Please move a page using the merge tab at the top, not simply copying and pasting the article to its new name, and redirecting the old article. This means the edit history for an article is no longer available at its new location. It probably wont matter for North India Cultural Zone as it only has you an an editor so far, but in the future please use the move button. Regards, Matty (talk) 06:51, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for incorporating the different definitions of North India in the article. Keep it up, Sir! --KnowledgeHegemonyPart2 07:04, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your contributions! - Cheers, Mailer Diablo 04:48, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
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The Exceptional Newcomer Award | |
For exhibiting a dedication to WP:NPOV beyond your experience, I hereby present you with the Exceptional Newcomer Award. Show it with pride! KnowledgeHegemonyPart2 14:39, 2 November 2008 (UTC) |
Thank you! I am truly humbled! --Hunnjazal (talk) 20:50, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations, and thank you for your contributions. – RyanCross (talk) 07:19, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
Gatoclass (talk) 02:49, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the excellent job you have done at Atashgah of Baku. *phew* But you ought to reconsider your paragraph that begins with "Given that..." It is both specifically WP:SYNTHesis, and generally WP:OR (it is also factually incorrect). This, like a few other things you've introduced that don't say anything about the site, can't be used in the manner you use them (i.e. drawing conclusions from them). But other this, you've done fine work. Well done. -- Fullstop (talk) 14:02, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Materialscientist (talk) 13:50, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
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The Indian Barnstar of National Merit | |
I award you this barnstar for your excellent contributions to the India-related articles. utcursch | talk 05:36, 6 April 2010 (UTC) |
![]() | On July 27, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Anup Rai, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page. |
The DYK project (nominate) 18:03, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
hi, Indo-aryan is not a race as you try to impose rather it is a language based categorization. What you think Indo-Aryan is all about. Ip certainly has some concern about it and you impose violate NPOV on it. how?? Please explain. why you try to segregate people clubbing them into races while all scholar material always denied of any existence of such race. read Race (classification of humans) before you say indo-aryan is a race. can you please show me any scholarly material which says Indo-Aryan is a race. --Onef9day Talk! 08:32, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Dear Hunnjazal, I am awarding you this barnstar for all the wonderful South Asian related articles that you have contributed to and created. I have added it to your user page. Best of luck! With regards, AnupamTalk 02:44, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
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The Original Barnstar | |
For all the wonderful South Asian related articles that you have contributed to and created. --AnupamTalk 02:44, 23 August 2010 (UTC) |
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The Indian Barnstar of National Merit | |
I award you this barnstar for your excellent contributions to the India-related articles specially Bhand. Onef9day Talk! 23:23, 4 September 2010 (UTC) |
Thank you, Hunnjazal, for starting the new article on Bhoot (ghost). Please be encouraged to expand this article to 1500+ characters long and, if interested, submit it for Wikipedia:Did you know/Halloween 2010. Happy editing! Cheers! --PFHLai (talk) 18:22, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Hi, i am working on article Rajasthani people for some time now. Please review it and suggest what else can be included. Thought it is not yet in good shape but still your review will be great help. --Onef9day Talk! 07:30, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
![]() | On 13 September 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Kulhar, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page. |
The DYK project (nominate) 12:03, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
I was reading the North India article when I found this statement: "Dras is the second coldest inhabited place on the planet." Being very interested in climatology, I went to Dras and looked at the climate data found in that article. Immediately I laughed, as I could, offhand, give dozens of examples of inhabited locations that are significantly colder than Dras, if the climate data found and referenced in that article is correct (these places include Winnipeg, Whitehorse, Yellowknife, Dawson City, Inuvik, Fort Nelson, Iqaluit, High Level, International Falls, Prince Albert, Flin Flon, Moosonee, Schefferville, Fairbanks, Astana, Ulan Bator, Khovd, Irkutsk, Ulan-Ude, Yakutsk, Oymyakon, Verkhoyansk and many others, for example).
I looked through the revision history of the North India article to see who added the statement in question, and I found you. Now, I do not intend for this to be a personal attack, and the statement was added over two years ago, but I am wondering just how in the hell you could possibly think that Dras is the second coldest place in the world? This is obviously not true (at least to me, I realise I know more about climatology than most people), not even close, no matter what Lonely Planet says! I am just very much baffled and mystified about how someone could think this.
Obviously, I have edited the North India article accordingly. Again, this isn't any sort of personal attack; I just had to bring this to your attention. All the best. 1brettsnyder (talk) 04:40, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
Salaam Hunnjazal, I have added some information to the Raksha Bandhan article, which I hope you will take a look it. Best wishes, AnupamTalk 06:42, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
![]() | On 31 October 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Bhoot (ghost), which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page. |
— Rlevse • Talk • 00:02, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Discussion is going on at talk:WikiProject Rajasthan for Merger of Marwaris into Rajasthani people. Please participate. --Onef9day Talk! 08:27, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Hi! i need your help on subject Sufism. I have very little knowledge on this subject. can you please help me in finding reliable sources on the subject. Thanks. --Onef9day Talk! 09:32, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi, just asking you because it seems you may know: Do you know when the schwa syncope phenomenon arose in Hindi? For instance, was it present around 1100, or in the Awadhi of Tulsidas aroudn ? It doesn't exist in Sanskrit, and presumably (I think?) didn't exist in the Prakrit languages of, say, around the sixth century… so there must have been a time when it started. Is something known about this, do you know? (Or is it impossible to trace, because it's not reflected in the script?)
Come to think of it, it seems a good idea to write an article on schwa deletion in Hindi-Urdu... it would be a useful and informative article! Regards, Shreevatsa (talk) 07:49, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Doha is a verse consisting of two lines of 24 instants [mātras] divided into two 'charanas' and six feet as follows: 6+4+3, 6+4+1. The last foot in the first charana must be a tribrach or an iambus, not a trochee. The last syllable of each line must be short. For long, specially in medieval period, it was the most popular and common of all metres, much used by Kabir, Tulsidas and all the major poets of the age.
*
and known gurus (two mātras) with **
and the rest with ?
:suni dasakaṃṭha risāna ati / tehiṃ mana kīnha bicāra। * * * ? ** ? * ** ? * * / ** * * ? ** ? * ** ? rāma dūta kara marauṃ baru / yaha khala rata mala bhāra॥ ** ? ** ? * ? * ** * * / * ? * ? * ? * ? ** ?
?
(one in the second half of the first line) needs to add a matra. This by itself is not sufficient to conclude that all those vowels were pronounced, because in many cases, if those vowels are treated as equivalent to a halant, then it would make the previous syllable a guru, adding one matra if we'd counted the previous syllable as a laghu. But in cases where the previous syllable was already guru, we're forced to treat the schwa as pronounced for the metre to work out: thus we must say that the ठ in दसकंठ, the न in रिसान, the म in राम, the त in दूत were pronounced, as also (because of the "last syllable of each line must be short") the र in बिचार and भार, giving us this (where ?
may either be pronounced, or be deleted and contribute to the previous syllable):suni dasakaṃṭha risāna ati / tehiṃ mana kīnha bicāra। * * * ? ** * * ** * * * / ** * * ? ** ? * ** * rāma dūta kara marauṃ baru / yaha khala rata mala bhāra॥ ** * ** * * ? * ** * * / * ? * ? * ? * ? ** *
Hmmm ... if we write it as it is read today by Hindi-speakers (except in singing voice, when naturally all kinds of liberties are taken, including singing to rhythmic bass accompaniment):
suni daskaṅth risān ati tehiṅ man kīṅh bichār । * * * ** * * *** ** *** * * ** * * ** * rām dūt kar maroṅ baru yeh khal rat mal bhār ॥ *** *** * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * ** *
24 each. Also read in http://books.google.co.in/books?id=zwKmHX37dbIC&pg=PA451 that sometimes only the instants across the entire charan total 24 without any balancing within the subdivisions. The 6/4/3+6/4/1 rule may apply to Maithili and/or Bengali dohas only (unsure about this, though your link quotes it in that connection and it makes sense because there are region-specific practices). Anyway, this example here says that a न with halant is being treated as a vowel nasalization, which is exactly how it is interchangeably written in Modern Hindi anyway. I guess we should look at a halant example of a letter other than न. ṃ and ṅ distinctions do not exist in Hindi (chand bindu, bindu, न with halant are all ṅ) and a म with halant would be fine - it is never nasalized in Modern Hindi. --Hunnjazal (talk) 16:02, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
?
. So what is being dropped here? :-) [To clarify: If रिसान were identical to रिसान् then we'd have "रिसान अति" = रिसान् अति" = "रिसानति", and similarly with राम्दूत् (or रांदूत्), etc., which wouldn't give the right number of matras. So the markings you've shown, which are really the same as what I wrote, indicate that no schwas are really dropped. Or not?] Shreevatsa (talk) 17:52, 8 February 2011 (UTC)I'm using the "let me write this in Latin script as faithfully as I can" method of transcription :-) Hindi is like English in this respect (kind-of but not exactly), and unlike Sanskrit. Look at the रिसान अति = रिसान् अति = रिसानति situation. In Hindi, you're saying: risān əti = risān əti = risānəti. This is fine (kind-of, not really - though not why you would expect). It's like writing: rān alone = rān alone = rānalone. Note that रिसानति and रिसान् अति are (usually) pronounced differently in Hindi though. Both रिसान अति and रिसान् अति, read fast, would be risānəti. In Hindi, रिसानति would be risānti. In Sanskrit, रिसान+अति sandhi would give you risānāti instead. This is also where Hindi is different from British English and more active in deleting schwas: run along is rənəlong but, if you string them together in Hindi, it would become rənlong. American English has some similar tendencies. "Run along now" becomes "Run 'long now".
Back to counting and the question of what is being dropped: there is a big difference between voiceless and silent. The न् in रिसान् isn't really silent because otherwise it would be identical to रिसा. The counting is tracking timing. न् and न seem to take roughly equal time to me. This might also undo our proposed research project, I realize, because this means that matra counting may not get us to an understanding of whether Tulsi had schwa deletion or not :(
Disclaimer to all this is that I still don't have a good hang of guru-laghu counting. I reserve the right to make mistakes in counting, even big really-wrong-in-hindsight mistakes :) --Hunnjazal (talk) 04:04, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
First, I am still learning this counting thing. Second, so maybe not exactly equal, but a halant sound has to count for more than a non-sound, you agree? Non-sound is zero. Guru sounds are 2. Where does that leave halant consonants? As Mr. Spock says "when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth" :-) रिसा रिसू रिसां रिसाँ are 3 each. मिसाल is a simple word that is clearly 4 matras by laghu-guru rules, so they are not equal. Yet मिसाल is pronounced misāl and not misālə (listen to it in any native Hindi reading) and by Sanskrit rules would be rendered मिसाल्. "मिसाल अभी" is misāləbhi (count of 6) but "मिसालभी" becomes misālbhi (schwa syncope - a classic vc_cv example) but guru-laghu rules still make it 6. I am sure about this one, because it is so simple. This may seem odd, but it is decidedly less odd than रिसान/रिसान् and रिसा being equal. I had put in some rhyming examples but realized they're unwieldy because it's too easy to stretch things here and there to make things rhyme or not. --Hunnjazal (talk) 06:30, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Nope, misāl is four. This is exactly how ghazals are analyzed btw - http://gazalkbahane.blogspot.com/2009/02/blog-post_10.html. You're confounding Sanskrit counting with Hindi counting. Remember, schwa syncope is an unconscious process for Hindi speakers, a kind of allophony. As with conditional allophony, in some places a schwa must be used and in others a schwa must be dropped. Native speakers do so unconsciously and correctly, but non-natives are thrown for a loop and natives notice it when it is done incorrectly. It is perceived as a non-native accent and sometimes can interfere with intelligibility. Similar to pen/phen in English. In certain places, it is entirely likely that there is free allophony, i.e. individual preference rules. This is important because it means that Hindi writers will basically perceive consonants with and without schwas as the same phoneme, i.e. not make any attempts to indicate this in writing and likely gloss over the phenomenon in laghu-guru counting too. I already answered your question (with different words) and feel like you totally dodged mine. risānəti has a count of 5 as does risān.ti when it is rendered as रिसानति (I think this is where you're not grokking this). रिसान अति is 6 even though it too is risānəti. But you cannot have your cake and eat it too, which is why I want you to answer my question. No matter how you slice it, the counting is NOT accurately reflecting sounds and timing. Are you claiming it takes as much time to say रिसा as to say रिसान्? If it's not, how can the count be equal if the count were accurately representing timing and pronunciation? I thought we already discussed this before BTW. This is precisely why I wondered "could it be though that this was a formal thing and that actual speech in those days still had schwa deletion." Basically, how do we know these schwas were not injected into a formalized, ritualistic version of Sanskrit (so the counting and the recitation would be aligned) and that natural speech always sounded like HU/Punjabi/Persian/Pashto/English/French and most IE languages sounds like today? BTW I had pulled an example from Doha (poetry) but its totals didn't actually add-up! Clearly, it's not just us who are struggling with this :) --Hunnjazal (talk) 07:23, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
(One) Not annoyed, just ... vigorous :-)
(Two) You asked: is "रिसान अति" is pronounced with a longer duration than risānəti? It's not, because in normal diction रिसान अति itself is pronounced as risānəti, unless you deliberately pause between words. Look at meaningful words in Hindi: "बात असली या नहीं" is bātəslīyānəhīṅ. बात असली presents a similar scenario as रिसान अति - it's a construct that trying to tease out whether a schwa is pronounced at the termination of the first word or not. That final schwa is definitely not pronounced. It isn't bātə'əslī (that would sound really weird and kind of pompous+constipated at the same time :-) and it isn't bātāslī (which would be incomprehensible).
(Three) Just as native English speakers perceive a [p] (instead of the allophonically correct [pʰ]) in pin as a [b], often leading to caricatures of Indian English speakers as saying bin, similarly native Hindi-speakers often perceive an incorrect schwa (pronounced when it should have been deleted) as a sound akin to ā. Caricatures in Hindi media of South Indian speakers ("Malbari" in Pakistan) often center on this: bātə sounds like bātā.
(Four) Counting, ultimately, has an inherent bogusness to it because humans have the ability to stretch/shrink and fit things. That is my point, actually. You're basically agreeing with it. There is no way that रिसा and रिसान् can have the same duration unless you shrink the duration of रिसा in the second word (similar to bee and bean in English). Hindi and Sanskrit counting differ on this score, but both have this essential bogusness built into them. Sorry if that sounds sacrilegious :-)
(Five) My schwa addition hypothesis fits the IE family better than schwa deletion as far as I can tell. How can such a large majority of IE languages lack these schwas consistently across thousands of miles, except for Classical Sanskrit and some languages on the IE-periphery (e.g. Bengali)? Various Sanskrit dialects were once natural speech. It's entirely possible that they lacked many schwas which were formally injected into Classical Sanskrit for reasons of seeking "perfect matching" between writing, speech and poetry. This is speculative, of course, and I have zero intent of putting anything except hard-referenced material in articles. However, I'd like to hear any contesting hypotheses from you that are better than mine :-)
(Six) Schwa deletion rules have not completely been formalized. There is some irregularity to them. It could be that Panini was natural in a subset, but then generalized. BTW, interesting but possibly unrelated point: people in North India usually read Sanskrit with Hindi's schwa deletion rules (or at least partial application of them).
(Seven) Not a clincher by any means but we could look at the treatment of known Persian/Arabic-origin terms in Tulsi's work. For instance, Sankat Mochan has Gharib/Garib in it: काज किये बड़ देवन के तुम, वीर महाप्रभु देखि बिचारो । कौन सो संकट मोर गरीब को, जो तुमसों नहिं जात है टारो ॥ Either he's altered the pronunciation of गरीब or he's intending schwas to be dropped across the board. Again, allophony means that, if Tulsi was dropping schwas, it is quite possible he wouldn't even be consciously aware he was doing it.
(Eight) Please note that there is a difference between stretching a voiceless letter and adding a schwa to it, e.g. try this: 'nnnnnnnnnnnnnnn' is different from 'nəəəəəəəəəəəəə' (the first doesn't really have a vowel).
(Nine) Songs are quite interesting in how they mangle normal language, but I imagine they shy away from making things unintelligible. They probably reveal some linguistic boundaries of what is and isn't permissible - even in accented renditions of a language. Hindi songs can take a lot of liberties, but take a listen to Ye Shaam mastani (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sZg4EUB3IM). shāmməstānī, and not shāməməstānī; similarly dōrkoī (dor koi kheenchey), and not dōrəkoī. shāməməstānī, to most Hindi-speakers would sound like a woman called Sh(y)āmā being referred to. dōrəkoī sounds like dōrākoī, which would still be comprehensible to Hindi-speakers (because dōrā is a legit variant of dōr), but the song would change sense a bit: a dōr is a narrow string while a dōrā is a fatter string. Punjabi speakers will likely conflate dōrəkoī to mean "some deaf guy" (dōrā means deaf in Punjabi and Haryanvi) and find it funny. It may be worth reading Tulsi to see if similar conflations and confusions occur. I am pretty sure they will. This is likely context specific in song too - schwas may be okay as a rhyming device when they do not cause world meanings to alter. I imagine such insertions happen in several languages. Guess: Any consonant can be in need of stretching in a song. Some consonants can be crooned without schwas ('nnnnnnnnn', 'mmmmmmmmmm', 'rrrrrrrrrrrr') and some cannot ('gggggg', 'chchchchch', 'ttttttt' aren't doable) - maybe a fricative vs plosive thing. The latter probably see schwas inserted to make them stretch in song. So words that end in 'r' like 'pyar' probably see more frequent uses like 'pyarrrrrrrrrrrrrrr' and words that end in 't' like 'rut' (season) probably see croons that go 'rutəəəəəəəəəəəəə' :-) It would be fantastic to see some research on this. --Hunnjazal (talk) 23:44, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Not sure if it's pertinent to this discussion, but spoken Russian reduces "a" and "o" to schwas in unstressed syllables, at least the most standard accent (see Vowel reduction in Russian). Apparently Slavic languages are lumped with Indo-Aryan languages in the "satem" group of the Centum-satem isogloss, versus the Centums (Germanic, Greek and Latin-based). On the other hand, you can easily find instances of reduction to schwas in English too. Some say "Āmericā" while others say "America". Wish I knew a few non-IE languages! Perhaps it's only the universal result of lazy mouths. LADave (talk) 19:42, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi Hunnjazal,
Could you fix the IPA at Salimuzzaman Siddiqui and Raziuddin Siddiqui? They both have IPA-en templates, but are obviously meant to be Urdu.
Thanks, — kwami (talk) 07:01, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Hey Hunnjazal! I noticed your edits to the transliteration on Hindi-Urdu. I don't disagree that IAST may not be the best transliteration scheme, but which scheme did you replace it with? Thanks, ʙʌsʌwʌʟʌ spik ʌp! 02:51, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
Evidently we have you to thank more than any other individual for the Adivasi article. Why it is still rated "start-class" is a complete mystery to me!
Nepal also uses this term, as well as जनजाति. Nepal has a large number of groups, at least in proportion to population. If languages are an indicator, with less than 3% of India's population Nepal has over 100 languages compared to India's 1,652. So Nepal's ratio of population to languages is about 300,000:1 vs. India's 600,000:1, suggesting Nepal's incidence of adivasi status might be 2x India's.
There is nothing like the India-oriented Adivasi article for Nepal, although there is are some good articles about individual "tribes". The lack of an umbrella article for Nepal seems unfortunate because adivasi grievances against the Shah regime probably were a dominant cause of the 1996-2006 civil war, and are still unresolved. If only I were fully qualified to remedy this! Unfortunately my experience is limited to a handful of districts, mainly in what they call the "middle west" from Pokhara to Pyuthan. Anyhow there is the hope that getting started will motivate others.
I just barely began incorporating Nepal material into the present article when I realized I could not continue without a major re-write bordering on butchery. The biggest problem I saw was that adivasi status is defined within national and local political contexts. In India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma there was the more or less shared pre-colonial=>East India Company=>High Raj progression with (adivasi) policies perhaps only diverging after independence. Then there are the buffer states: Afghanistan, Nepal, Sikkim and Bhutan. Little if any interference in adivasi matters by the British or any other colonial power, leaving things up to different national politics and histories.
Otherwise a unified article seemed to make sense because national boundaries didn't seem to coincide with anthropological changes in adivasis. For example if you showed the photo of the Khond woman to any Nepali, they would have no trouble recognizing her as a Tharu from Nepal's Terai!
Instead it might be better to retitle the existing article something like "Adivasi (India)" and write a parallel article "Janajati" or "Adivasi (Nepal)", plus a disambiguation page -- not sure how it would be titled if it (potentially) covered all of South Asia.
So what do you think of this? LADave (talk) 21:36, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi Hunnjazal, good job on the article; it seems pretty good. However, I'm wondering where exactly did you get the scheme charts for Hunterian. The "Hunterian with diacritics" seems a little dubious, since it seems from the article that it was never really standardized. Which source did you use for it? Thanks, ʙʌsʌwʌʟʌ spik ʌp! 23:11, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Nope, not necessarily. It would be just as valid to list all variants we run into in that column along with refs. That's actually a pretty good approach come to think of it. I got n with undermacron from one of these books. I'll find it I am sure or will replace with everything that I do find. There is no diacritic standard for Hunterian afaik because the Indian govt hasn't approved it (I note this pretty explicitly in the article). --Hunnjazal (talk) 03:59, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! Still needs more work of course. One big problem is unicode limitations. So, some schemes represent zuad/zoy with a z and two dots under it. Trying to figure this out short of putting pics in :( I get the sense that the Bengali transliteration also can be de-ORed, i.e. almost the entire Wiki scheme will be preserved and it will not be OR or arguably not be OR. --Hunnjazal (talk) 22:45, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
No worries. I'll let you know if I manage to figure this out. --Hunnjazal (talk) 01:56, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Greetings. In the table of consonants at Hunterian, at ग़ you comment that g with macron below is unavailable in Unicode. How does “g͟h” look to you? It looks very good on my system, and seems to be a proper use of Combining Double Macron Below (U+035F), which I placed between ordinary g and h. I’d recommend it for the representation of ख़ as k͟h as well. MJ (t • c) 21:56, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Please don't use Wikipedia to prove a point; first of all, dictionaries are sufficient evidence for the existence of shwa epenthesis, as long as most of them agree. For antaaksh(a)ri, I'm pretty sure the Oxford Hindi-English Dictionary would have marked it; I'll have to check in a week when I have access to it. Once again, its pronunciation was not the reason for the rename, which was simply a matter of common spelling. Second of all, we still need to find a good source on shwa epenthesis in Hindi, which shouldn't be too hard. It does not by any means need to provide the specific words we are having issues about, never did I say that. It simply needs to be able to account for all the instances of possible vowel insertion. And your revert was in bad faith -- you said yourself that the dictionaries provided the word in the way I edited it to, and plus, you did not let me respond before you reverted. Additionally, the dictionary of the link you provided contains evidence against your change, where it clearly puts the pronunciation as /janmajat, whether or not it's reliable. [2] I would suggest you remove your revert to show good faith, but by not I don't mind if you don't; I'll still provide the evidence and some dictionaries all the same. ʙʌsʌwʌʟʌ spik ʌp! 20:56, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
So our disagreement on this issue barely leads to any significant affect on Wikipedia article content. However, vowel epenthesis is indeed an interesting topic that is addressed in several Hindi-related articles. Let's get some opinion of scholars on this topic; I know that MacGregor states in the intro to the Oxford Hindi-English dictionary that a "weakened" schwa exists, which he marks as <ă> in his transcription; unfortunately, he doesn't transcribe "compounds" like antakshari or janmajat, but he states clearly that shwa can be pronounced even though it's unnaturally in Hindi, such as 'vyavăhār', which according to Hindi schwa epenthesis patterns would be vyavhār(xi). Conversely, some schwa's in Sanskrit, like the word sahayoga, are transcribed by MacGregor as sahyog, not sahăyog; therefore, this Sanskritic schwa (all the above words are sanskrit borrowings) seem to be lexically marked, thus breaking Hindi rules (meaning that it's pronounced this way by Hindi speakers but it doesn't fit general patterns in Hindi). I'm not sure what Masica or Shapiro (who wrote descriptions of Hindi) said about this, but I'll check. ʙʌsʌwʌʟʌ spik ʌp! 06:08, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
Basawala, please get a slightly thicker skin. I'm being perfectly polite to you. You're consistently wrong and disruptively argumentative about it. There's more right here. You say - "[dʒənm] isn't even a legal utterance in Hindi" - where in the world would you get this from? It's a completely random assertion made by someone who *clearly* has some unfamiliarity with the language. This is exactly like someone jumping into Solar System and saying - "Saturn is a star." Now what do you want me to do? It's bizarre, it's ridiculous, it's completely pulled out of thin air and it is totally, utterly, absolutely wrong. Why you do these things beats me - it really does. Please at least try just once to look at it from my point of view. You argue with me about something and throw a book at me ("I will check Oxford!"). Then you open the book and it totally supports me. Now you turn around and accuse your own book of being "pedantic". You reject dictionaries as authoritative sources of pronunciation. You reject the perspective of native speakers. Virtually every one of the rules you cite to support you turns out - consistently, verifiably and with references - to apply to Bengali and not to Hindi, whether it is the ड़/ड question, whether it is Sanskrit-origin schwas, or whatever. What do you want me to do? How do I deal with this - except to repeat myself and say "that seems to be from Bengali again - you don't know Hindi - please learn some more before you get involved in these things because you become disruptive and make incorrect edits." I also know you make lots of other contributions to Wikipedia which are very valuable (and I *do* value them). So, I try and be direct and appeal to you. You have a righteousness about Hindi which I think comes from you feeling that you "know" the language, when actually you don't know it to the degree you think you do. In Hindi-Urdu there is a proverb imported directly from Persian "Neem hakeem, khatra-e-jaan" (basically, half-knowledge is the deadlier than no knowledge - all Hindi-speakers virtually universally know this, maybe you do too - it's usually enough to just say "neem hakeem"). It really reminds me of Indians who speak English insisting that the difference between "v" and "w" in English is rubbish, and doesn't exist. Okay, let's look at a few things (I am educating you here, this stuff should be obvious to a native speaker) -
Welcome back, you were gone for a bit there. I really do want to bury the hatchet with you, but you really have to hold your peace and listen a bit more in some situations. Not all critiques are personal attacks. --Hunnjazal (talk) 19:39, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Hello, I see you speak Kashmiri natively. Currently, the MediaWiki software has poor support for Kashmiri and the Kashmiri Wikipedia has no community (probably due to the script issues). I'd like to ask if you are interested in translating a bit of the MediaWiki interface into Kashmiri. If so, please say in which scripts you are able to translate (and which script should be the default). I also contacted other Wikipedia editors who indicated they speak Kashmiri. Thank you, SPQRobin (talk) 22:44, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Actually if you read Wikipedia:Lyrics and poetry it says "Most modern songwriters and poets have not released their works under an open content license and therefore their inclusion in Wikipedia violates their copyright. Copyright usually expires 70 years after the author's death (see below)." One has to be careful with lyrics. Several Hindi film lyrics websites were issued cease and desist letters for posting translations only as the music companies claimed they owned the rights to the translations as well. 72.152.153.21 (talk) 19:41, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
I see you are familiar with Kashmir-related topics. If you are interested, I invite you to become a member of Wikipedia:WikiProject Azad Kashmir, Wikipedia:WikiProject Jammu and Kashmir or Wikipedia:WikiProject Gilgit-Baltistan. Mar4d (talk) 08:44, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
HI Hunnajazal if i m right u have contributed in indus valley article so would u tell me that which civilisation was more advanced harappan or aryan civilisation? i need ur immediate help now pls do fast !!!!!!!!!!!.Angela21124 (talk) 12:55, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
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You've indicated that you speak Punjabi. Would you mind taking a look at a question on the reference desk: Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#Hindi_.26_Punjabi_Names_for_Mount_Everest? Thanks a lot. Buddy431 (talk) 23:54, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
Hello User:Hunnjazal, could you please have a look at this section? To me it does not seem entirely accurate. An IP Address noted this as well, here. Khuda hafiz, AnupamTalk 18:12, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Here is a message for u at article's talk page [3]. 1.23.133.132 (talk) 13:34, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
I really enjoyed your comments on allophones. I'm a native speaker of English who studied linguistics and cannot really hear the difference between aspirated and not consonants. This has made teaching Koreans when to say which, since their language clearly distinguishes them, difficult. Of course, it also made problems in learning Korean [especially since Korean also has tenseness/doubling as a phonemic factor, hence three kinds of p and some others], though now I can say them correctly. On the other hand, I often cannot hear the difference in normal speech [the Korean responding by saying, 'What!!!???!!!?? You can't hear the difference between PPPPPPP and [p]?' Of course, I can: but no one says an extremely aspirated P or a barely audible P in normal speech. And, of course, there is something of the same problem in reverse with R and L. This all gets compounded by real speech situations. I had one student who wanted help with her Rs. So we worked on it, and she quickly got every R and L right . . . in the controlled teaching setting. As she left, she said something like, 'Thanks. See you rater.'Kdammers (talk) 06:36, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
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Sincerest gratitude for your invaluable contributions to Hindi-Urdu related articles on English Wikipedia. Forever indebted to you -and wikipedia of course- for telling it like it is.. Amazing how you never gave up and went thru all the troubles dealing with zealots. Bravo! You're one of the inspirations that led to the genesis of http://www.HamariBoli.com edge.walker (talk) 22:15, 11 August 2012 (UTC) |
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Salaam Hunnjazal, I hope you are doing well. Please correct the spelling of Ashfaqulla Khan on Hindi Wikipedia. The proper spelling should be अशफ़ाक़ुल्ला ख़ान. Khuda hafiz, AnupamTalk 07:11, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
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Hello Hunnjazal, First of all take heartiest greetings from Bengali Wikipedia Community.
In order to celebrate it's 10 year Bengali Wikipedia has arranged a photography contest at Wikimedia Commons. It is scheduled to, start at 1 September 2014 00:00 (UTC) and end at 31 October 2014 00:00 (UTC). We welcome you participate there. Hoping to see you at the contest . Thanks.
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See User talk:MusikAnimal#Copyrights issue. Bladesmulti (talk) 17:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
१४-१५ फरवरी को हम सब लोग दिल्ली में मिल रहे हैं। आपकी प्रतीक्षा है। दर्शन अवश्य दें।
http://hi.wikipedia.org/s/814v
--Manoj Khurana (talk) 04:38, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
The article Muhammad al-Jibaly has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.
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Hi Hunnjazal, Thanks for adding the map legend color boxes with descriptions onto the map body. It makes it easier to compare with the actual map. In the file-NorthIndiaClimateKoppen.png, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NorthIndiaClimateKoppen.png some corrections are needed.Problem seems to be, similar shades of a color are hard to differentiate.
Thanks, by user 2know4power (talk) 18:43, 11 November 2015 (UTC).
Hi,
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Hi Hunnjazal. I just read your discussion with Bodhidharma7 at Talk:Peopling of India#Dravidian-speakers - Dravidian-speakers are Australoid, not Caucasoid. I totally agree with you. See also Dravidian languages#Dravidian migrations, Indo-Aryan migration theory#Genetics, and Talk:Indo-Aryan migration theory#Where are the ANI-loans? further forward. It's indeed pretty obvious:
Once you see, it's crystal clear. I saw it, you saw it, so those geneticists are seeing it too. We can wait for a theoretical overview with the same story to be published pretty soon, I hope; the story is just waiting to be told. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 16:19, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
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Hello Hunnjazal, Thanks for all the great work you do for WP. Could you please take a look at this: audio files for 'stop consonants' in Hindi pronunciation, can they be used for the pronunciation of 'stop consonants' in Sanskrit too?. May be you could reply there at its talk page. Thanks in advance, by User 2know4power (talk) 01:22, 14 January 2017 (UTC).
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Hello Hunnjazal, Thank you very much for the great contributions (articles created) you make for Wikipedia. Your hard work for 55,800+ edits, help to make Wikipedia a veritable treasure trove. Thanks, by User 2know4power (talk) 01:43, 14 January 2017 (UTC) |
Hello! I'd been to North India talk page and saw multiple times that you have anti-Bihari sentiments. Why? This page had included Bihar and MP as a part of North India because both belongs to North-Central Cultural Zone. See http://www.nczccindia.in Then what is your problem with Bihar? Do you think a sensible admin (I don't know if you are an admin or not) should be so biased and full of hatred against one community? 103.212.156.124 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:03, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
Category:Language isolates of Europe, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Inter&anthro (talk) 04:21, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
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Hello, Hunnjazal. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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