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In this too POV??
"Unlikely as it sounds, a situation such as occurred in the Falklands War could happen again. How would the government respond? Basing the question on the here and now, the conclusion seems to be that it is doubtful that the Royal Navy will be able to cope, even with the (hopefully) capable systems in which the British Government has invested so much faith. Technology is a good thing, but it doesn't help when men in small boats can cause so much destruction."
I am curious why this content is here rather than in the main article on the Royal Navy? This is great detail about the current state but I would not normally expect to find it here. I personally would expect to find it in the main article. Rossami 23:16, 18 May 2004 (UTC)
Proposal:
Also, there is a large section under the 'Ananlysis' heading which is opinion or maybe even speculation. It needs to be more encylopedic - facts, not thinking on paper. akaDruid 13:49, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Some of the stuff on PFI doesn't really fit with an encyclopedia.--Payo 10:06, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
While there are parts of this article that might benefit from clean-up, much of the article is encyclopaedic. I'm therefore replacing the -unencyclopedic- with -cleanup-. Ian Cairns 10:03, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
But... since the end of the Cold War, successive Chancellors have imposed the 'peace dividend'. With no recognisable threat, the defence budget has been constantly raided to provide additional funds in other areas. This has led to continuing cuts to the strength of the fleet, particularly with regard to escorts - in 1990, the destroyer and frigate force numbered 43; by 2000, it had dropped to 32. In addition to this is the continued reduction in the nuclear submarine force, which will drop to 10 boats. At present, with the current global situation, these numbers are only just sufficient. Should something like the 2003 Iraq War happen again, the fleet would be stretched. And yet, it seems likely that the numbers of new units will only replace what is already in service, thanks to the government's decision to base its strategy on systems that are adaptable to many situations; it has decided that it does not need large armed forces, despite the continuing evidence of the War on Terror and the fallout of Iraq.
Added to this is the continuing use of the Private Finance Initiative, that uses private money to pay for public works. At present, three warships in the service of the Royal Navy are owned, not by the Admiralty, but by the shipbuilder that constructed them. They are chartered by the Admiralty for five years, after which the navy can purchase them, extend the charter or return them. As it seems unlikely that such major assets would be returned, it means that the taxpayer is not only paying for the five year charter, but also for the eventual cost of purchasing the ships; in effect, they are paying for them twice. While this may be an acceptable arrangement for assets such as the new strategic lift ro-ro ships (which can be used as ordinary merchant transports when not needed by the military), the same cannot be said for actual warships.
At present, the government's procurement policy involves 2 CVF and their air groups, 8 Type 45 destroyers, 5 Astute class submarines and perhaps as many as 17 FSCs. Assuming 8 Type 45s are built, this will provide a major fleet of 25 escorts, 2 carriers and 10 SSNs, with a sizeable amphibious force and significant (though not numerous) other assets. Will this be enough? Even now, the fleet is stretched and the government continues to talk of further decommissionings, not to mention the number of projects that are behind schedule - Albion and Bulwark will both enter service late; the first Type 45 has only just started construction and will be late, as will the Astute class, while there are still wranglings over the size of CVF; it has also recently been discovered that the F-35 is severely overweight, which will probably lead to a slip in its in-service date. This, coupled with the early withdrawal of the Sea Harrier, will leave no capable fleet air defence aircraft in the Fleet Air Arm for five years or more. The rationale for this is that the UK 'no longer fights the sort of wars where ships need defending from enemy warplanes far out to sea; if necessary, we can rely on coalition forces to provide the outer air defences for surface ships' (Armed Forces Minister, Adam Ingram, 28/02/02). But, who can say what the global situation will be once HMS Queen Elizabeth enters service? Who knows what will happen in the next five years? Unlikely as it sounds, a situation such as occurred in the Falklands War could happen again. How would the government respond? Basing the question on the here and now, the conclusion seems to be that it is doubtful that the Royal Navy will be able to cope, even with the (hopefully) capable systems in which the British Government has invested so much faith. Technology is a good thing, but it doesn't help when men in small boats can cause so much destruction.
When I wrote this, just after Delivering Security in a Changing World was announced, I felt very strongly that it needed to be said publically, and I still do. However, I am aware that an encyclopedia isn't the proper forum to do so, which is why I've moved the above text into the discussion page. Hammersfan 05/10/05, 15.30
I completely agree with the above comments. The early withdrawl of the Sea Harrier has been exposed for the cost cutting sham it was during the recent crisis in North Korea in October, 2006.
In particular, I take issue with this part of the article:
"Therefore, over the course of 1990s and the 2000s, the navy has begun a series of projects to enhance and rebuild its fleet, with a view to bringing its capabilities into the 21st century and allow it to turn from a North Atlantic, anti-submarine force into a true blue water navy."
How can the Navy or the authour of this article use the words "enhance" and "rebuild" while keeping a straight face is beyond me. How exactly is cutting the surface fleet to the bone compatible with the words "enhance" and (especially) "rebuild"?
That particular part of the article needs rewriting ASAP as it simply does not bear out reality. Simply regurgitating government spin is not a good way of writing an unbiased and well written article!
If this does not happen soon, I will do it myself! And will continue to change it if it is reset back to its previous (incorrect) form! --Pudduh 21:53, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
The comments above are all just agenda driven rubbish and the article is now both wrong and biased to the negative. For example " the comment about the type 42s being replaced by half the number of type 45s" last I checked there were 8 type 42s and there are 8 type 45s planned (6 ordered). You accuse the original author of speculation and comment but then are guilty of it yourselves by speculating that the last two type 45s will not be ordered when there is no real evidence that they will (tabloid newspapers are not reliable sources of information as they are themselves politically biased) Lets wait until they are cancelled before we bleat on about it otherwise we just look stupid. To be blunt the article has been turned from a interesting if maybe over positive article into what is effectively a load of labour bashing waffle!!! -- Kieran Locke —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.165.225.23 (talk) 15:58, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
In addition, this comment "many of these have been cut or cancelled" any examples of these many cancelled and cut programs? Or is the editor again over exaggerating in order to further his or hers agenda.
In fairness, I think the reference to 8 Type 42s in service is after some earlier reductions in numbers from 12 ships. So 6 Type 45s would indeed only replace (numerically) half of the T42 strength as at the time of the SDR. There has been a steady reduction in the size of the RN since SDR, and this trend is continuing. This seems to me a matter of fact. On the other hand, describing this as a bad (or for that matter a good) thing strays into POV, I think. --Vvmodel (talk) 19:55, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
yes but this was a trend long before SDR to. People have short memories and don’t seem to remember the large defence cuts of the 1990s and before that. This article indicates that everything was all fine and dandy until the current administration came in. anybody who’s studied modern British military history knows that that is not true. I am not suggesting for a second that everything’s great at the moment there are problems and issues to be addressed but there has always been problems and issues and there always will be. The two editors who have changed this page seem biased and naive. Perhaps this article should be about the navy’s plans rather than what it is at the moment. I am sorry I really don’t like this article I don’t think its encyclopaedic but I will now shut up- Regards kieran Locke —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.165.225.23 (talk) 15:15, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
As there has been no response to either my or Hammersfan's arguments, I have decided to go nuclear and change the article to better reflect the reality faced by an ever crippled and impotent Royal Navy. The current reaction to the North Korean crisis and the fact that we can barely offer one frigate due to fleet and budget cutbacks only add to the avalanche of evidence that whoever wrote this wikipedia article does not have any perception of reality.
I shall endeavour to maintain this legitimate edit if it is returned to it's original and incorrect form. --Pudduh 16:26, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Im afraid as I said earlier all you have done is change the article to suit your own particular opinion which is no more close to reality as you put it as the original article. You say the navy is impotent and incapable because it couldn’t send a single frigate to a fictitious blockade of north Korea (again coming from the tabloids), but conveniently fail to mention the evacuation of British nationals from Lebanon by the royal navy just last summer and the 12 ship task force sent on the vela deployment to sierra Leone this year. --- Kieran Locke —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.165.225.23 (talk) 18:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
The naming conventions would seem to indicate that this article should be at Royal Navy in the 21st Century. Unless there are any objections, I'd propose to move it there. Alai 20:46, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
In discussing the changes there seems to be no mention of the privatisation of what tends here to be called "the Armiralty". I've added mention to the Royal Maritime Auxiliary Service page which seemed well out of date.
Also, since this page can be a useful expansion on the topic, why isn't it linked on the Royal Navy section about this with a see main? ..dave souza, talk 08:18, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I have just finished a major cleanup of this article.
Fair dinkum on the POV, looks much better now. --Pudduh 13:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
im sorry but isnt that just tabloid speculation. considering one paper said its canceled and another has said its beinging sold to india. you should be talking about future royal naval force structure based on current government and royal naval policy. if we included every piece of media speculation we would end up with a conflicting load of garbage. lets be fair their track record on getting things right and accurate leaves something to be desired. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.35.132.151 (talk) 10:17, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Image:2006 CVF STOVL.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot 21:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
You should update again, there are only 6 Type 45 destroyers planned with 7-8 being scrapped for money on FCS development. Watch after the elections as it might drop even further. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.111.43.195 (talk) 05:56, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
"Eight boats were the official target until 2008, now the MOD officially plans to acquire 7 Astute class submarines: it remains to be seen if this target will be maintained and reached despite the continuously shrinking budget."
"despite the continuously shrinking budget."
Clearly very wrong when the defence budget is larger and larger every year. Defence spending rises every year, it doesnt shrink. The problem is defence equiptment becomes more expensive and the defence budget doesnt rise enough to counter defence costs. The article should read "despite a lack of defence spending." or "despite budget constraints." Recon.Army (talk) 15:34, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
The illustration for the new Elizabeth class carriers does not match the illustration that can be seen at HMS Queen Elizabeth, which shows a carrier with a skew-aligned runway as opposed to the axially-aligned runway shown on this article. Which of these two is the actual layout of the carrier? siafu (talk) 17:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
i would like to point out, you have not added the repercussions to the Royal Navy if Scotland succeeds in voting for independence in 2014. As Scottish tax payers have contributed at least 9% (it's actually 10% in reality) towards military funding then a independent Scotland would be entitled to at least 9% of the military/naval hardware of the British armed forces excluding nuclear assests as Scotland is not interested in nuclear weapons or energy, which will result in the removal of the deep naval facility in faslane which will have massive implications for the "British/English" submarine fleet and the UK/English goverment in the removal of the facility from Scotland, a facility the people of Scotland never wanted on their territory, the remainder of the UK will have to pay the costs of removing the nuclear facilities from Scottish soil, the cost for ignoring the people of Scotland — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.12.244.9 (talk) 15:43, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
According to an article dated 10 May 2012 the Defence Secretary Philip Hammond announced that the Royal Navy will order the STOVL 'B' variant in preference to the carrier capable 'C' variant. His reasoning is that to convert the Queen Elizabeth class carrier to 'Cat and Trap' configuration would delay service implementation and double the cost of the carriers. He stated that the carriers will now be completed in the STOVL configuration with a ski-jump which will permit continuous carrier availability throughout the life of the ship
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Latest-News/2012/May/10/120509-F35B — Preceding unsigned comment added by Djandersonza (talk • contribs) 16:58, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Latest-News/2012/May/10/120509-F35B — Preceding unsigned comment added by Djandersonza (talk • contribs) 16:54, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
On crowsnet.Phd8511 (talk) 21:50, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
"A possible replacement for Sea King ASaC7 in the Airborne Early Warning role are the spare FAA Merlins that will not be upgraded to HM2 standard. The spare Merlins could be upgraded to carry the same equipment and Cerberus radar suite as the Sea King ASaC7. However, the limitations of using a helicopter in this role are well documented - endurance is limited, service ceiling is low and vibrations from the rotors may cause distortion. Therefore, two other concepts have also been put forward: a MASC version of the V-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft and the acquisition of the American E-2 Hawkeye embarked AEW aircraft. The V-22 was seen an attractive option for the original STOVL configuration of CVF, combined the VTOL aspects of a helicopter with the endurance of a fixed wing aircraft. The E-2 is already in service with the French and US Navies. It has advantages over the V-22 again in terms of endurance and ceiling; because its cabin is pressurised, it can operate at greater altitude than the Merlin, extending the range of its radar. However, the E-2 is not compatible with the ski-jump system envisaged for the CVF and would require a reversal back to the CATOBAR system which the US continues to lobby for. The decision on what aircraft will be chosen will be left until the 2015 Strategic defence review"
Without any source? The future AEW Project is Crowsnet.Phd8511 (talk) 19:08, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
24 Commando Engineer Regiment will be removed from the ORBAT not before April 2013.[1]131 Independent Commando Field Squadron Royal Engineers will instead be under 32 Engineer Regiment, Royal Engineers (Army) and be re-named as 131 Commando Field Squadron Royal Engineers.[2]The Royal Marines 3 Commando Brigade will no longer have 1st Battalion, The Rifles under its operational control. This battalion will move to 160th Brigade under the Army 2020 plan.[3]Phd8511 (talk) 21:41, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
References
unless you are not reading
http://www.baesystems.com/en-uk/article/hms-ambush-officially-welcomed-into-the-royal-navy
http://www.baesystems.com/en/product/astute-class-submarines-enhanced
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/search/?q=%22astute%22+%22boat+7%22 Phd8511 (talk) 15:22, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
Please see Talk:HMS Ajax (S125). Thank you - theWOLFchild 19:43, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/third-astute-submarine-formally-handed-over-to-the-royal-navy
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2016/march/18/160318-hms-artful
THERE IS NO NAMING DISPUTE.Phd8511 (talk) 10:33, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
of listing active Royal Navy Ships?Phd8511 (talk) 07:15, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
learn what are facts and information! Consensus be gone.Phd8511 (talk) 07:48, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
Nice to have large sections of ships to be built and commissioned but what about ships to be decommissioned?
Cantab1985 (talk) 07:49, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
Should it be in the table?
JessPavarocks (talk) 08:58, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Future of the Royal Navy. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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and this section is rumours. Removed until definite.
Although nothing has been officially stated, the Royal Navy may have declared interest in the potential procurement of the V-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft, for operation in a number of different roles. At the 2016 Farnborough Airshow, Bell Helicopter stated that although there was no specific requirement from the 2015 SDSR, the company was "keeping the Royal Navy informed".[1] The V-22 has been procured as a COD aircraft for the US Navy, with one of its major requirements for the role being the capability of transporting a whole F-35 engine, something that the US Marine Corps also does with its V-22s, and this has been suggested as being attractive for the UK, in addition to other potential requirements (aerial refueling, special forces operations, heavy lift capability).[2][1][3]
JessPavarocks (talk) 14:05, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
References
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/royal-marines-to-be-restructured-in-line-with-growing-royal-navy
Will update
JessPavarocks (talk) 01:44, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
As a non naval person, interested in public procurement, what I look for in vain here is an assessment of what the navy is for = the prediction of future strategic threat or threats which we need to design our navy to meet. Maybe there is no such thing - in which case we need a section saying so. For without it, this article is merely a list of bits and bobs which might be enough, might be too much, might be the wrong thing altogether - how would we know? Unraed (talk) 10:56, 7 July 2017 (UTC)unraed
Apologies if this has been discussed before, but I just wanted to check on the use of hyphens when referring to the name of a class of ships. For example, is it Astute-class or Astute class? Xtrememachineuk (talk) 05:42, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
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At the 2016 Farnborough Airshow, Bell Helicopter stated that although there was no specific requirement from the 2015 SDSR, the company was "keeping the Royal Navy informed".[1] The V-22 has been procured as a COD aircraft for the US Navy, with one of its major requirements for the role being the capability of transporting a whole F-35 engine, something that the US Marine Corps also may be doing, and this has been suggested as being attractive for the UK.[2][1][3]
BlueD954 (talk) 07:47, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
References
I have just come across this article, and I notice there are equivalent articles for other nations' navies with similar titles.
I wonder, could we improve the title of this article? Currently, it does not reflect the uncertainty involved in writing about the future. This article can only be about the 'planned future' rather than the currently unknown 'actual future'. JohnmgKing (talk) 11:07, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. JohnmgKing (talk) 11:55, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
Future of the Royal Navy → Planned future of the Royal Navy – The current title, whilst in line with similar pages on Wikipedia, is not really accurate. It isn't overly precise to clarify that we are talking about the planned future, and we do not have special insight into the actual future. JohnmgKing (talk) 12:18, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
I've added the new AUKUS submarines to be built in Barrow-in-furness. However, I've had to use some unorthodox editing techniques to make the edit look presentable (e.g. have to manually space out data in the editing area in order to produce space). If any of you could fix my edit and make it look better, that would be appreciated. Cheers Luke848 (talk) 05:22, 16 July 2024 (UTC)