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Sanskrit documents refer to the Hindu Kush as Hind kshetra in short Hind Kash as frontier lands of India. "Kash as in Kashmir (pronounced as कश in Hindi, in English written as Kush)" word also synonym of frontier part of a "Kusha" grass. Hind Kash all around from Amu Darya (in Vedic Sanskrit Vakṣu (वक्षु) river) to Kashmir was Kshetra (place) for meditation and teaching by founders of Hinduism.

this seems doubtful, i dont think sanskrit referred india as Hind, it was persian corruption of sindh, regards. 202.188.53.130 (talk) 23:17, 7 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think it should be removed as well because its not a reliable source and the writer is not an expert on the region. Besides,the link is dead too. Akmal94 (talk) 03:39, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Xerxes931 revert

Xerxes931, why did you revert? I explained you can not give priority to one theory in the lede. Look at WP:Lede, you cannot give priority to just one theory and stick that in the beginning. Here[1] is a source that states there are "multiple possibilities", as Hindu Kush in Sanskrit is also known as "Parayatra Parvata", derived from "Hindu Kuh" meaning "mountain of Hind". Zakaria1978 (talk) 14:31, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hindu Kush has both Persian and Sanskrit meanings. In Persian Kush comes from Kushtan, meaning slay or defeat. While in Sanskrit, Kush comes from Kuh, meaning mountain. We shouldn't give WP:UNDUE weight to a single theory, especially when it's just that--a theory. Wareon (talk) 17:04, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The "single theory" is the one that has been widely used for centuries, and has the backing of plurality of sources. In fact, we should not be removing the most common understanding of the word's name simply because there are alternative proposed theories. The theories you mentioned should not be given WP:UNDUE weight to the point that we remove what the most common understanding of the name is. Alishernavoi (talk) 20:28, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I can't find "Kuh" meaning "mountain" in Sanskrit. The word for mountain appears to be Parvata or Giri. [[2]]Alishernavoi (talk) 21:27, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
" Hindu Kush in Sanskrit is also known as "Parayatra Parvata", derived from "Hindu Kuh" meaning "mountain of Hind"". Parayatra Parvata is maybe the name of the mountain chain in the Mahabharata. I can't find anything saying the name Hindu Kush is derived from that Sanskrit name, or vice versa. There is no lexical similarity between the two names. "Hindu Kuh" is very unlikely the origin of the Sanskrit name, since the word Hind and Hindu are Persian words that are not native to India or Sanskrit. Also, if you look at the UNDUE page, it says "fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources." The plurality of sources stick with the Hindu Killers definition. Alishernavoi (talk) 00:28, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Again, it’s not a theory, it’s a linguistic( per the Persian language, the official language of Afghanistan) and a historic( per Ibn Batuta) fact, unauthentic Indian sources looking for other meanings as a cope to the name don’t weigh anything, there is nothing to discuss, a medieval Moroccan geographer doesn’t have any bias or emotional feelings towards this topic, Indian authors surely have . --Xerxes931 (talk) 17:45, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Xerxes931, I request you to not reinstate it until the discussion is done. Wareon has also stated their reasoning as well. Also, it is WP:UNDUE, since there are other[3] linguistic roots. As Wareon stated: "In Persian Kush comes from Kushtan, meaning slay or defeat. While in Sanskrit, Kush comes from Kuh, meaning mountain." Zakaria1978 (talk) 18:34, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hindu Kush commonly is understood to mean killer of Hindus. Even several Indian sources say this. Whether you find this offensive or distasteful is not relevant. Several sources cite this meaning. This is the common understanding of the name, not claiming it is the only explanation, but it is the most common and therefore bears most weight.Alishernavoi (talk) 18:49, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Xerxes931, what you are failing to prove is my main point. Is "Hindu killer" the only claim? Both Wareon and I have demonstrated other claims. Per WP:Lede, you can't put one claim over others. Hindu killer is already mentioned several times in the body of the article. There is no need on the lede. Zakaria1978 (talk) 21:02, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You are not getting the point, Hindu-Slayer isn’t a “theory” or “claim” as you try to display it here, it’s a historical fact recorded by Ibn Batuta in the 14th century as well as being supported by the vast majority of major scholars today(All the sources are provided in the article). Your POV by feeling offended by the name doesn’t really matter, even less when unauthentic or Indian sources support it. As I said there isn’t anything to discuss on this topic, unless you are going to put your Indian blogs and other unauthentic sources over Ibn Batuta, Henry Yule or Erwin Grötzbach.--Xerxes931 (talk) 22:26, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Zakaria1978, the common understanding of the name is that it means Hindu Killer. Even the Allan source says this. It deserves to be in the lead, despite being politically incorrect, because this is the most common understanding of the name. The proposal of some alternate theories does not mean now that the meaning understood for 700 years is now void. I think the lead should include the Hindu Killers definition, and maintain in the etymology section a discussion of alternative theories.Alishernavoi (talk) 20:35, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand the logic here - because there is an alternative, we should dismiss the common understanding in which the plurality of sources agree that the meaning is "Hindu Killer"? Existence of alternative theories does not mean they should be given equal treatment. I think its sufficient to include alternative theories in the body, and keep the "common understanding" meaning in the lede.
Also Zakaria, its poor form to make a change, then demand that someone else form consensus to revert back to the version before you changed it. Alishernavoi (talk) 02:34, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Again, I explained earlier. Zakaria also made it clear. You are clearly WP:IDHT. There is a Sanskrit and Persian component. You can’t put one of those theories on the lead. That violates WP:LEAD as mentioned by me and Zakaria. Wareon (talk) 05:24, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have to disagree that there's a Persian and Sanskrit component. There is a widely accepted common understanding based on Persian, and there are alternative theories, some of which are based on Sanskrit. The two do not get equal weight since one is the common accepted definition dating back hundreds of years, and the other is not. Alishernavoi (talk) 20:35, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Saying it’s an potential WP:ATTACK PAGE basically proves that all the comments about this are lead by emotions and personal feelings, those who comment here against the meaning should re-read my last statement instead of ignoring it, there isn’t any major authentic scholar supporting the alternative meanings. The Hindu-slayer meaning is not a theory, Ibn Batuta never theorized anything, he visited the region and was one of the greatest if not the greatest medieval geographer in the Islamic world, he stated it as fact and his views are shared by major scholars today, a few Indian blogs and unauthentic sources do not outweigh Henry Yule, Erwin Grötzbach and all the other countless respected scholars supporting this meaning, let alone Ibn Batuta.--Xerxes931 (talk) 08:04, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Idk about y all but Xerxes931 has a very good point. I support him Chad Paktiawal (talk) 00:00, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is laughable that some draw fairy-tale-like etymologies like the theory about Sanskrit being the origin of the name, while nothing has been more clear. Every third party scholar outside Persian speaking countries and South Asia agrees what the etymology is, and what it means. Not only linguistically, but also historically and commonly the name is to mean "Hindu-Slayer". It's a very understandable Persian construction that any 4 year old Persian speaker could understand. Maybe those who are doubtful should learn some basic grammar from the languages that they argue about. And this is all ignoring the fact that the historical records are showing no compromise. Ibn Battutah is a clear example and a primary source. He lived around the same time when "Hindu-Kush" (Hindu Slayer) began to appear on Islamic maps. End of story. شاه عباس (talk) 02:54, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requesting comments

There is a discussion going on about the origins of the name "Hindu Kush" for which it appears there is no consensus reached.

Alishernavoi's view

The "common understanding" is that it mean Hindu killers or killer of the Hindus in Persian. This has been an interpretation of the name which has been mentioned as far back as the 1300s when Ibn Battura wrote:

After this I proceeded to the city of Barwan, in the road to which is a high mountain, covered with snow and exceedingly cold; they call it the Hindu Kush, that is Hindu-slayer, because most of the slaves brought thither from India die on account of the intenseness of the cold.

— Ibn Batutta, Chapter XIII, Rihla – Khorasan[1]
The understanding of the name is still commonly used:
  • [2] National Geographic Society. 1958. Such bitter journeys gave the range its name, Hindu Kush — "Killer of Hindus
  • [3]Ewans, Sir Martin; Ewans, Martin; Weber, Patrick; Carr, Robyn (14 November 2002). Afghanistan - A New History. Routledge. p. 1"lies the Hindu Kush, the 'killer of the Indians,' possibly so called in recognition of the Indian slaves who met their deaths as they were taken across its passes"
  • [4] Wink, Andew Al-Hind, the Making of the Indo-Islamic World: Early Medieval India and the Expansion of Islam 7th-11th Centuries "to the Great Desert and up to the Hindu Kush ("Hindu Killers")"
  • [5]Amy Romano (2003). A Historical Atlas of Afghanistan. Rosen Publishing Group. pp. 13–14. ISBN 978-0-8239-3863-6. "Afghanistan's Hindu Kush mountains - a name that literally means "Hindu Killers" - were most likely given their name because of the region's harsh lifestyle and the difficulty the mountains represented for outside travelers"
  • [6]Metha, Arun (2004). History of medieval India. ABD Publishers. of the Shahis from Kabul to behind the Hindu Kush mountains (Hindu Kush is literally "killer of Hindus"
  • [7]Runion, Meredith L. (24 April 2017). The History of Afghanistan, 2nd Edition. ABC-CLIO. ISBN 978-1-61069-778-1. The literal translation of the name “Hindu Kush” is a true reflection of its forbidding topography, as this difficult and jagged section of Afghanistan translates to “Killer of Hindus.”
  • [8]James Wynbrandt (2009). A Brief History of Pakistan. Infobase Publishing. p. 5. ISBN 978-0-8160-6184-6."In Pakistan's northwest are the Hindu Kush ("Hindu Killers")"
  • [9]Weston, Christine (1962). Afghanistan. Scribner. To the north and northeast, magnificent and frightening, stretched the mountains of the Hindu Kush, or Hindu Killers, a name derived from the fact that in ancient times slaves brought from India perished here like flies from exposure and cold.
  • [10]Knox, Barbara (2004). Afghanistan. Capstone. ISBN 978-0-7368-2448-4. Hindu Kush means "killer of Hindus." Many people have died trying to cross these mountains.
There are more such citations, but the point is that this is the common understanding of the name in the plurality of sources as used across decades over a wide variety of publications, including from India.

An issue has arisen because some users object to this name being used because some authors have put forth alternative explanations for the name's origins:
From the article:
  • According to Allan, the term Hindu Kush has been commonly seen to mean "Hindu killer", but two other meanings of the term include "sparkling snows of India" and "mountains of India" with "Kush" possibly a soft variant of Kuh which means "mountain"
  • Another theory suggests the word "Hindu" in Hindu Kush is derived from the same root as "sindhu," meaning river, while Kush is a variant of the Persian word for mountain.[11]
  • Another possibility is that the name may be from the ancient Avestan language, with the meaning "water mountain." [12]
  • A possible Sanskrit origin: from comments of Zakaria1978 who initially removed [4] the "Hindu Killer" meaning from the lead: "Here[1] is a source that states there are "multiple possibilities", as Hindu Kush in Sanskrit is also known as "Parayatra Parvata", derived from "Hindu Kuh" meaning "mountain of Hind"."
-I can't access this [5] source since it is on Google Books, but the title is "Mining in the Himalayas: An Integrated Strategy" by AK Soni if you can access it. However, Pariyatra Parvata seems to be the name of the mountains in the Mahabharata, and is not the root of the word "Hindu Kush", and it doesnt look like the two are lexically related.
Because these alternate theories exists, the users believe that the common understanding of "Hindu Killers" should NOT be listed in the lead. They think it is WP:UNDUE to give prominence to this theory. The WP:UNDUE says we should "fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources."
Zakaria1978 thinks that including the Hindu Killer theory in the lead is basically cherry-picking ("You cannot give priority to just one theory and stick that in the beginning" [6]) since other theories exist. Wareon agrees that selecting the Hindu Killer theory is biased since there are other theories too [7]. 1990'sguy chimed in to say there was no consensus for change, but he seems to be referring to reverting back to the status quo, without considering that the change from status quo was removing the definition from the lede, not including it.

My opinion is that the common understanding remain in the lead since that is the understanding most widely used, with the status-quo wording "commonly understood to mean 'Hindu Killers.'" This is in keeping with the spirit of the WP:UNDUE page. Selecting the "Hindu Killers" definition is not cherry picking since the plurality of sources refer to this definition, and this definition has been reported since the 1300s. The other theories aren't of equal weight, and it gives them undue weight by using their existence to overshadow the long-held historic view. This appears to be the same logic used by Xerxes931, who also contends that the status-quo remain in place.

What do you think?

Alishernavoi (talk) 21:17, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Ibn Battuta; Samuel Lee (Translator) (2010). The Travels of Ibn Battuta: In the Near East, Asia and Africa. Cosimo (Reprint). pp. 97–98. ISBN 978-1-61640-262-4. ((cite book)): |author2= has generic name (help); Columbia University Archive
  2. ^ The National Geographic Magazine. National Geographic Society. 1958. Such bitter journeys gave the range its name, Hindu Kush — "Killer of Hindus."
  3. ^ Ewans, Sir Martin; Ewans, Martin; Weber, Patrick; Carr, Robyn (2002-11-14). Afghanistan - A New History. Routledge. p. 1. ISBN 978-1-136-80339-0.
  4. ^ Wink, André,. Al-Hind : the making of the Indo-Islamic world. Boston. ISBN 9780391041738. OCLC 924274889.((cite book)): CS1 maint: extra punctuation (link) CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  5. ^ Amy Romano (2003). A Historical Atlas of Afghanistan. Rosen Publishing Group. pp. 13–14. ISBN 978-0-8239-3863-6.
  6. ^ Metha, Arun (2004). History of medieval India. ABD Publishers. of the Shahis from Kabul to behind the Hindu Kush mountains (Hindu Kush is literally "killer of Hindus"
  7. ^ Runion, Meredith L. (2017-04-24). The History of Afghanistan, 2nd Edition. ABC-CLIO. ISBN 978-1-61069-778-1. The literal translation of the name "Hindu Kush" is a true reflection of its forbidding topography, as this difficult and jagged section of Afghanistan translates to "Killer of Hindus."
  8. ^ [c] James Wynbrandt (2009). A Brief History of Pakistan. Infobase Publishing. p. 5. ISBN 978-0-8160-6184-6.;
  9. ^ Weston, Christine (1962). Afghanistan. Scribner. To the north and northeast, magnificent and frightening, stretched the mountains of the Hindu Kush, or Hindu Killers, a name derived from the fact that in ancient times slaves brought from India perished here like flies from exposure and cold.
  10. ^ Knox, Barbara (2004). Afghanistan. Capstone. ISBN 978-0-7368-2448-4. Hindu Kush means "killer of Hindus." Many people have died trying to cross these mountains.
  11. ^ Julyan, Robert (1984). Mountain Names. Mountaineers. ISBN 978-0-89886-091-7.
  12. ^ R. W. McColl (2014). Encyclopedia of World Geography. Infobase Publishing. pp. 413–414. ISBN 978-0-8160-7229-3.


Zakaria1978's view

I explained earlier, this claim can not give priority, as it is one of several claims. As mentioned in WP:Lede, you cannot give priority to just one theory and stick that in the beginning. Here[8] is a source that states there are "multiple possibilities", as Hindu Kush in Sanskrit is also known as "Parayatra Parvata", derived from "Hindu Kuh" meaning "mountain of Hind".

Also, Wareon explained: "Hindu Kush has both Persian and Sanskrit meanings. In Persian Kush comes from Kushtan, meaning slay or defeat. While in Sanskrit, Kush comes from Kuh, meaning mountain. We shouldn't give WP:UNDUE weight to a single theory, especially when it's just that--a theory." Zakaria1978 (talk) 03:42, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Xerxes931´s view

Alishernavoi already perfectly explained this with mountains of sources and I already elaborated on that in the previous talk above, the other users opposing it clearly have a bias towards this topic due to their Indian heritage, furthermore the Sanskrit meaning is simply just their own POV and hasn't even been sourced by them. Major scholars state the meaning in the lead, people dont really seem to understand that Hindu-Slayer isn’t a “theory” or “claim” as some users are trying to display it here, it’s a historical fact recorded by Ibn Batuta in the 14th century as well as being supported by the vast majority of major scholars today(All the sources are provided in the article). The POV by feeling offended by the name doesn’t really matter. As I said there isn’t anything to discuss on this topic, unless you are going to put a few unauthentic and meaningless sources over Ibn Batuta, Henry Yule or Erwin Grötzbach and countless other major scholars on this subject --Xerxes931 (talk) 15:13, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by editors

FWIW the status quo is irrelevant.
Bryan Henderson (giraffedata) (talk) 03:27, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't cherry pick, the plurality of sources mention the Hindu Killer theory as far back as the 13th century.Alishernavoi (talk) 23:25, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The plurality of sources say Hindu Killer, the existence of alternative theories does not discount this fact. Those other theories are actually marginal, and can be discussed in the body. As for anti-India POV, its hard to know where to begin with that accusation - this has been the understanding of the name for centuries before India was a country. That logic of POV can be used to also say that a pro-India POV is encouraging users to undo the politically-incorrect Hindu Killer name.Alishernavoi (talk) 23:34, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No problems with that Khestwol. I think those would be good too so go ahead and add them. Zakaria1978 (talk) 15:40, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done, also added Sanskrit Pāriyātra Parvata. I don't know why this word was not in the article lede? Khestwol (talk) 15:57, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is no need to spam every single name for the mountain range in the lead, Paropamisadae is another name for it too, you can add those however in the section of “other Names” --Xerxes931 (talk) 19:54, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Pāriyātra Parvata has no lexical similarity to the name Hindu Kush, and should be in the "Other names" section.Alishernavoi (talk) 23:25, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also, as far as I can tell, Pāriyātra Parvata is the name used in the Mahabharata. No indication of its widespread usage otherwise.Alishernavoi (talk) 23:41, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I like the fact that none of the users voting for oppose is responding towards the fact that all major modern scholars and secondary sources, as well as primary sources are in consensus about the etymology being translated as "Hindu-Slayer". --Xerxes931 (talk) 15:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is written as the "commonly understood to mean 'Hindu Killers'" which accounts for the possible different theories. However, the plurality of sources mention Hindu Killers as the meaning as far back as the 1300s.Alishernavoi (talk) 23:25, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ https://iranicaonline.org/articles/hindu-kush
  2. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored
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