The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus (non-admin closure) ~ Amkgp 💬 15:24, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Kauai → Kauaʻi
• Lanai → Lānaʻi
• Hawaii (island) → Hawaiʻi (island)

– From MOS:HAWAII: Use of the proper diacritics in Hawaiian language words and phrases is important. However, when using the kahakō and ʻokina for a word in article content or title that has both these marks, it is suggested to use both of the characters or neither of them. This is to avoid a misuse of the diacritics that would change the meaning of the word. As with any letter or character, omission of the kahakō or ʻokina in Hawaiian words can change the pronunciation and often alter the meaning of the word in the native Hawaiian language. It may alter a geographical location: for example, Kalaʻe and Ka Lae are different places. Lānaʻi is an island and has some other meanings, while lānai is a covered porch around a house, and lanai means "stiff-backed".

In regard to "Spelling in article titles", MOS:HAWAII states: "Whenever possible, the most common name should be used with the regional spelling and orthography preferred for titles and consistently used when referring to the subject in the body of the article." By this standard, the article should be moved to Kauaʻi, as this is the official name of both the island and county and is used both by USGS and the County website. Similar reasoning applies to Lānaʻi (USGS, Lānaʻi Chamber of Commerce) as well as the fact that the name of this island is used as an example above. The article should not bear a title meaning "stiff-backed". Skyerise (talk) 19:32, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. MOS:HAWAII goes on to state that "Sometimes, Hawaiian related articles may have titles that are not using the regional spelling and orthography. If consensus holds for spelling in the title that ignores the diacritic marks, create a redirect that does." In the case of the inland names themselves, the most common English language spelling is what should be used for the article titles, and I don't think the most common English language spellings use the diacritics. Rreagan007 (talk) 20:02, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support I think the USGS is a reasonable guide here. Use the okina and macron for the islands and other geographic features, but not for the state of Hawaii itself. For proper names based on 'Hawaii', follow usage -- e.g. yes for UH, no for state depts. And never in "Hawaiian". Consider the USGS usage,

Geologic map of the southern flank of Mauna Loa Volcano, Island of Hawaiʻi, Hawaii.

There's also the county govt sites, e.g. County of Kauaʻi, County of Hawaiʻi. — kwami (talk) 20:12, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment kwami reminds me that I failed to include all my reasons. Please also be aware of/consider that the inclusion of the ʻokina is common usage on the Islands, on street signs, government buildings, government websites, and official documents. The removal of the ʻokina is incorrect and is part of a pattern of indigenous suppression which it is inappropriate to continue on Wikipedia, especially at this time. Skyerise (talk) 21:55, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Oppose, at least without further sources offered. The USGS is a good source but it isn't everything. Google news: Kauai shows lots of recent articles, for Kauaʻi shows some articles but mostly from 1-4 weeks ago, indicating substantially fewer sources using this variant. Checking Google Books, things are more split - there do seem to be more Books using Kauai, but of the recent ones many are travel guides and the like, so it's possible that high-quality sources are more likely to use the okina. There's clearly been a shift in usage, but I'm not sure the okina form is dominant yet. As far as Skyerise's last comment, Wikipedia follows trends not sets them - so if the rest of the world changes their usage, as it seems to perhaps be doing, that will change Wikipedia as well. SnowFire (talk) 06:42, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  @SnowFire: GoogleNews isn't a good source, because names tend to get simplified online. We usually check RS print sources instead, and go by the quality of the publication, rather than just a raw count. I'm adding the county sites to my argument, since they use the ʻokina despite being online sites where you might expect ASCII. — kwami (talk) 00:20, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  Newspapers are reliable sources, though, and also printed sources? I disagree on this "simplified online" argument - nobody has any issues with displaying special characters these days, everyone uses UTF-8. If quality is the concern, here's the high-quality The New York Times using "Kauai", no okina, in 2019, not a Travel section or bloggy type article, and I've found other articles in the NY Times archive where okinas are used within the article, but not for the island name. Also, county websites are not that relevant; WP:COMMONNAME / WP:OFFICIALNAME suggests that Wikipedia shouldn't just follow official usage. (I should add in fairness that one of the print books I have on a Hawaiian topic does use okinas for the island names, so I recognize that usage is split here, hence only a weak oppose. But there's clearly a strong current of usage without the okina as well.) SnowFire (talk) 06:17, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 14:20, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose - We should use the English name unless the native name is more common in English. Interstellarity (talk) 14:44, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Moral support. I don't think there are really separate "English" names for the islands. It's not like Venice/Venezia. The so-called "English" names are somewhat-inaccurately-transcribed and -pronounced versions of the Hawaiian names. If we could make them more accurate, that would be better.
  That said, this is a larger discussion. If my argument were accepted, we should also move Oahu and Molokai and I don't know how many other articles. I don't put a lot of stock in cross-article consistency, but the argument I'm making is more generally applicable, so it seems a little dubious to just start applying it on one article. --Trovatore (talk) 19:41, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support all 3, common use on the islands, Hawaii is bilingual and these are the more correct names. The base names will redirect so absolutely no loss to anyone by full orthography. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:26, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. No evidence that the proposed titles are used more commonly than the current titles in reliable sources. Because they aren’t. WP follows usage in reliable sources. We don’t evangelize use of diacritics, nor anything else, on WP. —В²C ☎ 15:28, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]