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There are two sections in this article that mention the plane being hit with the rocket. The first mentions one rocket hits while the other misses. Later in the middle of the article, it says two rockets hit the plane. So which is it?192.0.161.157 (talk) 01:16, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
One missile was shot , an actual there was an fighter there hidden , using flight 655 ! Yes iranian fighter was covering it self with flight 655 to bomb uss . But uss detect it, fired missile and pilot escaped missile and the only heated target was 655 ! And how i know this ? Cause i am persian and if u ask and di some deep researches, u will see i am telling the truth ! Daryus89 (talk) 21:51, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
Terrorism and "retaliation" was ruled out, so what does this incident have to do with anything in this article? It is totally unconnected, mentioning it implies some connection. As with many other related articles, I suspect a bias is at work here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.119.140.111 (talk) 22:01, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
"At that time pipe bombs were a common occurrence (over 200 each year) in San Diego County and a largely homegrown threat according to the local sheriff's department". San Diego county experiences over 200 pipe bombing explosions each year? How can this figure possibly be accurate? The source for this claim is a dead link. -- Big Brother 1984 (talk) 20:52, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
Is there anything to the theory that the downing was payback for the taking of the US hostages in 1979? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deceglie (talk • contribs) 15:08, 5 Novemb♦er 2009 (UTC)
I don't believe this was pay back or a military blunder. I worked on U.S. naval avionics systems. If that Commercial plane was transmitting an IFF (Interrogation friend or Foe.) signal? it was doing so for the sole purpose of drawing fire! It is possible that the USS Vincennes was set up. That commercial airliner interrogated a military aircraft! Commercial airlines are only equipped to respond. Not to interrogate.
I'm hoping the sentence above blaming the plane for, uh,... auto-suicide, is masterful satire; but as unsigned, and bearing in mind the number of stern patriots aka 'crazies' on the internet who will fiercely minimze any action of the United States whilst living in abject terror of those opposed to her at any period, let's not go down this road of blaming the victim... Claverhouse (talk) 13:36, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Why is this section so long? Most of the things in there seem to have nothing directly to do with Iran Air Flight 655; the only connection is one assertion made by one guy at the end that it was a retaliation for Iran Air Flight 655. That can be covered with just that paragraph; the rest of the details don't seem to be directly connected to this. --Aquillion (talk) 04:28, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
I believe this should be mentioned in the background events leading up to the shooting down of the Iranian jetliner. The Stark was a USS ship that was hit by exocet missles fired by an Iraqi jet in 1987 in the Persian Gulf. About 37 sailors were killed. I believe the captain of the ship was court marshalled for failure to act. This event changed the US policy in that region and may have contributed to the more aggressive response by the USS Vincennes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.13.92.118 (talk) 14:53, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Where the USS Vincennes was at the time the missile was fired -- whether inside or outside Iranian territorial waters -- is an important detail in this episode. The article currently states that the USS Vincennes was inside Iranian territorial waters at the time. However, no source is cited to support this claim. I therefore suggest tagging that statement with a source-missing-tag until a source is provided to prove this claim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.145.252.101 (talk) 23:33, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
The fact that the Vincennes was inside Iranian territorial waters at the time it launched the missile was explicitly confirmed by Adm, Crowe on Nightline.
Ted Koppel (interviewing). But if I were to ask you today, was the Vincennes in international waters at the time that she shot down the Airbus—
William J. Crowe Jr. Yes, she was.
Ted Koppel. In international waters?
William J. Crowe Jr. No, no, no.
She was in Iran’s territorial waters.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jksonc/docs/ir655-nightline-19920701.html
Futhermore the VIncennes was NOT "Traversing" through Iranian waters rather it entered into Iranian waters after its helo - which had buzzed some Iranian speedboats - drew warning fire. The Capt of the Vincennes then entered into Iranian waters and specifically sought permission to engage the speedboats. The Vincennes was NOT, repeat, NOT engaged in innocent passage through Iranian waters at the time and was not "traversing":
" At about 0940, the Vincennes and Elmer Montgomery crossed the 12-mile line into Iranian territorial waters. There is no mention of this crossing in the unclassified version of the official report of the investigation. According to the investigation report, at 0941 Captain Rogers was given permission to open fire. Note, he was now inside Iranian territorial waters and ready to engage boats that had not fired at him. " SOURCE: http://www.iinavy.org/navalscience.html
The Vincennes helo had buzzed the Iranian speedboats while they were inside Iranian waters too:
"Ted Koppel (voice-over). The Iranian gunboats on that particular day — during their gun battles with the Vincennes the Montgomery and the helicopter from the Vincennes — the Iranian gunboats, during the actual shooting, were in Iranian territorial waters.
Through the Freedom of Information Act, we obtained the testimony of the Vincennes’ own navigator, that his ship had crossed into Iranian waters before she opened fire on the gunboats.
Quote: “I relayed down to the Tactical Action Officer at some point — I’m not sure if it was when we crossed the 12-nautical-mile limit or not — that we are now inside the 12-nautical-mile point. I did that a couple of times later on, also to let him know that we were still within Iranian territorial waters.”End quote.
SOURCE: Nightline Sea of Lies interview transcript copy located at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jksonc/docs/ir655-nightline-19920701.html
Here is my proposed new lede, trying to be more high level and avoid trivia. Will source it appropriately. Please any comments or questions? LoveUxoxo (talk) 08:29, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
Iran Air Flight 655 (IR655), an Airbus A300B2, was shot down over the Strait of Hormuz by two surface-to-air missiles fired from the U.S. Navy ship USS Vincennes on July 3, 1988, about 7 minutes after takeoff. All 290 on board were killed and the aircraft was destroyed. IR655 was a scheduled international passenger flight from Bandar Abbas, Iran, to Dubai, United Arab Emirates.
The Vincennes was participating in Operation Earnest Will, protecting Kuwaiti oil tankers from Iranian attacks during the Iran–Iraq War. According to the U.S. Navy investigation, the Vincennes, while engaged in combat with Iranian gunboats, misidentified the airliner for an attacking F-14 fighter jet and fired in self-defence. The Iranian government has maintained that the Vincennes intentionally shot down IR655. Other reports and analyses have criticized the Captain of the Vincennes for being over-aggressive, and the crew for not correctly identifying the approaching aircraft as civilian, not military, when they had the ability to do so.
In February 1996 the United States agreed at the International Court of Justice to pay US$ 61.8 million in compensation to the families of the 248 Iranians killed in the shoot-down. Further compensation was paid for the 38 non-Iranian deaths. The payment was characterized by the United States as being on an ex gratia basis, with the United States not accepting liability or legal responsibility for what happened.
Hi, I have never contributed to a wiki page before but my dad thinks this event has happend in 1987, instead of 1988. He remembers being on his honeymoon when he saw pictuers of the crash while visiting the Pentagon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.194.221.138 (talk) 18:12, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
The article states that there were 290 people on board of whom 38 were non Iranian. How come this doesn't tally when the 254 Iranian Nationals are added? --87.114.3.129 (talk) 18:27, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Should the list not be 254 of Iranian Nationality and 36 non Iranians. --87.114.3.129 (talk) 19:11, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
For no good reason, I was interested in what happened to the skipper of the US ship after the shoot-down. Oddly, the article does not simply state his name. Was this done on purpose after much discussion by you Smart People, or is it simply an oversight? Paul, in Saudi (talk) 10:28, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
WhisperToMe (talk) 20:21, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
I read this article a year or so ago (maybe longer--don't remember exactly) and it seemed balanced, neutral, and factual. I was surprised when I re-read it today and found a lot of parts of it have been moved around and changed to have an angrier, accusatory tone, with some subtle changes to include inflammatory terms. An example of this is use of the simplistic phrase "US missiles" in the lead sentence, instead of more accurately saying (at the very least) "surface-to-air missiles fired by a U.S. Navy warship." Also the name of the section "The shooting down of Flight 665"--while not factually incorrect (though grammatically questionable)--seems to be unnecessarily grandiose. The article also fails to make much mention of the international situation and U.S. tensions with Iran at the time, as well as the preceding and ongoing naval operations and chain of events that led up to this day. I think the bigger picture sheds more light on how such a thing could happen, and merits inclusion in this article.
There are plenty of sources of information on this incident. It was a stupid, inexcusable mistake by the U.S. Navy, a product of a set of bad circumstances and exacerbated by a captain with an aggressive personality and other problems (all these things discussed in this article's sources). However, there is nothing, anywhere--no source whatsoever--showing that the U.S. Navy deliberately, intentionally, shot down an airliner full of civilians, or did so at the behest of another U.S. government agency or political leader. Any theory or claim to the contrary is unverifiable. As such, these claims, or any insinuations to this effect, have no place in this article (other than to say, obviously, that "the Iranian government claims the U.S. did it intentionally").
I'm concerned that this article has been moving in the direction of giving equal weight to the view that it was an intentional act by the U.S., when that is not, in fact, something that can be demonstrated. I don't want to unilaterally make changes without some discussion, but this is what I think. Darkest tree (talk) 00:15, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
The Iranians did not say the US did it intentionally, thats what Ken Pollack claims. The Irananisn said they didn't think it was intentional only that hte US didn't care enough - in otherwords criminal negligence not deliberate act
Link rot appears to have taken out the History Channel "military blunders" external link, but it does not appear to be archived anywhere else either. Advice? (BTW - my very first wiki edit was to this page tonight.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ottersan (talk • contribs) 10:37, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
I reviewed several posts referencing air transport insidents and don't find mention of the Israeli aerbus shot down during the aforementioned war overthe Mediterranean sea by U.S. Airforce pilot. The incident made all the headlines and press meetings were held for over a week until it was assigned to military investigation and hushed "until further notice". The pilot was reprimanded and after having admitted error for "running" from the war zone during an anxiety attack.. pulling the trigger on the civilian plane before rationalizing that it was only civilian not warcraft.Pres Bush (elder) and Schwarzkopf handled the situation but nothing was ever concluded. My husband was on the plane. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.58.94.216 (talk) 00:43, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
This is probably due to a previous edit; "Lustig" is only partially identified, and only named in the Medals Awarded section. In both cases, only Lustig's surname is used; in one case, he(?) is identified as the "air-warfare coordinator." IMO, "Lustig" should probably be fully identified, by name and rank, on first reference. Again, I imagine an overeager previous editor might have inadvertently sliced out that full identification. 72.0.15.8 (talk) 20:30, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
The article states the aircraft was hit by one of the two SAMs, and then later that both missiles hit. One of these must be wrong. 134.71.68.213 (talk) 22:09, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
That section title reads as if the crew were awarded for the downing of the flight when it is completely unrelated to this event. I would consider either deleting this section, or retitle and rewrite the section. If it is to be rewritten, it should be made clear that the awards were given despite the errors made, rather than for the downing. This article doesn't read like a neutral article, and this section in particular reads like something polemical - for example the source that gave the "quickly and precisely complete the firing procedure" quote used it in a manner that could be called sarcastic, a style that has no place in Wikipedia. The quote should not be used at all here as it has no relevance to this article and was only used in the source as a form of rhetoric. Hzh (talk) 02:15, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
Indeed Bush made the statement on not issuing an apology, but half of the push and pull on this up to the final settlement was during the Clinton administration, which also steadfastly refused to issue an apology either. It it is problematic to only mention Bush not apologizing of the US, when half the legal wrangling went on during Clinton, and the actual settlement occurred during Clinton's time, and Clinton also refused to apologize either.108.18.75.161 (talk) 02:01, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
Had it? Fotoguzzi (talk) 15:44, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
This is the only mention that anyone had thought that the Airbus was diving. Other than this obscure reference, the reader is unaware that the Airbus was thought by the ship's captain to be diving. Fotoguzzi (talk) 15:59, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
I happened to be looking at this article today, and noticed that a reference currently numbered 28 is:
Fogarty, William M. (28 July 1988). "Formal Investigation into the Circumstances Surrounding the Downing of Iran Air Flight 655 on July 3, 198". 93-FOI-0184. Retrieved 31 March 2006.
That cite links a copy of the report which has been annotated, apparently by Charles Judson Harwood Jr.
This web page, apparently associated with Charles Judson Harwood Jr., contains a section headed, "U.S. ambush of Iran Air Flight 655 (July 3 1988, 290 victims)". The annotated copy of the report is linked in the cite to a URL on a subpage of that web page.
Mr. Harwood may or may not be well known; I don't know him and didn't know of him until now. Citing and linking to this copy of the report, especially without prominently explaining the presence of the annotations and profiling their source, appears to violate WP:NPOV. This should be corrected.
I've recently placed a link to an online viewable un-annotated copy of the report in the Further reading section of the article. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 04:13, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Regarding Charles Judson Harwood Jr., after reading his obit again and the comments talking about how he was politically active on the computer, etc, I saw the link there with his photo Parrot man searching for lost bird. It kind of scares me that links to his blog have lasted so long on wikipedia. --Dual Freq (talk) 02:36, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
The Iranian government account section contained a sentence reading as follows:
During the incident, the Vincennes had also covertly entered Iranian territorial waters without first declaring war, while aiding Iraq's 1980–1988 war against Iran.
citing
((cite journal))
: Cite journal requires |journal=
(help)in support.
I had problems with this, including:
I have changed this to read:
During the incident, the Vincennes had entered Iranian territorial waters,[1]: §4.65 and was inside Iranian territorial waters when it launched its missles.[1]: §1.27
citing Islamic Republic of Iran (24 July 1990). "Aerial Incident of 3 July 1988 (Islamic Republic of Iran v. United States of America) – Iranian submission: Part IV B, The shooting down of flight IR 655" (PDF). International Court of Justice. Retrieved 20 January 2007. ((cite journal))
: Cite journal requires |journal=
(help) in support.
I have also inserted "According to Iran, " at the beginning of the paragraph containing this sentence. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:27, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
References
I heard Lloyd Dumas on the radio mentioning that there had been rumors the U.s. might be attacked around the Fourth of July holiday. I assume he mentions this in his book [1]. If this is corroborated it would be interesting to add to the article. -- Beland (talk) 02:41, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
121.5 -> international emergency frequency ../// non actions in a war zone has consequences CorvetteZ51 (talk) 09:57, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
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Here, I have reveerted an anonymous edit which removed the word mistakenly from the summary in the infobox, saying, "Not really, this is probably still disputed".
It seems to me that the "mistakenly" characterization is justified by the cite supported description of the shoot-down and the reactions to it in the article lead section. I do not doubt that some fringe sources espouse the view that the shoot-down was a deliberate act by the U.B., but I see no clarification of that view in the article, nor citation of WP:RS sources to support it. If this reversuion requires discussion, please see WP:BRD. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 04:48, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
I've noticed that this article is using dmy dates according to tag at top. This seems a bit bizarre seeing as it's written in American English (as it should seeing as it concerns a US Navy cruiser) and several of the ref. titles include mdy dates as you would expect. For this reason, does anyone mind if I change the tag to mdy dates and alter the dates in the article accordingly? The article was created by a Puerto Rican and the original did indeed include mdy dates, so this must have been changed somewhere along the way but I can't really see why.
Also, @Deeday-UK: how do you get your edit summary to say →top when you're working on the lead section? Mine just stays blank when I click Edit source at the top. Thanks, Rodney Baggins (talk) 12:54, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
@Rodney Baggins: I'm not sure about the rationale behind some of your latest changes regarding image sizing. My understanding of MOS:IMGSIZE is that, as long as the size is not given in px, then pictures are automatically scaled to whatever the user set as preferred size. Scaling up or down with upright= is generally needed only for images that are horizontally or vertically stretched, with the idea of giving the article an overall balanced visual appearance (or enhance fine detail, if appropriate). For example, this picture:
is roughly square, so would not normally need any further scaling, but I see you set upright=0.8, which makes it noticeably smaller than the surrounding pictures. Another example:
This one is slightly stretched horizontally, so if anything it should be up-scaled to some factor greater than 1 (although it's hardly necessary), yet you set it to upright=0.9, which makes it look tiny. Does all of the above make sense? --Deeday-UK (talk) 11:41, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
@Mandruss: Please can you take a look at this conversation – just wondering if you have anything to add. Is picture scaling a futile exercise? Do you know what the base value for a normal user (non-editor) would be? I've noticed that whatever zoom value I use, the images and text shrink or expand by the same amount (obviously) so that captions stay "routed" to their images according to their original setting. Rodney Baggins (talk) 06:10, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
Do you know what the base value for a normal user (non-editor) would be?For all unregistered readers, the base value is 220px. The user preference is 220px upon registration and can be changed to any of seven other values ranging from 120px to 400px. The image width is then determined by multiplying the base value by the
|upright=
value, and the aspect ratio is always kept intact (same as the original image). Thus, a registered reader can enlarge or shrink all thumbnails with a simple change to their user pref, to whatever extent px values have been converted to |upright=
values site-wide. We have a long way to go with that conversion.|upright=
value to specify, and |upright=1
should probably be allowed to default. I'm not clear why you would ask the question, but I certainly don't think scaling is a futile exercise. I think there are good reasons not to use the default size for everything, and it makes sense not to vary the size wildly within an article, but beyond that editor opinions differ widely. Since editor opinions differ widely, there is little site-wide consistency on thumbnail size. My personal opinions stem largely from my personal aesthetic taste, which is obviously, well, personal. My view on captions is that they should be kept concise, limited to about 25 words; anything else should probably find a place in the body text or be omitted. And this is especially important for narrow images, as it looks ridiculous when you have ~15 lines of ~3 words each.|upright=
, but making the caption look pretty is not one of them. --Deeday-UK (talk) 09:13, 14 May 2018 (UTC)According to two New York Times articles, one dated 1988 and one dated 1989, and a LA Times article, dated 1989, the US governments under Reagan and H.W. Bush Administrations did agree to compensating the victims prior to 1996. President Ronald Reagan agreed to compensate the Iranian victims way back in 1988 in order to, as then White House Press Secretary Max Fitzwater put it, keep with "the humanitarian traditions of our nation" (NYT 1988). In 1989 State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said the George H.W. Bush Administration decided to expedite payments to the families of the non-Iranians instead of waiting for the resolution of a Washington-Tehran dispute, which has stymied a U.S. compensation offer for the 250 Iranian victims. He said "In general, the United States has offered to pay $250,000 per full-time wage-earning victim and $100,000 for each of all the other victims" (LATimes 1989). However the US government also said it would not pay Iranian families until the Iranian Government named an "appropriate intermediary" to distribute the money (NYT 1989). The LA Times reported that the lack of diplomatic relations and Iran's refusal to divulge information on the families of the victims caused delays (LATimes 1989).
Sources: https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/12/world/us-compensation-will-be-provided-in-airbus-downing.html
https://www.nytimes.com/1989/07/18/world/us-offers-money-in-iran-air-case.html
http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-18/news/mn-4076_1_united-states
I think this information is important, cause as it currently stands it sounds like the US government opted not to compensate victims till it was brought to the international court 10 years later. Neglecting to mention this story I think paints the then US governments in an unnecessarily negative light.
I also think it might be useful to young scholars and the historically curious if the compensation process be given its own subsection under aftermath, to aid in quick and easy research. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FCC8:A306:1100:B8A3:3B9A:2A18:656E (talk) 04:00, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
@AzureCitizen: Newsweek was specifically mentioned under two aspects, but your summary is missing what was pointed under Identification. Took a look at the research of Entman (p. 14) that the source is talking about:
Graphics helped create a differential distribution of moral empathy. Thus, for example, two weeks in a row the magazines featured detailed drawings of the flight path, chase, and destruction of the KAL plane. They also engaged in a kind of verbal litany, describing and redescribing the shootdown throughout the coverage. Figure 3 shows the graphics from the second weeks issues taking up a full page of Time and about three-fourths of a page in Newsweek. As Figure 4 shows, such details were barely visible in the Iran Air coverage, and only for the first week. There were 239 square inches of graphics showing an exploding KAL plane in the two magazines (including the material in Figures 1 and 3). Johnson (27, p. 36) asserts that the plane probably did not explode or burn when first hit by the missile; none of the recovered wreckage showed fire damage, and at 32,000 feet the air was too thin, he argues, to allow combustion. Also, radar showed that the plane was still in one piece as it fell to the ground. On the other hand, the Iran Air plane was at a relatively low altitude where it could explode and burn. Yet no graphics showed the impact of the missile on the Iran Air plane. There were 18 square inches depicting the Iran Air plane in any guise, most of these filled by a photo of the nose and other wreckage of the jet. All the drawings of the Iranian plane were about one inch square or less. The Newsweek story depicted the actual impact of the American missile on the Iranian plane as a jagged starlike figure. As Figure 4 shows, the illustration implied an explosion, but the passengers’ suffering was reduced in salience, since the picture did not even depict an airplane. Time had no picture of the Iran Air plane, only small lines ending in dots, tracing the intersection of the plane route and the ship-to-air missile-no representation of an explosion, let alone a passenger plane.
The striking difference between a full-page drawing of an exploding KAL plane and a tiny dot representing the Iranian plane offers a powerful demonstration
of how thoroughly the frame suffused the visual dimension and promoted moral evaluation in one case but not the other. This finding also supports the notion that the essence of framing is sizing-making individual idea elements more or less salient, in this case literally by making the KAL but not Iran Air victims’ fate loom visually large in the graphics.
—Pahlevun (talk) 22:51, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
I meant to do this tweak ages ago... I spoke to Bill Litant, Director of Comms at the A&A dept. at MIT and he told me that the slide presentation was not "published in M.I.T.'s Spring 2004 'Aeronautics & Astronautics" as they don't have a publication of that name. It was presented by the graduate students (named on the first slide) on the Aeronautics & Astronautics course when it was run in Spring 2004. So it was a temporary presentation that was given as part of the coursework that year. It has been marked as a potentially unreliable source but I'll leave that to others to decide. I personally quite like it and doubt that MIT would publish it if they had doubts about its accuracy/authenticity, although I agree that some of the material is subjective. But surely any publication, no matter how reliable, is likely to include subjective material when the authors are inclined to make their own deductions about the facts they are presenting? Rodney Baggins (talk) 13:38, 21 July 2018 (UTC)
I believe I found a pic of the actual aircraft if anyone would like to update this page with it. Not my photo so can't upload here apparently. Idk how to do otherwise (e.g. in Wiki commons). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimmy0923 (talk • contribs) 20:23, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
In section "Critique of U.S. media coverage", the paragraph:
"In July 2014, when Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was shot down in Ukraine, some commentators noted the discrepancy of U.S. official position and media coverage of the two similar incidents.[46][57][58]"
needs to go after the paragraph "In a comparative study of the two tragedies ..." as the later is a continuation of the discussion of those two events, not the 2014 one. 71.230.16.111 (talk) 01:38, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Insert info about tracking numbers bug into lead: From: While the F-14s had been supplied to Iran in an air-to-air configuration,[8][9] the Vincennes crew had been briefed that the Iranian F-14s were equipped with air-to-ground ordnance.[10] Vincennes had made ten ...
To: While the F-14s had been supplied to Iran in an air-to-air configuration,[8][9] the Vincennes crew had been briefed that the Iranian F-14s were equipped with air-to-ground ordnance[10]; a design flaw in the Aegis radar software contributed to the mis-identification as an F-14 at the instant of attack.[1] Vincennes had made ten ... 71.230.16.111 (talk) 02:08, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
References
We went from:
The Pentagon initially denied the Iranian claim that the U.S. has shot down the airliner, and declared that information from the fleet indicated it had shot down an attacking Iranian F14, but within hours confirmed it shot down the Airbus.
To:
Pentagon officials initially said Vincennes had shot down an Iranian F-14, but issued a retraction within hours and confirmed Iranian reports that the target was instead a civilian Airbus.
If you look at the source it literally says the the US denied the claim from Iran they shot down the airplane.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752 This page doesn't say, "Iran initially said", they call it denial. I think this page should follow the source we use and do so too. Corn Kernel (talk) 15:52, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
There is a subtle way in which the two incidents differ. With the shoot down of Flight 655, U.S. national authorities reversed themselves within hours when the initial reports from Vincennes personnel that they had shot down an Iranian F-14 changed to reports the U.S. had shot down an airliner; there were no denials in which the U.S. authorities knew they had shot down an airliner but denied it anyway. With the shoot down of Flight 752 in the Iranian Capital, the Iranians continued to deny it for three days when they knew within hours that the IRGC had carried out a shoot down with a Tor-M1. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 15:03, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
There are A LOT of points, many of which lack even a single citation, and several of which are very vague and questionably worded. To draw just one example:
"The radar, for all its sophistication, cannot detect the type or size of the aircraft."
Why include [for all its sophistication], this sounds like really unnecessary congratulating of the US equipment? Likewise that seems like a pretty major factor, why don't we have a citation there or the type of Radar being used?
Ditto for the point on the aircraft ascending instead of descending, why phrase it [people they could trust]? It sounds highly apologetic of the actions of the crew and clearly in this instance they couldn't trust people over their instruments?
While this section of the article is vital, as explaining how the event came to pass is key, the phrasing comes across on many points as less objective and more a specific effort to try to reframe the incident much like US media at the time had done. 2A02:C7F:2246:5600:3CB1:94CA:5673:6868 (talk) 09:22, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:53, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
What is this sentence doing at the end of the 'Nationalities of the victims' section? Zommes (talk) 17:23, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
I was looking at a global climate map and this appears to be the most inhospitable area on Earth by dew point and wet-bulb temperature, which rarely fall below 80F all summer. It seems likely that the heat was impairing the crew's judgement. Octaazacubane (talk) 22:07, 7 August 2024 (UTC)