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Ethiopian-Adal Wars

"Somaliland" is the traditional rival of the Oromo.

Mogadishu is simply a port.

137.59.221.36 (talk)\~\\\\\\12:28, 9 December 2021 (UTC)\\~ 137.59.221.36 (talk) 12:28, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Culture

The "Gaada", "Calendar", "Oromumma", "Social Stratification" where temporarily put in a "Culture" topic. This was done because they were under the "Oromo Dishes" topic. If anyone has a better topic to put those things on, feel free to edit. --Rory Kamau de Alencar Lourinho (talk) 12:47, 24 June 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2804:1054:3015:ECC0:AC51:C0AF:BA1F:D898 (talk) [reply]

Mistake on Oromo population

  1. It says the total Oromo population is 60 million and the citation links to webstie that was written in 1993 and states the population of oromo is 30 million out of the 60 million population of Ethiopia. So one the website is highly irrelavant in this year and it says 30 million not 60 million.
  2. It says the population of Oromo is 55 million in Ethiopia and cites an article whose author claims that the population of oromo is estimated to be 55 million in EAST AFRICA, not ETHIOPIA specifically. The author also doesnt indicate where he has gotten this number from and none of the sources he cited goes further from 2005 but the wiki says the 55 million estimate is from 2021
  3. The same wiki article itself under demographics contradicts the population itself later on by claiming the population of oromo is 37 million and cites a source [17]

WaterManEdit (talk) 12:54, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I had a look at this. I think the Ethnomed source is unclear. It says "The Oromo people constitute the largest ethnic group in Ethiopia, or about 30 million people out of a total population of 60 million". I'm not sure whether means that there are 30 million Oromo people in Ethiopia, and 60 million Oromo people in total, or 30 million Oromo people in Ethiopia and 60 million total inhabitants in Ethiopia. I would lean towards the latter but the Wikipedia article on Ethiopia says there are 114 million inhabitants. I looked for other sources but there is a lot of variation, and few sources which clearly refer to a figure for the total worldwide population.
  • Being and Becoming Oromo (1996) says that data are not reliable but that "there are probably 20 million people [in Africa] whose first language is Oromo and who recognise themselves as Oromo".[1]
  • Encyclopedia of African Peoples (2013) says "estimates ... vary between 2,500,000 and 25,000,000", but I think that just refers to Oromo people in Ethiopia.[2]
  • Crisis and Terror in the Horn of Africa (2017) says "the exact number of Oromo people [in Ethiopia] is unknown and disputed".[3] The author(s) goes on to quote population estimates of 7 to 30 million (in Ethiopia), and adds "clearly, political motives may prompt some to exaggerate or minimise the size of the Oromo population".
  • Helping Familiar Strangers (2022) refers to "an estimated global population of 25 million".[4]
  • Indigenous Peoples (2020) gives a similar figure of 25.4 million, but may not cover diaspora people (refers to Ethiopia, Sudan, Kenya).[5]
  • Human Rights in Ethiopia: Through the Eyes of the Oromo Diaspora (2009) says "It is difficult to gauge the exact number of Oromo migrants worldwide because most statistics are organized by country of origin, not ethnicity".[6]
It looks as if numbers are contentious. There is a Journal of Oromo Studies which looks like a potentially authoritative source, but is not online.
The point about the date of the source doesn't matter, I think - we can give the figure and then the date if necessary, if more recent sources are unavailable.
Tacyarg (talk) 14:00, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
i do not understand the confusion when it comes to this sentence "The Oromo people constitute the largest ethnic group in Ethiopia, or about 30 million people out of a total population of 60 million", First it say the largest in ethiopia, then it it says 30 million out of 60 which means 30/60. The 60 is refering to ethiopia.
So we cant put it in total population bcs it's talking about ethiopia specifically and we cant even use it for oromo population in ethiopia bcs we have a more current source.
I think it is best to remove it completely if we can not find a good source. WaterManEdit (talk) 15:13, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
My confusion is that, if Ethnomed is a reliable source, and I can't see any indication that it isn't, I'm not sure why it would get the population of Ethiopia so wrong, stating 60 million rather than 114 million. That's what makes me wonder whether they mean 60 million Oromo people worldwide. But I agree, if unclear I think we should remove it. Some of the other population figures look unverifiable - the Kenyan figure doesn't match the source (no mention of Oromo people in source; figure of 656,636 may have been achieved by addition but I can't replicate it); the Somalia figure of 87,000 also doesn't match the source, which has 98,000, specifies "the Southern Oromo" and may not be a reliable source; and the Australian reference has no mention of Oromo people. Tacyarg (talk) 15:36, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
the article was written in 1993. The ethiopian population was not 114 million when the source was written. It was actually 53 million according to world bank.
The other sources are also concerning.
We also have another problem. Lostglowlight982 is undoing my change and he is known for eidt war. so perhaps you can make the edit WaterManEdit (talk) 16:08, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Baxter, P.T.W.; Hultin, J.; Triulzi, A. (1996). Being and Becoming Oromo: Historical and Anthropological Enquiries. Nordiska Afrikainstitutet. p. 61. ISBN 978-91-7106-379-3. Retrieved 27 Dec 2022.
  2. ^ The Diagram Group (2013). Encyclopedia of African Peoples. Taylor & Francis. p. 93. ISBN 978-1-135-96334-7. Retrieved 27 Dec 2022.
  3. ^ Toggia, P.; Lauderdale, P. (2017). Crisis and Terror in the Horn of Africa: Autopsy of Democracy, Human Rights and Freedom. Law, Social Change and Development Series. Taylor & Francis. p. 77. ISBN 978-1-351-94744-2. Retrieved 27 Dec 2022.
  4. ^ Olliff, L. (2022). Helping Familiar Strangers: Refugee Diaspora Organizations and Humanitarianism. Worlds in Crisis: Refugees, Asylum, and Forced Migration. Indiana University Press. p. 65. ISBN 978-0-253-06358-8. Retrieved 27 Dec 2022.
  5. ^ Williams, V.R. (2020). Indigenous Peoples: An Encyclopedia of Culture, History, and Threats to Survival [4 volumes]. ABC-CLIO. p. 848. ISBN 978-1-4408-6118-5. Retrieved 27 Dec 2022.
  6. ^ "Human Rights in Ethiopia: Through the Eyes of the Oromo Diaspora" (PDF). The Advocates for Human Rights. 2009. Retrieved 27 December 2022.

Requested move 21 January 2023

– WP:Concise LeenchaOromia (talk) 15:00, 20 January 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). – robertsky (talk) 19:24, 21 January 2023 (UTC) —Requested move of associated dab. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 03:35, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This request needs much more discussion and is unlikely to be "uncontroversial". You have requested a significant change to the well-developed disambiguation page at Oromo. On whether the term "people" should be used in the title of the article for that group, Wikipedia does it both ways: see Kalmyks vs. French people among hundreds of examples. The difference is whether the name is used for a lot of other things as an adjective or signifier, which is the case with "Oromo". ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 15:15, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@LeenchaOromia: I concur with Doomsdayer520. If you wish to pursue this, please open a formal move request that lists moving the dab page as well as the people page. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:27, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@UtherSRG @Doomsdayer520 Based on these comments, I'm not sure if I'm correct in pursuing a move request yet. Should I address some points here and then if you guys feel like the points are valid, then open a formal move request? Or just go directly to making my points on the formal move request LeenchaOromia (talk) 15:05, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The editors have now launched the more formal discussion process, and the comments below indicate that a simple move request is not getting much support. Do not take it personally, as we all start somewhere and Wikipedia has a lot of policies to learn. If there is any confusion or controversy over how the term "Oromo" is used, that could possibly be explained as enhancements to the existing articles, instead of altering their titles. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 16:13, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Lol I'm not taking it personally don't worry lol. Sorry if I gave that impression. Or thanks if you're just simply trying to be proactive. But that won't be an issue with me lol. Everyone brought up valid and completely understandable points that I just simply didn't take into account for reasons that I'll address. Nothing for me to take personally here.
I realize now the formal process was already open below (I'm assuming), but I basically just wasn't sure where I should respond with my thoughts to. Below, or a separate "Formal Process" location. LeenchaOromia (talk) 18:43, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is a pretty important disambiguation page, and I don't think Oromo people would count as a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Anyway, that is up for a proper RM to decide. ~ Eejit43 (talk) 02:45, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Needs a RM, which oppose in advance. The language is equally notable. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:17, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(copied from RM/TR) – robertsky (talk) 19:24, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Ok I see the issue now. So let me just share my perspective once and you guys can determine if it changes your views in any way.
The main point of contention here is the language. So this is how I view it "The Oromo are an ethnic group. They speak the Oromo language". Where Oromo is self-descriptory as the people, and you add "language" to it to describe that you are speaking of their language. It's like saying "Sheryl" and "Sheryl's hand". Amongst Oromo's, or even generally in Ethiopia, using "Oromo" synonymously with the language of Oromo's, is odd. It is like using "Sheryl's hand" synonymously with "Sheryl". Or to give a more direct analogy, it's like calling Arabic, "Arab". "I speak Arab". Saying "I speak Oromo" sounds the same way from an Oromo perspective at least. This oddity is why I erroneously assumed it would be an uncontroversial move.
It is formally called "Afaan Oromo" in the Oromo language. Which directly translates to "The Oromo Language". And informally called "Oromiffa". Also called "Oromic" or "Oromigna" in the Amharic language of Ethiopia.
So the issue now would be how Oromo's reference their language or view the usage of "Oromo" to reference their language vs. the typical way you see how ethnicity is synonymous with language in the western world. German, French, English.
A possible contention I could make to that argument would be the fact that it is also referenced as "The Oromo Language" by multiple sources whereas the people are seemingly most often referenced simply as "The Oromo" in sources.
Looking forward to your thoughts LeenchaOromia (talk) 03:22, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What you're saying about the naming of things in Oromo is probably also how things work in most other languages of the world. But what's relevant here is how things work in English instead: most commonly, the same term is used to refer to both the ethnicity and the language. For example, "The French are mostly found in France" and "French is a Romance language"; it's partly because of this fact that French, like Oromo, is a disambiguation page. – Uanfala (talk) 11:27, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Understandable. How about the "Arab vs Arabic" point I made though LeenchaOromia (talk) 18:41, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The latter point would only be relevant if "Oromo" alone did not refer to the language, which is however not the case. The following are perfectly formed English sentences: "Oromo has the highest number of native speakers in Ethiopia." "The Oromo people are an ethnic group. They speak Oromo." I am aware of the fact that many Oromo prefer to see the language called Afaan Oromo instead of just "Oromo", but in general English usage, the latter still predominates. –Austronesier (talk) 18:51, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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