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January 27

Template:Video game console timeline

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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 03:45, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Unused, not updated since 2012. Unclear what timeline is about. Video game consoles in North America? Production? Sales? If so, nothing that can't be explained in text. Soetermans. T / C 15:18, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Final Fantasy locations

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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 03:49, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Two articles listed, not necessary to have in a siderbar template. Soetermans. T / C 15:12, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:StrategyWiki

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The result of the discussion was deletePlastikspork ―Œ(talk) 14:37, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Unnecessary, unencyclopedic to point to one provider of walkthroughs. StrategyWiki's welcome message reads: "Welcome to StrategyWiki, a collaborative and freely-licensed wiki for all your video game strategy guide and walkthrough needs! The guides here can be edited by anyone, so feel free to jump in and improve something!" No different than GameFAQs, CheatCodeCentral or any random cheat or walkthrough guide. It fails WP:ELYES, as it is not "relevant to an encyclopedic understanding of the subject" to know how to finish a game. As it is user-submitted, we can't tell if it is accurate to begin with. WP:ELNO No. 1: it is not a "unique resource", as it is a "how-to" guide. Soetermans. T / C 15:10, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
They do not belong in the External link section either. WP:ELNO No. 1: a walkthrough won't be used beyond for a featured article, as these are user-submitted and also... No. 2: it's unverifiable. We can't tell if these guides are actually accurate. No. 12: only open wikis with a substantial history are okay. There are articles on Nukapedia, on Memory Alpha and on Wookieepedia, but not on StrategyWiki. Wikipedia is written for a large audience. That's why video game articles describe gameplay in general, not in detail. So after reading an article about a video game, the general reader would have more use of a link to an official website, an interview with the developer or an in-depth behind-the-scenes piece. Being presented with a guide on how to finish the game is not necessary. Further more, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of other websites that offer the same content like StrategyWiki. There are strategy guides like Prima Games and there's GameFAQs. Having those would be considered inappropriate as well. Why make an exception for StrategyWiki? --Soetermans. T / C 16:31, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You need to review the entirety of ELNO#2, which is "A website which misleads the reader by [etc.]"; StrategyWiki clearly does not fall under the category of a website attempting to mislead the audience. As well, their material is not unverifiable--go and play the game yourself.

Regards ELNO#1, walkthroughs are clearly material-unique and which go above and beyond what an FA would provide. Please review that statement as well.

Regards ELNO#12, StrategyWiki is an open wiki with a substantial history--that it is not deemed WP:N at this time is irrelevant to that question.

Regards your "what about every other walkthrough site", this is an interesting one but the deletion of a template does not factor into it. --Izno (talk) 16:39, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No. 1: "Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a featured article". To learn how to finish a game does not mean knowing more about the game, which why it fails WP:ELYES No. 3: "Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that is relevant to an encyclopedic understanding of the subject". You know I'm also heavily involved in editing video game related articles. I'm always making sure that the general reader of Wikipedia can understand a video game article. So why would it be "encyclopedic" for the general reader to know how to finish Arkanoid? ELNO No. 2 reads: "Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research". I'm not saying that StrategyWiki is "attempting" to mislead, I'm saying it can't be checked. I do not own Arkanoid for instance; I can't check if that information is correct. I've crossed the nobility point out, you're right. Concerning other walkthrough websites, maybe I'm not phrasing it right at this time. --Soetermans. T / C 16:57, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The walkthrough is only a portion of what is covered. There are also comparisons of different versions of the games that were released StrategyWiki:Arkanoid/Versions and large sections of appendices which contain lists for all kinds of in-game content. The difference from prima games/gamefaqs is that it's an open wiki, with a compatible license to Wikipedia. This is useful as a target to transwiki any un-encyclopedic content, as was done with a number of game-guide books from wikibooks. -- Prod (Talk) 18:46, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just because you don't own Arkanoid and can't verify the information doesn't mean that others can't. Most of the contributors to SW make tremendous efforts to verify the accuracy of the content. I'm not clear on what Soetermans's personal bias against the site is? Maybe if he came to the site and joined the community, he would have less misgivings about directing people to learn much more about a game than what Wikipedia is permitted to present to a reader? Plotor (talk) 19:18, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
While different versions of a game I would consider useful for the general reader, those can also be found on MobyGames. MobyGames also includes original reviews and other information, and is especially useful for older games. StrategyWiki still functions as a "how-to" guide. Xbox 360 achievements and lists of weapons are not useful for the general reader either, and can be found all over the internet.
Just because my reading of WP:EL is different than yours does not mean I'm somehow "biased". I think it's a great idea for readers to know more about video games, but StrategyWiki is not the place. To learn more about BioShock, I'd rather point to scholarly research, than a half-finished walkthrough. --Soetermans. T / C 08:13, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  1. StrategyWiki is not well-maintained, and does not provide a good gameguide for every game. Looking up BioShock, a game released over eight years ago, I noticed StrategyWiki's guide on the game is half-finished. There is no article on BioShock Infinite, released three years ago. There aren't a lot of Tomb Raider games with an articles either. IIIand Underworld don't have a guide, while 1996's Tomb Raider has the first three levels. Randomly looking up other games: Donkey Kong Country misses 18 levels out 39. Age of Empires II is in better shape, but misses three missions and not every unit has an article. I looked up Disney's Aladdin, it has two levels. The level "Inside the Lamp" is described as "Throughout this level, your transported inside the Genie's lamp! Not good! So make your way out of the lamp and continue your epic quest to kill Jafar!" That doesn't provide the reader with anything substantial at all.
    It is true that not all of our guides are in a completed state. It is also true that not all of Wikipedia's articles are either. I personally have never chosen to add the template to any article on Wikipedia for which a guide is not in a completed or featured state. That's why the SW template has not been included on BioShock or Tomb Raider or Donkey Kong Country, and it won't be until such a time when those guides are complete. That's also precisely why we need your assistance on the site, not this useless bickering here. Plotor (talk) 15:06, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  2. StrategyWiki is used in 472 pages on Wikipedia, which isn't a lot. Theoretically, what would editors think if the template was added to all video game articles? Wouldn't that be inappropriate? After an article (again, written for an audience), how would pointing to a guide on how to finished said game be encyclopedic or even informational?
    The template should not be used on every game article for precisely the reasons I expressed directly up above. If a guide on SW is not in the kind of shape it needs to be in to provide WP readers with reliable, peer reviewed, and complete information, the template is not added to the WP article. And I would have any such inclusion removed from the article for that very reason. Plotor (talk) 15:06, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  3. There are dozens of other gameguides on the internet. StrategyWiki is by no means complete. Why play favorites and link to StrategyWiki (in a template form no less), instead of IGN, USGamer or VG247, all considered reliable sources? --Soetermans. T / C 08:13, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    All of those sites you mentioned are commercial sites with closed licenses. None of the information presented on those sites is public domain or editable by peers. SW maintains the exact same license and interface as WP itself, and therefore deserves distinction. There is no break or change in philosophy when going from WP to SW and vice versa, and we've worked very hard to maintain that over the years. You are primarily criticizing the site's inclusion due to an incomplete understanding of how the site operates and what it's intended function is. Plotor (talk) 15:06, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So that's it? After serving the Wikipedia community for over nine years, this template will be unceremoniously deleted from the site, and we have no recourse or alternative? Plotor (talk) 20:24, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

To be frank, I'm hard-pressed to think of a more ceremonious removal of text from the Internet. czar 01:20, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Template:Steam app

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The result of the discussion was deletePlastikspork ―Œ(talk) 14:37, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Inappropriate to link to a commercial website (WP:ELNO No. 14), unnecessary to have it in a template form. Soetermans. T / C 15:01, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Gamerdna game

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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 03:58, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Unused template. Soetermans. T / C 14:58, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Yakuza chronology

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The result of the discussion was deleteczar 17:26, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Per a previous discussion, video game chronology templates generally aren't considered useful. It lists three games that are not canonical, while the rest of the games are subsequential. No reason to have a chronological template. Soetermans. T / C 14:56, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:00, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Fails WP:NAVBOX completely. Rogues gallery "is a police collection of pictures or photographs of criminals and suspects kept for identification purposes". What probably is meant is "In comics, a specific superhero's recurring and most notable enemies are sometimes referred to as a rogues gallery" (see Rogues gallery (disambiguation). So there is no article on the subject of this navbox, the most important reason for having one in the first place. It lists common enemies and villians from various fictional universes, but those do no have anything in common with each other. Soetermans. T / C 14:46, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:IPhone video game engines

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The result of the discussion was deleteczar 17:27, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There's already ((Video game engines)), listing video game engines. It would be redundant to have separate navboxes for engines on each platform. Further more, this navbox supposedly lists engines "targeting" iOS. But Unreal Engine, Marmalade (software) or GameMaker: Studio aren't specifically "targeting" iOS. Soetermans. T / C 14:40, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Pro gamer achievements

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The result of the discussion was relist to Feb 8Primefac (talk) 05:18, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was deleteczar 17:27, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Unnecessary sidebar with events and releases in the video game industry in 2006, divided by year. Soetermans. T / C 14:28, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Map of Square Enix companies

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The result of the discussion was delete. Page was already substituted onto the Square Enix page, which is a decent location for it. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:15, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Unnecessary world map of locations of Square Enix companies. Nothing that can't be described in prose or in a list. Soetermans. T / C 14:25, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:AtariAge company

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The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted as G7 by 28bytes (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 14:07, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Unfinished, unused Barely used template. Soetermans. T / C 14:21, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Periglio/Reject

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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 03:07, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

unused. Frietjes (talk) 00:43, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:CyMoBase

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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 03:06, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

unused. Frietjes (talk) 00:37, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Prism/Lights

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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 03:06, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

unused. Frietjes (talk) 00:31, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:NewyorkadamGA

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The result of the discussion was relist to Feb 8Primefac (talk) 05:20, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

should be moved to userspace? Frietjes (talk) 00:29, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Cite Hochreiter:2000book

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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:19, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

unused and not needed. Frietjes (talk) 00:22, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Miss Denmark

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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:21, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Three year versions of a pageant, all three AfD'ed. Two of them Crystal balls. The Banner talk 00:08, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Conditional delete If the articles are deleted, then this template should go to but not before....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:49, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
By now emptied by a third party. The Banner talk 16:03, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Template:Infobox Quebec political party

Propose merging Template:Infobox Quebec political party and Template:Infobox Canadian political party with Template:Infobox political party.
These two infoboxes differ only minimally from the generic political party infobox and are therefore redundant rather than a really helpful simplification. PanchoS (talk) 20:32, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Trains portal/DYK date

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The result of the discussion was keep. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 04:21, 6 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Robert F. Kennedy currently contains a notice that "A fact from this article was used in the "Did you know" section of Portal:Trains on November 4, 2009.". For most (if not all) editors interested in discussing the RFK article that notice is nothing more than a piece of clutter that has to be scrolled past to get to the discussions. This template appears to have been superseded by the use of a parameter on the WikiProject template - e.g. ((WikiProject Trains|...|portaldykdate=January 7, 2016)) (which doesn't add to the visible clutter on the talk page). Note: If this TFD results in the deletion of the template then it could be followed by a TFD covering other similar templates (e.g. Template:OhioSAN, Template:VP Showcase, Template:MedportalSAC). DexDor (talk) 18:57, 7 January 2016 (UTC) Amended. DexDor (talk) 06:38, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Can you give an example of how having this template on a page is useful - i.e. how would knowing that a page once featured in a portal's DYK affect any edit you (or, more importantly, another editor at, for example, the RFK article) might make? If editors (actually, for many/most portals that should read "the editor") at a particular portal want to keep a record of that portal's DYKs then a list on a subpage of that portal would be more appropriate. DexDor (talk) 06:38, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
note: I have left a message on WT:TWP for participants in the Trains WikiProject to participate in this discussion.
Since there are now several million articles in this language version of Wikipedia, I avoid having articles appear more than once in the did you know section, so, as the portal editor, I need an easy way to identify that an article has appeared on any date in the past. It's quite a bit faster and less error-prone to check an article's talk page than it is to scan a list of several thousand articles (even when using the Find function in the browser). The Trains portal was created in May 2005, I have been maintaining it for the last 11 years and making additions to the portal's DYK section on a daily basis, that means that about 4000 distinct articles (365x11=4015) have been selected for use as entries in the did you know section. Maintaining a list with more than 4000 entries is impractical. Slambo (Speak) 23:50, 31 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Template:WikiProjectBanners

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The result of the discussion was redirect. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 02:35, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Template:WikiProjectBanners with Template:WikiProjectBannerShell.
It would be nice to merge these two templates so that we have a single banner shell template with all the same options. Currently ((WikiProjectBanners)) is a wrapper for ((WikiProjectBannerShell)) with the parameter |collapsed= set to "yes". So if we could replace all instances of ((WikiProjectBanners)) with ((WikiProjectBannerShell|collapsed=yes)) then we could just redirect or delete ((WikiProjectBanners)) — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:31, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Template:Latin Union

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The result of the discussion was delete. The navbox doesn't link to articles about the involvement of the countries in the LU, which is the primary purpose of a navbox. (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 01:45, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Pointless navbox that just links to country articles for those countries who are members of the organization. We already have a list article that serves this function. If the template were to link instead to, say, articles on branches of the organization in different countries it might be worth keeping, but not as it stands. NSH002 (talk) 23:54, 19 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you consider it unncessary clutter? Chicbyaccident (talk) 14:59, 22 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Chicby, WP:ITSIMPORTANT is not an argument, nor is anyone saying that the Latin Union is not important: we're discussing if having a template based upon the members of said union is needed. WP:NAVBOX reads:
  1. All articles within a template relate to a single, coherent subject.
  2. The subject of the template should be mentioned in every article.
  3. The articles should refer to each other, to a reasonable extent.
  4. There should be a Wikipedia article on the subject of the template.

The subject of this template is the Latin Union, which has its own article. But the Latin Union is for instance not mentioned in the article on France. The articles linked do not refer to other members in that sense. So it fails WP:NAVBOX. --Soetermans. T / C 11:05, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. However, as far as I'm concerned, I would say the template does qualify to the above conditions. Templates for national or regional memberships in organisations like this, and far less important ones, are typical for Wikipedia. In the academic world, in commerce, in religion, and so forth. Chicbyaccident (talk) 16:16, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As far as you're concerned the template does qualify? How? I specifically pointed out how it does not meet WP:NAVBOX: the articles listed do not refer to each other. WP:OTHERSTUFF is also not an argument. You're basically just saying "I don't agree", without an argument. Which guidelines would suggest having this template is useful? --Soetermans. T / C 20:24, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well. Technically, I just moved an existing, acclaimed template content into its own template page. Thus, arguably, there was consensus about having this information presented in this template since before. I just changed the location of its code. You seem experienced on Wikipedia and also strikingly concerned about this very subject. I'm not really that experienced, nor concerned. Yet, for now, we are two people who advocate keeping it these template contents in addition to the arguable previous consensus of not deleting it in its previous location of the code. I'm sorry for not yet making an effort to argue more that this, but I shall do it if you do persist in your advoacy for deletion. Chicbyaccident (talk) 21:21, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Soetermans has pointed out that this template fails WP:NAVBOX on points 1, 2 and 3, so it should be deleted. That's really all that matters in a deletion discussion. You say that it used to be "existing, acclaimed template content" [on the Latin Union page] but this isn't relevant because on that page it is not serving as a navbox (navigating between articles) but merely as a way of listing some information. The use of ((Navbox)) was just a lazy way of adding the info. Also, I see no "acclamation" relating to that info, neither on Talk:Latin Union, nor on your talk page. --NSH002 (talk) 23:07, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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@Chicbyaccident:, I do believe I am somewhat experienced with Wikipedia, yes. But so are you! :) I might be more familiar with deletion discussions though, that's why I keep pressing on why it should stay or go. And it is my reading of the guidelines which leads me to believe we do not it. But hey, convince me otherwise! --Soetermans. T / C 08:05, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Template:Jedi

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The result of the discussion was relist to Feb 11Primefac (talk) 01:59, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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