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The result was keep. Sandstein (talk) 19:31, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ten Commandments for Drivers[edit]

Ten Commandments for Drivers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Assisting nominator with technical aspects; rationale for deletion to be added here. MastCell Talk 17:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

delete it- I am the nominator, and I am not surprised this is the 3rd time around. Simply put, the page does not appear to be either notable or even capable of being so. As the second nominator noted: "This list is a one-time press release, and probably fails the unofficial ten-year test of notability". That's really all it is, a one off press release. If we had a page for every insignificant press release the vatican made, we'd have thousands of such pages at least.JJJ999 (talk) 02:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'd add that the previous AfD was probably wrongly decided, it was 2-1 in favour of deletion, and only escapes through a ridiculously generous admin closure of no consensus.JJJ999 (talk) 03:04, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
2–1 does sound to me like a "no consensus". If it were 20–10, I might say otherwise. Michael Hardy (talk) 23:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It was not "2-1" literally, it was something like 10-5, I can't remember from memory.JJJ999 (talk) 13:48, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And just to clarify things a little: the first AfD was disruptive; and the second was instituted when the article looked like this. --Paularblaster (talk) 22:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

~

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The result was speedy deleted by Rettetast (talk · contribs) per WP:CSD#G12, blatant copyright infringement. AecisBrievenbus 23:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thomas O'Grady[edit]

Thomas O'Grady (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

O'Grady is the mayor of a small town, and is a candidate to be nominated for Ohio's 10th congressional district. Nothing spectacular yet. Also, this article reads like a political ad, in which the subject has "a strong history of community service", is "committed to government becoming more efficient", "has been tireless in his efforts to serve the residents of North Olmsted, and will continue to work to improve the conditions for all in Northeast Ohio", etcetera. AecisBrievenbus 23:53, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Coredesat 02:59, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Crystal Rod (film)[edit]

The Crystal Rod (film) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete. Fails at WP:NOTE. There is no source as well that verifies its notability. So, it fails at verifiability as well. -- Niaz(Talk • Contribs) 23:41, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I heard this user (who have created this article) doesn't take it easily when he finds any of his article gets tagged for AfD and likes to show his anger in the form of vandalism at respective user's page (who tagged). I would like to draw his attention to the fact that we are all here for the betterment of Wikipedia and we don't have any personal intention to attack you. You may notice that everyone voted for the deletion of your article which eventually proves that it really lacks at some WP policies. Hope you will be more tolerant in future and wishing you a nice Wikipedia journey. Cheers. -- Niaz(Talk • Contribs) 14:23, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: There was a posting the other day of a novel by this title. Also unreferenced and posted by the author. Writing style, content, etc., indicate this is the same person. Bagheera (talk) 23:53, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Speedy delete per A7, specifically, non notable band. This was deleted twice before by speedy criteria. Keeper | 76 23:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dobby & The House Elves[edit]

Dobby & The House Elves (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete. It's a vanity article on some non-notable people. All the references are used from myspace. It's a clear case of violating WP:NOTE. -- Niaz(Talk • Contribs) 23:27, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Coredesat 02:59, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Squidgies[edit]

Squidgies (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete as per non-notable activity related to catching fish! -- Niaz(Talk • Contribs) 23:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It also violates WP:OR as it seems that it is a clear case of original research. -- Niaz(Talk • Contribs) 23:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have added additional references from easily accessible sources on the web to show that the data included is indeed verifiable, and I reiterate there is no original research included. I guess I'll start looking at adding scientific references if it helps others to understanding the current issues relating to fishing lure development, technology creep and fisheries managementUser: DigsFish. —Preceding comment was added at 00:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was speedy deleted per WP:CSD#G11: "Pages which exclusively promote some entity and which would need to be fundamentally rewritten to become encyclopedic.". This does not preclude a neutral editor writing a neutral, third-party-sourced article on the subject. Sandstein (talk) 19:37, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Blueprint for American Prosperity[edit]

Blueprint for American Prosperity (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete as per WP:OR -- Niaz(Talk • Contribs) 23:19, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep The information provided is accurate and by no means false. The citations used send the reader to credible sources. I am unclear as to why this would be deleted- can you explain the sentiment? The Blueprint Program was released to the public in November. If anything a Wiki contributor should have already created this page. Alexbrookings 11:55, 29 January 2008
    • Delete First paragraph is a copyvio of [1]. the rest certainly reads like a copyvio of other things on their site or published by them. The comment above seems to say they added it themselves after discovering that nobody with a lack of COI had added it for them--and, if you look in the contrib history, alexbrookings seems to have done just that. If it is notable, someone will write a proper article. DGG (talk) 21:17, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • comment The accuracy of your information is not what is being questioned, it is the notability of the subject matter. All the references you provided are from the Brookings Institute itself, not from secondary sources as required by Wikipedia's notability guidlines. Beeblbrox (talk) 18:45, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was delete. Coredesat 03:00, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Medical management company[edit]

    Medical management company (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Advertising Qaz (talk) 22:36, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete both. Coredesat 03:02, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Nondance Records[edit]

    Nondance Records (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
    Ether Switch (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Non-notable label. Speedy denied due to apparently notable band Ether Switch but band isn't really notable either. Speedy on Ether Switch was denied only because it was the founder of Nondance Record. So the only claim either has to notability is that the other one is notable, but in reality neither is notable. Sbowers3 (talk) 22:36, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Speedy Delete, CSD G2 by Malinaccier, non-admin close. Redfarmer (talk) 00:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Five Clicks To Jesus[edit]

    Five Clicks To Jesus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    I was going to CSD:G1 this, but I desided it wouldn't be fair for only 1 other person to see it first... ~Ferdia O'Brien (T)/(C) 22:27, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    (OOps, edit conflict already deleted) Dlohcierekim 00:34, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was Redirect to Drew Peterson Keeper | 76 21:57, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Stacy Ann Peterson[edit]

    Stacy Ann Peterson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Subject is not notable and is only known for one event. There are a few sources, but it is only a news story of her disappearance. There is a tag saying that it is partially a duplicate of Drew Peterson, which is is, and also a merge tag there, but I find this unnecessary. Also only three pages have links here, two of which are only lists and the third the link above. Reywas92Talk 22:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was delete. Addhoc (talk) 19:21, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Stephen Verges[edit]

    Stephen Verges (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    I am not sure what is to be done with this article. It seems that this is about a painter who was once covered by the Baltimore Sun. Most of the "references" are either broken links, links to blogs, mirrors of that single story, or mysterious links (like a page about weather). All in all, and having googled him, he does not strike me as notable. Goochelaar (talk) 21:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete.   jj137 (talk) 01:16, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    The awkward turtle[edit]

    The awkward turtle (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Non-notable hand gesture, no sources to show any notability. Prod removed by anon, bringing to AfD per procedure. Wildthing61476 (talk) 21:41, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    comment If someone could produce at least one reference to establish notability, keep. Otherwise it's a clear-cut case of original research.Beeblbrox (talk) 00:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. Coredesat 03:04, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Deus Ex Machina (The Matrix)[edit]

    Deus Ex Machina (The Matrix) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article is an in-universe plot repetition with very limited notability, and is already covered by the Matrix Revolutions movie articles plot section. The one unreferenced "fact" could easily be a part of the Development section of the Revolutions article, and there is no need for this article. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was keep. --Bongwarrior (talk) 10:57, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Hotwiring[edit]

    Hotwiring (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article not only contains "how to" instructions (a violation of Wikipedia policy), but describes how to commit a serious crime. Simply editing the article and removing it would leave it in the archives for others to view. This article should be deleted and rewritten without these instructions. Hellno2 (talk) 21:33, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    In this case, the issue is not about something that is inappropiate for children, but information that can be used to commit a felony. Had someone written on Wikipedia how to blow up a building using common household items, the feds would be raising hell to have the information removed, even from the archive, so it not be accessible to the public.
    As for the argument that not all hotwiring is illegal: Breaking into one's own house is not illegal either. But most of the time, when breaking and entry occurs, it is a criminal act. So we would not want that information posted here. The same is true with hotwiring.Hellno2 (talk) 18:05, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Obviously an article on "How to make a fertilizer bomb" would be inappropriate for Wikipedia, but that doesn't mean we don't mention it in the appropriate article. And the reason we mention it is that it's notable. It's the same case here; hotwiring is a notable concept, and so it derserves a place on wiki. If you feel there are inappropriately detailed instructions, be bold and fix it. As I said, articles don't get deleted when they're fixable and contain useful material. Someguy1221 (talk) 21:58, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Answer: Only oversights can selectively remove versions of an article from its history, and this is normally only invoked to hide information that could be used to indentify or contact an individual off-wiki. In all other cases, it is generally considered that the need for transparency rules. However, oversight may also be invoked in exceptional circumstances, such as Wikipedia is being dragged through the mud over it. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:01, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Keep - Articles like these are notable and not beyond saving. Although they walk a fine line to keep edit wars from happening (eg PIT maneuver, edit war free for over 6months ) Exit2DOS2000TC 04:48, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Vala M (talk) 06:11, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. Coredesat 03:05, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    IAO131[edit]

    IAO131 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Appears to be non-notable person. Only sources are blogs and self-published. Recreation of apparently speedy-deleted material. Recommend Delete. Dchall1 (talk) 21:28, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    This article has similar significance as the pages of Lon DuQuette, Allen H. Greenfield, Richard Kaczynski, and Nema (occultist): they are all notable figures in the field of occultism; they are also all notable figures in the field of Thelema, Aleister Crowley's religious philosophy. Sections were removed that dealt less with area of expertise. His main contribution is a new Journal dedicated to an academic and non partisan stance of Modern Thelema - perhaps an article on this Journal would be more in store than one on its creator? Psionicpigeon (talk) 23:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    If the person is notable, demonstrate it by e.g. providing citations where his work has been reviewed in a major publication. Similarly, if the journal you refer to is notable then it should be easy to find citations of it in scholarly publications. If not, it doesn't belong on Wikipedia. --Thiebes (talk) 23:13, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was speedy delete per WP:SPAM. I agree with Goochelaar, nice work. Keeper | 76 22:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Glacier capital fund[edit]

    Glacier capital fund (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Speedy tag removed by author. No assertion of notability. No reliable, verifiable, and independent sources. No sources at all. DarkAudit (talk) 21:22, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was delete. Coredesat 03:06, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    How Typical[edit]

    How Typical (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Non-notable column that fails at WP:NOTE. -- Niaz(Talk • Contribs) 21:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Speedy delete G11/Obvious Spam. CSD tag was improperly removed by author. Renesis (talk) 21:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    National Retail Brokers Network[edit]

    AfDs for this article:
      National Retail Brokers Network (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Speedy for spam removed. Still reads like an ad. No sources to show that this company is in fact notable. DarkAudit (talk) 20:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was delete. Coredesat 03:06, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Digitag[edit]

      Digitag (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Non notable neoglism. Prod removed by author without comment. I also declined a speedy of it having no context- it does have context, it just doesn't deserve an article. J Milburn (talk) 20:43, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was speedy-deleted: non-notable band. DMacks (talk) 22:07, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Vintage Rock Group[edit]

      Vintage Rock Group (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Incomplete nomination by a new user. On the talk page, they say:

      Vintage_Rock_Group is non-notable.

      1. Group has no singles on any charts in any country.
      2. Group has no albums produced by major labels or producers.
      3. Group has no members of notable former or current bands.
      4. Group has no significant association with notable producers.
      5. Group has no record of national or international tour.
      6. Group has not toured with notable bands.
      7. Group has no regular airplay in a major market.
      8. Group has no gold records
      9. Group has not won or been nominated for a major music award.
      10. Group has not won or placed in a major music competition.
      11. Group has no record of its work having been used in a major motion picture or television show.
      12. Group has not been the subject of a half hour or longer broadcast across a national radio or TV network.

      MediaMike (talk) 08:52, 26 January 2008 (UTC)MediaMike[reply]

      Procedural nomination. No opinion is being expressed by me. ➔ REDVEЯS with my innocent hand on my heart 20:40, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was Nomination withdrawn with no argument made for deletion. Non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters(Broken clamshellsOtter chirps) 21:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Hadley Learning Community[edit]

      Hadley Learning Community (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Speedy removed without comment. This page appears to be some schoolkid playing around on wikipedia. DarkAudit (talk) 20:33, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Additional Another editor has picked up the task since the original creation of the article. Will watch to see where it goes from here. DarkAudit (talk) 20:43, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was Keep. --VS talk 07:06, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Buffy the Vampire Slayer (BFI TV Classics S.)[edit]

      Buffy the Vampire Slayer (BFI TV Classics S.) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non-notable book; possibly the most obscure academic work ever published on the Buffyverse; queried notability on January 3 and nobody has made any case for it. Orange Mike | Talk 20:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      The "S." means "Series", but if this is kept I'd suggest moving it to Buffy the Vampire Slayer (BFI TV Classics). Personally, I'd be more inclined to a merge/redirect to Buffy studies. I can't see that it's urgently required as a stand-alone article (any more than articles on each volume in the Cliffs Notes or Fontana History series - Penguin Classics would be another kettle of fish), but it's not something that I strongly feel should be deleted. My remarks above were simply to give a fuller picture of the status of the volume and series (i.e. a lot less obscure from my perspective than from yours). To answer your question, though: the only reviews I can find right now, and unfortunately without being able to access either, are Mark Sinker, in Sight & Sound 16:3 (2006), p. 94 (which I reckon is morally independent of the subject, even though it too is published by BFI); and Boyd Tonkin, in The Independent, December 23, 2005. I's not clear whether Alison Peirse, “The Lure of the Vampire: Gender, Fiction and Fandom from Bram Stoker to Buffy”, Screen 48:1 (2007), pp. 137-140, is a review essay or just an essay that cites Billson (I can't access that text either). Loads tuns up on Billson's book on The Thing (for the BFI Modern Classics series), but that's been accumulating comment for close to ten years. --Paularblaster (talk) 21:24, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      query: is simply having been reviewed enough to satisfy Wikipedia:Notability (books)? I assumed it was more like: people have published essays and articles addressing the books themes or method; almost any academic book could easily have up to half a dozen reviews. [Editing to add:] there's an example of a run-of-the-mill academic text getting comparable review coverage here. --Paularblaster (talk) 23:14, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was delete. Now, about that cake... Coredesat 03:07, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Adam Hutchison[edit]

      Adam Hutchison (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Probable hoax or wishful thinking. Version of article when prodded claims he won a "Young Scientist of the Year" award, which isn't referenced and can't be confirmed with a gsearch. Prod is now contested, award info removed, but search for this name + physics still doesn't come up with anything showing notability. Fabrictramp (talk) 20:19, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Keep. Although the 'deletes' technically outnumber the 'keeps', the arguments towards keeping this particular article outweigh the deletes. Keeper | 76 22:21, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Katran (Myst)[edit]

      Katran (Myst) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      This is a character that does not have real world information to establish notability. It is currently covered within relevant articles, and there is no current assertion for improvement. TTN (talk) 20:16, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Delete. --VS talk 07:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      List of CEP vendors[edit]

      List of CEP vendors (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Article fails WP:NOT#INTERNET and WP:NOT#REPOSITORY Delete Hu12 (talk) 20:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      I was the author of this list, as suggested in the CEP talk page, and following the example of the ERP and RDBMS entries (which are equivalent).

      Can you explain your policy suggestions? Isvana (talk) 22:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS -- please link to where another list of CEP vendors exists? Otherwise surely this policy is invalid. Thankyou. Isvana (talk) 08:28, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Hu12, I've noticed in the past that you tend to point out specific points in policy, but you don't explain why the points are relevant in particular cases. This can sometimes lead to situations where I'm not sure what your point is. I've argued against WP:NOT#INTERNET and WP:NOT#REPOSITORY being reasons to exclude this list. If you disagree, please give reasons why. Bardcom (talk) 11:33, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • It's a little disingenuous to merely point to WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS as a reason to ignore the point that other similar lists exist. The purpose of this guideline is to prevent people from pointing to perhaps one similar article as justification for another. In this case, your reference to WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not justified on the grounds I was pointing out that there are hundreds of vendor lists. Question - are you arguing against the *concept* of a List of CEP vendors, or against the *merit* of a List of CEP vendors? Bardcom (talk) 11:33, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think you both misunderstand.
      1. Isvana stated ..."Compare with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ERP_vendors and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_object-relational_database_management_systems - what is different about these?"
      2. you stated... "It is in line with existing lists, for example List of IT Service Management vendors and List of ERP vendors as pointed out earlier - for more lists, check out the Category:Lists_of_companies_by_industry for example."
      This AFD is about List of CEP vendors, not any other article. Which WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, is an Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. A common argument used against the deletion of certain articles is that other articles similar to the one in question exist. The presence of similar articles does not validate the existence of List of CEP vendors. You arguments will carry more weight if they are couched in the notability guidelines --Hu12 (talk) 13:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Hu12, thank you for elaborating on your reasons for pointing out WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. I am not pointing to one or two other lists as justification for this list. The existence of the List of lists demonstrates that the practice is commonplace and acceptable. The reason for the existence of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is to prevent someone pointing to one or two other similar articles. IMHO it is not applicable to use this argument when someone points out that there are several hundred similar articles.... Bardcom (talk) 23:26, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • OK. I've added a suggestion on Talk:List_of_CEP_vendors#Qualification_for_Inclusion--Hu12 (talk) 23:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      It's interesting that you point to Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions, when your own contributions to this debate could rightly be found guilty of Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions#Just a policy or guideline. -- RoninBK T C 16:40, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Hu12, can you explain why you think List of CEP vendors contravenes WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS ? For sure, other technology lists of vendors don't justify this page, but you haven't justified removing it. Removing it would surely contravene WP:YESPOV - providing a full list of suppliers is a neutral way of defining suppliers, and the fact the suppliers exist are salient facts (see WP:ASF ).Isvana (talk) 19:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Roninbk - excellent point; however (a) see the talk page on Complex Event Processing where this has been tried and failed in the past, and (b) the other computer technologies seem to follow this pattern of a separate page for listing appropriate vendors. I think most readers would be happy with either approach.Isvana (talk) 19:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think you'll find that including vendor links violates WP:EL and WP:NPOV Bardcom (talk) 23:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • ... although of course you could argue that excluding vendor names / refusing to recognise that vendors exist for this area violates WP:NPOV too (ie bias against vendors, implies only an academic topic, etc) - this page List of CEP vendors at least redresses this a little! Isvana (talk) 20:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I disagree. If you like, simply put in a statement to say that commercial software is available from a list of vendors. The external links to articles and the complexevents website will point them in the right direction. I don't understand the reluctance to mention the early academic projects as it's an important source of reference and background reading for anyone wanting to understand the underlying principals. Same reason for referencing David Luckham's book - it's too important a reference to exclude. The article exists to provide someone with a sane, reasonable, balanced, and neutral information on what CEP is. The academic projects are merely for those wishing to dive in at a deeper level to understand why it's notable. References to vendor websites fail this test - they are not educational, they are commercial. A list of CEP vendors is different, as a reader would only read this article in order to learn about vendors, products, specialization (if any), geography, etc. Bardcom (talk) 21:15, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Bardcom: I was going to discuss your arguments but (a) that should go into the talk discussion on the CEP page and (b) I only disagree on one point (why is it not an indication of "bias" for it to be "fair" to name academic projects yet "not valid" to mention commercial projects or products - my argument is that whatever reason there is for listing academic projects probably exists for listing non-academic projects ... - but then apart from this reference list I can't necessarily see why any vendor should be mentioned, so the argument is probably moot anyway).Isvana (talk) 23:10, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • #3 "Wikipedia articles should not exist only to describe the nature, appearance or services a website offers"
      List of CEP vendors exists to only to describe the services and products the Vendor offers[4].--Hu12 (talk) 00:19, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Not completely the full picture. The list primarily exists to provide a quick comparison of differences between vendors. At the moment, the only differentation is whether it's Open Source or not, but this will grow and become more descriptive over time. It does contain links, but the article would be equally valid without the links. We want to include the links as a qualification mechanism.... Bardcom (talk) 18:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Note the title of this page is "List of CEP Vendors" NOT "List of CEP Vendor websites". The inclusion of web sites / URLs is sendondary to the list. Any suggestion or argument to remove the URLs should be made in the talk page viz is not a valid reason for AfD (IMHO) Isvana (talk) 20:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • #1 "...Mere collections of external links or Internet directories."
      List of CEP vendors exists as a repository of external links to vendors' products[5].--Hu12 (talk) 00:19, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Again this is not the purpose of the article. See point made above. Bardcom (talk) 18:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Sorry but a table of vendors is not the same as "Mere collections of external links or Internet directories". Here is a quick test (also mentioned in the article talk page): Remove the URLs (which are only there as references anyway). This is still a list of CEP vendors! Ergo, this is not an argument to remove this page (it *may* be an argument to alter it). Isvana (talk) 20:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thank you for your contribution to this decision making process.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Bardcom (talkcontribs) 18:56, 30 January 2008
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      The result was Delete, no independent sources establish notability of the subject. Tim Vickers (talk) 03:53, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Bristo Camino[edit]

      Bristo Camino (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      This is a non-notable fictional town, it's only existence in the film Hostage. The only source for info on the town is the movie itself. This specific location is not a notable part of the movie. The page should be removed per WP:Notability. - Gwynand (talk) 19:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was Speedy delete as vandalism, third article today by new user that is unverified and wishful thinking at best. . Keeper | 76 21:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb (Assembly Edition)[edit]

      How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb (Assembly Edition) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Suspected hoax; no references provided, nor could any be found after a Google search. Same editor also created Blindness (U2 Album) and Annhilation tour, both of which were speedily deleted earlier for being patent nonsense. –Dream out loud (talk) 19:48, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delete - an obvious hoax, no sources online, and nothing on U2.com where the majority of this is supposed to have come from. MelicansMatkin (talk) 20:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was delete. --Coredesat 03:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Kenophobia[edit]

      Kenophobia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Delete contested prod; has been copied to wiktionary and is nothing more than a WP:DICDEF. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:47, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete and redirect to Nowra, New South Wales. Coredesat 03:11, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Nowra Christian School[edit]

      Nowra Christian School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non-notable school. No assertion of notability has been made, nor have any sources been provided that could support any claim of notability. Note: The school is already included in the article on Nowra, New South Wales Mattinbgn\talk 19:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • Comment If this "consensus" that schools are inherently notable came as a result of AfD discussions, then the only way to show that there is in fact no consensus is to continue to bring articles on schools that do not meet WP:N to AfD. It is a circular argument to insist that all schools are notable and should be kept for that reason and then use the fact that they are kept to support the concept of the inherent notability of schools. I still have not seen a decent argument for the proposition that schools are inherently notable and the meme of inherent notability has no backing other than the opinion of a group of editors. If sources can be found, then someone should demonstrate that fact by finding them. WP:V still applies to schools and we should insist on reliable independent sources for articles. If they are not provided, then the articles should be removed. -- Mattinbgn\talk 23:16, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was no consensus to delete, default to keep. I'd like to note that the frequently-cited WP:NOT#STATS is not, by itself, a reason to delete this article. The rule prohibits "long and sprawling lists of statistics" because they "reduce the readability and neatness of our articles", but allows "using infoboxes or tables to enhance the readability of lengthy data lists." No-one has argued that this article is unreadable or confusing, so WP:NOT#STATS would not seem to apply. Sandstein (talk) 12:01, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      List of films that most frequently use the word "fuck"[edit]

      List of films that most frequently use the word "fuck" (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Completely unencyclopedic content. This belongs on uncyclopedia, not here. Its been nominated several times before, the links are found on the talk page. Most of the keep votes use reasoning like "This is a fun page" or "Pages like this make me smile." These are not valid reasons to keep an article around. RogueNinjatalk 19:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • It may not draw its own conclusions, but it certainly presents its own criteria: "This is a list of non-pornographic films containing at least 100 spoken uses of the word "fuck" (or one of its derivatives), ordered by the number of such uses." Unlike your example, which has a set ranking of 30 airports, the word "frequently" is unnecessarily flexible here. Why not list 200 films? Why not 50? Where is the criteria set? We, as editors, certainly should not profess to do that. In addition, the previous AFDs are not relevant here. Some articles eventually get deleted at their nth appearance at AFD; consensus can evolve over time, or better reasoning for deletion can be presented if it was not clear in previous attempts. See further rationale for deletion in my recommendation below. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 21:20, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • The article wasn't nominated because it's offensive (Wikipedia is not censored), it was nominated because it is an incomplete list with trivial information that should be incorporated into encyclopedic text rather than a list.--The Dominator (talk) 21:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Wikipedia would not work if incompleteness was an objection to the existence of articles. This article/list deserves time to mature, just like everything else. Keep.JamesLucas (talk) 20:06, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • That article chooses the 30 highest ranking airports because the sources its uses lists 30. This seems appropriate to me. Here, however, we're just picking out our own criteria. It's nothing to do with censorship -- I wholeheartedly support articles that cover vulgar content and only hope that they offer something encyclopedic. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 21:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • You also mentioned merge above; are you favoring either action, or one over the other? Just asking for clarity. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 21:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm for creating a new article using a small percentage of the info here, so closer to delete than merge, I guess.--The Dominator (talk) 21:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Delete as a WP:NOT#IINFO and WP:NOT#STATS violation. I also feel that due to the need to create (arbitrary criteria, etc.) it is a WP:SYNTH (if not WP:OR) violation as well. --Orange Mike | Talk 21:38, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • What's your reason to keep?--The Dominator (talk) 22:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Please assume good faith about the AFD process and those involved with whom you disagree. AFDs are recurring because consensus can evolve. Also, I'm not sure why the article's failure to conform to policies and guidelines is a reason not to take this Wikipedia article seriously. Please feel free to elaborate on your recommendation. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 22:19, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I don't want to insult anybody, but I doubt this article will ever be deleted, since so many people find it amusing, and without any reason, vote keep, as long as these people do that, this incomplete list that violates several policies will most likely stay.--The Dominator (talk) 23:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • The AFD process is not supposed to be a voting process, so a few substantial arguments on one side could outweigh a large number of insubstantial arguments on the other side. It's a matter of providing valid counterpoints to others' points. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 23:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • The criteria for including a film has been determined by the editors to be non-pornographic and to be in the top 100. Why not pornographic? Why not the top 50 or the top 200? The topic of the article was created with subjectively decided criteria synthesizing various resources to give the impression of valid backing. There's no encyclopedic value established by any of the resources -- merely a mish-mash of figures presented in an indiscriminate and inappropriately statistical directory. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 23:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      1. The reason for avoiding pornographic films is obvious.
      2. Lists of superlatives must have cutoffs. The presence of such a cutoff does not make the list unencyclopedic. See List of highest mountains, List of National Football League quarterbacks who have thrown at least 100 career touchdowns, List of the largest urban agglomerations in North America, List of major opera composers (a featured list), and so forth. Spacepotato (talk) 23:49, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      1. No, it's not. Why shouldn't a pornographic film count? Why are we going with films where one may say, "Oh, that's unusual"? For some films, this isn't the case, as with raunchy comedies.
      2. Good point, but the examples you've provided are known for these topics. Like I've said in my recommendation to delete, many of these films are not known because of the number of f-words uttered. The entries fail to be topical, especially considering the resources are family-concern resources in which profanity is part of their breakdown of the film, as opposed to newspapers or magazines that may solely have coverage about excess profanity in films. There's no encyclopedic reason to provide a statistical analysis of films that have not been highlighted as ones that "most frequently use the word" 'fuck'". There is no real-world significance or relevance to many of these entries' number of f-words uttered; in nearly all the cases, the excess profanity are not what makes the film known (with exceptions like Goodfellas and South Park). —Erik (talkcontrib) - 00:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      I wouldn't say why porno films aren't included is obvious, there are a few movies that are well known for swearing, South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut holds a Guinness world record, but I don't see why most of the others are more notable than pornographic films.--The Dominator (talk) 00:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Nobody has said anything about wanting to censor this article, so please assume good faith that there could be other reasons besides what you mistakenly perceive. In addition, what is the notable subject? There is no real-world context provided about this list of films that most frequently use the word "fuck" -- the entries, most of which are not known for excess profanity, are compiled into a directory for statistical purposes. It fails to provide encyclopedic value. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 00:22, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Sorry I meant censorship in the world with various film classifications etc. not wikipedia. Censorship and film ratings are highly controversial areas in cinema studies. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Alright, I understand what you mean now. But the list doesn't necessarily address a real-world understanding of the topic. There are multiple films ranging from the well-known to the lesser-known, so there's no specific insight given. I've suggested a prose article based on profanity in film as that would be a perfectly reasonable topic for Wikipedia, but here, it's just number-crunching. The number of f-words in most of these films have no bearing on its fame, whatever it may have. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 00:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      I see no reason for a list. Ask yourselves, what does this article give to people who are researching the usage of "fuck" in film? A good chuckle maybe. A prose article would add information and it would be easier to find sources, I'm sure many people wrote essays on profanity in film, finding a direct count is more difficult though. Also the English-centered, the word "fuck" doesn't exist in other languages, and translations aren't usually accurate. Also in most languages there is not one word like "fuck" that caused controversy in media.--The Dominator (talk) 01:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Nobody have given a good reason to prefer the list over the Profanity in film article.--The Dominator (talk) 02:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Because the list format is completely separate from that. Feel free to make that article; no-one is stopping you. -- Anonymous DissidentTalk 02:06, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      But what is the point of the list? What meaningful content does it give a researcher?--The Dominator (talk) 02:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      A list is an extremely convenient place to get an immediate idea of the number and type of films involved. The FPM is fascinating. Many articles have both prose and lsit forks. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      The list is hardly convenient because we have the chosen cut-off of 100 films. There's no true indication of the scale of films that "most frequently use the word 'fuck'". In addition, these films are hardly signified by the number of a certain word uttered. It still remains statistics compiled in a directory with no real-world context. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 03:23, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Personally I think that there should be a separate project like Wiktionary or Wikiquote for stats, something like "Wikistats".--The Dominator (talk) 05:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      In reply to Erik - yes, it does have real world context, of course it does - film is part of the real world, last time I checked. And there are many many lists on Wikipedia, and they are an accepted kind of content, so, if you want, vent your opinions about lists at an appropriate forum, rather than using it as an incentive to delete one list. -- Anonymous DissidentTalk 08:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Excuse me, but you and I are part of the real world, but we don't have our own articles. The films themselves are notable, the word fuck is notable, but a list of films using the f-word a lot is not notable because it's a mere compilation of indiscriminate statistics through editors' arbitrary criteria that do not offer the real-world context (as in sourced analysis) of films that most frequently use the word "fuck". I am arguing for this particular list topic, not all list topics in general, and I've explained clearly that this is a synthesis of two notable subjects -- film and profanity -- in a list form that fails to establish itself as notable. Review the sources used for the multitude of these entries; they don't specifically mention the frequency of the f-word used. Editors compiled the bits of information together to make it look like these rankings really do exist, when in reality they established them themselves. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 13:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Well, looks like we disagree there - profanity has been closely linked with film ratings systems and given how it has been discussed I would be surprised if someone hasn't quantified some sort of list somewhere and (shock! horror!) it may not be online. I know people who have worked in the field of censorship. In any case, I may go and find some more commentary on this myself, but as I have a life and volunteer work in and of itself has to come after a few other things, I have no idea wehn that will happen. I'll put it on my todo list if this article survives the AfD.cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • It's not encyclopedic. There's no core topic at hand. Look at the so-called sources -- they're not even part of a specific ranking, they're just family measurements that have been drawn together to give the false impression of ranking. And like I've said, most of these films are not known for the handful of f-words uttered aside from a few, making it an inappropriate directory. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 13:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Having a list of phone number is useful, too. However, please read WP:NOT#DIR: "There is nothing wrong with having lists if their entries are famous because they are associated with or significantly contributed to the list topic." Note the because -- the large majority of these entries do not fall in the so-called category of, "Wow, they sure do the f-word a lot." It's a synthesis of family measurements to provide an indiscriminate list for statistical analysis. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 13:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      I don't want to get personal here but the way you respond to my arguments makes me think you first of all have a personal problem with the word "fuck". I know this term is provoking, and this debate is not about phone numbers. The article Fuck mentions film, but not phone numbers. --Einemnet (talk) 22:37, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      I have no problem with the word, but my argument has been based on the false presentation of this list. Films can be noted for their excess usage of the f-word (I only say 'f-word' for the sake of being amicable here), but please review the resources used to cite the majority of the films. They are family measurements, which do not comment on the unique aspect of the f-word being used. For instance, looking at Nil by Mouth, it has a sentence that says, "The film ranks among those featuring the most occurrences of the word 'fuck' in a fiction movie, with 428." Its reference is this: "At least 428 "f" words (with at least 3 used sexually, plus some similar slang terms)..." And that is all it says. It doesn't make the assertion that it ranks so highly among films with f-word usage. We took that number and synthesized it into this list. Perhaps a citation could be found reflecting that this particular film is known for excessive f-word usage, but many of the listed films rely on generic family measurements. It's certainly not a specifically published list of films that fall under this criteria. Hope you understand what I'm getting at. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 22:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Nobody has once said that it's not referenced or not notable, we just said it's unencyclopedic, which it undoubtedly is.--The Dominator (talk) 14:53, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      No! references, notability, NPOV, encyclopedic content are the four main things. Now that we're at it, it's not notable as a list, as a prose article sure, but the list gives no good content.--The Dominator (talk) 15:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Quote: "it's unencyclopedic, which it undoubtedly is". No it is not "undoubtedly unencyclopedic". Some people here argue it is unencyclopedic, whereas others say it is encyclopedic and thus suitable for Wikipedia. That is exactly the discussion we are having. --Reinoutr (talk) 16:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Explain to me how it is encyclopedic, an encyclopedia gives research information. I seriously doubt that anybody is going to research how many "fucks" there are in a film, they might research profanity in film, which is a useful topic, but number of "fucks" is just trivial statistics. This article is useless for research, only useful because it is a fun page, but that isn't what Wikipedia is for.--The Dominator (talk) 16:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      non-NPOV is not a reason to delete. If you think a prose article would be better, I'm all with you. Just move the content to an appropriate title and rewrite it. No need to delete the material. User:Dorftrottel 16:14, January 29, 2008
      Please read this: WP:NOT#STATS.--The Dominator (talk) 16:17, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Ok... always interesting. As I said, I'm all with you if you were to rewrite it as prose. Maybe The word "fuck" in the media or The word "fuck" in popular culture would be plausibly circumscribed topics? User:Dorftrottel 16:28, January 29, 2008
      I was thinking more like The word "Fuck" in film or Profanity in film.--The Dominator (talk) 16:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Both sound good to me. User:Dorftrottel 16:50, January 29, 2008
      • Amending my original comment in light of Erik's very valid point, made below, that "there is no such existing ranking of f-word count. It is a compilation of family measurements that are not predisposed as one of the ranks of films that most frequently use the word 'fuck'." As per my exchange with The Dominator directly above, a new article (or maybe initially new section in fuck) about the word as used in films could be well-referenced and worthwhile — but it should be proper prose, not a made-up ranking. User:Dorftrottel 20:08, January 30, 2008
      • World's busiest airports by passenger traffic copies directly from the existing rankings (which tops at 30) in its sources. Look beyond this particular article -- there is no such existing ranking of f-word count. It is a compilation of family measurements that are not predisposed as one of the ranks of films that most frequently use the word "fuck". —Erik (talkcontrib) - 13:09, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • That's why we have suggested a prose article, nobody ever said that the word fuck in film is not notable, we just said it's unencyclopedic. Think of someone doing a research project, the number of "fucks" would be irrelevant, what would be relevant is, which movies caused controversy (ex. South Park), which actors are known for taking roles with alot of swearing (ex. Joe Pesci) or directors that make movies with alot of profanity (ex. Tarantino, Scorcese). A list doesn't help.--The Dominator (talk) 14:54, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have to disagree that the actual word count is irrelevant. While I've never done any formal research on the subject, I find myself constantly referring back to this list to compare movies, etc. If I ever did do a research project (one which would acknowledge wiki as a veritable source), I believe I certainly would use this list. I realize I'm basing my argument on my own example, but I think I represent many others. However, if you must delete it, please at least keep the list somewhere else, which I think you want to. Erik, I think the reason we have never seen this list in any other source is that most sources wouldn't want to 'dirty' themselves with such a statistic, which I know wiki doesn't worry about. Maybe Maxim or Rolling Stone could pull off publishing a list like this, but few others would dare to.Chriscapitolo (talk) 10:38, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Okay then, I will provide a point by point counterargument of those. I am not, however, gonna argue over interpretation of these guidelines and policies in great detail. Many of the Wikipedia policies are open to multiple interpretations anyway (as is clear from the vigorous discussions here at AfD):
        • WP:NOT#IINFO: The only of the five points that are mentioned that applies is number 4 (Statistics). The first sentence of that section reads: "Long and sprawling lists of statistics may be confusing to readers and reduce the readability and neatness of our articles.". I disagree that this list is confusing as it is accompanied by a clear introductory text that explains what the articles is listing. Also the criteria for inclusions, while arbitrary, are cleary defined and mentioned.
        • WP:NOT#DIR: The only of the five points that are mentioned that applies is number 1 (Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics ). In this case, I disagree that this is a loose association between the subjects, as, again, the association is clearly defined and, given that multiple websites are dedicated to statistics like this, are of significant cultural impact.
        • WP:NOT#STATS: Redirects to WP:NOT#IINFO point 4 and is therefore redundant. --Reinoutr (talk) 20:37, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • It makes me smile too, your reason for keep is what now?--The Dominator (talk) 14:55, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • How do you respond to the fact that most of these films are not made famous because of the fact they most frequently use the word "fuck"? Some of them are, but many on the list are drawn from the family measurements resources. In addition, the stats are "long and sprawling" because of the unnecessary "fucks per minute"-related columns that are irrelevant to this so-called list topic. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 21:03, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Thats reason for cleanup, not deletion. --Reinoutr (talk) 07:05, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes, the criteria is arbitrary: This is a list of non-pornographic films containing at least 100 spoken uses of the word "fuck" (or one of its derivatives), ordered by the number of such uses.' We the editors are establishing that criteria. In addition, the topic is not notable beyond reasonable doubt -- do not mistake the notability of films in general and the notability word the word fuck to assume that a list of films that frequently use the f-word is encyclopedic. It fails WP:NOT#IINFO, WP:NOT#DIR, and WP:NOT#STATS. Most of these films were not previously identified as films that ranked high for using the f-word, and editors here have personally established these so-called rankings, with these films having no relevance with each other. It's inane to assume that the number of f-words used in a film intrinsically connects them all into an encyclopedic list. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 13:09, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Please read the discussion before voting, it seems that the deleters are always relevant to the topic, while everybody who wishes to keep just comes in and does something like "Keep, obviously notable" without reading through the discussion. If you'd actually read the arguments, than you'd realize that nobody says the topic is not notable, we're saying that the way the information is presented is not notable. --The Dominator (talk) 14:47, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • For god's sake, did you even read the discussion?!?!? 1. Entertaining is not a reason Wikipedia is not for entertainment. 2. Nobody said it isn't well sourced, just unencyclopedic and 3. Who said anything about censorship? I was talking about creating an article called "The word "fuck" in film. Please read the discussion before posting.--The Dominator (talk) 21:24, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Comment. I'd like to rebut a number of arguments for deletion.
      1. These films are not notable for their use of the word "fuck". There is no requirement that each item in a list of superlatives be notable because of the list's subject. All that is required is that the subject of the list be notable. For example, Moose Jaw is not especially large but is legitimately included in List of the 100 largest metropolitan areas in Canada; similarly, Dayton, Ohio is not famous for its size but is included in List of the largest urban agglomerations in North America.
      2. This list is useless for research purposes. The list points the reader researching profanity in film towards unusually profane films. Also, the list gives evidence as to trends in profanity over time.
      3. The rankings in the list are original research. The list does not give rankings.
      4. The computation of "fuck"s per minute is original research. Trivial computations are not original research. (Even if they were, this would be a reason to delete the FPM column, not to delete the entire list.)
      5. We should have an article on profanity in film. This has nothing to do with this list. Anyone is free to start the profanity in film article at any time.
      6. The list is unencyclopedic. In the absence of supporting arguments, this is no more than WP:IDONTLIKEIT.
      Spacepotato (talk) 00:50, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      6 is the general argument and the rest are arguments in support of it.

      1. The list you mention is different because that actually ranks the cities. 2. These aren't "unusually profane films", these are just films that happen to use one profane word many times. 3. Nobody said it gives rankings, the way the info is put together is OR. 4. Well yeah, that is pure original research.--The Dominator (talk) 00:59, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 03:14, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Clint Catalyst[edit]

      Clint Catalyst (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Delete author of a redlinked book ranked #186,742 at Amazon.com, and coeditor of another redlink book ranked #881,917 at Amazon.com; no indication that he is notable per WP:BIO. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:22, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      I think consensus is clear. The result is delete. east.718 at 00:05, January 31, 2008

      MoG (person)[edit]

      MoG (person) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      This is a vanity page with major WP:COI concerns. Had I discovered it first, I would have speedied it, however the speedy tag was removed in good faith. It was subsequently readded whence I discovered it in CAT:CSD, but generally a speedy tag shouldn't be applied twice, so here it is. This article should be deleted as a non-notable bio of a living person. Keeper | 76 18:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Mogowner (and I'm sure your username is just a coincidence, MoG wouldn't write an article about himself, would he? </sarcasm>). See my message on your talkpage. Keeper | 76 21:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Keeper, I am not MoG - just a big fan of his. MoG has had more tournament winnings than about 3 others Smash tournament players in the US. He certainly is a notable figure. I don't see how his field of expertise, gaming, makes him irrelevant in an encyclopedia.Mogowner (talk) 22:03, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      So, you're not MoG, you just own him? Keeper | 76 22:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Please read this. Keeper | 76 22:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      You may think what you wish, but deleting this page will dishearten all of MoG's fans.Gregor04 (talk) 22:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Sorry to hear that. I still say delete. Keeper | 76 22:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was delete. Coredesat 03:14, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Awase Kenpo Kai[edit]

      Awase Kenpo Kai (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Does not assert notability RogueNinjatalk 18:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 03:15, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Dr. Zoltan Øbelisk[edit]

      Dr. Zoltan Øbelisk (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Delete sourced to youtube, seems to fail WP:BAND or WP:BIO. was blanked by anon, I restored it to go through process here. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:53, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 03:16, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Red Dragon American Karate[edit]

      Red Dragon American Karate (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Its been tagged at not notable for over a year, and it is indeed, not notable RogueNinjatalk 18:38, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Delete. JERRY talk contribs 23:32, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Messianic prophecies (views: BUPC)[edit]

      Messianic prophecies (views: BUPC) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      This article is not referenced and appears to be largely the views of one individual. The "BUPC" is a small sect of perhaps no more than 100 individuals and the inclusion of this article in no way passes WP:NPOV#Undue weight, in the sense that this was originally part of the page Messiah. The only real reference representative of the views of this group is www.entrybytroops.org, which itself has no publishing information, or even authorship (J.T. Lamb is a pen name). As the pertinent information on this page is already mentioned on the BUPC page, I suggest deleting or redirecting. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 18:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was delete. Coredesat 03:17, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      AMOK![edit]

      AMOK! (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      I originally just put some tags on the page, but after some research, I realized that this martial art is certainly not notable, and possibly even a hoax RogueNinjatalk 18:27, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • When I do the search you mentioned I come up with: Websites run by his organzation, message boards, and places he sells things, but nothing that satisfies WP:V RogueNinjatalk 17:34, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • The search verifies that he and his org. are international and active, does it not? I was using that only to verify that there is active interest in AMOK! as evidenced by seminars. The book verifies its existence and being selected for inclusion in the book is an indication of some measure of notability. JJL (talk) 18:04, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Withdrawn by Nominator, non-admin close. Redfarmer (talk) 18:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Beckermonds[edit]

      :Beckermonds (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD) Article was new a while ago and left it alone advising the author that it should be expanded upon to show WP:N. No additions of Notability have been added since and the article was Prod. Prod removed by author without explanation, Reverted and removed again by User:UsaSatsui with the statement "This appears to be describing a geographical location, which are generally considered notable (unless you can show it doesn't exist)." [8].

      Delete I don't think that an article with "This town is here between here and here is notable" WP:N requires that there be something more then this. Otherwise, the location of my house will become notable. See Munster, Ontario for an example of what I'm talking about. There's only like 1000 people in the town and if you blink while your driving, you'll miss it... but the article has something that makes it notable. Pmedema (talk) 17:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      AfD withdrawn as per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes#Geography--Pmedema (talk) 15:00, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was delete. Coredesat 03:18, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      James Thorpe (soccer)[edit]

      James Thorpe (soccer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Contested prod. Yet another player who fails WP:BIO because he has never played in a fully professional league. Delete per ample precedent, including this. пﮟოьεԻ 57 17:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Comment Now that I have deleted the copyvio from here, there is not a single word of text left. Kevin McE (talk) 00:18, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      That's irrelevant - we don't vote on the current content of articles, but rather whether or not the article could ever reach an encyclopedic status. ugen64 (talk) 00:46, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      That is why I made it a comment, not a vote. However, no content means no claim of notability, and that is grounds for deletion. Kevin McE (talk) 01:40, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Thankfully, that doesn't remotely resemble Wikipedia policy. We're voting on whether the subject of the article fits the notability standards, which has absolutely nothing to do with the actual substance of the article. BigKennyK (talk) 05:23, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      That comment is of limited truth:
      a) this is a discussion, not a vote;
      b) Any article about a person must contain a legitimate claim to notability. If the article has no text, that might be said to be missing. Kevin McE (talk) 21:01, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delete has not played in a fully professional league, when he does do so, recreate it. There has to be a cut-off point, and having played in a professional league is where the cut off point lies. King of the NorthEast 20:22, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Whilst only considered by a few editors the consensus and argument showed a clear call to delete. --VS talk 07:15, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Sukhdev Singh Jalwerha[edit]

      Sukhdev Singh Jalwerha (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Prodded article, prod was "not notbale in accordance with Wikipedia:Notability (people) . Google results are just Wikipedia mirrors. Also seems to be a relative of the article creator.". I am disputing the prod because I think this person may have some notability if sources can back up the article's claims, so I feel it should have an AFD. This is a procedural nom (for the moment). UsaSatsui (talk) 17:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      As has been succintly presented by UsaSatsui the article will be notable as per wiki standards only if the claims that are made are backed by third party reliable sources. Moreover the article seems to have lot of very personal information which should idealy be removed. LegalEagle (talk) 13:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delete because there are no reliable sources as defined by Wikipedia:Reliable sources. The article is almost certainly written by a relative (probably son) of Sukhdev Singh Jalwerha (the user name is Sunnybondsinghjalwehra and he is from Belgium). Of course, you can keep the article if somebody finds reliable sources like newspapers or journals for claims like "first Sikh in the world to get a political stay as a refugee" and "first turbaned Sikh in Belgium" after winning a major court case. These claims are currently unsupported and there are no reliable sources. Things like leading a protest of 70 people and opening an International Council of Khalistan Branch in Belgium is no indication of notability. I can open an International Branch of Jesusland in Peru today. I can organize a group of 70 intelligent design supporters and protest against teaching of evolution in schools. Who cares? There are no reliable sources for even this. WTF is "Jathedaar of Belgium" appointed by "President Dr. Aulakh"? Khalistan doesn't even exist and therefore "President Dr. Aulakh" and Jathedaars appointed by him are of no significance. And need I mention that even among Khalistan supporters, "President Dr. Aulakh" is recognized as the leader of Khalistani movement by just one small faction. 203.158.89.10 (talk) 14:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was Delete. --VS talk 07:17, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Jim Neuhaus[edit]

      Jim Neuhaus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Seem to fail WP:BIO. A failed legislative candidate. No evidence of "significant press coverage" of his career as school board trustee. Sounds like an upstanding citizen who had an unexpected death, sad but unencyclopedic. Bellhalla (talk) 17:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      While there are a fair share of independent news agencies that covered him, I can not assert with absolute certainty that it satisfies WP:BIO. It might be considered a close call. The man lead a robust military career, became an entrepreneur, and in later years; a politician. One of his sons is also an established actor, which has attained notability from the NY Times, IMDB, TV.com, TBS, and others.[1][2][3][4]   — C M B J   22:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Comment: the references you provided seem to show that Ingo Neuhaus, may be notable. Unfortunately, those don't seem to be valid reasons for keeping the Jim Neuhaus article. (See WP:NOTINHERITED) — Bellhalla (talk) 15:23, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      References[edit]

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      The result was conditional temporary keep for now, and if this does not get translated, please relist this article to the AfD. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 06:01, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Büyük Kaçğun[edit]

      Büyük Kaçğun (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      The article is all in Turkish and it have a copyright message at the beggining. I think it is enough to delete it. Kubek15 - Talk, Userboxes, Contributions 17:40, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      The copyright message says it is GNU, if it is not copied from semewhere else then there is no problem with this.


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      The result was Delete per limited consensus and precedent. Keeper | 76 01:33, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      J. E. Sherrill[edit]

      J. E. Sherrill (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Seems to fail WP:BIO. Only one reference listed pertains directly to subject and, as an obituary, seems not to consist of "significant press coverage" of his mayoralty of Bovina, Texas Bellhalla (talk) 17:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was delete. Mr.Z-man 21:49, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      J. C. Trevino, Jr.[edit]

      J. C. Trevino, Jr. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Seems to fail WP:BIO. References listed are all obituaries, and don't seem to show "significant press coverage" of his membership on the Laredo Community College board of trustees. Mr. Treviño sounds like he was a nice man and respectable citizen, but not encyclopedic. Bellhalla (talk) 17:15, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 03:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Joe Roach[edit]

      Joe Roach (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      No Texas state legislator by that name (Several with last name of "Roach"; none from Houston or named "Joe" or "Joseph"). No Congressman/U.S. Senators of that name. (One senator, one representative with last name "Roach"; neither from Texas or named "Joe" or "Joseph"). Article mayhave started out as vandalism. Bellhalla (talk) 17:02, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 03:35, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Beau Musika[edit]

      Beau Musika (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      This one's been recreated about five times after being speedied so I'm bringing it hear. Non-notable actor who has only had minor and uncredited roles. Fails WP:BIO. Also fails WP:AUTO as it is written by the subject. Redfarmer (talk) 16:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was No Consensus - Keep. --VS talk 07:36, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Bill Booth Revival Machine[edit]

      Bill Booth Revival Machine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Band not seemingly meeting WP:BAND, seems almost like no notability asserted but bringing here as anon declined prod without comment. Google very quiet. tomasz. 16:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Yes, there's not very much on Google (being that the band is almost 40 years old), but to a niche community - The Salvation Army, they were an important cornerstone of music. As mentioned in their article, many of their songs made it into the every say SA repertoire. I really think this article could grow over time. Why not just give it a chance? It's already had one major contribution. Hobmcd (talk) 15:16, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was keep for now and the article probably needs a major rewrite in order to keep up with our WP:MOS. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 05:58, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      PrefixNE[edit]

      PrefixNE (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Delete advertising for NN company Mayalld (talk) 16:31, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Hello Again,

      I'm the creator of the Article. Fairly new to Wikipedia, I must say that I'm a bit confused with all of this, but I still know, this Article is not an hidden advertisment.

      This is a well known product, with hundreds of users world-wide. you can Google it, and you will find hundreds of reviews and talks in forums about this. I barely wrote anything about the product, non the less, any hidden or revealed advertising.

      I'd be happy if you can mention specifically, what is wrong with my post, I'm more then comfortable with changing or editing it so it will be as objective as possible.


      Thank you,

      - Nathan — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nathan1982 (talkcontribs) 17:01, 28 January 2008


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      The result was Delete per consensus. The title Princess (film), according to the disambiguation page at Princess (disambiguation) says this is supposed to be about a Danish film. Since this particular film being considered is not crated yet, the delete opinions carry more weight. Once the "new" ABC Family film is created/verifiable, the disam page needs to be fixed when this page is recreated (and I can only assume it will be). Keeper | 76 01:45, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Princess (film)[edit]

      Princess (film) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Violation of WP:CRYSTAL. Television movie which has not aired and little is known about. Says plot is currently unknown. Recreate when more is known. Redfarmer (talk) 16:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was keep. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 18:14, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Mikhaela Reid[edit]

      Mikhaela Reid (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Fails WP:BIO, however probably doesn't meet criteria for a WP:CSD#A7. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 16:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete both. I've userfied BlinkingBlimey's new text, so that he can recreate the article with it. Sandstein (talk) 12:08, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      The Four Types of Pleasure[edit]

      The Four Types of Pleasure (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
      Who's Driving The Boat? (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

      Prod (by me) and prod2 (by User:DGG) removed after expiration by anon IP without comment. Concerns were "Non-notable neologism", "neologism at best, fits into "made up in school one day". Encourage a snowball close on this. Jfire (talk) 16:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      I'm not surprised that someone has used the phrase "the four types of pleasure" in a scholarly way, but I don't see any evidence that the content of the article in any way reports on such use. In fact, your links reinforce just the opposite -- that it's just something made up one day, nothing worth merging. Compare "physio-pleasure, socio-pleasure, psycho-pleasure, and ideo-pleasure" with "Arbitrary Categorization, Correcting People When They're Wrong, Solid/Liquid Interaction, and Who's Driving The Boat?" Jfire (talk) 16:49, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Thanks for the effort Blimey, but I think it would have been better to wait until this AfD was closed and then recreate the article. Rewriting it to refer to a different subject entirely while the AfD is in progress muddies the waters and makes it confusing for any newcomers to the AfD. Plus, it's not really clear that what you have is sufficiently notable for Wikipedia -- it's a question that needs to be debated on its own, and now it risks becoming rolled up in this AfD. If other editors agree with me, I would suggest you consider reverting. Jfire (talk) 18:20, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      I agree. It would be wiser to purge the joke content, then start a new article with the real material, otherwise it is too easy for the jokers to revert it unnoticed back to their version in future. Perhaps BlinkingBlimey could userify the new content until the AfD is decided? Espresso Addict (talk) 18:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 03:51, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Govende[edit]

      Govende (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Contested prod. Non-notable neologism; no evidence this had any use outside a small group of internet users. Wikipedia is not for things made up one day. Jfire (talk) 15:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • I can't understand you. Is "Ghits were mostly this article" supposed to mean something in English?

      Note: I just noticed the article wasn't properly tagged as nominated for deletion; it now is. Jfire (talk) 19:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was No consensus - Keep. --VS talk 07:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Rayshawn Askew[edit]

      Rayshawn Askew (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      No evidence of meeting WP:BIO, signed in the All American Football League, which isn't playing yet, lack of Reliable sourcing as well, prod removed, Delete Secret account 15:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was red card. Coredesat 03:52, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Reiner Hasan[edit]

      Reiner Hasan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      This appears to be a hoax, but I'm no expert on Italian football. It was created last October. The page name is Reiner Hasan; the article is about Domenico Lammardo. There are a few google hits, mainly in Italian. It was drawn to my attention by Towerman86. Tyrenius (talk) 15:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 03:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Kasimir Berger[edit]

      Kasimir Berger (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      As the article says "occasional child actor", fails WP:BIO JD554 (talk) 15:43, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 03:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Allan Albaitis[edit]

      Allan Albaitis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      ((notability)) added and removed a couple of times. Would fail WP:BIO at the moment. Montchav (talk) 01:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 03:54, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Amy George[edit]

      Amy George (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007 - AFD'd as per protocol Montchav (talk) 01:26, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 03:55, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Arthur Babbitt Fairchild[edit]

      Arthur Babbitt Fairchild (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability Montchav (talk) 01:14, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was keep. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 06:03, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Box.net[edit]

      Box.net (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Not notable, advertising ~Ambrosia- talk 06:31, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Notable Press Mentions:

      Fortune The death of the desktop

      AOL Money and Finance Is Microsoft threatened by Box.net? Should Google buy it?

      PCWorld Store it on the web

      ZDNet Buh-bye hard drive: Box.net's online storage now directly accessible by multiple Web apps

      Wall Street Journal: 1 , 2, 3

      Information Week Box.net Opens Online Storage Platform To Web Services

      Red Herring Box.net Gets $6M, Awaits Google's Move —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.204.153.246 (talk) 18:23, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 03:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Fr. Sauter Ltd.[edit]

      Fr. Sauter Ltd. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007 Montchav (talk) 01:16, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • Delete. I was looking for sources for this article a couple of days ago, and couldn't find anything substantial. PirateMink 11:06, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 15:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Redirect. Tim Vickers (talk) 03:58, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      G.707[edit]

      G.707 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007, plus numerus other tags Montchav (talk) 01:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was keep. Sandstein (talk) 12:11, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Galeria Kazimierz[edit]

      Galeria Kazimierz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007 Montchav (talk) 01:18, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Keep (non-admin closure). ChetblongT C 04:51, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Ganbaron[edit]

      Ganbaron (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007. I'd need understanding of Japanese to expand the reason for AFDing Montchav (talk) 01:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was keep. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 01:49, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Garouden[edit]

      Garouden (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007. I'd need more understanding of Japanese to expand the AFDing Montchav (talk) 01:20, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Note: this editor added identical keep votes without meaningful rationale to a large number of AfDs. Jfire (talk) 23:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Also, per style guidelines, it should be rewritten to put the novels first, then the derivative works (manga and film) afterwards. I'm not yet clear on whether the anime was based from the novels directly, or from the manga. The film is directly from the novels (it predates the manga). —Quasirandom (talk) 15:05, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I've rewritten the lead per the above, which means the assertion of notability per WP:BK 3 is now made, which means the deletion rationale is now invalid. —Quasirandom (talk) 16:18, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Delete. --VS talk 07:45, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Gasser v Stinson[edit]

      Gasser v Stinson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007. Other than that, I'm neutral Montchav (talk) 01:21, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Note: this editor added identical keep votes without meaningful rationale to a large number of AfDs. Jfire (talk) 23:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was delete. Mr.Z-man 21:39, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Geneva School, Winter Park[edit]

      Geneva School, Winter Park (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007. 425 students is pretty small by school standards Montchav (talk) 01:22, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delete per WP:ORG -- Ļıßζېấשּׂ~ۘ Ώƒ ﻚĢęخ (talk) 22:17, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Keeo. --VS talk 07:49, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Genius Inter College, Bistupur[edit]

      Genius Inter College, Bistupur (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007 - previously PRODed, AFD'd as standard. I remain neutral though Montchav (talk) 01:23, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was Keep. --VS talk 07:51, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Glee Club (comedy club)[edit]

      Glee Club (comedy club) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007 - AFDing as per protocol Montchav (talk) 01:26, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • What "protocol" do you speak of? --Oakshade (talk) 05:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Note: this editor added identical keep votes without meaningful rationale to a large number of AfDs. Jfire (talk) 23:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was keep. Sandstein (talk) 12:13, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Institute for Social and Economic Research and Policy[edit]

      Institute for Social and Economic Research and Policy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007-adding here as per protocol Montchav (talk) 01:32, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delete The article rambles and doesn't make a point about importance. --Stormbay (talk) 15:03, 27 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was keep. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 23:10, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Interbrand[edit]

      Interbrand (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007-Omnicom merge possible Montchav (talk) 01:33, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Snowball keep - it's sourced and obviously notable, one of the most important and prominent branding companies in the world, operates worldwide and does work for a good number of the world's biggest companies. The notability is right here in the lead: "a full-service branding consultancy with 40 offices in 25 countries. Interbrand has an extensive list of clients, with large corporations spanning many industries..." A quick news search shows quite a few stories even in the past few weeks in reliable sources.Wikidemo (talk) 18:53, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Keep. I'm inclined to agree with Wikidemo, as there appear to be sufficient sources to document widespread notability. The claim of notability could be more explicit, but the facts presented make the notability fairly clear to me. UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 02:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was keep.--Kubigula (talk) 22:53, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Irlandsfronten[edit]

      Irlandsfronten (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007. 2 previous proddings Montchav (talk) 01:34, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delete The article lacks good sources and fails to establish the subject's importance. The Irlandsfronten appears non notable. --Stormbay (talk) 14:34, 27 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Moreover, I don't see the source problem. It does have only one source, but on the other hand it is highly authorative. --Soman (talk) 19:53, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Note: this editor added identical keep votes without meaningful rationale to a large number of AfDs. Jfire (talk) 23:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was keep. Wizardman 15:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Kalaimamani[edit]

      Kalaimamani (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability on the article itself since March , previously propsed4dletion2007 Montchav (talk) 01:36, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Note: this editor added identical keep votes without meaningful rationale to a large number of AfDs. Jfire (talk) 23:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Delete. --VS talk 07:57, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Kelly Foods, Inc.[edit]

      Kelly Foods, Inc. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007. Previously proposed4deletion Montchav (talk) 01:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delete The company does not appear to have a notability that is encyclopedic. --Stormbay (talk) 22:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Note: this editor added identical keep votes without meaningful rationale to a large number of AfDs. Jfire (talk) 23:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was Keep. --VS talk 07:59, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Kent Glowinski[edit]

      Kent Glowinski (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007-just fails WP:BIO, AFDing per protocol Montchav (talk) 01:28, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delete The article lacks good sources and fails to establish the subject's importance. Kent Glowinski appears non notable at this time. --Stormbay (talk) 15:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      The subject "Kent Glowinski" is a notable figure in Federal Canadian Politics, the Canadian Legal System, the media, and the Canadian literature community. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jordonlamontagne (talk • contribs) 20:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Note: this editor added identical keep votes without meaningful rationale to a large number of AfDs. Jfire (talk) 23:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delete. A bunch of minor media mentions does not add up to notability. Vagary (talk) 23:36, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • I would agree if these were trivial mentions, but they are not. Many of the articles are about Glowinski and only him. Furthermore, the articles by Mclintock and by Rowlands are full-length profiles of him. --Paul Erik (talk)(contribs) 05:05, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was No consensus - Keep. --VS talk 08:06, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Les Légions Noires[edit]

      Les Légions Noires (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      I firmly believe that Les Legions Noires existed and that a small number of bands released records. However, the vast majority of this article constitutes original research as it is unsourced, and is quite possibly unsourceable. I have tried to improve the article, but in the absence of sources I do not see how we can keep it. Obviously fanzines and Internet forums do not count in this instance. Equally, there is no point voting to keep this article if nothing is, or can be done to improve it. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 01:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Interestingly the articles on the French and Dutch sites consist of what I had whittled down this article to before you reverted my changes... the only bits which can be sourced, i.e. an introductory paragraph followed by a list of bands. Regardless, appearance of Wikipedia pages does not establish notability. Releases on noteworthy labels might do, but not if the labels are 'noteworthy' for releasing LLN records. That would be circular logic. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 14:00, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      The fact that a subject has an article in another language is not in and of itself sufficient to establish notability; however, it is usually an indication that a subject has received international attention and is probably encyclopedic. We have an entire project dedicated to writing articles that have entries in other languages (here). Beyond that, WP:MUSIC notes that bands who release enough material on notable labels may generally be considered notable themselves; it's a good benchmark for a group's popularity. Chubbles (talk) 14:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      I would be prepared to keep the article if all of the unsourced statements are removed, which is what I had edited the article down to - a statement that these individuals exist, that they are French and that they released a small number of records (I believe it is about five across the thirty odd bands said to be involved) on notable named labels. Everything else is unsourced and/or unsourceable and hence cannot be considered encyclopedic. This is in fact what the French and Dutch pages appear to have. I am still in search of reliable sources but they do not appear to exist. There is a further problem incidentally... the text is near identical to the text on this Myspace site: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=282534767. I don't know which came first, the Myspace bio or the Wikipedia entry. The creator of the article has claimed that they have plaigarised him, but we only have his word for that. The Myspace site also has a French translation of the article, though this does not appear to be present in the French Wikipedia article. I am not sure what to make of this or how to proceed. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 16:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      The text of this article predates the creation of that myspace page. Chubbles (talk) 17:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      OK, I'll attempt a rewrite, but I am going to remove the unsourced rumoured material. Anyone else out there reading this who wants to help, feel free ;-). Blackmetalbaz (talk) 00:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Actually, I was wasn't going to mention WP:MUSIC as my beef with this article is broadly one of verifiability not notability, but since you mention it... which bit of the guideline do you think qualifies LLN for inclusion (I agree with your stance on notability in general but I'm unconvinced the guideline backs you up on this one). Blackmetalbaz (talk) 01:09, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      I vastly prefer the current revision, though it still needs some work. I've found a few Terrorizer reviews and a brief historical mention from the black metal retrospective looking at regional scenes. I'll try and add some of it with citation. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 22:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      You think that it is valid that there should be an article for this subject, or you think the article as currently stands is valid? If I remove everything unsourced, we end up with a nearly blank page. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 00:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Comment. There is nothing wrong with stubs. If the subject is notable, then better a stub than nothing. If the only way to improve the page is to strip it down to a stub, then so be it, but that should be the approach: not deletion. Bondegezou (talk) 16:26, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      'Being a big deal' is POV and needs sourcing. To claim that the LLN was as big as the Norwegian 'Black Mafia' but more so' is ridiculous, as numbers of reliable sources and record releases will demonstrate. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 23:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was No consensus (default keep). Considered relisting, but nominator has not cited any valid reasons for deletion. JERRY talk contribs 01:27, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Lochness (song)[edit]

      Lochness (song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      This is just some song off Angel of Retribution, not released as a single nor generating controversy or acclaim. It's apparently Priest's longest song, but how is that notable? Will we have an article about the longest-running song by every band ever? Toss it! Howa0082 (talk) 01:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was keep.--Kubigula (talk) 20:49, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Luna Parker[edit]

      Luna Parker (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Does not meet WP:MUSIC. No sources. Non notable. Delete Metal Head (talk) 03:40, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Delete. --VS talk 08:22, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Moshcore[edit]

      Moshcore (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - ([[((subst:FULLPAGENAME))|View AfD]])

      This article has been nominated for deletion before and the decision was to keep. However, since then not a single reliable source (in two years) has been provided to justify its inclusion as a real genre. This means that at present it constitutes original research. I am thus proposing it for deletion again. If sources are forthcoming, it may be worth keeping it (the term is obviously in use as Google will testify, but then many terms are). Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Wow, you think citing a Google search constitutes 'some sources'. Have you come across Wikipedia before, or are you trolling? Blackmetalbaz (talk) 23:12, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Oh, it gets better. You have posted a link to the results of a search in the Italian Google. For the English Wikipedia. Genius. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 23:14, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was Non consensus - no discussion - Keep. --VS talk 08:31, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      ProductSifter[edit]

      ProductSifter (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007-once prodded, declined. Adding here as per protocol. I remain neutral to the discussion here Montchav (talk) 01:44, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was delete. Seraphimblade Talk to me 08:21, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      The Insight Party[edit]

      The Insight Party (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      no claim of notability since March 2007. not google's friend Montchav (talk) 01:31, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delete I don't feel that a campus political organization has encyclopedic importance. --Stormbay (talk) 15:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was delete. --Ixfd64 (talk) 20:19, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Jewish Family & Life[edit]

      Jewish Family & Life (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Delete self-promotion of NN company by a user with a clear WP:COI Mayalld (talk) 15:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Keep (non-admin closure). ChetblongT C 05:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      JVibe[edit]

      JVibe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Delete NN niche-market magazine, which has WP:COI issues Mayalld (talk) 15:31, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was Nomination Withdrawn, non-admin close. Redfarmer (talk) 16:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Jonah Falcon[edit]

      Jonah Falcon (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non-notable person known for his "big penis" who achieved some level of exposure because of pranks to him from the Howard Stern Show. There was a profile of him in Rolling Stone but that seems the only secondary coverage he has received. He had numerous bit non-speaking parts in various American and British TV shows and was interviewed briefly in a HBO documentary, but these don't seem to satisfy WP:BIO. Redfarmer (talk) 15:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Considering, on my behalf, I'm currently writing a screenplay for production and am going to be featured in Details magazine, and about 100 (well, dozens, anyway) magazine articles and TV shows I've already appeared in, you'll end up writing my entry all over again. (rolling eyes) I know it's uncool for the subject to speak up, but I may as well. The fact I'm writing and going to appear in my own major motion feature is probably enough. (laugh) JAF1970 (talk) 16:13, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      I said no other secondary source coverage, which blogs do no count as (for the record, the first Ghit I get is for the Wikipedia article). However, the subject has provided coverage below so I am withdrawing. Redfarmer (talk) 16:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      I've also appeared in FHM, OUT, Max (the German version of Maxim), and TV shows such as Nicole (the German teen version of Oprah - don't ask), Yanky Panky, Sky News, ProSeiben etc, and a ton of other stuff not listed here. Been on over 200 radio shows, too - if there's a major radio DJ, I've been on it (from Howard Stern to Opie & Anthony to Ginger Lynn, even did a show with Jack Nicholson and Gene Simmons[24] - all not on here. If I were allowed to edit my own Wiki (which I seldom do), you'd see a ton more sourced info. Maybe I should start posting it. JAF1970 (talk) 16:20, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      My apologies. I did try to find information before I nominated but had a hard time. I'll withdraw for now. If you want to send your sources I will help revise the article to get it up to standard. Redfarmer (talk) 16:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was Delete. --VS talk 08:35, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Robert Grant (surgeon)[edit]

      Robert Grant (surgeon) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Article fails WP:BIO. Article was created by an WP:SPA account with no other edits other than related to columbiasurgery.org. possible copyvio http://asp.cumc.columbia.edu/facdb/profile_list.asp?uni=rg424&DepAffil=Surgery. Part of a larger spam campaign that seeded WP with numerous bios of run of the mill specialists. Self-promotion and product placement are not the routes to having an encyclopaedia article. Hu12 (talk) 15:02, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was Userfying per author's request to continue working. The article can now be found by clicking here. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:49, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Vladimir Riazanov[edit]

      Vladimir Riazanov (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      This was nominated for speedy deletion per CSD A7. I saw it and fixed the attempt at an ((underconstruction)) tag since I thought it was a borderline speedy candidate. The original speedy-tagger came back and removed the tag and replaced it with ((notability)). That being said, no Google results come up for his full name (nor does anything relevant sounding come up for the first and last names). The references also don't seem to be valid. I smell a hoax. Can someone with greater knowledge of Russian history comment? IronGargoyle (talk) 14:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


      I had about this person at университетский Санкт-Петербург ( University of Saint-Petersburg ) during my first year. This person is controversial in Russia. There is no doubt that this person has lived, but whether the background is correct, is unsure. Some link this person to Lenin and Stalin, but personaly I think that is to unsure to be stated. I have send a mail/message to this user: "Myhren" and recived an answer. He would like to extend the article, but was a new user on Wikipedia, as far as he told. He says that he would finish the article later this week, with more references. Maybe we should give the new user some time, but keep looking with it.

      Very litle about this person has posted on the web, cause he is not that famous. Maybe in some Russian sircle. I could see if I can dig up my old notes from the university, but would not be able to lay something the next days. Maybe Thursday. Sergey Yevgenyevich (talk) 18:28, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


      Please see the discussion-page at Vladimir Riazanov.. Myhren (talk) 19:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was merge all, I'll leave the job of the actual merging these contents to another editor. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 07:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Concealer (song)[edit]

      Concealer (song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Also included in this nomination:

      I'm a fan of Thursday, but, let's face it, not every one of their songs is notable, and these certainly are not. None of them were singles, the vast majority are never played at live shows, and they don't have secondary sources to establish their notability. Paris in Flames even seems to have a spam link in it. Fails WP:MUSIC. Redfarmer (talk) 06:49, 17 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


      Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
      Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Redfarmer (talk) 10:25, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
      Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Redfarmer (talk) 14:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was keep. John254 04:17, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Nordine Assami[edit]

      Nordine Assami (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:00, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Axioms in school mathematics[edit]

      Axioms in school mathematics (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      My original ((PROD)) reason: Arbitrary list. Are we going to include the group (mathematics) axioms because they are studied in school? DePRODed by an anon. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 13:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete article, with a redirect in place per below. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:33, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Karsus[edit]

      Karsus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Previously deleted for claims of blatant copyright violation, the article was nominated for deletion review where the copyvio issue remained unresolved. The article was recreated in shortened form during the nomination, so while copyvio issues might have been resolved, there are notability and sourcing problems remaining, so community discussion seems in order. My editorial opinion is delete unless rewritten and sourced from independent sources/speedy delete if copyvio issues can be substantiated. ~ trialsanderrors (talk) 13:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was Delete. JERRY talk contribs 01:34, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Werkplaats Typografie[edit]

      Werkplaats Typografie (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Apparently non-notable typography course at institute (ArtEZ Institute of the Arts) that has no article.

      Contested prod by anon: "The Werkplaats Typografie is a very notable school in the field of Graphic Design. Students from all over the world attend this Workshop, and a lot of it's ex-students are influential contemporary graphic designers. The Werkplaats (Workshop) has been co-founded by the influential modernist Graphic designer Karel Martens. Ex-students include (and this is a very incomplete list); Stuart Bailey / Dexter Sinister Joris Maltha & Daniel_Gross / Catalogtree Hans Gremmen / Hans Gremmen

      I do agree that this article has to be expanded, but deletion would be a loss and plain stupid."

      Espresso Addict (talk) 13:28, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      The Werkplaats Typografie (WT) is part of ArtEZ Institute of the Arts. WT is a two-year masters programme centred on practical assignments and self-initiated projects. It also serves as a meeting place for graphic designers with regard to research and dialogue.
      The WT is supervised by Karel Martens and Armand Mevis. Further guidance is given on a regular basis by Paul Elliman and Maxine Kopsa. Anniek Brattinga and Liesbeth Doornbosch are in charge of co-ordination.
      Visiting lecturers are regularly invited to provide individual tutoring and/or for presentations. Reviews of work, critiques and project participation are informal in character. Participants work in a professionally equipped studio accessible 24 hours a day. The WT is open to a maximum number of twelve graphic designers who would like to deepen their knowledge and skills.
      Participation depends entirely upon proven ability.
      The web site for WT establishes it as a program at the school itself, and a small one. There has to be a lot more done in this article to show why this study program is notable. The attitude seems to be "if you're a graphic designer you'll know what it is"... Well, most people who use Wikipedia aren't graphic designers. If it's only notable to them, it's not notable. Again this article does nothing to justify what is important about this study program, and at the minimum that needs to be expanded. -- Atamachat 17:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:01, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Surf Knight[edit]

      Surf Knight (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non-notable web browser. Fails WP:CORP. Also, violation of WP:COI as the article was written by the person who created the browser. Reads like an advert. Denied speedy because admin felt it could be fixed. Redfarmer (talk) 23:26, 23 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Thanks for your consideration talk) 11:25 PM (EST), 23 January 2008


      Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
      Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Redfarmer (talk) 13:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Delete - "It's gonna be famous some day" (with its more elegant variants, such as "It has great potential") is the lamest defense in the book for a non-notable band, website, program, etc. If and when it becomes notable, then and only then does it get an article. (And WP:COI is not just for commercial enterprises; it applies to charities, schools, ideologies, etc.) --Orange Mike | Talk 21:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Delete. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 23:36, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Actors who died in their 20s[edit]

      Actors who died in their 20s (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      This should be a category, if anything. WEBURIEDOURSECRETSINTHEGARDENplay it cool. 21:46, 23 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


      Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
      Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Redfarmer (talk) 12:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Exactly. If this is closed as no consensus, I'm gonna re-nominate it and demonstrate that this fails vital Wikipedia policies.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 01:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      It helps to actually read policies, guidelines and essays before invoking them. Phil Bridger (talk) 11:34, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Comment I seriously doubt this policy applies in this case. This "article" is nothing that can't be substituted by a category. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 05:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Comment - Per WP:CLS, categories and lists aren't in competition. "You can replace this with a category" is not a valid argument for deletion. Torc2 (talk) 22:21, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Reply This "article" is nothing more than a pseudo-category. It should be deleted for that alone. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 05:28, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Comment - I don't know what I just said or what in WP:CLS was unclear about the matter. "Better as a category" is a non-argument. Torc2 (talk) 08:49, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Reply You pointing to generic wiki policy aside, do you have any actual reason as to why this "article" that consists of nothing more than a few links to dead actors, should be kept? — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 13:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Comment - I never said to keep the article. I was just pointing out the flaws in using that argument to delete the article. If we're going to delete it, let's delete it for legitimate reasons. "Better as a category" is not a legitimate reason. Torc2 (talk) 19:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Reply Yeah yeah, whatever. There's nothing flawed in deleting an article that serves no purpose and could be substituted by a category. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 22:39, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      That's a word for word rerun of the same article the user used to create this page to begin with. That does not establish notability but rather that a newspaper wanted to capitalize on sentiment surrounding Heath Ledger's death. Redfarmer (talk) 09:58, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:05, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Spectraliquid[edit]

      Spectraliquid (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non notable electronic music label. Article fails WP:V Sting au Buzz Me... 12:08, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:06, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Bad pie[edit]

      Bad pie (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non-notable regional neologism JD554 (talk) 11:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • We could probably WP:SNOW delete this. Could have been prodded as a totally uncontroversial deletion per its failure of multiple policies.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 12:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:06, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Meenakshi Sundaram[edit]

      Meenakshi Sundaram (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Not a notable person per WP:BIO. The only link goes to a free webpage which is a biography of completely different person with the same name. Dekisugi (talk) 11:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC) Dekisugi (talk) 11:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Keep. Trusilver 08:20, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Slaad[edit]

      Slaad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non-notable stock character from Dungeons & Dragons. There are no reliable secondary sources to demonstrate real world notability of this "Product Identity". This article fails WP:NOT#GUIDE, WP:NOT#PLOT, WP:WEASEL and WP:WAF, so there is no benefit from keeping any of this vacuous fancruft. Gavin Collins (talk) 10:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • According to Wizards of the Coast, they are creatures[26], but since the term stock charcter also covers stock creatures, it makes little difference.--Gavin Collins (talk) 14:40, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Eh? "creature" is more-or-less synonymous with "fantasy race". I agree that a stock creature would be a stock character; but this isn't a stock creature but rather a race of creatures. That's not the same thing. Percy Snoodle (talk) 15:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      That is a specific member, of a specific sub-race of Slaad, for a different aspect of the game. You are not showing that you have done much research really at all. Web Warlock (talk) 14:45, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Web Warlock (talk) 15:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Please recall the question is if the topic fails WP:N, not a article. (At the moment the article passing WP:N by a wide margin, but probably not when you wrote this... Hobit (talk) 18:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      The third party Tome of Horrors from Necromancer games is another slaadi reference. And a slaad and a slaad associated artifact (which the plot revolves around) appear in "Downer: Volume 1 - Wandering Monster" and "Downer: Volume 2 - Fools Errand" by Kyle Stanley Hunter, neither of which were published by TSR/WotC. If someone has a moment to add any of those as references, please feel free.Shemeska (talk) 12:03, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment - You have not done any research and I question whether you actually know the meaning of the word. Had you done research you would have found ther third party publications, the entries in various magazines OR maybe, if you were very clever, seen the articles relating these creatures to old superstions of toads that swallow gemstones. But you didn't so obviously you didn't actually research anything. Web Warlock (talk) 12:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      As for the article itself, it is well written, lists for its references printed publications not only by the game originator, and has massive Ghits, not only in the context of the originating publication. It satisfies the notability for fiction guidelines; as for the other acronyms listed by the nom, (WP:NOT#PLOT, WP:WEASEL, etc.) I won't bother addressing them as they are clearly not germane to the matter in question. I would also like to point out that it falls to the nominator to substantiate why the acronyms quoted are relevant, rather than just listing them. I could list two dozen random acronyms here, then sit back and wait for other disputants to answer the accusations. Freederick (talk) 12:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment. If it's notable among a real-world subculture, then it's notable. Period. There are many sections of Wikipedia that are of interest only to specialists. You've fallen prey to a variant of a fallacy known as argumentum ad populum, except you don't present any actual evidence that "other people" believe as you say they do. If your imaginary friends would like to vote on this talk page, they can speak for themselves. Until they do, I'm calling your argument Appeal to Hallucination. -- Poisonink (talk) 16:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment even so, it takes multiple independent sources to show that it's notable within that subculture, and the article doesn't have those. Percy Snoodle (talk) 16:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment. It has four independent sources. -- Poisonink (talk) 17:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment Which four? Remember that Yamara was first published in Dragon, so it's not independent. Can you provide any way to show that the print refs aren't just trivial mentions? Percy Snoodle (talk) 09:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Thank you very much for generalizing all roleplayers as people who have a tenuous grasp on the difference between reality and fantasy. I appreciate it, as I'm sure the millions of other people who engage in the hobby do too. --Ig8887 (talk) 18:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Comment. I think Gavin means to say he disagrees with Ig8887. Regardless of his uncivil generalization of all RPG fans, comics and roleplaying games are the primary means of livelihood for many people. Expecting a RPG monster to have impact beyond the realm of fiction, commentary on fiction, or RPG supplements (i.e., a slaad saved the life of a small child in Virginia) is a ridiculous burden to impose, and not something required of any other articles on fictional characters on Wikipedia. The article in question does offer detail on the work's development and impact, which suggests that Gavin either has not bothered to read the article in question since it was edited or that he's deliberately ignoring these aspects. -- Poisonink (talk) 18:47, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Exactly; if Doonesbury can be seen as a secondary source on real-world events, then a comic whose primary mode is to comment and criticize on the world of D&D is a secondary source on the fictional world of RPGs. The comic is not part of the D&D game, cannot be used in playing the D&D game, and exists solely to make comment on things within the D&D game. It does so with parody, a legitimate form of commentary. --Ig8887 (talk) 18:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment Actually, I do like it; there are some great lines in the plot summary that make me laugh:
      • "If either a red slaad or blue slaad infects an arcane spellcaster, the host will spawn a green slaad...".
      • "If the death slaad survives a century, it turns into the demonic white slaad."
      I have a question: if a green slaad, white and red slaad get together, do they make a slaad tricolore? --Gavin Collins (talk) 09:59, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      No, just Ceasar slaad. I couldn't resist, sorry. :) BOZ (talk) 13:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:15, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Book hidden face of credit[edit]

      Book hidden face of credit (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Someone afd-tagged the article (a prod tag had been previously removed) but didn't complete the nomination process. The article's author then left a comment on the empty debate page. I'm just filling the gaps in the nomination process so the discussion can begin. --tcsetattr (talk / contribs) 09:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      This is an article about a book published some years ago. It is not promotion or advertising. This is the first time I am using Wikipedia. And so far it is turning out to be very frustrating, as I seem to be fighting some automated machine.
      I tried to follow the format used for other book in the approach to describe the book and its contents. So please someone (not a computer automated response explain to me the necessary corrections)????
      I use the following layout to product this page:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacking:_The_Art_of_Exploitation

      (the preceding stuff is the original comment left by User:JorgeS on the empty debate page)

      Delete: per lack of notability. Dear Jorge, a) you should not try to promote your own book here; it IS advertising where you have a conflict of interest. Referring to another article is not a good reason to keep this article: it may well be that the other article should be deleted too. This should be speedily deleted.--Gregalton (talk) 10:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      You should also make your conflict of interest clear if, as it appears, you are the author.--Gregalton (talk) 11:38, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Comment on comment. You cite wp:notability but then ask "Is the book written about in English (like the English press, or cited in academic studies, or ever referred to)?" Where does wp:notability say anything about the language of the sources? --Paularblaster (talk) 01:54, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Fair point. I only meant it in the sense of potential interest - if the book is only notable because it covers a topic, but there are ones in the same language as this Wikipedia, they would naturally be of more interest (assuming there is no content that is entirely original). But I recognise that is not necessarily a criterion, and that I can't speak to the content of the book. I retract the langague point. It still does not meet notability criteria, however.--Gregalton (talk) 15:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      delete While it seems the author of this article may honestly just be a little unfamiliar with Wikipedia standards, that does nothing to establish the notability of the subject, and neither do any of the provided references, some of which are not in EnglishBeeblbrox (talk) 00:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • Comment. Please don't bring the language of the sources back into this discussion. As explained above that is irrelevant and only serves to cloud the issue. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:03, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:17, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      List of Swedes who died in the Spanish Civil War[edit]

      List of Swedes who died in the Spanish Civil War (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non-encyclopedic/non-notability. Information about every person who died in a particular war is hardly relevant for an encyclopedia. We don't have "List of Germans who died in World War II" etc. for the same reason. Slarre (talk) 09:07, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • I actually agree. Encyclopedic coverage of Swedes participating in the Spanish Civil War should be possible and encyclopedic (I presume it's been done already), but this list remains unnecessary.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 03:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Delete. Tyrenius (talk) 20:52, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Philippe Dubois[edit]

      Philippe Dubois (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Artist without evidence of notability. Page deleted twice before (through prod and speedy), it's time to discuss this once and for all. Among the 52 Google hits[28], none indicate any notability. Most are simply listings of painters, and his homepage. No Google scholar[29] or Google books hits[30] (there are hits for other Philippe Dubois (a rather common name), but not for this one. Has won a minor award, exposition in a local museum. Fram (talk) 08:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was keep as basic notability has been established through references in article and here. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:48, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Per Bylund[edit]

      Per Bylund (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Fails Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria. The article does not explain why this person has any notability outside of his subject. He has apparently edited some book and designed some "anarchist logo", but not acheived much more that would deserve an article of its own. Slarre (talk) 08:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      That's just one source. Furthermore, PB is not the the main subject of attention in that news clip. /Slarre (talk) 15:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Per Bylund on Anarchism.net argues for his notability in the discussion on anarchism.net's forum, I think it is only fair to bring forth his argumentation for the opportunity to be taken into consideration so I quote:

      source I couln't add to quote due to parse error, Maybe somewhat fervent on my part to post what Per had to say regarding the deletion proposal but I edited the article extensively(relative to my own standards) Lord Metroid (talk) 00:04, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Keep The design of a logo that has international usuage and recognition, makes him worthy of a mention, and this is far from his only role in politics. I had found this article informative, and had stumbled upon it whilst reading about many other left-libertarian topics, and it helped me locate other useful infomation outside of wikipedia. The article is short, concise and relevant. Lostsocks (talk) 13:54, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Comment: All those links prove nothing. Most of them are articles written by Bylund, so they hardly qualify as secondary sources. Two or three of them are blogs, which hardly qualify as reliable. The other ones are just brief, rather trivial, mentions. That is no way enough to establish notability. The fact that the aricle "is short, concise and relevant", that it "helped [you] locate other useful infomation outside of wikipedia", or whatever doesn't matter, because it doesn't make the topic any more notable. Please base your arguments on the notability criteria.--Carabinieri (talk) 14:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • "Could be notable" is not a reason to keep. Notability has to be proved.--Carabinieri (talk) 12:00, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      No I am making an assumption on what I read. If it looks likely on the balance of evidence, then I am happy for the time being until more sources can be found. As opposed to unlikely in some other AfDs. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:37, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Comment Sorry, I really didn't have a whole lot of time when I wrote that. Zazaban (talk) 00:18, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was keep as a notable character and per improvements by Otto4711 et al. Bearian (talk) 16:55, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Sue Snell[edit]

      Sue Snell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Article about a fictional character that fails WP:FICT (guidline which is disputed) and WP:NOT#PLOT (policy that is not disputed). It contains no out-of-universe information and is a very long plot summary from four different adapatations, but still just that; that does not make it more notable in the real-world. hbdragon88 (talk) 08:43, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • Some of the above links don't appear to be linking properly, but all of the book hits are available through the book hits link. Otto4711 (talk) 16:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • While I still strongly dispute the notion of redirecting or deleting this article, if it is redirected it should be to a List of characters from Carrie because there is verifiable information here that is separate from the novel, a little of which I've added and sources for additional are available. The contention that the article contains no out-of-universe information is no longer true. Otto4711 (talk) 17:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think it's great OOU information but borders on so minimal that it seems that it better belongs in the main novel article opposed to Sue Snell or a list of characters one. hbdragon88 (talk) 02:37, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I guess I'm a little confused. The nomination is based on the notion that real-world information is lacking, and when presented with real-world information you still are advocating for deletion. Otto4711 (talk) 03:02, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm the only one who has stated a desire to delete. I have not reiterated that statemente. The rest want to merge, redirect, which means the AFD will probably be closed as such, with the merging being left as an editorial decision to the editors of this article. hbdragon88 (talk) 04:01, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • (edit conflict) I looked through the sources you found, and I have to agree with Hbdragon88. First, the article as it stands would need a complete rewrite to be encyclopedic--I don't think anyone is doubting that. Second, while I agree that there is now verifiable secondary information on the character (and have stricken my comment above accordingly), the issue of "significant coverage" as specified in WP:N is not satisfied as I see it. It's clear from the sources (and from subsequent poking around) that Carrie is definitely notable under these standards, but Sue is only mentioned as a contrast or in conjunction with Carrie--she does not receive sizeable coverage in her own right. I rather like your idea of redirecting to a list of characters in Carrie, but I simply don't believe the article can stand on its own. --jonny-mt 04:15, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result wasSpeedy delete as vandalism by Dlohcierekim . """Numerous reasons cited below confirmed. Dlohcierekim 22:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      FWF[edit]

      FWF (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Probable WP:HOAX. (from the talk page) All sources which are quoted in the article as referring to "FWF" are in reality referring to rap group N.W.A. All claims are an apparent transcription of similar assertions on the N.W.A article. For a group supposedly founded in the 1980s you'd expect to see more than zero Ghits. Zedla (talk) 08:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      strong delete A hoax, and not a very funny one at that. Their MySpace page has a couple songs, they sound like a bunch of drunk teenagers Beeblbrox (talk) 09:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was Delete. Please note, I did not merge any content, nor will I be. If someone else (non-admin) would like a copy of the deleted material to perform a merge, please ask on my talkpage. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 23:40, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      The Turnbuckle[edit]

      The Turnbuckle (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Insufficiently notable. A student radio program on a 30 watt college radio station which doesn't show up on the station schedule. No Ghits other than primary sources and nothing on google news. Zedla (talk) 08:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was Keep. --VS talk 08:42, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Most Phallic Building contest[edit]

      Most Phallic Building contest (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Prod removed by author. I tried to clean this up a few months ago, but no notability has been established. It was a one-off contest by a quasi-notable magazine; notability is not inherited. As far as the references listed go, the first is a dead link, the second and third are blogs, the fourth is someone's personal website, the fifth is not free and the sixth is to the magazine itself, which can't be used to establish notability. If anything, this should be a redirect to Cabinet (magazine) faithless (speak) 08:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delete or Merge although "the brick dick" is pretty funny, this doesn't seem very notable on it's own Beeblbrox (talk) 09:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Why would he have any less right to his opinion than you do? V-train (talk) 06:30, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Because Captain Impartial, as you've doubtless been seen arguing in other pages, wikirules are supposed to give less weight to non-users. This guys doesn't really have a profile as far as I can see, he may as well be a random IP, nor does he offer any reasons. the guy smacks of the sort of vote you ignore, or weight less, he comes on after a few months, posts a series on one liner "delete"s in a swath of votes, and disappears for a few months again.JJJ999 (talk) 10:42, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Perhaps I was incorrect; you made this edit? I assumed it was the author of the article as 1. the IP has edited the same articles as JJJ999 and 2. the edit summary appears to be signed. Cheers, faithless (speak) 10:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      OK, I see what happened now. It seems that I forgot to actually remove the prod tag, even though I had stated that that was my intention, but some IP user came along afterwards and removed it anyway with that strange edit summary. That wasn't me. Phil Bridger (talk) 11:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment First, no one "owns" any article on Wikipedia. Second, I don't care that that article was deleted. You might remember that I didn't even argue against its deletion. Please be a little more careful when accusing others of bad faith - you've had trouble with this in the past. faithless (speak) 11:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      dude, I haven't claimed anyone "owns" anything on wikipedia, given the speed of your reply (under 3 mins!?) it sounds like you rehearsed your speech in advance without even reading what I said. If people here choose to believe it is pure coincidence that you AfD'd the page I created only 1 day after your authored page was deleted, that's up to them. I merely suggest occam's razor poses to me an alternative spin. Your own rational for the nomination isn't even sound! You claim you suggested improvements, and no edits were made, which the above comments show is false. This nom should be cut down for sheer silliness.JJJ999 (talk) 11:43, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I wrote a four sentence (hardly a "speech") response - what about that suggests it was "rehearsed?" So when you wrote, "...I had one of faithless pages deleted..." you weren't suggesting ownership? My rationale is quite sound - this contest isn't notable. The sources cited pretty much fit into one of two categories: unreliable blogs or passing mentions. Cabinet (magazine) is of borderline notability at best; a one-off contest held by the magazine doesn't come close to being notable. Furthermore, I did not, "...claim [I] suggested improvements, and no edits were made..." I said I cleaned up the article, and notability has not been established. Please don't twist my words. faithless (speak) 12:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      You couldn't even get the references right! And you fail to note it was covered in other magazines like Slate... not that Cabinent isn't notable either. You haven't done anything to alter the previous consensus it was notable. I don't know what the numbers on Cabinent are off hand, but the other magazine it was covered in, with the back and forth, Slate magazine, has Annual Revenue: $3.9 billion USD · Employees: 14,800. Yeh, borderline notable... pfft, and the contest is available on numerous 3rd party sites, not just "blogs", even a simple google search could demonstrate this. End of argument.JJJ999 (talk) 12:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I beg your pardon? What do you mean I couldn't get the references right? I assume you mean that after I nominated the article, Phil Bridger added more references, which made my earlier statements no longer valid, as the number and order of sources was different. Was it covered in Slate? Funny, it isn't one of the sources. And I'm sorry, what earlier consensus? faithless (speak) 12:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Well, firstly it's bad faith in my humble opinion, because a) it comes 1 day after your article went, b) you have made no substantive improvements or added anything to the discussion page, and c) you have misrepresented the notability. The "Blog" of a famous author for example is not without notability, no more than Christopher Hitchens or Noam Chomsky's websites or blogs are to be treated like some kids site. Jonathan Ames for example is one of the "mere blogs" you cite. Given he is notable enough to have his own wiki page, I suggest that is a source right there. There are also numerous other sources, and it was certainly in an article in Slate magazine I saw, though I'm not going to go look for it now, assuming it's online. Sure, this could be good faith, I just look at the above factors and am extremely skeptical. you have additionally gone deliberately to the talk page of numerous people asking for them to come vote here, under the pretext of "informing those who have edited it", though given several of them are friends of yours I am pretty skeptical of your motives again. I am glad the first one to reply has gone against you.JJJ999 (talk) 12:31, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      First, I informed everyone who edited the article that it was nominated, so don't accuse me of canvassing (and for the record, the first to reply argued to delete it). Second, again, it wasn't "my" article, just as this isn't "your" article, so stop referring to them that way. Third, again, I didn't even argue to keep that other article! I don't see how I can make it any clearer than that. I showed you where I said back in October that the article ought to be deleted, so stop trying to paint this as bad faith. I don't care that that article was deleted, nor did I try to prevent its deletion. Fourth, I misrepresented nothing; a blog is a blog. All I said was that it was a blog...where is the misrepresentation? Fifth, sorry, but we can't take your word for it; "it was certainly in an article in Slate magazine I saw, though I'm not going to go look for it now." It doesn't work that way. Sixth, "friends of mine?!" I have only ever come across one of them before, so please stop with the bad faith accusations already. faithless (speak) 12:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Comment. JJJ, if you want to make allegations of bad faith then this is not the place to do it. I agree with you that this should be kept, but the way to get that done is not to make personal attacks on the AfD nominator. The article was very weakly referenced when it was nominated so it was completely valid to bring it to AfD. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm done with him anyway... but not only was it in Slate, and I will find it sometime, but one of the current footnotes is from Esquire magazine, an even bigger publication than Slate.JJJ999 (talk) 12:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Thank you for admitting that you aren't interested in participating in a constructive discussion, and going on to insult me yet again. First, tags have been placed on the article, and they've done no good. Second, I don't think you understand my point; the Ames and Cabinet articles are fine as sources to verify information in the article, but they can't be used to establish notability because, as I said above, they are not independent of the subject. I don't know how to break that down any further for you. Third, you've repeatedly accused me of bad faith, here and elsewhere, while never explaining yourself (never mind that doing so breaks one of our most important guidelines). Such comments can be construed as personal attacks, so I would strongly suggest you think twice about making such unfounded accusations in the future. faithless (speak) 07:47, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • You added tags, and what happened? People improved it. What should your next step have been if you were not satisfied with the improvements? Go to the talk page, or re-tag it, specifying exactly why it was inadequete. You have not made serious attempts to improve the article, and you have made no attempts to create a discussion on the talk page. You are apparently not serious about improving it, so why should we be serious about your questionable criticisms?
      Sorry to burst your bubble, but faithless is not my buddy, I don't know the guy. Secondly, I didn't add the orphan tag. It was added (rightfully) by another user, and you removed it for no reason even though the article WAS orphaned at the time. All I did was revert your edit. You removed it again, and someone else re-added it. The tag ended up doing exactly what it is supposed to: it spurred improvement of the article to make the tag unnecessary. You act like tags are some kind of scarlet letter when their purpose is to make Wikipedia better. I would ask you assume good faith, but you've shown that to be a waste of time. V-train (talk) 06:30, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      I didn't say you personally knew the guy, you post an awful lot with him though...JJJ999 (talk) 14:54, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      ** MOVE TO KEEP- this has had the 5 days and more, and there is a clear consensus to keep, particularly from the independent users. By independent, I mean people who were not called to come here, or "notified", or discussed it with faithless at some point during this AfD. At the very least, with 10-6 in favour of keeping, and the disagreement being largely subjective views on notability, this would easily get no consensus, if one were charitable to the delete side. In such a case where it's based on personal views of notability, the article should get the benefit of the doubt anyway, especially when it's been improved at each stage of criticism.JJJ999 (talk) 12:52, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • Comment. (after edit conflict) Faithless notified you and me about this discussion, so by your logic we are not independent and our contributions should be discounted. Phil Bridger (talk) 13:09, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      1) People not notified by Faithless which also excluded you or I would be an embarassing 7-1 in favour of keep I believe. 7-2 if I count Beelbrox, who I'm not convinced has read any of the discussion here in depth, or followed the edits, as this shows http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20080128092719&target=Beeblbrox he made 4 votes on AfD in 21 minutes, and that seems to be his pattern. I am incredibly skeptical he read this in depth, especially going through all the sources in the 9 minutes before his previous vote. His subsequent vote took a grand total of 3 minutes. could he be reading, then coming back to vote later? Sure, I just find it incredibly unlikely. 2) I don't see why I should discount people who made positive attempts to improve the article, I can't say that of people like P.Hurd, vegas or Faithless, I can say that of you and I.JJJ999 (talk) 13:26, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      And so, I'm that one in favor of delete, right? My opinion was in no way canvassed, and this idea that !voters, wikipedians in good standing, should not be "counted" runs completely against the idea of AfD. This is not a vote, this is not simply a tally of people's positions. Pete.Hurd (talk) 19:29, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was KEEP. fulfils notability cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:52, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Michael Argenziano[edit]

      Michael Argenziano (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Article fails WP:NOTABILITY. Article was created by an WP:SPA account with no other edits other than related to columbiasurgery.org. possible copyvio http://www.columbiasurgery.org/about/dir_staff.html. Self-promotion and product placement are not the routes to having an encyclopaedia article. Hu12 (talk) 07:28, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was KEEP. fulfils notability cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:51, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Kathie-Ann Joseph[edit]

      Kathie-Ann Joseph (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Article fails WP:BIO. Article was created by an WP:SPA account with no other edits other than related to columbiasurgery.org. possible copyvio http://www.columbiasurgery.org/about/dir_staff.html. Self-promotion and product placement are not the routes to having an encyclopaedia article. Hu12 (talk) 07:13, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was Keep. fulfils notability cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Jean Emond[edit]

      Jean Emond (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Article fails WP:BIO. Article was created by an WP:SPA account with no other edits other than related to columbiasurgery.org. possible copyvio http://asp.cumc.columbia.edu/facdb/profile_list.asp?uni=je111&DepAffil=Surgery. Self-promotion and product placement are not the routes to having an encyclopaedia article Hu12 (talk) 07:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was KEEP. fulfils notability cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Mark A. Hardy[edit]

      Mark A. Hardy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Article fails WP:BIO. Article was created by an WP:SPA account with no other edits other than related to columbiasurgery.org. Hu12 (talk) 07:09, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was keep. John254 04:20, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Joshua Sonett[edit]

      Joshua Sonett (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Article fails WP:BIO. Article was created by an WP:SPA account with no other edits other than related to columbiasurgery.org. possible copyvio http://www.columbiasurgery.org/about/dir_staff.html. Self-promotion and product placement are not the routes to having an encyclopaedia article.Hu12 (talk) 07:07, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      1) Two New York Times articles mentioned in article. Plenty more at Google News.
      2-4) Demonstrated by his citation record.
      5) The work on EDC organs.
      6) Awards are listed in the article.

      Remember that only of these is required to pass WP:PROF. Phil Bridger (talk) 08:28, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was keep. John254 04:22, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Jessica Kandel[edit]

      Jessica Kandel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Article fails WP:BIO. Article was created by an WP:SPA account with no other edits other than related to columbiasurgery.org. possible copyvio http://asp.cumc.columbia.edu/facdb/profile_list.asp?uni=jjk47&DepAffil=Surgery. Self-promotion and product placement are not the routes to having an encyclopaedia article.Hu12 (talk) 07:03, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was KEEP. fulfils notability cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:48, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Dennis Fowler[edit]

      Dennis Fowler (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Article fails WP:BIO. Hu12 (talk) 07:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was KEEP. fulfils notability cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:50, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Dominique Jan[edit]

      Dominique Jan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Article fails WP:BIO. Article was created by an WP:SPA account with no other edits other than related to columbiasurgery.org. possible copyvio http://asp.cumc.columbia.edu/facdb/profile_list.asp?uni=dj2107&DepAffil=Surgery. Self-promotion and product placement are not the routes to having an encyclopaedia article.Hu12 (talk) 06:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • I've changed my recommendation, as I was probably overly swayed by the sheer number of similar AfDs. Espresso Addict (talk) 00:56, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was KEEP. fulfils notability cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:53, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Donald Wood-Smith[edit]

      Donald Wood-Smith (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Article fails WP:BIO. Article was created by an WP:SPA account with no other edits other than related to columbiasurgery.org. possible copyvio http://asp.cumc.columbia.edu/facdb/profile_list.asp?uni=dw40&DepAffil=Surgery. Self-promotion and product placement are not the routes to having an encyclopaedia article.Hu12 (talk) 06:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was Keep. Hut 8.5 12:52, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Marc Bessler[edit]

      Marc Bessler (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Article fails WP:BIO. Article was created by an WP:SPA account with no other edits other than related to columbiasurgery.org. possible copyvio http://asp.cumc.columbia.edu/facdb/profile_list.asp?uni=mb28&DepAffil=Surgery. Self-promotion and product placement are not the routes to having an encyclopaedia article.Hu12 (talk) 06:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      I find at least 12 in medline [48], not 2.


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      The result was no consensus, no policy or guideline-based reasoning given for deletion, therefore, it is kept by default. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 15:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      List of Korean War veterans who are recipients of the Bronze Star[edit]

      List of Korean War veterans who are recipients of the Bronze Star (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      A puzzling page, given that this much effort has been put into an article for the fourth highest award for valor (and even then not always awarded for valor, but meritorious service), when there isn't a similar page for higher awards. But more than that, there is a category for this award already. All this does is include a picture. This page has also become a magnet for people adding the names of relatives, friends, etc.Nobunaga24 (talk) 06:33, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Comment - It is still a low level award, and receiving one is not a notable achievement in and of itself. It's an arbitrary way to list people - Korean War vets and bronze star recipients - why not a list of people signed to Sony Records who have been received a Grammy Award, or World War II vets who also fought in Korea. There is no rationale for this article other than somebody thinks Korean War vets who received bronze stars should be listed.--Nobunaga24 (talk) 07:13, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      It's not arbitrary in the context that it's a piece of a whole - it's part of "List of bronze star recipients". There's no requirement to build the whole list all at once, or from the top down. If you are building a robot, you can start with just the left pinky. The list supports the article Bronze Star Medal, and provides examples of recipients. The Transhumanist 21:26, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Not a bad faith nomination, and to be honest, I find that a bit offensive. Nick Dowling's comment and the link he provides are a good summary of what is wrong with this list. It's a combination of two loosely related topics. Go back and read the link Nick provided. I don't think there should be a list of any award by war & medal, with the exception of the MoH. I was merely commenting on the fact that it was a puzzling award to make a list of this sort out of given that there are higher awards for valor and heroism than this (four to be percise - MoH, DSC/Air Force Cross/Navy Cross, Silver Star and Soldier's Medal/Airman's Medal/Navy and Marine Corps Medal).--Nobunaga24 (talk) 13:14, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      I did not impune the motives of your nomination, just your rationale. I assume that you are trying to cleanup wikipedia and rid it of those things that you think make it's quality lower than it could otherwise be, and I salute that intention. But the statements made by Clarityfiend leave no room for the assumption of good faith. My phraseology "the first few delete !votes" was not some accidental or arbitrary writing, it was specifically stated to exclude Nick Dowling's comment from what I was talking about; in other words my comments only applied to the first 3 delete !votes and the nomination. Now as for Nick's comment, a very valid one, it is one of content, not a criteria for deletion. Some editorial discretion should occur elsewhere to make this a non-arbitrary cross-section of attributes. For example, inclusion criteria could be that the person had to receive a bronze star, and had to have received it for service in the Korean Conflict. Then renaming it (also does not require an AfD) to "List of Korean Conflict Bronze Star Recipients" would probably solve the dilemma described by Nick. This AFD is unnecessary, and as nominator you should repeal it, IMHO. JERRY talk contribs 14:05, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was KEEP. although a shaky start on COI grounds, independent notability established cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:06, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Jim Cara[edit]

      Jim Cara (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      COI biography apparently authored by subject's media relations consultant. (Author's only other bio edit was a speedily-deleted article, Neil S. Kaye, admittedly written on a client's behalf; this article follows the same pattern.) The article is completely unsourced and does not demonstrate notability in any single field. While it mentions a number of mildly interesting activities, they do not collectively meet WP:BIO. The only sourced incident is a prank regarding auto registrations that received some trivial news coverage. Author has also inserted subject's name into at least two other articles. Delete. MCB (talk) 06:16, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


      This article was created by myself and a group of others that respect Jim from what he has brought to the national music retail industry. He is the PT Barnum in the music instrument industry and the Zelig behind the success of so many MIDI initiatives that he has many substantial awards. His recent radio program is the first music / talk program that integrates musical industry equipment (musical instruments) information into how those songs were recorded, and also answers questions about those instruments.

      We thought that inserting names into other subjects that he is affiliated with was protocol. Once we showed Jim's article to another notable (DR Kaye)in our area, he encouraged us to do the same for him.

      Jim is exceptionally notable in the Musical Instrument industry and secondly Motorcycle Drag Racing industry, where he was seen weekly as the expert for AMA on ESPN and The Outdoor Channel. Yes we know him, and respect him. How shall we create and maintain a good relationship with you. He is incredibly sourced in the Motorcycle Drag Racing industry, but much more successful in the MI world.


      We will delete the Dr. Kaye article and abide by your rules. Please don't hurt Mr. Cara for any of this. He deserves a place in this, and we will better address his credibility with references. Newssource19805 (talk) 06:00, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


      Here are some sources for Musical Instrument Industry http://www.caramedia.com/resume/MI_resume.pdf pages 17-26 has a bunch of reprints Much of it was in print media. How can we REF this? Shall we ask him to send us things like magazine and newspaper names and print dates then http://www.pgmusic.com/review10.htm
      http://www.projectbarbq.com/bbq96.htm - here he is listed with the most important in the industry in 1996
      http://www.pgmusic.com/review3.htm


      Here are sources for Drag Racing http://www.amadirectlink.com/amrace/SponsorshipGuide.asp
      http://www.dragbike.com/news/02-03/020503a.htm
      http://www.usridernews.com/past_issues/2005PastIssues/Apr05/National%2065-76.pdf
      http://www.motorcyclingwa.org.au/files/Sponsorship%20money%20all%20around.pdf
      Newssource19805 (talk) 06:53, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delete I have looked through all this information and while the subject has certainly done a lot of different things, none of them really seem to be terribly noteworthy. At best the subject seems to be associated with notable people, but that's in itself isn't a claim to notability. Trusilver 07:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Hi, This is Jim Cara, and I don't know where to start here, but I'll just say a few wods and wait for your response. I read all that someone had written here and saw they neglected to write about what originally brought me to the forefront of Musical Industry attention. I was the first person to use modem-modem communications, in the pre-internet days in order to allow long distance composing and collaboration by musicians using MIDI. This was the kickstart to what turned into a colorful and Zelig / Forest Gump style career. I would hate for a overdose of fat to ruin what my contribution to the music industry really was.

      How can I assure that this article is correctly edited and put to the best use of Wikipedia. Most of my things were Pre-Internet and not much digital is available for reference.. 76.99.174.254 (talk) 15:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Off-line resources is acceptable as sourcing. As long as the sources are publicly available. Ie. sources that you can expect to find at the local library is OK. Taemyr (talk) 23:54, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was The result of the AfD wasDelete. Trusilver 07:56, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      If Only I Could Turn Off the Sun, I Would Show You a Brighter Day[edit]

      If Only I Could Turn Off the Sun, I Would Show You a Brighter Day (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      EP by little known rapper at one point linked to Eminem. Only 100 copies pressed. The article also mentions "This album has not leaked" which, as far as I can understand means: nobody but this guy's friend and family remembers it ever existed. Pichpich (talk) 05:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was no consensus to delete. Please take any merge discussion to the appropriate talk page. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      SRV guitars[edit]

      SRV guitars (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Unencyclopedic list consisting of, er... one guitar. No sources, essentially fan folklore. Any encyclopedic information belongs in the Stevie Ray Vaughn article. Delete. MCB (talk) 05:43, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • Comment: "These guitars"? It's a list of one guitar. And the whole article is only a couple of paragraphs. --MCB (talk) 05:57, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      The article is fixed. It now includes all the guitars Izzy007 Talk 23:17, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      PS: Hold the fort on a close, I'll post a note somewhere some folk who may be able to input some authoritative opinion or refs. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:15, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was keep, with no prejudice to continuing the debate over "introduction to" articles elsewhere. This is an early close, but a fair amount of debate has already taken place. It is clear that WP:AFD is the wrong venue for discussing "introduction to" articles in general. Suggest opening a request for comments on the issue, or continuing at one of the discussion threads pointed out towards the end of this AfD. The issues specific to this article (such as proposals to merge with Evolution) should be addressed on the talk page for the article, especially in light of the recently attained featured article status. Carcharoth (talk) 00:40, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Introduction to evolution[edit]

      Introduction to evolution (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Introduction to Evolution should be deleted because of inevitable content forking as the article is constantly under pressure to converge to the sophistication of the main article Evolution. There is - almost - no natural constituency on Wikipedia to maintain - let alone to write - a simple straightforward explanation of evolution. 'Introduction to Evolution' is not supposed to duplicate 'Evolution'. I think we are re-writing 'Evolution'. Wassupwestcoast (talk) 05:38, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      I know, that nobody wanted to create an article for stupids or dummies. I even do not have a problem with this special article, because I have enough knowledge about evolution to understand the article "for specialists" without problems. Then I searched for other Introduction articles. I found Special relativity. I have to confess, it would take some work for me to understand every detail of the article. Then I read the introduction article, which I understood without problems. Everything ok now? No! I did not feel like a non-specialist, I felt like a dummy, because the editors of the special relativity article did not even try to make me (and I hope many others) understand their article. They felt, there was no need to need to try to do so. For people like me, it was enough, to show some basics. This should not be Wikipedia. Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that "anyone can edit," but it also should be the encyclopedia that "anyone can read".--Thw1309 (talk) 17:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      I truly believe that a carefully written lead, possibly an "overview" section in the article, and a careful application of summary style could solve the accessibility issues. In a more complex topic like evolution it would likely take quite a bit of work to get the language and the proper hierarchy of child articles created, but I (and apparently others) think that is a better solution than providing two separate articles on the same topic. Karanacs (talk) 23:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      So why is a graduate school textbook on Biology any different than a high school textbook on Biology or a grade school text on Biology? And if it is possible to have one article be all things to all people, do you not think that Encyclopedia Britannica, working with paid staff over several centuries would have done it already? What makes you think unpaid volunteer staff can do it in a couple of weeks then?--Filll (talk) 23:22, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'd say it's debatable or multi-use. From Wikipedia:Simple English Wikipedia#What Simple English Wikipedia is: In general, Simple English articles are simplifications of the most important points in existing articles, rather than being new. This is likely to make Simple English articles a good way to introduce those written in complex English; if someone has trouble understanding a concept in complex English they can "fall back" to the Simple version. If this is not what Simple wiki is for, the page should be modified. As is, it looks like a combination of simple language and simple concepts. By my reading of the page, it's not a matter of simple language for stupid people, it's simple language for an introduction. Perhaps all the 'introduction to' pages could be transwikied. WLU (talk) 01:05, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        Talk about selective quotation! The rest of the section (i.e., the beginning of the section!) reads "The Simple English Wikipedia uses fewer words and simpler grammar than the original English Wikipedia. It is focused on readers who tend to be quite different from the typical Wikipedia reader with different needs, for example, people for whom English is not a first language, students, children, translators, and people with learning disabilities or those who read below a proficient level." I doubt its purpose could be made more plain. It has nothing to do with this deletion debate. Geometry guy 09:56, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        Just for general information to clarify the above: Simple:Wikipedia:Simple English Wikipedia probably provides a better description of itself than Wikipedia:Simple English Wikipedia. Geometry guy 19:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Such an article is not a content fork. Anyone who has had to teach the basics of anything soon struggles with how it is they know what they know, and what might be the best way to convey that essential kernel to the uninitiated. Quite often one chooses a bootstrapping strategy; seize upon a series of heuristic models, the first of which being so primitive as to make anyone at all knowledgeable in the topic to blanch in horror – or laugh out loud. My first introduction to the concept of an atom entailed tiny clusters of blue and red spheres around which revolved even tinier yellow spheres. Laughable? yes, now, but at the time it got me off the dime. By analogy, “Introduction to Foo” would have a structure and approach to the topic qualitatively different from its more technically refined counterpart – it would not be “Foo” with all the hard words taken out.
      Oh? Really? Ah. I've just been informed that this is the AFD for the Introduction to Evolution, not Foo. Ah me. But no matter, for the one or two of you who have seen me this far, the issue really transcends this article; the issue really entails how this project is to design systems of articles that convey facets of large and complex topics to readers at different levels of competence, including the basic level, at which all of us are with respect to at least one topic (anyone here arrogant enough to claim otherwise?). To my mind, that design necessarily requires introductory articles, and they will be the very hardest articles to write correctly, given the very few assumptions that editors can make about what readers know. Some of you, I trust, will opine that this is an encyclopedia and that introductory articles are out of its scope. Sorry. For better and for worse, we've set ourselves up to be one of the first sites that much of the English speaking Internet visits for information, oft-times basic, introductory information. I do not think we can reach for the “Not my job” disclaimer any longer. Nor does merging the "Introduction" to the central article make sense; writing an article that is simultaneously useful to readers at different levels of competence is even harder to write than introductory articles aimed at a basic level of competence. Possibly Richard P. Feynman could write at simultaneous levels; I can think of no other writer as skilled at expository. Take care. Gosgood (talk) 15:59, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Arbitrary break 1[edit]

      Featured article[edit]

      Since this is now a featured article, the AfD template looks a little odd. Time to wrap this up? .. dave souza, talk 20:39, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Yeah, if I were uninvolved, I would do it myself. It is starting to get embarrassing... Geometry guy 21:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Actually, given the circumstances surrounding this, embarrassing is how I like it and how I want it.--Filll (talk) 21:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Just for the record - I promoted it to FA status because I believe, per the FA nomination, that it meets all the FA criteria. Though I am personally opposed to having 'introduction to' type articles in Wikipedia, FAC and AFD are two separate entities. For FAC we assume a-priori that an article is notable and potentially featurable; by the same token, FA status should not be used as the basis for arguing whether or not an article should be notable enough to keep. Raul654 (talk) 21:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      I agree, and I would expect the closing admin to examine the weight of argument on each side. Geometry guy 21:23, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Absolutely. BTW I'm a keep should it continue - with have a number of excellent articles as introductions to..... of which Introduction to general relativity is my favourite. Such articles do an excellent job of whittling a lot of often, highly technical information down to the bare essentials of a subject. It is unfortunately a symptom of modern life that a thorough understanding of such subjects is beyond the grasp of even highly intelligent university educated people, specialism has put it out of reach, but articles such as this at least bring us to the foothills. --Joopercoopers (talk) 21:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      It does not do us any harm, IMHO, to consider whether "introduction to" articles are appropriate on WP or worthwhile. Since this has been one of the most prominent struggles during the FAC process, to get community input on this point is totally appropriate. --Filll (talk) 21:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Mr.Z-man 21:34, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      ABC for Kids Video Hits[edit]

      ABC for Kids Video Hits (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Fails WP:NOTABILITY. No links. Nothing special. Delete Also see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/ABC For Kids Video Hits 2. Undeath (talk) 05:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Sandstein (talk) 19:45, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      KColorEdit[edit]

      KColorEdit (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non-notable software, no claims of notability. Corvus cornixtalk 05:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Sandstein (talk) 19:47, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Pops In Seoul Charts[edit]

      Pops In Seoul Charts (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      It's basically a list of #1s on a non-notable chart on Arirang TV, a Korean channel meant for international broadcast. As it's a trivial list, there's no reason for such a page to exist. It's the equivalent of having a page on #1 videos on TRL. SKS2K6 (talk) 20:35, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


      Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
      Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Master of Puppets Call me MoP! 05:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was keep per WP:MUSIC and WP:HEY due to addition of WP:RS. Bearian (talk) 17:03, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Joel Rust[edit]

      Joel Rust (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non-notable, which hasn't been remedied after almost two months of a notability tag. The only established attempts at notability are invalid: the competition for Young Composers fails #4 for composers and lyricists at WP:Music, and single performances don't fall under any of the notability criteria. SingCal (talk) 20:38, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      • Delete per nom. --Explodicle (talk) 20:52, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
      Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Master of Puppets Call me MoP! 05:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Comment: However, if the person in question has won a competition arranged by two very established institutions I'd say they're notable. Master of Puppets Call me MoP! 05:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Reply Review WP:MUSIC regarding notability standards. Both of the sources you posted are trivial coverage, seeing as Mr. Rust gets little more than a sentence in either one. The competition he won is impressive, but non-notable under WP policy because it's established specifically for young composers. SingCal 06:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      He gets a sentence, but in the Guardian review he apparently got a positive reaction from an esteemed composer. ("The third winning piece in the senior (16-18) section, Paraprosdokia by Joel Rust, is for a more modest woodwind and brass sextet, but it made no less impact. Wiegold was bowled over by the work's "brilliant" opening.") Personally I think that satisfies notability, but that's the inclusionist in me. Master of Puppets Call me MoP! 06:19, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was delete. What the deleted article's space becomes is an editorial decision that can be made anywhere, so long as this article isn't recreated. Coredesat 04:20, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Player of the Century[edit]

      Player of the Century (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      He wanted to make this the FIFA Player of the Century Page but we kept reverting it so he made it's own page. This page is based on the fact that the creator is mad about the results of the poll. michfan2123 (talk) 04:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delete Are you kidding me? This is an opinion piece, it has no place whatever on Wikipedia. Beeblbrox (talk) 05:37, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Mr.Z-man 21:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Claude roubillie[edit]

      Claude roubillie (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non-notable person. There is no evidence of notability. Jespinos (talk) 04:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Mr.Z-man 21:31, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Loud Fast Rules! (magazine)[edit]

      Loud Fast Rules! (magazine) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non-notable magazine. No sources. Use caution if using ghits to gauge notability: there is a band by this name, but it is not related. JERRY talk contribs 04:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was keep. John254 04:26, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Polk Street[edit]

      Polk Street (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non-notable street. Just a minor mention of a See's Candy store and a few pictures. Kurykh 04:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Kurykh, an AfD is a LAST resort when all other methods of establishing notability have been exhausted. Your justification for deleting this article was "Non-notable street. Just a minor mention of a See's Candy store and a few pictures" not only demonstrates WP:IDONTKNOWIT but indicates you were only deciding the notability of this topic by what you saw in the article and attempted to delete this article without the slightest amount of research (a few second google search would've brought up several articles about this topic). As Wikipedia:Deletion policy states "If the page can be improved, this should be solved through regular editing, rather than deletion." The edit history shows you made absolutely no effort to improve the article and set up this AfD. That's not an assumption, that's a fact. Next time you make a proposed deletion, repeat the following sentence from WP:OSTRICH several times... "A little research on a topic you are unfamiliar with will take just as much time as putting an article up for deletion. " --Oakshade (talk) 23:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      I lived in San Francisco all my life, so I'm not the total ignoramus you are trying to cast me as. Just because this street exists and has a few restaurants does not a notable street make. Admittedly, I didn't word the nomination statement as well as I should, because I was trying to say, "it pretty much cannot be expanded meaningfully beyond the present state." Now if you're presenting information that I didn't know, by all means do so, but if you're going to attack me in the guise of an AfD vote, then keep it to yourself. Next time you comment on a "proposed deletion," repeat the following sentence from WP:NPA several times... "Comment on content, not on the contributor." In your quest to teach people about proper processes, you are only coming across as aggressive and instead alienating those who you are trying to explain to. —Kurykh 00:23, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Yes, and it's also notable for its murals, too. This is how I feel right now. BoL 00:27, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:21, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Black and white (colours)[edit]

      Black and white (colours) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      This article has no content, just a bunch of trivia lists of things that people see as related to black and white. There's no topic here, so no need for an article. There's already an article black-and-white, but we don't don't want all this junk merged there, as someone recently proposed, so let's just delete it, OK? Dicklyon (talk) 04:00, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      comment looked at prior edits pointed out by Zelda, even with an introduction, this article is still completely unsourced original research and trivial research at that. Beeblbrox (talk) 19:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:22, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Norfolk Co-Operative[edit]

      Norfolk Co-Operative (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      It was previously nominated for deletion, but was closed as no consensus. The page reads like an ad and fails WP:COMPANY. Scorpion0422 03:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      the places should be kept independently unless they are neighborhoods only--it is well established that every hamlet is notable. But most of the schools and cemeteries and so onc can be merged without having to bring them here. DGG (talk) 01:21, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      These places are more than just mere neighborhoods. These are full-fledged communities, even if they are just merely hamlets. I will not re-attempt to write the article about Andy's Corners, Ontario. However, you must leave all other articles related to Norfolk County alone, Scorpion0422. GVnayR (talk) 04:23, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      And why is that? If they don't meet notability requirements, then they don't meet notability requirements. -- Scorpion0422 16:54, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:23, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Use your imagination, PBS Kids and You![edit]

      Use your imagination, PBS Kids and You! (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      This is an article about a PBS Kids tagline sentence, which is not even remotely encyclopedic. Keeping this would be akin to having articles for every single solitary insignificant catchphrase for every single advertisement in history. There is no room for expansion of this article into anything that would be useful--currently it is a list of three local variants of the same sentence. I never thought I'd see PBScruft, but here it is. Gladys J Cortez 03:16, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Keep. JERRY talk contribs 23:40, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delhi Tobacco Museum and Heritage Centre[edit]

      Delhi Tobacco Museum and Heritage Centre (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      There is no proof of the museum's notability, except for brief mentions in a newspaper article and on a website, and it fails WP:N Scorpion0422 03:13, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Comment: The above may read as a sockpuppet of mine, it is not. I have never had and never will have any sockpuppets. Poeloq (talk) 20:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Response to Comment: I apologize if my statement was nearly identical to yours, Poeloq. I was just trying to agree with you. GVnayR (talk) 04:22, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Just because a museum exists, it doesn't make it notable. -- Scorpion0422 04:26, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Comment: Oh come on, where is it pro-smoking? Poeloq (talk) 18:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:24, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delhi Cemetery[edit]

      Delhi Cemetery (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      It's a small cemetary in a small county in Ontario and it doesn't appear to have any real notability, or any proof of notability. Sure, it's mentioned at a genealogy website, but many cemetaries are. It fails WP:N. -- Scorpion0422 03:09, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. --MCB (talk) 08:32, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Strategic expression of emotion[edit]

      Strategic expression of emotion (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Original research. May be a paper someone wrote for a class, or a summary of one. (note: author removed WP:PROD tag without addressing concerns) FreplySpang 03:00, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was Keep. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 23:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Alice Sinclair[edit]

      Alice Sinclair (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non-notable reality show contestant. Hasn't done anything of note since the contest. Mikeblas (talk) 05:07, 14 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:25, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Dagon James[edit]

      Dagon James (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Can't find any reliable sources to establish subject's notability; seems to fail WP:BIO. Jfire (talk) 06:44, 14 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      Notice of this AfD has been left for WikiProjects Arts, Film and Music. Pairadox (talk) 02:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:26, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Greekpanel[edit]

      Greekpanel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      wp:neo, tried to google term got basically nothing. word doesn't seem to exist anywhere except in the books that are cited as references. 9 ghits, none are about lighting, except the wikipedia article, which is hit #1. Pharmboy (talk) 02:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Then can you provide citations from reliable sources that use the term? That is the issue. Whether or not it is used is not, for if we can't verify the term, it must be deleted. I can't find any sources that meet (or dont meet) wp:RS. Otherwise, it has to be deleted via the WP:NEO policy or others. Pharmboy (talk) 17:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was keep. John254 04:32, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Bircas Hatorah[edit]

      Bircas Hatorah (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Does not appear to meet notability requirements, possibly has conflict of interest issues, appears to be seeking notability by being on Wikipedia Jeepday (talk) 02:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Agree - And by the way, how do you get capitalization correct on a first submission? It seems WP always 'fixes' capitalization on first sub, requiring a subsequent edit. - Operknockity (talk) 03:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was delete.--Kubigula (talk) 05:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Peace Learning Center[edit]

      Peace Learning Center (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Article consists mostly of text copy-pasted from the organization's web site. It contains no sources, and I was unable to find anything that would establish notability under WP:ORG. L. Pistachio (talk) 01:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. --MCB (talk) 08:38, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Benjamin Piilani[edit]

      Benjamin Piilani (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Speedy deletion overturned at DRV. The article does contain some claim of importance, but it seems to fall short on sourcing. The sources are industry-related and do not seem to be independent, also they do not seem to contain non-trivial information on this person, but merely list him. A broader news search turns up nothing on this guy. So I'd say Delete unless better sourcing is located. W.marsh 01:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:26, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Unixpunx[edit]

      Unixpunx (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non-notable website. Written like an advertisment. Tavix (talk) 01:09, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:27, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Joel Rube[edit]

      Joel Rube (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      The only information I can find about this fellow online is a 1999 newspaper article mentioning his hiring by Navigant, along with some directory entries that may or may not refer to the same person—nothing about his artistic endeavors. Seems to be a nonnotable businessman. Username of article creator matches name of subject. Deor (talk) 00:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was keep. John254 04:30, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Knicks-Pacers rivalry[edit]

      Knicks-Pacers rivalry (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      WP:NOR No proof of an actual rivalry. Tavix (talk) 00:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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      The result was Merge/Redirect to Scratchcard. JERRY talk contribs 23:48, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Break Open[edit]

      Break Open (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      This is just a definition (note sole listed source, a bingo dictionary). Clarityfiend (talk) 00:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delete - I created this page, but have no issue with it being deleted. I expected some help in filling out the pages, discussing break-opens, flimsies and other bingo scratchcards. May just make the most sense to merge this article with scratchcard. --FeldBum (talk) 09:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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      The result was redirect as proposed. Sandstein (talk) 19:43, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Baltimore Transit Company[edit]

      Baltimore Transit Company (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Article is about non-existent service. It should be deleted or merged to Maryland Transit Administration or History of MTA Maryland. This page is about a defunct transit agency that has not been in operation for nearly 40 years, but is written like it is one that is presently existing, and is inaccurate. Of particular concern is the external link on this page, which is to a page that gives the impression the agency is operating today, and is the basis for the inaccurate information in this article. It appears to all be a Hoax. Sebwite (talk) 00:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      I'm familiar wirth the website you're talking about, and while it is no hoax (it seems to be a rather odd tribute site to the old BTCo) I do think that the article ought to be moved as you propose.Staszu13 (talk) 15:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. --Ixfd64 (talk) 20:02, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Harold Stephan[edit]

      Harold Stephan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Autobiography of what appears to be a somewhat marginal musician and producer. No reliable third-party coverage provided and I couldn't find much on the web besides his name popping up here and there. Pichpich (talk) 00:43, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:28, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Viva China[edit]

      Viva China (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Looks like a hoax. Tavix (talk) 00:40, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was delete. --MCB (talk) 08:26, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      .co.nr[edit]

      .co.nr (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      not notable web-site Tavix (talk) 00:36, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Do not redirect; this would be like redirecting google.com to .com.
      As far as notability, considering Nauru's depressed economy as a result of its government's decision to stop offering shady off-shore banking services, this is an interesting page that explores the nation's creative way of bolstering the local economy.
      Also, I haven't done the research in a while, but I am not aware of too many websites that offer free domains, hence this is somewhat notable. « D. Trebbien (talk) 18:31 2008 February 3 (UTC)
      This service isnt run by the nauru government.. see http://www.forums.co.nr/index.php?showtopic=4688 for more info --81.76.102.165 (talk) 21:32, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      Okay. « D. Trebbien (talk) 03:26 2008 February 5 (UTC)
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      The result was Delete both, probably could have been speedied per A7 (band). Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 23:43, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      FR8[edit]

      FR8 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Non-notable band. No references provided. A search for them only turns up cduniverse sales entry and a metal fan sites entry. Claims open for notable bands, but that notability is not currently present for this band. -Optigan13 (talk) 00:33, 28 January 2008 (UTC) I am also nominating the following related pages because album by same band even less references available than band itself.:[reply]

      In Cold Blood (album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
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      The result was delete. Coredesat 04:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Beast slayer[edit]

      Beast slayer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Story with no claim of meeting WP:Notability. Original version said this was a manga; 76 non-wiki ghits for "Beast Slayer" + manga, none of which appear to be about this series. Contested prod. Fabrictramp (talk) 00:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC) I am also nominating the following related pages because it is a character from the story, with no claim of meeting WP:FICTION:[reply]

      Sanosuke the Beast Slayer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
      Soresuma the Feline (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)


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      The result was Delete.   jj137 (talk) 00:47, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Bak 2 Bassikz[edit]

      Bak 2 Bassikz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      not-notable Tavix (talk) 00:15, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Delete - agree with nominator, non-notable. Calvin 1998 Talk Contribs 00:22, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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      The result was Userfy for possible smerging. Policy arguments below do not support having this as a separate article (WP:NOT#INFO, WP:NOR) but some of the material may be appropriate in the articles on the individual aircraft. Guy (Help!) 16:12, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      Maximum reported B-17 & B-24 bomb loads[edit]

      Maximum reported B-17 & B-24 bomb loads (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

      Unencyclopedic essay at best; original research at worst. Indeed, on the article's talk page, the contributor gives his reason for writing it as the apparent absence of any such table in published secondary sources. An impressive piece of work, but not what I think one would expect to find in an encyclopedia. Rlandmann (talk) 07:07, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      The fact the the article doesn’t fit existing templates would seem secondary. I did not start out thinking that I would research a subject and publish the results in Wikipedia. I set out to ascertain whether the B-24 did the job being handled by the B-17 as well or better than the older design. Data on bomb loads and range are all over the place, and some reports claimed that the B-24 could carry a heavier bombload faster and farther than the B-17. In order to save other curious souls the trouble of trawling through endless costly books and articles bearing on the subject I decided to write the article in Wikipedia so that others could benefit from my experience. I have not, to my knowledge, presented my opinions but rather have tried to “set the table” with information, backed by excellent sources, for others to pick from.

      If anyone of those finding the article worthy of deletion would quote a sentence or two that is “unencyclopedic” I would be grateful. I’d like to grasp the reason for deleting something that I think makes Wikipedia better.Edweirdo (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 22:29, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

      You may not have set out to research but by the description of your actions, that is what you did do.GraemeLeggett (talk) 12:56, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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