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Tout court was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 15 March 2013 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Glossary of French words and expressions in English. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
The introduction claims
There are many words of French origin in English, such as art, collage, competition, force, machine, police, publicity, role, routine, table, and many others which have been and are being Anglicised.
This claim is dubious, bordering on the outright wrong: While these words may all have come to English via French, they are not all of French origin. "Art", e.g., goes back at least to Latin in the similar form "ars" (with a "t" in some conjugated forms, "ars gratia artis", whatnot), "collage" has a Greek root, "competition" is again Latin, ...
In addition, I am far from certain that these words were all even imported from French (but do not rule it out, out of hand): Other roads, e.g. German or Dutch would be conceivable, while some words may have been picked directly from Latin or Greek. (And even those who were not, may have been known in their original form among educated English speakers, as was certainly "ars".)
I would suggest a re-write to either reduce the list to words that are indisputably French or to re-phrase it to speak of words imported from French (again reduced to those who actually took that road).
In addition, it can be argued that the beginning of the introduction is superfluous, and I would not mind seeing it removed or reduced so that we jump directly to the matter of the article. Michael Eriksson (talk) 15:10, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
- - - - - Maybe the author of this introduction meant that, from a historical point of view, many common English words do come from old French, although this dates back to William the Conqueror (1066!). Indeed, I do not see what this has to do with this list, since both language have changed since then. Anyway, being French myself, I am surprised to see so many French words said to be part of common English vocabulary. I usually notice when they are used (even with an awful pronunciation, you can tell French from English :) ). Are the contributors of this page REALLY sure that all are really commonly used words? Elisheva 15:10, 29 june 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.167.91.193 (talk)
"En masse" is a common English phrase that derives from French that is not mentioned in the article -93.97.122.93 (talk) 03:43, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
These days venue is used to represent a location rather than a person, so at least add this definition? Natcarish (talk) 21:24, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, I do not know how to edit the main page, but I wanted to say that "beaucoup" (in the sense of "beaucoup money") is not used only or mainly in New Orleans; it's used all across southern Louisiana (the French, i.e. Cajun/Creole part). I was born and raised in Lake Charles, LA, and it's a phrase I have used and heard used around me all my life. So please remove the emphasis on New Orleans because that really makes no sense. Baton Rouge, Lafayette, and Lake Charles are just as French as NOLA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.112.60.71 (talk) 22:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
From the Trésors de la langue française :
Certaines des 1res attest. (cf. aussi Rec. gén. des Sotties, t. 3, p. 201) indiquent nettement la signif. de cette loc. interj. servant à demander à un inconnu de quel parti il était (A. Thomas ds Romania t. 44, p. 101 à la suite de Clédat ds Rev. de Philol. fr. et prov., t. 9, p. 233, cf. aussi M. Roques ds Romania t. 47, p. 137). L'hyp., plus conforme à la compréhension actuelle de l'expr. interprétant qui vive? « qui est là vivant? y a-t-il âme qui vive? » (A. Jeanroy ds Romania t. 37, pp. 294-296) supposerait que l'interprétation qui transparaît dans les premières attest. soit déjà le résultat d'une fausse étymologie. Fréq. abs. littér.: 53.
The definition is : "Interrogation criée par une sentinelle pour sommer toute personne de se faire reconnaître".. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.66.139.96 (talk) 17:24, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
Make an effort to list items in alphabetical order. French has the same lexical order as English and Wikipedia does not automatically sort.
--UnicornTapestry (talk) 03:58, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
Is there any way to tag photographs so they consistently appear near the term they refer to? Many of the photographs now appear several screenfulls (many dozens of entries) away, and a couple photographs appear to refer to terms that appear to be no longer listed. Hersbruck (talk) 23:05, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Until we get a better definition of what this page is actually for, I think the anonymous's suggested test of "If a child asks what it means, would you say "It means X", or would you say "It's French for X" (or "It means X. It's French")" is a good one. Based on that, I would suggest removing the following:
Having written all those out, it occurs to me that a slightly more inclusive test would be to include words for which "it's French" would be a reasonable response to someone saying "huh - that's a funny spelling!", but even then, a lot of the above should be removed. (Unless we change this article to "English words of French origin that are spelt the same in both languages". But that would be retarded ;) ). Wardog (talk) 10:57, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
I agree, although I don't necessarily agree with all of your examples. I think if a word has an acute or grave accent, it should probably be listed, seeing as they aren't generally used in standard English. I take issue with the selection of some words based on how long they've been used in English. For example, why is "foible" listed? An (admittedly) quick web search shows that it's been in use in English since about 1640, and comes from an obsolete spelling of the French word "faible". If a word that has been used in English for almost 400 years(and isn't even used in modern French in its English spelling) is going to be in the list, we're going to have to add thousands more. English has been absorbing French words since 1066, it's ridiculous to attempt to list all of them. I tend to agree with Wardog's spelling test; i.e. if a word would be read as French by an English speaker and/or French speaker, then it should be in the list. --Phanmo (talk) 20:56, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
A redirect page to this page was tagged for speedy delete due to improper Redirection, however was sorted later. Karthik Nadar (talk) 14:55, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
Is there a process of review for adding words to this page? Off the top of my head:
Old_Wombat (talk) 12:10, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Does table d'hôte belong in section T or in the Not used as such in French section? (Je ne parle pas français.)— Robert Greer (talk) 23:22, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
It's used in French, but has a different meaning if I'm not mistaken. So it should be in the second section? (QuentinB88 (talk) 10:16, 6 August 2013 (UTC))
I agree that c'est la guerre would be a valuable addition. Possibly the others, too. However, I do not have sufficient French skills at this time to add them to the appropriate section of this article. Hersbruck (talk) 23:01, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
What a dreadful mess of an article. Nothing should be included here unless it can be attested in both English and French. Such references should be extremely easy to find in the modern age. I've taken out some of the worst crap from the A-D sections; it would be great if others could lend a hand. --John (talk) 20:35, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
Typing "in lieu" in the search bar took me to this page, yet this page doesn't even have this example. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.7.35 (talk) 19:30, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
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I don't think that "à la mode" has to mean "trendy" when used in French--it could mean the same as the literal (?) translation, as in the Norman tripe dish, Tripes à la mode de Caen. Yes?--Hjal (talk) 05:05, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
It's sometimes used for food like you said, but also used in a more literal way to simply say something (usually clothing) is trendy. "C'est très à la mode!" means it's very trendy, and it's a very common sentence. (QuentinB88 (talk) 10:23, 6 August 2013 (UTC))
'Cologne at that time being under the control of France.' If this means direct political control, it's wrong. Cultural, economic and political ties were strong, and French had become the lingua franca in large parts of Europe. But, at that time, the city was as much under French control as it is now under American control. 130.83.197.163 (talk) 07:48, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Coup d'état should be added, it's French for a blow/strike to the State/Government.
When a government gets overthrown...any thoughts? Cboy619 (talk) 13:03, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
I see from the discussion that there has been quite a bit of discussion about including and removing words. I don't know of **gendarmes** was ever on the list and got the chop at some point, but if that is the case, a photo of **gendarmes** was left in the article. regards, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 19:04, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
The expression chacun à son goût is not used only in English, e.g., it is the title of a song in Franz Lehár's Die lustige Witwe (The Merry Widow). Should the text of Not used as such in French; be more general? Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 13:57, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
Category:French loanwords was taken to CFD, and the result was essentially "delete after putting it into a list". The list is now at Talk:List of French words and phrases used by English speakers/French loanwords; please go there to improve it. Nyttend (talk) 01:29, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Is "marquee" reaaly derived from marquise? Because "marquée" in French (also) means "written" which makes sense in this context... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.231.133.165 (talk) 20:02, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
As a frenchman living in the US, I made a few changes:
- added: amateur, boulevard, chateau, chef, cordon bleu, cuisine
- removed: haute cuisine, nouvelle cuisine
Thanks, Damien
edit: i'm new to this site, can someone tell me why 2 days after half of the words I added were removed????? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.195.66.2 (talk) 18:51, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
Probably because several of them (amateur, boulevard, chef) have been considered standard English words for quite some time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phanmo (talk • contribs) 12:32, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
If "avant la lettre" is an expression, a phrase, on the other hand "baguette" is a word, a term. Since the page contains a list of both French terms and phrases used by English speakers, I don't see why "expressions", ie phrases, should be substituted for "terms and phrases". The title should be "List of French terms and phrases in English". --Elnon (talk) 07:44, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
The phrase "quel dommage" redirects to this page, but is not found in this article. Authors, please restrain yourselves from redirecting when doing so provides no pay-off by ignoring the information sought. Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 15:19, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
To say that ennui means boredom (as in: "Mom! The battery in the TV clicker is dead! I'm bored!!!) is a weak and incomplete definition. It's far more complex an idea. The definition on the ennui page strikes closer to the mark:
"A gripping listlessness or melancholia caused by boredom; depression."
But on the citation page for the word, the meaning that encompasses the draining melancholia, a soul-deep emptiness, and the inability to connect to life is underscored:
1990 — Terry Pratchett, Eric, p 165
Now and again screams of ennui rose from between the potted plants, but mainly there was the terrible numbing silence of the human brain being reduced to cream cheese from the inside out."
1997 — Terrance Dicks, The Eight Doctors, p 256
It was also known as ennui, the megrims, the blues, or the black dog. But whatever the name, the symptoms were always the same: listlessness, boredom, a sense that life was ultimately meaningless and futile, without point or purpose.
Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 15:56, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
Entree evolving to mean the main dish in a meal instead of the first dish is an Americanism. Elsewhere in the English speaking world it retains its French meaning of the first or starter dish. I've corrected the entry to reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.32.105.112 (talk) 02:37, 31 December 2014 (UTC) That may be original research. The "main dish" usage is common in Scotland. Almonaster (talk) 06:08, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Extraconjugal affair between five and seven pm. In French, though it can also mean this, it primarily means any relaxing time with friends between the end of work and the beginning of the marital obligations. As a French native speaker (and deep lover of French language, for that matter), I respectfully disagree: no one in France would ever use/understand it otherwise than in the "extraconjugal affair" meaning.--78.249.192.37 (talk) 02:01, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Added. From the discussion above, I think this belongs in, but others may disagree. What I'm not sure of is whether the term is used in the same sense in French. It is also used as a technical term in the game of bridge, but I didn't think that usage was sufficiently notable for inclusion.Almonaster (talk) 06:08, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Here is a list of redirects to this page from terms that aren't mentioned in the article (from here):
Any ideas how this should be handled? If any of them are worth mentioning again the article they should be, or else alternate redirect targets will have to be found or the redirect deleted. Opencooper (talk) 13:30, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
This has been a legitimate English word for centuries. Read the opening sentences of the lead. This article is NOT about English words of French origin (if it was it would cover half the language for heaven's sake. -Soundofmusicals (talk) 23:36, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
If we are to have a list like this in Wikipedia at all (and I sometimes have my doubts - it MUST be restricted to "French" words and phrases that are sometimes used by English speakers (usually instead of a perfectly good English one really, but that is another question. If you wanted to include English words with a French origin you'd have the equivalent of a very thick dictionary indeed - nearly half of the vocabulary of English is derived from French at some level. Please read the lead paragraphs to the article BEFORE adding examples of English that you have just realised are the same, or spelled the same, or even vaguely resemble French words, or what you imagine are French words. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 12:37, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
This example appears in the "Used in English and French" and "Found only in English." I am unfamiliar with french expressions so I don't know which instance needs to be removed.24.224.230.47 (talk) 17:33, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
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Nothing to do with semantics or word usage, can someone unbold the text for the description, as I have failed to do so. Appreciate it Gelatoarcade (talk) 15:10, 11 October 2020 (UTC)Gelatoarcade
I'm pretty sure description is La description. Most words in french ending in tion are "la" and I asked my dad, who is french and he said it was une or la Alefar (talk) 16:39, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
The redirect FrenchLanguageInEnglish has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 December 21 § FrenchLanguageInEnglish until a consensus is reached. TNstingray (talk) 19:24, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
The redirect Gautier and Garguille has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 December 21 § Gautier and Garguille until a consensus is reached. TNstingray (talk) 19:29, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
There are a few references to "America". It is unclear whether this means the western hemisphere, North America, or the United States. Humpster (talk) 02:38, 24 August 2024 (UTC)