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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Since we have a near-edt war going on, let's sort out what I believe to be the core question. IMO the active participants here are better suited to sort this out:
Should her false claims of indigenous ancestry be covered in:
Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 00:59, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
She is a singer songwriter and did a lot of stuff … first paragraph should define what she is, not be about what she did wrongper North8000. Also
Any controversies about a person, no matter how significant they may be, should nearly always be avoided in the opening paragraph. Stylistically it also allows more chronological and in-depth coverage if the whole 'identity' topic is covered in its own paragraph, rather than screaming FAKE in the opening paragraph, without much nuance.Pincrete (talk) 12:43, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
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While working in these areas, her work has focused on issues facing Indigenous peoples of the United States and Canadafrom the first paragraph. Reviewing the article, the first paragraph should focus on her music career which is the main reason for her notability. Her activism and recent developments about her ancestry can be mentioned together later on in the lead. Nemov (talk)
Now a proper RfC |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Why wasn't this made into an fully fledged RFC? GoodDay (talk) 17:41, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
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Does the new formal RFC start here, or will a new, section heading (or less confusing section heading) be created for it? If it starts here, do the two questions that North8000 proposed at the top of this long thread constitute the formal request? This is unclear, and any editors who might chime in who haven't been following the talk page may find this confusing. (BTW, I have been active on the IPNA project for years and have written quite a few articles on Indigenous artists. I've been watching this talk page and this discussion for months but haven't chimed in yet.) Netherzone (talk) 19:24, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
I was not sure where to post my response to the RFC; it has been posted above before the heading called "RFC tag/Now a proper RFC?" Netherzone (talk) 23:43, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Many folks have invested substantial time giving their thoughts on this and we don't want their efforts to go to waste and have this unresolved so we should reach a conclusion. Responses have ended a while ago and a bot took the RFC tag off as expired. Should we ask for a close.
I have no strong feelings either but gave an opinion and so would be suspect in positing a close....but making a few notes: Looks like 5 folks said first paragraph and 9 said later in the lead. Good arguments were made on both sides. IMO there are only two ways an official close could end up with "later in the lead" being likely and "no consensus" being a possibility.
What do y'all think we should do next? Ask for a close? Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 15:15, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
Not a pressing issue but on an article about a US Citizen who is not a Canadian citizen on the talk page it says that the article uses Canadian English. Noted when my revert of a bunch of changes to Canadian english got reverted. North8000 (talk) 20:46, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
Not a pressing issue but per my OP above, I think that US English is the obvious logical choice. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:50, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
We are continuing to use sources that are clearly discredited. The PBS page for the "Carry It On" (so-called) documentary is an example of this, that is used in the second sentence of the current lead. The page references her repeatedly as indigenous and how speaking out as an indigenous person harmed her career. It's been reliably sourced that she's not indigenous, and her claims of being indigenous helped (and didn't hurt) her career. I didn't remove the sentence from the lead, as I know I would just be reverted. But, if it must be kept, lets do it with a source that actually checks its facts, and doesn't just repeat whatever the subject says of themself. --Rob (talk) 02:36, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
Britannica still retains Canadian-origin position, despite a recent update of the entry.
The Canadian Encyclopedia has adopted the current consensus. JohndanR (talk) 15:30, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
I've been trying to find a reference for the Billboard Best New Artist award. There has been an inconclusive discussion on this topic before (see Archive 3). Buffy's website currently says "1964 – Billboard Magazine’s Best New Artist". I've tried my best hunting around Google search and the only thing I've found related to this topic is a scan of Billboard from March 27th 1965.[1] On page 65 under Singles Reviews it says "Buffy Sainte-Marie-Until It's Time For You To Go. Warm delivery of class material from the gal voted as 'No.1 Folk Singer' in Billboard's 1964-1965 DJ Poll". This seems a very plausible contender for the Billboard award which over time has become misstated. I haven't been able to find any other sources for Billboard awards for 1964 or 1965, but maybe they're out there? Anyone know how to find that? Seaweed (talk) 16:11, 13 April 2024 (UTC)