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This whole concept makes so little sense that I question the value of its inclusion in Wikipedia (countries west of Europe's westernmost borders labelled as 'Middle East'??). Is the world at large really taking it sufficiently seriously to justify it being here? Was it actually even put forward officially at the June 2004 G8 summit? I'm finding lots of stuff about plans to introduce to it (mostly coverage along the lines of 'huh?'), but nothing much about it eventually being included. --Oolong 11:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I believe it is inaccurate to say that the term was "invented by the Bush Administration" in 2004. A search of Google Books terms up a number of sources prior to that year, mostly of a similar geopolitical context and especially it seems concerning Central Asia.--Pharos 00:10, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
The exact definition of the boundaries of this region depends on the authors who define it, but I agree this concept of a "greater Middle East" existed before the Bush administration. The same countries, except Pakistan, are discussed as the region "North Africa/Southwest Asia" in Geography: Realms, Regions and Concepts, 8th edition (1997) by H.J. de Blij and Peter O. Muller, a geography textbook for undergraduates in the US. 195.73.22.130 (talk) 22:45, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
As the culture Pakistan is greatly influenced by that of mid east but it is also the origin of indu valley civilization so i want to ask that whether Pakistan is included in mid east or indian sub continent.The fact that balochistan is a part of mid east and punjab and sind are part of subcontinent makes the geographical definition of pakistan a bit harder.also that northern areas and nwfp are part of central asia so its difficult to say whether pakistan is a part of india or ME or CA.. Please any1 guide me on this
Pakistan is a South Asian nation but it exists in a part of the subcontinent that has historically served as a meeting point with the regional cultures and trade of Central Asia and the Middle East. For many in what was historically Persia, Khorasan and Turkestan, the Khyber Pass (now shared between Afghanistan and Pakistan) was the gateway to the land known then as "Hindustan" but now called "India" and (depending on who you ask) Pakistan too. That being said, the main culture of Pakistan, the Urdu-speaking Muslim culture as well as the local Punjabi, Sindhi and Kashmiri cultures are defined as part of the South Asian continuum and the South Asian branch of Islamic civilization. Pashtuns are a group living in the historical border land between South Asia and Central Asia and ethnically closer to the latter yet historically tied to the former due to invasions, trade, cohabitance, and cultural symbiotic exchange. Baluchistan is generally defined as a region located in the borderland area between Central Asia, the Middle East and South Asia. The Baluch themselves are culturally identical to the Baluch in Iran and generally of Middle Eastern stock yet they number about 3-4% of the population. I consider it a South Asian state with cultural overlap, not a Middle Eastern state. In fact I don't really consider Afghanistan, the Baluchistan region or Eastern Iran to be really part of the Middle East either. The distinct cultural history in this part of the world forms (for me) a kind of bloc of its own sandwiched between the ME and the subcontinent, influencing both. I would call this region of "Greater Iranian" culture "South-Central Asia". But I'm not one to re-write geography and borders so there. Afghan Historian (talk) 02:36, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
To all readers. I believe the author of this article made a giant mistake by excluding the true origins of this concept, The Greater Middle East. SecState Rice did not coin the idea of the Greater Middle East (GME), nor did she create its boundaries. If you are truly interested in this concept I recommend you read: Strategic Geography and the Changing Middle East (Carnegie Endowment for International Peace) by Geoffrey Kemp and Robert E. Harkavy. This is a very good book that first coined the idea of extending the geopolitical boundaries of the Middle East. Here you will find the answers to why Pakinstan is included and India excluded. In addition, you will find that the Bush Administration made 'some' political errors in including countries like Bangladesh in their conception of the GME. Shassh —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shassh (talk • contribs) 21:09, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Seems to me that the more general term used for the region is "Middle East", especially for en.wikipedia users... Why are we using the term "Arab World"? -Harmil 18:03, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't think that you (Aucaman) is actually confusing others but rather confusing yourself in replying to criticism. Again, I think you lack some background on the topic and fail to present a coherent argument. Europe does refer to North Africa as a political region, but then again it is because it refers to its immediate periphery. The simplest way to explain the GME is to provide basic information on how the US deals with geopolitics and its principles. These realist, political constructs are for administrative (DoS,DoD) purposes rather than concrete, coherent geographic boundaries.
Recently, the Obama Administration clearly illustrated why India is kept out this geopolitical map, as it submitted to Indian political pressure when the Administration's envoy for the region was not given responsibility over India together with Afghanistan and Pakistan, in effect decoupling the country from regional realities. India's political problems are clearly tied to Pakistan, Kashmir and Afghanistan but it fought strongly against dealing with an American envoy that did not only focus on India's intimate problems.
The concept of 'Arab World' is directly connected to the institution of the Arab League. While the State of Israel stands in the core of the Middle East (the Levant), it is not in the center of the Arab World (again, the Arab League countries).
The criticism over the inclusion of the AfPak region and Central Asia needs to acknowledge two vital countries for the American concept of the Middle East, those are Iran and Turkey. Both of which have extensive interests in the AfPak region, in addition to Israel's relations with countries like India. The natural links of Iran and Turkey with the Arab World, the Levant and the Gulf in particular, allow the US to extend this political construct through the interests of these countries as vital regional partners (in the case of Turkey as a NATO member) and regional threats (in the case of Iran). The idea of the sub-continent is also more European (British) than American. (Shassh) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.225.220.14 (talk) 00:29, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Just for the record, Armenia and Georgia are not Muslim, they are Christian if these criteria were used to make the map or inclusion in the Greater Middle East. Of course, it applies to Israel as well (majority - non-Muslim). It's not a political statement, just FYI. --Atitarev (talk) 03:51, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Caucasus Countries don't belong here---------------
The article listed that is used to support inclusion of the Caucasus states in the Greater Middle East does not do so. It instead mentions that they should be listed as Post-Communist Eastern Europe. The only mention is that some pundits and not the Bush Administration included those countries in the GME. So please remove them from this list. Also, they are not part of Central Asia as depicted in the map. Please also correct the Middle East Article to remove them from there also. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.199.222.243 (talk) 19:54, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
The map is missing the borders for both Eritrea and South Sudan and needs to be updated. Delusion23 (talk) 09:52, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
The part of Turkey that is in the European continent should be colored.
It is funny that Iran is listed under middle east and then here it is calling it one of the "nearby countries". The map also shows Iran and Turkey part of the traditional Middle East and then it defines it as an extension to the Middle East. It simply does not make any sense. It is also necessary to note that the link that reference this does not have any relationship to this too.--Najand (talk) 09:26, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
I had my 14:28, 15 August 2012 revision reverted as it was a "Potentially controversial removal of information; take it to the talk page first, please." So here I am.
How can this be correct: "The Greater Middle East is a political geographic term used since at least 1980 to refer to the traditional Middle East with the addition of several nearby countries, specifically Iran, TURKEY, Afghanistan and Pakistan." Turkey cannot be an addition to the traditional Middle East as it is defined in the Middle East section as already a part of the traditional Middle East. You cannot have it both ways. Unless I have some opposition, I am going to remove Turkey as an addition to the "traditional Middle East". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.172.49.155 (talk) 03:59, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
It makes no sense at all. This is sheer lunacy. The globe shows Ethiopia unified with Eritrea, which ended in the 20th Century. 176.251.212.18 (talk) 20:48, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
Please stop adding / deleting countries for whimsical reasons. I have updated the topic to reflect the group of countries that this phrase was originally coined for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.235.25.103 (talk) 11:00, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Please stop corrupting this page. I see it being mainly done by Washington Prime. Your edits digress from the main topic and are inaccurate. For example, I checked your references and they are not accurate. What you persistently refer to "Brookings Institute" reports are not so. The first source you list is an independent author who was given a grant by the Carnegie Endowment. This is not "Brookings Institute" who coined the term and reported to the U.S. senate and G8 leaders. This article has been fairly consistent for the last many years until your recent edit which totally changed the context of the "Greater Middle East" a few months ago. I dispute the way you keep changing the article for arbitrary reasons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.235.25.103 (talk) 14:08, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Attention user "24.14.205.72": Please stop reverting back to what user "Washinton Prime" was attempting to do to this article a couple of months ago. A dispute resolution was opened for this. Stop vandalising. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.235.180.29 (talk) 04:22, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
Please note, I have left a message for the Wikipedia admin who was briefly involved in this dispute in March so that he is aware of the situation. ~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.235.180.29 (talk) 04:45, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
I strongly disagree of including India in the sphere of Greater Middle East. India has a completely separate culture from the Middle East not to mention the Hindu religion and the ways of thinking. Advil 1:25, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Islam does not equate to Middle East. Lebanon and Syria have many Christians who are also Middle Easterners and non Middle Eastern countries like Indonesia have Muslim populations. 82.42.133.138 (talk) 19:51, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
How is it that Afghanistan & Pakistan are part of the middle east, but not India? Pakistan & Afghanistan were once apart of ancient India, and if nothing else the people of all 3 areas intereacted with each other, shared cultures, and mixed....This article makes no sense.
204.102.210.1 21:43, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
India should be here, India is the second largest Muslim country with a total population of 170 million muslims! It has Muslim architecture like the Taj Mahal and other famous Mosques. We should get a pic of india included, in a light green shade after all, India has a mixed culture with Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Bangladesh, which are are predominantly muslim countries.
No india shouldnt, it has nothing to do with the middle east. Pakistan is the transition zone between the middle east, south asia and central asia. Half the country lies on the Iranian plateau, with the rest on the South Asian and Central Asian. Furthermore, Middle Eastern culture has made imprints in Pakistan throughout history and the region was once ruled as far back as the early 8th century and linked to Syria/Iraq. india's culture and history are quite different and distinct from that of the middle east, and it is rightly not included in the grouping. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.63.74 (talk) 09:55, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
There is no India because it is directly related with Israel , even today at Northern Iraq is under the invasion of USA and his servants Barzani tribe . So many people thing that Barzani family is Kurdish family but no even atinternet you can reach this reality , which reality ? Barzani tribe is not Kurdish tribe they are Jewish with Kurdish language ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.104.134.240 (talk) 01:00, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
India has a huge Muslim population, Muslim architecture and a history of contributing to Muslim history. 82.42.133.138 (talk) 19:54, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Is there any reason why this article does not contain a list of the countries highlighted in/on the map? Including such a list would make the article far more user-friendly and worthwhile. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.132.233.69 (talk) 08:29, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
Here it is:
Afghanistan
Algeria
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Comoros
Djibouti
Georgia
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Libya
Mauritania
Morocco
Pakistan
Somalia
Sudan
Tajikistan
Tunisia
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan
Western Sahara Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic (limited recognition) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.97.136.119 (talk) 05:23, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
come on, the african part goes farther west than westernmost western europe, clearly not what anybody means by 'the middle east', greater or no. vote for deletion of this nonesense article! 109.128.182.182 (talk) 10:09, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Atvica (talk · contribs) has proposed a merge to Arab world, North Africa, Western Asia or Middle East, giving the reason:Poorly defined term; most listed nations are Arab-speaking or have notable arab-minorities; overlaps with other articles.
I had already nominated the article for deletion, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Greater Middle East. There is nothing worth merging and this page should be redirected to Middle_East#Other_definitions_of_the_Middle_East. The countries included by the Bush administration do not fit Arab World or North Africa. – Fayenatic London 17:20, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
I disagree. This defined area needs to stay. Please see book released by Colonel Andrew Bacevich of the U.S. Army titled "America's war on the Greater Middle East" (2016). The map in this article is the same map in the book on Page 2. He defines this specific area as an area of on-going concern pertaining to foreign policy. This area, has a number of collective cultural and political significance. I am reverting to previous version of this article and will debate the deletion of this article. ~AX — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.64.223.111 (talk) 21:47, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
This article has been relatively stable in nature for over 10 years. Please stop redacting this article. A couple of users have started making MASS CHANGES to this article for a couple of weeks. Check the Article History yourselves. I am putting all this down for chronology's sake. ~ AX — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.64.223.111 (talk) 22:08, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
I am taking out the note for a merge of this article into the "Middle East" article in wikipedia. This region is going through fundamental change with the imposed "Sykes-Picot" plan crumbling. Much going on in current news. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.64.223.111 (talk) 07:52, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
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Area | 7,207,575 km2 (2,782,860 sq mi) |
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Population | 371 million (2010)[1] |
Countries | UN member states (16) |
Dependencies | |
Languages | 60 languages
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Time zones | UTC+02:00, UTC+03:00, UTC+03:30, UTC+04:00, UTC+04:30 |
Largest cities | Largest cities: |
Doremon764 (talk) 16:10, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
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