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First, good news. It is a well-referenced article with no stubby sections. However, I'm having problems with the non-tornadic events section, which seems to be missing a section/paragraph which explains the cause of the non-tornadic (severe?) events themselves. If these events are due to a squall line, explain the motion/movement of the squall line which caused this damage. If it was merely due to gradient winds from a strong extratropical cyclone, say so. Either way, the non-tornadic events don't seem to be listed in sequence, and they jump around the eastern United States haphazardly. Thegreatdr (talk) 12:11, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That might be useful ;) I'll see what I can do later today in regards to the cause of the winds. As for the jumping around states, what order should they be put in? Cyclonebiskit15:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Much better. When you say "a bow echo north of the squall line," do you mean on the northern portion of the squall line? It would be rare indeed if a severe thunderstorm formed in the immediate wake of a squall line, where the atmosphere is a bit more stable. Thegreatdr (talk) 23:22, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to add that you should WebCite the severe thunderstorm/tornado watch pages from the NWS, because they will disappear after the year. Showtime2009 (talk) 00:28, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've taken a shot at reorganizing the non-tornadic events section per your suggestion DR. To make it easier, I'll just list the order they're in here to see if it sounds right. Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Missouri, Alabama, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut. Cyclonebiskit15:25, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
How much information should there be for each state? Texas almost has its own paragraph while Indiana and Illinois share a short sentence. Cyclonebiskit15:40, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There is too much info regarding some of these tornadoes. We dont need to know what its wind speed or if it was recorded by a tv station or how much it cost. Can we not stick to what was damaged? Showtime2009 (talk) 18:39, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I put the edmond tornado into a separate section because of that at first but since I couldn't find much more, it didn't really warrant a section but I'm quite confused as to why we can't have a full summary on all the tornadoes in the outbreak and not just the most significant ones. Although they might not kill anyone, they do cause some damage and the people they affect might regard them as the worst tornado they've ever experienced. I'll put the Edmond tornado into its own section again if more information presents itself, otherwise it's probably best to keep it where it is. All in all, in my opinion, it's best to fully cover the subject instead of skimping out on details. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 17:11, 10 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You might as well give it its own section again. There is once again too much information for the infobox and now it looks disproportionate. Not to mention too many sources. Again we just need damage info and not other stuff. Showtime2009 (talk) 19:36, 10 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Then you might as well just give it its own section back. The infoboxes have always been used to state the damage and nothing else. Showtime2009 (talk) 01:58, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I forgot to respond here. I very much disagree with removing useful information from this article to make it "what you think the article should be". The article should fully cover the subject and not skimp out on details. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 23:39, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The first tornado of the outbreak touched down around 2:36 pm CST near Oklahoma City. The 75 yd (69 m) wide tornado tracked for 0.75 miles (1.21 km), damaging several businesses and homes. Two shopping centers were closed for several days due to the severity of the impact. The wall of one restaurant was partially destroyed and a piece of plywood from a small retail building was thrown into the wall of the restaurant. After tracking through mostly rural areas, the tornado lifted around 2:37 pm CST about 2 miles (3.2 km) north-northeast of Wiley Post Airport. Damages from the tornado were estimated at $1 million.[1]
The second tornado to touch down during the outbreak formed at around 2:52 pm CST (2052 UTC)[2] about 3 miles (5 km) north-northwest of Edmond, Oklahoma. The tornado, which its formation was captured live via KOCO-TV's Sky 5 camera, traveled towards the northeast[3] for about 6.5 miles (10 km), crossing into Logan County and dissipating at 3:05 pm CST (2105 UTC). Following a survey by the National Weather Service, the tornado was estimated to have been about 75 yards (70 m) wide and was rated as an EF2.[2] Most of the downtown residences were left without power as the tornado struck the area around 2:59 pm CST (2059 UTC). Ten minutes earlier, tornado sirens were sounded as a tornado warning was issued for the area. Students who were being taken home by bus at the time were immediately taken to the nearest school for shelter.[4] The schools were placed in lockdown for about two hours following the tornado sirens.[5] In Edmond, six homes were destroyed, eight structures received major damage, 51 received minor damage and another 166 structures were affected.[6] Some of the homes damaged by the tornado were estimated to be worth over $1 million.[7] The Oak Tree Golf Club sustained severe damage, with numerous trees being uprooted.[8] Hundreds of trees were uprooted or significantly damaged along the tornado's path.[9] In Oklahoma County, the tornado left an estimated 28,500 people without power.[10] Damages were $1.7 million.
Two homes were damaged, including one that completely lost its roof. It was on the ground for two minutes.[11] Post-storm analysis indicated that the tornado reached EF1 intensity.[12]
Long lived tornado destroyed a barn and an oilfield communications tower. Numerous power lines were downed, leaving 1,586 customers without power in Payne county. Most of the outages were around Oklahoma State Highway 33.[13] Post-storm analysis indicated that the tornado reached EF1 intensity.[14]
Two barns completely destroyed. Debris scattering seems to be consistent with damage caused by a tornado. Four cows were lost and presumed dead due to the tornado.[15]
One house suffered roof damage. Debris blew down a back door and permitted debris to enter the house. Two trees were toppled and a shed was destroyed.[16] Damages from the tornado were estimated at $20,000.[17]
Multi-vortex tornado snapped numerous large trees, some up to 30 inches in diameter.[18] Winds within the tornado were estimated at 95 to 100 miles per hour (153 to 161 km/h). Eye-witnesses of the tornado reported that it crossed the Red River, tracking into Oklahoma; however, the post-storm survey did not confirm this.[19]
A brief tornado, lasting roughly two minutes, caused significant damage to five homes and minor damage to 15 others. The maximum width of the tornado was estimated to be 100 yd (91 m) with winds up to 90 miles per hour (140 km/h). Damages from the tornado were estimated at $750,000.[20]
A barn was destroyed and several metal buildings were damaged or destroyed northwest of Lindale. Several homes sustained roof damage near Mineola.[21] Damages from the tornado were estimated at $300,000.[22][23]
Tornado tracked across the southern end of Springfield. About two dozen houses and businesses were damaged, and several trees and power lines were knocked over,[24] leaving 250 residences without power. Damages from the tornado were estimated at $350,000.[25]
A metal barn was destroyed and part of the frame was removed from the ground. Many trees were damaged.[26] Damages from the tornado were estimated at $150,000.[27]
One person was injured when the tornado pinned him under his car. Up to 50 trees were downed.[28] The tornado was on the ground for about a minute and was up to 75 yards wide.[29] Damages from the tornado were estimated at $50,000.[30]
A 100 foot wide tornado briefly touched down near Muncie. Winds estimated at 100 miles per hour (160 km/h) destroyed one barn and tore the roof off of a house. Damages from the tornado were estimated at $13,000.[31] The tornado traveled for 0.2 miles (0.3 km).[32]
Oh I made an error. Because the stats for the Lone Grove tornado show it only going through three counties, i forgot to revise the path length. It should be 35 miles.
Also regarding text in the article about the tornado ending at 8:00. It should be revised to note that it ended at 7:43 and probably the image of the preliminary track should be removed.[1]Showtime2009 (talk) 08:02, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
^Schlachtenhaufen, Mark (February 17, 2009). "Community connects for cleanup". The Edmond Sun. Retrieved February 23, 2009. ((cite web)): Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)
^Cite error: The named reference EdmondNCDC1 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
I was asked to review this article's alt text. It looks pretty good; I particularly liked the description of the tornado. However, the last two maps need work. Alt text for a map should convey the gist of the useful information conveyed by the map, rather than focus on unimportant details such as the false colors used (please see WP:ALT#Maps). So, the alt text for File:Tornado Watch 10 2009.gif should focus on that strikingly intense straight line of thunderstorms running north-northeast from San Antonio to southwest Missouri, and the alt text for File:02102009 1.radarloop Mineola tornado.gif should cover the striking pattern of an amorphous region moving west and a bit north through the map. Since neither map has a legend that says "thunderstorm" the alt text should not say "thunderstorm"; instead, that sort of interpretation should be in the caption (please see WP:ALT#Verifiability). Eubulides (talk) 17:39, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ruhrfisch comments: I will review this as I would at FAC, here are some suggestions for improvement.
First some general comments - there are several places where units need to be converted to metric - for example in the lead there is ... causing wind and water damage, and dumping six inches of snow in central and eastern Massachusetts. or in the Long Grove tornado section there is Two of the victims, the parents of a 13-year old girl, were killed when the tornado picked the three of them out of their home and threw them 400 feet.[57] as well as One mobile home was thrown 100 yards from its foundation.[51] (This is not a complete list)
Another thing that FAC requires is that all the little details are taken care of and things to be done consistently. So for example in the Spanish Fort area tornado in the table, miles per hour is spelled out Winds within the tornado were estimated at 95 to 100 miles per hour (153 to 160 km/h). but the rest of the article uses mph (for example the very mext tornado in the table The maximum width of the tornado was estimated to be 100 yd (91 m) with winds up to 90 mph (140 km/h).
This might be a WikiProject guideline, but the WP:MOS#Units_of_measurement says In the main text, give the main units as words and use unit symbols or abbreviations for conversions in round brackets....However, where there is consensus to do so, the main units may also be abbreviated in the main text after the first occurrence.
Is it "mid-west" as in This squall line continued to renew its energy as it passed through the mid-west, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, and New England,... or "Midwest" as in The warning included parts of the Deep South, Ohio Valley, Midwest, and Appalachians.
The article covers a lot of geography and there are places where it would help to be clearer which state is being discussed. For example in the Storm development section, the paragraph on the Lone Grove tornado never says it was in Oklahoma. I know it says the state in the lead, but here the previous paragraph ends with tornados in three states In addition to the five Oklahoma tornadoes, three tornadoes struck northern sections of Texas and one tornado hit Springfield, Missouri.[6][7] then follows this with the somewhat vague paragraph starting The most significant tornado, eventually called the Lone Grove Tornado, first touched down in southeast Jefferson County at 6:48 pm CST (00:48 UTC) near the Red River.[5]
The language is not bad, but it tends to be a little choppy and it doesn't flow as well as it could in many places. I will pick one paragraph as an example.
The tornado left devastation across a swath over a half-mile wide. Buildings were reportedly thrown off their slabs and the local chamber of commerce office was flattened. A furniture store and two mobile home parks were also destroyed.[45] One of the mobile home parks contained 40 homes, leaving close to 100 people homeless.[49][50] One mobile home was thrown 100 yards from its foundation.[51] The glass lobby of the UPS building was shattered.[45][49] A total of 114 residences were destroyed by the tornado in Lone Grove.[52]
First sentence - needs conversion factor for half-mile. Also the length of the tornado's path (35 miles (56 km)) is given two paragraphs previously. These two pieces of information seem to me like they belong together. For the rest of the paragraph - it is often useful to go from the general to the specific. If that were the case, I think I would start with the 114 residences destroyed in Lone Grove, then give specifics. The next item could probably be the two mobile home parks destroyed, one of which contained 40 homes and left 100 homeless. Then the mobile home being thrown 100 yards (spell out and conversion needed) could be next (most specific). A nice transition to the next part might be the sentence Buildings were reportedly thrown off their slabs and the local chamber of commerce office was flattened. I might say something like "Throughout Lone Grove buildings were thrown off their slabs; the local chamber of commerce office was flattened. instead. Then the commercial damage could follow - I think I would take the furniture store out of the mobile home parks sentence and put it with other commerical items.
Another place where this approcach would help is in the Aftermath section - part of this is also providing context for the reader - see WP:PCR. So for example in this part of the section A concert featuring Chris Cagle and other local musicians at Heritage Hall in Ardmore raised over $18,000 to benefit Carter County tornado victims.[133][134] Another concert set up by the Salvation Army raised $2,300 more for victims.[134] The Department of Homeland Security offered to assist with the reconstruction of homes and businesses and to support those who were left homeless. President Barack Obama passed along his condolences and best wishes to the victims of the tornado.[127] the first sentence's sources date it to March 13-16, well after the tornado. The second sentence is March 16. The next two sentences are February 11. I can see grouping the federal repsonses together in a paragraph, or doing it chronologically, but this way makes little sense to me.
When I looked at current ref 127 to see the date, I read it. The article says tornado warnings were issued 35 minutes ahead of the tornado in Lone Grove and that people did not seek shleter, perhaps why at least some of the fatalities occurred. I did not see this in the article, but it seems worthy of inclusion.
I would get a copyedit - there are volunteers at WP:PR/V that will help with this.
Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch><>°°20:46, 26 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This mostly has to do with updating refs and removing dead ones, but there are also WAY too many sections with too many paragraph breaks. There are also points where it is overly detailed. ChessEric21:48, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You'll have to bear with me on this as it may take some time to get things up to par. I wrote this almost 14 years ago when I was in a phase of including minute details so it hasn't aged well. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 00:28, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
LOL! It's alright. We all aren't that good in the beginning and I for one, as you've seen with my recent tornado summaries, have trouble with being too detail-oriented. ChessEric12:00, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think that its gotten WAY better. The only question I have is why the impacts from Texas to Louisiana being called West South Central states. ChessEric16:09, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.