Case clerk: AlexandrDmitri (Talk) Drafting arbitrators: AGK (Talk) & Kirill Lokshin (Talk)
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Behaviour on this page: Arbitration case pages exist to assist the Arbitration Committee in arriving at a fair, well-informed decision. You are required to act with appropriate decorum during this case. While grievances must often be aired during a case, you are expected to air them without being rude or hostile, and to respond calmly to allegations against you. Accusations of misbehaviour posted in this case must be proven with clear evidence (and otherwise not made at all). Editors who conduct themselves inappropriately during a case may be sanctioned by an arbitrator, clerk, or functionary, without further warning, by being banned from further participation in the case, or being blocked altogether. Personal attacks against other users, including arbitrators or the clerks, will be met with sanctions. Behavior during a case may also be considered by the committee in arriving at a final decision.
Inactive:
I've interacted with GoodDay for many years in the hockey project. We've agreed on some things, we've disagreed on others, and in the case of diacritics, we used to agree but now disagree. I don't know much about his conflicts in the realm of the British Isles, but his attitude around diacritics has become increasingly combative as of late in my view. I would also point this edit on Jimbo's talk page out. This type of non sequitur is a not-uncommon behaviour and is disruptive. However, I do not think we are at the point of needing a full arbitration case and at any rate, I am not certain what Steven is actually expecting out of this - admonishment? topic bans? site ban? I would think a topic ban would be the most effective solution, as GoodDay does do some good gnoming work unrelated to his problem areas. Something like that could be done via motion rather than full case if enough commenters of this RFArb support them (or if the committee directs Steven to go to AN to propose something on the community level). I don't particularly want to silence GoodDay on the diacritics issue, but he does need to step back from it in my view, because his obsession with it is bordering on zealotry, and I've seen plenty of zealots run themselves right off Wikipedia. Resolute 00:56, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
@Roger Davies and SirFozzie - The issue of diacritics is a rather trivial thing on its face, but one of GoodDay's oft-repeated arguments against their use lends a clue. He likes to dismiss support for the use of diacritics as being "home country pride". His attitude is borderline xenophobic with a heavy dose of "protecting my language" bent. On the pro-usage side, many feel that dropping diacritics introduces spelling errors in people and place names, which can also be characterized as "protecting my language". In a lot of ways, it can be framed as a sub-plot to the many issues we have had related to nationalism (e.g.: WP:BISE, which GoodDay is/was heavily involved in). Resolute 13:33, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
@DBD - We just had an RFC on diacritics not too long ago, and as another commenter noted, it ended no-consensus. I don't believe another RFC would resolve with a different outcome. Since WP:HOCKEY deals with many eastern European and Scandanavian names, the diacritics issue has been on our radar for several years now. After much gnashing of teeth, we've reached a compromise that generally works: North America-centred articles drop diacritics (save some articles about teams/events in Quebec) while European-centred articles and biographical articles use them. It has worked for us for some time. I would note that GoodDay has chafed under that agreement a little and zealously "guards" the NA-based articles against diacritics, but he has always respected the compromise. Resolute 13:43, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
At recent WP:RM surveys involving diacritics in titles, GoodDay has often posted one-line statements that "this is English language Wikipedia & there's no diacritics in the English alphabet".( [1] [2][3] etc). In challenging this blanket statement, I brought up English words like "resumé" and American names like Zoë Baird as counterexamples. GoodDay proceeded to make this edit to Zoë Baird, which was brought to my attention by another editor, and which really seems a bit egregious. I reverted this edit and four other similar edits that he made in the same time period, all of which he re-reverted with the edit summary "stop stalking me".[4][5][6][7][8] This is not an accurate characterization, as I don't recall any prior interaction with GoodDay's edits except on the talk pages of WP:RM surveys and on my own talk page. At that point GoodDay appeared to blow a fuse, several times deleting comments left on his talk page by myself and others.([9] and especially note this edit) I posted to his mentor's talk page[10] and I guess we have arrived at this point. He's been occasionally mildly uncivil,[11] but mostly a bit bullheaded, and somewhat uncollegial in the RM survey discussions in declining to engage in more than just terse repetitive restatements of his core position. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 01:32, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps the terse repetitive insistence that English text can never ever contain any diacritics whatsoever (eg, as at the last link above), especially without meaningfully engaging in any kind of debate when attempts are made to draw him into a discussion by suggesting counterexamples, constitutes a mild form of disruptive editing as per the definition of "repeating it almost without end, and refusing to acknowledge others' input". Not really a big issue, unless it's part of some longstanding pattern or track record which I am unaware of. — P.T. Aufrette (talk) 23:01, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I don't know the full background here of GoodDay so this is generally a comment about his actions lately in several rm's and such. I noticed this because his page is on my watchlist for all his tennis edits. One thing that disturbs me most is that this seems to be one-sided from the point of view of the we must always use diacritics editors. There are just as many pro-diacritic editors who push things to the limit yet nothing is brought here about them. Could he be more civil? Yes. Would it be better if he left more complex reasoning when editing an article or talk page? yes. Do I see dozens of edits a week in RMs and !votes by long time editors that are also the same quality of civility and beating a dead horse analogy? yes. Then what's the difference in this case? The problem isn't so much GoodDay as it is wikipedia guidelines and policies being unbelievably vague and ambiguous on the use of diacritics. The last big RfC on the subject ended in no consensus to use or not use and any attempts to really bring all policies and guidelines in synch hopelessly fails every time. With these policies to follow editors are pretty much cattle driven into having huge battles in article after article and, depending on who notices or is in town that week, articles wind up with or without diacritics depending on the English sources. This happens in tennis articles all the time because a name will be spelled with diacritics in a players' birthplace yet spelled without them in US, UK, Australia, Canada, the governing bodies of tennis, and even a player's own personal English website. We often need multiple spelling versions of a players name in the lead sentence so as not to have unfair censoring. This makes for huge battles and fights because of ambiguous wiki guidance. It's gotta be a shock if one is a new editor here. I can't speak particularly about UK or Ireland articles because I rarely edit them unless they pertain to tennis or music articles. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:37, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
@ P.T. Aufrette - I've been involved in discussions where GoodDay has left the same sentence answer several times, but there are dozens of others on the pro-diacritic side that seem even more intense and leave the same 20 word Demands every day. Did they get dragged up here? No. Why? Is it because the pro-diacritic folks turn their heads and look away? That would be exceedingly unfair if so. And you're actually bringing up that an editor is deleting posts on his talk page? I've been told over and over that we can delete talk page chatter at any time for any reason unless it is a particular administrative warning or block. And when those items are over they can still be deleted. The link you gave on your post on his page was not exactly anything noteworthy anyway. If we arbitrated every editor that was mildly uncivil, a bit bullheaded, and somewhat "uncollegial" I think the list would be mountainous. And it would include some administrators too from what I've seen. My own skin had to become much thicker around here or I'd have fled long ago. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:37, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I realise my experience with GoodDay's crusade against diacritics is not recent, but from what I can see, not a lot has changed. In a discussion on Wikipedia talk:Use English last spring he repeated the same mantras he's repeating now, and in response to clear evidence presented in that discussion that diacritics are used in English, he responded "your argument is unacceptable to me… diacritics should be eradicated from English Wikipedia & there's nothing you can do to change my stance".[12] I hate to bring up something from a year ago, but it's clearly still relevant, he's admitted that nothing can change his "stance", just like the other fringe POV pushers we get on Wikipedia often admit that they will never change their "stance" that dinosaurs lived on Noah's Ark or that astrology is science. I really don't see the difference between this and what GoodDay is doing with diacritics, since the allegation that "there are no diacritics in English" is so demonstrably false. There needs to be a new consensus about diacritics in article titles and leads (and I wish all diacritics related RMs would stop until we come to one), and GoodDay should be welcome to repeat his mantra at every RM in the meantime with the rest of us safe in the knowledge that most administrators with clue will probably ignore it, but the fact that he still feels the need to make edits like this one tells me that this request is necessary. I also hope this will be a step towards us coming to a new consensus about diacritics. - filelakeshoe 09:30, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
re: to MakeSense: Sorry, what I meant was, come up with a new clearer, plainer guideline which we just follow and forget about it. The current one is, as you point out, too vague, and that's why admins closing RMs don't (know how to) follow it. As for Zoë Baird, without wanting to get into another long tedious round in circles discussion about diacritics on this page, the crazy part of it was the word "English", implying the accented form was... what language, exactly? And also the circumstance in which the edit was made as described above by P.T. Aufrette. - filelakeshoe 16:13, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
This is disappointing. GoodDay is generally a good editor. Yes, I have often reminded him to wind his neck in and just get on with gnoming. I concur that there should be arbitration regarding GoodDay's behaviour, but I don't believe that the wider issue can be solved until there is a decisive policy discussion regarding use of diacritics. I strongly suggest that either: such a discussion is had after this arb case, or this case is postponed until that discussion has closed with clear and unambiguous policy decisions. ✝DBD 11:32, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
@Resolute Thanks for shedding light. I think it might be useful to link the compromise (which I assume had a sort of consensus and thus represents a sort of guideline on this issue). You assert that GD has generally respected (or worked within the terms of) that compromise – how do you see that assertion's effect on this case? ✝DBD 14:40, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I have only encountered GoodDay in a couple of RM discussions, most recently here [13], and he does indeed always seem to vote with the same boilerplate text that does not cite any policy or guideline. But so do many other editors who always come to vote with "this is an encyclopedia" or "because it is her real name" as the only motivation for their vote. Can we complain that GoodDay continues to use a boilerplate text, when so many other editors on the other side of the diacritics-saga continue to do the same? The solution to this is not banning or blocking but in closing admins starting to give a bit more feedback when they close a RM. Why don't they simply list the votes that were not counted (because not based in policy) in their closing motivation? Is that asking too much? If editors like GoodDay see that their vote doesn't count, then they get useful feedback and will adapt (for example by educating themselves about our AT policies). This will be a bit more work for admins in the beginning, but will soon reduce their workload as voting editors learn how to vote and bring proper arguments to a RM discussion. That would be real mentoring. Now we just continue to muddle through on the basis of very ambiguous and fragmented policies and guidelines, with nobody being able to make sense of RM closures anymore (because most admins give little or no motivation). We can't complain that some editors like GoodDay continue to vote in the way they do, as long as they have the impression that their votes get counted. MakeSense64 (talk) 15:13, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
@filelakeshoe. What good is a new concensus about diacritics going to do if it is applied as inconsistently as the current one? Without more consistency and transparency in RM closures, editors can only get the impression that RM are based mainly on headcounts or on the personal preferences of the closing admin. In the first case it leads to editors bringing on votes, in the latter case it leads to travesties like what we saw in the recent closing of the RM at Nico Hulkenberg. The problem is not GoodDay or other voting editors, the problem is hopelessly fragmented and diluted policies, and too many editors who want to keep it that way. MakeSense64 (talk) 15:32, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
@filelakeshoe. The Zoë Baird edit you mentioned [14] was not at all crazy. Wikipedia:LEAD#Alternative_names requires us to mention significant alternative names (including alternative spellings) if they exist. Several of the sources used for the article render her name "Zoe Baird", so why not mention this commonly used alternative spelling in the lede? It is backed up by sources, and readers may doubt whether some "Zoe Baird" they have read about elsewhere is the same person as this "Zoë Baird". We can say it is most likely, but there might be a different "Zoe Baird" who is also a lawyer. MakeSense64 (talk) 16:09, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
@filelakeshoe. I agree that "(Also:..)" would have been better than "(English:..)" in the Zoe Baird case. But with regards to that type of edits that GoodDay started making I would like to point the reviewing admins to this recent RM discussion where GD voted: Talk:Eiður_Guðjohnsen#Requested_move. It was brought up that the common English spelling of this person's name was missing in the lede, and several editors agreed that English spelling should be shown in the lede if the article was kept at native title. As it happened, GD put his vote in right after that discussion, so it is quite likely that he has read and picked up on it there. MakeSense64 (talk) 14:11, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Apologies for arriving late here. I probably have seen GoodDay around before but the name didn't really register until he complained to me directly about edits (lede edits and sourcing and moves) to a group of martiniquais politician stubs sourced primarily from the French National Assembly website. There is an extensive section on GoodDay's talk page under the heading Thélus Léro. As a result of GoodDay's request I submitted several other martiniquais politician stubs to a RM at Talk:Hégésippe Légitimus which passed unanimously, except for GoodDay, illustrating again that outside tennis/hockey use of European names is generally not controversial - as indicated by any category in the Latin-alphabet name space (although I realise this may not be evident to GoodDay since one would need to know e.g. French to be able to assess whether French names are really 100% in use in France-related articles).
My second encounter was while starting an article on a French WWI pilot Jean de Gaillard de la Valdène where a hyphen edit nearly made me lose part of the content. I accepted GoodDay's explanation that it was a coincidence, but notified the interaction to his mentor, and notified GoodDay that I had done this. My observation of GoodDay is that he is easily upset, and easily egged-on on the diacritics issue, but not malicious. I don't have any knowledge on the UK edits mentioned above. I have no opinion on whether a topic ban on diacritics would be helpful to GoodDay, that is for his mentors to decide. In my view GoodDay's "English Wikipedia" Talk comments are considerably less disruptive than others' actual article space edits.
I do have one comment however, discussion here has centered on the "Zoë Baird (English Zoe Baird)" edit, and I also left a request to GoodDay on this. But now I would have more concern about the "François Mitterrand (English Francois Mitterand)" edit, because it seems to me to possibly have been deliberately selected since François Mitterrand is the example used at WP:FULLNAME and WP:OPENPARA, two examples which are sometimes disputed by those against full spelling of European Latin-alphabet names on en.wp. If that's the case then the selection of "François Mitterrand (English Francois Mitterand)" was not just silly it was also WP:POINTY. Apart from that edit I have no other edit which concerns me. AFAIK mainly GoodDay just Talks, and talk is free. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:03, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
I withdrew a statement here earlier, but I feel that I have to share some of the latest interactions between GoodDay and a couple of other editors, including myself, on his talkpage. The general pattern seems to be that, while other editors mostly go out of their way to be reasonable, GoodDay responds with one-liners full of self-pity, portraying en.wiki as a victim of those hateful diacritics that are "forced" on it, and himself as a victim of unfair treatment.
Key example:
Reasonable input from Isaacl. [15], followed by GoodDay's response: [16].
Btw, GoodDay has admitted [17], albeit misplaced (in another editor's section here), that the bold moves have more or less ceased, yes he insists that bold moves are "encouraged" and occurs "each day", while his bold edits – e.g. adding English: Zoe Baird – are being punished (here, by this process).
My impression is that GoodDay is regressing and behaving more and more immaturely as the dispute goes on, desperate to milk some kind of concession out of the process as a compromise (such as an alternative spelling in the lead section). Maybe he feels that he's got nothing to lose anymore.
HandsomeFella (talk) 19:08, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
@GoodDay: how can it be baiting when the links don't involve my own edits? HandsomeFella (talk) 20:15, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by GoodDay (talk) 15:12, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
I fully understand the reason why I was restricted from the diacritics topic on June 14, 2012 via a report by my mentor Steven Zhang in concurrance with my other mentor DBD. It wasn't because of my stance on diacritics, but rather because of my conduct/behavour towards editors involved with the topic. I wish to have my restriction amended, so that I can impliment WP:HOCKEY's directive on North American related hockey articles. In particular, NHL non-bio articles & templates. I don't wish to get involved with RM, guidelines or any non-hockey discussions concerning diacritcs. Again, I fully accept that my past conduct was in error. GoodDay (talk) 15:12, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Is GoodDay allowed to edit hockey-related articles if they stay away from diacritics? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 23:22, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Provided only that it is accepted that "hide diacritics on the player entries at the 30 NHL team roster templates" is non-contentious it would seem churlish not to at least loosen the restriction to specifically allow that, and to allow Good Day to respond to comments relating to those edits. If even that discussion should be seen as too risky, then allow him to make a standard response, referring interlocutors to his mentors, or to the hockey project.
Grasp this opportunity to make a positive step with both hands!
Rich Farmbrough, 03:40, 22 March 2013 (UTC).
@Risker, GoodDay is not requesting to edit diacritics out of hockey articles, but out of 30 clearly defined templates. He also says "hide" - by which I assume that links will be piped when necessary. As I understand it the templates are these.
Rich Farmbrough, 04:02, 25 March 2013 (UTC).
@Rich - Given the number of Eastern European players under the scope of the hockey project, and given how contentious the matter of squiggly marks are, we reached a compromise several years ago, absent a Wiki-wide consensus, to show diacritics only on player articles and 'international' articles. As the NHL has consistently dropped them, the other side of the compromise was that NHL-related articles (North America-based articles, actually) would hide them. GoodDay is asking here for permission to enforce that compromise.
I ride the fence on the idea of lifting GoodDay's topic ban but would lean against supporting his petition at this time. Aside from his breaching experiments shortly after the ban was enacted, he has successfully stayed away from the area, including (to his credit) avoiding being baited into the area by editors seemingly on his side. However, the very nature of this request indicates a continuing obsession with "non-English letters" that helped drive him into that arbitration case. IMO, diacritics aren't the root of GoodDay's problem, they merely focus it. They are a symptom of an obsessive-compulsive need for things to match his personal world view. I think GoodDay is sincere in his request and at this point wants to lift the ban merely to "fix" some articles to bring them in line with the hockey project's compromise. But I also believe that the ultimate result of lifting the ban would be to give him the rope to hang himself with. I've had good and bad interactions with GoodDay, and the bad ones are fueled by what I perceive as his being a drama junkie. His obsession with diacritics is likely only going to lead to a site ban if he is allowed to edit within the topic area again, if only because he enjoys being in the middle of controversy. Resolute 13:45, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
As a bit of background on the compromise that GoodDay is seeking to enforce if you were to allow him to. It was partially created because GoodDay at the time of its creation was edit warring with IP based editors over the use or non-use of diacritics. In an attempt to stop the edit warring that was spreading over numerous articles the compromise was created to try and limit the battles that were ongoing. If GoodDay is thinking that we aren't enforcing the compromise in his "absence" it is purely because we no longer have to because the compromise was created to stop edit warring, and since one of the main edit warriors on the topic is no longer able to edit them we no longer need to "enforce" it because there hasn't been any edit warring. GoodDay needs to learn that his editing in the area of diacritics hasn't been helpful to anyone, especially to himself. Modifying his topic ban is only likely to cause him to get into more trouble and end up with a full site ban. -DJSasso (talk) 18:54, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
I would note that his British Isles Topic Ban was just reinstated yesterday as well which shows the problems that were brought up in his Arb case have not gone away. He has just shifted them to other subjects again. I would actually suggest that Arbcom take over the other topic ban as well with a motion. -DJSasso (talk) 11:30, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! at 14:49, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Hi all. In May 2012 I brought before the committee a case regarding my mentee, GoodDay, which in the decision included a remedy that warned GoodDay about his conduct and the potential consequences that could face him if the behaviour continued. I am here because I would like the Arbitration Committee to consider in light of his behaviour as of recent (as part of a pattern over an extended period of time) whether additional measures are necessary.
Concurrent to the indefinite topic ban from making changes to diacritics, GoodDay has been under a topic ban from editing articles related to the UK and Ireland, broadly construed, and as part of the ANI thread where this was imposed, I was delegated the ability to lift and reimpose this as required. The initial months of his editing after the case closed were good. He focused on gnoming edits and other maintenance tasks (which occasionally caused a small issue but nothing serious) and generally kept to himself, and after a while he requested his topic ban be lifted. Given his reasonably good behaviour, and with Snowded (talk · contribs) taking GoodDay on to help him in this area with some guidelines having been put in place, I agreed. For a while, as far as I saw (Snowded was taking care of GoodDay for the most part) things were going OK. It was only when I was notified on my talk page about an issue that had blown up did I look into things closer, and realised that the issues that were present before the topic ban was instated still existed. Reading over his contributions, one discussion (similar to many on my and GoodDay's talk page) at Snowded's talk page point to the problem - when something goes wrong, GoodDay tends to point the finger at others without acknowledging his culpability in the matter. As a result of this I decided to reinstate his topic ban.
However these are not isolated incidents, I've taken this as an example (that and the 2 sections below it) of the sort of conduct that is common. To me, this appears to be a recurring pattern of behaviour that mentorship and topic bans has been unable to resolve. It seems that when he is restricted from one set of articles, it just moves onto another area. Along with other Wikipedians, I have tried to advise him on the best course of action to take to keep himself out of strife, and suggested (even offered) to work with him on articles of interest to keep him out of trouble, but he has not heeded any of our advice. For this reason I ask the Arbitration Committee to consider the best way to resolve this. Thank you. Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! 14:49, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
I'm simply too tired to argue. I'll accept whatever Arbcom decides. GoodDay (talk) 15:01, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
I just want to continue on with my gnoming & nothing more. GoodDay (talk) 02:06, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Furthermore, I promise to stay away from politically charged (or any disputed) areas & to steer clear of talkpages. I'll avoid participating in politically charged topics at my own user-talkpage. I will refrain from labelling any editors. GoodDay (talk) 02:25, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Res to WTT: I shouldn't have gotten involved in any disputes, where I apparently caused more problems then I hoped to solve. I lost my temper with a few editors & should've followed Steven's advice of 'keeping my gab shut'. Also, I shouldn't have let my frustrations lead me into spats with those editors. I was wrong to allow my annoyances with the diacritics restriction, In ictu oculi & Daicaregos to push me towards Soviet related articles, aswell. Furthermore - I don't commit vandalism, never used sock-puppets or meat-puppets, rarely get into edit-wars & rarely drag editors to ANI. If arbitrators are certain that I can't change my ways? then it's impossible for me to convince them otherwise. GoodDay (talk) 14:25, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
As I've been a member of the Wiki-community for 8 yrs. I ask that Steven's request, be taken to the Wiki-community. GoodDay (talk) 12:59, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
To the arbitrators- I will mend my ways. A threat of a 1-year ban or site ban, will have that effect on a fellow. GoodDay (talk) 14:56, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Would a 1-month self-imposed ban, proove I'm capable of self-restraint? Would that stave off the 1-year exile? GoodDay (talk) 01:20, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
To the Arbitrators & the inputing editors - I acknowlege my 'thick headedness'. I do have a problem in that I loose my temper when someone disputes what I see as being correct. I have been agressive, paranoid & narrow-minded, with my I'm right, you're all wrong attitude & my You're all out to get me attitude. I haven't shown enough respect for WP:V aswell. I welcome any assistance from anyone, at this point. I'm stubborn enough to reform myself, but it would be easier to do, with friends guiding me along. GoodDay (talk) 05:39, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Begging for Arbcom's leniency - Seeing as my last 'block' was 1-month, I request that my approaching ban be reduced to 6-months. GoodDay (talk) 12:58, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Despite having agreed to 'mentor' GoodDay, I have had very little involvement since the topic ban was instituted. mea culpa. This has been mostly due to my being rather busier, but also due to the sheer tedious predictability of GoodDay's recurring patterns of misbehaviours distracting and detracting from his good contributions. I have not had the inclination to investigate GoodDay's ongoing behaviour in my scarce available time because doing so is extremely vexing. GoodDay portrays himself ever the victim, never the aggressor and manifold attempts by kind, experience, patient fellow-editors towards his correction have been frustratingly futile. I do not believe that anyone is beyond redemption, but GoodDay is, was and continues to be at best obtuse and at worst maddeningly obstinate and childish. DBD 15:13, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
I did my level best on the B&I articles but GoodDay seems to lack any ability to exercise judgement or learn. He seems to want to blame others and see himself as a lone warrior battling for truth. On his talk page he allowed himself to led on by an obvious sock to break the recently reimposed restriction. Checking out his other edits the behaviour has simply moved to other topic areas. I think he needs a holiday and a clear instruction that readmittance to the community is predicated on his showing evidence he has understood what he has done wrong ----Snowded TALK 15:25, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
An example on this talk page - responding favourably to this nonsense ----Snowded TALK 20:35, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
I haven't been involved with GoodDay to any significant extent and haven't investigated his behaviour. I feel though that clarification of the remedy is required to determine who may impose the sanctions it warns about.
The remedy reads:
GoodDay is strongly warned that, in the event of additional violations of Wikipedia's conduct policies (especially of the nature recorded in this decision as findings of fact), substantial sanctions, up to a ban from the project, may be imposed without further warning by the Arbitration Committee.
This can be read two ways, in both cases assuming that GoodDay has violated conduct policies (and I am explicitly not expressing an opinion on whether this is true):
In the first interpretation it is not specified who may impose such sanctions, but I suggest that "an uninvolved administrator following a consensus at WP:AN/I or WP:AE" would be suitable. In the second interpretation a simple motion by the committee would seem to all that is required to impose any appropriate sanctions.
Even if GoodDay is not deserving of sanction at this point, clarification would be useful going forward. Thryduulf (talk) 18:48, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
The law of diminishing returns has apparently set in. It's distressing to see the efforts of the experienced and heroic users who have tried to assist and educate GoodDay being wasted, when they could be doing so many more useful things for Wikipedia, and having a much better time. Since all three seem to have found him unteachable, I think he's done here. Bishonen | talk 21:02, 16 April 2013 (UTC).
I request that his sanction is amended to include a topic ban for Eastern European topics.
GoodDay was strongly warned by the committee not to violate Wikipedia's conduct policies, especially of the nature recorded in this decision as findings of fact [22] and [23]
since that time GoodDay has continued to engage in battleground and uncollegial conduct and continues to cast aspersions about groups of opposing contributors
And he has failed to conduct himself with due professionalism:
Considerable discussion was conducted during an RFC [30], in which he strongly opposed any compromise to his long held position[31],[32],[33],[34]. At some point he observed that "the last one to actively oppose using Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia as the birth-countries "[35] begins to make disruptively WP:POINTy edits in other articles contrary to his own position and despite the RFC still being open and unresolved: [36],[37] [38],[39], [40],[41] [42],[43] [44],[45] [46],[47] and so one for many other BLPs
GoodDay then massively expands his WP:POINTy efforts to other Eastern European hockey related articles [48] (edit comment "per silent consensus at Baltics Rfc") [49] [50] [51] [52] ... and so on for a total of 28 templates, then cites the lack of participation by members of WP:HOCKEY in the RFC in response[53] a subsequent complaint over these pointy edits in a thread started by him titled Baltic no-shows
Then he was warned to stop [54], reminding him that his behaviour is similar to that got him topic banned from diacritics and British Isle topic[55]. GoodDay tells Resolute to not to post in his talk page[56] and deletes Resolute's warning, calling it "harassment"[57]
Warned again[58] and again[59], responds by justifying his edit warring as "protecting the project" from "Baltic nationalists" [60]
Now he continues to make disruptive behaviour across multiple Eastern European articles
while apparently trolling here and elsewhere, which was subsequently removed[67] and given yet another warning of the consequences of such behaviour[68]
Resolute stated in an earlier Arbitration amendment request where GoodDay unsuccessfully sought to have his sanction lifted:
DJSasso also stated in that amendment request:
The same obsessive-compulsive behaviour is now occurring in Eastern European topics. Being topic banned from British Isles and Diacritics, it now appears that GoodDay has now shifted his focus to Eastern European topics and now again is the centre of more controversy. --Nug (talk) 21:04, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
I wasn't going to comment, but Nug dragged me into the discussion, so: Given his own battleground mentality in this topic area, Nug is likely commenting because he believes it will help him win his war. His argument may be valid, but I find it rather hypocritical and therefore distasteful.
As I said in the comment Nug references however, GoodDay thrives on being around conflict. And the EE problem is a parallel of the BI problem. We are really down to two options at this point. Remove GoodDay from all conflict areas, or remove him from Wikipedia entirely. A long time ago now, I recall an editor (don't remember who) who was given an edit restriction of no more than one comment on a talk page discussion, except for noticeboard discussions about that editor specifically and on their own talk page. Such a restriction would allow GoodDay to remain on Wikipedia and do gnomish edits (though only if he makes a conscious effort to avoid potential conflict areas), while shortcircuiting his ability to participate in drama. However, as much as I hate to admit it, Bishonen's comment about diminishing returns is apt. Even this suggestion may not be sufficient to eliminate the problems, nor may anything but a site ban be desirable at this point. Resolute 22:38, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Support amending the sanction to include a topic ban for Eastern European topics. I've been marginally involved in the conflict, but less so than Nug. However, diffs provided by Nug clearly show that GoodDay is disruptively searching new and new articles to pursue his grudge against a number of Baltic users, whom he contrary to policies labels as revisionists or nationalists. When confronted due to his edit warring that is supported by NO basis whatsoever, ZERO sources, he fails to provide anything that would substantiate his position, apart from general WP:IDONTLIKEIT arguments [71]. A topic ban is doubtlessly in order here.Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 14:30, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
The issue with GoodDay is that he always does things that he knows are likely to cause trouble and then when he gets caught he tries to play the innocent victim who didn't realize what he was doing was wrong. For example he did this a number of times with the original Arb decision and trying to say he didn't understand that "anywhere on the wiki" included his talk pages and was blocked a couple times for it. He now states "To the arbitrators- I will mend my ways. A threat of a 1-year ban or site ban, will have that effect on a fellow. GoodDay (talk) 14:56, 17 April 2013 (UTC)" However, in the Arbitration Case it was brought up that he could be site banned. And there were 4 arbs who at that time who voted in favour of it. He already has had the threat of a 1-year ban and it didn't change him. -DJSasso (talk) 15:08, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Reluctantly adding my voice here, as (contrary to what GD probably thinks) I do not want to see him banned, I want to see him change. But, I know that won't happen. The fact is that GD is devoted to Wikipedia - for hour after hour after hour every day - but after seven years still does not understand how editors should behave. I don't think I could put it any better than this essay: "If a user has behavior problems that disrupt the collective work of creating a useful, encyclopedic reference, then the editor's participation in Wikipedia may be restricted or banned. These problems may be caused by personal immaturity, an inability to properly apply Wikipedia's policies, poor social skills, or other reasons.... In some cases, those actions [to improve behaviour] will ultimately be ineffective, and action must be taken to stop the disruption of the encyclopedia. This requires that Wikipedia editors accept our limitations at changing behavior or policing it, admit that we are not equipped to engage in extended efforts to change or improve someone's behavior, and follow the usual procedures to request a block or ban. Ultimately, it is not the responsibility of the community to develop or enforce a plan that enables the editor to be successful." I agree with all of that. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:53, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Eight years of giving one's free time and energy to a project has to count for something. I propose one final chance at reform before imposing the year long ban. After this lengthy service at Wikipedia GoodDay deserves that. --Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:26, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Yes, GoodDay spends a very long day, each and every day, here on Wikipedia and it isn't healthy. Bluntly, his contributions indicate that he has rather modest literacy skills but his knowledge base in some areas is impressive. Herein lies the problem. Some have attributed cleverness in pot-stirring or deftness in his repeat actions after a period of lying low on a topic. I don't think this is correct. I would say that GD has a genuine lack of clarity of thought as to the consequences of his actions. He does, I think, really believe that on some areas he is on a crusade to right the wrongs (in his mind) of WP. He has been a nuisance, that is undeniable but I'm sure he actually has the project at heart and I would suggest that a lengthy ban is inappropriate for GD. I felt from the start that the mentoring system wasn't going to work for GoodDay. What he needs is to be shown how to put his knowledge base, eg in North American politics, North American sport to good use by writing/improving such articles. There are many who would show him the basics of article writing, how to do the research and help him writing the articles. Starting with stubs and then developing and collaborating to boost them into well developed articles. Jeanne boleyn has previously offered to do such help. GoodDay should commit to doing this and NOTHING else. He should impose on himself a reduction of his time on this site. He should restrict himself to the talk pages of those articles he has properly edited. He should put wiki-gnoming behind him as this causes problems. This I feel could turn him around into an asset if he applies himself. If he doesn't or lets it slide, well....Bill Reid | (talk) 12:17, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
I am not involved in any of this, but GoodDay spends a long day at Wikipedia and I have to agree that he has engaged in further violations of our policies, specifically the ones regarding the conduct. Even if the regular established editors tried to help him (I am one of these editors, having been with the project for over 6 years and contributed extensively to Wikipedia), these violations are utterly disgraceful to the community as a whole. Thus, I think a ban on this user should work until he changes his misbehavior. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 16:01, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
It seems like GoodDay is contrite and pleading for leniency. I've often wondered in cases like this, instead of an x–month long banishment, why not put the offending editor to work on the 'chain–gang' as a way to repay the debt to the community caused by their disruption – by imposing an editing restriction that only allows them to work on WP:BACKLOG items? Does this kind of decision ever occur or is it too hard to enforce? Seems like a win–win situation. Mojoworker (talk) 00:01, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
For this motion there are 11 active arbitrators, not counting 2 recused. With 0 arbitrators abstaining, 6 support or oppose votes are a majority.
In remedy 2 of Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GoodDay, GoodDay (talk · contribs) was warned that "in the event of additional violations of Wikipedia's conduct policies (especially of the nature recorded in this decision as findings of fact), substantial sanctions, up to a ban from the project, may be imposed without further warning by the Arbitration Committee". It is apparent from the submissions in this amendment request that GoodDay has engaged in further violations of Wikipedia's conduct policies. Accordingly, GoodDay is banned from the English Wikipedia for a period of no less than one year. After one year has elapsed, a request may be made for the ban to be lifted. Any such request must address all the circumstances which led to this ban being imposed and demonstrate an understanding of and intention to refrain from similar actions in the future.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by GoodDay at 12:26, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
It's been nearly 3 years since I was restricted from diacritics & almost as long since I've breached my restriction. It appears that I've shown the ability of restraint since that time. I'm requesting that my restriction on diacritics be lifted, as it's simply no longer required to keep me restricted from that area. GoodDay (talk) 12:38, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
I won't be edit warring over article titles, content or infoboxes. Nor will I be filibustering over the issue at talkpages. GoodDay (talk) 15:54, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm not certain if it's relevant here. But, I have never committed sock-puppetry or evasion, in order to get around my restriction. GoodDay (talk) 15:46, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
Seeking clarification - If 0RR is adopted. What would the penalty be for a breach? GoodDay (talk) 10:45, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Seeking clarification - Does the proposed 0RR & lone comment on talkpage, apply to my userpage & its talkpage? GoodDay (talk) 12:35, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
A request - If my restriction is amended, would those of you here inform me (clearly) what the conditions will be? PS- I'm hoping a probationary period of 6-months will be considered, afterwards (if no breaches occur in those 6-months) my restriction will be fully lifted :) GoodDay (talk) 12:05, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
FWIW, a few years ago, I recommended that English Wikipedia adopt a mechanism with an on/off button for diacritics. Those who wanted to see dios, could press the on button & those who didn't want to see dios, could press the off button. I'm guessing that nobody had the technology to create such a mechanism. I really felt it would've ended all disputes (content & personal) over diacritics. GoodDay (talk) 02:11, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
If I may, AFAIK, I was never blocked for edit warring over diacritics. My problems were mainly on the talkpages, where I would loose my cool with those supporting dios. GoodDay (talk) 02:29, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
FWIW, the successful WP:HOCKEY compromise we've been mentioning, is currently under threat of being scrapped by 2 or more editors who've little to no interest in ice hockey articles, at Wikipedia: Naming conventions (ice hockey). Restricted or not, there's little to nothing I can do about it. Thus the nature of Wikipedia. I'm fully aware of my limitations on Wikipedia. Again (for examples), I would prefer that British be used across British bio articles, but I accept that this won't be adopted. Also, I prefer the Soviet Union be used for the birthplace and/or deathplace of those Baltic people for the 1940-91 period, but I accept that this too, won't be adopted. GoodDay (talk) 09:50, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
Suppose the Hockey compromise was abolished in favour of full-diacritics usage. What would an un-restricted GoodDay do about? one might ask. My question is - What could GoodDay do about it? The answer to that would be nothing at all. It would be a big waste of GoodDay's & WP:HOCKEY's time, for him to filibuster on hockey-related talkpages. He certaintly isn't going to edit war over it, as that would lead to a block under normal circumstances alone. So you see folks, I'm fully aware of the landscape across Wikipedia having changed in the last 3 years. One editor (In ictu oculi) 'alone', has moved hundreds of article to dios titles, sometimes unilaterally & sometimes with RM support. How far could I get, if I were to attempt to reverse any of those moves. How far would I get in attempting to remove dios from article content. TBH, How can I be dangerous, if I've little to no support in the diacritics topic? The consensus 'here', seems to be that GoodDay is no longer a problem due to the changed landscape, yet he should 'atleast' be fitted with an 'security ankle bracelet'. GoodDay (talk) 20:58, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
To the arbitrators - Would you consider a month-to-month (up to 6-months) probation? It's very difficult for me to prove that I won't cause disruption, if I'm kept restricted. GoodDay (talk) 15:32, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
To the arbitrators - May I have my Userpage/talkpage exempted from the restriction? GoodDay (talk) 21:18, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
To the arbitrators - If a consensus is reached at WP:HOCKEY and/or the rest of English Wikipedia to use diacritics everywhere, then I'll abide by it. GoodDay (talk) 18:03, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
A final request to Arbitrators - May I please have my talkpage 'exempted' from this restriction? GoodDay (talk) 01:52, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
Request to Arbcom - PLEASE close this down :( GoodDay (talk) 19:22, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
I'm only here because I saw the notice posted to Steven Zhang's talk page, which I stalk due to Steve's and my common interest in dispute resolution and the fact that he only occasionally comes around these days. I wasn't involved in the original case, nor have I had any prior dealings which were either so good or so bad with GoodDay that I can recall them.
I'm not necessarily opposing this, but I have to say that it seems suspicious to me. Why would any editor who doesn't have a bee in his/her bonnet about diacriticals care about whether or not s/he can edit or discuss diacriticals? In all my time here, I cannot recall ever caring about that issue, and though perhaps I'm just projecting my own apathy/lazy-editorism onto everyone else, I can't imagine anyone else caring about it enough to bother with this filing unless that bee is still buzzing around in their bonnet. (I do get it that a topic ban is kind of a black smudge on one's reputation and that one might want it removed for that reason alone. But not coming out and saying that kind of bespeaks some suspicion of its own if that's the reason.) If I were y'all, I think I'd want some additional explanation from GoodDay other than, "it's been a long time and I've been good," and perhaps a promise that even if the ban is lifted that s/he will continue to avoid doing the things that the ban covered so as to demonstrate and to continue to demonstrate that the Ɓ (that's a B with a diacritical or, by extension, a diacritical bee) is defunct. Best regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 14:26, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
Prior to his site ban, GoodDay had been topic-banned - here - from contributing "from pages relating to the United Kingdom and Ireland, broadly construed." Since being released from his ban, GoodDay has returned to his old habits of contributing his opinions repeatedly and unconstructively on UK/Ireland matters - for example here and here - in exactly the same way as he always did. Having failed to learn any lessons as to his behaviour in relation to UK/Ireland matters, I think it is improbable, to say the least, that his behaviour will change in relation to the use of diacritics, were that topic ban to be lifted. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:37, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
GoodDay's statement doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If there's an area in which there is an agreed compromise, any editor on Wikipedia can make any of the changes GoodDay says he's interested in. Why do we need someone who's been a significant problem in this area back again? I believe that the Committee should turn down this amendment request, as I see no value to the project in allowing it. BMK (talk) 05:08, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
@TransporterMan: (and GoodDay) - Thanks for the heads up on this one. I'm really in two minds here. As a former banned editor myself (back about 8 years ago now?) I agree that past actions shouldn't hang over one's head for all eternity, especially if it's clear one has changed their ways. After a period of time, one should almost always be given a second chance. That said, I do have concerns about an outright lifting of the ban - diacritics was the issue that got GoodDay in trouble back when I mentored him, leading to the GoodDay case where this topic ban was placed. He was later banned, and it has since been lifted. It's been some time since then, but I'd still be uncomfortable with an outright lifting of the ban.
I like the idea presented by Courcelles of a 0RR on diacritics, and I'm not sure he needs to provide a detailed explanation as to why he wants to be able to edit them - yes, this may come as a surprise, but with AGF and all, I think "I won't stuff up again" will suffice. If his edits are really uncontroversial, they'll stick, if not, someone will revert them. If he causes trouble, well, the Arbitration Committee can impose sanctions again, so I'd say lifting the ban on a 0RR condition would be the way to go, making it clear that if it is broken or trouble starts again, sanctions can be imposed, up to and including sitebans. Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! 06:30, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
@GoodDay, that goes without saying to be honest - and that you bring up the idea is rather troubling... Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! 22:15, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
@GoodDay, saying "I didn't sock or evade to get around my topic ban", to me, makes me think that you may have considered it as an option at one point, otherwise you wouldn't even have mentioned the idea, if not the case, then I'm curious as to why you would mention it. It troubles me somewhat. Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! 22:25, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
@GoodDay, thanks for explaining. Part of me wonders why you want to be able to edit diacritics, as, well, there's so much else to edit (though after a year and a bit away, I admit I'm back to the same things I used to be - dispute resolution), but as I said in my statement, I don't think there's a need to explain yourself, as long as you keep your nose clean - a 0RR restriction is reasonably safe and I'm sure you understand what might happen if you break such a restriction/cause trouble. I'll end my involvement here (unless asked to comment again in an arb comment) - I'm sure they will come up with a resolution we can all live with. Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! 22:35, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
@GoodDay, I'd think the answer to that question would obviously be no :) Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! 12:56, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
@GoodDay:, can you 1) link to the compromise agreed on and 2) explain why someone else can't make these changes? I mean, on reflection, there's an awful lot of other stuff you could do in WP:BACKLOG... Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! 00:54, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
@GoodDay: where is the discussion where this compromise was discussed and decided? Curious as to how this compromise works in with the guideline. Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! 01:17, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
@GoodDay, that's not really an answer...if I was making changes to articles as per a compromise that was once discussed (and may or may not be in line with the documented naming conventions guideline) I'd want to have the discussion link handy. Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! 01:31, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
@L235: - this request has been here for around a month now and with 7 arbs declining, can this now be archived/closed? Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! 01:38, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
I think after three years, it would be fair to give GoodDay a fresh chance. That being said, GoodDay - you still gravitate towards drama like a moth to flame, so I do think an interim restriction would still be necessary. Personally, I am not thinking of 0RR, but rather a talk page restriction of one comment per sub-section of a debate, responding only to comments directed at you specifically. Otherwise, you're playing a risky game. Chances are your passions will plant you right on a treadmill right off Wikipedia, since I can't see the community being terribly lenient if we ended up back at square one. Resolute 19:16, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
@Steven Zhang:, @GoodDay: - The hockey project's compromise dates back to 2007. Somewhat ironically, it was GoodDay himself who seemed to have proposed it. Looks like the idea coalesced into a local guideline in June 2007. At the time, there was polls being done in wider Wikipedia context, but nothing approaching consensus. The hockey project was, at the time, something of a focal point for it, with a lot of arguing and reverting. A few of us old timers have referred to it as the "diacritics war". The compromise largely quieted that. Of note, I was probably even more opposed to diacritics then than GoodDay was, but have long since swung toward supporting them outright, so personally I don't really enforce it. I'm not pushing to re-open that debate, but the no-diacritics argument is growing increasingly tenuous as a handful of NA teams have begun to use them regularly, including the Montreal Canadiens. My honest advice to GoodDay would be to simply tolerate them, even if he doesn't accept them. It's a losing fight. And with a 0RR restriction, not he could win. But if he wishes to try hiding the accents on those pages, once, I see no harm in it. If others revert, he has to consider stepping back. Resolute 01:45, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
I have a similar concern to Ghmyrtle in that GoodDay seems to be returning to old habits of throwing in comments that are either provocative or not helpful on B&I pages. However if is prepared to make an absolute commitment to stop that then I would agree a fresh chance. ----Snowded TALK 09:55, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
I would have to agree with Transporterman. If someone doesn't care about them longer there doesn't seem to be a reason to request a lift of the restriction. Seeing that he has returned to his ways on the B&I pages after that one was lifted. And seeing that he still manages to get involved in drama for seemingly the sake of causing drama in other topics I don't really believe this will end well. Not for the project and likely not for GoodDay who quite probably would see himself shuffled off the wiki again. Likely this request comes from seeing a new person on the polar opposite side of the scale from him pushing to move to using them everywhere as linked to below. If that is the case it wouldn't be good. I wouldn't be opposed to a 0RR with reinstatement of his site ban for a breach. -DJSasso (talk) 12:54, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
@GoodDay That last comment about the "compromise" being under attack and you not being able to do anything about it displays exactly why you need to be under these restrictions. You can't help yourself from jumping into hotzone issues. If the people who oppose it open an RfC on the issue, it will be discussed and a consensus or non-consensus will be determined. Your one voice probably would not sway the discussion much on one direction or another. It would only serve to get you in more trouble. And based on past discussions I wouldn't hesitate to guess that your voice might actually harm your cause than help it. The wiki will work the issue out. It will either decide that they should be used or they shouldn't be used. -DJSasso (talk) 17:37, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
@GoodDay You aren't restricted because you are dangerous. You are restricted because you are disruptive. You waste a lot of peoples time. That is the trouble you can get into if you have your restriction removed. You aren't "in chains" to prevent you from effecting change. You are restricted because you cause a lot of disturbance and waste a lot of peoples time, filibustering and edit warring, and bringing up the topic of diacritics in every unrelated discussion possible to complain about the state of affairs. -DJSasso (talk) 22:22, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
Seeing as my name's been dropped ... I do want to say something in the interest of full disclosure. I was -- and remain -- on the same side of the issue as GoodDay: I strongly believe that the use of diacritics violates WP:COMMONNAME and doesn't belong on the English Wikipedia. The hockey project's compromise was much less anything in which any of us believed than the only feasible way to settle a prolonged conflict, and the only reason I'm content with it is in the years of bad feeling and edit warring it's averted.
An aphorism of mine, however, is the nature of a consensus-driven project like Wikipedia means that sometimes you're going to be on the wrong side of consensus, and your only recourse is to lose gracefully and move on. Some have an easier time with this than others, but perhaps GoodDay's managed this, at last.
I certainly wouldn't be opposed to an 0RR caveat, although this seems to be a lot of fuss to go through simply for a single editor to be able to make particular edits to an article or two. In any event, in GoodDay's defense, may I suggest that if he goes off the rails again, there are likely to be several editors who will lose no time in seeking much harsher restrictions, and have few difficulties in getting them imposed? Ravenswing 05:37, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
I think there would be a benefit to the encyclopedia if the ArbCom would not condition every requested lifting of restrictions on whether it foresees that there might be some benefit to the encyclopedia.
As a rule of thumb, 6 months of editing within the restrictions and 250 conforming edits should suffice in most cases. You could tweak those numbers, but there ought to be a rule of thumb like that for evaluating the lifting of restrictions that is acceptable most of the time. Italick (talk) 21:26, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by GoodDay (talk) 17:11, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
May I please have my diacritics ban lifted. I believe there's no longer a reason for it to exist, as it appears that the topic itself has been settled by the general community, in favour of dios usage. GoodDay (talk) 17:11, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
Response - I'm no longer obsessed about diacritics. I merely wish the restriction removed, because it's a restriction. I wish for my slate to be clean. GoodDay (talk) 18:04, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
Response - If WP:HOCKEY has chosen to abolish the diacritics compromise & thus have chosen to include diacritics on North American hockey articles (including NHL team articles rosters), then I've no choice but to abide by it. GoodDay (talk) 18:59, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
If you believe the community has settled in favour of using diacritics, when is your position on our old compromise within WP:HOCKEY? Resolute 18:54, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
While I understand the reluctance of arbs and most commentators to remove this sanction, it would be nice to see some progress here.
GD claims, and we have no reason to misbelieve him, that he is "no longer obsessed with diacritics" - whereas those opposing his request have no stronger argument than "insufficient passage of time" - or the Catch-22 argument "anyone asking for a remedy to be lifted should be denied because the request shows that they are unreconstructed." Neither argument is appealing because both are ad-hoc and neither concomitant with a fair process.
Nonetheless concerns need to be addressed. What, then, should be done? There are a number of options that spring to mind:
Or indeed any combination of the above.
All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 22:34, 22 September 2015 (UTC).
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Initiated by GoodDay at 15:53, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Since I've been restricted (in June 2012), a new tool has been added to Wikipedia. This tool gives editors the ability to 'Thank' editors for their edits & posts, via a THANK button. My question is – Am I allowed to THANK editors for any edits or posts made in relation to my restriction diacritics? GoodDay (talk) 16:06, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Response to BMK – the 2 times that I was reported at AE for breaches of this restriction (both situations happened at my talk-page & my now deleted secondary talk-page), the results were a 1-week block & a 1-month block, respectively. I wanted to make absolute certain, a 3rd AE report wouldn't be made on me, merely because I THANKED anybody for making an diacritics changing edit or just posting about diacritics. GoodDay (talk) 02:25, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
Clarification – The only editors I would thank, would be those who's edits or posts I happen to agree with. I certaintly wouldn't pester any editor or editors, that I had differences with in the past concerning diacritics. GoodDay (talk) 18:12, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
Response to Steven Crossin – There seems to be a misunderstanding here. I'm not asking arbitrators for 'permission'. I'm asking arbitrators if my restriction covers 'thanking' editors. I'm seeking clarification & nothing more. GoodDay (talk) 05:23, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Having read over the opinons of arbitrators. It appears that none of them are forbidding me to thank editors in the area-in-question. Therefore, I'll thank editors on my own discretion. Fear not, 1 or 2 thanks per year, is hardly going to cause any disruptions. GoodDay (talk) 15:41, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
To Thryduulf – FWIW, I'm not under any IBAN. GoodDay (talk) 14:38, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
To Guerillero – I've no desire to try & influence anyone concerning diacritics. Your's is the first message to suggest penalties, regardless. If arbitrators want to officially or unofficially tighten my restriction via barring me from THANKING editors in this area? then so be it. I appreciate the clarification of this matter & will comply with your ruling. GoodDay (talk) 03:47, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
To all arbitrators – Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I planned to thank editors who made edits & posts that I agreed with. I wasn't looking to torment anyone. Anyways, I would appreciate it, if this request were closed. GoodDay (talk) 01:44, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
To GorillaWarfare – This restriction has been in place for 3.5 years, with arbitrators showing no signs of ever lifting or easing it. I think, I've been quite patient about it. I certaintly haven't been frantic, as there's been no f-bombs flying. :) GoodDay (talk) 22:46, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure why GoodDay thought it was necessary to bring this here, since he got fairly good advice when he asked the same question on WP:AN#Arbcom remedies a couple of days ago. It's not like ArbCom doesn't have a couple of other things on its plate at the moment. BMK (talk) 02:12, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
Kinda have to agree with BMK here, GoodDay. While not really objectionable and as the arbs say, there are worse things you could do, I'd encourage you to focus on other things. Probably a better use of your time, tbh. Steven Crossin (was Steven Zhang) 05:17, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Intitated by GoodDay (talk) 12:56, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
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Howdy. It's been over 4 years, since I was banned from editing around or mentioning diacritics on Wikipedia. I'm requesting that the ban be over-turned. GoodDay (talk) 12:56, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
As in my previous requests, I again promise 'not' to be disruptive in that area. GoodDay (talk) 13:38, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
Response to Arbitrator - A clean slate would be good. Mostly though, I want to work on the Ice hockey articles in that area. GoodDay (talk) 21:13, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
Response to Arbitrator - I wish to concentrate on fully implimenting WP:HOCKEY's wanting to hide/remove diacritics from North American-based ice hockey articles. As for the question of what's changed since my last requests? I'm feeling stigmatized by this near half-decade ban. GoodDay (talk) 22:47, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
Responses to Arbitrators - how to handle diacritics in ice hockey articles, is what I'm getting at. GoodDay (talk) 09:10, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
Response to Kelapstick - Exceptions are made in North American based hockey articles, concerning French Canadians. GoodDay (talk) 23:52, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Response to Kelapstick - I wouldn't go 'round the Salming article, which is a player article. But, I would un-diacriticize Salming in any NHL-based team, tournament, or any other non-player articles, like Toronto Maple Leafs (for example). GoodDay (talk) 01:05, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
Comment - Keeping an eye on things here :) GoodDay (talk) 11:39, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
Response to DQ - in my opening statement, I wrote that "it's been over 4 years since I was banned from editing around or mentioning diacritics...". How is that a misleading statement? GoodDay (talk) 09:12, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
Meh, it's been four years. I'd say lift the ban - ArbCom can always reinstate it if need be. I would pre-emptively disagree with people that state he needs to give detailed reasoning on why the ban should be lifted, I'd think after 4 years, a promise to behave is all that's really required, and he's done so. Steven Crossin 13:47, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
I agree with Steven. GoodDay has kept his nose clean for 4 years (wow .. that's a long time!) and I also think that asking for detailed reasoning at this stage would be unreasonable. His actions and good behaviour on this issue speak for themselves. -- HighKing++ 22:05, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
The last clarification request makes it clear that you were not staying clear of the topic area then - for example GorillaWarfare said "this does strike me as a frantic attempt to participate in the topic area without technically being in breach of a ban, which frankly makes me think the ban was a good decision." so saying now you've kept your nose clean for 4 years is a bit disingenuous. Being patient is a lot more than remaining civil.
In my then capacity as an arbitrator I said then, "I've commented previously that you (GoodDay) should completely stay away the topic area you were restricted from, and I'm going to reiterate that advice now – let it go.". Coming back here 7 months later is not letting it go, so I would repeat my advice and add that when I say "let it go" I mean you should essentially forget that the topic exists and have absolutely nothing to do with it for at least a year - preferably two. I recommend to the current Committee that this appeal be declined and that adding a minimum time of 1 year before the next appeal should be considered. Thryduulf (talk) 15:41, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
I see no acute need to modify the restriction, but I recognize this is a grave decision. If the sanction is lifted, I hope that GoodDay will be circumflex in his editing. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:07, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
I agree with Steven and support lifting the restriction on a provisional basis. If issues resurface after being allowed back to editing diacritics-related articles, then the topic ban can be reinstated at any time. I dislike the idea of permanent editing restrictions - they carry a stigma that lasts for as long as they are in place. These sanctions appear to have outlived their usefulness, so let's end them. Kurtis (talk) 20:55, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
In an earlier request for amendment, GoodDay stated "I'm no longer obsessed about diacritics." However with the latest statement indicating a desire to return to editing hockey player names, I believe this would result in a lot of wasted time arguing a matter that the English Wikipedia community as a whole has not managed to reach agreement upon. Thus I do not believe a removal of the topic ban would be beneficial to Wikipedia at this time. isaacl (talk) 03:14, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
@Callanecc: see Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey#Wikiproject notice for the compromise position on modified letters that had once been used by WikiProject Ice Hockey, and the amendment request from July 2015 for a discussion of the background of this compromise (in particular, the statement from Resolute). isaacl (talk) 03:31, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
As a way forward, perhaps the topic ban can be modified to permit discussion of modified letters on talk pages, while leaving the prohibition on editing article pages in place. User:Resolute had previously suggested a restriction of one comment per sub-section of a debate, and only in response to questions directed specifically to GoodDay. I suggest extending this to also allow a single comment in any RfC, poll, or other discussion where an opinion on the use of modified letters is specifically being requested from the community at large. This would prevent GoodDay from interjecting non-sequitur commentary on modified letters into other discussions, as has happened in the past. isaacl (talk) 18:16, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
@Opabinia regalis: the whole issue of modified letters is an unresolved one in the broader community; the last time a Request for Comment discussion was held, the expressed views were nearly equally divided between those who feel that usage should follow what a majority of English-language sources use, and those who feel that any source that does not use the original spelling with modified Latin letters is, by definition, not a reliable source with respect to the subject's name. In these discussions, the compromise position on modified letters of the ice hockey project has been challenged. Ice hockey project members have responded that once English Wikipedia reaches a consensus on how to manage names with modified letters, the ice hockey project will be happy to follow suit; until then, though, the compromise stops the project from wasting time discussing the matter. At this point in time, though, it's unclear that the compromise position continues to have support, but without anyone changing spelling in articles, there has been no need to debate it. A resumption in removing or adding modified letters may retrigger a long discussion, which is an ineffective use of time since no definitive conclusion can be reached until the community as a whole provides guidance. Thus I do not believe a change to the current state of affairs would benefit Wikipedia.
If any relaxation of the topic ban in article mainspace is entertained, I strongly suggest that a condition be attached: if an edit is contested, GoodDay must revert the change and all similar changes made to other articles. This discussion thread on GoodDay's talk page illustrates the usual approach taken: numerous edits are made in alignment with GoodDay's point of view, and when objections are raised, GoodDay says that others are free to revert if they wish. This imposes a burden on other editors to restore the status quo, which is a disruptive behaviour, as described in one of the principles in GoodDay's arbitration case. isaacl (talk) 05:36, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
@Opabinia regalis: the key concern is that it is primarily an overall pattern of behaviour that adds up to a great deal of wasted time, rather than any one isolated interaction. GoodDay usually does not edit war, and no one can be compelled to participate in discussion to reach a consensus if they do not wish. Although it is generally uncollegial to fail to revert a sequence of similar changes upon request, and disappointing for someone to engage in making a type of change across multiple articles without any desire to follow up with discussion, it is difficult to make either of these a hard-and-fast rule as there are too many exceptional cases. Thus it is unlikely an administrator will take any action without a new arbitration case to evaluate the pattern of behaviour, or without a specific remedy specified as a consequence of the previous arbitration case. I feel that having a condition in place to revert contested edits will help guide GoodDay to more productive interactions with other editors. Increasing the cost of making test edits counter to consensus will reduce the temptation to make them (particularly en masse). isaacl (talk) 03:45, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
@Opabinia regalis: Given that GoodDay already has exhibited the pattern of behaviour I described since returning to editing, including during this discussion, I'm not sure the best approach is to loosen restrictions with the expectation that if it happens one more time, there will be a different set of consequences. I have no interest in seeing GoodDay blocked; I would much prefer that the editor be channeled towards productive pursuits. isaacl (talk) 02:05, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
See Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (ice hockey): three broad discussions about the diacritics issue, the last one initiated less than a month ago. Doesn't seem like an area where the dust has settled.
Without prejudice what this means for this ARCA request: The OP's opinions in this matter may be as valuable as any other's (so that they should be allowed to edit in the area), or, alternatively, not a good idea to let the OP re-enter an arena where new surges of tension would not come unexpectedly? Maybe a transition period with no diacritics-related page moves without WP:RM and/or no diacritic-related WP:ENGVAR-like edits to articles without prior talk page agreement? --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:18, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
KelapstickOpabinia regalis The Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey page says:
The Wikipedia:Naming conventions (ice hockey) says (apropos of article names):
These look identical to me.
All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 11:53, 17 July 2016 (UTC).
User:HighKing wrote, "I agree with Steven. GoodDay has kept his nose clean for 4 years"
It's been two years, not four. From GoodDay's block log:
--Calton | Talk 15:02, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
I am of two minds on this: One is that GoodDay has managed to, so far, not cause major disruption on any British Isles-related articles since his ban against editing anything related to that topic was lifted. He has veered back there once or twice, but, appears to back down relatively quickly from conflict, knowing that acting in the opposite way will result in another topic ban or worse. However, the other mind says to me GoodDay still craves the drama of conflict to spice up the seemingly endless hours he spends on Wikipedia. This thriving on discord was noted before, during the discussion at ArbCom on amending restrictions against him, and, based on both recent and older personal experience, I hold the opinion that his craving has not been entirely satiated. That falls in line with his history of being difficult to reform and would suggest the more restrictions on GoodDay the better.
I suppose my conclusion would be: While we can assume good faith and recognize that it's entirely possible GoodDay won't return to old habits in the area of diacritics, lifting the ban will open that door for him again, returning to GoodDay the choice to go through it or not. And This is where I'll add that both the eagerness and the slightly misleading nature of GoodDay's request prompts me to raise an eyebrow in suspicion. Keeping the ban in place, however, ensures the door to disruption remains locked and, if GoodDay has managed to be a contributive editor with the ban in place, it can't hurt to leave it be. Though, modifications, such as those mentioned by isaacl, could be safe enough. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 18:06, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information.
Doug Weller talk 15:41, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
In addition, the topic ban will be reinstated should GoodDay be validly blocked by any uninvolved administrator for misconduct related to diacritics, broadly construed. Such a reinstatement may only be appealed to the Arbitration Committee. After one year from the date of passage of this motion, if the ban has not been reinstated, or any reinstatements have been successfully appealed, the topic ban will be vacated.
Enacted - Miniapolis 16:42, 11 August 2016 (UTC)