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The result was speedy delete as blatant advertising by Tanthalas39. —David Eppstein (talk) 02:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lightspace[edit]

Lightspace (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable DaveWF (talk) 04:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As I noted I can't find any record of the term "lightspace" being used in this fashion except by the presumable author of this article. This appears to be jargon used exclusively within the context of Steve Mann's group at the University of Toronto. Also it kind of looks more like promotion of a software project than anything else. In my opinion this isn't a valuable contribution to Wikipedia. -- DaveWF (talk) 04:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. King of ♠ 06:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sri Rama Yogi[edit]

Sri Rama Yogi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

No evidence of notability of this person provided. No sources listed. You could make the argument that being a "spiritual giant" is a claim of notability, so I'm not going to try to speedy delete it. Anon editors have repeatedly made this article a travesty of NPOV. Failed PROD. eaolson (talk) 23:52, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Speedy delete a7, album by band w/no assertion of notability, WP:SNOW. NawlinWiki (talk) 19:58, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The First (RedEye)[edit]

The First (RedEye) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Contested prod. Article describes a self-released album that does not meet WP:MUSIC. TNX-Man 23:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. King of ♠ 06:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cuesta Verde[edit]

Cuesta Verde (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

completely non notable fictional place, this is the town from the poltergeist movies but it should simply be one sentence at the movie's article. this article is a few sentences mini stub with no potential, no sources, it is not verified and is not notable and it should therefore be deleted, quick. Myheartinchile (talk) 23:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. Non-admin closure by Skomorokh 05:43, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gateway City[edit]

Gateway City (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non notable fictional place, this is no gotham and it is completely unsourced and lacking any assertion of notability, not even verified. Myheartinchile (talk) 23:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

comment then why not merge with wonder woman?Myheartinchile (talk) 08:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Because it occurs in a shared universe, and while important to Wonder Woman, is not exclusive to her. As mentioned, it started out, for example, as a feature of Mr. Terrific comics in the Golden Age. Ford MF (talk) 16:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
comment, but the shared universe which is not verified, but i believe you, is not notable either, it can be mentioned in both wonder woman for which it is most notable and the other dude.Myheartinchile (talk) 21:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. King of ♠ 06:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Carbon Literacy[edit]

Carbon Literacy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Unsourced reference to a neologism. TNX-Man 23:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. King of ♠ 06:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lil Majer[edit]

Lil Majer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This article was deleted back in March with a PROD tag on it for failure to prove notability. There are no releases, no tours, and no reliable sources. The article got recreated today with the PROD tag still on it, meaning it was copied from somewhere with the tag attached. Besides being a GFDL violation since the previous edit history hasn't been restored, and therefore a copyvio, there is still no proof of notability. There are only 15 Google hits, none of them reliable. Corvus cornixtalk 23:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. GRBerry 19:37, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pine Cove (fictional town)[edit]

Pine Cove (fictional town) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non notable original research article that does not establish notability nor provide any references or sources or even external links on a fictional place used in a few works but that may or may not even be the same place. they likely simply share a name. this topic is a stub and has no future. Myheartinchile (talk) 23:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete --JForget 22:35, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Stan Neeleman[edit]

Stan Neeleman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Just an average professor DimaG (talk) 23:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

that's your opinion--I think it equally likely that those universities with the largest number of such chairs have the eminent professors to fill them--its rather the other way round, that because of the manner of funding, the most important of the state flagship universities have a deficiency of named chairs. (I expect this will probably be corrected as they all of them are trying to be more self-sufficient here, via one or another device. ) I'd say that this distinction is a pretty lear way of dividing up the full professors, for t hose who think for some reason that a full professors at a major research university aren't overwhelmingly likely be notable because of the documented recognition of status by their peers. Law is a difficult field for Wikipedia to find good criteria. DGG (talk)`


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The result was speedily deleted under WP:CSD#G3. (non-admin closure) Pyrospirit (talk · contribs) 01:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Texas ss[edit]

Texas ss (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Dubious article. Not vandalism per se, so I brought it here. Calvin 1998 (t-c) 23:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete no sources, not notable. Farside6 (talk) 23:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - sources are a bit weak --T-rex 23:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
SPEEDY DELETE per WP:NOBULLSHIT, obvious hoaxMyheartinchile (talk) 23:26, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. King of ♠ 07:01, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dusty Smiles and Heartbreak Cures[edit]

Dusty Smiles and Heartbreak Cures (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Album isn't the subject of any reliable sources. While I could find reviews and sources for her 2007 album Too Far Gone, there doesn't seem to be anything to say about this one. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters(Broken clamshellsOtter chirps) 22:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. King of ♠ 07:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rayo de luna (2008)[edit]

Rayo de luna (2008) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)
La Llamada (2008) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

I PROD'd this film article last time it was uploaded at Rayo de luna and it has reappeared again under a slightly different name. It's a 3 minute film released this year that doesn't assert notability, and the only reference provided is youtube. Delete. roleplayer 22:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: also included in this is La Llamada (2008), which I also PROD'd for the same reason at La Llamada. -- roleplayer 22:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Keep no other delete votes, article was substantially improved and nom indicated improvement. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 13:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Soda jerk[edit]

Soda jerk (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

All right, this article has been around for four years now. [5]. Time to go. BradV 21:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For those of you who are voting keep simply because there is no reason listed, this is what the article looked like when I nominated it. It was nothing but a dictionary entry, and there wasn't a source provided or any substantial improvements made to the article in 4 years. It was a pretty obvious delete when I nominated it, but a few editors have made substantial improvements and found sources for this since then. (I still can't believe it!) BradV 04:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Do you wish to withdraw the nomination then? --T-dot ( Talk/contribs ) 17:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
NO of course not, i meant the article's subject, dork =P —Preceding unsigned comment added by Myheartinchile (talkcontribs) 08:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Uhh - Doc - Did you mean keep? --T-dot ( Talk/contribs ) 20:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC) [reply]
Yes I did, silly me. Sorry, my mind wanders. Doc StrangeMailboxLogbook 13:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC) [reply]
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The result was No Consensus defaulting to Keep, disagreement over whether or not the article meets the notability guidelines. Davewild (talk) 08:34, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Darren Budd[edit]

Darren Budd (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Player fails notability at WP:Bio#Athletes having never played in a fully-professional league. However, previous PROD was contested because he has international futsal caps. I am led to believe that these too do not make a player notable --Jimbo[online] 21:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - a quick Google search brings up the Eastbourne Herald and the Argus, which are both independent newspapers, as well as the FA and Middlesbrough Futsal... GiantSnowman 00:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Ben Watson was deleted because it was deemed that futsal caps did not meet the criteria. --Jimbo[online] 16:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I don't think there's ever really been a proper discussion outside of that. A couple people in that AfD just seemed to disparage futsal as a sport. matt91486 (talk) 00:14, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 03:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Pocket Studios[edit]

The Pocket Studios (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non notable company, no notable sources that I can see. Only one 3rd party ref that does not seem notable/reliable. Previously deleted under CSD A7 but recreated a matter of hours later. Added a primarysources template but was removed several times by the article's single editor without suitable sources given. Delete. Rehevkor (talk) 21:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 03:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Vp.art[edit]

Vp.art (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable, new, art form (see edit history). ukexpat (talk) 20:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as nom. I nearly went for a speedy request, but thought maybe I was just being harsh. Think I was right the first time Ged UK (talk) 20:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - That was my initial thought, but it doesn't quite fit into any of the speedy categories as far as I can see. – ukexpat (talk) 21:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no claim of notability. sources are very weak --T-rex 23:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
keep - So these three censors decide what is worthy to be known and what is not? Do you have any particular reason - excepting conceit - to be in such a hurry to normalize the Wikipedia content? If you don't know and never heard about vp.art in the past, you have the vanity to decide that it's not worthy to be known by others. I think that above all you illustrate the weakness of Wikipedia, which is run by a handful of know-it-all, have-it-seen and have-been-there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sanaa06 (talkcontribs) 07:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Jasynnash2 didn't even read the references in the article. The article states that it has nothing to do with soundpainting as used in another Wikipedia article, while*Delete the books and other references used in the article are talking about experiments combing sound and painting. I sincerely wonder why this small group of censors are in such a hurry to delete an article which informs about a perhaps marginal form of art, but one that is new and has a real potential. Is it vanity or opinion streamlining? A significant fact: NONE of you is even interested in art! At least you don't think it worthwhile mentioning in your profile, where you list yet dozens of rather uninteresting hobbies. --Sanaa06 (talk) 09:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Actually, I'm attempting to Assume Good Faith but, accusing people of censorship just because they don't agree with you is a bit.... to assume that people aren't interested in art simply because we don't agree with you is a mistake (just because someone doesn't have a mention of something in their "profile" doesn't mean they aren't interested or that they lack knowledge in that area. You need to review the policies and guidelines around notability and verifiability and discuss the reasons you feel the article deserves inclusion based on those facts. Simply accusing those people that disagree with you of censorship doesn't help the article, yourself, or wikipedia in any way, shape, or form. I've also changed your second "keep" to "comment" for clarification purposes. Jasynnash2 (talk) 12:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment You're missing the point. You just said yourself that the references in the article are about something else, not the article itself. Ged UK (talk) 10:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Reply If you'd taken the time to check the references of the article, you would have noticed that they are not about something else, but about artists and scientists who are all working in this field. Unfortunately you are neither experts, nor are you even interested in the matter of art. You are only interested in petty censorship against unconventional information.--Sanaa06 (talk) 11:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And again. Not helping the article or the subject. Please discuss the articles merits or lack thereof using the policies and guidelines of wikipedia. And for the record I'm very interested in the subject and art in general. Jasynnash2 (talk) 15:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
reply Then why don't you mention your interest in art in your profile, you mention fireflies, blueberries and white chocolate?
Note: Second Keep from article creator, whose only edits have been to the article and here. Johnbod (talk) 15:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It wasn't me who stuck it through, if you look at the history. Johnbod (talk) 15:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please see Wikipedia:Afd#How_to_discuss_an_AfD. You've expressed your "Keep" sentiment earlier in the discussion. And although AFD is not a vote, participants in the discussion are not to express these non-votes more than once. You should prefix your comments with '''comment''' -- Whpq (talk) 15:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
PS I just wondered how many of the 2.4 million articles in the EN Wikipedia got so many censor comments? Well, you probably think you time has been spent worthwhile. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sanaa06 (talkcontribs) 16:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete per WP:CRYSTAL and WP:RS. PeterSymonds (talk) 15:19, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Happy Place[edit]

The Happy Place (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

A CSI: Crime Scene Investigation television episode that will not air until September 2008. Fails WP:CRYSTAL. The reference is to a fansite that states that the episode information is only rumour. I originally prodded this article, but the prod tag was removed by an anonymous editor without comment. Bláthnaid 20:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Merge to Gateways as already seems to have been merged there by the article creator. Davewild (talk) 08:41, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mordechai Suchard[edit]

Mordechai Suchard (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Not notable, simply states creation of an organisation, but makes no assertion to that organisations notability, and seems to exist either only as a plug for the person, organisation, or both Ged UK (talk) 20:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gateways will be expanded -- it is two days old! Give it some time to expand and increasing its length by combining articles that each have their own merit to exist because of article length will be a moot issue. DRosenbach (Talk | Contribs) 13:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also fails as a serious rabbi -- are you joking? What is a serious rabbi? Is he a clown-type of rabbi? Your comments are inflammatory -- surely a violation of WP:NPOV as they at best lack fairness of tone and at most incite derision. Please keep your comments civil.
He is the executive director and driving force behind an organization that affects thousands of individuals a year through its programs and lectures series. He is the subject of a number of articles, including at least one in The New York Times. Information will be added to the article as it expands and citations will similarly accrue. DRosenbach (Talk | Contribs) 13:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment In addition to being the founding rabbi and spiritual director of Gateways, he also serves on the responsa board of Ask The Rabbi. I think he passed the "serious rabbi" test pretty easily. Bstone (talk) 14:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
All that Also fails as a serious rabbi means is that he is simply not a notable rabbi beyond organizing and running Gateways. He is not known for his scholarship and there is essentially nothing in the media or articles that claim he is anything more than an organizational/admistrative or "executive director" rabbi. Similarly not all Aish HaTorah or Ohr Somayach or Chabad rabbis get listed with articles as they too are just functionaries and are not serious rabbis and this does not mean they are clowns. Kindly assume good faith. Thank you. IZAK (talk) 00:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps you should review the meaning of words prior to using them -- words are, for the most part, objective. As brought from a dictionary, serious can refer to being deeply interested or involved, which I contend Rabbi Suchard is for taking the time, energy and effort to start Gateways. In fact, he even meets the criteria of being of such character or quality as to appeal to the expert, the connoisseur, or the sophisticate, as indicated by Gateways particular appeal to collegiates, young professionals and discerning Jews of all levels, giving them particularly focused direction on such things as Judaism's authenticity and the existence of the Oral Torah. If you had simply meant of considerable size or scope; substantial, I was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming both good faith and that you are discerning enough to use a word that both conveys your intent as well as avoids ambiguity. I would hardly agree that serious denotes substantiality over frivolousness. DRosenbach (Talk | Contribs) 02:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
DRosenbach: At this time Rabbis Suchard, Rietti and Becher are the creators and managers of Gateways and without them Gateways cannot exist at this time. Even the information "cited" in the article/s is mostly from Gateways brochures. Wikipedia need not host seperate articles about them, when all the information can be combined into the Gateways article itself. I am not advocating the loss of this information, but that it be moved to the main Gateways article where it belongs. Perhaps sometime in the future, when many more articles and sources emerge, they will merit their own biographies but for now Rabbis Suchard, Rietti and Becher and Gateways are one and the same. IZAK (talk) 07:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
IZAK: At this time, Rabbis Rietti and Becher are independant entities. Gateways exists because of them, not [[]vice vera]]. They are each accomplished authors and lecturers, notable in their field of fighting American Jewish assimilation and developing and presenting course material for lecture series focused on establishing the authenticity of classical Jewish thought, philosophy, vision and ritual practice. Your assertion that this information belongs in the Gateways article is inaccurate. These articles are clearly expandable -- they do not currently project the full expanse of information relating to their subjects, and policy delineated both here and here dictates that they be allowed to maintain themselves for further expansion.
As for Rabbi Suchard, he is the foudner of Gateways. He is notable as previously substantiated, and currently supersubstantiated by the sudden switch of focus of your siege to issues relating to bredth of coverage. Once again, as dictated by policy (both here and here), it complies with proper form to allow a 3-day old article to expand. DRosenbach (Talk | Contribs) 13:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If, as according to you, Gateways is nothing without its rabbis then perhaps its article should be nominated for deletion instead. You cannot have it both ways. If the rabbis are what makes Gateways what it is then that is where they belong as they have devoted the last decade of their fairly young lives to it and it is the culmination of their careers at this time. They are happy and successful at Gateways and it does not look like they are leaving it any time soon. For the creator of the Gateways article it would have been wiser to put in all the comprehensive information into it, about its founding director Rabbi Suchard and about its two leading full time employees Rabbis Rietti and Becher who work for Gateways and Rabbi Suchard. Then, as the information about them and their whole operation would have beeen expanded with more sources, separate biographies about the rabbis could be an outgrowth down the line. It makes no sense writing one article about a small institution and then creating individual articles about three of its four full time rabbis. Therefore, the current approach of writing up separate articles about the organization and three of its rabbis is redundant, even if the rabbis have a somewhat broader resume, they are presently strongly indentified with, and work exclusively for, Gateways, AFAIK. IZAK (talk) 22:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But they don't work exclusively for Gateways. Perhaps Rabbi Suchard, as the executive director, has only one job, but Rabbis Becher and Rietti have multiple responsibilities with multiple organizations. They are both on staff of the Mesorah Center for Continuing Jewish Education. What is this determination at eradication of articles whose subjects do not meet your criteria for notability -- i.e. that YOU do not think they are notable, when clearly, everyone who is familiar with them does believe them to be notable, and rightfully so? DRosenbach (Talk | Contribs) 16:52, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
DRosenbach: Personal views are not what matters as that would be a violation of NPOV. What is important is to see how these rabbis measure up with others, as for example in Category:Orthodox rabbis and if you will look it over you will notice the significant and notable stature of almost all rabbis there. It would have been wiser of you to include all the material about Rabbis Suchard, Rietti and Becher in the Gateways article first and then to have sought some sort of consensus with editors at WP:JUDAISM to evaluate the validity of creating separate articles for the rabbis of Gateways, instead of in effect efect creating four articles about the same subject. IZAK (talk) 05:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But that's just it -- these are not my personal views! These are independant sources citing their deep involvement and notability in the Jewish outreach movement. DRosenbach (Talk | Contribs) 12:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

*Merge per IZAK. Bhaktivinode (talk) 17:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A New York Times article would be nice, but I don't know where you saw that mentioned. In lieu of that, I have provided citations from two articles from the Jewish Week, which has a weekly circulation of 70,000 homes. DRosenbach (Talk | Contribs) 02:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. This page has been subject to numerous !votes from new editors and anonymous IPs, most of whom are voting keep. However, sources have since been added, asserting notability. His claim to fame is as a published author, and whether or not it is well presented, it is clear that he has some notability in that area. Now for the deletion debate itself. Going by the number of keeps, there is an overwhelming majority wishing to retain this article. However, this is not what decides it, and several did not add helpful comments to the debate, so have been discarded. However, some of the delete votes were also unsubstantial. When there is notability, and there is a chance of improvement, the article should be kept and improved. This is conditional that the article actually will be improved, and not left. I urge those involved to work together to establish a solid article, with more sources. That way, it would satisfy our policies, and may avoid a third deletion debate. PeterSymonds (talk) 15:37, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why the lucky stiff[edit]

Why the lucky stiff (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

There do not appear to be any reliable sources with which to verify the content of the article. Regardless of how well regarded the person is in a community "If no reliable, third-party sources can be found for an article topic, Wikipedia should not have an article on it." (from WP:V). All the sources I can find are blogs or personal websites of people and companies he is associated with, these cannot be considered a reliable base for an article. Guest9999 (talk) 20:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete per WP:OR and WP:N. PeterSymonds (talk) 15:42, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gerasimos Kalogerakis[edit]

Gerasimos Kalogerakis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

The article has been previously deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gerasimos Kalogerakis. Article does not seem to show much notability. Captain panda 20:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedily deleted per WP:CSD A7. Article was a listing of the contents of a series of music mix discs or mix tapes distributed over the internet through file sharing. No indication of how this might be a notable subject. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 14:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative Times[edit]

Alternative Times (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Article is a list of file info for a series of internet mix tapes. Only one page links to it. William Graham talk 19:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was redirect to supergalaxy as likely search term for different targets. There seems to be good consensus that the use of the term "Super Galaxy" as presented in this article is largely inappropriate for a standalone entry, but there are also reasoned arguments that some of the content may be appropriate in use elsewhere. The edit history is preserved so that merging of material can be performed as needed. Shereth 22:33, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Super Galaxy[edit]

Super Galaxy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Contested prod. 'Super Galaxy' is not an established term in astronomy and has no well-defined meaning. For example, while the popular news articles linked in the article agree with - and appear to be the source of - the definition given (a large galaxy), the peer-reviewed papers - which were added recently - are mostly old works and use the term in a completely different context (as a description of large-scale structure in the local universe, outside of our Galaxy). Neither definition is widely used in astronomy today. Cosmo0 (talk) 19:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


If you can support that claim, (it may be true, I don't know), then that information is added to the article. If the term "super galaxy" has no well defined meaning, as you say, then that information is added to the article.

So now, rather than the simple "lets delete something", we have an article that informs the curious reader that this phrase has been used in various ways, that the meaning seems to have changed over time, and that currently it is not clear what it means.

That is called knowledge, where rather than finding "no entry", somebody looking up "super galaxy" finds information, not a blank page.

Then there is the other issue, that "super galaxy" is currently being used as shorthand, to describe the C-5M Super Galaxy - the US Air Force's leading cargo aircraft.

Which I was aware of when I created the page. I don't know how to make one of those multiple meaning pages.

But by all means, I understand how easy it is to delete stuff. It takes effort to create and edit entries. Deleting is quick and easy.

But reality is decided by consensus, so I'm sure that the wikiality of the issue will win out. (insert laugh emoticon here, so everybody knows I am joking)

I've never watched a deletion discussion before. How long can you wait before you push the delete button? Is there a hurry? Is this an important issue? Where are the rules regarding such a pressing issue? Thanks. FX (talk) 20:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

FX's very long comment[edit]

Arguments?

"FX, your arguments are compelling, but you really need to provide more info and flesh the article out if it is going to stand a chance"

I was unaware that argument and debate were required for articles in WIKIPEDIA. I also read that one should leave things unfinished, so that others could take part in creating and editing articles. The thought that people who know nothing about a subject, who won't read sources, or do any research, should have a say in creating an article, or worse, in trying to delete it, is hilarious.

It is one of the things people who make fun of WIKIPEDIA point out. That reality should be decided by a vote, rather than science, research, and evidence.

The criteria for an article is verifiability, evidence, good sources, published articles, credible information, yadda yadda yadda

If this is so, then the criteria for deleting an article should be far higher. Right?

"The article as it currently exists does little more than provide a definition of the term, and several sources of information that provide mention of the term in passing."

True. It is the start of an article. I had hoped there were other people interested in astronomy, who might add to the page. Of course this may take some time. And effort. To find people wanting to delete the page, to argue the term "super galaxy" doesn't exist, is so absurd I think it must be a prank.

Nobody can be that petty, that small minded and ignorant. It must be a joke, somebody is bored, looking for a little fun. I find it funny in the extreme.

Of course, if it isn't a joke, (say it is, please), then the massive amount of evidence and the history of the term must be presented.

And yet, if this isn't a joke, and people who know nothing about a subject have the power to not just vandalize a page, but delete it entirely, then why bother? That would make WIKIPEDIA a joke, and not worth bothering with.

And all the references to super galaxies that already exist will have to be purged.

Like -

Then there are super galaxy clusters which are hundreds of galaxies merged together due to cosmic collisions.

from this page, episode 16

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episode_list_of_The_Universe_%28TV_series%29#Season_Two_Episodes

And

The nuclei of the two galaxies are joining to become one Super Galaxy.

from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antennae_galaxies

I could go on and on. Then there are the print articles I linked to on the page, which show some of the history of the term. Including the award given to de Vaucouleurs, who was published in The Astronomical Journal, 1953, for his theory and discovery 20 years before anyone else. (This information is in the references provided)

Or the theory by Shapely, The Super Galaxy Hypothesis (1930) http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1930HarCi.350....1S

The term is used in Applied Mathematics and Computation Volume 139, Issue 1, 1 July 2003, Pages 23-36 By E.E Escultura, in his article The flux theory of gravitation XVIII: macro and quantum gravity, cosmo waves and applications

It is used here Deconvolution in High-Energy Astrophysics: Science, Instrumentation, and Methods (2004)

The bright blue spot in the center of the image is due to X-ray emission from hot gas falling into a giant black hole at the center of the super galaxy, Perseus A.

http://ba.stat.cmu.edu/journal/2006/vol01/issue02/issue02.pdf#page=2

I could go on and on of course.

The term is used by NASA, in Science, in Nature, in Astronomy, etc etc

examples:

measurable structure arisingfrom the local supergalaxy. .... of the local supergalaxy it is expected that the background increases by an ... http://nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19670029045_1967029045.pdf

The role of galaxy destruction by merging, leading to a new supergalaxy, has been underappreciated until recently. http://gsfc.nasa.gov/Sect20/A4.html

Title: The local supergalaxy as the structured aspect of a universal background of ... Abstract: Local supergalaxy as structured aspect of X-ray background ... http://rst.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=505925&id=4&qs=N%3D4294936922%26Ns%3DHarvestDate%7C1

hypothetical Local supergalaxy. In the field of the theory of cosmic ray ..... Local supergalaxy. A. http://rst.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19670024503_1967024503.pdf


"local supergalaxy" is likely. to. be anisotropic in X-rays as well... http://rst.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780013097_1978013097.pdf


They even have a picture of one here:

This X-ray image shows a central radiating mass (an elliptical supergalaxy that resulted from merger of multiple galaxies) and a huge cloud of glowing hot gas that is interpreted as under direct control by this Dark Matter, which is estimated to be equivalent to a hundred trillion times the mass of the Sun.

http://rst.gsfc.nasa.gov/Sect20/A9.html


But does it matter? If somebody with no knowledge of something can delete it, what is the point? Just delete anything you don't understand, or know anything about. Let me know how that works out for you.

Now if you just want more information, a longer article, more references, that is another story. What is it you want?

And in what Universe do imagine reality is decided by vote?

Don't worry, the laugh this gave me means it is all good.FX (talk) 01:38, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

one more thing

If you really want a better article, putting something on the delete list is about as bad a way to go about getting one, that you could possibly come up with. No kidding. I can show you a hundred articles that have false information, no sources, or terrible writing. None of them are on the deletion list.

I'm not sure if it appears anywhere on WIKIPEDIA guidelines or suggestion, but it should. Assume good will

If you don't know what that means, I feel sorry for you. It comes from the well, and it is important.FX (talk) 01:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Jasynnash2. I was adding a comment at the same time as you (see below). What does AfD consensus mean? What is a DAB page? What is AfD? Between the jargon, and the wiki software, I'm pretty sure there is some major miscommunication going on. I don't understand half of what some people are trying to say. And while articles require an extreme level of documentation, it seems opinions don't require any at all. That seems to be a terrible oversight.FX (talk) 11:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Start by clicking on Help. It's in the interation box on the left. They have a Frequently Asked Question Section as well as a number of other topics quite plainly listed. I agree it isn't all organised to the best effect but, taking the time to look around never hurts. DAB is short for (a word I can't ever spell correctly) which means the sort of page that lists things (like you asked about above somewhere). AfD consensus simply means consensus at the Articles for Deletion page. We discuss things here based as much as possible on the policies and guidelines which are readily available (again check out the help pages -or- read some of the things that people have already linked to above). Want more help in understanding and finding things than ask people politely in the appropriate places and the majority of the users on here will be glad to point you in the right direction. Jasynnash2 (talk) 12:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Added more references and information to article. FX (talk) 04:35, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't much of a discussion when nobody responds to the points raised. I did note some high level vandalism of the page in question. What do these sort of wikiality discussions get, in user participation? 4 or 5 votes?

Where is the voting system? Is it a secret ballot? How are the votes verified?

This is a game, right? You can't be serious. FX (talk) 10:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for using the header here, I just realized how that works, and why it screws things up on this kind of page. I don't think long term users of wikipedia have any idea how confusing it is, or how much wikijargon is used, that makes no sense at all. And worse, there are no entries for the jargon, making it almost impossible to understand what some people are trying to say.FX (talk) 10:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Continuing the discussion[edit]

Actually, as far as I can tell, the only consistent use of the term is to describe the system of galaxies around our own Galaxy - a usage that seems to have been started by Harlow Shapley, who believed that the entire Universe was a single galaxy (dubbed the Super Galaxy after it became clear that it extended beyond the main body of the Milky Way). In any case, it's an obselete usage that survives only in the term Supergalactic plane (which no longer has an associated noun 'Supergalaxy'). It has occasionally been used in the literature to described individual clusters of galaxies (e.g. Rood & Sastry 1971) but not in a systematic way. As for the standard form: there is none, because it is not a standard term. It's an ad hoc creation used to describe various individual objects that are in some way 'more/bigger than just a galaxy'. Many of the links in the article relate to galaxy mergers but, as is made clear in the links and in the Galaxy formation and evolution article, most large galaxies are the result of mergers and so there is no need for a special term to describe them. Cosmo0 (talk) 13:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Furthermore, for example, this reference (which is cited in the article, as of now) uses the term 'super galaxy' in the headline but not in the story itself. That seems like a headline writer's description of the article, not a recognized astronomical term. ASHill (talk | contribs) 16:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all the reasoned input.[edit]

I now know more about the term "super galaxy" than I ever thought possible. I agree with the one comment from 70.51.8.167, on the supergalaxy:talk page, "This is wikipedia, it should be super galaxy, not Super Galaxy, according to wikipedia naming conventions."

Isn't that a valid point? The article should be deleted on those grounds alone. Or better yet, redirected to super galaxy, which is either a historical article, noting the different uses in the past, which would include references to several historic astronomers, as well as links to other modern terms, or a redirect to a list of astronomical terms no longer used. That a term is used in several ways, and the meaning has changed, are both part of our human knowledge.

I also found in wikipedia guidelines that articles should be fit to print, which would be another reason to roll the definition and history of the term into one page of definitions, rather than taking up a lot of space for one term like that. The history of astronomy is replete with terms that changed, and are no longer in common use, as we discovered more about them. It's funny, but some of them are still in use, even though they are wrong.

In even more irony, the online encyclopedias/dictionaries that include the word wikiality, use the example of scientist deciding by consensus that Pluto is no longer a planet, as an example of wikiality in the real world. Which is hilarious in this context. What the term 'super-galaxy' means is being decided by discussion. Well, actually that isn't quite true. The talk page for the article is the place to decide that. But rather than use that talk page, or discuss the term, somebody decided it had to be deleted. Leading to this discussion.

Which is against the guidelines for deletions, according to the Adf pages.

Discussions about an article are to be done on the talk page of an article. This has not been done.

Unlike an article, requesting a deletion does not require any sources, references or publications to back it up. As witnessed by this conversation.

Most of the reasons for deletion actually add to the information about the term, rather than explain why there should be no entry at all.

But enough. I already voted for deletion, with the caveats included.

Notes on supergalaxy. While researching this I discovered the term can mean a biclycle Dawessupergalaxy http://www.dawescycles.com/dawes/super-galaxy.htm, a video game Super Galaxy Invader by Bandai, a movie theater, galaxy theaters calls their large theaters super galaxies, the C5 transport of course, as well as a very large galaxy, created by multiple galaxies merging

"More information about the central interior of this developing supergalaxy, and about regions of active star formation appears in this image:"

http://rst.gsfc.nasa.gov/Sect20/A4.html

And of course I also learned why WIKIPEDIA works like it does. FX (talk) 17:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supergalaxy

Wow. Now I know even more. A sewing machine? Who knew? The short description that leads to the article in question, actually does a pretty good job of summing it up. FX (talk) 02:22, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In that case, the entry for Galaxy would be two sentences long. FX (talk) 06:28, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect: The fact that the term is used for all those uses unrelated to the alleged astronomical term does not strengthen the case against deletion, in my opinion. In fact, the widely ranging usage is evidence that the term super galaxy has no specific meaning that can be appropriate for an encyclopedia article. I think that the supergalaxy page (a disambiguation) is more appropriate, with the scientific content regarding large galaxies in galaxy. Therefore, I change my preference to redirect to supergalaxy. ASHill (talk | contribs) 21:36, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. HiDrNick! 13:27, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Satwant Kaur Dogra[edit]

Satwant Kaur Dogra (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Seemingly autobiographical article on a non-notable politician. I was unable to find any sources on the subject apart from a single story in a local paper. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 19:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Week Keep in the event of references add. The article needs a cleanup,wikify and more material -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 13:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Can your provide us with possible references ? Googling apparently gave Nil results -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 10:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I meant "local" as opposed to "national"; I couldn't even find circulation figures in the paper's website. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather see an article improved than deleted any day—otherwise I would have PRODded it or brought it to AfD sooner—but I am still not convinced that this constitutes "significant coverage". Fvasconcellos (t·c) 13:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Some cleanup done by me... (Diff) I leave the article to 'fate' ;) -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 13:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
comment, state/provincial-level politicians don't need significant coverage, its significant that she was even elected, just as any state senator or assembly person in any American state is notable by default. Now on top of that is quite clear that she also has plenty of non-trivial news coverage in multiple reliable sources i.e. newspapers.Myheartinchile (talk) 19:46, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. There is no claim in the article that she is a member of an elected assembly, just that she is a leader of a political party (with no indication of the level at which she is a leader), a local trade union organisation and a state-wide NGO. Maybe some US editors are getting a bit confused here; in an Indian context "Congress" is a political party, not a legislature. Phil Bridger (talk) 13:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
When I nominated the article, I couldn't verify that she was indeed an elected state-level politician, and I still haven't found Ms. Dogra in the Election Commission of India's lists of successful candidates for recent J&K elections. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 12:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was withdrawn by nominator. Bduke (talk) 01:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tennessee Eastman Hiking and Canoeing Club[edit]

The result was withdrawn by nominator, per concensus. However, I plan within the coming days to review each of these articles and nominate at least some of them for deletion. If you have any interest in saving an article listed here, keep it on your watchlist. Hellno2 (talk) 01:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC) (non-admin close)[reply]

Tennessee Eastman Hiking and Canoeing Club (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable organization. Does not contain references to meet WP:Notability requirements, only external links to its own site or those advertising the club. I also added the following articles to the nomination for the following similar reasons:

Triple Cities Hiking Club (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Royal Canoe Club (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
British Canoe Union (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
St Andrews University Canoe Club (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Welsh Canoeing Association (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Burloak Canoe Club (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Forth Canoe Club (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Cardiff Canoe Club (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
New Hampshire Outing Club (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Manchester Canoe Club (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Idroscalo Club (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Hellno2 (talk) 19:30, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete per WP:NPOV, and possible WP:OR and WP:BLP. PeterSymonds (talk) 15:47, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Protestant Child Abuse (Renamed: Northern Ireland Protestant child abuse allegations controversy)[edit]

Protestant Child Abuse (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Seems like a hit piece. Neutralitytalk 19:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: There is child abuse in different places, and this article shows that it exists somewhere where others may not otherwise expect it. Sebwite (talk) 21:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • None of the references relate to the stated topic of the article, however. What is this "Protestant Church" of which you speak? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
comment: The renaming appears to be at least a small step in the right direction. Perhaps rename it further to Child abuse scandals in churches in Northern Ireland or something, if it is to be defined as a regional thing that involves some churches. Perhaps mentioning in passing in the main article that the church(es) involved were associated with Protestant denominations rather than Catholic (with appropriate links to related articles), and clean up any POV-pushing that carries the "well they do it too!" soapboxing attack tone, and we might have a neutral article worth preserving. Ideally the article should evenly cover general child abuse scandals in the churches, regardless of the Denomination or branch of Christianity. --T-dot ( Talk/contribs ) 21:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is more likely that such a title can work; in The Troubles context Protestant has a specific (and mostly political) meaning. Unfortunately, the one reliable source in the article is totally irrelevant to that context, meaning the article demonstrates no reliable sources. So unless it also receives a major rewrite with sourcing, it still needs to be deleted. GRBerry 22:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. --T-dot ( Talk/contribs ) 22:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. PeterSymonds (talk) 15:21, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of Norwegian Pakistanis[edit]

List of Norwegian Pakistanis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Delete unreferenced subjective list. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete per WP:MUSIC. PeterSymonds (talk) 21:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Savior Of Music Returns[edit]

The Savior Of Music Returns (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Future album release, fails WP:CRYSTAL. TNX-Man 18:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep per unanimity of responses. Non-admin closure by Skomorokh 05:51, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Steve Williams (Singer/songwriter/pianist)[edit]

Steve Williams (Singer/songwriter/pianist) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

I declined a speedy tag, but I don't believe this subject meets notability criteria; namely, WP:MUSIC or WP:BAND. Tan | 39 18:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Could you confirm whether Steve's collaboration with Beth Rowley, currently a very significant artist, and his work with Jamelia meet the criteria for notability? And if not, why not? Could you give some indication of what would make him "significant" if this doesn't. Would his broadcast on Radio 2, playing live for the Paul Jones Blues Hour, count if I could get verification?

Many thanks

Did you spend any time researching the policies I posted above? You should read them and use them as a basis for your arguments. Specifically, read this list of criteria and see if this artist meets the criteria. As I read them, he does not. Tan | 39 19:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, point 9. "Has won or placed in a major music competition." Steve won in the UK Song Writing Competition in 1994 with his song "Need Your Love" and his song "Corners" was a finalist in the BBC's Sold on Song competition in 2005, so he has won or been placed twice in two major music competitions.

Incidentally, does being the son of someone famous qualify you as notable?

Point nine might work. Let's get some input from other editors. And as to your last question, definitely not. Tan | 39 19:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I thought. Just curious as to why Ben Castle's entry hasn't been deleted. Steve seems to have as much going for him as Ben does, except for not being the son of somebody famous.

I have now found an archived web link to the results of the 2004 UK Song Writing Competition and will add it to the article in a mo.

No, that is a different Steve Williams. I'd be happy to change the title....just felt the one I went with was a better description of who he is and what he does. Will also clean up the article.....was taking a lead from other similar articles there.

Splendid, thanks. Would prefer to keep the singer/songwriter title though if possible.....it's a more accurate reflection of what he does, especially in light of his songwriting competition achievements being the basis for his inclusion.


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The result was speedy delete as cut and paste of copyright text nancy (talk) 18:30, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fighting Sikh extremists in Canada[edit]

Fighting Sikh extremists in Canada (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Personal essay, not encyclopedic. Rob Banzai (talk) 18:27, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Withdrawn; I'll delete the article, and maybe transwiki it to wiktionary if any better sources turn up in the future. · AndonicO Engage. 09:08, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hand salsa[edit]

Hand salsa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Dicdef and partial how-to; sources include Urban Dictionary and other dictionary sites, as well as sources not really related to the term (more like how-tos on cleaning "hand salsa" off pianos and stuff). Ten Pound Hammer and his otters(Broken clamshellsOtter chirps) 18:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete as not passing WP:PROF and WP:BLP; no reliable sources. Bearian (talk) 21:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Professor Sa'ad Medhat[edit]

Professor Sa'ad Medhat (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This is written like his resume, and is definitely advertising, his notability is also questionable. Google search: Sa'ad Medhat...... Dendodge .. TalkHelp 17:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There. Now it's not a resume anymore. This conversation should be focusing on notability, not material that is easily deleted and sourced. Tan | 39 19:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yep it would require gutting, which I was going to do, but someone beat me to it. Now just needs expansion. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 19:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete per WP:N and WP:V. Also possible WP:HOAX. PeterSymonds (talk) 15:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sabahad[edit]

Sabahad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Looks like a hoax. Google for sabahad martial arts turns up nothing. BradV 17:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy Delete G10 (negative unsourced BLP, possible hoax). Vassyana (talk) 17:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Visconti triplets[edit]

Visconti triplets (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable article, is unreferenced, I found no sources [9] that could really be used to improve this article. Steve Crossin (talk)(email) 17:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Merge to JSON as already seems to have been merged there. Davewild (talk) 08:47, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

JSONP[edit]

JSONP (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable software function. Fails WP:N Could be merged with JSON but I don't have the detailed knowledge to do so. ukexpat (talk) 16:26, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I don't believe there is enough information in the article now to merge in with JSON. Arienh4(Talk) 17:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete This article has been given a lot of time. It still lacks evidence of real world notability and adequate sourcing. Spartaz Humbug! 21:39, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Titans (Crash of the Titans)[edit]

Titans (Crash of the Titans) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Article has been tagged with notability and sourcing concerns since October 2007 and tagged for cleanup since May 2008. A prod was removed mid-May stating that these discussions are usually controversial. Since then, the article still fails notability and verifiability. It cites no reliable sources from which to draw information. I would also suggest that it also fails WP:FICT, as notability for the individual characters or character grouping is not demonstrated through adequete sources. Finally, per WP:NOT, this article approaches the content in an in universe perspective and would be more suitable for a gaming wiki.Gazimoff WriteRead 16:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • As it already is a disambiguation, it is not a good search term, though I do notice that there's a few other pages that point here, redirection makes sense only since the term's been used. However it is a good idea to have this as Titan disamb, which I notice it is already there, just needs redirection to the best section in that article. --MASEM 19:41, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The content is covered in the Crash of the Titans - one-game characters, especially in a game that wasn't very well-received commercially or critically, don't need their own list of characters. For precedence, both lists of characters for Mario & Luigi were deleted, despite both receiving great reviews and selling very well. - A Link to the Past (talk) 05:51, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • We have lots of content that overlaps from what article to another, but it's no reason to outright delete say the article on Normandy, just because it's covered in the article on World War II, now if all of this article is in fact covered elsewhere, then we would redirect, but not delete. Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 19:58, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please do not compare a list of characters in a video game to a real-life REGION. Most of the content in the list of characters is awful, and guide content. - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:37, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • And how exactly do you intend to fix it? The article needs to be completely rewritten. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not to be rude, but since you're the only one so far who believes the article should be kept, why don't you WP:SOFIXIT? As it says, "If you see something that can be improved, do not hesitate to do it yourself." I doubt any of the folks here in favor of deletion are going to fix it, or think that it can be fixed. --IllaZilla (talk) 07:57, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The burden of evidence is on the editor wishing to retain material, not the editor wishing to delete it. Instead of harassing me, go fix it yourself. Tottering Blotspurs (talk) 20:20, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Because it would be nice if others helped per User:Fresheneesz/Don't Destroy, especially when the article is consistent with What Wikipedia is. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 20:57, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You can't cite user pages as evidence for your case... such a concept as "Don't Destroy" basically says that any AfD is destructive. And AGAIN you cited a user page. And regardless, even if we did look at Don't Destroy, the people voted Delete for a number of reasons, which were not addressed (outside of apathy towards them). The people who voted Delete are not obligated to tighten their belt and go to work on the article that they don't think needs to exist. And quite frankly, you've never done anything to address problems with notability or sources. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:16, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Of course I can, as we cite user essays all the time in discussions when we believe they present compelling arguments. "Don't destroy" obviously does not include hoaxes, libels, or copy vios that I definitely agree should be deleted, but refers to articles like this one that do not have insurmountable problems. The people who "it's not a vote" to delete are encouraged even by the deletion instructions to first see if they can improve the articles in question. And quite frankly, I've done a great deal to address the concerns about notability and sources. One can ignore that a banana is a banada, but it doesn't chance the fact that it is indeed a banada just as they fact is that I have added sources that do augment the article's notability. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 01:42, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Essays are irrelevant, when the arguments to delete are policy based. If people spent more time writing policy compliant articles instead of writing whiny essays about articles being deleted the problems would solve themselves. Tottering Blotspurs (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 10:43, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Essay are relevant when the arguments to keep are policy based. If people spent more time working to improve the articles than trying to delete them we would have more good and featured articles. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 16:48, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Demonstrate that they meet WP:N with non-trivial reliable references, and I will be convinced. Until then my vote stays delete. Merely repeating (what I read before I made my original post) that they are "titular aspects of a notable game" doesn't make the "titular aspects" individually notable. And you can say that they are "titular aspects of a notable game" a thousand times, but saying that doesn't make them so (or, more importantly, prove that is the case). --Craw-daddy | T | 23:44, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
See for example the multiple sources found here. There are non-trivial reliable references there. Merely repeating that they aren't notable, does not mean they aren't. To be specific, such references as this are reliable secondary sources that focuses entirely on characters indicated in the article. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 23:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Which of these sources show that Stench or Scorporilla are notable? (Just as a couple of examples.) Could you point those out to me please? The mere number of Google hits tells me nothing about the notability of these characters (not the game, but the characters). --Craw-daddy | T | 23:59, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Articles like this in which a game maker is asked, "How did you come up with characters such as Scorporilla, Ratcicle, Parafox and Shellephant?" And the game maker replies, "First of all, we wanted to create characters that were fun and fresh but also empowering to control, so we incorporated a few different iconic creatures together into one super-mutant-animal – like combining a scorpion and a gorilla to make Scorporilla." Thus, coupled wit the preview source listed above, we actually do have coverage of these specific characters and their creation/inspiration in multiple reliable sources. Obviously, articles titled "Crash of the Titans - A Bestiary: Five of the twisted denizens of Crash's new adventure" focus directly on the characters. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 00:02, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Question - Are these characters, or enemies/power ups (does the main character take control of them a'la Little Nemo)? Hewinsj (talk) 17:33, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That appears to be the case. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:50, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete per WP:N and WP:RS. PeterSymonds (talk) 15:54, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

2007 Latin American Tour[edit]

2007 Latin American Tour (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Not notable Tenacious D Fan (talk) 16:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

deleting would be a stupid decision. OK, there's the sources issue, but THE TOUR DID EXIST ahaha.... so, let's find them and end this thing. its a respectable 10-gig tour (with huge significance to the band's future), it should have an article. i don't know how to do the source thing, but go to www.wikicoldplay.com and theres a 'wiki' article with this tour practically with the same content as this. 190.245.134.176 (talk) 21:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep.  —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 08:43, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ColorZilla[edit]

ColorZilla (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable browser extension. 69.158.111.97 (talk) 16:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I think this should also be extended to a large portion of Category:Mozilla extensions, with the exception of truly notable extensions, such as StumbleUpon and Google Toolbar. 69.158.104.240 (talk) 15:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete per WP:MUSIC. PeterSymonds (talk) 22:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Two Five[edit]

Two Five (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Not notable enough to have an article. Shadyaftrmathgunit (talk) 16:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy Delete. Upon further review, I concur that the article makes unsourced claims about living persons, particularly accusing someone of murder. That makes this a candidate for a CSD G10 deletion, as a negative unsourced BLP. Given that I participated, below, and that I blocked the article's creator, I'd wait for an uninvolved admin to do the honors - except that it's a WP:BLP violation, as noted. UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 18:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chiacig crime family[edit]

Chiacig crime family (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Same reason as Alfredo Chiacig, and the main editor, User:Rico-rico1982 just today created both articles. With no other edits.. Samuel Sol (talk) 16:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep without prejudice to merge. Assuming good faith with the addition of Danish sources, this is neither a hoax or non-notable. Non-admin closure by Skomorokh 06:00, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Aarhus University Shooting[edit]

Aarhus University Shooting (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Hoax/attack page. No sources available for this event. There appear to be several people named Flemming Nielsen, but none of them are referenced in this context. BradV 16:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

One good RS, along with a number of non-RS which can be googled, confirm the event took place--it is not a hoax. This article does include details that are not confirmed by the English-language reference, however. I can't read Danish and Babelfish doesn't offer it, so we could use the help of a Danish-speaker here to look at the second listed source. Jclemens (talk) 18:26, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. There is a copyright issue: the text is a word-by-word translation of the Danish-language reference [2]. The author of that reference claims copyright, with the proviso that "Partial quotation of the text is allowed only when clearly linked or referenced" to his page. I would think that requires more explicit citation, including quotation marks, than is currently done on the Wikipedia page. The reference itself is not obviously a reliable source: it is a list of Danish murders maintained by an individual as a subpage of the web site of a cluster of apartment buildings. It does list its primary sources at [www.bredalsparken.dk/~drabssageridanmark/html/webmaster.html]. It specifies that "some names have been altered", which in itself would seem to disqualify it as a source for the name of the perpetrator. The event is arguably notable and deserves a page, but the current page needs to be re-written based, to start with, on the IHT reference. --mglg(talk) 20:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rewrote the article to remove unsubstantiated names and eliminate copyvio. It's pretty stubby now. Jclemens (talk) 21:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's an article at fyens.dk that also mentions a Flemming Nielsen as perpetrator of the shooting, so the information from drabsager seems to be correct. (Lord Gøn (talk) 17:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC))[reply]
  • MERGE This might be applicable as a section of another article, but with google only turning up one English language source, It doesn't appear to have much on its own. HatlessAtless (talk) 21:22, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What would you like to merge this with? BradV 21:23, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
List of school-related attacks already seems to contain most of the content of this article which can be derived from the IHT source. School shootings is the only other mainspace article that links to it. Jclemens (talk) 21:30, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete and salt to prevent recreation. Tim Vickers (talk) 03:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Allan Bonner[edit]

Allan Bonner (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable person, page reads as advertisment. CSD - spam not approved, although looking at User talk:Allanbonner, this page (or a similar one to it) has been speedied in the past. StephenBuxton (talk) 15:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Believe it or not, weak keep. At least one book he authored has multiple citations, and at least one reputable media outlet has used him as a pundit. The entry needs a serious NPOV injection, but the subject is notable. The problem will be finding reference material not too badly infected with spin. 9Nak (talk) 16:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


I appreciate you getting back to me so quickly and trying to resolve this issue.

I am not sure what "weak keep" means. The reason his book as multiple citations is due to information from other industry experts or quoting people such as Marx etc... Many reputable media outlets have used him as a pundit in fact he is on BNN tonight speaking about a current controversial matter. I am not sure what NPOV inhection means. And he has been referenced by many media outlets and notable people so I am not sure what "too badly infected with spin" refers to. Is there information that should be removed for this to get approved?

Thanks again you are very helpful. Sarah Sarahanders1712 (talk) 16:45, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:StephenBuxton"

Essentially, Sarah, this article is a vanity page written either by Mr. Bonner himself or people associated with him. It has been created in various forms in the past and has been repeatedly deleted. While I was the admin that declined to speedily delete it, I agree with what user 9Nak said about the issues. The article is not encyclopedic - it is really a promotion of Mr. Bonner, and needs to be rewritten to remove bias. Tan | 39 17:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Couldn't have said it better myself, thanks. I've trimmed back the article – so severely that it may now be an even better candidate for deletion. Can't find acceptable (non self-published) references to include most of the claims in the original; YMMV. 9Nak (talk) 18:18, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Summary deletion per Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Badlydrawnjeff#Summary_deletion_of_BLPs by CIreland. 17:21, 11 June 2008

Alfredo Chiacig[edit]

Alfredo Chiacig (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

It fails WP:BLP, as it claims someone as a member of the Mafia without any RS. And again, it does no claim at all that the person even exists. Samuel Sol (talk) 15:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete, consensus is that this article fails the notability guidelines due to the lack of coverage in reliable sources. Davewild (talk) 09:11, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sendai Habitat[edit]

Sendai Habitat (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This article is about a charity initiative that lacks reliable sources. A search for coverage on this iniative shows no news coverage and a web search finds many wiki mirrors but no sources. The content of article is essentially an organisation web site and not an encyclopedia article. Removal of the image galleries and whatnot would leave an unverifiable stub with no notability. Whpq (talk) 15:34, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Tim Vickers (talk) 03:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Brittany Madelynn Daniels[edit]

Brittany Madelynn Daniels (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable actor. IMDB lists only four roles, all bit parts. Other appearances are asserted but no sources given. Talk page indicates she is an "up and coming" actor. Well, let's reconsider that if and when it happens, but for now she is not notable enough. (Contested speedy.) - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 15:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep --JForget 22:39, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I Want It[edit]

Nothing to prove itself of its notabily, fails WP:NM, just not high enough to be included for this flop song - well I never neard of it, end of —Preceding unsigned comment added by Charley Uchea (talkcontribs) 04:17, 12 June 2008

Question Have I misread the criteria? Does just being on a chart make songs notable? I thought it was about having a high position on said charts? If I'm wrong and being number "63" is notable (AND the information is sourced and verified in the article) than change my Delete to a Keep. Jasynnash2 (talk) 08:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
WP:MUSIC has that lovely word "possibly" notable, which to me, leaves it very much up to people like us to decide which side of the keep/delete line this article falls. WP:MUSIC mentions whether it has charted or not, nothing about how far up the chart it has got. Since the only real reason we're here is because the Nom hasn't heard of it, and also doesn't like it (which is strange because he hasn't heard of it), I said keep.  Esradekan Gibb  "Talk" 12:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
u dont av 2 mr fanboi, ur speakin fanspeak as dis chart place is nowt, doesnt the top 10 is the one that counts, not the top millyun. herre sumthin 4u - u a ur m8s can make it mor "notable" by spending all your dosh, buy all her shit off from ur local hmv or wollys or woteva, and put mor orda. leas dis can help her 2 get a top 3 place, 'Charley Uchea' is me cos i am 'Charley Uchea'. i'm sorry to say dat dance cart thin is very tiviel nobodi take it seriusle —Preceding unsigned comment added by Charley Uchea (talkcontribs) 00:17, 17 June 2008
Other than that, these charts seems to be a bit too trivial to make this single significant, especially that Upfront Club one as it does not have its own article well not likely with 235 ghits. Anton Ego (talk) 16:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
...and on the other hand, I think this nomination is rather a bit too bad faith, considering the nom's attitude and her personal attack, but I wouldn't mind nominating this myself. Anton Ego (talk) 16:34, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was no consensus to delete. Editors interested in pursuing a merge are invited to do so on the article's talk page. Non-admin closure by Skomorokh 06:05, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Windows Vista 64-bit editions[edit]

Windows Vista 64-bit editions (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

We already have the Windows Vista editions article covering the x86 (32-bit) versions as well as the x64 (64-bit) versions of Windows Vista. There is nothing in this article not covered in the Windows Vista editions article, nor is the x64 section in Windows Vista editions large enough to warrant a split. Anything that can be discussed about how Vista x64 is different can very well be fit in there. True, x64 versions of Windows are quite different from the x86 versions, but unless we are writing a text book for a masters course iin Operating Sustems, the differences are not that major to need a separate article. Plus there is stuff here that is not specific to Windows Vista x64 versions ("Old device drivers are particularly problematic, because they need to be rewritten in 64-bit mode"). soum talk 14:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are now several important documented differences in the article. None of this was in the Windows Edition article. Even if it was, it would be in the middle of the article. I think the differences are major, and are noteworthy enough for a new article. Please re-read the article. I have added some things, and they need more exposition. This article needs to grow, not be deleted. Also, it is plain to see that rewriting drivers to 64 bit is a major impediment to the adoption of 64 bit operating systems, and that this became acute when users chose Vista. In the future, as more and more people need to decide 64 vs 32 bit, this is going to become an important article. --Marcwiki9 (talk) 18:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think Windows Vista 64 needs a separate article because Windows Vista editions exists to describe the different types of marketing editions -home- -premium- -ultimate- etc. There is very little in that article which describes how or why 64 bit is different. I think that trying to squeeze the 64 bit differences into that article feels unnatural to me. In other words what makes 64 bit different from 32 bit doesn't have a lot to do with why Basic is different from Unltimate. I think that the difference is profound enough to require a separate exposition.--Marcwiki9 (talk) 20:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you're going to tell me, the person who wrote fully 75% of the Windows Vista article, and many of its sub-articles, and another dozen articles on the subject of Windows, that I have a "lack of knowledge" on the subject of Windows Vista, whereas you can't even be bothered to spell the word "kernel" correctly, than you may kindly go fuck yourself. That's really offensive, and also provably incorrect given my 2.5 year history of writing on the subject.
Not that being wrong has ever stopped you from yammering on, has it? Instead of carrying on with this losing argument, how about actually learning a little bit about what the hell it is you're trying to write about? But first, let's debunk a little bit of what you've said with reliable sources:
  • You state here (and in the article) that "hardware assisted DEP is not included in the 32 bit version. MSKB 912923, which is the first google result on "hardware DEP", states: "Both 32-bit versions and 64-bit versions of Windows support hardware-enforced DEP." ... so you are wrong.
  • You state in the article that ASLR is specific to 64-bit Windows. Mark Russinovich's three-part series on the Vista kernel makes it clear that ASLR is available in 32-bit versions of Windows ... so you are wrong again.
  • In your article on the list of incompatible 64-bit Vista applications, you assert that iTunes doesn't work. Had you been bothered to do the most utterly basic of Google searches: "itunes 64-bit", you would have seen the very first hit is HT1426 on Apple's support site, titled "64-bit editions of Windows Vista require iTunes 7.6 or later" ... so you are wrong a third time.
  • You claim in the article that Subsystem for Unix Applications is 64-bit only. No it's not -- it's included in the 32- and 64-bit variants of the Enterprise and Ultimate editions of Vista. Or is this update for 32-bit SUA in Vista just a mirage? You claim that this is the first time Windows has supported POSIX. No it's not -- the very first release of Windows NT, fifteen years ago, supported POSIX. Everyone with familiarity of the architectural history of Windows NT knows this. For a fourth and fifth time, you are wrong.
I could carry on, since there are several other factual errors in your contributions, but I'm getting bored of telling you you're wrong. -/- Warren 21:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. That was really a personal attack. Profanity doesn't help, Warren. And it makes you look bad. You might have 2.5 years, but that doesn't make you a grizzled veteran, or your responses would have been more nuanced. It doesn't take much research to protect your arguments better than that. I don't want to give you advice, but I think you ought to think before speaking like that. Or blank pages without consensus.

DEP: I will give you the reference from Microsoft. It is here. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946765. I think the readers should go there and read in black and white that "32 bit versions of Windows vista use a software based version of DEP".

additionally I would like to add that the article you quoted for DEP doesn't list Vista. The article I quoted specifically lists Vista. --Marcwiki9 (talk) 04:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ASLR: You quote an article from a Microsoft spokesman. That is great, but Mark Russinovich didn't tell you about the testing of ASLR. When it is independently tested, it is found that ASLR on 32 bits will randomize addresses on reboot, but 64 bit will randomize on every execution. Moreover, 32 bit randomization has 8 bit granularity, giving 256 different random points. 64 bits randomizes into the huge potential address space of 64 bits. Perhaps not an earth shattering advantage, but a hacker that wins one out of 256 times can still gain hidden or overt control of a compromised system, especially if he repeats the attack more than 256 times. see http://blogs.msdn.com/michael_howard/archive/2006/10/04/Alleged-Bugs-in-Windows-Vista_1920_s-ASLR-Implementation.aspx see http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:MRtZZSED-EUJ:www.ntcore.com/Files/vista_x64.htm+address+space+layout+randomization+vista+64&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=35&gl=us

Itunes doesn't work: That is not part of this article. It is part of a beginning of another article that we all agree was badly thought out and should be deleted. Bringing it up here is not helpful to this discussion. Please try to keep it on topic.

Subsystem for Unix: Oops. You're right. I misread my source. The claim was the existence of a new 64 bit subsystem for Unix, not the first subsystem. I am sorry and I will delete that from the original article.

Thank you for taking the time, but please keep it more civil.

I sincerely hope that best decision is made by this AfD consensus.

I really believe this article ought to exist, and that it should be made as excellent as possible.

--Marcwiki9 (talk) 03:37, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

comment Your link is exaclty the kind of exposition of the type that I was hoping for here in the Vista section. However, there has been a bunch of points being made here and in other places that are, in effect, what about (choose your option) [xp, xp edition, xp 64, vista, vista edition, windows, *nix, *nix 64] etcetera. As you can see, all of these articles are violative of WP:WAX. As such, they are fallacious arguments. This article, if notable (and nobody has even questioned that), should stand or fall on its own. Why Vista is different is because Vista 64 bits is the first Windows edition that is marketed to consumers. Why? because XP 64 professional is, by it's own name, not for consumers. XP 64 is for Itanium, which is not for consumers. So now we have this new type of thing, Vista 64 bits, being marketed to consumers, with home editions, media center and all. There are going to be millions of people who must decide which one to pick (64 bit or 32 bit). Up until now, there is no where to go for a NPOV opinion. Believe me, I tried. Wikipedia did not have this info. Google did not help. Microsoft's description did not help or point out what would and wouldn't work.

Most people here who have opined on the matter have, I am quite sure, for the most part, not experienced the issues of actually installing and running and using Vista 64 bits. You have people claiming "it is the same system with compiler options changed", as if it was a simple matter of choice with no ramifications. Nothing could be further from the truth when you actually buy it and, oops, the Audigy card does not work!! (It does not). And then, oops, your motherboard doesn't have drivers. I haven't even gotten into all of the Nforce 3 boards that utterly fail for Vista 64, even though they have a 64 bit processor. Nforce 3 will run *nix 64 until the cows come home. They fail on the Vista drivers that will not and cannot be updated. How many of you actually knew that? It is really not simple at all. XP 64 professional did not have media center.

Morever, the arguments here have been sidetracked by a bunch of ridiculous assertions delivered with a boatload of scorn, making it difficult to make any actual progress. There have been boatloads of violations of WP:NPA and etiquette. I am not reporting anybody because everyone makes mistakes, and Warren is obviously a very valuable and recognized Wikipedian, but trying to squish the newbie is obviously bad.

This article was listed as AfD. Even so, there has not been one vote to delete. Even by the original nominator. Soum listed it for deletion after this notification by Warren:User_talk:Soumyasch#Windows Vista 64-bit editions. As you can see, this almost created a wp:3rr puppet. Soum wisely declined, but even he knows, I am sure, that nom for deletion was wrong. It should have been nom for merge. Nom for deletion seems like a violation of good faith.

As you can see on this page Wikipedia:Deletion policy the reasons for merge are [short, unlikely to grow, duplicates]. This is none of them. If the XP 64 section described above is any guide, this article can grow quite large.

It sure seems like this has grown to a mountain out of a molehill, but the personal attacks made it difficult to be NPOV about the whole thing.

--Marcwiki9 (talk) 16:39, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Take it easy, and yes, Warren should try to be kinder. However, note that people can nominate for deletion with the intention that the material is integrated elsewhere. Also, a nominator may be completely wrong... These things are a completely normal parts of the article maintenance process here at Wikipedia. Instead of taking this deletion discussion personally, I suggest you work together with the others to get this material integrated into the main article. Also, it would indeed be good if more experienced Wikipedians here worked with you, rather than against you. From my quick reading of the above, you do seem to know this topic well. Merzul (talk) 17:21, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merzul, tell me why I should work with someone who comes onto Wikipedia, refuses to work on our existing corpus of articles on the subject of Windows Vista, preferring instead to create their own articles (one of which has been deleted), and then tells one of Wikipedia's most active contributors on the subject (me) that they don't know what they're talking about? Half the information he's submitted is provably incorrect, too, which is damaging to the overall quality of the encyclopedia. Warren -talk- 21:20, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
DGG, does it make sense to keep this article, in light of the fact that most of the information in the article is not actually specific to 64-bit editions of Windows Vista? The issues discussed also apply to 64-bit Windows XP, 64-bit Windows Server 2003, and especially 64-bit Windows Server 2008, which is based on exactly the same kernel. If we want to talk about things that are new to the 64-bit edition of Vista, we have a series of Features new to Windows Vista articles. If we want to talk about things that cover the whole line of 64-bit Windows articles, we have Microsoft Windows (which already discusses the progression of Windows in terms of CPU architecture) and Windows NT architecture. If we want to talk about releases of Windows Vista, we have Windows Vista editions. Basically everything that's presented in this article belongs elsewhere, so why duplicate the information? Warren -talk- 21:10, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. There is substantial support for the retention of this article by established users, while no users with > 50 edits support its deletion. Furthermore, the references provided in Theodore_Beale#Notes indicate sufficient coverage of Theodore Beale in third-party reliable sources to establish a presumption of his notability per the general notability guideline. John254 02:01, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Theodore Beale[edit]

Theodore Beale (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

I believe this Biographical article fails to meet WP notability guidelines. Deletion has been discussed on the talk page, and there has been no compelling argument against deletion. Messiahxi (talk) 14:23, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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Zachary Jaydon[edit]

The result was delete and salt. The actual discussion has been hidden from view but can still be accessed by following the "history" link at the top of the page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page..
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The result was Speedy deleted A7 and salted by Tanthalas39 (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA). Non-admin closing. --Blanchardb-MeMyEarsMyMouth-timed 14:29, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Anderson Biro, LLC[edit]

Anderson Biro, LLC (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Tagged for speedy under criterion a7, corporations. The creator removed the tag, promising improvements that never materialized. When the tag was reinserted, it was removed again (twice), by an anon, with no rationale given. Delete. Blanchardb-MeMyEarsMyMouth-timed 13:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Violation of WP:CRYSTAL. Malinaccier (talk) 03:20, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

DisneyMania 7[edit]

DisneyMania 7 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Disputed prod. This article is either a hoax or WP:CRYSTAL speculation. No reference to this album existing. NrDg 13:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Tim Vickers (talk) 03:33, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ryan Galloway[edit]

Ryan Galloway (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Suspected self-authored biography; non-notable, no sourcing. Minkythecat (talk) 13:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note; Nhprman self-identifies as an inclusionist. Minkythecat (talk) 06:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm glad you picked up on that. But so what? Is that a slur? I've restrained myself from calling others here "knee-jerk deletionists" because I'm nice and like to AGF. Why the "outing" of me as an inclusionist? I suppose that's like saying "leper" here on WP these days, huh? - Nhprman 13:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note; NhprmanMinkythecat self-identifies as a Wikipedia Review member. Phil Bridger (talk) 11:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Cute, and utterly irrelevant. Minkythecat (talk) 16:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No more irrelevant than your comment about Nhprman. If you make ad hominem arguments then you should expect people to scrutinise your prejudices too. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:24, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I do no such thing, although I'm a critic of the extreme deletionism of stubs that this kind of article represents (though in this case, it really does need proper attribution and I noted that already.) - Nhprman 13:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Extreme deletionism? Given someone has already produced linkies showing the facts cited on the page to be somewhat incorrect, deletionism of stubs like this isn't required, more termination with extreme prejudice. Minkythecat (talk) 16:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about that - I meant Minkythecat. Phil Bridger (talk) 14:35, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Since Wikipedia is about verifiability, not truth, it wouldn't be appropriate for this (or any) article to be expanded by "those in his country who know of him and other athletes". If the information isn't already available and verifiable, it doesn't belong in Wikipedia, period. Nobody is saying it has to be an Internet-based source - just that it must be published and reliable. This doesn't really have anything to do with inclusionism or deletionism.  Frank  |  talk  12:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You're correct about not needing to be online in the guidelines, but to be accurate, someone actually did say it must be Internet-based. The critereon posted on the article for deleting the articles said there was nothing to be found on Google about it. That, to me, is an irrelevant point, and whether something is on Google or not has no standing in WP policy. - Nhprman 13:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think I'd put that a different way. Google - and most especially Google News and the Google News Archives - can definitely be used to establish notability. Lack of hits in any of those three areas is a bad sign, to be sure, but not definitive. (Google Books and Google Scholar are also good resources.) I have also done a search at a university library, which covers many news sources that Google does not, and I've also come up with no hits there. It's a US-based university, so it may be that the resources that would include Ryan Galloway aren't included. The key here is that the Internet is a tool, not an answer. There are many databases that search print materials - the materials themselves are NOT available on the Internet (or they are but aren't free), but the databases ARE available. In any permutation I've looked at, the subject of this article has not shown up, so I agree that notability hasn't been established. It would be a fairly simple matter for notability to be established - but first it has to be asserted, and that simply hasn't been done. Scotland has libraries and universities. If the subject is notable, someone there can find material that shows it. Even if the article is self-authored, although it would be in bad form to do so, notability could still be asserted - but even though this article has been nominated for deletion, no such attempt has been made.  Frank  |  talk  15:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This is a fair analysis. - Nhprman 15:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This article has been added for the very reason that the scottish althletics board has no pubicly available record of previous national champions. This article is to demonstrate to others how a brief paragraph could be create for each of the countries previous great athletes and then create a ring of information linking these athletes and events as needed. How is anyone supposed to create such a wealth of information if people try and jump on it like this and say usles?? you don't have a clue what you are calling usless! for example, try and tell me who was the scottish u19 champion in 200m in 1994.. when your done trying you can see what i mean.

Phil Bridger (talk) 11:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
My suspicion is raised by this text "going on to enjoy a very succesful athletics carrear". Given nothing else is been sourced it just seems a bit odd if this person was kosher that they'd not mention any details of this successful career. Based upon all this, I suspect it's nothing more than a hoax article. Minkythecat (talk) 14:49, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy delete via creator blanking. ... discospinster talk 16:26, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Science Park I Bus Terminal[edit]

Science Park I Bus Terminal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Totally and utterly non notable bus stop, surely??? Minkythecat (talk) 13:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We have articles for railway stations, but I think bus stops is going too far. Delete. DJ Clayworth (talk) 13:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Article creator just blanked the page. I think we can take that a a request for deletion and speedy it. DJ Clayworth (talk) 13:18, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was nomination withdrawn in favor of renomination in proper forum (RfD). Non-admin closure. Deor (talk) 16:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Scientific Mathod[edit]

Scientific Mathod (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

The article title is obviously a misspelling. THE FOUNDERS INTENT TALK 13:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete, Nakon 22:21, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Da Realest[edit]

Da Realest (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

WP:CRYSTAL? Minkythecat (talk) 13:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]