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Constitution Party of Oregon was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 2 August 2019 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Constitution Party (United States). The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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The contents of the Constitution Party (United States) page were merged into Constitution Party (United States) on March 15, 2014 and it now redirects there. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history. |
There is a lot of information that may be useful, properly organized, but is distributed oddly over the whole work. Lots of editing work to be done. The affiliates table is likely too useful for deletion, but perhaps it should go at the end of the article?
This article also suffers from POV framing and leans heavily on hyperbolic editorials as citations. I just looked up the references for the "far right" label, and they were all polemical or dismissive references rather than an attempt to identify the CP with the views on the wiki "far right" page. So right now this labeling misleadingly suggests that CP has ideological affinities with fascism, hierarchical nationalism, etc. In fact, CP is basically a throwback to 19th century U.S. politics. Right-wing, yes, but not "far" right.
Ideally we could provide a more enlightening introductory paragraph, which doesn't give a good sense of what the party actually stands for. Hopefully I'll get to some of this clean-up in the next few days.Monomakhos (talk) 17:31, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
Right now, the history section gives the impression that the AIP merged with the Constitution Party, which seems not to be accurate. The AIP was the California affiliate with the CP from 1992-2008 and then underwent a dispute over whether to remain so affiliated. Breaking into factions, one side supported Alan Keyes and the American Party in the Presidential campaign rather than supporting CP's Chuck Baldwin. They secured ballot access under the AIP name in California, so arguably the American Party faction has greater claim as *the* AIP. In any case, the issue is disputed, and so probably we should revise the history section to avoid making stronger claims than are warranted. Monomakhos (talk) 19:53, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
I second the criticism above. The author of this article is unclear on the concept of the relation of State Political Parties to National Parties. State parties are affiliated with national parties, they are not PART of national parties, hence the verbs "to absorb" or to "split" are inappropriate to say the least. One view of national parties is that they are coalitions of State parties, associated mainly to address national elections for Congress & the Presidency.
BraveLad (talk) 19:36, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
The very title of this Talk Section exhibits political dyslexia. National parties do not affiliate with State parties, nor do they in most instances "absorb" them. State parties affiliate with national parties, not the reverse. State parties may DISaffiliate from national parties, witness the parting of the American Independent Party of California from the Constitution Party by the affirmative act of affiliating with America's Independent Party which later changed its name to America's Party. This article gets that wrong too.
BraveLad (talk) 19:56, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
Information about older, defunct parties with the same name is irrelevant to this article. Unless there are NPOV citations establishing that these other organizations are related in some way, we should refrain from mentioning them.
Both this page and the Libertarian page both claim to be the third largest parties in America. Since the Libertarian Page has three sources, and this page has only 1, I think we should go with the page with more evidence.99.174.92.174 (talk) 01:15, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
I agree with the sentiment, if not with the conclusion. Surely there must be official records of registered voters for these organizations which can settle which is larger. Actual records should be favoured over more citations. But otherwise I agree, only one of these should be marked as the third-largest. TheSix (talk) 06:31, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Many (most) minor parties have nominating conventions and not primaries, so a vote share is not recorded in Secretaries of State's records, so primary vote may be misleading. Lets look at all possible votes (combining votes cast at primary & general). If you wanted to use vote counts to determine the size of a party, the AIP & Constitution Party garnered ~34,000 primary & ~145,000 general votes over 56 candidates in the 2012 congressional elections [according to the FEC [1] [Note: if you use the fusion ballot results - from NY & Oregon- that total increases to ~335,000 votes over 57 candidates.] It looks like the highest minor party vote getter (by FAR) in the 2012 congressional elections is the Democratic Farmer Labor with 4.1M votes for 26 candidates, though this party is 'affiliated' with the Democratic Party. The next largest party in 3rd party vote share was Libertarian with 2.3M votes over 212 candidates, followed by the Independent Party, Working Families, Conservative Party, Progressive Party...with an AIP / Constitution Party combination (including votes cast on fusion ballots) coming in around the 13th largest vote getter. So... by votes cast in federal contests, AIP/Constitution is assuredly NOT the third largest party.
Oligarchies need oligarchs, so parties have to field candidates to gain power. If one wanted to use the number of candidates fielded to assess party size, the Libertarian Party does a far better job than any other minor party to attract candidates to run under their label.
The 'third largest party' claims the original poster is concerned about seems to be making claims about party identification - a political-sociological concept that is not about ascribing party 'membership' as recorded by a party. The ANES tracks partisan 'identifiers' since 1952, but their measure is focused upon the 2 relevant parties in the US and trying to put them in relation to each other [though the original conceptualization suggested more about identification as a group than ideological content or relational position]. [2]Gallup also does not seem to have enough non-major party identifiers to report from their rolling sample. Other ideas where to look for this public opinion info? CCES? [I am aware of no reliable data to use this metric to determine minor party size]
You could use # of electoral winners as the metric to decide size of party - as is historically used to describe a party system. [DFL:9; Independent:1; American Independent/Constitution:0; LIB:0]. So, in that instance [again], neither page is correct. [DFL & Independent caucus with the Democrats.] You could use vote share in presidential elections (relevant to several advantages -financial, balloting - for the party in coming elections). In the most recent U.S. Presidential election, the Libertarians garnered the most votes in 2012 of any non-major party candidate, but less than 1% of popular vote [3] Gary Johnson garnered 1.2M votes (followed by Jill Stein of the Green Party). Rosenstone, Behr and Lazarus (1996) [4] conclude that the success of third party candidates in the US historically is more a function of candidate quality (name recognition, prior electoral experience) than organizational factors. Further findings point to dissatisfaction with existing parties / trust in govt / scandal are all factors that seem to lead to increases in minor party vote share. So... not about membership size or primary participation. Whether using number of fielded candidates, vote share, count of elected representatives, or some other unspecified metric, discussing which is the third largest party in the US is probably not a worth wasting more time on. They are both very minor parties in a two-party system. Potentate4 (talk) 13:12, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
I've been bothered by the Constitution Party being listed as "Far right" on social issues for a while, not because I am a member of the party or am even sympathetic to its positions on social issues(I'm not- I'm sure Constitutional Party members would condemn many of my raw Libertarian beliefs). Characterizing the party as "Far right" is problematic for several reasons, mainly because there isn't any thing in the platform which someone who is on the right side of the Republican mainstream would disagree with. That the reference cited was from the SPLC, an organization which tends to label almost all committed conservatives as "extreme" or "Far right" is also a problem.
But listing them as simply "right wing" has its own problems as well. The Constitution Party does approach things from a different angle much as the Libertarian Party does(I've heard Libertarians called "right wing" on economic issues and "left wing" on social issues, but that's a gross oversimplification. The best way to describe the views of the Constitution Party might be Paleoconservatism or Right-wing populism. After all, the party was started as a vehicle for Pat Buchanan and he and the press both describes himself using those terms. VictorianMutant(Talk) 10:50, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
If anyone wonders of ideology, the following definitions are listed on the wikipedia article ideology David W. Minar describes six different ways in which the word "ideology" has been used:
As a collection of certain ideas with certain kinds of content, usually normative; As the form or internal logical structure that ideas have within a set; By the role in which ideas play in human-social interaction; By the role that ideas play in the structure of an organization; As meaning, whose purpose is persuasion; and As the locus of social interaction.
For Willard A. Mullins an ideology should be contrasted with the related (but different) issues of utopia and historical myth. An ideology is composed of four basic characteristics:
it must have power over cognition it must be capable of guiding one's evaluations; it must provide guidance towards action; and it must be logically coherent.
Terry Eagleton outlines (more or less in no particular order) some definitions of ideology:[12]
the process of production of meanings, signs and values in social life; a body of ideas characteristic of a particular social group or class; ideas which help to legitimate a dominant political power; false ideas which help to legitimate a dominant political power; systematically distorted communication; that which offers a position for a subject; forms of thought motivated by social interests; identity thinking; socially necessary illusion; the conjuncture of discourse and power; the medium in which conscious social actors make sense of their world; action-oriented sets of beliefs; the confusion of linguistic and phenomenal reality; semiotic closure; the indispensable medium in which individuals live out their relations to a social structure; the process whereby social life is converted to a natural reality.
173.15.73.108 (talk) 22:08, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
If we accept, for the sake of argument, your claim that the listing was "Policies, concepts and generic phrases, not ideologies", where do policies like Isolationism and Protectionism gain legitimacy? 173.15.73.108 (talk) 13:52, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
This is a conservative party and conservative parties are labeled center right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.95.129.245 (talk) 09:31, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
Some people keep changing 'right wing' to 'far right'. We can discuss this here and try to reach a consensus. I don't believe the Constitution Party to be far-right as they do not openly advocate oppression against any groups of people. They also do not embrace ideas like the third position, racialism, which are common among far-right parties like the American Third Position Party or the National Socialist Movement (United States). The Constitution Party also had a prominent black member, Alan Keyes, for a short period of time. --Jay942942 (talk) 21:04, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
i'm quite certain the constitution party is a christian supremacist party. is that not far right?50.82.219.80 (talk) 23:54, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
Just out of curiosity, where is it specifically described as far right and not right wing? Redtread95 (talk) 21:50, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
Far Right was removed. The Party fits ZERO of the traits as listed in the Wikipedia Far Right. 173.15.73.108 (talk) 00:08, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:37, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
I suggest adding the presidential ticket (names) to the table of Election Results for President. (I would still retain the "Presidential tickets" section, but this could also be done by merging the two.) Tripodics (talk) 15:08, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
I see there is was a discussion over 6 years ago with editors trying to argue over whether or not this party is theocratic. Again, that is a misunderstanding of how Wikipedia should work. We can, and should, say that the CP and its predecessor have been described as theocratic. I note that one of its affiliates, the U.S. Taxpayers Party of Michigan, is evidently committed to the principles of Biblical law. Dougweller (talk) 18:57, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
The Constitution Party is unlike other political parties in that it has a bottom up rather than a top down organization. Per it's national bylaws, each state organization is regarded as an independent affiliate. In fact, each state party must submit a signed document to the national organization every four years before their presidential nominating convention pledging their fidelity to national party principles and affirming that they have a duly elected organization with their own state bylaws and depository bank account. Other than that, they are completely on their own and do not receive any financial support or direction from the national organization. This is why some state affiliates do not identify themselves with the "Constitution Party" name even though they send committeemen and delegates to national meetings and conventions and vote on internal national party policies. Thus, the states are free to take independent positions and actions on issues where the national has not yet stated any. It is for this reason that yesterday's proposed Wikipedia page merger (and by who's authority, anyway) is completely out of order. Merging of the state pages will muddy all of the individual state party histories and just add confusion to the subject - SOMETHING WHICH IS 180 DEGREES COMPLETELY OPPOSITE OF WIKIPEDIA'S STATED OBJECTIVES. - Lexington62 (talk) 14:16, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
If we unmark this for merge i will keep this page active. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyler Ricks (talk • contribs) 23:19, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
I live in the state and well knowledgeable about all political parties in Idaho. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyler Ricks (talk • contribs) 17:58, 5 March 2014 (UTC) Also Im talking about the Idaho CP party not the Alabama one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyler Ricks (talk • contribs) 20:24, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Can someone explain to me why it was somehow decided to use a shade of violet/purple (#A356DE) as the color for the Constitution Party? I can't see any logical reason why a shade of violet would be used for a right-wing Christian party. Violet is a feminine color associated perhaps with the LGBT community and left-wing social justice movements. I think it would make most logical sense to use a shade of beige like #D2B48C for the Constitution Party- the color of the parchment of the U.S. Constitution, and a color that better reflects the stoic conservatism of the Constitution Party. The official colors of the Constitution Party are red, white, and blue- I can't find any evidence whatsoever that the Constitution Party identifies "purple" as its color, other than an unsourced claim on Wikipedia itself claiming that purple is its "customary" color; there is nothing "purple" on the Constitution Party website. I think the color used for the Constitution Party should be changed to better reflect the party and its values. Purple does NOT fit the Constitution Party. A shade of beige resembling the parchment of the U.S. Constitution would be a much better fit for the Constitution Party. Inqvisitor (talk) 00:05, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
I concur with this sentiment. Either Beige, as suggested, or Orange. Websites like Ballotpedia.org frequently use Orange or shades of Orange for the Constitution Party and the Conservative Party of New York.
The info box on Ballotpedia uses Orange: https://ballotpedia.org/Constitution_Party For example, the Constitution Party candidate gets an Orange icon here: https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_House_of_Representatives_election_in_Wyoming,_2016 73.150.184.160 (talk) 00:51, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
Regarding the use of "theocracy" in the lead: I did a quick search and the cited article was the only news article I saw that called the party a theocracy. Admittedly, the search wasn't overly in-depth. If there are more reliable sources that call it that, I'd be happy to look at them and see if my position should change, but as it stands, I think the term is very loaded and doesn't belong in the first sentence of the lead based on a single article. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:01, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
We now have the party called a conservative party with a source that says
"Another far-right organization with whom the AIP has long been aligned is Howard Phillips’ militia-minded Constitution Party. The AIP has been listed as the Constitution Party’s state affiliate since the late 1990s, and it has endorsed the Constitution Party’s presidential candidates (Michael Peroutka and Chuck Baldwin) in the past two elections.
The Constitution Party boasts an openly theocratic platform that reads, “It is our goal to limit the federal government to its delegated, enumerated, Constitutional functions and to restore American jurisprudence to its original Biblical common-law foundations.”
I'm sure there are sources that call it conservative, but there are also sources that call it right-wing - do people seriously see it as some equivalent to the Republican Party? The Republicans are conservative - isn't this group to the right, as many sources say? Dougweller (talk) 20:53, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
Niteshift36, my apologies. Although I do try my best to find sources myself. I've removed the NPOV tag. In fact, I've been confused by the fact there is a lot about a party with this name which I don' think we've written about, one that Carto was involved with. Eg[[2] and others.
The lead used to read: The Constitution Party is a right-wing political party in the United States, also described as being on the far right.[5][6][7][8][9]
There was also:
Its website states that "The goal of the Constitution Party is to restore American jurisprudence to its Biblical foundations and to limit the federal government to its Constitutional boundaries."[10] This has led to its being described as a theocratic party, as was its predecessor.[11][12]
Can we go through those sources and agree what we can use and how? Dougweller (talk) 13:32, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
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OR Books is one of those things where you have to make case by case decisions, as some of its authors look pretty good. I think we can say it is decribed as right wing by Blumenthal and the SPLC, but not in the first paragraph.
How is "right-wing" a pejorative? Calling a party left, center, or right is a common manner of categorizing groups in political science. Mics 777 (talk) 21:35, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
Categorizing any political party as "right-wing" or "theocratic" has nothing to do with how the group is referred to regularly. They're political science terms and are quite neutral. Any perceived negative meanings just have to do with personal value judgments and depend on the reader; e.g., the government of Iran would happily call itself a theocracy, but in the U.S. or U.K., we often condemn such governments. Mics 777 (talk) 21:42, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
"The CPNV is not affiliated with any national party."[4] - if they say so, we should believe it. Dougweller (talk) 13:15, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
We have had the following apply at different times over the past month:
I would like to find some consensus before an edit war breaks out. Now the sources, all of them, refer to the party as "far right". A while back I listed 'right wing' with 'far right' and added a citation needed to the right wing statement. This would seem to work for the time being. If anyone wants the party's position to be listed as just right wing, we will need to see sources. If there are problems with the sources let's discuss it. However, the current sources used don't label them 'right wing' and the article should reflect this. I'm open to other ideas, but simply ignoring the sources isn't one of them. AlexanderLevian (talk) 17:19, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
AlexanderLevian says that "political positions in info boxes for political parties in the United States are in alphabetical order", but that is not true. As with most political parties in the world, ideologies are listed by priority or logical order. In fact, it would be quite strange to have "Fiscal conservatism" or "Laissez-faire" before "Libertarianism" in the Libertarian Party's infobox. Republican and Democratic ideologies reflect both a logical and an alphabetic order. --Checco (talk) 12:32, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
No "major party" starts with criticism in the opening section. This has no sense to an equitable format via an unbaised journal. Will be removing such text and reformatting to place such discussion after the identification, unless there are good answers given as to why such should stay in the opening. 173.15.73.108 (talk) 20:45, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
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Please make the following changes in the lead:
2001:BB6:4713:4858:4191:F852:ABEE:12EC (talk) 14:55, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
It seems that the candidate in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_Senate_election_in_Idaho got the best result in a senate race. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.152.207.85 (talk) 22:33, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
Please change "Tancredo's New Home In The Constitution Party: A Paleoconservative Group" to "Tancredo's New Home In The Constitution Party: A Religious, Paleoconservative Group" in the references, the term "religious," was removed from the reference article title in an apparent WP:POV edit. 2001:8003:34A3:800:7189:687C:C16E:93B5 (talk) 07:40, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
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Umbrella12 (talk) 02:48, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
Hello, The reasoning for my wish to have this specific article undeleted is because circumstances revolving around the state-affiliated party had changed. At the time the deletion process was occurring, the Constitution Party of North Carolina didn't have ballot access at that point. It wouldn't be until 2018 that they would have ballot access in the state. Furthermore, there wasn't any information that made the state-affiliated party distinct from the national party at the time. I want to be able to share that information that has developed since then in its own wikipedia page. Hope you respond soon, thanks for taking the time to read this.
I know I've said this before, but this where I stand right now. I was told to bring this discussion here to see if it is possible to unmerge the articles. Average Ninja (talk) 14:10, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
Hello, The reasoning for my wish to have this specific article undeleted is because circumstances revolving around the state-affiliated party had changed. At the time the deletion process was occurring, the Constitution Party of North Carolina didn't have ballot access at that point. It wouldn't be until 2018 that they would have ballot access in the state. Furthermore, there wasn't any information that made the state-affiliated party distinct from the national party at the time. I want to be able to share that information that has developed since then in its own wikipedia page. Hope you respond soon, thanks for taking the time to read this.
Willisio (talk) 16:53, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Sigh I understand this is Wikipedia so there’s a massive bias but they are only opposed to illegal immigration not giving every illegal immigrant free citizenship doesn’t mean your against ALL immigration in general 50.159.11.159 (talk) 00:53, 7 March 2024 (UTC)