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@Skitash, @Makeandtoss, is there additional details that Arabic sources can add to this? VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 03:32, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] This article outlines the reactions of Arab states to this attack. I'll add it to the article in a bit. Skitash (talk) 11:12, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This seems like a duplicate article - there is a far more complete article here: 2024 Al-Tabin school massacre. Is there any reason to keep both? Smallangryplanet (talk) 10:51, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This one was created first, the other should be redirected here. Copy any necessary material over and start an RM for a title change if desired. Selfstudier (talk) 11:28, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Vice regent: Before there is trouble :) Selfstudier (talk) 11:38, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, sorry, I didn't see that this was created first. I'll start an RM and copy necessary material over. Smallangryplanet (talk) 11:47, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Smallangryplanet, we should have a way of doing this so forks aren't created again. I see you added your article to Timeline of the Israel–Hamas war (13 July 2024 – present). I added mine to Attacks on schools during the Israeli invasion of Gaza.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 11:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Vice regent Before I checked the date I added it to the Attacks... article as well. I can remove it from the timeline and add this one instead looks like this has already been done. By "a way of doing this so forks aren't created again", do you mean something other than an RM? Smallangryplanet (talk) 11:54, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No I meant next time you or I are creating an article. How can we check if it hasn't been created just 10 mins ago? VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 15:31, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This seems to be based more on Wikipedia’s inability to call Israel massacres a “massacre” rather than being created. It should be moved to the “tabieen school massacre” if Wikipedia is actually neutral as it claims, unless calling an event where 100 people including children being blown up a “a massacre” is pov The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 15:42, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@The Great Mule of Eupatoria: I have created a move request, please follow established procedure. @Vice regent I guess the tricky thing is when two articles are created with the same content but different names... maybe searching for the proper noun in question before creating the page (i.e. "Al-Tabaeen") will cover most cases? Especially tough with rapidly developing events like this one. Smallangryplanet (talk) 18:01, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If I’m not mistaken the “al-“ prefix in Arabic is lowercase when transliterated to English, and “Tabaeen” seems to be the more widely used transliteration of the school name The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 18:11, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@The Great Mule of Eupatoria ok! I don't know what that has to do with this conversation. Smallangryplanet (talk) 20:33, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm seeing RS that say 90+, maybe we should lose the earlier 100? Selfstudier (talk) 12:04, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’m seeing Al Tabaeen way more than Al Tabin, and the Arabic name also suggests this is not the best transliteration with an Ayin yih being transliterated in to basically a kasra. nableezy - 14:09, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's an uncontroversial move you can WP:Boldly do.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 15:30, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Every source that can actually label Israel as a perpetrator this refers to it as a massacre. The downplaying by Wikipedia of Israeli atrocities is reaching ridiculous, disgusting, and delusional levels

https://bokra.net/Article-1550371

https://www.aljazeera.net/amp/news/2024/8/10/جثث-متفحمة-وأشلاء-متناثرة-للمصلين

https://www.elnashra.com/news/show/1680457/مواقف-سياسية-ودينية-استنكرت-مجزرة-مدرسة-التابعين-غ?amp=1

https://www.maannews.net/news/2122994.html

https://www.emaratalyoum.com/politics/news/2024-08-10-1.1874249?ot=ot.AMPPageLayout

https://aawsat.com/العالم-العربي/المشرق-العربي/5049218-تنديد-عربي-ودولي-بـمجزرة-الفجر-ذروة-الإرهاب-الإسرائيلي-واستخفاف

The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 15:40, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So WP:ARTICLETITLE can only be based on English sources, unfortunately. But we can still mention a commonly used Arabic name, in bold, in the first name of the article.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 15:51, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have brought up the issue with these English sources, being that there is a clear bias, everything from omitting Israel’s name from the article, putting “Hamas-run” before any mention of Palestinian casualties, and using “Gaza” or “Gazan” as demonyms to avoid acknowledging a Palestinian people, a clear bias exists in all these sources (check Reuters which changed the article name twice to make it more friendly towards Israel) The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 16:53, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It has been proposed in this section that Al-Tabaeen school attack be renamed and moved to Al-Tabaeen school massacre. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use ((subst:requested move)). Do not use ((requested move/dated)) directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

Al-Tabaeen school attack → Al-Tabaeen school massacre – The flowchart on WP:DEATHS makes it clear that as the people are dead -> because of homicide -> not capital punishment -> nobody is convicted, we could go with "Al-Tabaeen school killings", but given the number of people who were killed, I believe massacre is, sadly, appropriate. Foreign ministries across the Arab world have also considered it a massacre, and we refer to other such tragic events - of varying scales - as a massacre (i.e. Bucha massacre, Hoddle Street massacre, Samashki massacre, etc.), so I believe this change is appropriate considering the scale of the incident and the number of dead and wounded as reported by RS within the article. Smallangryplanet (talk) 17:57, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support several sources have described and called this a massacre

https://bokra.net/Article-1550371

https://www.aljazeera.net/amp/news/2024/8/10/جثث-متفحمة-وأشلاء-متناثرة-للمصلين

https://www.elnashra.com/news/show/1680457/مواقف-سياسية-ودينية-استنكرت-مجزرة-مدرسة-التابعين-غ?amp=1

https://www.maannews.net/news/2122994.html

https://www.emaratalyoum.com/politics/news/2024-08-10-1.1874249?ot=ot.AMPPageLayout

https://aawsat.com/العالم-العربي/المشرق-العربي/5049218-تنديد-عربي-ودولي-بـمجزرة-الفجر-ذروة-الإرهاب-الإسرائيلي-واستخفاف

A systemic bias exists within English sources, it is impossible for them to acknowledge a massacre by Israel as such, in some cases even omitting Israel’s responsibility while putting “Hamas-run” next to any mention of civilian casualties The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 18:09, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nomination. Makeandtoss (talk) 19:20, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support - per nomination Durranistan (talk) 20:06, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Skitash (talk) 22:23, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support.. Given the casualties number, especially women and children. 'massacre' is more accurate. Bassimoo7 (talk) 22:32, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Given the number of non-combatants' deaths as well as multiple characterizations as a massacre by various media outlets. Erminwin (talk) 22:55, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Wait until more sources cover this. I agree that RS support Israel's genocidal intentions, but we need to follow wikipedia policy here, and that opposes loaded terms like "massacre" unless it is the WP:COMMONNAME in English language sources.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 00:24, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom Jebiguess (talk) 02:10, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Are we serious? This is an encycloepdia, we are supposed to be neutral. (A) at the moment, the claim of 90+ deaths comes directly from Hamas information office, and is not verified independently in any way. (B) Actual casualities lists published by Palestinian sources following the incident reported 33 deaths by names, of which at least 19 of which are confirmed Hamas and Islamic Jihad militants per Israeli intelligence. ABHammad (talk) 05:09, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So the Hamas information office isn't to be trusted, but Israeli intelligence is? Parabolist (talk) 07:36, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The death toll is widely accepted by many reputable agencies around the world. Not only that some reputable journals have suggested that the death toll given by the Gaza health ministry is actually a minimum as it lists confirmed casualties by name, excluding missing and unaccounted for. Bassimoo7 (talk) 00:32, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Which English-language sources, if any, call this a massacre? BilledMammal (talk) 05:28, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems there aren't many, so instead a vague allegation of systemic bias has been raised. Needless to say, if this were accepted it would be a POV pusher's dream. All manner of citations could be tossed because of, say, "systemic leftist bias in academia".

As a whole cottage industry of partisans for the other side exists to nitpick these same sources, the centrist cliche "if both sides hate you then you must be doing something right" would seem relevant.

Sure, "other tragedies are titled massacre". Lots of others are not.

PrimaPrime (talk) 18:11, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Most western journals are highly biased towards Israel. I think it should be pretty obvious by now. Bassimoo7 (talk) 00:38, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, Hold on, I haven't seen any mainstream outlets referring to this as a massacre. Let's wait and see if that changes. For now, I oppose this. PeleYoetz (talk) 08:39, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support If it's good enough for the EU's Josep Borrell, per the NYT, referring to the recent school attacks, it's good enough for me. "There’s no justification for these massacres."Abdulrahim, Raja; Kim, Victoria; Boxerman, Aaron (August 10, 2024). "Israel Criticized After Strike Kills Scores in Gaza" – via NYTimes.com. Other English language sources also make use of the word and one cannot deny the scale of the civilian killings, acknowledged by all RS. Selfstudier (talk) 11:07, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:RSEDITORIAL

QalasQalas (talk) 15:56, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strongly support --محمود (talk) 20:21, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

"The IDF and Shin Bet released the names of 19 Hamas and PIJ militants that they said were killed in the strike." → "The IDF and Shin Bet released 19 names of people killed in the strike they claimed were Hamas and PIJ militants."

According to ^[1]

I actually encourage y'all to include that this claim is being actively disputed in whatever wording y'all like. Please know that this is not fringe as the IDF framed AJ journalists for example as Hamas militants to justify killing them many times before.— 🧀Cheesedealer ^squeak!⚟ 20:49, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Updated, thank you for flagging. Smallangryplanet (talk) 21:52, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The attack time is currently written as 4:40 AM. Fajr prayer is to be done between first light and sunrise. First light was at 5:38AM and sunrise was at 6:04 AM.

The current revision states the attack happened during the prayer. This seems contradictory 2A0D:6FC2:6510:6D00:65C2:C284:E0C:8961 (talk) 21:12, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The 5:38 and 6:04 times you have written are not the correct times for Fajr locally in Palestine. You can find the times on most prayer time calculators, but Fajr for Gaza falls before 5 am.

https://www.salahtimes.com/palestine/gaza

https://www.edarabia.com/prayer-times-palestine/

https://www.islamicfinder.org/world/palestine/ Tupsharrum (talk) 23:08, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Al Jazeera Anas Al-Sharif is under threat by the IDF spokesperson, and being demonized by Israeli media, for his work on this massacre. I think this merits includion in the entry. The Al Jazeera Network released a public statement in his defense, asking for support from the international community. Other Al Jazeera journalists have been killed by the IDF less than a month ago under unproven allegations that they were militants. This is notable enough for this entry. DanielCarriço2014 (talk) 22:35, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done. I reverted this request once already and idk why you have reposted it. This is not a proper edit request, your first reference says "In the light of the statement made by the Israeli military spokesperson"...what statement? X(twitter) by a non notable person is not a reliable source. That other journalists have been killed has no relevance to this article. Selfstudier (talk) 22:49, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected article at Al-Tabaeen school attack. (edit · history · last · links · protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the ((EEp)) template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

I suggest replacing The current map in the infobox with one of the following images, whichever you like.

— 🧀Cheesedealer ^squeak!⚟ 02:30, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First it is during the immediate aftermath and more visceral The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 04:07, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]