< December 2 December 4 >
Guide to deletion

Purge server cache

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete as the consensus among discussants. Perhaps, as the single dissenting opinion suggests, at some future date the actor might be sufficiently notable for inclusion here. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:38, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Julien Baptist[edit]

Julien Baptist (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

See Talk:Julien Baptist. Looks like a vanity page to me(but I could be wrong). Very doubtful notability as a film actor. No sources given for claims to being a contestant on "Nouvelle Star", no third party sources for claims about acting. "notability" tag was removed twice without comments by anon, but no sources were added. The very model of a minor general 23:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect/merge to Cannabis smoking#Knife Hits. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 04:20, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Spots[edit]

Spots (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This is something I might expect to find in the far back pages of High Times magazine, but never an encyclopedia. Beyond being presented as a "how-to guide", it also fails to document any kind of a reliable source for the information. Coccyx Bloccyx 23:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:20, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Heather Kuzmich[edit]

Heather Kuzmich (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This person appears to have no notability outside of the show America's Next Top Model, Cycle 9 and a brief appearance on a morning talk show. In general we don't maintain articles on individual reality TV contestants, and I think the subject does not satisfy Wikipedia:Notability (people) at present. —dgiestc 23:35, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with your support for keeping the article, but I don't think I like the "if you have a whole NYT article" standard. It's certainly possible for the NYT to have a fluff piece on someone who is not significant enough for an enyclopedia, or an article on a person in connection with some news item that lacks permanent significance. Croctotheface (talk) 00:03, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Good point. I'll downgrade my support to "keep". --ChrisRuvolo (t) 19:49, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Um, yes it does. Skomorokh incite 12:37, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Then go write up articles on all of them and cite that. I dare you. See how many of them are kept. REALLY. Mike H. Celebrating three years of being hotter than Paris 08:08, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Mike H., meet Hume's law, Skomorokh incite 01:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Speedy delete as hoax, non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer(Broken clamshellsOtter chirps) 00:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Marshall Hansberry[edit]

Marshall Hansberry (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article is clearly a hoax and should be promptly deleted. The text is taken from the article on Aldous Huxley. Many of the words have been simply changed to create a fake article. Leeannedy 23:12, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep --JForget 00:54, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Easyworld[edit]

Easyworld (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Article about an indie band that - and I know you'll have trouble believing this - has no sources other than the band's own website. Guy (Help!) 23:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Change to Keep per conviencening evidence. Shoessss |  Chat  01:39, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Kind of curious how you found totally different serach results then everyone else. 02:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ridernyc (talkcontribs)
Guess you kind of missed my vote change? Note time and date. Shoessss |  Chat  03:07, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:54, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Marshall Maher[edit]

Marshall Maher (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Marshall Maher does not meeting the notability guidelines for inclusion in Wikipedia. He was once an editor for the student newspaper of the University of Texas at Austin. Several references can be found to his work online but they are almost exclusively authored by him. References to a Jenna Bush scandal in the article are not significant enough for notability. At best, a reference to Marshall Maher could be made in a section on media coverage of the Jenna Bush alcohol problems within the appropriate article. Leeannedy 22:54, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Deleted by User:Mailer diablo. Non-admin closure. NF24(radio me!) 13:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ken Hunter Football[edit]

Ken Hunter Football (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable subject per the sports section of WP:BIO. • Freechild'sup? 22:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete --JForget 00:57, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Teaser and link[edit]

Teaser and link (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable whatever it is. An idiosyncratic phrase of a particular industry, perhaps, but no assertion as to its use. Could be partly included in wiktionary in the definition of teaser or abstract or something else. AvruchTalk 22:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete (deleted by Golbez.) --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 18:03, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

En328tv[edit]

En328tv (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Is this item notable enough to be worth a major re-write on the article ? thisisace 22:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Nomination withdrawn, information on article merged to Barbara Reskin. Non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer(Broken clamshellsOtter chirps) 23:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reskin Theory[edit]

Reskin Theory (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Speedy tagged as advert. I declined because I cannot assess subject's notability. It may just need a rewrite. Subject's works are the main source for the article Don't know which way to go with this, so AfD. Looks like ad or OR. Dlohcierekim 22:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep --JForget 00:40, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

United Federation of Planets (Star Fleet Universe)[edit]

United Federation of Planets (Star Fleet Universe) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The article is not notable, and is simply a repetition in an in-universe way of plot elements from the various Star Fleet game articles. It is thus totally duplicative and has no encyclopedic content to speak of. ALSO, THERE IS ALREADY AN ARTICLE ON THE United Federation of Planets, this is simply a repetition with slight variations of the version from the Star Fleet Universe of games. Judgesurreal777 21:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But sadly, their lack of improvement is a further nail in the coffin concerning their notability. Judgesurreal777 22:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is quick, I give you that, but disruptive? When the article in question has no notability, and asserted none? I'm sorry if Wikipedia notability and verifiability policies are burdensome, but the article still needs to improve and hasn't. Judgesurreal777 01:47, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am using exageration to make a point; in less than a month, people try to delete them because they have no hope of improvement, and there has been no improvement. It still illustrates my point. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:37, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:NOEFFORT. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 21:45, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No one is working on it not because they are disinterested or people are busy, but most likely because there is nothing to add. The critical pieces of notability that this article would need dont exist. Hey, it happens, they had to de-feature Wario because all they know about how he was developed is his name in Japanese! And unless we have things like, say, World of Final Fantasy VIII, then there's no reason to keep the article. Take a look at this article, and see how good it is, and the type of information it has. That is what is needsd, and what is currently lacking. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:51, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that over 90%, probably 95% of my nominations have been deleted, so it seems that my record disagrees with you. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 04:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Cleanup is needed for articles that have hope of sourcing at some point, and there has been no demonstration either at the article or in these AFD's that such sourcing exists. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:26, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict with RFerreira) You haven't even given it a chance for improvement, as the last nom was only one month ago. Generally, you let it sit for some time (preferably more than one month) and see what happens, then nominate it for deletion. --FastLizard4 (TalkIndexSign) 23:23, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would withdraw if you could produce some evidence, or at least strongly assure me that references will be found at some point. As of now, it doesn't seem likelyJudgesurreal777 (talk) 23:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You still haven't answered my question: why didn't you give the article the time considered to be "polite" (for lack of a better word) and instead nominating it after one month? In addition, references abound at those games' websites. --FastLizard4 (TalkIndexSign) 23:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't notice it had had a previous deletion till I nominated it, and then I didn't know it was nominated only a month ago. That doesn't mean the article doesn't suck and shouldn't improve. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If there is no notability, there is no article once you eliminate the unverifiable content, which would then be everything. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete, implemented as redirect to Bajoran to allow for a history merge if there is consensus for it. Sandstein (talk) 07:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cardassian Occupation[edit]

Cardassian Occupation (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The article is not notable, and is simply a repetition in an in-universe way of plot elements from the various Star Trek Deep Space Nine episode articles. It is thus totally duplicative and has no encyclopedic content to speak of. Judgesurreal777 21:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Secret account 02:11, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

World War III (Star Trek)[edit]

World War III (Star Trek) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The article is not notable, and is simply a repetition in an in-universe way of plot elements from the various Star Trek episode articles. It is thus totally duplicative and has no encyclopedic content to speak of. Judgesurreal777 21:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's true, and the fact is, I haven't found anything! It seems, as I suspected it was, lacking in notability. Perhaps there are Star Trek fans among us that can direct us to interviews where it is mentioned, or articles discussing it, but I have seen none of that, and that's what needs to be found. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You can address it enough for both of us. Regardless, Star Trek didn't invent the concept of "World War III". Mandsford (talk) 22:02, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Spartaz Humbug! 19:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Cardassia[edit]

Battle of Cardassia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The article is not notable, and is simply a repetition in an in-universe way of plot elements from the various Star Trek:Deep Space Nine episode articles. It is thus totally duplicative and has no encyclopedic content to speak of. Judgesurreal777 21:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:22, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eugenics Wars[edit]

Eugenics Wars (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The article is not notable, and is simply a repetition in an in-universe way of plot elements from the various Star Trek episode articles. It is thus totally duplicative and has no encyclopedic content to speak of. Judgesurreal777 21:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Right I'm the on grasping at straws.Ridernyc 07:30, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If you look at the book's index here, you'll see that it is mentioned on at least two pages. Not that great, I admit, but it's a start. Zagalejo^^^ 07:56, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please by all means, demonstrate its notability through referencing that has been asked for countless times in this discussion if you would care to read it. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:49, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It appears there are maybe two references that are notable, and neither are actually put as inline citations, so we have no idea if they actually talk about the Eugenics war, the rest of the inline citations are references to fan sites reiterating the plot of the episodes that deal with the Eugenics war, which is not what we are looking for. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:39, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Could you be more specific, please? Which two, Okuda and Okuda (The ST Chronology) and... Cox (The Eugenics Wars: The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Singh)? Bernardi (Star Trek and History: Race-Ing Toward a White Future)? If you mean both of the Cox books, surely you aren't insisting that print references do not suffice in this case? If you mean the Cox books as one reference, what about the Star Trek Encyclopedia, as others have mentioned? And either way, what is wrong with the episode summaries at Startrek.com as primary source and the Memory Alpha articles as secondary ones? Banazir (talk) 16:53, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I definitely am not saying anything about preferring print materials, I'm just wondering if the potentially notable references are currently used in the article, or what their contents are. The in-universe references are used in-line, while the potentially notable ones are not listed in such a way. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 18:13, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is a discussion about notability, please participate in it and make your keep arguments related to both this dicussion and Wikipedia policy, repeating endlessly how "major" it is does not prove it. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:02, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Consensus is to Keep based on the view that reliable sources can be found and used to improve the article. Davewild (talk) 10:41, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dominion War[edit]

Dominion War (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The article is not notable in an encyclopedic sense, and is simply a repetition in an in-universe way of plot elements from the various Star Trek:Deep Space Nine television show articles. It is thus totally duplicative and has no encyclopedic content to speak of. Judgesurreal777 21:42, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think I was pretty clear in saying that it is unencyclopedic because it doesn't meet our guidelines, such as verification and notability. And if it is such a strong "theme", then by all means, show that it has some notability. Judgesurreal777 16:39, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It can be difficult, but it is required that that type of notability be established; we need information like the writers discussing how they developed the plot, what arguments they had, fan reaction from prominent publications, etc. That is what is required to avoid deletion. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:43, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
comment I thought that notability only need be ASSERTED to qualify under wp:notability (ala: speedy). The issue would be verification under wp:rs, and there are thousands of sources but not all meet wp:rs. It is like picking out a particular needle, in a stack of needles. I'm trying to be sincere about this, and please don't take this wrong, but it sounds like the arguements against are mainly arguments for improving but don't qualify as arguments for delete. Pharmboy (talk) 21:52, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I understand its frustrating, but in order to have an article on wikipedia you must demonstrate some or in fact ANY notability. If you could do that, we would be in the realm of article research and improvement, or merging or something like that, but otherwise it fails the "should it have its own article test". You should, however, make sure that this article is already at the Star Trek fan wikis so the information is not lost to those who love Star Trek, like me. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:07, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. I am reading the actual policy, wp:notability, and fail to see how it fails. Whether it is cited enough is another issue but notability is asserted and supported within the article. Maybe a REFERENCES tag would better be in order for a few weeks. Pharmboy (talk) 22:34, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If fails by having no notability proven through reliable sources. That's it. Its not that its unreferenced, its that there are no references to add, so there is no notability, and should be no article. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:41, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't even make sense. A subject can be notable but not properly referenced (verified). Verifiable is not the same as Notable, and I think you are confusing the two. I can write an article about George Washington with no citations, and assert notability while not providing references (verify). Pharmboy (talk) 16:40, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think saying that there are no references to add is making a big assumption in this case -- that was my point about them taking some time to find. There shouldn't be any urgency to delete an article that seems notable when we know it's verifiable -- tag the article as needing proof of notability, make sure people from appropriate WikiProjects are aware of the problem, and give it some time. Pinball22 (talk) 14:18, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There has been a lot of time since the article was created to establish any notability, but all that has been done is assembling a massive in-universe plot repetition. There are a few days, they should use them to find creator commentary and that stuff, because I haven't been able to. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:37, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or Redirect to Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Brian Boru is awesome (talk) 01:06, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you get the chance EEMIV, would you put one or two in the article? That way we can establish notability for all to see and then we can withdraw the nomination, as my concern, that no references existed anywhere, will be addressed. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:08, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect/merge to List of Star Trek regions of space once it is created. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 04:33, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Badlands (Star Trek)[edit]

Badlands (Star Trek) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The article is not notable, and is simply a repetition in an in-universe way of plot elements from the various Star Trek articles. It is thus totally duplicative and has no encyclopedic content to speak of. Judgesurreal777 21:34, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge/Redirect and maybe get a project to do that rather than forcing the issue. Agathoclea 22:38, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Read the proposal again. Proposer says the article is about the "Star Fleet game". It isn't. Colonel Warden 00:37, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Very sorry about that, was tagged incorrectly, but the article still needs to assert notability. Judgesurreal777 01:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That is from a fan encyclopedia and does not count. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:59, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
With acknowledgements to User:Carcharoth: This is verifiable non-notable information that can be merged to an article on a notable topic to provide the wider context that is needed. A list does not require reliable sources to establish the independent notability of its constituent items; all that is required is that the concept being listed is notable. The individual items do not have to be notable. Wikipedia:Notability quite clearly states the following:

"If appropriate sources cannot be found, if possible, merge the article into a broader article providing context" [...] "For instance, articles on minor characters in a work of fiction may be merged into a "list of minor characters in ..."; articles on schools may be merged into articles on the towns or regions where schools are located; relatives of a famous person may be merged into the article on the person; articles on persons only notable for being associated with a certain group or event may be merged into the main article on that group or event."

It is clear here that mergers of the locations are viable, like minor characters, and would provide sufficient context to retain brief information when any excessive plot summary info has been stripped out. As for redirecting: keeping redirects is cheap, allows categorisation e.g. by series, and prevents existing links from going red. - Fayenatic (talk) 14:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing against them, but we need stuff coming right from the mouths of the creators of this place in Star Trek, and information like that, and their synthesis would not fill in that gap. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 05:34, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As he was a graphic designer and technical consultant for TNG and later series, I'd guess that Mike Okuda _is_ one of the "creators of this place".--uɐɔlnʌɟoʞǝɹɐs 18:25, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Please take any merge discussions to the appropriate talk page. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 04:40, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Descriptions of the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons[edit]

Descriptions of the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete. This page is completely redundant to Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy, has no additional useful content, and it is all Original research. The whole page describes an image, and we can just show the image. The exact description isn't relevant to the controversy anyway, only what they were of (Muhammad). Prodego talk 21:33, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • A translation that is unsourced. If you look on the talk page, it's accuracy has been questioned. Thinking about this now, this probably belongs on the image description page, as Thinboy suggests.Prodego talk 20:48, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sources can be provided. No need to delete an article because it lacks sources. Regarding the translation controversies on the talk page, the ip-user is completely wrong in his direct translation. Perhaps I should address this on the talk page? But I am glad to see that you don't want it deleted after all. I am still under the impression that this is best described in an article of its own, and can concur with the arguments 82.95.254.249 has come with as well. -- Nikolaj Winther (talk) 10:07, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Locobot (talk) 01:12, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Secret account 02:13, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • It seems to me that the place to explain an image for the blind would be on the page that it is always linked to, the description page. Wouldn't you agree. Prodego talk 02:23, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Pigman 05:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Idlers (band)[edit]

The Idlers (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The article's subject is an apparently non-notable band. The article gives no independent sources and does not assert notability.

Also nominating for deletion for the same reason the related articles:

These articles were created by the same person and consist of the discography of the same band. Pyrospirit (talk · contribs) 21:16, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Speedy delete. —Wknight94 (talk) 21:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jeremy Steed[edit]

Jeremy Steed (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Should actually be a speedy deletion but user keeps removing templates. Subject in unnotable and the page is only used to show drunken pictures. Mikemill 20:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

comment already reported for vandal, will wait for block, then speedy, per norm. Pharmboy 21:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep --JForget 00:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of wineries in the Barossa Valley[edit]

List of wineries in the Barossa Valley (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)This article dangerously ressembles a list. Most items would fail the Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_wine_guide test. They are not notable. Winetype 20:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:23, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of vineyards and wineries[edit]

List of vineyards and wineries (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Notability Winetype 20:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This article dangerously ressembles a list. Most items would fail the Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_wine_guide test. They are not notables. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Winetype (talkcontribs) 20:42, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - the only merit in a list (as opposed to a category) is that a list can have red links for articles that are needed, but that in turn requires that the missing items should be notable. This one has a few such links, but are they for notable subjects? Peterkingiron (talk) 23:51, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result wasspeedily deleted as copyvio.—Random832 00:46, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stuart Conaghan[edit]

Stuart Conaghan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Biographical article about a non-notable musician. No references or assertion of notability, should have been caught on NP patrol probably. AvruchTalk 20:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:23, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

HTA (Hi-Tech Applications)[edit]

HTA (Hi-Tech Applications) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

No claim of notability, spam, advert Nick Y. 20:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep but cleanup. Davewild (talk) 10:58, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nick Barratt[edit]

Nick Barratt (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Seems to be promotional. — Yavoh 20:36, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. --Oxymoron83 10:40, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

June Disciples[edit]

June Disciples (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article lacks any notability, and when entered into google search, it seems to return nothing with the exact heading "June Disciples", not anything related to a gang of any sort, seemingly what this article is about. Eastonlee 20:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete --JForget 00:44, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dj dummy[edit]

Dj dummy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

DJ not notable. — Yavoh 20:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:24, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thomas Kind Bendiksen[edit]

Thomas Kind Bendiksen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Youth footballer, has never played a senior game and is not in the senior squad. So fails WP:BIO for sportspeople. Punkmorten 19:54, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete --JForget 01:02, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Salmon fishing with the Dry Fly[edit]

Salmon fishing with the Dry Fly (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Article was prodded - by another editor - with correct explanation that this is a how-to article in violation of WP:NOT, as well as having no sources - all links that appear to be external are in fact to other Wikipedia articles. Author removed prod notice without any explanation. Your username goes here 19:53, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Davewild (talk) 11:02, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vineyard heights[edit]

Vineyard heights (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete article about a California gated residential development built in 1993. Mindmatrix 19:41, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:26, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Qwertycode[edit]

Qwertycode (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

While interesting, no 3rd party verification can be found. Not notable. Pharmboy 19:10, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete --JForget 01:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Glued money[edit]

Glued money (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article about a type of prank is uncited & unverfied, and besides, Wikipedia is not for things made up one day. Ginkgo100talk 18:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC) EDIT: This article is not eligible for speedy deletion or I would already have done it. Prod was removed. --Ginkgo100talk 01:52, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. John254 03:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Contract attorney[edit]

Contract attorney (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

1) article is orphaned with no article linking to it 2) Only one anonymous author 3) This article is just a term definition and belongs in Wiki Dictionary 4) Seems like just any excuse for spam links Fife Club 16:56, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm the nominator. Just wanted to clarify reason #2 was incorrect (was looking at the talk page). Not just one author for this article, but this is still an orphaned article. Perhaps this is better suited for WikiDictionary (and possible link farming). --Fife Club 17:05, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete and recreate as redirect to The Catherine Tate Show characters#Derek Faye. Davewild (talk) 11:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Derek Faye[edit]

Derek Faye (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Fictional character with no indication of notability, and no sources to establish real world relevance. — Coren (talk) 18:29, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Secret account 02:19, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Evolutionary relay[edit]

Evolutionary relay (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

I'm not a biologist but it looks like this is just a neologism. P4k 06:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No Consensus between those who see it just as unencyclopedic plot summaries and the opposing view that it is verifiable (and have identified some sources) and can have real life context. Davewild (talk) 11:27, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of problems solved by MacGyver[edit]

List of problems solved by MacGyver (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Largely originial research and synthesis, fails WP:N, is unattributable and unsalvageably unencyclopedic. If it can be trankswikied to a MacGuyver wiki, it should be. Cumulus Clouds 04:12, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I withdraw that, as I didn't notice how many "problems solved" were listed for each episode. Brad 13:13, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
call them what ever you want it's a list of plot elements from a tv show.Ridernyc 02:12, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Quoth WP:NOT#PLOT: "not solely a detailed summary of that work's plot" -- these aren't detailed, and they aren't the whole plot. —Quasirandom 04:05, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
you have to be joking. Ridernyc 06:23, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Still dose not change the fact that article has no real world context and is just summary of plot elements. Ridernyc 10:42, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As I said above, there is real world context in the main MacGyver article that can be moved into this article. Here is some more real world context: [13] [14] [15]. There is a cute book here called What Would Macgyver Do?: True Stories of Improvised Genius in Everyday Life. (By the way, I can't get the blasted theme tune out of my head now :p) Bláthnaid 10:57, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have added some real world context about how the creative team behind MacGyver chose the problems. Some were suggested by scientists, some from a write-in competition, and I've read that G. Gordon Liddy even suggested some. (Unfortunately, I didn't read the Liddy part in a RS, so I can't add it to the article yet.) There is more information available eg here. More real world context that could be added include whether the MacGyverisms worked in real life (some didn't to prevent children from injuring themselves), which could be sourced using the book I mentioned above. If the article is kept, I will trim down the plot elements. Bláthnaid 09:10, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Davewild (talk) 11:35, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Metro Mall (Queens)[edit]

Metro Mall (Queens) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable small mall in New York, seems to fail WP:RS (I should know, since I tried to source this article before). Ten Pound Hammer(Broken clamshellsOtter chirps) 15:52, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Try searching for "Metro Mall Queens." Blueboy96 22:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Redirect to Diplomatic missions of Romania. Non-admin closure. Tx17777 23:55, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Romanian diplomatic missions[edit]

Romanian diplomatic missions (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Diplomatic missions of Romania contains the same information (I think). Delete Romanian diplomatic missions and insert redirect to Diplomatic missions of Romania. Kransky 12:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Redirected to The Night the Animals Talked (not by me), non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer(Broken clamshellsOtter chirps) 19:32, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The night the animals talked[edit]

The_night_the_animals_talked (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - (View AfD)

This article has been duplicated using its corrected title--so this exists already on "The Night the Animals Talked", and this one should be removed.

Agree. Nothing more needs to be said - this is a duplicate now. Merenta 18:13, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I changed the page to a redirect per WP:BOLD, I don't see a need for deletion. hateless 19:32, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Davewild (talk) 11:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Twelve Oaks[edit]

Twelve Oaks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The article is not notable, and has no references to verify its contents. As such, it is just a repetition of various plot facts from the Gone With the Wind movie article, and is totally duplicative of those articles. Judgesurreal777 22:04, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is nothing encyclopedic about it, and it is just repetition of the plot of Gone with the Wind. As there is no commentary of any kind from an outside perspective, it is totally unencyclopedic to have an article of just unsourced plot repetition. Look around, you wont find any policies supporting that. Judgesurreal777 21:42, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. discounting the WP:SPA Secret account 02:21, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Deliantra (computer game)[edit]

Deliantra (computer game) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Article shows no citations for independent, reliable coverage required for notability (WP:N), and has no third-party references for (WP:V). My original prod in October was contested on the grounds that the subject is of historical interest, however see the comments on my talk page here - User talk:Marasmusine#Fishy Deliantra claims - these claims seem to be confused with Crossfire (computer game) (itself of dubious notability, but that's a different matter.) Marasmusine 18:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is no question that Deliantra is a fork of Crossfire, born in 2006 from the work of a minority of developers. The first versions of the Deliantra Wikipedia page, written by one of the main Deliantra's contributors, explicitely confirm this by saying The project started in May 2006 and had constantly progress since then. It is well possible that Deliantra influenced the gaming scene after that date, but this has yet to be proven.80.201.137.68 (talk) 16:52, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

the very few really free (free as in free software) MMORPGs around that are still very active. There was considerable development (technical enhancements on the engine, balancement of the game data, addition of new content) for the last 2 years. It so represents a notable continuation of a very old project. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elmex (talk • contribs) 14:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So, instead of the guideline of "...has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject", you wish to claim that Deliantra is noteworthy because it was influential, one of few free MMORPGs that are still active, and is a continuation of an old project. If we agree to accept that, then those points will still need backing up with reliable, third-party references, per WP:V, which is not a guideline but one of Wikipedia's core policies. Marasmusine (talk) 14:12, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein (talk) 07:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ready room (Star Trek)[edit]

Ready room (Star Trek) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
File:Ready Room.jpg (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (added by closing admin)

Article makes no assertion of real-world notability. Is entirely in-universe plot summary and trivia. --EEMIV (talk) 18:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - There needs to be an assertion of notability. Judgesurreal777 19:32, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Watch me be unhelpful:
  1. Here's a bunch of news hits referencing the Trek "ready room", suggesting coverage in reliable secondary sources
  2. Here's the actual "Ready room" article on Wikipedia, where analysis about the concept of a ready room could go, allowing much of this content to be merged (into general Trek articles, and into "in popular culture" on the "Ready room" article).
Repeat: I abstain. :) --- tqbf 00:21, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, you are helpful :) I could see tqbf's merger, giving Ready room a nice, sourced section titled "In Star Trek". My only concern is that the section about Star Trek would be longer than the rest of the article! —Disavian (talk/contribs) 00:52, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein (talk) 07:58, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sly (goblin character)[edit]

Sly (goblin character) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

No evidence of notability, WP:RS WP:OR. Even the parent article Make Way for Noddy doesn't appear to bother linking to it. Verdatum 18:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Contact me or another admin for restoration once you are convinced the film meets the notability guideline WP:N. Sandstein (talk) 08:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

BLAST (movie)[edit]

BLAST (movie) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete nn film - not mentioned on IMDB Mayalld 17:52, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(Edit conflict) Merge into Paul Devlin (filmmaker). Topic has some notability, but not enough for own article. --Son 18:01, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We are currently awaiting the film's profile to be approved on IMDB. Until then, please feel free to visit our official website blastthemovie.com to confirm the legitimacy of the film. --Bloodybonnie 18:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What would we need to add to the page to make it not viable for deletion? --Bloodybonnie 20:20, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein (talk) 08:02, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pick Me Up Magazine[edit]

Pick Me Up Magazine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Notability not asserted. There are dozens of this type of magazine on the market and there is no apparent reason why this stands out from them. Rodhullandemu (please reply here - contribs) 17:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

:NOTE- Although this appears as a second AfD, there might be a problem with WP:Twinkle and it has been reported. It seems to have been previously speedied, in which case no record will exist unless an admin undeletes the original. --Rodhullandemu (please reply here - contribs) 23:14, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See later note added above --Rodhullandemu (please reply here - contribs) 23:14, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - The article doesn't really say anything about what makes it different than other magazines, other than being cheap. Chrisjtb, if you want the article to not be deleted, you should fix it. Please don't create an article and expect others to accept it when it is sub-standard, or to fix it when you probably know more about it than us. I'm willing to keep a good article about this mag, not this article as it stands. —ScouterSig 15:57, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article is written in a neutral fashion and it is factually correct. It therfore sheds light on an area that previously had little light. Chrisjtb 12:15, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If that is the case where is the consistency? Either teh other non notable artcles need to be deleted or thsi one accepted!. Chrisjtb 14:36, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Sandstein (talk) 08:02, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Långrocken[edit]

Långrocken (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The article needs sources to verify its information. A source is mention at the bottom but it is unclear to what extent that source is used or what that source says. I have not been able to find a mention of "Långrocken" through google searches (other than links to Wikipedia). Previous requests for additional sources have been reverted. [18] [19] If the best source is "The story of Långrocken is also mentioned in the autobiography of Ture Nerman", without further information, then the topic appears unverifiable.

It is also unclear whether this attacker is notable in any way. Is a person notable for attacking "several" women in 1893? Modern sources say nothing of him; possibly not all rapists are notable. Fred-J 17:41, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:54, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kayla Nebeker Karhohs[edit]

Kayla Nebeker Karhohs (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Subject does not qualify for inclusion under WP:BIO. So she died of cancer, many people do. Many other more famous people died of the brain cancer this young woman died from (Ivan Noble, for one). Arbiteroftruth (talk) 23:32, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Scientizzle 17:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Without limiting the notability requirements to one specific criterion, this article, in my opinion, would have to overcome temporary notability first in order to consider anything else as a proof of notability. It may or it may not become notable but until then Wikipedia should not be treated as a crystal ball.SWik78 20:13, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Tyrenius (talk) 01:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cynthia loebe[edit]

Cynthia loebe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Vanispamcruft of non-notable person. Article created by subject. No references to establish notability or verifiability. Nobody of Consequence 17:34, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:41, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Heath School[edit]

Heath School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable elementary school, unsourced, prod tag removed. AnteaterZot 17:15, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Speedy delete by ESkog (talk · contribs). — Scientizzle 17:41, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Valhalla Belt[edit]

Valhalla Belt (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

non-notable neologism, completely unreferenced, seems to be a reference to a nn martial arts club in Kent, UK [21] Mayalld 16:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:49, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

John R. Fausey School[edit]

John R. Fausey School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Yet another non-notable elementary school, prod tag removed, sorry to bother AfD with this one. Unsourced. AnteaterZot 16:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy delete, vandalism. WODUP 16:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Brad Weaver[edit]

Brad Weaver (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Not notable rude Harland1 16:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Sources have been added since this AfD started that prove notability. Non-admin closure. NF24(radio me!) 13:31, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Victim of Romance[edit]

Victim of Romance (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable album, unsourced, page itself says record was unsuccessful. AnteaterZot 16:20, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete, implemented as a redirect to Crime in India so that content can be merged from the history without breaking GFDL compliance. Sandstein (talk) 08:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Crime against foreigners in India[edit]

Crime against foreigners in India (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Contested PROD. Content may be notable but is non-encyclopedic, certainly not deserving of an article of its own. Delete. Blanchardb-MeMyEarsMyMouth-timed 16:19, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply This issue will be mentioned in Crime in India article, as there are mention of Corruption in India, Religious violence in India etc, but for all there is a separate article. But in Crime in India article, it would be impossible to mention elaborately about the crimes comitted against foreign citizens. I have just created the article. It would be expanded gradually. There are several incidents of crimes against foreign citizens and tourists in India. There are several rape cases reported in India against foreign citizens. Some high profile cases caused huge upheaval among the political circles also. And there are crimes which are specifically committed against foreign citizens only. Like the scam incidents, the criminal only target foreign citizens. There are several incidents of passport thefts against foreign citizens only. And there are so many. Hence the need of this article. Otolemur crassicaudatus 17:01, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This are not flawed arguments. And don't try to disrupt this discussion. This page is purely for debate over the article. I direct attention to this from where other users may be able to know about user Ghanadar's motivations. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 15:37, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is no vote-casting policy from me, nor I am anti-Indian. I just want to inform other editors who are interested in the subject. Good editors give vote according to their own judgement. They are not influenced by others. User Ghanadar galpa is busy to spread a dirty propaganda against me and articles I have created. This page is not for discussing about particular editor. So I cannot put much information about Ghanadar here. To know more about user Ghanadar galpa, see this Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 15:31, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep --JForget 01:05, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of Christmas films[edit]

List of Christmas films (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Unending and unnecessary list of Christmas films. Christmas is notable, obviously, and its treatment in the media, as a well cited over all discussion, is great. However, this is already done in Christmas in the media, making this list redundant as well as being almost entirely WP:OR and WP:NPOV. Collectonian 15:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages because it is of a similar nature

List of Christmas television specials (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Keep This is an absolutely useful index of items. jengod 09:11, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Azkadellia[edit]

Azkadellia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Created page for a fictional character from the new Tin Man (TV miniseries) that is completely unnotable and total plot regurgitation. Completely unnecessary POV fork. Collectonian 15:19, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep. I actually agree with everything the nominator said, and normally would vote delete, but the Afd tag was placed after the author had posted an under construction tag, and the article had existed for less than an hour when tagged. I actually encourage the author to look long and hard at editing the the Tin Man article (currently semi-protected), because I think it will be difficult to create a separate article that survives. Xymmax 15:44, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect the main reason this article was created is as a POV fork because multiple editors already said that discussion of any ties to the Wizard of Oz should go in production details and must be cited, instead of being viewer/editor guesses in the character sections. However, giving the benefit of the doubt, the editor who made it seems extremely inexperienced and may simply have not realized that character articles are strongly discouraged. He also first made Azkadellia the Sorceress which now redirects to Azkadellia (and is the main reason I didn't just redirect back to Tin Man, as I believe double redirects are considered bad?). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Collectonian (talk • contribs) 15:57, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My rationale is just that Azkadellia is arguably the only main character who is not a clearly identifiable analogue of a Wizard of Oz character (in which case I agree that the material should go under "modern versions" of the existing page for the book character). Having read some of the rationale for reversion of "unsourced" associations between the Wizard of Oz and Tin Man, I would aver that it will be straightforward in the long run to get citations. In answer to Xymmax, I have read the Talk page for Tin Man, and I would say that if we are all waiting for the writers and Sci-Fi to make a definitive statement about parallels, we're naturally not going to get an assertion that everything is completely deriviative, but that there are many credible published reviews (modulo Wikipedia policy) that treat this subject. As for the redirect, if by "double" redirects you mean transitive ones (Tin Man to Azkadellia to Azkadellia the Sorceress), I would be happy to "flatten" all transitive redirects to go directly to the character page. — Banazir 16:12, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, by double I meant going from Azkadellia the Sorceress to Azkadellia to Tin Man. Individual character articles are not encouraged nor generally notable (see WP:FICT). It has already been said that any SOURCED parallels between the films goes in the production details, particularly when Sci-Fi and RHI have already stated quite clearly that they have mostly only made allusions to the origin, not direct parallels or direct derivatives. Either way, any such discussion goes in the main article, and your creating this subarticle just to try to put it in, despite what is appropriate per both of the MOS that apply to this film and what more experienced editors have told you, is not appropriate. Collectonian 16:18, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So noted regarding the cycle of redirection; if consensus is that cycles such as that one are bad, that is easily corrected. I would submit (cf. WP:FICT) that "technical reasons (such as length or style)" would pertain here, especially organizational aspects of style. There is a lot of information about this character that would clutter up a list-format section of a miniseries page. Furthermore, I think that this page serves as a bridge between the miniseries page and that of a tangentially related character from the book and film - one that is, by contrast, not needed for the Scarecrow, Tin Man, and Lion. As for the fact that a work's "writers have already stated" that their re-imagining is "inspired by" and not "direct derivatives of" a work: I prefer to go by the entire body of available critical analysis (in this case, primarily consisting of professional reviews) rather than the word of the principal authors alone. Also as Xymmax indicated, I just created this page an hour ago and have not had time to collect such sourced analyses that are not just about parallels. More important, to finish actually constructing the page as the Under Construction tag indicates, I would add more material from interviews and regarding critical reception, which is not all out in print yet. I would ask for time to do so, but if other editors concur that this page should be deleted in the interim, that's certainly acceptable to me. — Banazir 16:41, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, and done: I've added two cited sources now, and will add more later. — Banazir (talk) 08:30, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Now there are eight, including two press releases (from Sci Fi Wire), two press videos (from Sci Fi Pulse) with interviews, and four independent reviews including one single-part plot synopsis, two whole-series reviews, and one technical review of the CG creatures (winged monkeys or mobats). — Banazir (talk) 03:48, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hang on - have you actually looked at my recent edits? I've already corrected those points. Furthermore, it is unarguable fact that characters in the series referred to the old woman in the cave as "the wicked witch", "the Evil Witch of the Dark", etc. Most important, I am collecting citations for various sources (reviews of the series) that document critical reception of Azkadellia. In short, the article is about Azkadellia, and its notability and relevance should not (and does not) depend on that of the Wicked Witch of the West. — Banazir (talk) 06:02, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Similarly, as the most vocal critics of comparison of Tin Man and TWOO have themselves said, it's not a moratorium or general ban that they seek, just proper sourcing. I agree there should be no such suppressive measure. Here is my position, for the record: I don't feel that a sourced disclaimer by the author of a work regarding derivative nature invalidates comparisons. Current reviews in print both praise and criticize Tin Man for its departures, and they also critique parallels, particularly how Tin Man adapts character concepts from TWOO. My view is that you can't have a complete critical review of a re-imagining without both. Moreover, the discussion here indicates no general consensus that I can see regarding inferences that are being characterized as original research cf. WP:OR.
Contrary to some claims, a July preview of Tin Man at Sci Fi Wire (http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=2&id=42220, cited in the primary article and this one) flatly refers to Azkadellia as "the equivalent of the Wicked Witch of the West". We can discuss whether this is accurate in light of the series itself, but it is a direct assertion in an article from the producer's news service - essentially a press release.
I accept that the documentation that forms the current version of the page recaps some plot information that could be put into the main page, but I think the page already contains enough character-specific material, by volume, that it would be unwieldy to try to cram it all back in.
Banazir (talk) 09:19, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is only one section, portrayal & criticism, which is not pure plot regurgitation and it belongs in the main article as part of the reaction section. Even the plot stuff could go in the main article as I see no one has still bothered to finish the sections for parts 2 & 3. There is NOTHING in this article that establishes notability apart from the film, and nit does not need to be separate from the main article. AnmaFinotera (talk) 15:23, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I actually agree that most of the plot details can, and should, be reabsorbed into the Part 2 and 3 plot sections for Tin Man. Critical reception of Tin Man as a whole, however, is just that - it is to be distinguished from the critical reception of the character of Azkadellia. The latter has been written about quite a bit now, and IMO warrants its own section within a character page. More important, though, is the organizational rationale for any character page for a recent work of popular fiction: if the character is notable in its originality, portrayal, or even departure from a better-known counterpart (in the case of re-imaginings), then a standalone page is worth having. As a commentator (74.227.6.174) noted below, Azkadellia is distinguishable from other Tin Man characters precisely because of this degree of departure. If you adhere to a dogmatic view that there should be no character pages for pop fiction or miniseries, period, then we will have to agree to disagree. — Banazir (talk) 16:18, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Have you ever actually looked at the Film and/or TV MOS? Or the Fiction MOS in general? Character pages are generally not appropriate and not necessary, especially for a character that appears in only a single film. Critial reviews and what not of Az would certainly be appropriate in the character section or as part of the over all view of the film (individual performance critics are just as relevant to the film as a whole). You have yet to establish any real notability from the character apart from the film, nor explained why you feel it doesn't belong in the Tin Man article. The Tin Man article certainly isn't excessive in side, in fact its rather pathetic looking (and considering its new, jumping to a sub article just seems excessive to me). AnmaFinotera (talk) 21:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have read WP:MOS and several of the Wikipedia essays such as WP:FICT that you cite, and that's it. Like Rickyrab in the Tin Man discussion page thread on character pages, I would appreciate a link. FWIW, I do agree that the Tin Man article is presently pathetic-looking, but it's a matter of fleshing out the Part 2 and 3 summaries and then moving on to production details, critical reception and analyses, and handling the in-references as we (you, I, and everyone else) see fit. I don't see the barely-above-stub level status of the page persisting more than another week or two, and we can take that as a statement of commitment to add content if there's any worry that I am prognosticating. — Banazir (talk) 22:18, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Film MOS and TV MOS. AnmaFinotera (talk) 00:01, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the links. I went and looked those up as well as the Fiction MOS and the MOS for television episodes. Banazir (talk) 00:51, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
None of the characters are straight analogues of the WWOO "counterparts" nor were they intended to be. AnmaFinotera (talk) 15:23, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
With all due respect, Collectonian, you can keep stomping on the words "analogues" and "counterparts" as much as you like, but it won't erase the fact that Sci Fi itself refers to Azkadellia as "the equivalent of the Wicked Witch of the West" in their press release, her portrayer (Kathleen Robertson) refers to her role as that of "an iconic villainess", etc. Neither I nor anyone else I see editing the Tin Man or Azkadellia pages is asserting that they are straight analogues in the sense of a remake. Yes, Tin Man is a re-imagining in the sense that the 2003 Battlestar Galactica TV series is a re-imagining of the original 1978/1980 series. "Counterpart" is not a strict technical term and IMO should not be restricted, neither is documenting the interpretations of the actors, principal creators (writers), and professional reviewers of the work unsourced guesswork. — Banazir (talk) 16:29, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
While I would be open to the idea of a character page with all of the characters and just a section for Azkadellia, my feeling is that there's a rather well-defined line between "strongly inspired by" (cf. Raw and Glitch; for all their backstories and talents, they are played rather archetypically) versus "complete re-imagining of" or "new twist on". I think Az falls on the "complete departure" side of the line. I'm certainly open to suggestions as to what you consider "fleshing out". My plan is to keep adding material on the sources that inspired her creators - from their interviews and critical reviews that have come out and that I just haven't had time to collect yet (and that perhaps other editors will add). Any other ideas? — Banazir (talk) 18:26, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The jury seems to still be out on side-by-side comparisons of Tin Man and WWOO characters; I'm happy to go with consensus either way, but I don't relish arguing or wrangling over every point of observation or direct inference. That way lies the flip side of the coin, WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Some editor eschew trivia sections in works of fiction as matter of course, and similarly, some are automatically going to oppose any character page of a new series or any comparative review of a re-imagining as being inappropriate (premature, OR, POV, etc.). — Banazir (talk) 18:47, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I had read WP:OR and WP:RS before, and I disagree that the press releases fail a reliability test, but I'm open to criticism on the TV Guide and other television media reviews. I would never compare Azkadellia to James Kirk or Pooh, but perhaps Rick Deckard or Gaston might be apt analogies (single film, central character). OTOH, if someone makes a page of Tin Man characters and suggested merging this article with it cf. Rose DeWitt Bukater into the list of Titanic characters, I personally would be glad to go along with that, as Xymmax suggested up at the top of this AfD discussion. As for WP:NOT#PLOT, I agree that this page needs some work there, too, and that a lot of summary information ought to be merged back into the main series article. These things take some time. — Banazir (talk) 05:17, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: For the record, my reason for having this article is as a repository of story-external information about the character: the creative process of adapting the iconic, archetypal Wicked Witch from TWOO; the actors' and writers' views on her portrayal in this series; her critical reception (and, say, any awards won, though those decisions are still some time off in the future). I do feel strongly that simply merging Az back into Tin Man itself would lose a lot of information, or at the least, create an organizational and stylistic headache, since the amount of information that would go into the (currently stub-class) series page, even after plot material were migrated over, would be a significant fraction of what is there now. Pursuant to WP:FICT, I would cite the "technical reasons" it mentions as possible exceptions to a doctrine of "no character pages for single works of fiction". We're talking about a 3-part miniseries: everything from a character photo to costumes to articles on merchandising, etc. This material is already out there, and what's left to do is to sift through it to assess notability. — Banazir (talk) 05:37, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Having said why I made this page, I should also say that for the record, I think that a careful comparison with the Wicked Witch from The Wonderful Wizard of Oz is in order. It's not why I forked the page, but since that issue has become a matter of some debate on the Tin Man discussion page, I think it's apt to point out that a) clearly Azkadellia is a standalone character not wholly derivative of the WWoTW (a point in favor of keeping this article rather than merging it into Wicked Witch) and b) clearly the allusion to that same character via her possessor is strong, both visually and in plot and dialogue homages ("wow, she melted!"). I'd spell it all out, but some of this lacks for sources and would be OR if we just wrote it into the article. It's no stretch to see that some (read: enough) of this information has already been supplied by the writers and cast in interviews and just needs sourcing, while more of it (beyond the essential material we already have) will materialize in the coming months as often happens with films and TV miniseries. We are not waiting for sources that may or may not get published, but collecting sources that exist and checking them for authoritativeness. — Banazir (talk) 05:44, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I stand corrected. I reviewed "A Touch More Evil", and in a scene that occurs after Cain shoots Zora, Az clearly has eight tattoos, four on each side, and the center one (apparently corresponding to Zora) is gone. Presumably there were originally nine (on the front side of her body, at least), but I haven't seen a frame where all nine are visible. Her costumes tend to hide the two on her shoulders. Thanks for spotting this. — Banazir (talk) 19:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy delete as part of an ongoing long-term pattern of hoax and sneaky vandalism by Winksajdl;aslkdjasklj (talk · contribs · checkuser · block user · block log · edit count), who has used several other accounts. Uncle G 18:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Darren "Two Sheds" Jackson[edit]

Darren "Two Sheds" Jackson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Initially tagged as a speedy deletion, but I declined since this does make an attempt to assert notability, and to cite references. However, the links provided don't seem to describe the subject non-trivially/independently and may have issues with reliability (one, for example, is a Tripod site). Still, there does seem to be a possibility that the subject is in fact notable, but, if so, better sources will be needed to substantiate that. — TKD::Talk 14:31, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The orignal article had no content taken from the Geoff Thompson page, again its been edited. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Diamonddannyboy (talkcontribs) 18:03, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:50, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Swahili Imports[edit]

Swahili Imports (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article is an advertisement for a non-notable corporation, mostly written and edited by a representative of that company Malangali 13:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus, but not to be kept in present form—The consensus is that the article needs serious changes in tone and content. The article will be so-tagged. I believe common practice is that if the issues are not addressed within a reasonable time (probably a month or so), then it can be brought back here for re-evaluation taking into account lack of change in the article since last AFD. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 18:52, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Emma Bossons[edit]

Emma Bossons (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Nominated purely for WP:COI issues within the article as one editor has bought up on the Moorcroft, also these entries unsourced and notability of these entries are questionable, plus these are nothing but a vanity page as these consists of nothing but a list of trivial information, plus where is the promised cleanup, it dosen't exist

On a note, I want to nominate Moorcroft, but this needs vast cleanup. Charley Uchea (talk) 17:06, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 12:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, if the article was to be kept, then whatever is tagged on the page should be dealt with ASAP as within a month, otherwise a deletion would be best to deal with this issues.Willirennen (talk) 17:45, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 03:20, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Unbiased Advisor[edit]

The Unbiased Advisor (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non notable book. Hammer1980·talk 17:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 12:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:43, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

History Videos[edit]

History Videos (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete non-notable series of amateur videos. Unreferenced Mayalld 11:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Although interestingly, the last AfD was over two years ago - which is a long period of time in Wikipedia terms.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 16:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Correct, although the current version does nothing to address the issues for which it was deleted (notability and verfiability). I'm not a big fan of rerunning AfDs simply because we can. Besides, our inclusion standards have tightened up considerably since then, so extremely few things deletable by our 2005 stardards would be keepable today. If anything, the fact that nothing significantly new has happened in the previous two years suggests our decision then was spot-on: that this is unverifiable, unreferencable, utterly non-notable and completely unencyclopedic. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 16:34, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was sorely tempted to speedy as a G4, but suspected that it would keep getting recreated and that somebody would cry foul for relying on an old AfD, etc. etc. Mayalld 16:49, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. John254 03:22, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fairfax Financial Holdings[edit]

Fairfax Financial Holdings (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete or Stub Longstanding stub article has been rapidly grown into a blatant corporate brochure for the company. Several editors seem to have WP:COI issues. Mayalld 11:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • comment Why have you set this article for deletion? The Wikipedia entry for Fairfax had been created about 3 years ago (Aug.13, 2004). Up'till now, the article sparsely described the company. After over 3 years, the article has gotten finally extended with lots of reference links, and now someone is suggesting it for deletion. I don't understand Wikipedia anymore. I'm an independent Wikipedia reader and I think that all information about this company has been compiled from publicly available sources on the internet, like S.E.C. EDGAR files, newspaper and magazine articles. IMHO, it's a shame to put this article for deletion. Please feel free to google every references about this company. If you can do it better, please feel free to make suggestions ? (IntrinsicV) —Preceding unsigned comment added by IntrinsicV (talkcontribs) 12:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment I've put it up because there has been a suspicious growth from a stub into an article that simply regurgitates company PR material. I am ambivalent as to whether we (1) return it to a stub, (2) edit the PR speak out to make it a sensible article (3) delete it. If the article gets improved, I'll change my vote to keep Mayalld 12:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment I totally agree with your ambivalent character. I think the article should be edited (2), to make it more objective and sensible. Return it to an imperfect(1) or to delete it(3) makes no sense, and should NOT be done, because this wouldn't serve most of us readers and what makes Wikipedia's profoundness. Since I'm a novice about this, I'm a little afraid that I destroy the article main substance. I guess it makes sense that I deleted most of the Corporate Values area. I like to hear more suggestions how this article can become a more objective article. All suggestions are appreciated for a novice editor ? IntrinsicV 14:01, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The executive biographies of Prem Watsa and Francis Chou are a crucial part of this company, like Bill Gates at Microsoft, and Warren Buffett at Berkshire Hathaway. Prem Watsa is under the top 100 Canadian business leaders with a personal wealth of at least $500 million (CAD) and co-founder Francis Chou runs a $1 billion (CAD) dollar mutual fund group. Both shun any publicity, --no press--, thus they both live a life like Yoda on Dagobah, very reclusive. While perhaps 80% of money managers on Wall Street can't beat the market over long term time periods, yet this outstanding duo of Watsa and Chou have both done it consistently. They are probably in the top 1% league of money managers that have beaten the markets (in the last 21 years, since founding, +24%p.a. growth in book value per share). The history of Fairfax, Hamblin Watsa Investment Council, Prem Watsa and Francis Chou is coherent. We would undermine a vital part of the history of Fairfax for the unaware reader if we leave someting out.IntrinsicV 16:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • In which case, they may well be notable themselves - put their bios into separate pages Mayalld 16:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • At your request, I have added a Prem Watsa stub to Wikipedia.--IntrinsicV 18:14, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete --JForget 01:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Martina Mariotti[edit]

Martina Mariotti (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

As far as I can tell from the article as it stands, the only thing which might establish this person’s notability in Wikipedia’s sense is the un-named and unreferenced “widely published paper discussing the political intervention in Italian media, particularly that of former Primer Minister Silvio Berlusconi.”

Yet a Google search for ‘"Marina Mariotti" berlusconi’ produces only two hits: one to this article and one to a 9Mb pdf which may, or may not, refer to the paper or, indeed, to the same Mariotti. (I didn’t think the download worthwhile.) Apparently not a widely-discussed paper. I think that the article as it stands should be deleted, just as its predecessor was, and that it should only be re-created if very clear notability can be established from the start. —Ian Spackman 09:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps it is worth noting that:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Tyrenius (talk) 01:23, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Joanne (Jo) Bradford[edit]

Joanne (Jo) Bradford (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Possibly non-notable, reads like an advert. h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 10:48, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Wikipedia needs reliable sources to verify which criteria is use for this article. It contains point of views which are potentially WP:OR and non-neutral. So it is better to not write about subject. Carlosguitar (ready and willing) 01:06, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of FA Cup giant-killings[edit]

Previous AFD
List of FA Cup giant-killings (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The criteria used to describe what a giant-killing constitutes is inherently original research and, per a recent discussion at WP:FOOTBALL there's quite a strong consensus for deletion. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:18, 23 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If we reproduced those lists, though, wouldn't that be copyvio....? ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:28, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, so please define what a "giant-killing" constitutes precisely. Do you agree the current criteria are what make a giant killing? And do Sky and the News of the World have the same criteria as this article or even each other? The Rambling Man (talk) 09:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't own any Sky books so can't speak for them. I own quite a lot of NotW books but I can't check them right now as they're at home, but as I recall they just have a section headed something like "famous shock results" and don't set out any specific criteria..... ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:59, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And, while we're at it, why shouldn't Chasetowns win over Port Vale be considered a giant killing? According to the current criteria, because Port Vale aren't in the top two divisions, it can't be listed. There's a five-division discrepancy between the two teams. That's about as "giant-killing" as it gets. But it's not going to make the list. Unless we add/modify the criteria. Which is precisely the problem with the list in the first place. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:05, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)

To be honest I don't think it's possible to define giant-killing. Like I said above, the BBC cast giant-killing on even non-league teams beating other non-league teams and also Bury beating Leeds in the Football League Trophy. Yet one FA Cup story I found for Third Round day was headlined "FA Cup reaches giant-killing stage" with the implied suggestion that only teams from the top two divisions can be giant-killed. As much as I want to keep this, I reckon it's only a delete (because of WP:OR reasons and problems with sourcing the definition) or create a new entry, such as List of non-league teams beating league teams in the FA Cup or List of top tier sides beaten by lower league opposition in the FA Cup - both unwieldy titles. Peanut4 (talk) 10:07, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
From WP:NOR, "Research that consists of collecting and organizing material from existing sources within the provisions of this and other content policies is encouraged: this is "source-based research," and it is fundamental to writing an encyclopedia." All that needs to be done is come up with an set of criteria and apply it based on the sources available and possibly move the article to a more appropriate name. Catchpole (talk) 10:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"All that needs to be done is come up with an set of criteria..." thats that first big problem. "...the sources available ..." that's the second problem with this list - there are no reliable sources. In the current state the article should be deleted. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:20, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Encyclopedia of British Football (ed. Cox, Russell, Vamplew, 2002 ISBN 0714682306) has a six page section on 'Giant killers', complete with sources and match descriptions. Catchpole (talk) 10:35, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And reprinting it here would be a copyvio. Do they mention their criteria? The Rambling Man (talk) 10:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You can read it starting here...... ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Very nice! The Rambling Man (talk) 10:51, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

One of the main sources appears to be a book written by Geoff Tibballs entitled "FA Cup Giant Killers", I've added this to the article as a good source. Catchpole (talk) 10:48, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But that source hasn't been used in the selection of matches here has it? Does it have the same criteria which have been arbitrarily selected here? The Rambling Man (talk) 10:51, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
(ec)I have the 1996 NOTW annual about me, which has a giant-killing list. It doesn't say, and I can't tell at quick glance without knowing what divisions the clubs were in at the time, what criteria they adopt. It names about 75 results in the ten years up to 1996, about 30 in the previous ten years, and about another 30 in the whole preceding history of the FA Cup. Which to me looks pretty recentist, unless shock results only started happening in the last 30 years. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:21, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

←There is precedent for this at Polymath, where every Tom, Dick and Harry's favourite genius used to be inserted on the basis that they once did a chemistry experiment or published a book on sailor's knots or whatever. Now only people cited in RS as a polymath remain listed. However, in this case, it brings its own problems. Sports journalists tend to get a bit excitable. If (say) Fulham of the English Premier League, defeated Man Utd in an FA Cup game, I wouldn't be surprised to find an RS that described it as a "giant-killing" and I would expect to see it reported as an "upset", yet it would not be a notable match and in encyclopedic terms shouldn't be included. Yet how could we exclude it without contravening NPOV? I just think this is unrescuable. --Dweller (talk) 11:38, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

'Upset' is far worse than Giant Killing as its even more in the eye of the beholder. Wins by clubs near the bottom of the Premier against the big four are usually described as upsets. With over 700 ties taking place each season that means at least 50 games each season. For the list to have any value it needs to avoid recentism and include only the most notable results. This was the whole point of the current criteria. Its obvious that there is no agreement on the criteria so this is a clear delete for me I'm afraid. Valenciano (talk) 11:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, this is an oustanding example of a deletion debate. Kudos to everyone involved. --Dweller (talk) 11:52, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

People need to keep Wikipedia policies in mind here.
First WP:Verify says that results should be backed against reliable sources. I'm sure we could do that with results currently in the list. But theres also WP:Notability which says: "A short burst of news reports about a topic does not necessarily constitute evidence of long-term notability" in other words just because journalist X considers a result an upset today doesn't mean it will be remembered five years from now. So those two need to be balanced against each other.
Second WP:NoOriginalResearch. Thatš the problem with the list regardless of how we tinker with it. If we're not going to have a pointless indiscriminate list of 5000 odd results we need criteria. But to cover results which always crop up on the lists those criteria will always be arbitrary e.g. "a three division gap over top flight clubs or a two division gap if they finished in the top six or won the cup the previous season; or a four division gap for lower level clubs; or a one division gap for the final"
Thirdly WP:I like it. Yes it's an interesting list but that doesn't make it encyclopedic. Valenciano (talk) 12:39, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Good summing up. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:06, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Re: WP:Verify. I totally agree, which is why I would rather see the criteria be sourced rather than individual results. That way it avoids one journalist at either the BBC, or a local newspaper, but at any RS, getting carried away with one win. If such verification isn't possible, then the only possible result of this titled entry is delete.
Re: WP:I like it. I think this list suits WP:LIST. It is a structured chronological list, partly as an off shoot of the FA Cup entry, and would be of the giant-killing entry currently on the Requests list. Peanut4 (talk) 14:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But the problem is that who decides which criteria is correct? There's no right answer. There wasn't much response to the question "why Chasetown beating Port Vale (five divisions above them) shouldn't go in this list". The reason why it all went quiet was because I suspect we all know the answer and it's that the criteria will always be subjective, therefore POV, therefore unsuitable for an article like this. 192.93.164.23 (talk) 14:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry but I've given reasons why Chasetown shouldn't be included on umpteen occasions. First - recentism. An identical result when Bedlington beat Colchester who were five levels higher in 1998-9 is largely forgotten. Secondly and most crucially Chasetown is already mentioned in the appropriate section History of the FA Cup and I truly don't believe that a second round win over Port Vale is so notable that it needs to be mentioned twice. Thirdly it comes down to how we define giant killing and I view it to be beating a giant as if we're to include all wins by non-league clubs over level three clubs, the list becomes a bit pointless. Is my POV any more worthy than your POV? I readily accept that it isn't and given the multiple disagreements in sources, thatš why its gotta go. Valenciano (talk) 21:26, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Chasetown beating Port Vale to me isn't a giant-killing (though I agree it's a relative giant-killing to Port Vale). Chasetown beating Port Vale is a cup upset, and a very substantial one at that. Subtlely changing the article title, as suggested above, changes the goalposts, pardon the pun, a hell of a lot. Peanut4 (talk) 21:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

←Bizarre. A part-time amateur team beating a professional league club founded in 1876, five divisions above them isn't a giant killing act? Well that's it (all over again) - a subjective choice. Relativity, subjectivity, arbitrary criteria, that's what makes this whole thing wrong. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well it all depends on how you define the word 'Giant'. I don't know about you but when people ask me for a giant of English football, Vale aren;t the first club to spring to mind. If they'd been founded in 876 it wouldn't change that one iota. As I say Chasetown are already mentioned in the relative section, why should we duplicate a mention of a win over third level Port Vale but not mention arguably more notable results? The simple question Rambling man, is do you remember the equivalent result in 1999 when Bedlington beat Colchester? If the answer is no, then I rest my case. If the answer is yes, then weŗe still broadly in agreement about the subjectivity of the article. Valenciano (talk) 21:54, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I'm concerned, and I've said it before, the term "giant" in this context is relative. So Chasetown's giant (Port Vale) is Liverpool's minnow. Everything is relative, needs context and will always be dependent on someone's definition. Thus never NPOV, thus delete. BTW I'm the wrong person to ask about Col U since I'm an ITFC/Col U fan (if you can have such a thing) so yes I do! And that's yet another problem. All lists will be infiltrated by the "Oh, but what about X F.C. who once beat Y Rovers in the 2nd round in 1955?" This list can never be resolved satisfactorily. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:02, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)
I totally agree with you Valenciano, which is why I say it's a substantial upset. I just don't count Port Vale as a giant. But I also agree with TRM's synopsis. Our difference of opinions unfortunately, and I say unfortunately because I see this as a notable list, show how POV the whole list will always be under its current title. Peanut4 (talk) 22:03, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Peanut you and I have probably spent more time than anyone trying to keep these lists workable and I just think weŗe flogging a dead horse here. Rambling man, as a colchester fan you are forgiven :) Youre totally right anyway. The lists have been dogged from the word go by 'whataboutery.' Last season it was league one Forest beating Premiership Charlton. A straw poll from a predictions league I'm on had 13 people going for a Forest win, 12 for a Charlton win and four for a draw. Not even an upset nevermind a giant killing. No matter who we quote from, be it BBC, Sky, News of the World, theyļl never agree. As youļl agree, my POV and Original Research is no better than yours. Valenciano (talk) 22:13, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid we can't use BBC, Sky or NOTW as full reliable sources because none existed when the FA Cup started so the list will never be complete using those. Peanut4 (talk) 22:26, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The cup has also been around longer than the league (and certainly longer than a series of organised lower flights of it), so the early matches are always going to be a problem from that point of view. But there are histories of the FA Cup published out there - if one of them says that, say Cambridge University beating Royal Engineers 1-0 in the 1877 Quarter Finals was a major upset (which it was - RE had won the clash of these two sides 5-0 two seasons earlier, and had been in three of the first four finals), then if that source is a reputable souce it should be good enough. This strikes me as being a similar problem to that met with by Place names considered unusual - a page which was thoroughly and sadly gutted after AFD. Grutness...wha? 23:26, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Davewild (talk) 12:22, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled Ralph Macchio Project[edit]

Untitled Ralph Macchio Project (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

No indication of importance/significance. Appears to be about a TV show on a minor Cable TV channel. I would mark it for speedy, but its been around since June 2006. Lastly, talk page was created with "This show ain't coming on anymore so someone should delete the page." Jason McHuff 09:53, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: As per WP:CRYSTAL Andante1980 09:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Merge→Geography of Kerala—There is not necessarily consensus on how to do the merger, but there is consensus (with dissenting opinions) that the content should be merged as noted. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 20:57, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of kayals in India[edit]

List of kayals in India (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

kayal is a word that means a lake in the Malayalam language which is spoken mainly in one state of India. It is no different than a lake. A kayal is not an English word nor is used extensively in India to mean a lake. The info in the article can very well be merged with Geography of Kerala. ¿Amar៛Talk to me/My edits 09:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Um, I think you may be thinking of "loch", not "lac". In which case, have a look at List of lochs in Scotland. Kafziel Talk 07:39, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am thinking of lac, not loch. As you can see, List of lacs in Great Britain does not make any sense, since lac being a French word does not have anything to do with Great Britain. In a similar way, List of kayals in India makes no sense. The article better be List of lakes in India. The association of the word loch with Scotland is legendary and makes sense to have an article called List of lochs in Scotland. Not so with the word kayal, more than 90% of Indians will not even know that kayal means a lake. To add to this, Dictionary.com has no reference to kayal, indicating that it is not an English word. Hope this clarifies... -- ¿Amar៛Talk to me/My edits 08:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
List of kayals in India cannot be deleted after the information in it is merged because the article's history has to be kept in order to comply with the GFDL. The redirect allows the page history to be found. Bláthnaid 10:17, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Not exactly. According to this guideline, there are ways in which a Merge and delete can be done. I have shown above, why the article title does not make any sense and I do not see a compelling reason for it to be redirected to any other article. For the nth time, what is a kayal (in English) and why do we need an article with that word in the title? -- ¿Amar៛Talk to me/My edits 13:40, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We don't. A redirect is not an article. Kafziel Talk 19:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think we have a difference of opinion here. If this does not get clarified, I will take this up at WP:RfD for a consensus. To resolve this deadlock, I am for the time-being OK with Merge and redirect. Thanks -- ¿Amar៛Talk to me/My edits 05:13, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see what an RfD would clarify. Blathnaid is correct about the licensing issue, and the "guideline" you link to above isn't a guideline at all; it's just an essay, and it's only three weeks old at that. But even under the terms of that essay, the burden is upon you to demonstrate specifically how keeping the redirect is totally unacceptable. The "use English" reason doesn't quite hold up (despite your assertion on my talk page, "obi" and "enchilada" are not proper nouns). If you realize you were wrong on this issue, then the matter can drop. If not, you're not doing us any favors by agreeing "for the time being" (i.e., "until a later date when nobody is watching"). Kafziel Talk 08:35, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(unindent)Hello, the burden is on you to show that the word kayal makes any sense at all. You have said that you do not know a word in Malayalam but were knowledgeable enough to introduce that word in the article title!! I changed my opinion to merge and redirect since everyone agrees (including you and Blathnaid) that the article contents need to be merged to some article. The disagreement is on whether the original article should remain or not. Since you are not willing to agree that you made a mistake on that article name, I did not want to pursue the matter further here and take it to the correct forum. The right place to discuss about "redirects" is WP:RfD and hence I will pursue the matter there. I will inform you when I put it there, so that you can put in your comments. The use English does hold up according to this guideline. You were the one who introduced a word like kayal into the article title, when nobody was watching and without knowing anything about what that means. I am just trying to correct that mistake. Thanks -- ¿Amar៛Talk to me/My edits 08:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, there's no disagreement on whether the article should remain. Everyone (including me) has said the name should be changed. And the right place to discuss name changes is WP:RM. The only disagreement here appears to be whether or not I'm the devious mastermind of some secret conspiracy to introduce Malayalam words into the English language. I'm pretty sure I'm not. Kafziel Talk 09:13, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for letting me know that you do not agree with the name. All this time, I was thinking that you were interested in a "redirect" than in a "rename". And nobody is blaming you that you are involved in any conspiracy theory. Atleast, not me. Thanks -- ¿Amar៛Talk to me/My edits 09:29, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
From an admin standpoint, a redirect works the same as a rename. If we rename this "list of lakes in Kerala, India", this information will be moved to "list of lakes in Kerala, India" and "list of kayals in India" will become a redirect. There's no policy in place requiring that the original title be deleted, so saying "merge and redirect" is tantamount to saying "rename". If you can get Tintin and Utcursch to withdraw their "deletes" above, we can speedy this and I will move the article over the redirect at List of lakes in India (or you can move it to List of lakes in Kerala, India, if you prefer). Kafziel Talk 09:41, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep per consensus and added references (closed by non-admin) . RMHED (talk) 20:34, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Führer Headquarters[edit]

Führer Headquarters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Mis-named, list oriented, fuzzy topic

Please note the article has zero inline citations. Gwen Gale 09:34, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So add some if you feel the need. The article provides at least one authoritative reference and I see no reason to doubt its accuracy. I'm watching the page now as I'm interested in WW2 history and can protect it from vandals and axe-grinders. Colonel Warden 09:44, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Its lack of citations is only a symptom. The very name of this article is both WP:OR and an invitation to create a misleading information dump with no historical context. Gwen Gale 09:48, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not seeing it. The name seems to be a straightforward translation of the German term for the official HQs being built for Hitler and works for me in English. The article states that there was a list of 20 of these planned and so this nicely limits the scope-creep that you fear. Colonel Warden 09:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The scope creep (as you put it) is already evident in the article. Moreover, the Kehlsteinhaus, which is pictured in the article, was most definitely not a German military headquarters, it was a retreat above his house and he rarely even went there. Gwen Gale 10:01, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Kehlsteinhaus is associated with the Berghof and the two are listed together. It would be absurd to omit this complex from the article. If you don't like the exact presentation then you are free to edit it. WP:NOEFFORT is not a reason to delete and AFD is not cleanup. Your proposal seems an unnecessary overreaction to an editing dispute. Colonel Warden 10:12, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Kehlsteinhaus was never a military headquarters, nor was it built as one but the article represents it separately as a military headquarters. This could be fixed (as I've mentioned already above) but it's is a symptom of the article's deep conceptual flaws. Gwen Gale 10:14, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Like Adolf, I tire of this nest. :) My opinion stands. Colonel Warden 10:34, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There has not been a "fair amount of activity." The editor who created it six weeks ago hasn't touched it in five weeks. There has been no meaningful interest from other editors. The only edits by others have been a typo fix, a tag and the tag for this AfD. Gwen Gale 14:38, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1. Lack of citations - this can be fixed and I will do so.
2. Errors - where? what? Please describe the errors you claim are present.
3. Listings of locations which have nothing to do with the article topic. What? Que? Are you serious?
4. The title is meaningless - sorry, that's bs. The title and article scope describes the concept of FHQ:s which are historical facts which certainly has encyclopedic value. The FHQ:s were special, not just where "Hitler spent the night".
5. Original research/breach of WP policy - sorry, that's bs too. The article information is based on the references listed, and I have not personally invented anything. Furthermore, there are similar articles in the German and Polish Wikipedia here: Führerhauptquartier (German) and Führerhauptquartier (Polish).
6. Vague in concept - sorry, you're misinformed or ignorant. Consult history books, the references listed or the wikipedia links above.

If you're still concerned with contents, please constribute and help out with the article. My regards, --Dna-Dennis 14:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Calling my remarks "bs" is wholly unacceptable and does not speak helpfully for your edits. Gwen Gale 15:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, you have to live with it, since I found the claims to be bs. After all, Wikipolicy allows me to comment on opinions, and I chose to do so - there was no personal attack intended - don't take any offense. I have added 4 citations in 4 important places, and removed the "sources" tag, "OR" tag (since it's bs) and the cleanup tag, as I fail to see what cleanup is needed. But please challenge me on this if you feel like it. When I wrote the article I thought it through and researched it as thorough as possible - that's why I haven't added anything since then. As the article states there were about 14 (20 planned) headquarters, so no need to fear that the list will expand significantly in the future. My regards, --Dna-Dennis 15:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia policy does not allow you to characterize edits of others with an acronym for bullshit. Unhappily, this must end my conversation with you for now. Gwen Gale 15:59, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Davewild (talk) 12:26, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of India energy articles[edit]

List of India energy articles (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article is redundant and serves no purpose. The Category: Energy in India is exactly what the article is all about ¿Amar៛Talk to me/My edits 09:11, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep per arguments made by those supporting that it is not redundant to either category or another article. Davewild (talk) 12:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of rivers of India[edit]

List of rivers of India (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This is a redundant article. The information provided here can very well be merged into the article, Rivers of India. If it is a list of rivers that is needed, Category:Rivers of India is sufficient. ¿Amar៛Talk to me/My edits 09:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I dont see the need of two articles, one titled Rivers of India and the other titled List of rivers of India. If it is an alphabetical name list that is needed, there is a category already. If a detailed article is needed, Rivers of India is already present. We dont need duplicate articles, that eventually should contain the same thing. Hence the nom. -- ¿Amar៛Talk to me/My edits —Preceding comment was added at 09:36, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reply: I completely agree with you that a category will not be sufficiently informative of what List of rivers of India could contain. But we already have an article Rivers of India which essentially does the same thing. Why do we need the redundancy unless there is a compelling reason for doing so? Thanks -- ¿Amar៛Talk to me/My edits 11:49, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ah, fair point. :-) But isn't redirect better than outright deletion? Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • That thought did occur to me. However, I did not see a compelling reason for letting the article be redirected to Rivers of India. When the article 'X' is there, would you really need 'List of X' (with its history and associated space that it consumes) to be redirected to 'X'. Any wikilink or searches would be made on the term "rivers" and "India", and the List of rivers of India would not serve much purpose than by just being a redirect. -- ¿Amar៛Talk to me/My edits 16:23, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
2. Information: The list may be a valuable information source. This is particularly the case for a structured list. Examples would include lists organized chronologically, grouped by theme, or annotated lists. 3. Navigation: Lists can be used as a table of contents, or if the user is browsing without a specific research goal in mind, they would likely use the See also lists. If the user has a specific research goal in mind, and there is only one or two words that are used to describe the research topic, and they know exactly how to spell the word, they would probably use the search engine box. If the user has some general idea of what they are looking for but does not know the specific terminology, they would tend to use the lists of related topics (also called list of links to related articles).WP:LIST. Does the list need improvement? Then do so. Hmains 04:06, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:50, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Liza David[edit]

Liza David (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Actress has appeared in only one very minor role, nowhere close to WP:BIO standards for entertainers. COI seems evident, notability does not. shoeofdeath 07:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Davewild (talk) 12:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

George Danzer[edit]

George Danzer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable poker player. Had his 15 minutes of fame during last year's World Series of Poker, but that's about it. SmartGuy 05:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: In the future, please add new nominations to the top of the page. Thanks, Rjd0060 05:36, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
oops, sorry, did not mean to do that SmartGuy 06:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete --JForget 01:12, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Spin Force[edit]

Spin Force (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Pseudoscience. P4k 06:36, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep and renaming should be discussed. Davewild (talk) 13:25, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Published alternate histories[edit]

Published alternate histories (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

A trivial list of published alternate histories doesn't show much importance. Wikipedia isn't a directory. RobJ1981 06:14, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's called published to distinguish the books here from films etc. As for needing references, almost every book is a blue link so even now the reader can click on that to find more information, and references, about the novel in question. Nick mallory 11:30, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You make a good point. I still think the title is far too vague, and should give some criteria for inclusion, such as Notable published alternate histories (I know, that's terrible). The current name leaves the door open for any alternate history ever written, and that just won't do. I'll give the article another look; if I don't comment here again, the closer of this AfD can disregard my above deletion argument. faithless (speak) 23:29, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete due to lack of reliable sources, which make it impossible to verify notability. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:07, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Neoseeker[edit]

Neoseeker (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article is basically an ad for a website, and the only source for any information in it is the website itself. The article has been tagged for months with a request for sources, but none seem to be forthcoming. I can't find anything on Google or Google news indicating that this is a particularly notable site, and I don't see any evidence that it meets our inclusion criteria per WP:WEB. I suggest we delete it; please discuss. GTBacchus(talk) 05:57, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus to delete; consensus to rename—It appears there is a consensus to rename to something more easily understood. I will leave that renaming to a discussion on Talk:List of record labels starting with a non-letter. The main lack of consensus on deletion is between the use of lists vs. categories. Among those arguing for categorization two options emerge: putting everything into Category:Record labels vs. putting into categories such as Category:Record labels starting with A. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 21:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of record labels starting with a non-letter[edit]

List of record labels starting with a non-letter (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

An indiscriminate list of record labels. J-ſtanTalkContribs 04:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just wanted to say that I wasn't fully aware of the context of this list when I nominated it. I do think the information should be kept, just maybe in a category. J-ſtanTalkContribs 18:29, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete as per... yeah. What they said. --carelesshx talk 05:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can live with that. J-ſtanTalkContribs 18:56, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment So you'd have, for example Lugnuts Records, in the category Category:Record labels and then in the subcats Category:British record labels and Category:Alternative music record labels? Lugnuts 15:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd go along with the above comment. I think in a very early list there was some odd-ball entry starting with a non-letter, but renaming it to <<with a number>> sounds good to me. Lugnuts 08:23, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
See my note above. I wasn't quite sure of the context before nominating this. I thought it was an indiscriminate list, but I see that this was just following a pattern of other lists. The title was what confused me most. I would be in favor of a move to List of record labels 0-9, since they all start with numbers. J-ſtanTalkContribs 19:59, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the reply. So I'm absouletly clear - this should be moved to the new/standard name and not deleted? Lugnuts (talk) 08:23, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I believe it should be categorized under Category:Record labels 0-9 (or a variant thereof), and then delete this one, but if the AfD is closed as keep, it should definitely be moved. J-ſtanTalkContribs 22:31, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for clearing it up. I'd happily support the renaming of the page, but not the categorization, as explained above. Lugnuts (talk) 08:21, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy delete (CSD A7) by Redvers. I am merely closing this discussion; perhaps discuss with the deleting admin to restore and move (or go through DRV). --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 18:08, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Foley martin[edit]

Foley martin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Doesn't assert notability, seems to violate MYSPACE. Marlith T/C 05:12, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Per WP:HEY. Move the page after this closes. - Rjd0060 06:11, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:51, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

East Side, St. Paul, Minnesota[edit]

East Side, St. Paul, Minnesota (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This distinction is not notable. List of neighborhoods is unnecessary. Discussion not balanced. — Yavoh 04:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Actually the "West Side" is that portion of St. Paul west of the Mississippi River and the "Greater East Side" is one of many neighborhoods on the east side of the river. For those interested, see the map here:[32] Also, West St. Paul is an entirely different municipality and shouldn't be confused.--Appraiser 15:09, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was doh! Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:53, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of television programs in The Simpsons[edit]

List of television programs in The Simpsons (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Tell me I don't have to explain how incredibly non-notable this article is. SeizureDog 04:49, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Was that SPA tag really necessary?--WaltCip 22:23, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The Simpsons is indeed notable, but that doesn't automatically make every article on them notable as well. Read up on the notability policies. RobJ1981 (talk) 02:09, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:52, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ethan Gyles[edit]

Ethan Gyles (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Person does not appear to exist. None of the historical references included actual mention this person. Seems to be fabricated. Wikime25 04:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Secret account 02:35, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of humanitarian and peace organizations[edit]

List of humanitarian and peace organizations (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete a hopelessly undermaintained and confused list. First, "humanitarian" and "peace" is a close but quite different descriptors. Second, there are thousands of them around the world. Third, I see nothing in this list that cannot be covered by categories. Laudak 04:31, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Secret account 02:40, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Capt. Harrison Love[edit]

Capt. Harrison Love (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Mask of Zorro movie article. As such, this material is not appropriate for the encyclopedia, and should be deleted. Judgesurreal777 04:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Secret account 02:40, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Raphael Monterro[edit]

Raphael Monterro (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Mask of Zorro movie article. As such, this material is not appropriate for the encyclopedia, and should be deleted. Judgesurreal777 04:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete --JForget 01:14, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tim Rogers (journalist)[edit]

Tim Rogers (journalist) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Subject fails to meet the relevant notability guideline. HitotsuOne 04:02, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete- we don't need this existing for five more days. The consensus is clear, as are the facts: this is a somewhat amusing (especially in regards to the reference), but extremely obvious, hoax. -- Mike (Kicking222) 05:44, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hoverbarn[edit]

Hoverbarn (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article is clearly nonsense, event the image provided is computer generated. When google searched [33] it returns nothing related to what this user is talking about. This isn't quite applicable for speedy deletion, however it should at least be reviewed and debated. Eastonlee 03:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep, no arguments for deletion have been made, those arguing for keep have made policy based arguments for keeping. Whether any of these with fewer reliable sources should be merged can be considered elsewhere not requiring a deletion discussion. Davewild (talk) 13:48, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Original Chicken Sandwich[edit]

Original Chicken Sandwich (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
TenderCrisp (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
BK Chicken Fries (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
BK Chicken Tenders (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
BK Big Fish (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Croissan'Wich (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
The Angus burger (Burger King) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Big King (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
BK Stacker (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
BK Veggie (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
BK XXL (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Rodeo Cheeseburger (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
TenderGrill (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
BK Crown Jewels line (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
BK Baguette line (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Large, large amount of cruft. Wikipedia is not a sales catalog (or in this case a menu), and as such we do not need lengthy descriptions of every product on the Burger King menu: they are not independently notable, nor do they help establish the notability of Burger King, nor are any of them an important enough aspect of Burger King to warrant their own articles. Add to that the fact that most of these lack any reliable sources whatsoever, most suffer from peacock terms, and that there already exists an article, Burger King products, that can contain short descriptions of these menu items. - Chardish 03:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reasons for keep:
  1. These items are the major products or products that are unique to major global company, not every product they sell.
  2. WP:NOT - these articles are not a set of indiscriminate information, and they do not meet any of the ten general defining criteria set forth in WP:Not.
  3. They show how a company adapts when moving into new markets and address cultural differences between its home market and the areas it does business.
  4. The help show how a company responds to its competition by adapting existing lines of products or creating new ones.
  5. When sourced (I admit that not all have sources), the sources include major industry magazines (Nation's Restaurant News), major news outlets (AP, USA Today and NY Times) and sites that deal with nutritional and health news. All of the content is supported by multiple, independent sources
  6. I did not do any original research, all the data and information was found through searches made on Google. The information was sourced via the results. Searches included Burger King Islam, Burger King nutrition and Burger King Asia. When sourcing, I tried to avoid BK sites.
Additionally, they meet the four standards of notability as stated in WP:NOTE:
  1. There is significant coverage of the subject in the independent press;
  2. The sources are reliable;
  3. The sources are all secondary, or if primary, follow the WP:PSTS guides for primary sources;
  4. I generated none of the information, am not promoting the products, it is not structured as an ad (no peacock statements) and it is not a press release.
With the ongoing debate about obesity in Western nations, there has been signifigant media coverage of the items in the press to fulfill WP:Notability standards, and many have cited references in the articles. Also, many of these articles were created in response to growing size of the main article, Burger King products, using the WP:Summary style guidelines. Finally, if you could please list the peacock terms that you are claiming to exist, as I pretty much edited all peacock terms out of the main body these articles months ago to ensure that they all conformed with the WP:NPOV guidelines and appear to have missed some. - Jeremy (Jerem43 05:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC))[reply]
Comment. "WP:NOT - these articles are not a set of indiscriminate information, and they do not meet any of the ten general defining criteria set forth in WP:Not." from WP:NOT: "Wikipedia is not any of a very long list of other terrible ideas" such as a sales catalog; WP:INN, are you saying that every one of these products has independent press coverage? --Thinboy00 @52, i.e. 00:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Reply, whether it is over nutritional issues, new or unique products or because they are mentioned in reference for an cross-promotional advertising campaign; just about all of them have had some sort of press coverage. By this time tomorrow I should have at least four citations of secondary sources for each article from reliable places such as the New York Times, USAToday, AP, Reuters and even Variety, all currently have at least one as of now - Jeremy (Jerem43 02:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)), amended (06:23, 4 December 2007 (UTC))[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. --Oxymoron83 10:22, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

TriOptimum Corporation[edit]

TriOptimum Corporation (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Also nominating:

Unified National Nominate (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

No assertion of real-world notability. Single source provides only in-universe plot summary; no secondary sources to provide critical commentary/reaction. --EEMIV (talk) 22:21, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 03:39, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Secret account 02:41, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Crunchwrap Supreme[edit]

Crunchwrap Supreme (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Prod contested by anonymous IP without leaving a reason. Non-notable food item; being sold by a notable restaurant chain does not confer notability. No notability independent of Taco Bell and not a major enough part of Taco Bell to warrant its own article. Chardish 03:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Davewild (talk) 14:11, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shadowleggy[edit]

Shadowleggy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Notability - I can't find any independent, reliable sources about this person (her own website is not an independent source of information because she wrote it) greenrd 02:30, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Da Englisch nicht scheint zu arbeiten, ist unten ein Reposting einiger Aufstellungsorte, die das Thema des Artikels beziehen. [36]

[37]. [38].

A translation of above is, Since English does not seem to work, below is a reposting of several sites referencing the article’s subject.Shoessss |  Chat  03:55, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


The result was Delete --JForget 01:16, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A Time Imperfect[edit]

A Time Imperfect (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Article about non-notable band was recreated immediately after being Speedy Deleted for not asserting notability. Still fails WP:BAND as well as having WP:COI issues. DAJF 02:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


The result was Delete --JForget 01:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jerry Booth (technologist)[edit]

Jerry Booth (technologist) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Autobiography. Unsourced. There is some claim to notability, but any article should be created by someone without a conflict of interest. Delete. gadfium 02:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete—Unfortunately, the proposed merge target itself has been deleted. I am personally not a fan of the present wave of fiction-related deletions; however, in this case, there is not even the saving grace of being verifiable via cited reference. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:29, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bokusen'on[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Bokusen'on (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Fictional tree lacks real world notability, is not cited with secondary sources independent of the subject, and is solely plot summary Pilotbob 02:15, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The keep reasons didn't give a reason for keeping this article, AFD is not a vote Secret account 02:45, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Phyton[edit]

Phyton (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Not notable, lacks a real world context, plot information only, cannot be cited with secondary reliable sources independent of the subject. Pilotbob 02:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy delete per WP:CSD#A7, though I salute After Midnight for erring on the side of caution.--Kubigula (talk) 06:24, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Towy boat club[edit]

Towy boat club (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

No assertion of notability. After Midnight 0001 02:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • I will note that I thought about just speedying it myself, but as I had just deleted a plethora of images on the page, I wanted to err on the side of caution/fairness to the author in this case. --After Midnight 0001 02:24, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete all JForget 01:19, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shadow Yamato X series[edit]

Shadow Yamato X series (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Hoax, nonsense. This game does not exist, all pages are almost exactly the same, copied from Ape Escape series. This debate also includes, all other pages of this group, list in coming. -Carados 01:57, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of Shadow Yamato X Characters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Shadow Yamato X (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Shadow Yamato X: Feudal Combat (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Evil_Knight_Man_(Shadow_Yamato_X) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Evil_Yamato_Man_(Shadow_Yamato_X) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Turles Yamato (Shadow Yamato X) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Hemamotos Yamato (Shadow Yamato X) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Hemamotus Yamato (Shadow Yamato X) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
List of Virus and Robot Masters in Shadow Yamato X (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Hemamotos Yamato (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  • That was an accident, sorry. -Carados 01:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you, good sir. I was not sure on the proper way to mark multiple articles for deletion. Or, like, at all. -Carados 02:03, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can you help me get the three images, as seen below Mission 50 in Shadow Yamato X, into a Images for deletion?-Carados 02:17, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


The result was Delete --JForget 01:25, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For Lonely Lest the Wiser[edit]

For Lonely Lest the Wiser (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Sole release from Dr Manhattan, also here for consideration. Discussion page contains more debate than the parent article. Acroterion (talk) 01:16, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete --JForget 01:26, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dr Manhattan (band)[edit]

Dr Manhattan (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Contested speedy. Article fails WP:BAND - while they apparently have an album out (also tagged for AfD), the article claims their debut album will be out in March 2008. Acroterion (talk) 01:14, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep per WP:SNOW & as well-sourced now. SkierRMH (talk) 08:53, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Historical note, this was "AfD'd" once before Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/MSC Armonia (ship) with a result of keep. SkierRMH (talk) 09:17, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

MSC Armonia[edit]

MSC Armonia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This is a cruise ship, and... well, that's about it. It's a cruise ship. No indication that it has played a significant role in the history of cruise shipping, no indication that something newsworthy happened to or on this ship. All we know about this ship is that it exists. But there is not a single indication, after more than three years, that this ship is notable or encyclopedic. AecisBrievenbus 01:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Sandstein (talk) 14:09, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of minor Sailor Moon characters[edit]

List of minor Sailor Moon characters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Unnotable list that fails WP:FICT and is mostly WP:PLOT. Fancruft/trivia mostly. Oddly enough, unlike most minor character lists, this one actually does include a few significant characters, but there appears to be no List of characters in Sailor Moon, so an possible alternative to deletion would be a rename, cull out all the minor characters, and make it a list of major/significant characters instead. Collectonian 00:16, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think its obvious, and while its sheer length should be a sign of completion, it isn't. From the article talk page I see you are moving in even more characters from WikiMoon, the Sailor Moon wiki where such excessively detailed, in-universe info is good and appropriate. Why not leave it over there and make the appropriate link off to it from the appropriate page? What point/purpose is there in duplicating the information here when WikiMoon is the far better forum for it and it faces deletion here because it does NOT fit in with the Wikipedia guidelines and policies? Collectonian 18:48, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, not all of the characters mentioned on the talk page can be added; we know absolutely nothing about several of the really minor ones, so they probably will have to be left to WikiMoon. Many of the characters already discussed in the article, though, are only considered "minor" because there are so ridiculously many Sailor Senshi. In the first 10% of the season, for example, Naru is more or less a main character. In fact, I bet she figures in more episodes than Sailor Saturn does. The same goes for several of the others in the list, and for the really minor ones we've included, there are already plans about moving them around to other existing articles where their mention is more appropriate. (Also, while I'm thinking of it, I've been working on a proper list for ages and it's almost ready.) --Masamage 19:00, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment perhaps, then, a better title would be List of secondary Sailor Moon characters? —Quasirandom (talk) 20:31, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete, discounting Tourskin's WP:JUSTAVOTE. Sandstein (talk) 14:12, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

InuYasha yōkai list[edit]

InuYasha yōkai list (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Unnotable list of fancruft that fails WP:FICT and is mostly minute WP:PLOT details. Redundant as well, since any notable yokai that appear here are also already better covered in List of InuYasha characters. Collectonian 00:10, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Such minute detail belongs in a InuYasha fan site or wiki, or an anime wiki. It is not encyclopedic nor notable to include every last character, and this list just replicates data from the other two lists. Collectonian 02:31, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Stupid question: Why is it unencyclopedic to list the cast of a notable work? What is encyclopedic? —Quasirandom (talk) 01:10, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Bad faith nom in violaton of WP:POINT. Non-admin closure. NF24(radio me!) 13:42, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Menon[edit]

Menon (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

No reference, unvarifiable content. Covered in Nair article. A Long list of unreferenced unvarifiable listing of people.Vvmundakkal 10:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep per WP:SNOW. I had previously closed this discussion as a snowball keep after only five "keeps" but the nominator asked me to re-open it. More "keep" votes were placed since then, so I'm calling this a snowball keep. Non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer(Broken clamshellsOtter chirps) 23:12, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Amish school shooting[edit]

Amish school shooting (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Wikipedia does not post news stories, regardless of how many front pages it appears on. The case is proven by only one citation after the week of the shooting, which is dated six months ago. Will (talk) 18:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. John254 03:26, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Charles Carl Roberts[edit]

Charles Carl Roberts (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Wikipedia does not post biographies of people notable for only one event. The event in question does have a Wikipedia article, but that's articleworthiness is questioned Will (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein (talk) 14:14, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

X (System of a Down song)[edit]

X (System of a Down song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

No real informaion is availabe, and it isn't notable. DurinsBane87 19:39, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Cleanup still encouraged, of course. Sandstein (talk) 14:18, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Glossary of fan fiction terms[edit]

Glossary of fan fiction terms (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Glorified dictionary. Uncited and ORish for the past seventeen months. Will (talk) 19:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was part of the group that originally split this. I was not, however, the one who created the idea of the section, which already existed in another article. It was originally part of the main article for Fan fiction, and was split at the same time as the Legal Issues section, because both were taking up too much room in then-massive (and still really big) original article, and there was no other way to prevent them from taking up too much space in it without splitting. However, it is not entirely useless when taken for what it originally was before its not-wholly-perfect name change (more on that in a moment) - that is, as a subarticle of fan fiction that complements the original by filling in the gaps. Fan fiction is one of those things that happens to have attracted a community of massive size, which naturally almost immediately began gaining its own set of jargon that is in some cases (such as Mary Sue, which already has its own currently B Class article) is really strange to newcomers. Many of these terms, such as Mary Sue, Canon (fiction), and Slash fiction, embody notable concepts that have been the subject of serious academic and literary commentary and themselves already have articles on this encyclopedia, sometimes B class or better as is the case with Mary Sue. However, simply including the terms in separate articles without interconnecting them makes it much more difficult for people who are trying to get an overview of fan fiction-related terminology to actually get it, as it involves tracking down and opening countless articles, which may or may not be categorized in such a way as to make their relationship to fan fiction clear. It is my belief that there is a solution here, though.
It is NOT unsalvageable, just even difficult to salvage. If we renamed it to "list of fan fiction terms and concepts" or something very similar, and retained it merely as a convenient common list of terms which are notable enough to retain their own Wikipedia articles or which there are actual sources to support their notability, then it's perfectly salvageable, and hell, I'll even volunteer to do it, if you'll give me a couple of weeks (I have a couple of papers due this week, but after that I'm a lot freer). How does that sound? Runa27 00:10, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I also don't think it violates the spirit or intent of WP:NOT#DICT, either, as per the way the policy's worded, since the proposed cleanup involves merely making it a more convenient way to find the important (i.e. notable) terms intimately related to the main subject from which this subarticle is meant to cover, not just provide a list of words. I'm pretty sure that in this case, WP:NOT#DICT does not apply, other than to tell us what we shouldn't allow the article to remain as (which is of course, still a good application!). After all, WP:IGNORE is meant to cover just such subtle occasions as this, where the line between "dictionary-like slang list" and "subarticle that allows the reader to get an overview of an aspect of its main article's subject with connections to a number of existing articles that might otherwise be difficult to find in a given context" becomes an important issue, but an equally important distinction to make. While I can certainly understand the NOT#DICT-related concerns, in this case, I'd argue this thing is closer to a character list for a long-running TV or book series than a "dictionary", in that it includes encyclopedic content that is for many useful, notable in the context of what it is meant to help cover, and conveniently organized for the reader... but would just add a bit too much visible length to the original article for the purposes of readability for those new to the subject (if you'd tried to read the older versions of fan fiction, you'd understand what I mean by "too much visible length". There's a reason we have suggested lengths for articles after which it's usually suggested that we break some sections off into subarticles, and fan fiction was a prime example). Breaking it down into subarticles on this kind of subject - about which there is massive amounts of information even when we do manage to cut out the non-notable crud - is extremely useful.
In other words, with due and earnest respect to WP:NOT#DICT, I would say this falls quite nicely under other policies that would allow for the cleaned-up version of this article, and does not even quite fit under even the second, "slang list" aspect of WP:NOT#DICT. If you don't believe me, I urge you to read WP:WIARM and consider both the purpose and function the future, cleaned up version of this article would serve in the context of its parent article: that is, to elaborate on a unique aspect of the main subject, providing a general, basic overview of said aspect which branches out into many sub-concepts which are considered independently notable, and which exist in many separate articles. In this case, the "aspect" is a combination of not just "slang terms", but also of notable subgenres, tropes and literary terms (such as Mary Sue, Canon and fanon, Slash fiction and Alternative universe, just to name a few) which have a uniquely strong fan fiction connection, or exist only in the genre of fan fiction. I'd like to point out at this point that the original section before it was moved from fan fiction also covered notable subgenres, which is indisputably notable in the context of the fan fiction article which parented this one, and which are currently absent from said parent article because - as you'll recall, I hope - this is a subarticle of fan fiction, so it is assumed that those wishing to know about that aspect of the subject can simply click that link to access an overview of them. I'd also like to point out that the Mary Sue article (to use one example) is best for explaining the concept of the Mary Sue to those readers who are actually looking for more information on the concept of the Mary Sue - not somebody who wants a simple, general overview of notable fan fiction terms and genres, for whom a one or two sentence description of the concept may well suffice. For someone wanting an overview of fan fiction terms, hunting down and wading through that many articles just to get something that they don't necessarily want every last detail on, is daunting and ridiculously inconvenient compared to simply providing a subarticle explaining the basics and providing a convenient jumping-off-point to other articles, should they want more information on any given one of the genres or such.
Again, in context I think this thing is both salvageable, and worth salvaging, and am willing to work with other editors on doing just that. I think one of the first steps is to make its status as a subarticle clearer, in addition to taking a machete to the OR and non-notable terms. I'll do that, the first chance I get. In the meantime, I've yanked a lot of the more dubious terms and misplaced terms from at least one or two sections, along with trimming to remove OR content and increase NPOV, along with tagging a lot of others for citation (ones I know are relatively notable at least, and thus entirely likely that there is a good source or three to back up their being featured in the article somewhere, but which do not apparently have their own separate articles and which DO naturally need cites if they're to stay). I encourage other editors to do the same, as well as to provide good cites for some of the article's content where they can. I'll probably have to stop editing really soon in order to finish work on a couple of papers, so I'd appreciate other editors chipping in on this. ^_^ Runa27 (talk) 19:24, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • In trying to wade through this enormous block of text, one point that leaps out is the comparison to a fictional character list. That is not a valid comparison. Words are not fictional characters. Glossaries are not character lists. Otto4711 (talk) 13:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, it's several blocks of text. :P I'll space it better from now on, how's that sound? In seriousness, though... with all due respect, I must point out that this is what you apparently get for responding to something you've pretty much admitted you've skimmed. I won't cry "straw man", because I don't think it was intentional on your part at all and will definitely Assume Good Faith on this, but I feel the need to correct you on this one as you've apparently misunderstood and certainly misrepresented my meaning. The salient points (caps and bold text intended only for emphasis):
1.) You have misconstrued my comparison to a character list, by a lot actually. My comparison was phrased as it being "closer to" a character list "than" a dictionary word list, and NOT as a direct comparison, the latter being what you seem to have interpreted it as. This loose comparison was primarily to point out that this article is a subarticle that was never intended to be contextually separate from its parent article, and was instead spun off in a similar manner as the Legal Issues With Fan Fiction section and for mostly the same reasons: it was generally considered useful and appropriate to have in the context of the main encyclopedia article, but too long to NOT spin into a subarticle, given the massive size of the parent. You'll find this spinning off practice is common on Wikipedia, for the very reason that it makes articles better-organized and easier to load and read, and provides slightly less strain on our servers by reducing the main article's file size.
2.) People keep referring to this as a "word list" or "dictionary" and so on, and THIS IS SLIGHTLY MISLEADING. Yes, some of the content ended up somewhat along these lines over time (for which I apologize; I haven't been on WP as much as I would have liked), and the introduction misleadingly referred to "slang and jargon" (which is my fault, for which I apologize and which is something I'm fixing as we speak), but it was originally intended ONLY to provide an overview of the NOTABLE terms associated with fan fiction, along with NOTABLE SUBGENRES, to provide a more convenient way for readers to find them... overview + jumping-off point, if you will. In fact, the sub-genres section of the original article was actually PART of this section before it was ever split, and currently consists of a link to this article. Removing this article in its entirety (as opposed to severely trimming, cleaning up, renaming, reorganizing, merging, etc.) therefore removes all current reference in the main article to ANY SUBGENRES of the genre, which is BAD, since it would end up meaning the complete removal of an important aspect of the article, akin to removing references of subgenre divisions from the pages for science fiction, fantasy, romance, mystery, and so on.
I will rather emphatically suggest that this should have been a trim-and-merge request, or a rename or cleanup, etc., as opposed to deletion nom... though I suspect it would still, even if restricted to a list of subgenres, be long enough for some to insist on splitting it, anything's better than messing up the subgenre coverage in the parent article (quick and important note: Although there are plenty of fan fiction articles regarding unique subgenres and the like, there is no "Fan fiction terminology" subcategory in the cat tree, nor is there a subcategory for subgenres of fan fiction; there is only a very general "Fan fiction" cat, which while somewhat helpful, is not necessarily the best way of going about it). Runa27 (talk) 18:44, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete --JForget 01:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Honkey rap[edit]

Honkey rap (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Hoax-like orphaned stubby article Will (talk) 19:57, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.