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The largest and most active Kahanist organization in the world today is the Jewish Task Force (www.jtf.org). It's based in New York City and gets fairly frequent media mentions in America and Israel. There should be some way to mention this without violating POV rules. Otherwise it looks like all Kahanist organizations in the world today are defunct. And this article very unhelpfully provides no way to get further information from this. There's also no mention of Chaim Ben Pesach, who worked closely with Mr. Kahane for almost 20 years. The article as written is very inferior without these two pieces of information! KyZan (talk) 19:50, 12 June 2010 (UTC)KyZan
Just wanted to briefly mention why I edited the caption for Kach's poster. The literal translation is correct, but the sentence 'This time Kahane' does not make sense in English. I added parentheses as follows: 'This time [vote] Kahane.' 58.175.172.156 (talk) 08:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
It should be noted that the inclusion of Kach and Kahane Chai on the State Dept. list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTO) was (Sept. 2004 - January 2005) challenged in a Federal Appelate court. The three judge panel ruled unanimously to uphold the 2003 redesignation of Kach and Kahane Chai and related aliases as a foreign terrorist organization (FTO) in October 2006.
Furthermore, as part of this case, the State Dept. was forced to make public the unclassified portions of its administrative record, that is, the basis for the inclusion of Kach and Kahane Chai and its aliase on its FTO list. The administrative record list numerous articles translated from Hebrew by the FBIS, as well as cables and other documents, listing the names of some individuals involved in Kach and Kahane Chai, and the scope of anti-Arab violence (as well as threats and violence directed at Israeli officials) upon which the designation is based.
I removed the following sentence: "However, no terrorist acts have been proven to be directly attributed to these groups". It is not clear how it relates to the Cave of the Patriarchs: it wasn't a terrorist act? It wasn't proven? It wasn't directly attributed? What is actually the information contents of this sentence? Uffish 15:39, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Well, as no one involved seems to be disscussing the differences that have come up in the edit war, I will get my 2 pence in (I think protecting the page so soon might have been a little heavy handed, but on the other hand Jayjg and 69.221.60.181 aren't talking only reverting each other's edits). "Jewish supremisist" is not the term I would have used, personally, but it seems to me that a group that openly calls for the rejection of democracy, the establishment of a Jewish theocracy and the forced expulsion of all Arabs from the West Bank and Gaza (and probably more if they had their way), calls for a stronger description than "a right-wing Israeli party". Likud is "a right-wing Israeli party". Kach are religious fundamentalists (some on the anti-Zionist left within Israel even describe them as a form of fascist). AW 00:26, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
There is absolutely nothing wrong with openly calling for rejection of current style "democracy." Your so called democracy is responsible for the worst atrocities against the Jewish people in the history of the world. Hitler was a "democratically" elected leader. Hezbollah is a part of the democratically elected Lebanese government. Hamas is democratically elected Arab party and is currently leading the Arab people in the disputed territories. Yet no one seems to mind all them it's only when a Jewish party wants to rise up that is based on Jewish law, ethics and morality that everyone is quick to condemn it and make it illegal and call it a terrorist group.
==> Let's not confuse "democratically elected" and democracy. While democratic elections are a necessary precondition for a legitimate democracy, they are certainly not sufficient by themselves (freedom of speech, separation of legislative and executive powers, equality under law, etc., come to mind, as some of the previous examples show). It also may be acceptable to call for rejection of a democracy "style" (for instance modifying some election laws allowing, for instance, citizens abroad to vote) - it's a different matter to call for the rejection of the democracy itself and replacing it by a religious (Halacha) state (as Kahane wanted). I am making this comment, even though all this is not really relevant to the original subject, because I hear lately this confusion a lot (especially in Europe, where the fact that Hamas was democratically elected is used as equivalent to "Gaza is democratic" and means that Gaza should be treated it as having a legitimate government). Whoever wrote the text above actually buys into this confusion, but uses it in just the opposite way to make (Israeli or any other) democracy potentially not legitimate by association (just as "Hitler's democracy"). Well, for that person's information, even though Hitler was indeed "democratically elected", very quickly the Nazi State (controlled by the Nazi party) stopped being a democracy and became a Fascist State (one of possible government types). I don't know by the way how to define Gaza government (maybe a theocracy?), but it is certainly not a democracy (nor a state), though it was "democratically elected". Lebanon is considered a democracy, even if in my opinion of quite a "different flavor" compared to Israel (and probably not what people from Western Democracies would expect from a democracy). I am an Israeli, by the way. <== [GeorgeBG]
The last sentence should read "Kleiner did not win, but many observers believe that if Marzel had been first on the list, he would have been elected since many religious voters who are supportive of Marzel did not vote for the list because the secularist Kleiner was listed at the top." As it stands it is somewhat unclear.
"…following statements in support of Baruch Goldstein's (himself a Kach member but his action were not out of the oganization but opertated on his own) massacre of Arabs at the Cave of the Patriarchs after his friends were killed by Arab Terrorists."
The statement in parentheses appears to have been written by someone with learning difficulties. Personally, I'm inclined to agree that BG was acting on his own initiative, but any such judgement would be highly speculative in this case. Therefore I will remove the sentence completely (it originally just stated: 'himself a Kach member'). If readers want to know about Baruch Goldstein they can go read the Baruch Goldstein page. Beerathon 13:57, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I'm completely perplexed, but I don't want to start another edit war. If you follow the links back to the Kahane Chai's homepage, what they say is their beliefs doesn't include any of what appears here. I think that much of what has been written in the article is fairly biased, and not based on the careful and impartial research that is standard to Wiki. I could suggest some major changes, but in the interests of the Wiki and true understanding, I'd suggest that people do follow the link and see what Kahane Chai does actually say its beliefs are.
And, as an aside, I knew Dr. Goldstein well, from before he came to Israel. What happened in Hevron in 1994 was so completly, 180 degrees different from his character, that one must ask what would have spurred this act, assuming the popularly accepted events are of any accuracy -- D'n 08:21, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
Under the list of terrorist attacks is the following:
The bits in bold are, I feel, unnecessary commentary which adds little to the factual accuracy of the article. I am therefore removing them. --Black Butterfly 12:02, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm curious as to why Black Butterfly feels the need to suppress contextual information that aids in the understanding of Makhteret's motives. Kuratowski's Ghost 00:38, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Another user changed the title of one section to "alleged terrorist attacks associated with Kahanists". Given the content of that section the addition of the word "alleged" seemed quite unnecessary in that it makes clear the nature of the links. The second point down seems rather, ehm, odd:
Again, the "allegedly" is out of place, as AFAIK the existence of the attacks isn't in question, only their origin (?) and connection to Kach. --Black Butterfly 11:28, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
I can't find an argument on this page for the dispute tag that appears at the top of the article. If no such argument is provided soon, the tag should be removed. --Zerotalk 13:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
The 1984 Supreme Court decision overturning Kach's disqualification to run for election contains quite a bit of information that could be used in the article. It is available on the web in English (and presumably in Hebrew), see footnote 3. --Zerotalk 13:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
From information I have been researching for a school project on terrorism, I have found NO conclusive evidence that Kahane Chai can be considered a Terrorist Organization. They do not kill innocent civilians to benefit in any way. They defend themselves from Islamic Terrorist Groups such as the PLO, Hezbollah, and Hamas. Members of Kahane Chai have committed terrorist acts, but the group has a whole does not appear to have. They also claim that they do no support Terrorism of any kind, and dissuade member from using terrorism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.77.19.102 (talk) 00:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
The article tends to contradict itself, and it lacks citations. From information from various different sources, including books at my local library, I fail to see why Kahane Chai is designated as a terrorist organization. There has been NO proof that the group is responsible for killing innocent people. They have fought in self defense against Hamas and Hezbollah, but the Torah states that a Jew has the right to defend oneself. They are defending themselves, from real terrorists, not being terrorists.
so, the torah states that a jew has the right to defend himself if he is attacked? does a palestinian have the right to defend himself from the attacks from jews in his land? Keltik31 18:34, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
That land belonged to the Jews long before it belonged to the Palestinians. Who's land is it??? The Jew's, as it has been for thousands of years.
You mean 60?
America used to belong tho the native americans before the pikgrims came and did what Israel did that was hundreds of years ago do the native americans have the right to come and force us out of are homes and deny us human rights no and unlike Israel they don't even if the isralies lived there thousands of years ago they don't have the right to persecute people. you just got owned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.70.73.146 (talk) 09:23, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
The land is given to the Jews by G-d, the Lord, creator of the universe -- It was thousands of years ago.
--72.225.204.254 20:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)I agree 100% that Kach and Kahane Chai are not terrorist organizations. All "evidence" presented lacks any substance and is based on the actions of few individuals acting ALONE to defend Israel against the Palestinian terrorists. Kahane Chai and Kach never had any official statement condoning or promoting terrorism. Don't believe me? Go to kahane.org and try to find any statement supporting terrorism! There is NONE WHATSOEVER unless you consider biblical verses terrorism. The same individuals who label Kach as a terrorist organization would not label the PLO a terrorist organization while the PLO blatantly supports murdering innocent men women and children. Kach and Kahane Chai do not issue statement supporting any terrorist activity and all claims that they are a FTO are based on the actions of a few individuals acting alone.
calling the attacks "terrorist" is POV. not alloed here. Keltik31 15:11, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Unfair Anti Kahanist Bias
This article has an very strong and unfair anti Kahanist Bias. There is absolutely no evidence that Kach and Kahane Chai are terrorist organizations. 1- These organizations do not exist anymore. 2- The only remnant of Kahane Chai is Mike Grudufzky, the owner on Kahane.org and he does NOT advocate terrorism at all. Go to kahane.org if you don't believe me. They only talk about Meir Kahane's works, Bible, Jewish Self defense and self defense and activist programs. 3- Baruch Goldstein acted by himself to defend Hebron against a planned Arab massacre by launching a preemptive strike. Even if you think I am crazy, it is obvious that Kach had nothing to do with this event since no one else was arrested for this which proves he acted alone. But the US still classifies kahane.org, which used to be affiliated with Kahane Chai as a "terrorist organization" even though there is no evidence since the Israeli government is afraid of R' Kahane's ideas becoming popular so they try to marginalize them and arrest Kahanist Jews for no reason.
What do sources say about this? Isn't there some "preferred" wording to be used here? I know this hass been discussed before. This effects multiple articles so I am not sure how best to proceed. TIA --Tom 13:20, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
israel's own haaretz publication covers this: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1061172.html
perhaps this merits a mention on this page? 24.190.132.242 (talk) 19:13, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
An anon deleted the claimed derivation for the word Kach: "(Hebrew: כ"ך, an acronym for Kahane LaKnesset (Hebrew: כהנא לכנסת, lit. Kahane to the Knesset))". I suspect anon is quite correct, but now we have no explanation. Everywhere I look, I just see the explanation that כך means "thus", but somewhere there must be an official explanation. Anyone know where? I'm guessing that "thus" was inspired by the Irgun slogan "rak kach" (only thus). Zerotalk 00:11, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
It is not an acronym -- as has been discussed here, it means "thus" and comes from the slogan "only thus." As such, it should be spelled without the gershayim (כך and not כ״ך) as it is on the Hebrew version of the page. Someone with access please make this edit, it really confused me because the spelling implies its an acronym! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gershonmk (talk • contribs) 18:22, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
If this was a political party, shouldnt we explain what their platform was at the time? "Kahanist" doesnt explain much. --Metallurgist (talk) 05:10, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
There seems to be some confusion about the year of Kahane's emigration, with the main article on Kahane and several sources I've seen giving the year as 1971, whereas the current article, using the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs as a source, gives the year as 1969. ← ZScarpia 18:58, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
From the Encyclopaedia Britannica article on Kahane:
← ZScarpia 13:15, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
The book "Brother against Brother" by Ehud Sprinzak, which has a chapter on Kahane, says he emigrated to Israel in September 1971. This is a rather authoritiave book so I think we should adopt it over the MFA web page. Zerotalk 12:20, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
I have once again removed content that uses sources that clearly don't qualify as reliable according to Wikipedia's requirements. The content should not be restored until and unless someone can demonstrate that think-israel.org and ahavat-israel.com qualify as RS for unattributed statements of fact in the narrative voice of the encyclopedia. That is the function of WP:RSN. WP:V compliance is mandatory so in the meantime this content should stay out of the article. If the content is factually accurate and notable it will have been published by sources that unambiguously qualify as RS. Those sources should be cited instead. Sean.hoyland - talk 14:12, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Since Council Decision 2010/386/CFSP of 12 July 2010. (I have insufficient editing rights for semi-protected pages.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Penalist (talk • contribs) 16:06, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
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This has nothing to do with the article, and implies a cause and effect; namely that because of his pamphlets he was killed. In fact, his death was merely for being a Jewish settler, the Palestinians were unaware of who they killed; they just wanted to murder Jews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.60.235.57 (talk) 16:24, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
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I've moved the article from "Kach and Kahane Chai" to "Kach (political party)" for a couple of reasons:
Cheers, Number 57 22:17, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The recently created article of Sicarii (1989) clearly fails criteria for notability set forth in WP:CORPIND. The sourcing in the article consists of WP:PRIMARYNEWS sources from 1989-1991 which cover a police investigation that went no where (a suspect was arrested, released after a few weeks. No charges or trial). In addition there are 4 secondary sources. Lustick-1993, written close to the events, mainly consists of news clippings. Kelly/Maghan is from 1998, uses very flowery language, and devotes a paragraph to the Sicarii - and most of that paragraph is on the historical Sicarii which this alleged group is its namesake (the 1989 group gets 2 sentences that are not related to it being a namesake). Crenshaw/Pimlott-1997 is factually inaccurate (turning a shooting, per multiple NEWSORGs, into a bombing) and devotes a single paragraph to the Sicarii in a section mainly about Kach. Pedahzur/Perliger-2009 is a better source than the 3 previous ones (written well after events, devoted to the topic (Jewish terrorism)) - however it sees fit to devote approx. 1/3 of a paragraph (+ a blurb in the timeline with the 1989 attack saying they claimed responsibility) - [5] - framing the Sicarii as a movement of Kach activists who were protesting the banning of Kach from the 1988 elections. While Sicarii is clearly non-notable, it does seem some content can be salvaged from that article into this one, and that Kach is a suitable merge target per WP:ATD-M. Icewhiz (talk) 07:57, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
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Category:Fascist parties should be removed because there is nothing to support the claim that the party is Fascist. -- 187.58.92.128 (talk) 19:20, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
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Kach and Kahane Chai are designated as a terrorist organisation by the EU[1] - however, the relevant category Category:Organisations designated as terrorist by the European Union has not been applied. Is it possible to apply the cateogry to the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MatryoshkaNL (talk • contribs) 18:35, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
References
Kach is no longer going to be designated as a terrorist group by the US State department, seeing as they never killed anyone. In fact, Meir Kahana was the first terror victim of Al-Qaeda in 1990 when he was killed in New York City. Someone please update the article to reflect this — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:248:500:1AF5:BC7F:2F12:1E1A:3C1E (talk) 02:21, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
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Change the following sentence to show that the US no longer designatess the group as terrorists. See following citations https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/20/us-removes-ultranationalist-israeli-group-from-terror-list and https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-removes-radical-jewish-group-kach-4-others-from-list-of-terror-organizations/
Today, both groups are considered terrorist organisations by Israel,[3] Canada,[4] the European Union,[5] Japan,[6] and the United States.[7] 46.117.204.46 (talk) 15:43, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
Change criticism of islam to islamophobis this is a xenophobic organisation 193.210.167.118 (talk) 16:19, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
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The following change is recommended to provide context into discussed events. Care has been taken to keep phrasing and details neutral.
Change "In 2022, the United States removed the group from its list of terrorist organizations." to "In 2022, the United States removed the group from its list of terrorist organizations, alongside 4 inactive groups.
The citations for the above sentence is a dead link. The following is a suitable replacement: https://www.npr.org/2022/05/16/1099088398/u-s-to-remove-groups-from-foreign-terrorism-blacklist DanielTheManual (talk) 13:21, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
alongside 4 inactive groups" relevant to this sentence? Colonestarrice (talk) 10:22, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
The JDL operated almost exclusively in the U.S. and Canada, and thus does not fulfill the definition of a political paramilitary wing of a political party. Aside from both being founded by Meir Kahane, the groups are fairly different in their goals (one being combatting antisemitism in America, the other being more focused on religious Zionism and anti-Arabism). A. Rosenberg (talk) 18:49, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
It has been proposed in this section that Kach (political party) be renamed and moved to Kach. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use ((subst:requested move)) . Do not use ((requested move/dated)) directly. |
Kach (political party) → Kach – This article is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. PhotographyEdits (talk) 14:00, 23 August 2024 (UTC)