Good articleAlbert Camus has been listed as one of the Philosophy and religion good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Did You Know Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 13, 2019Guild of Copy EditorsCopyedited
July 15, 2019Peer reviewReviewed
April 24, 2020Good article nomineeListed
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on May 23, 2020.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Albert Camus's novel The Plague is based on an epidemic in Oran, Algeria, and examines how a government could turn tyrannical?
Current status: Good article

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:13, 19 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Improved to Good Article status by Cinadon36 (talk). Self-nominated at 09:56, 25 April 2020 (UTC).Reply[reply]

  • Didn't he write a novel about the outbreak of a plague? Wouldn't that DYK attract more viewers in the current situation?--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 11:34, 2 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Yeap, that's clever but the article does not discuss that specific novel in depth. Would it still be ok? Cinadon36 16:48, 2 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Real life is consuming much of my time these days so pls excuse me for the delay. It might take me a week or so to fix it. Cinadon36 07:39, 6 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sure.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 08:46, 6 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Merci @Farang Rak Tham:. Is this sufficient? Cinadon36 12:53, 7 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Cinadon36: Yes, I think you could base a DYK item on that. I have been so bold as to rephrase the article a little.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 13:06, 7 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for your edit, English is not my native language and I am not particularly good at writing. Actually, one of my aims as a WP user is to improve my writing skills. Cinadon36 13:09, 7 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
How about ALT3: ... that Albert Camus based his novel The Plague on an epidemic in Oran, and examined how a government became a tyranny?--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 11:14, 12 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Much better! Cinadon36 07:51, 13 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: None required.

Overall: The contents match that of a Finnish website, but it is highly likely that this website copied from this article, and not the other way around. In the main hook, I suggest to change himself to he himself. As for ALT3, this hook I can't review myself, because it was my own suggestion. For now, I am passing the ALT1 hook. Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 12:00, 14 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I agree with the proposed suggestion to change himself to he himself. As for ALT3, it is surely more eye-catching and this is an important aspect of any hook of any kind. Cinadon36 13:46, 14 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Cinadon36: Of course, I personally like ALT3, but because I proposed it myself, I cannot review it—this is a rule of DYK reviews. For the same reason, you will have to insert the he himself yourself, for me to approve of the main hook. We can ask for a second reviewer to review ALT3.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 19:53, 15 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Are you interested to review the ALT3 hook, Gerda Arendt?Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 20:29, 15 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Main hook also approved. Leaving out as is more idiomatic, but it's correct English nonetheless.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 11:44, 16 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Wisdom Quote[edit]

Albert Camus has been credited with the phrase, "Do not walk behind me, I will not lead. Do not walk in front of me, I will not follow. Just walk at my side me, and be my friend." Do the Universities in France have some reliable sources for this?JohnEC Jr (talk) 00:30, 27 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nationality[edit]

The page has a note that refers to discussion on Camus' nationality on the talk but I don't see it. His parents are French but he was born in Algeria. He is Algerian, North African, or African, but he is not French. (User:Syzygyst/talk) 8/10/2023 — Preceding undated comment added 17:50, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

He was born in French Algeria with French citizenship to French parents and moved to France, what do you not get? He wasn't ever an Algerian citizen. NAADAAN (talk) 18:53, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Camus was born in Algeria as it was the official name of the territory during colonial period, however Algerian citizenship at the time did not exist which means that Camus was french only in legal terms as he did not have Algerian paperworks, but he did have a French and an Algerian nationality as he was indeed born in Algeria and had french origins.
Citizenship and nationality are two different terms that are being confused
citizenship and nationality a often used interchangeably but the have a slightre 105.101.165.35 (talk) 17:36, 18 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
But they have a slight difference that should be looked into 105.101.165.35 (talk) 17:38, 18 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If there is a source that shows that Camus sought Algerian citizenship after Algeria obtained its independence, I will be free to add it as such. However, stating that he's Algerian based on Algerian nationality laws would possibly count as WP:OR. Most Americans can get another citizenship based on their ancestry, yet they are still counted as American since they never filed a claim for citizenship under their jurisdiction. As a matter of fact, a quasi-totality of Jews and their descendants can obtain Israeli citizenship per the Law of Return, but it would be insincere to label every Jew as a "French-Israeli", a "German-Israeli" or an "Israeli-American". I hope that's enough. NAADAAN (talk) 19:37, 18 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As I mentioned before Camus did not have citizenship but nationality a distinction should be made between the two, nationality doesn't require paperworks and documents just the simple fact that Camus was born in Algeria please look into the difference between citizenship and nationality. 41.220.149.195 (talk) 10:25, 19 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Under Algerian nationality law, nationality by birth is reserved for persons born to at least one parent with Algerian nationality. His parents, being born in France, would make him ineligible for Algerian nationality. Hence being born in Algeria does not automatically make one a national. NAADAAN (talk) 23:08, 20 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@NAADAAN I think that you should consider the fact that Camus considered himself as an Algerian, that he was part of Algeria and that this country was his motherland.
Even if it changed and Algeria got its independence, why should it be that Camus is no longer algerian? Germany split into two countries, but still all the people born in West Germany or East Germany are of German nationality, no? As a matter of fact, Germany changed more than once, nevertheless, I never saw any "german" born in Prussia being called anything but "German".
For me, there is a double standard here that you need to rectify. 2A02:8440:A104:9EE3:0:45:B3A9:6601 (talk) 08:46, 30 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
He died prior to the founding of an independent Algeria in 1961, whereas he wouldn't have gotten Algerian citizenship or nationality eitherway. Per MOS:NATIONALITY Camus held French citizenship with a French passport and was a permanent resident of France when he became notable -- this is irrelevant to how he felt about the independence of French Algeria. He was residing in Metropolitan France when his literary career began until his death and held a French passport -- this makes him French. NAADAAN (talk) 14:55, 30 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Albert Camus was born in Algeria and later moved to France. This is the case for many people during that period who have both French and Algerian heritage.
He can be considered Franco-Algerian, similar to Zidane and others. He often expressed his love for both countries and was against the war. During the Algerian War, many figures who were born in Algeria under French colonization, they hold French citizenship, and they are mentioned as Algerians in the articles. Nationality was relative to the context of that particular period of time. I hold a differing perspective from @NAADAAN, as he adopts a theoretical approach to that period and disregard the entire context.
Regards Riad Salih (talk) 17:23, 30 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"Expressing love" is far from a pledge of allegiance, let alone citizenship or nationality. Your "differing perspective" differs from MOS:CITIZEN which requires "where the person was a citizen, national, or permanent resident when the person became notable" and that "neither previous nationalities nor the country of birth should be mentioned in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability". Despite its subject matter, The Stranger was published when Camus was living in Metropolitan France. I was unable to find any WP:RS source demonstrating that Camus was Algerian, so I would appreciate if you provided the articles supposedly written during the war. To determine previous consensus, looking at the articles for other notable pied-noirs (whether in Morocco or France) only describe them as "French", not "French-Algerian" or "French-Moroccan". NAADAAN (talk) 17:37, 30 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not saying that expressing love is an argument here. You gave the example of the Blackfeet, which is not really the point I'm making.
Let me provide another example to illustrate my viewpoint. Ahmed Ben Bella was born in Algeria, joined the French army, and fought in World War II. During that time, there was no Algerian nationality. Even though he later became the first president of Algeria after its independence, would he be considered a French citizen? Similarly, take the case of Larbi Ben M'hidi, who was born in Algeria during French rule and died before independence. Would he be considered French? The concept of nationality and citizenship during that time was relative, unlike the clear policies we have in the modern world regarding citizenship. Albert Camus is widely known as a North African and European figure, and his most famous book, 'The Stranger,' depicts Algiers. It's important to note that comparing Morocco to Algeria is not valid as the contexts are vastly different. We can continue to discuss and argue if you'd like.
If we consider the notability argument, Camus was indeed notable during his time in Algeria. If you believe otherwise, please explain the reasons. Regards Riad Salih (talk) 18:08, 30 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
He is a pied-noir, which had different status as the "indigenous" in French Algeria. Per French Wikipedia, "indigenous Muslims" were considered to be French subjects but not nationals or citizens, unlike pied-noirs and Algerian Jews.
"Camus was indeed notable during his time in Algeria." His article seems to describe his adult life in Algeria as a goalkeeper for a local football club and university student in Algiers, which is not notable in of itself. You gave the examples of two FLN members, Ben Bella would be considered Algerian since that is the nationality he held when he was most notable and both would be considered "indigenous Muslims" and wouldn't have had French citizenship unless naturalized.
"The concept of nationality and citizenship during that time was relative, unlike the clear policies we have in the modern world regarding citizenship." No, there were decrees and laws under French colonial rule specifically which subjects in French Algeria obtained citizenship of Metropolitan France and did not. This is not a necromancy session to see if Camus would have been more loyal to France or an independent Algeria, the fact his family immediately left after Algeria in favor of France after Algeria gained its independence is enough.
"his most famous book, 'The Stranger,' depicts Algiers." If I write a novel about Kampala, does this make me Ugandan?
"comparing Morocco to Algeria is not valid as the contexts are vastly different" How so? Both had Europeans settle it, albeit to a different scale.
"We can continue to discuss and argue if you'd like" I'd be honored. NAADAAN (talk) 21:01, 30 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Editor-in-chief of Paris-Soir?[edit]

The article currently states

...in 1940 and Camus flew to Paris to take a new job at Paris-Soir as editor-in-chief.

In Sean Carroll's 2013 book (p.11) it says

in the spring of 1940, [...] Camus was an aspiring but unknown twenty-six-year-old writer, working as a layout designer for the newspaper Paris-Soir

and on p.54

Camus soon obtained a position as a layout designer with Paris-Soir, [...] Camus had no reporting or writing responsibilities.

And after the German occupation

To Camus’s disgust, Paris-Soir joined the chorus of worship that heralded Pétain as France’s savior.

(p.115). The book never describes Camus as editor-in-chief of Paris-Soir. Do we have other sources that make this claim? AxelBoldt (talk) 23:56, 18 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you for the question. Give me some time, and I will have a look at my sources. Cinadon36 06:08, 20 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There are two citations of the particular sentence. Patrick Hayden and Sherman.
Hayden, p13.

...Camus was forced to leave Algeria for Paris where Pia had found a position for him as assistant editor with the newspaper ParisSoir.... Camus arrived in Paris on 16 March 1940. His duties for Paris-Soir were editorial rather than journalistic – as secrétaire de redaction he was responsible for the paper’s layout – which enabled Camus to ....

Sherman, p13.

...Pia was able to secure editorial positions for both himself and Camus at the relatively apolitical Paris-Soir, and Camus left for Paris...

I believe that these are sufficient. Certainly not editor in chief- I have to look a bit further that. Cinadon36 12:23, 20 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK, I'll change "editor in chief" to "layout editor" for now. AxelBoldt (talk) 21:19, 21 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks! @AxelBoldt Cinadon36 21:26, 21 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Philosophy of Albert Camus article[edit]

Good afternoon,

I'm a French wikipedia contributor and I work on the article named Philosophie d'Albert Camus. I thought it would be interesting to translate this page into English and improve it, but I don't have the rights required to create a page on the English Wikipedia. May you help me ?

Here is my draft : User:Youre breathtaking/Philosophy of Albert Camus.

Regards Youre breathtaking (talk) 14:41, 25 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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