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![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 7 July 2008. The result of the discussion was Keep. |
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I'm not sure why this was absent, but I added the information on movable type printing. All of the information I used are located in the wiki-linked articles for Shen Kuo, Bi Sheng, Wang Zhen, and Hua Sui.--PericlesofAthens 19:12, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
I just added further information on gunpowder in the lead for the 'Historical Debate' section. Have a look.--PericlesofAthens 15:04, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
This page is quite unsubtly ridden with contentious statements and biases implying some simple devices first discovered by the Chinese have had a "far-ranging global impact" when in fact it is debatable whether some of these technologies were invented independently elsewhere. It is for this reason I ask for the Francis Bacon quote to be removed from the context it appears; I ask for it to be moved to the "Historical Debate" section. I don't deny China played a great part in history (albeit in East Asia) but the Chinese are so proud of these achievements that its slightly ridiculous (I just cant help but think there could be some spin doctoring on the part of the CPC), the Romans and Greeks contributed more to the modern world then the Chinese could ever hoped to have but they don’t go on about it all the time, the Islamic World is how the Renaissance in Europe started in addition to this they invented/discovered distillation, purified gunpowder, the worlds first programmable robot and so much else, but there isn’t a page called "The 100 Great Inventions of the Islamic Golden Age", its just a modest page titled "Inventions in the Muslim world" the Indians invented the number system we use and zero which have had profound implications for mathematics ever since yet that not always highlighted so therefore why are the Chinese somehow special? I am not a racist or a Nazi I just think this over-glorification of rudimentary Chinese inventions is unjust and slightly bigoted. Be proud of your culture, I don’t deny anyone the right to that, but don’t over-emphasise it and deny contributions made by other peoples. Smarred Wolet 00:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
At first, this page appeared to be a debate over the historical claims and accuracy of the article, but then it went further into claims of bigotry and nationalistic pride, which is suspected but not entirely accountable.
This discussion page should be focused on the content of the article, not on what European Jews and Middle Eastern Muslims have contributed (it really has nothing to do with this article). Please, stay on topic! We're not here to present our own personal views; we're here to present the views of scholarly authorities.--Pericles of AthensTalk 09:38, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
I can't believe this egregious vandalism by 74.172.15.138 has gone by unnoticed by everyone since February 12. It is now April 2. Shameful. I just put this page on my watch list to monitor further vandalism. This article is quite a pathetic mess, and quite honestly, I don't feel like taking the time to clean it up and restoring it, simply to humor myself by waiting and seeing just how long it will take another editor to realize that this article has been 'kaput' since February 12. Again, I am shocked that I am the first to notice this.--Pericles of AthensTalk 04:32, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
It seems that the Bacon quote is a magnet for edit disputes. It's gone back and forth several times over the past 2 years. I think we should have a debate about it and decide how and if it should be included in the article: lk (talk) 08:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Since this is the basis of the 2008 Olympics opening ceremony, lots of references should be available to expand it past Needham. 70.55.200.185 (talk) 12:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
This article should cover the history of the designation. I'm told Needham was the originator of the recognition of these as a big four. That fact needs to be documented and put in the article. Similarly, if the Bacon quote is in the article, but doesn't reflect a recognition by him that they came somehow from China, that should be mentioned. Mark Foskey (talk) 18:29, 24 September 2008 (UTC) lol —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.233.81.200 (talk) 02:51, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Most dates in this article are not ancient. They are medieval. Suggest changing the title of this page to Great Inventions of ancient and medieval China. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.18.205.148 (talk) 23:54, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
This is misleading. These are known as the Four Great Inventions in Chinese, and the article should probably be called Four Great Inventions (China), seeing as out of the four, only one (paper) was actually made in Chinese antiquity, while the other three date to the medieval period. --dab (𒁳) 12:13, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Checking the quotes in the footnotes, I found that they did not refer to "four" inventions, nor did any of them call the inventions "great." I adjusted the text to reflect this, and made other adjustments to the lede. In light of this finding, I'm not sure that the rest of the article is useful. Perhaps it should be merged into List of Chinese inventions, though I do not feel strongly enough about it to start the process. ch (talk) 05:03, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
I just made a partial revert of 2 edits:[1]
Firstly, china.org.cn is an official Chinese government information site published under the auspices of the State Council Information Office, and hence is a reliable source. See [2]
Second, the Beijing Review article is not an editorial expressing their own opinion, rather it is a report of the opinion of Chinese scholars. Hence, just like when the New York Times reports on the opinions on various economists, we attribute the opinion to the economists, citing the New York Times article, instead of attributing the opinion to the NYT. LK (talk) 03:01, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
I haven't been able to track down anything in Needham yet, the earliest mention I can find of the four inventions is in this book: Oriental and occidental culture : an interpretation, by Maurice Parmelee (1882-1969), Published: London : Williams and Norgate, 1929. On page 80 he writes: "China played an important part in four inventions which had a large share in the making of modern civilization—namely, paper, printing, gunpowder, and the compass."[7] There is also a Chinese book by Ning Huang from 1954 which is titled 中國四大發明 (Zhongguo si da fa ming, Four great inventions of China).[8], I haven't been able to locate any more information about this book. LK (talk) 08:44, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
1:Houfeng seismograph,it was invented by Zhang Heng for measuring directions of earthquakes. 2:The Celestial Globe,it was useful for the astronomical development in China. 3:Shenzhou V,It was China's first manned spacecraft in 2003 and was sucessfully laubnched. 4:The Three Gorges project:It is the largest water control project in the world.It benefits the region in terms of flood control,power generation and transport. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.247.131.154 (talk) 15:31, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
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Hi! Reference number 17 is listed as "Kreutz, p. 373", but this is the only place in the entire article/source list that mentions the name "Kreutz". How am I supposed to know which book/publication this is referring to? Could anyone please add the appropriate source to the source list? Bambi'nin annesi (talk) 14:17, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
Why is there no discussion about the political relevance of this topic? It is clear that the “Four Great Inventions” is a politically sensitive topic in a way that some random list of US or European inventions would never be. That context should form a greater part of the article, otherwise people will ask why it exists (as I see people have).
there are reports from China of government actions against those who question these inventions and their importance: https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3024372/chinese-teacher-suspended-belittling-great-inventions-online (I’m posting a link to SCMP since it is widely regarded as very aligned with the CCP, and thus can’t be accused of having an anti-China stance. It’s a story that illustrates the political relevance of this topic; not somehow canonical.) 61.69.234.196 (talk) 11:25, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
A fake quote attributed to Karl Marx and contradicted by Marx's own writings has been removed after a screenshot of it was posted to X (formerly Twitter) citing this quote as an argument against Wikipedia: "some of the worst source work I've ever seen on virtually all its pages that are primarily historical/political rather than scientific/mathematic." (see below link). A general review of content accuracy and source verification is in order.
https://twitter.com/realerjoetalley/status/1759718926328508569 RightQuark (talk) 07:44, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
somebody pointed out the iffy sourcing of the Marx Quote and claimed it was fabricated but it looks like the original quote (now seemingly removed) can be found here:
https://marxists.architexturez.net/archive/marx/works/1861/economic/ch35.htm
Not sure if anyone wants to address that. Including the quote seemed unnecessary in the article, but it wasn't fake and can be cited properly. 2600:1702:5B52:850:7816:9FF:E85D:AC5F (talk) 07:44, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
I feel like this has mostly content on how to make gunpowder, and not a lot on where it was made and what major military victories it was use in. This could just be me, but if it is possible I would like more context about what I mentioned to be added.
(The reason I am not editing it myself is because I currently I do not have experience.) Wasabi-The-LoreMaster (talk) 16:43, 17 April 2024 (UTC)