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This is not a merger request! There will still be two separate articles, so "separation of articles" is not a valid argument here (and should not be counted toward consensus). I see now that maybe Leadup/Prelude to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine is a much better name than "conflict" but I think it is too late to change that. We would have to hold a whole new discussion. This is not a response to any particular editor, but rather of the recent trends here. Kehkou (talk) 06:06, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait – It is much too early to decide what this article will be called. We need to see two things 1) what actually happens in the coming days and 2) what reliable sources call those events, if and when they occur. At this point, there is no way to know what the common name will be (and there certainly isn't a common name for what's happened up until now), and furthermore, without a WP:CRYSTAL ball, we simply cannot determine how things will proceed. There is WP:NODEADLINE on Wikipedia, and we are WP:NOTNEWS. Wait, wait wait. RGloucester — ☎02:55, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait per RGloucester. Wikipedia is not news and we do not report updates on current events live. If the situation changes by tomorrow, then I'll support renaming or even potentially creating a new article. >>> Ingenuity.talk();03:03, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to "2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine"Breaking: massive explosions just now in Kramatorsk. At least four. Very big.[1] And from two WaPo reporters: Russian President Vladimir Putin announced that Russia is undertaking a "special military operation" in Ukraine saying his goal is to demilitarize and denazify the country but not occupy it.[2]I’m hearing booms in Kharkiv.[3]XOR'easter (talk) 03:12, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
ALT1: support move to Leadup to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine - The complementary/sub- article 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine already exists based on rough consensus by active editors for a split; some non-so-active contributors to the article want to wait a week for formal consensus on a split and one editor has hit the WP:3RR limit there. Better un-redirect that article if there is sufficient support rather than start a new article. Renaming this article to Leadup to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine and doing some transfers of material would make sense in terms of WP:RS, theme and WP:SIZESPLIT. (The Kalanchak border post appears to have been overrun and the webcam went offline; not a WP:RS, though. Another non-WP:RS, Bryce Wilson, based in Kramatorsk, claims that "Kramatorsk has been attacked".) Boud (talk) 03:13, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Casting WP:ASPERSIONS, and for what. That's fine. I spent years contributing to these articles, from the moment this nonsense started in 2014. I am trying to get people stop and think before they proceed, and to follow Wikipedia guidelines. But if you want to forge ahead and create a mess, that's your prerogative. Enjoy. RGloucester — ☎03:16, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait per WP:CRYSTAL. Let's see if an enduring common name comes up in a few days or so. I don't think we need to start move request after move request in this article. It's fine the way it is, for now. Iamreallygoodatcheckers (talk) 03:23, 24 February 2022 (UTC)Oppose since there is now an actual article for the intervention itself. Iamreallygoodatcheckers (talk) 05:03, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support, reliable sources are now confirming that it is indeed a conflict (my initial concern was going off of Twitter rumors during the fog of... conflict, if you will). See e.g. WaPo front page as of UTC 04:00 "Russia begins attacks on Ukraine". WhinyTheYounger (WtY)(talk, contribs) 04:02, 24 February 2022 (UTC) Wait until RS's give us an idea of what wording to use, which should not take long. I appreciate that there is a sense of urgency here, but we cannot just make determinations based on hearsay and tweets from journalists. WhinyTheYounger (WtY)(talk, contribs) 03:31, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support This cannot be anything else but a conflict, likely a major one. Any move would be quickly justified within the next few hours regardless due to the seeming scale of the attack already. ArbDardh (talk) 03:35, 24 February 2022 (UTC)ArbDardh[reply]
Wait A conflict implies that there is fighting from both sides. Ukraine has not, to my knowledge, returned any artillery fire or made assaults on Russian garrisons in Donetsk or Luhansk. Mebigrouxboy (talk) 03:38, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment As this article is about the buildup primarily, and the invasion began only in 2022. Should this article stay as the lead up and a seperate article be devoted to the actual war/invasion? Strong Oppose Clearly invasion article is devoted to the conflict and this is just the prelude events prior to 2/24. Yeoutie (talk) 03:51, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@RGloucester Personally I find it pretty conflicting. It will be likely merged upon a newer consensus like the example you stated earlier (Donbas). Hope everything goes smoothly with the articles. Cheers, PenangLion (talk) 04:04, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Putin declare war... OspreyPL 03:54, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
Support: The U.N. Security Council's emergency security meeting is convening; France's representative called Russian's actions "war". Conflict is certainly warranted. Will likely be need to be adjusted as more information develops. Svenskbygderna (talk) 04:01, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose this article should continue to be described as a crisis and should not include events past the 24th of February. instead it should remain as a description of the events leading up to the subsequent invasion, like the July crisis was for WW1 IAmSeamonkey (talk) 04:09, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Changed to Wait, as it appears that there are possibly signs of a conflict being reflected in RS, on both the russian, and the ukrainian sides, ie TASS, informburo ukrainy. 142.157.192.122 (talk) 05:05, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Landing troops on foreign soil and the imposition of active fighting and conflict, makes it an active conflict. Attacking several cities in geographically varied parts of a country makes it an invasion. Cyali (talk) 04:24, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral - Not sure what to call it. But definitely, Russia has invaded Ukraine & won't be retreating, unless forced to by military means. GoodDay (talk) 04:29, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Not that it isn't a conflict and what's going on is wrong to be called that; just that what's been going on for over 8 years has been the ongoing "conflict" and, frankly, calling it this one-year thing doesn't go far enough in renaming what is, without getting into definitions or being too OTT, the start of a full-blown invasion and war. The "crisis" was the build-up and recognition of DNR/LNR, what's happening now is a major escalation into something much, much worse. If we're going on how other similar events have been documented, it seems more like a multi-page thing, e.g. 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. — Bacon Noodles (talk • contribs • uploads) 06:14, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose probably the subject matter covered by this article should be retitled something like Prelude to 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, but let's hold off shuffling stuff about. VQuakr (talk) 08:41, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose original suggested move as others have said their is already an article about the build up to that conflict. However, I wouldn't object to the alternative new title suggested as it may be more clear but could be a bit premature right now.--Llewee (talk) 11:33, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose since invasion now has a page of its own. Also oppose merge until we see whether this war will be fast or not. If it is, then we could probably synthetize all information into a single page. But we can't know yet. SuperΨDro14:18, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Even with the additional article (2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine) about the current invasion I still support a name change. The fact that we have seperate subpage I think just strengthens the need for a name change. Rovastar (talk) 19:01, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose – I think this would cause additional confusion for readers. The creation of the invasion article has made this RM obsolete. The current title helps to distinguish this article's scope (the recent escalation and "crisis") from the wider "conflict" (covered at Russo-Ukrainian War) and the actual invasion (covered at 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine). I'm open to Neutrality's suggestion above ("Prelude to 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine"), although I prefer the current title. Jr8825 • Talk21:07, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support name change, as the crisis has now turned into an all-out conflict. The word "conflict" can also be a synonym for "war," whereas the word "crisis" is more ambiguous.Davidbena (talk) 23:02, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - A crisis is a build-up to a potential conflict, usually consisting of diplomatic actions. As Russia has undertaken military action, this is no longer a crisis but a conflict. InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:36, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I think the better way to organize the articles would be to have an article on the crisis that preceded the invasion (which this one should be) and an article for the invasion itself (available here) and a third article for the broader Russo-Ukrainian conflict (available here). Structuring the article so that the invasion is a subarticle of this one seems like the wrong way to go about things. — Mhawk10 (talk) 02:02, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Changing vote to oppose - Separation of articles makes this move illogical, also per Brandmeister. Currently the consensus is inconclusive. PenangLion (talk) 15:03, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Mzajac — most events in the 2021–22 window prior to the actual February invasion are best regarded as part of the 2014–present crisis, and I believe it makes the most sense to have an overview article for those and a separate article for the invasion covering both the invasion itself and the subsequent conflict. Krinn DNZ (talk) 21:49, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Crisis is the standard term used to describe the diplomatic escalation in the leadup to a war. The events leading up to the invasion didn't involve direct conflict, so that would be misleading.Mozzie (talk) 03:34, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a merger request! There will still be two separate articles, so "separation of articles" is not a valid argument here (and should not be counted toward consensus). I see now that maybe Leadup/Prelude to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine is a much better name than "conflict" but I think it is too late to change that. We would have to hold a whole new discussion. This is not a response to any particular editor, but rather of the recent trends here. Kehkou (talk) 06:06, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Close as stale / no consensus - the situation has changed so much since this discussion opened that most of the comments older than ~3 days are out of date. A new discussion can be opened if a new title is still deemed necessary. Ibadibam (talk) 19:40, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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From:
Continued violence and escalation
To:
Continued escalation
From:
The next day, the mission confirmed the death of a child in Russian-occupied Donbas, but failed to establish a link between the purported "Ukrainian drone strike" and the child's death.[107]
To:
The next day, the mission confirmed the death of a child in Russian-occupied Donbas, but failed to establish a link between the purported "Ukrainian drone strike" and the child's death.[107]. Russian media had previously fabricated a story of child getting killed by Ukranian shelling in 2015[1] VainiusI (talk) 21:58, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Matrek Then it won't fit the description of the events. A war is an intense armed conflict: this crisis is not. There are no formal territorial incursions by the Russian forces. PenangLion (talk) 17:18, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me? There is no what? No Russian military incursion on Ukrainian territory? Or just "no formal"? What does that mean? Russian tanks and infantry around Kyiv and shelling civilian areas in the city are what, sightseeing trip? Matrek (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 17:43, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I guess you have not realized that there are at least 28 articles covering the entire topic. Look at the infobox, look at the dates. PenangLion (talk) 12:40, 4 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]