges can be temporal or even more abstract; the few times I've seen this labelled, it's usually something like stratigraphic range. Feel free to change it as you see fit; I think making this part of the standard is more important than fixing the exact terminology. I'm certain it shouldn't be added to the status templates, though; we would have to add the same thing to each one, and that's a sign things should be modular. Josh
I think range is the better option. Range is a numerical term indicating from X to Y (linearly) or all points within a region in space defined by exterior points (X,Y), (V,W), (A,B), etc. It's valid for both space and time. Using the term record followed by a range of dates implies that fossils for the taxon have been found at all points in between. A taxonomic group may range from the Paleocene to the Recent, but fossils may have only been found in the Paleocene, Pliocene, and Recent. --Aranae20:55, 6 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, for the time being I've added this as-is to the taxobox page. I'll also go ahead and add it to a few pages, to see if there's any comments. Josh
I included it on a new page, Bristle-spined Porcupine and found that I needed a <br> between the status and fossil range. Sandboxing it suggested that adding the <br> in an instance where the status is fossil would add an extra blank line. Yet StatusFossil alone without fossil range doesn't insert the extra line. Everything's great on another new page, Spiny rat which is a higher group and therefore has no cons. status. --Aranae20:00, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
For extant groups that are exclusively recent, Aranae, I think the fossil range should be left out. You're right about the <br> tag. The templates were internally inconsistent, so some added an extra line, but I've fixed this. Josh
Recently I have become interested in grouping the extinct living things by Epochs in Categories. I do really like the presentation of the StatusFossil taxobox options, but I think it would be beneficial to compose categories for these animals to provide context for people interested in these epochal periods. This, I believe, would allow people to see what other animals were around at the time and what the evolutionary progression over time looked like. I have already begun with many of the homonids and the few Pleistocene mammals I was able to find. I will gladly take it on myself, but since there was already a community discussing listing their epochs I figured I would mention it so people were aware of it. --aremisasling17:55, 9 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I am assembling a list of taxonomy terms from the 1911EB list, many of which may be obsolete. I wouls like to invite anyone interested to glance at them and help decide whether to keep or discard them. Any comments on these terms are appreciated. See Wikipedia:1911 Encyclopedia topics/15. --DanielCD 15:31, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
In the past, when editing some botanical pages, I have italicised plant Families (following the standard procedure of the British RHS (Royal Horticultural Society) in all of its publications). In some cases this has subsequently been reverted, and I now see that the families in "How to read a taxobox" are in roman rather than italics. Is this the internationally accepted format? SiGarb20:45, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I've never seen any such standard. But evey Journal has its own set of standards (or more correctly formatting) that it adheres to for consistency appreciated by subscribers. These are not standards that extend beyond the publication. - Marshman18:27, 5 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Roman type for suprageneric ranks of plants is a very common publication style, so much so as to be very nearly universal. I'm actually very surprised at the example of the RHS - the New RHS Dictionary of Gardening uses Roman type, as does the RHS Plantfinder and the Garden, unless they've changed very recently - MPF22:43, 5 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The ICBN itself italicizes all ranks, which is probably meant to be exemplary, although not many things follow it. I might note that italicized families and orders are fairly common when discussing bacteria, but I don't think I've ever seen them used for animals or protozoa. Josh
Indeed there is no universal standard for botany. There are many books that use italicization for all botanical names. However, there are also plenty of works that don't consistently use italicization for species and genera. Every publication sets its own standard, and very often this depends on the purpose of the publication, or what looks good in that particular spot. It is not uncommon to see new names in bold face (not italicized).
Indeed the ICBN uses italicized names throughout, and this is deliberate
For less specialized works it is quite common practice to italicize names of genera, species and lower taxa and not to italicize family names. Names at levels higher than family are not all that much used.
There's a format error in ((StatusPrehistoric)), ((StatusExtinct|when=c.[[]])) and ((StatusEndangered)), in that they force a carriage return after them (the other status tags don't). Could someone who knows how to edit these please correct them! - Thanks, MPF01:05, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Are you sure? All the status tags I tried seemed to force carriage returns, and they don't seem different internally. Josh
I was going on the page layout resulting at Tadorninae, where Prehistoric, Extinct and Endangered are followed by large gaps in the list, while the others aren't - MPF10:52, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Jo, though there's still gaps after Réunion Shelduck and Mauritius Shelduck, which aren't there in the edit page - I'm baffled - MPF18:29, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
These all still contain the paraphyletic taxon Magnoliopsida. I think it is about time we instituted at least a change to Rosopsida for the orders in that taxon, which is well established as monophyletic. Anyone want to set up a robot to do the task?
Whether the remainder should have [[Dicotyledon|Magnoliopsida]] changed to [[Palaeodicots|Magnoliopsida]] is more difficult; that group is still paraphyletic, but not all of the formal class names have been sorted and published yet.
Rosopsida Batsch, Dispos. Gen. Pl. Jenens.: 28. 1788 [1][2] is a published name, so we can use that safely. I agree the others are difficult, though Magnoliopsida can safely be used for the magnoliid orders, and some of the others appear to be published (second ref above, scroll down to "Higher Taxa Accepted by Reveal with Authorships") - MPF23:41, 21 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't thinking of the name itself so much (sometimes it seems every imaginable name has been published by somebody :-) ), as the "well established" part. What do we say if some contrarian comes along and points to a giant pile of current literature that doesn't use Rosopsida? Stan05:46, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Pretty much true about everything being published! Reveal is a very highly respected botanist so it would be reasonable to say we're following his lead. I'm not aware of any large body of (recent) literature that uses anything else; it is a sibling taxon to Liliopsida which we do use, so it actually looks odd now not to use it. - MPF09:43, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
It is still a bit confusing, e.g. the University of Hamburg (Germany) still gives three classes : Magnoliopsida, Rosopsida and Liliopsida (see here : [3]). And AGP II doesn't even mention the word Rosopsida, but goes directly to Eudicots etc... . I have no personal preference but I think this whole question should be thoroughly discussed first, unless we attract adverse criticism. Can we rely on a recent scientific publication or on enough recent reliable sources ? JoJan12:52, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Eudicots and Rosopsida are the same taxon - they are effectively a common name and a formal scientific name respectively (like comparing Monocots and Liliopsida) - MPF14:09, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Let me try and insert a few comments
At the higher ranks, indeed, a very great deal of names are "validly published" and a name like Magnoliopsida can be applied to any group whatsoever (provided it does include Magnoliaceae). It has been used for the Angiosperms, for the dicots, and for who knows what other groups.
At the ranks above family the principle of priority is not mandatory in the ICBN, so any taxonomist publishing a system can choose almost any name he prefers.
The availability of names is not really an issue here as wikipedia is not a publishing taxonomist but claims to follow APG 2. Following APG 2 is a very sensible decision as this is the best published and most widely accepted system. However, if wikipedia follows APG 2 it also must use the names that APG 2 uses. Otherwise wikipedia does not follow APG 2, but is striking out on its own. Also, if wikipedia were going to adopt, say, Rosopsida what will be the formal publication this will be based on? Which of the many possible circumscriptions of Rosopsida does this refer to?
The APG system is quite clear in the names it uses, which above the level of order includes such names like "angiosperms", "magnoliids", "monocots", "eudicots", "rosids", "asterids" (not capitalized). One might argue about the status of these names (see below), but there is no doubt whatsoever which names APG 2 uses.
As to the status of these names, I suppose one might argue that these names are, or could be, formal names according to the ICBN, but there is (tacit) agreement that this is not the intent. APG 2 deliberately uses these names, and there is no suggestion that these are formal names or that formal names are going adopted (it is not hard to imagine the reasons why APG refuses to adopt 'Latin names' at these levels, and these are good reasons). It is true, that the APG-names might become formal names under the PhyloCode if this ever comes into effect. For the moment categorizing the APG names is a nice exercise in semantics: in the literal meaning of the word these are "scientific names" through-and-through. They may become formal names according to the PhyloCode, or for that matter according to the ICBN. For the moment exact status of these names is unclear, and nobody cares.
Actually I don't see why wikipedia should not actually do what it claims to be doing: follow APG 2. In the taxobox the rank of "class" can be substituded by "APG-name" ("APG-group" or "APG-clade") and then the relevant APG-name.
A taxobox is intended to help the user place the taxon in question, preferably at a glance, and the APG names are fairly distinctive and easy to remember. It is a lot easier to see "eudicots" (perhaps look up the meaning of that, once) and know where the plant belongs. Seeing Magnoliopsida the reader will, firstly, hate the long 'Latin name'; secondly, he will have to know the system being used to have a frame of reference: Magnoliopsida can be the flowering plants, the dicots, or as somebody suggested above, the "palaeodicots" or more logically the "magnoliids" ("magnoliid complex"). So, Magnoliopsida is as unhelpful and as unclear a name as one can encounter. I don't see what business it has being on wikipedia, at all (other than as a single entry)?
Also interesting is the name at the rank of division. According to the ICBN names such as Angiospermae and Anthophyta may be used (both are explicitly mentioned in Art 16 Ex 2) as well as Magnoliophyta or Magnoliopsida. Obviously Cronquist uses Magnoliophyta and anybody following Cronquist will use this name as well. The APG-group obviously uses "angiosperms", which is a very well known name. So, personally I would be in favour of either "angiosperms" or its equivalent Angiospermae. The latter would not be quite APG, but it looks pretty close to me. Brya13:33, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the taxoboxes you use for animals, plants etc.[edit]
Unfortunately having to list all optional parameters seems to prevent them from being useful for taxoboxes, where the number of items varies drastically. I notice, though, that templates can now be chained. When we started, we would have liked to use a single taxobox_entry template that took two parameters, as shown at right, but it wasn't really possible at the time. I think we should adopt this; we could also add a second taxobox_entry_authority template. Josh
The reason why we couldn't is because there was a limit (5?) on the number of repeated uses of a template in a single article. A you can see, that limit is no longer an issue. I think we need a bot to make a assive change....... - UtherSRG(talk)02:19, 21 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
(See the village pump page for the example that avar is talking about). That's awesome... combining the new code with old "if defined call" hack means that we can finally create a taxobox that separates data from presentation. The implementation might be a little complex under the hood, but this wont effect end-users creating new taxoboxes much. I strongly recommend we move to this model. Pcb21|Pete09:05, 21 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I guess I should have been paying more attention. I've created a new template using optional parameters; the Lamiales and black-footed ferret boxes to the side use it (I've removed another taxobox to make room). It also has options fossil_range, range_map, and trinomial, which I think covers everything we need. The only problem is that the subdivision list gains extra spaces when it's split over multiple lines in the page source. Note I've used HTML tables instead of wikitables, which don't seem to handle whitespace intelligently enough to be used with the optional parameter templates. What do people think? Josh
Great work, but you might want to use pure wikitext tables instead of html tables, unless that's troublesome, please move this to Template:Taxobox (which is unused in the article namespace) so that we can start using it on articles immitiately. —Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason04:43, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the problem I'm having. If I put each If defined template on a separate line of text, the linefeeds persist when the parameters aren't defined, creating a lot of extra whitespace in the table. As such, I've been putting them all together, without whitespace. Wikitext tables don't work that way, since they can only have a single |- per line. That's why I've been using HTML tables, and I thought I had the problem solved. However, revisiting this page now a lot of whitespace has appeared in the Lamiales table (which omits more parameters), without anyone changing anything. Before we can start using this, I need to figure out what happened and see how it works for other people. Any insights would be greatly appreciated. Josh
I fixed that problem, it was that someone had put <noinclude> on a seperate line in some of the if defined templates that introduced an extra whitespace, which I removed, I also rewrote your templates to use wikitext rather than html and didn't encounter any of the problems you mentioned, to the side here is my template fed with your data (as you can see they produce identical results, with no whitespace). —Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason15:57, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
That looks good - the empty comments you've put in seem to fix the problem. I've copied the whole thing to the article namespace, as requested. It took some tweaking; it seems there needs to be an empty line at the start of Template:Taxobox_entry, but that doesn't persist when you edit, so I've marked it with another comment. I've change the two samples to use it, and I think all the remaining problems are solved. Unless someone has problems with the display, we should start using it. Thanks very much, Ævar.
One minor note. I've changed it so the new templates won't automatically italicize the name in the binomial section. This is partly because it makes it hard to do Candidatus species, and partly because for consistency with the other arguments. --Josh
I still have one problem with it, the image syntax, currently it's:
| image = hermelin_winterfell.jpg
| image_width = 200px <- optional, the default would be 200px
| image_caption = Stoat <- optional, this would be usd as the alt text for the image as well as for the the caption
When you include (({status))} you shouldn't have to add <br> to (({name))}, the template should take care of that
In order to make copy-pasting these to other languages easier we shouldn't have anything like | regnum=[[Animal]]ia but rather | regnum=((Animalia)), the same for (({phylum))}, (({classis))} etc.
(({*_authority)))) should be split into (({*_authority))} and (({*_authority_date))}
The italics/bold/italics-bold on (({genus))}, (({species))} and (({binomial))} should be added by the template, not passed to it in order to maintain a uniform look.
Bold is used for groups that only contain the organisms being discussed. For Lamiales this is the order, for stoat the species, for something like Symbion everything from phylum down. Because it varies, it can't be part of the template behavior.
Automatic italicization for genera and species is usually ok, but as I said it makes it difficult to handle Candidatus species (e.g. Phytoplasma, Pelagibacter). Since names have to be italicized separately in the name and subdivision fields, I think it actually makes things simpler to have them manually italicized everywhere.
Giving the date separately makes it hard to handle cases where the citation has a different form, such as when it is in parantheses (e.g. black-footed ferret) or has been notably emended (e.g. Amoebozoa). I don't really see the benefit.
The benefit would be that copying it to another language which doesn't use the format "$NAME, $YEAR" would be easier, but if it creates trouble it's probably not worth the effort. —Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason19:37, 23 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I do support making things easier to transport between wikis; that's why most ranks are in Latin. Still, we want to make things easy to edit here, too. It might be a good idea to have ((Animalia))-type templates in some cases, but requiring them for every taxon would be sacrificing usability, and as such it the need shouldn't be built into the template. Blind copy-and-paste should be discouraged anyways, since taxoboxes often have English comments in them.
I meant that we should pass them as genus = ((Animalia)), or genus = ((Taxon classification:Animalia)) or something like that, when that would mean that when they're copied to another wiki the names only ever have to be translated once, which belive me is a huge benefit (I've been translating a lot of animal articles to iswiki, this could still be left out in the cases where comments or something else is needed although genus = ((Taxon classification:Animalia)) (comment here) should work. Another huge atvantage of this is that we'd automatically build a multilingular dictionary of taxon names which could be spidered by a bot and moved to wiktionary. —Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason19:37, 23 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you about the (({status))} tags in theory, but the pre-existing templates don't include a linefeed, and I wasn't sure it was worth creating a second set over. You can experiment with it, of course. When you're done, though, I think we should protect the new templates and start using them, since nobody else seems to have any comments or objections. Josh
I inserted a hack so that <br> is inserted between the two if (({status))} is defined so there's no need for passing a linebreak manually. Please don't protect the template as non-administrators (such as myself) may want to work on improving it. —Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason19:37, 23 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Well, once we start using it in many places it will probably have to be protected, but I'm happy to leave it for now. I've rewritten the guidelines to use the new template at /taxobox usage new, and if nobody objects, I'm going to move them to /taxobox usage and the old stuff to /taxobox usage old. It's funny how little input there's been for such a fundamental change, but I'll assume it means there's no problems.
Why? Just because something is widely used doesn't mean it has to be protected, protection is a temporary tool to use against vandalism, not something that should be permanent on certain pages/templates. Anyway, sure, move the usage thing. —Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason21:39, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
One more thing I noticed: ((StatusExtinct)) takes a when argument. You know more about piping than I do - is there a way to provide that in the current framework, or do we have to nest the status inside another template to accommodate this? Thanks again, Josh
I don't think there's a way to send named parameters through an if. After some thought, I've changed things to send the status through another template. That way the <br> tag is taken care of, and the status templates can be used regardless of what parameters they take, just like the other arguments. I've started using the new template on some pages. Josh
At the moment, the new taxobox has no equivalent for the old ((Taxobox section binomial simple)), so I still have to include an empty binomial_authority argument. The result is fine (see Late figwort for example), but it is a bit clumsy. I don't really understand the new taxobox code, so I can't fix it myself, but I'd appreciate it was fixed. Eugene van der Pijll10:30, 29 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
This is probably the wrong forum, but I'm not sure of the correct one, so apologies.
At present articles have the time and date of the last edit at the bottom of the page. Would in be possible, or indeed desirable, to add, either there or on the Page history statistics, the current size of each article? jimfbleak05:48, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Wasn't taxonomy about classification and name-giving taxa, and systematics the study of organisms' evolutionary relationships? The latter is a research program and the former a practice.
Systematics: the science of organizing the history of organismal evolution
the science of ordering
Identification: recognizing the place of an organisms in an existing classification
Use of dichotomous keys to identify organisms
Taxonomy (Nomenclature): assigning scientific names according to legal rules
Recall discussion of ICZN Green Book (see also Phylocode homepage)
Classification: determining the evolutionary relationships of organisms
A "Natural Classification" will accurately reflect phylogeny
Classification should be a hypothesis of evolutionary relationships
Shouldn't we divide taxonomy from systematics more clearly? Even in the taxoboxes? I noticed that the French wikipedia put a 'classical classification' (with Linnean categories) in their taxoboxes as well as a 'phylogenetic classification' (without Linnean categories). This seems like a good practice. Maybe we can do the same at other wikipedia's but call these Taxonomy and Systematics respectively. Fedor 09:41, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I think that some professionals and near-professionals in this field use "taxonomy" to include much of what is called "systematics" above. I am sure that "taxonomy" was regualrly so used in the popular essays of Stephen Jay Gould for example. I am not sure what the usage is in actual professional publications. DES(talk)18:48, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Molecular biology is the great mangler of technical language (just consider the mangling that "homology" has gone through *sheesh*), and "taxonomy" has not escaped being a victim. Professional molecular biologists can be found to often use "taxonomy" to refer to organismal relationships, despite its improper usage ... another example of "proper is as proper does" unfortunately. Courtland01:56, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The usage of taxonomy versus systematics is slippery. Actually there are three elements: systematics, taxonomy and nomenclature. Taxonomy is the real work of dealing with organisms, defining taxa and giving them a name. Taxonomy happens in Herbaria and Natural History Museums. Systematics concerns itself with evolutionary relationships, and these days this means DNA and cladistics. Nomenclature deals with the framework of names, that taxonomists have to deal with. Systematics and nomenclature cannot exist without taxonomy, and taxonomy is not immune to the results of systematics and nomenclature. The exact boundaries and exact usage are slippery. Brya08:00, 5 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
User:Snottygobble added diversity and synonym templates to the new taxobox, with the effect that some ugly whitespace was added to taxoboxes without these parameters. Trying to remove this whitespace, I totally broke the Banksia page (see [5]). Does anyone know how to solve this? -- Eugene van der Pijll17:54, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a new cultivar infobox, as shown at right. It's a single template, but should match the appearance of the older multi-template version. Since there are only a few articles on cultivars, I've taken the liberty of updating them all. Let me know if there are any problems with this, or any other templates that should be redone. Josh
Check out Wikipedia:Featured article review, particularly Featured article examples. The goal is to standardize the basic layouts of featured articles of a specific type. There doesn't appear to be any real standard section divisioning for organisms, though three featured articles were similar enough that I tweaked them to be in the same format. Do the participants of this project think it would be useful to come up with a standard? Tuf-Kat02:52, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Hi!
Could someone tell me where the best place to put this image is? It was taken at the National Botanical Gardens in Canberra, and it looks like some kind of parasite, but I'm wondering if there is a better article than "parasite"?
Platycerium bifurcatum is an epiphytic Australian staghorn fern (and not a parasite). Unless you want to write an article about the species, you could place the photo at the Platycerium article. JoJan14:32, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
So far, looking through pages for various reptile lineages, I've found class Reptilia, class Sauropsida, class Archosauria, and class Aves. Various archosaurs are listed under each of these classes--birds obviously are Aves, dinosaurs and pterosaurs are currently Archosauria, crocodiles are Reptilia, and the entry for Archosauria itself is Class Sauropsida! This is needlessly confusing. Someone on Talk:Sauropsid had the idea to use the taxonomy presented in Benton's textbook Vertebrate Paleontology, which is widely used and well respected. While I personally have a few minor quibbles with that taxonomy (found here [6]), I think it would be an excellent starting point to implement in order to reach some form of standardization within Wikipedia entries. Who's with me? Dinoguy220:13, 9 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I am happy with that. My only caveat is that, in the relevant places, you make clear what the alternative classifications have been used in the past and why they are no longer the most preferred. Pcb21Pete23:48, 9 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't a general taxonomy problem, just one for the vertebrates. Notes on alternate systems should be given on pages they apply to - like vertebrate and reptile. I think Benton's looks like a good standard to follow. Josh
Hi folks. There are lots of people who take and post pictures of various species of plants and animals(see [9]) and they would be willing to contribute to taxobox images if they knew there was a need. The species taxoboxes without images do not make this apparent. I notice that the french wikipedia uses an image with a stub message (see fr:Houlock) that makes the lack of the image apparent. I have recently started to add a similar placeholder image, but I understand that it is not very nice. I imagine that it should be possible to put up a default text when the image is missing. Would appreciate your opinions on the matter. Shyamal12:01, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like a very good idea... a "taxobox wanted" stub might not be a bad idea either.
I don't particularly like the idea. I think there are more taxa for which getting a picture will be extremely difficult than there are easy ones. This means that most articles will basically be marked as defective for the forseeable future. I'm all for a drive to get more images, but, short of the more visible plants and animals, free use images for most species will be hard to find. Any list generated by these tags will be unmanageably large and alphabetised by article title and therefore of limited use. --Aranae18:28, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I don't like the idea either. We write the articles for our readers, not for the editors; this request is addressed to us editors, and should therefore go on the talk page. As it is, it's a particularly ugly image that immediately grabs the attention of the reader (see right). For the large majority of readers that do not have a picture of the subject, this means their attention has moved from the useful information that is available, to the useless message that something is not available. Have I mentioned that the image is also hideously ugly? Eugene van der Pijll22:40, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I hadn't even noticed that there are names from other languages until someone edited them on a page I was watching (I saw the "in other languages", just hadn't noticed that the links pointed to common names). Is there any way I can set the controls so I can see them without going into the edit page? Otherwise, why aren't they just visible, perhaps next to the language links? I like seeing other names, particularly for plants native to other regions, as there are often etomological hints to old usages, etc.SB Johnny11:11, 18 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Does anyone support the use of a template to mark new and exisitng pages that need a taxobox/ distinct from the ToL cleanup template (if it still exists)? --nixie04:01, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
"Tree of Life taxobox cleanup" is ambiguous (it sounds like the taxobox is wrongly coded). "Articles needing taxoboxes" would be better a name, I think.Circeus06:52, 1 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'd agree that these should be put on the talk page or just the [[Category:Tree of Life taxobox cleanup]] included on the main article. Either would create a list for people to work from without putting another template box on lots of articles. As to the taxoboxes themselves... there are a few versions floating around as a result of the meta-templates issue. I think there's a possibility of coming up with a single template (((taxobox)) that should satisfy everyone soon. Hoping for more input from the people who put together the taxoboxes in the first place. --CBD☎✉12:39, 1 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure whether this is proper wikiquette (sp?), but I have a request that whomever might have something to contribute come on over to the List of publications in biology, a page that needs some serious help. Since there are so many different sub-disciplines in biology, the more people who have a glance and add what publications they know have been influential, the better.
-Safay18:26, 21 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
"subsp." is just shorthand for "an unspecified subspecies" (so shouldn't be in italics). I'd guess a google search ["Alvord cutthroat trout" Oncorhynchus] ought to supply the relevant subspecies names without too much difficulty - MPF16:26, 24 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Sorted. The two ones tagged "subsp." are both subspecies which have not been formally described, so they don't have trinomials yet. The name Salmo clarki macdonaldi is an old synonym from before the genus Oncorhynchus was split off from Salmo. - MPF17:11, 24 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Have you any other ideas where I could go to get them identified? I kinda want to put one up on FPC and can't without naming it properly --Fir000221:46, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]