< 16 August	18 August >

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The result was delete. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 08:26, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Francisco Junior (footballer)[edit]

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Previously prodded at Francisco Júnior. A non-notable footballer who has not played a professional game.[1] Fails WP:ATHLETE. No substantial 3rd party coverage, fails WP:GNG. Tassedethe (talk) 23:28, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - He has not received significant coverage or played in a fully pro league. As such this article fails both WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. Sir Sputnik (talk) 16:41, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Can be created when he actually plays for Everton. For now he fails GNG and NFOOTY. --Arsenalkid700 (talk) 12:58, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 14:30, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy keep per WP:SK#1. The nominator withdrew their nomination, and no other !votes (other than the nomination) to delete were posted. (Non-administrator closure.) Northamerica1000^(talk) 21:33, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cuong Nhu[edit]

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No indication this is a notable martial art. The world headquarters claims that there are 70 schools worldwide and I don't think that's enough to show notability for a martial art. There are no independent sources in the article. Papaursa (talk) 23:20, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep There are sufficient sources to show this art is notable. My nomination was in error. Papaursa (talk) 16:48, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Never having heard of it I immediately found half a dozen English sources in Google Books, and also a couple of sources back in Vietnam - where it is viewed as American. It's not massively notable and the article is badly written and sourced, but this is a case of improve not delete. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:01, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Wikipedia is not for self-promotion. Sandstein 06:14, 26 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gianna Giavelli[edit]

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This is apparently an autobiography; there are some nebulous claims of notability so I thought it best to bring it to AfD. The books appear to be self-published (one certainly is, the other two are E-books without attribution) and thus confer no notability. For the rest, I could locate no reliable sources that back up most of the claims and very little of this contributes to notability anyway. I confirmed the existence of an interview with her in a magazine. There is a strong air of self-promotion that would require extensive re-writing if this article survives AfD. Ubelowme _U ^Me 22:50, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please let me know what claims are in dispute. thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ggiavelli (talk • contribs) 22:52, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment What is being disputed is that the subject has sufficient notability to be the subject of a Wikipedia article. There are also not enough in the way of reliable sources to confirm any notability that is being asserted. Notability and reliable sources are two crucial elements of any Wikipedia article. Ubelowme _U ^Me 22:57, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would argue that being a corporate c level executive and the sole female cto in california confers notability. This is documented/backed up by a link to a dice interview article (dice is a well established jobs site for the technology industry). There is also a published article linked as well. Whether a book is self published or not is irrelevant since many others use publishing services as the new model also it is a simple matter to register a ISBN privately and then there would be no issue if something is "self" published or not. Whatever airs of "self promotion" are in the disputers head this is simply a information point for people seeking information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ggiavelli (talk • contribs) 22:59, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I just read the policy on entries for living persons. I will adjust the tone and add more references. thanks. Please forgive my newness to using wiki — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ggiavelli (talk • contribs) 23:18, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I completed my updates of references as much as is possible in the short term. I had to learn how to do footnotes and proper wikipedia style. I have also re-linked the article into other wiki articles so I hope that meets the criticism raised. --Ggiavelli (talk) 00:19, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. You may also find the policy on autobiography useful; you can expect this process to last about a week. Ubelowme _U ^Me 00:20, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. By way of comparison look at John Koza's wikipedia entry. I believe this current entry is better cited and more notable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ggiavelli (talk • contribs) 01:09, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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To be honest, I find the whole gamut of wikipedia rules, not just the rules but the thuggish way things are enforced and the hamfisted aggressive approach people have here to be extremely off-putting to sane logical people who are simply trying to use the system. It's not a friendly place in the slightest and to be honest after my experience here I feel like I will never come back. I find the reactions I have had disturbing to put it mildly. Maybe it is a response to vandalism of articles but at a certain point it becomes no more than petty thought police feeling high and mighty implementing their feifdoms. My submission was criticized for not having external links from other wiki articles. But when I tried to add such a link I got "Oh no you dont you have to discuss your changes in talk first" thats utter nonsense. To get such drivel just shows how far from a wiki this place has become. So basically I cannot fulfill the requirements, because the enforces are psychopaths. so forget it. who has patience for such childish people? I sure dont. Ggiavelli (talk) 02:53, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as self-promotion without secondary evidence of notability. I became aware of this AfD through the subject's postings at Neural network. I'm sorry to see a new user become offended by Wikipedia's policies and driven off, but WP:NOTADVERTISING. --Tryptofish (talk) 14:16, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I don't see the significant coverage about the individual to meet Wikipedia's inclusion guidelines. -- Whpq (talk) 14:56, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy deleted WP:CSD#G7 by Reaper Eternal (talk) after author blanked the page and added speedy tags. JohnCD (talk) 14:02, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Akil wingate[edit]

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I was able to verify that this singer/songwriter/playwright/model/actor exists, but I was not able to find reliable sources to verify his notability in any of those fields. Prod removed by creator, who may have a conflict of interest. The article says that several of his songs 'reached top 20 status in Europe' - maybe I'm missing some obvious source that confirms this? FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 06:13, 26 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Specialized city[edit]

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Notability, lack of references Beastiepaws (talk) 22:16, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Grudging delete. I get the point the article writer is trying to make, but the whole thing sounds like original research. Every city is "specialized" in some sense, in that there's invariably some part of the local economy that's more prominent than the national average, but the leap from that to "specialized city" is such a weird claim that it needs strong sourcing to back the claim up, and those sources don't appear to exist. There are also some very dubious claims in the article that no genuine geographer or social scientist would make, which makes me strongly suspect that this is a school paper of some kind. (As an example, I've just removed some nonsense about London ceasing to be a port city following the end of the British Empire - the Port of London is one of the busiest ports in the world and employs over 30,000 people - and the idea that Bukhara is dominated by the carpet-making industry is just plain weird.) I can't see how this is saveable, as I don't believe the sources exist. Mogism (talk) 09:43, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep but obviously needs more references supporting the topic. A valid topic that can be expanded. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:35, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looks like completely original research. Beastiepaws (talk) 08:40, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note that the above comment is by the nominator of this AfD. Eluchil404 (talk) 07:53, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. While it may well be possible to have an article on this topic, though perhaps at a different title, Mogism makes a compelling case that WP:TNT applies in this case. Eluchil404 (talk) 07:53, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I fail to see the notability factor in this article. It is reminiscent of students at a high school being asked to write an essay on different types of cities. Like Mogism, I think some of the assertions are generalisations and sweeping statements --Zananiri (talk) 17:45, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The topic itself is notable by the number of academic writings using that topic. I have added several references at the bottom. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:45, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. There is no consensus about notability or whether the article should be about the event rather than the person. Sandstein 06:11, 26 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Owen J. Baggett[edit]

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His claim to have shot down a Zero with a .45 was written up in Airforce magazine, but his military career doesn't appear to have any other notable achievements. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Can't see anything that makes him any different from vast numbers of other pilots and POWs. -- Necrothesp (talk) 17:43, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~, subject is not notable per WP:SOLDIER, WP:ANYBIO, or WP:GNG. This article appears to fall under WP:BLP1E, and as such the event does not appear to pass WP:EFFECT. Additionally, although the subject appears to have co-authored a book, the subject does not appear to pass WP:AUTHOR.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 00:26, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Given the addition of multiple reliable sources, I have changed my opinion to Weak Delete, although there are other mentions of the subject, most are passing. There is the "Commander for a Day" article, but I don't know if that article could be considered significant coverage. Additionally, I am not sure that the Obit would not fall under WP:ROUTINE, or WP:NOTMEMORIAL, even though it does clearly pass significant coverage; now if the obit was carried in a more major publication I could be persuaded to changing my opinion to WEAK KEEP.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 17:48, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is an obit in the San Antonio paper, but it is behind a paywall, so I'm not sure what it says. GregJackP Boomer! 02:28, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A link please.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 12:19, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I found another copy of it here and will add to the article. GregJackP Boomer! 22:07, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete nothing stands out as notable compared with thousands of other airmen and pow. MilborneOne (talk) 11:10, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep clearly meets WP:GNG with significant coverage in multiple reliable sources. I added several refs and could add more, but in any event, his story appears in numerous books (4 cited as refs), magazines, reliable websites, etc. WP:BLP1E is not an appropriate objection, as the subject of the article is not a living person. The WP:EVENT is also notable, as shown by the cites listed. GregJackP Boomer! 16:13, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Wikipedia is not a memorial. One of the few sites that can be accessed is his obituary. Being mentioned in several books about the war doesn't cut it. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 17:04, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Google searches turned up no evidence of any notability except for the shooting event, which is only mentioned briefly in reliable sources, nor any evidence that the subject stands out significantly from his many fellow soldriers and POWs. His military career before and after the shooting incident was not out of the ordinary, and he does not meet the requirements of WP:SOLDIER, or any other notability guideline, for that matter. The shooting incident itself is not notable enough to add any substantial notability, and fails WP:EVENT. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 17:15, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails WP:SOLDIER....William 00:04, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note that WP:SOLDIER is an essay. IRWolfie- (talk) 20:31, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Multiple reliable sources referenced in the article now, do give him significant coverage. Dream Focus 09:31, 20 August 2012 (UTC) Note: An editor has expressed a concern that Dream Focus (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion. (diff) IRWolfie- (talk)[reply]

- How do mentions = significant coverage in the terms required by GNG? What about the ONEEVENT argument? How does your vote overcome that? Spartaz ^Humbug! 10:41, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Do you not consider this [2] to be significant coverage about the guy? And its not just about that one event. Dream Focus 10:50, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - No, it's just a war story. What makes it significant? If he had an obit in a major national newspaper, that would make him significant. A short mention in a local paper? No. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:07, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(ec)Don't know, since it is significant coverage per GNG (as I noted above) and the event is notable in and of itself. GregJackP Boomer! 10:53, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I have added six additional references. GregJackP Boomer! 12:16, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – This person passes WP:BASIC and WP:GNG, per:

"Valor: David and Goliath" Air Force Magazine article.
"Best Shot with a 1911. Ever." Field and Stream Magazine article.
"Owen Baggett, 85: friend of many, good drummer, one heck of a WWII tale" Abilene Reporter-News article.
"The M1911 Gets a Zero" American Rifleman article.
Gun Digest Shooters Guide to the 1911 (Click on the "Page 24" link to view the full coverage)
"Owen Baggett Missing in Action" Hardin-Simmons University Bulletin.

—Northamerica1000^(talk) 13:02, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Most of the "GNG" coverage is either an obit or a retelling of the legend of him shooting down a plane with a 1911 (WP:ONEEVENT). OhNoitsJamie ^Talk

keep multiple references to him in reliable sources. ONEEVENT notwithstanding, a single event can be very notable - this one has been discussed numerous times, in numerous sources. Gaijin42 (talk) 15:53, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Plenty of reliable references to him in reliable sources. Notable for a unique event, but still worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia. --DThomsen8 (talk) 01:07, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Rename and rescope so that the article is about the incident, which appears notable, not the person. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:58, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep WP:SOLDIER is just an essay, not a policy, and so is just a few editors' version of WP:IDONTLIKEIT, with no general authority or force. The subject appears in multiple books and so easily passes WP:BIO. Our actual editing policy is to keep such material, not to delete it. Warden (talk) 14:36, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Rename per Bushranger above. This is a BIO1E case, but there is coverage in sources, so an article about the event is appropriate. Distant second choice would be an outright keep, but I don't see deletion as appropriate where there is this level of independent coverage. Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 15:53, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as subject appears to cross both the verifiability and notability thresholds. Notability is not a competition. - Dravecky (talk) 17:21, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 08:25, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hebburn Reyrolle F.C.[edit]

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Non-notable amateur football club. Not played at level 10, or played in FA Cup or FA Vase. PROD was removed by LeagueOctopus saying "The club (or part thereof) appears to have played in the FA Vase - refer http://www.fchd.info/HEBBUR-1.HTM ". However, this is actually the FCHD record for Hebburn Town F.C. of the North Football League who, confusingly, used to be called Hebburn Reyrolle at one point too. Hence the {1} after the name. The other Hebburn Reyrolle FCHD pages can be found in the references section of the article. Del_♉sion23 (talk) 21:20, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete No indication of WP:notability, zero wp-suitable references. And this in a field (sports) which is coverage-heavy in proportion to real world notabiity. North8000 (talk) 22:01, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete A non-notable club. Apologies for confusing the club name! League Octopus (League Octopus 09:15, 18 August 2012 (UTC))[reply]
Delete: Non-notable football club. --Arsenalkid700 (talk) 13:08, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. Giant Snowman 14:31, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Not a deletion issue. Although few opinions have been offered, it appears clear that whatever may be wrong with this page can be fixed editorially, such as by rewriting or redirecting it. Sandstein 06:09, 26 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Volya[edit]

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Incorrect and confusing disambiguation page. The Banner _talk 20:40, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why is it incorrect and what's confusing? —Xezbeth (talk) 21:11, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The disambiguation page is not pointing to subjects of the same name or type. The two items mentioned have accidentely part of the name in common, but it is certainly not confusing or needing a disambiguation page. The Banner _talk 21:20, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - I initially would have made a simple surname redirect since there's only one person with the name, but noticed that Narodnaya Volya (disambiguation) already existed. It seems like a perfectly valid thing to disambiguate. In addition, there are several settlements with this name too but I don't know Russian so would have butchered adding them. —Xezbeth (talk) 21:23, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Russian battleship Imperator Aleksandr III, which was renamed Volya or Volia, with a hatnote there to Pavel Volya. Narodnaya Volya is a WP:Partial title match and therefore not a legitimate dab entry. Alternatively, there do appear to be at least ten Russian populated places and one abandoned one named Volya,[3] so there is enough for a dab page with a person, a battleship and lots of redlinks. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:45, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment - This shouldn't be at AfD, it should have been boldly converted into a redirect. Nominator is correct that this is an improper disambiguation page. Y'all also forgot Zemlya i volya, not that it matters. Carrite (talk) 04:13, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. There is a clear consensus that this individual's work, to the extent it has been recognized by reliable sources, is insufficent to show notability at this time. Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 15:35, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Georgina Booth[edit]

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Has accomplished more than I have, certainly. Nevertheless, she does not appear to be notable for either her humanitarian work or her acting work, the references don't look particularly substantial or reliable, and I am having difficulty finding decent coverage of this person. --Bongwarrior (talk) 20:18, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Bongwarrior,

This is entirely your own opinion. Georgina Booth is very well-known in The Netherlands, Europe. I don't know where you are from, but you have a very subjective opinion if you are not from The Netherlands. I can not believe that you would delete a page about a young person who has done so many good things for other people. I myself have read a lot about this young person, and I am aware that she will be very prominent in the media in the near future as it is known that she will be participating in several projects which will gain a lot of media coverage in The Netherlands. I have thoroughly enjoyed writing an article about this spectacular young person and she is more of a philanthropist than an actress at the moment, so that is maybe the reason why you 'do not think her acting work is notable'. I find it very insulting that you do not think the sources are reliable as they are from official large organizations in The Netherlands. I do not know if you understand the language of The Netherlands? Where are you from exactly? IF you will delete this page, I will file a complaint about you and hopefully others will see more sense. Every other Wikipedia volunteer that has been updating the page about Georgina Booth have just corrected it to improve it, and you have only visited this page for the first time and want to immediately delete it. Who gives you the right to decide what should or should not delete it?

If the sources are an issue. A lot of other sources from The Netherlands can be added. I think it is highly unlikely that you know every single person on this planet, so if you think this person is not 'notable' enough, then that is entirely your subjective opinion. I find it very sad that you have only on this page once and spend a portion of time in your life searching about this person and then immediately want to delete it. I have seen a large quantity of Wikipedia articles which are very unreliable and are about people who have done much less work than this person in either philanthropy or acting and do not get insulting deletion messages from volunteers like you. Before deleting this page, if I were you, I would consider deleting a large amount of Wikipedia articles which contain a lot less than this article. --Wikinow1 —Preceding undated comment added 22:04, 17 August 2012 (UTC) — Wikinow1 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

I'm sorry you feel that way, and I assure you it's nothing personal. I just think it may be too soon for an article about this person based on the quality of the sources presented so far. They don't need to be in English, but they do need to be reliable, independent, and non-trivial. --Bongwarrior (talk) 22:21, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I completely disagree with you. The sources that are used in this article are from very large organizations in The Netherlands. 2 sources are from one of the largest philanthropic organization in The Netherlands (the ministry of peace of which national Dutch politicians are part of so they are 100 percent legitimate. The minister of peace Jan Terlouw is a very famous children's author and former deputy prime minister of The Netherlands). The other sources are from one of the largest municipalities in The Netherlands of which Georgina has been actively involved in as a humanitarian ambassador. A lot of media in The Netherlands have written about this and she is very well-known there. A lot of articles on Wikipedia contain similar amount of sources as the sources in this particular article.

I find it very strange that you have only visited this article for the first time and immediately want to delete it. I find you, therefore, highly unreasonable, as all other volunteers/editors have only improved/edited the article or deleted particular sentences to improve article. The message about deletion must be taken away and if you have an 'issue' with sources, then more sources can be added over the weeks. Instead of wasting so much time about deleting a page of a young person who wants to do good things for others, we can just solve this issue now and get on with our lives. I do not want an argument, but this is really a waste of time to argue about a young girl who does humanitarian work in a small country in Europe (Netherlands). --Wikinow1 —Preceding undated comment added 22:46, 17 August 2012 (UTC) — Wikinow1 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

By the way, it must be emphasized that the deletion message must be removed, because it gives negativity to all of the good work and efforts this person has done for the good of others. A person like her does not deserve that. It is a very nasty act to delete an article about a young person who actually wants to do good. All of the other editors have only helped in a positive way. You could do the same by helping like all of the other editors/volunteers, instead of just being so negative and wanting to remove it. Please remove it. --Wikinow1 —Preceding undated comment added 22:58, 17 August 2012 (UTC) — Wikinow1 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Dear other Wikipedia editors and volunteers reading this, would you please help me to delete the deletion message added by Bongwarrior. I do not have the time to argue about a young girl who is notable in a small country for her humanitarian work. I have put a lot of effort and thoroughly enjoyed writing an article about a good young person. Bongwarrior should not have put this deletion message on the article about Georgina Booth with the reasons he/she has given. The deletion message must be removed from the article, because it gives negativity to all of the good work and efforts this person has done for the good of others. A person like her does not deserve that. I praise any young person who does good for others and this person deserves an article to be written about her and she is also very notable for her good work in The Netherlands. --Wikinow1 (talk) 23:09, 17 August 2012 (UTC)Wikinow1 — Wikinow1 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

If nobody will delete the deletion message added by Bongwarrior about the article of Georgina Booth, then I will delete that message myself as I have just as much right as others to edit this article. It can be discussed on here if some want to add it back and continue with arguing about a young girl who does a lot of humanitarian work.--Wikinow1 (talk) 23:14, 17 August 2012 (UTC)--Wikinow1 — Wikinow1 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

I would strongly advise against removing the deletion message on the article. If you look at the deletion message, you will see that it says, "Feel free to edit the article, but the article must not be blanked, and this notice must not be removed, until the discussion is closed." You are not the person who gets to decide when the discussion is closed. (That will be most likely be done by an administrator about a week from now, after a full discussion of the article.) Also, please keep in mind that deletion discussions such as this one are not intended to be judgments of whether the subject is a good person, nor are they meant to be insults to the subject. There are typically more than a hundred deletion discussions at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion started every day and they are just meant to be a part of maintaining the encyclopedia. The best thing you can do for this article now would be to add the "lot of other sources from The Netherlands" that you mentioned above. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 01:27, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Metropolitan90, as she is well-known in a small country and her work mainly consists of philanthropy at such a young age, a lot of sources about her are not on the internet but were in newspapers, magazines and other written sources. I don't know exactly what you want me to do, but all of those sources are not available on the internet. It is also known that she is going to participate in some very large projects this year, so there will probably be more internet sources over the next few weeks. I will find it very petty if anyone wants to delete this page soon. We are all volunteers and it especially does not make volunteers from other countries 'experts' on a subject from a country they are not from based on reading one article. But, since you insist on 'more' sources, I have just added other sources which are all legitimate. How many 'sources' do I need to add, before all of you will take that 'deletion message' away? I would suggest all of you to scrutinize some other articles that contain much less sources about people who are less well-known, and who have no 'deletion messages' appearing on their articles. Just look on the list of people born in 1994 - a large amount of articles contain much less information than this article (about people who have hardly done anything) and which contain much less sources! I have tried to add some extra sources, and they are governmental pdf files about Georgina Booth (so they are legitimate), but Wikipedia will not allow me to do that. You can hardly expect me to retrieve all articles in newspapers and magazines that this person has been featured in! Instead of wasting time, can this 'issue' be solved now? What 'needs' to be done to take the deletion message away? If this Encyclopedia 'needs' to be 'maintained', then you should scrutinize those thousands of other articles, which do not have any deletion messages, and contain much less information (also hardly any sources). --Wikinow1 (talk) 10:48, 18 August 2012 (UTC)--Wikinow1[reply]

Regarding non-Internet sources, those are allowed to be cited. The way you can cite them is to use the "cite news" template (similar to the "cite web" template which I see you have already been using) and leave the URL blank. Or, alternatively, just type out the author, title, newspaper name, date, and page surrounded by <ref> ... </ref> -- so that if we went to a Dutch library, we could find them somehow. The deletion template is very likely going to be up on this article until August 24, so you may as well get used to it being there. And if you want to submit any other inadequately sourced articles for deletion, please go ahead and do so if those other articles deserve to be deleted. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 16:04, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Article fails WP:GNG; it would need some reliable sources that are independent of the subject in order to warrant an article, and this article doesn't have that right now, looking online doesn't show anything either. - Sudo Ghost 14:37, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why didn't anyone say any of this earlier? A lot of people have already edited it, and only because 'Bangwarrior' suddenly put the deletion message on, it 'might have to be deleted'. How subjective! It is a personal opinion. There are a lot of reliable sources about this person. I am also assuming none of you live in The Netherlands... That is probably the reason why none of you are 'finding sources' about this person. Do all of you really want to spend so much time scrutinizing this article? There is nothing wrong with this article and the sources are reliable and independent. If you disagree, then you are disagreeing with large Dutch (governmental) organizations. Why are all of you so fixated on the internet? What about the actual hard copy sources, e.g. newspapers and magazines? Instead of scrutinizing this article about this young girl in particular who has done a lot of good things and has a lot of reliable sources to back her up, try looking and deleting some other articles of others who were born in 1994 and have really unreliable and non-independent sources (e.g. this person born in 1994: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Boscarino). Is a Twitter source of that person reliable? You should start checking these other articles instead... If you think a Twitter account on the 'article of Samantha Boscarino' is more reliable than reliable governmental and NGO sources of 'the article of Georgina Booth', then I must say that none of you know the rules of Wikipedia well. Is social media e.g. Twitter a reliable source and are articles from large Dutch (governmental) institutions not reliable? --Wikinow1 (talk) 15:03, 18 August 2012 (UTC)--Wikinow1[reply]

By the way in response to 'Sudoghost' (Article fails WP:GNG; it would need some reliable sources that are independent of the subject in order to warrant an article, and this article doesn't have that right now, looking online doesn't show anything either.): I have just added another reliable source to this article that is independent from the topic (an article from a business club part of the Dutch government). How can you say that it is not reliable and independent? This article has more reliable sources than a lot of articles in the list of 'People born in 1994'. --Wikinow1 (talk) 15:08, 18 August 2012 (UTC)--Wikinow1[reply]

If all of you want to delete this, then you should delete most articles in the list of people in 1994. This person has done more than them and has more sources too. --Wikinow1 (talk) 15:08, 18 August 2012 (UTC)--Wikinow1[reply]

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is an argument to avoid, either way. Also please note that being in the news with lots of sources for "doing good things" does not equal notability. Also please stop assuming bad faith. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:25, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why scrutinize this article, when a lot of other articles are allowed to exist that don't obey the rules of Wikipedia? And this person is notable in The Netherlands. Are any of you from The Netherlands? It is an invalid reason to assume this person is not notable, just because you can't find enough about her in other countries. It is like saying that you should delete every article about small places in the world that most people in the world have never heard of. Not every biography on Wikipedia is about people who are notable in every single part of the world. A lot of people are just notable in 1 or a few countries. Just a question: is Twitter allowed as a source? --Wikinow1 (talk) 13:25, 19 August 2012 (UTC)--Wikinow1[reply]

If the subject is very notable in the Netherlands, I would expect to find an article about her in the Dutch Wikipedia. But as of now, there isn't one. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 16:14, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, Twitter is not a reliable source. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 21:24, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - There are a few mentions of the subject floating around the internet, and I'm sure there are similar references to her in print sources that I can't dig up at the moment, but nothing to show notability. She'll probably get there someday, but right now any mention of her that I can find (even being fluent in Dutch) is either not significant coverage, or it is not independent of the subject. Fails WP:GNG MisterUnit (talk) 21:30, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do NOT Delete - if Twitter is not a reliable source, then a deletion message should also appear on articles like 'the article of Samantha Boscarino' and on many other Wikipedia articles. Why is there no deletion message appearing on them, but all of you seem to be ganging up together on this article? How can I assume 'bad faith' according to some of you when everything I am saying is true? I would strongly recommend all of you to leave this page alone, or for a few months as it is known in the area where she is from that she is going to be more high profile (a lot of sources about her are hard copy). All of you just seem to be 'stalking' her and scrutinizing her obsessively on the internet when you could be scrutinizing others who do NOT meet the criteria of Wikipedia. Kind of sad scrutinizing an article about a young girl who has done a lot and is notable. By the way, 'MisterUnit', can you prove that you can speak Dutch fluently (and not using google translation)? I might just file a complaint about all of you who obsessively spending your time on scrutinizing an article that does overall meet the criteria of Wikipedia, when a lot of articles which do NOT are left unchecked. And if you, MisterUnit, are fluent in Dutch, how come you find the sources 'not independent of the subject'? If you were fluent in Dutch, you would read that they are independent governmental or NGO institutions in The Netherlands with leading Dutch politicians as head of them. Kind of sounds like all of you are jealous of this young person (due to the fact that she might have achieved more at a younger age than a lot of you without being on the internet 24/7) and that is why none of you want an article written about her... As 'Bongwarrior' already subjectively said when he placed the deletion message on the article 'Has accomplished more than I have, certainly' or as 'MisterUnit' said 'She'll probably get there someday'. By saying a personal opinion first rather than objectively observing this article, it shows that there are personal reasons why some of you believe that this article should be deleted... Maybe some of you have kids and are comparing her to them or maybe you are comparing her to yourselves? And I am not the first person on the internet to be saying this about some of the volunteers on this page who are criticizing this article... I do not want an argument, but I am only saying the facts. Also, I would like to emphasize that all of you are judging this person's article based on her acting career. It has to be emphasized that she is known more as a philanthropist than an actress. It was just put in her biography that she was an actress in the past and is now more primarily a philanthropist. And by the way, there IS an article on the Dutch wikipedia. --Wikinow1 (talk) 14:25, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Due to promotional content, lack of notability, no reliable sources and not generally known at all in The Netherlands (contrary to what is stated above) the similar article which just has been placed on nl-wiki has been also nominated for deletion as well there. MoiraMoira (talk) 14:46, 20 August 2012 (UTC) editor/admin on nl-wiki; editor on en-wiki and living in The Netherlands[reply]

Comment You should really try to stay on topic here. If you think Samantha Boscarino should be nominated for deletion, then nominate the article for deletion. Nobody is saying that the rest of English Wikipedia is perfect by nominating this article for deletion or by !voting delete. You may notice that 101 articles were nominated for deletion the same day that this article was. There are hundreds of articles and files nominated for deletion every day, many of which ultimately end up getting deleted.

If you would like me to prove that I am fluent in Dutch I live in the Vancouver area and am available for lunch today. Let me know if you would like to meet up.

A word of advice - You might want to stop writing these long responses to everybody who !votes on this AFD. You're making a lot of assumptions about the other editors involved in this discussion (such as "all of you are judging this person's article based on her acting career"), and some of what you are saying, especially about people's children and personal lives, could be interpreted as personal attacks. MisterUnit (talk) 15:35, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have now taken everything of the articles of 'Georgina Booth', so there is no point arguing anymore. Please just leave this topic alone now. Apparently nobody wants to give a new volunteer the chance to change the first article that I have ever written on this website and put a lot of effort into writing it. I think it is such a waste of time to argue whether a young teenage girl who is known to do a lot of good work for others does or does not deserve to be on this encyclopedia. Do not bother reversing what I have done just so you can delete it yourself.--Wikinow1 (talk) 08:11, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've reverted your edit on the Georgina Booth page. Per WP:EDITATAFD please don't blank the page. I think you've had your say here and everybody understands your position. At this point it is probably best to just stop interfering and let the AfD run its course. MisterUnit (talk) 13:12, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy close as inappropriate for AfD discussion. In fact the title needs to remain at least for a day or so until the bot fixes a lot of double redirects. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 23:37, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrown (SIBO)[edit]

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Redundant page due to another user's typo. New page is here small intestinal bacterial overgrowth Tepi (talk) 20:07, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural comment. If I understand what's going on here correctly, this is actually a request to delete the redirect left behind by a page move. Technically, jurisdiction for such things is held by WP:RFD rather than this venue, although in this case, I think the redirect is sufficiently implausible to qualify for an R3 speedy. Regardless, since I performed the procedural close of the duplicate AFD, I'll let someone else consider whether further housekeeping here is warranted. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 20:30, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I've listed the R3 speedy deletion; it does not look like a likely typo. §everal⇒|Times 20:49, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:05, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My Three Sons (season 1)[edit]

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Listing of season episodes with plot summaries. Violates WP:NOTDIRECTORY and WP:NOTPLOT. BenTels (talk) 20:05, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: List of My Three Sons episodes already exists. I'm undecided as to whether plot summaries such as these are worth merging. §everal⇒|Times 20:52, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Actually, the nom is incorrect. There are tons of TV shows covered in this manner. See e.g. House (season 3) or Veronica Mars (season 2). The "list of episodes" is not redundant to a per-season episode list, because the per-season article covers plot summaries, while the series-long list of episodes article will not. Jclemens (talk) 00:32, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Jclemens. Standard for notable series coverage; neither a NOTDIR or NOTPLOT problem. postdlf (talk) 00:36, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, as said above, this is the standard per notable TV series, with hundreds of similar articles. Cavarrone (talk) 08:56, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Eluchil404 (talk) 07:49, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel Tabera[edit]

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He's a non-notable MMA fighter. He has 1 fight for a top tier MMA organization (a loss over 3 years ago) so he fails WP:NSPORTS#Mixed martial arts. The article's only source is sherdog and that's not enough to show he meets WP:GNG. Papaursa (talk) 20:03, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: per nom, no indications of notability, fails WP:ATHLETE. Jezhotwells (talk) 14:26, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails notability criteria for MMA (WP:MMANOT) and martial arts (WP:MANOTE). Also lacks independent coverage. Astudent0 (talk) 23:30, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Eluchil404 (talk) 07:48, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

European Cup Winners' Cup (trophy)[edit]

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Duplicating information that is at the parent article UEFA Cup Winners' Cup. Nothing to claim that the trophy is worthy of an article of its own. NapHit (talk) 19:48, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - doesn't seem to be anything worth saying about the trophy itself..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:19, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: The trophy deserves a section on the European Cup page, not its own article. --Arsenalkid700 (talk) 13:00, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. Giant Snowman 14:30, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to List of UEFA club competition winners. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 08:24, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

List of international trophies won by European football clubs[edit]

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Table appears to be a copy of List of UEFA club competition winners. As that list is a featured list and the bulk of what is here is there, this list should be deleted. NapHit (talk) 19:41, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect as a plausable search term. Lugnuts ^{And the horse} 09:17, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Direct copy. --Arsenalkid700 (talk) 13:02, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per Lugnuts. Giant Snowman 14:31, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per Lugnuts. Rlendog (talk) 14:26, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:10, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In course of true love[edit]

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Prod declined by author, so I'm putting this up for discussion. Article about a young author's first book, published by a small publisher apparently known best for a genre called 'Hinglish'. Two references provided: one is flipkart, a sales site, and the other is to Hindustan Times, but the reference goes to today's issue and I can't see this in there (I admit to flicking through and abandoning hope at the start of the sports pages). Peridon (talk) 19:37, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete I found the article, it's on page 19 (just past the sports section). The article is barely about the book, it's more about the author (and some about his next book), which is reflected in the current WP article. I support deletion on the basis of no significant coverage of this book. I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 20:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Not notable yet.--Dwaipayan (talk) 21:18, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per Dwaipayanc and I Jethrobot. GregJackP Boomer! 01:47, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above. Even if there is one mention in the paper, that's one source. One source does not show notability, you need several of them and they just don't seem to exist at this point in time. This just isn't notable at this point in time.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 03:28, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no reliable coverage or reviews in sight. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:25, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above. Secret of success (talk) 14:52, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy deleted by Jimfbleak as A7: non-notable (non-admin technical closure). Ymblanter (talk) 07:59, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Prof.Dr.salahddin babur[edit]

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I declined A7 as there is an assertion of notability. However, there are possible copyright problems - various portions of the text show up on various sites - and the whole thing is unreadable and non-encyclopaedic. It could possibly be regarded as promotional in purpose, like a sort of unwieldy CV. The article appears to be unreferenced. Peridon (talk) 19:11, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment In an edit clash just before seeing this AfD, I deleted the majority of the article text as it was significantly matching a [BMJ review abstract] and therefore likely to match the overall article which is less visible. So there is much less in the article now, which is maybe a good things as it provides clearer focus on whether this biography meets the guidelines (WP:PROF?). AllyD (talk) 19:16, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I thought it must come from somewhere - but couldn't find it. Good work. Peridon (talk) 19:41, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I've just been trying to establish the status of 'Wilson College, London'. It doesn't appear to have an article here. Their website is plugging their 'Three week Summer Camp 2011', and they appear to offer courses in Business Management, Information Technology and English Language. Peridon (talk) 19:52, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I also can't find Prof. Babur on the Faculty list of the London Graduate School, which is a "doctoral programme, postgraduate seminar and series of events in contemporary critical theory offered across a number of venues in central London and Kingston University" http://www.thelondongraduateschool.co.uk/faculty-list/ Peridon (talk) 20:29, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, Googling for the Graduate School and Director of Health Studies leads to 6 hits - here, and prideofpakistan and LinkedIn profiles for the Professor. Peridon (talk) 20:34, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Does not meet WP:PROF.--Dwaipayan (talk) 21:20, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 08:24, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Imran Nazar Hosein[edit]

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Fails WP:BIO, no in-depth coverage of the person in secondary reliable sources Nableezy 18:45, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - While his conspiracy theories are certainly notable for their asininity (e.g. that the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami was caused by an underwater nuclear explosion, or that the Pakistan Armed Forces are secretly led by Pakistani Zionists), there don't seem to be enough third party reliable sources to sustain this article - in particular, his entire biography is unsourced. Unless additional references can be found, this article should be deleted.(Hyperionsteel (talk) 22:31, 17 August 2012 (UTC))[reply]

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Delete. Not notable, not interesting, not anything.Nishidani (talk) 07:43, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. His most notable book according to his website is : 'Jerusalem in the Quran' but I could not find any secondary reference of this. Wikipedia is not dedicated to give notoriaty to people without any. Pluto2012 (talk) 12:46, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I have a problem with MEMRI which is in my opinion a propaganda against Islam--Fluereveneno (talk) 12:46, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:15, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

PVN Acharya[edit]

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Doesn't seem to meet WP:SCHOLAR. All the references are to papers or conference presentations, etc. I can find [4] which is a casual mention of him, but Google books with variations on his name didn't produce anything useful, but others may have more luck. Dougweller (talk) 18:36, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. The article itself gives strong evidence that he doesn't meet WP:SCHOLAR (at least, assuming that whoever decided not to give him tenure did so for good reason), the citation record in Google scholar also doesn't show much evidence of impact, and there's no evidence of WP:GNG in other forms either. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:33, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Not a snowball's chance in Elbonia The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

American Trans Air Flight 131[edit]

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Non notable event. Its not even a airline incident. Flight 131 is the flight it completed earlier in the day. The plane caught fire on the ground with nobody on board. ...William 18:31, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as not notable - as the article says No one was killed in the incident, but a firefighter was struck in the face by foam and was taken to the hospital. MilborneOne (talk) 18:38, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - WP:NOTNEWS; non-notable mishap. -- WikHead (talk) 19:23, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - This wasn't even a flight. An airplane caught fire whilst sitting empty on the ground. This doesn't seem to have any significance to anything except maybe the passengers who probably got delayed and a firefighter who got some foam in his eyes. --Oakshade (talk) 21:26, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete- Completely and utterly non notable. Petebutt (talk) 15:25, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Please wait at least 3 months to renominate. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:14, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

DVBViewer[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Relisting due to a no consensus, non administrator close. Article blatently fails WP:NOTABILITY and WP:NSOFT. Every "keep vote" in the previous debate except one was created specifically for that deletion discussion. Five long term, trusted and established Wikipedia editors made reasoned arguments with clear consensus as "Delete". Article was previously deleted under PROD and once as G11 and twice created by the software's author(WP:COI), Christian Hackbart (CHackbart (talk · contribs)) and shortly after AFD nomination and an announcement on DVBViewer's forums (@ 13 August 2012 - 19:34) these WP:SPA accounts were created;

23:09, 13 August 2012 Patrick 1bc0 (talk · contribs) created a user account
20:53, 13 August 2012 Ezekial 9 (talk · contribs) created a user account

Article does contain multiple links masquerading as references, but a closer look reveals they are merely trivial coverage or mentions or in some cases have a "strong connection" with the subject. The nature being "bundled"/"included" by hardware or some other manufacturer or vendor fails the primary test of being "independent" of the subject... nor would the subject "inherit" notability due to being so closely associated. "Independent of the subject" excludes works produced by those affiliated with the subject or its creator. ...[4]". Also see See WikiProject Spam report. Hu12 (talk) 18:10, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Just for the record: I still see no proof of notability regarding this product and, for now, stand by my !vote from the last AfD. -- BenTels (talk) 19:03, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Deletion review really would have been a better idea, and since this is essentially an extension of the previous discussion, all participants there should have been notified. I've notified them now. --Philosopher ^{Let us reason together.} 19:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: only one source with significant coverage doesn't justify a separate article per WP:GNG. — — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 19:36, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Deletion review would definitely have been a better idea. You can't just relist until you get a result you like (see WP:KEEPLISTINGTILITGETSDELETED). List at DRV which is the proper venue for challenging a close.—S Marshall T/C 20:48, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and wait a while. Even after a non-consensus close, relisting immediately at AfD is very poor practice. There is much more chance of obtaining consensus and discouraging any SPAs if you wait a few weeks. I differ from others in not recommending Del Rev either--the close took account of the referencing, not vote counting. It recognized that the GNG was met, and saw the delete arguments as people insisting that higher standards should be applied to software. (I see it slightly differently, that the question was whether the other sources beyond the admitted significant review amounted to significant coverage). There was an attempt to argue that the software was not good software, basing the argument on NSOFT, which ignored the fact that NSOFT explicitly recognizes the importance of the software as an alternative to the GNG, not as an additional criterion. I think as an habitué of Del Rev that in such circumstances the del rev would have told you to wait and place a second afd. If this sounds circular, it rather means that a second attempt to delete it immediately would not get much traction anywhere. DGG ( talk ) 21:16, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep and as per DGG, wait a while. Without predjudice to the closure, immediately relisting an AfD is discouraged, and the risk is high that SPA may comment again which may possibly cloud the issue as regards notability guidelines simply resulting in no consensus again. Ideally, the outcome for this article needs to be decided one way or the other. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:05, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep: Besides the fact that the original article has been created by one of the author(s) of the software, it has been rewritten multiple times and suits the standard for software here in wikipedia more than enough. I also think (according to DGG) it is not wise to create AfD´s until the article is deleted. As far as i remembers, all tv adapters i brought here where shipped with the DVBViewer - or at least one of its derivates. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.143.29.58 (talk) 19:22, 19 August 2012 (UTC) — 87.143.29.58 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Keep with my original arguments from first nomination (read there, posting them here again would be as pointless as the second nomination directly after the first).
Additionally to the very honourable but rather general mention in PC Magazin 03/2007 I found a much more specific mention in an earlier issue of the magazine (that I had in mind initially) that is significant without doubt. In PC Magazin 10/2006 there's a 5-page article concerning DVB-S2 reception using personal computers (it was state of the art at that time, DVB-S2 PC-cards just became readily available on the market). Regarding alternative software there's a half-page-box exclusively covering DVBViewer praising and describing all of it's features. Especially BDA support for most of the (at that time) brand-new DVB-S2 cards, as well as the sophisticated rendering pipeline (allowing for decoding of the H.264/MPEG-4 AVC stream and rendering in real time) were pointed out, beeing crucial aspects of HDTV playback. --Patrick 1bc0 (talk) 00:20, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Masao Takahashi. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 08:21, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

June Takahashi[edit]

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Person of questionable notability. Google news search on "June Takahashi" shows only 13 results, with only 4 of those actually mentioning the subject only in passing. Standard search shows various social media and simple directory listings - no significant coverage of this person found. WP:NOTINHERITED from her husband. MikeWazowski (talk) 16:59, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I think you're being overzealous, and a bit sexist by suggesting that her only accomplishment is her marriage. She was one of the first Canadian women to earn a black belt in Judo and, perhaps more importantly, is the highest ranked female judoka in the country (though this rank is shared with a few other women). I look forward to hearing from other editors. CanadianJudoka (talk) 17:16, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge into Masao Takahashi There's nothing to show that she meets WP:MANOTE. As many AfD discussions have shown, a high rank is not sufficient to show notablility--a number of 10th dans have been deleted. It's not about being sexist, it's about showing notability. Papaursa (talk) 03:30, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

To my mind it is the achievement of these ranks (both black belt and now sixth-degree) as a woman in Canada that makes her notable. The idea of women practising Judo at all was controversial for quite some time, and the fact that Takahashi achieved her black belt so early, and outside of Japan, is itself significant. Her current rank is the highest achieved by any woman in Canada, and less than ten women have achieved that rank in the 100 year history of Canadian Judo. She has also played a significant role in building women's Judo in Canada, both as a coach and an administrator, but unfortunately the governing organization's documentation of this is spotty on the web. CanadianJudoka (talk) 03:51, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge I didn't find anything that shows she meets the notability criteria at WP:MANOTE or WP:GNG. Astudent0 (talk) 23:26, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into Masao Takahashi - As much as I would like to vote for Keep I am inclined to agree with comments above that state this article fails WP:MANOTE. Getting ranked internally within a system is not sufficient to establish notability. Unless there is more documentation on her role in developing women's Judo in Canada through independently verifiable sources, her lack of involvement in international competition of any kind supports a merge. In fact, the three articles for her children are in and of themselves worthy of consideration for a merge into one article for the family's legacy in Canadian Judo. Jun Kayama 21:27, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Withdrawn and Keep. (non-admin closure) TheSpecialUser ^TSU 00:22, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Staunton Mall[edit]

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This is a non-notable mall. There is some coverage, but it's all routine; changes of ownership, changes of name, and so on. Most of the coverage consists of mere mentions of the mall. — alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 16:24, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment previously deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stuanton Mall. Not sure now if that title creation was an end around protection at this title? No opinion on this article/AFD StarM 00:48, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, precedent is that malls are notable and that coverage of this source is sufficient (compare Valley Mall (Harrisonburg), which was kept in 2008 with similar levels of coverage). The first source gives significant mention of the mall in its earliest days. Further coverage here and here, along with plenty more under its early-2000s name of "Colonial Mall Staunton". The coverage already in the article looks to be more than "mere mentions" to me. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 08:48, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting; I see you sent this mall to AFD in 2007 and it was deleted, even though three of those sources you list are from prior to 2007. So things have changed by now in terms of consensus about shopping malls? The Harrisonburg Mall seems to me to have a different level of coverage, and to be a different level of thingn in terms of notability. You mentioned at my talk page that consensus is that malls are notable, but I don't see a policy. Maybe this one's not. I saw the articles you found, and it still seems routine. I actually read the two articles from the newsleader that are paywalled in your links and they didn't convince me either. I will withdraw if I'm wrong about consensus regarding malls, though. Perhaps it's time to write WP:MALLN?— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 10:07, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment—Thanks to Ten Pound Hammer for pointing out WP:NPLACE in WP:OUTCOMES, which mentions that "Larger malls are generally considered notable. Very small malls, strip malls and individual shops are generally deleted." I think I'll leave this AFD discussion running anyway, because I think the mall at hand is on the boundary. It's physically larger than a strip mall, but it's smaller by a number of important metrics than many, many strip malls, some of which get as much or more coverage (e.g. see Ten Pound Hammer's first source up there, which mentions only that two homemade bombs blew up at the mall; homemade bombs blow up at strip malls too, and lots of other places, without conferring notability). I'm serious about writing WP:MALLN if anyone's interested in thinking about it.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 15:26, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't that be WP:NMALL? - Dravecky (talk) 00:24, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. Is there some WP:SHORTCUTSTONOTABILITYSTANDARDSNAMINGCONVENTIONS page that I've missed somewhere? What shall we do about WP:LISTN?— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 00:29, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Enclosed shopping malls are considered notable. Dough 48 72 01:32, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

By whom? Is there some policy we've all missed? Shouldn't its notability be judged on the quality of the sources and the applicable notability guideline, which in this case must be the GNG? I don't want to hassle you about your opinion, but I'm really curious as to why enclosed shopping malls (and you're saying regardless of size? because there are some awfully teensy ones around) are automatically notable.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 01:52, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Enclosed malls are major commercial centers and shopping destinations for an area. They provide a lot of jobs and contribute a lot to the local economy, making them a notable part of the community. Dough 48 72 01:55, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks for your time!— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 01:57, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Inherent notability aside, there is actually a lot of news coverage of the mall. In addition to the sources already in the article, there's this report on mall vacancies, plus this article about a bookstore leaving, plus another article about the mall losing an anchor; it seems like there's been quite a bit of discussion of the mall's future in the past few years, which adds up to significant coverage. TheCatalyst31 ^{Reaction•Creation} 23:51, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Withdraw— OK, TheCatalyst convinces me. WP could probably use NMALL at some point, though. Anyone interested?— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 00:11, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedied G11.. Peridon (talk) 18:46, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Craftpro[edit]

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доктор прагматик 16:03, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy delete. Nominator did not provide any deletion rationale, but the article is a valid speedy under both G11 and A7. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 16:08, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy delete Non-ntable and spam to boot.TheLongTone (talk) 16:19, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Trailer (book). (non-admin closure) Dori ☾Talk ☯ Contribs☽ 04:24, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cinematic Book Trailer[edit]

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This is a fork of Trailer (book) which uses the adjective "cinematic" to make it seem like book trailers with higher production values are a whole new category. The only good source used, Chicago Tribune, says that book trailers have been poorly made in the past and that some are improving in quality, but does not use the term "cinematic book trailer" or state that such cinematic book trailers are a new type. Dennis Bratland (talk) 16:02, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Trailer (book) - nothing here that cannot be found there. MikeWazowski (talk) 16:22, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My main concern is that people understand the difference between a normal book trailer and a "cinematic" book trailer. There is obviously a difference, and it is starting to become a very popular form of promotion and marketing. I did not feel putting "cinematic book trailer" as a separate section in the already existing "Trailer(Book)" page would do this form of media justice. I encourage you to consider leaving this page up, but ultimately if it is decided that it is in the best interest for viewers to take it down, I will simply have to make the distinction clear on the existing "Trailer(Book)" page. I look forward to all of your advice on how we can get this issue resolved.Vvenk001 (talk) 17 August 2012 (UTC)— Vvenk001 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Are there any reliable sources that actually say that cinematic book trailers are different? There is one newspaper column and one blog post which say that some book trailers are better than others, but not that there is a new type. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:15, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. Just putting my two cents in... the idea of "cinematic book trailers" is not new. This has been done since at least the 80s, with a great early example being John Farris's Wildwood. It could still be considered somewhat traditional, but it did have acting in it. (Not great acting, but it's acting.) It's just that a lot of early book trailers tend to get forgotten because they weren't really mainstream enough to where tons of people were archiving them like the movie trailers today, so a lot of the news sources are treating it like it's a new idea to use book trailers and to have them mostly acted out. They've always been present but with the Internet making it easier to archive and watch, it just seems like it's new. I'll see what I can find, but I'm leaning towards a merge and redirect.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 04:48, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. There is a difference between the two and it’s not just production value, it’s also the form. Book trailers feature stock stills, stock video, slideshows and graphic design. Cinematic book trailers are more like movies. Some feature celebrities, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfzuOu4UIOU others don’t show the characters at all http://www.theotherhouse.com/our-work/what-the-night-knows/. Some have followed the form of the music video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SYfDafLOQk while others have been shot as full length scenes from a motion picture http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omk_tKYhf4c. There is a big difference between throwing together generic media on an iMac and the actual production of a book trailer, enough of a difference that it warrants distinction with the word “cinematic.” When you google both of them, the results and the content and the form are appropriately distinct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Henrymiller2010 (talk • contribs) 10:38, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I do know there's a difference, but the biggest part is trying to find reliable sources to back up that the term "cinematic book trailer" is anything other than a neologism to describe a higher grade of book trailers that are more like movie trailers. There are some that mention the term, but generally the trailers are just referred to by the generic "book trailer" term. I think that's what the biggest fuss is about. It's just too new of a term, so at most what it could be is a redirect to the book trailer article with a very brief mention that the higher quality trailers are called "cinematic book trailers". I've done a search throughout the night and I just don't see where the term is heavily enough used and properly sourced enough to warrant a completely separate article.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 11:16, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Trailer (book)/Delete. I've made a mention to the term in the book trailer article, but ultimately this is just a neologism used to describe a slightly different format of book trailer. A search on Google does not bring up mention of the term in the news and the literary sites that feature book trailers of this nature simply refer to them as "book trailers". Even the publishers seem to refer to them predominantly as book trailers or book commercials rather than call them cinematic book trailers. (Examples: [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], Hutton Stars in His First Book Trailer, [11]) To be honest, the only people who are predominantly referring to the trailers as "cinematic book trailers" are a group of sites that produce and sell them. (As someone who frequents many of the various book blogs, sites, and such, I can personally vouch that the term is not very widely used.) To show that the term is anything more than a neologism or a marketing term you'd have to show that the general public beyond the sellers are using it. They aren't. If I can be blunt, a redirect would actually be fairly generous when you consider that almost nobody uses the term. (I don't mean to sound harsh, but a search with "cinematic book trailers" and "cinematic book trailer" only brings up about 11-12K of results, which aren't that many.) In the end it's just a neologism and there's just not enough here to justify a separate article.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 11:16, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Well in the case of a redirect I think a distinction needs to be made on the page even if it just acknowledges the newer form that garners 11-12k hits on a search. I mean if it's not widely used enough yet to justify its own page. I'm not familiar enough with Wiki's standards to know what sort of numerical search results justify a new page. Tokyogirl79 is correct in that there are not many articles that discuss the differences between the terms. In all fairness though a search brings up way more than just production companies, in fact a lot of those "companies" are pretty difficult to find. I just did a search for the term "cinematic book trailer" and in 3 pages saw only one company and it was nowhere near the top of the results. Rather there is a list of "cinematic book trailers posted by authors or video forums such as trailerspy.com and publishers such as www.greenleafbookgroup.com. Most of the results I saw are not businesses and seem to signify that the term is used often and has a separate meaning from book trailer, but is not as popular of a term as its generic predecessor. However when you do a search for the term "book trailer," there are more companies that come up immediately than when you type the term "cinematic book trailers."henrymiller2010 —Preceding undated comment added 19:09, 18 August 2012 (UTC) — henrymiller2010 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Really, 11-12K isn't that much when it comes to ghits, not when you compare that to "book trailer" which gets over five million hits. This means that less than 1% of the internet is using this term, which means that it's not a common enough term in the grand scheme of things. (WP:NOTNEO) Wikipedia isn't a way to increase usage of this term. It's just not really a used term and it's considered a neologism. Neologisms are rarely used on Wikipedia unless they can show that it's notable and more than just a new term being thrown about. It honestly doesn't matter if a handful of people are using the term, that handful of people aren't showing that the term has any notability at this point in time.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 09:01, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The "handful" of people are very much showing that the term has notability," since many notable publishers and writers are using these cinematic book trailers and calling them that, and some of them use notable public figures in the trailers. Anthony Swofford, Adam Wilson, Julie Klam, Timothy Hutton and Eric Roberts are all notable people with wikipedia pages to back up their notoriety. These trailers were of course produced by companies or they would not exist, but they do exist and because the market is open and the term isn't as old as "book trailer" doesn't make it irrelevant or unworthy of acknowledging its existence.Vvenk001 20 August 2012 —Preceding undated comment added 08:00, 20 August 2012 (UTC) — Vvenk001 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Thing is, very few of them actually call them specifically by this name. There's some mention of "cinematic" in relation to some of the trailers, but never really enough to where this specific term is being commonly used. Again, this is a neologism and it does not warrant an article of its own. There's a mention of it in the main article for book trailers as well as a mention about the differences between trailers, but there's absolutely zero need for a separate article about this. Thing is, to show that it has any notability you'd have to show that more than a handful of people are using this term. While this doesn't mean that "cinematic book trailer" couldn't eventually become more than a neologism, it isn't a notable or well used term now. As far as notable people using the term or starring in the clips, that notability is not transferred to the term. It just means that a notable actor is starring in a trailer that the production company terms a "cinematic book trailer" or that a publishing company called a trailer cinematic or used the term once in a while. The predominant term for book trailers is "book trailer" and this is ultimately a neologism for a higher grade of trailers that everyone is predominantly (and almost exclusively) calling simply "book trailer". I'm sorry, but the term doesn't have notability simply because you believe it does. To show that a term is something other than a neologism, you need lots of sources to show that it's commonly in use. You'd have to have tons of articles that specifically use this term over a long period of time. Not drop the term "cinematic" in the article in general, but use the term "cinematic book trailer" specifically. Out of the sources given, here's what we have on the article:

[12] This one doesn't mention "cinematic" at all.
[13] This also doesn't mention the term, just has the author saying that book trailers are relatively new. (It isn't, book trailers of varying sorts have been around since at least the 80s, if not earlier.) In any case, this just doesn't show notability for the term either.
[14] This is just a YT video. At no point is this described as a "cinematic book trailer" by the publisher on this page. This can't show notability for the term.

There's a lot of mention of people calling things "cinematic book trailers" but at no point are we given links to reliable sources that are actually calling any of these book trailers "cinematic book trailers". Sure there's the people who produce the stuff calling it that, but where are the people who are saying things to back up Most recently Oscar-nominated actor Eric Roberts starred in what's being called a "cinematic book trailer" for Deborah Henry's debut novel "The Whipping Club." By that I mean that people are calling the trailer a "cinematic book trailer". I'm not questioning that various people are starring in these book trailers, just that this term is being bandied about to the degree to which you and a handful of other incredibly new users are claiming it is. You both have signed up only to edit an article about book trailers and are generally unaware of Wikipedia's notability policies and policies about neologisms. I'm not saying this to be mean, just saying that this term is too new to merit an article about this term or even really anything more than a mention that the term is being used along with various other terms to describe book trailers, if even that. It's just that new of a term and there's no guarantee that it'll ever get more of a mention than it is now. I'm also going to apologize for this if neither of you are affiliated with any of the companies mentioned in the page, but I have to ask: considering that both of you have been editing only this article and the article repeatedly hotlinks to various companies, are either of you affiliated with any of the companies listed in this article, either because you work directly for them, know someone in the company, or have been hired by the company to produce the article? There's no rule against doing this, (although you are supposed to state if you have a COI) but I'm a little worried that you might have a conflict of interest that might keep you from viewing everything as neutrally as someone who doesn't have a conflict of interest.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 06:26, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - This really just seems like an unnecesarry split from Trailer (Book), and Tokyogirl79 already merged the relevant information into that article. I suppose this page can be left as a redirect if people actually think that this may be a plausible search term. Rorshacma (talk) 17:24, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Ged UK 13:58, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sonshiny Day[edit]

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Article about a television series that does not seem to be notable. Unreferenced. No sources directly evident from Google, GNews, Gbooks. BenTels (talk) 16:01, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete. There are at least the possibility of sources ([15], [16]) but I'm not certain they are adequate in terms of depth of coverage and independence. I would suggest a redirect to Trinity Television, however that article was speedied A7 back in 2009, which doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence in articles about their individual programs. If this is salvaged, POV issues will also need to be addressed. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 16:17, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete unless something better in references appears. From the article, it doesn't look to have been up there with Sesame St or even down there with Teletubbies. Peridon (talk) 21:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) TheSpecialUser ^TSU 00:25, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Babajide Ogunbiyi[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Player who fails N:FOOTY, still fails GNG in my opinion and who was just released from a football club that is fully-pro without making an appearance (the fact that he would make an appearance was one of the reasons people used for the last AfD for keep).--Arsenalkid700 (talk) 15:36, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Speedy delete and salt. We can not discuss him every two weeks. He was proven to fail WP:NFOOTY.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:02, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – This person passes WP:BASIC and WP:GNG. Examples include: [17], [18], [19], [20], [21], [22]. Northamerica1000^(talk) 21:52, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - meets WP:GNG. Giant Snowman 14:32, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Coverage is sufficient to meet WP:GNG. Sir Sputnik (talk) 11:03, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to List of Dragonlance characters#Dragons. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 08:20, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Darlantan[edit]

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A search for reliable, secondary sources reveals an insufficient amount of significant coverage. This article fails Wikipedia's notability guidelines for fictional characters. Neelix (talk) 15:19, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge and redirect to List of Dragonlance characters#Dragons, as this is a possible search term, and that merge was already suggested on the article. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 14:16, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per Torchiest. BOZ (talk) 21:43, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Ged UK 13:56, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Jennifer Margulis[edit]

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The content in this biographical article is almost entirely unsourced. While the subject of this article is mentioned in some publications, those publications feature this person as an arbitrary example and not as the focus of the article.

This person is a magazine editor who has published many articles but so have many other editors - see WP:MILL. I assert that the sources do not verify this article's content, and that even if they did, the article's content does not establish notability. Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:48, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Although she has written many articles, I was unable to find any sources that establish the notability of Ms Margulis herself. None of the existing references support notability. From a Google search, there are blog entries such as this. Gillian Mackenzie agency doesn't seem to be a reliable third party source. (I disagree with Bluerasberry's claim that the article's content does not establish notability. If that were the case, the article would be a CSD A7 candidate.) Axl ¤ [Talk] 19:03, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. The only evident third-party verifiability here is in relation to The Vaccine War, which itself was mentioned in a very slanted manner. ("Nasty ol' pro-vac PBS slander entirely innocent Ashland mom.") The single-article single author, and the resumeish tone of the article, causes a strong suspicion of something astroturfish occurring here. Better to start again from the ground up, if broader notability is established at a later date. 84.203.39.242 (talk) 03:19, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Ged UK 13:56, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Anti shi'ism[edit]

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Unsupported piece of POV writing. A probable magnet for edit wars and POV clashes (see recent edits). Would need to be totally rewritten to be encyclopedic. Not quite an attack page speedy in my view, but... There might possibly be a valid and useful article on this topic, but this text isn't it -- this isn't any part of such an article or even a start on one. DES ^(talk) 14:34, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as nom, unless totally rewritten to comply with policies, particularly WP:NPOV. DES ^(talk) 14:36, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry for messing with you, but I'm striking your comment because you are the nominator. Usually, the nominator's nomination is a good enough way to tell people you want this article deleted, so there is no need to put in a separate !vote. It's quite confusing, too. Again, sorry for this! Michaelzeng7 (talk) 17:33, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - I sometimes nominate procedurally, articles about which i am neutral. Therefore, I always include a separate comment with a !vote after my nomination. Also, when I want to indicate an acceptable alternative such as redirection, i do so in the added comment. It also lets the closer simply look through the bolded comments. I find such helpful when i close AfDs. A strike out implies that i have changed my views, which i have not here. Please do not so adjust my comments in future. DES ^(talk) 18:38, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the material currently present. I think that the topic could probably support an article (although I'm not persuaded it would be under this name), but I have absolutely no concerns about the need to preserve the current material from a licensing perspective; what is here now is really not compatible with a NPOV Wikipedia article as the community understands it. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 15:29, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Squeamish. Michaelzeng7 (talk) 17:36, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:11, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

OpenEmulator[edit]

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Not notable, just an ad. Content is just a POV list of features. All Google hits are just web pages for the product itself or announcements by the developer. Not a significant product, not important. Doesn't deserve an article. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 13:27, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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weak delete I'm inclined to keep this, as emulators, even with poorly written articles, are an interesting topic. However they have to make some effort at writing style, sourcing and demonstrating notability. This one just isn't trying. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:32, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Please keep this. There are numerous hits on Google (see), which indicate the widespread knowledge under professionals (I mean people who know something about emulators). I do agree emulators are an interesting topic. I'm from Belgium and even I know it. Also, the Dutch Wikipedia has an article about OpenEmulator. I will try to make this article more neutral and wikify it a bit. Kind regards, Smile4ever (talk) 07:50, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't mean it's notable enough to merit an article. Most of the hits on the first page of results (via Google) are from the developer of OpenEmulator. This software just hasn't garnered much attention. I wouldn't be opposed to an article sometime in the future when it gains more notability. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 14:00, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I have also edited the article to keep only the barest necessary descriptions. --Gortu (talk) 20:26, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I assume this is a keep vote then? The article doesn't have to be bare and, as a matter of fact, shouldn't. It just needs to be NPOV and needs to demonstrate why it's notable, by verifiable third-party references. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 22:49, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. No prejudice towards a quicker than normal renomination. (Please wait at least one month.) Mark Arsten (talk) 17:10, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Genesis 1:5[edit]

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Delete. The page contains very little commentary, and even that reads like obvious WP:OR. It would be possible to create an article, but this is not it. I cannot even see any point keeping the page history behind a redirect. I voted to keep Genesis 1:2 after it was expanded, but unless Genesis 1:5 is improved shortly then it should go. – Fayenatic London 13:01, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete or Redirect. Intro definitely reads like wp:or; and is already covered in Genesis creation narrative and Bereishit (parsha). Thanks, — Jasonasosa 14:44, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - A bible verse translation center is another thing that Wikipedia is not. Carrite (talk) 15:16, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Poor writing is not a reason for deletion. This article clearly passes our general notability guideline, as a simple Google Books search demonstrates. If the article cannot currently stand on its own, it should be redirected to Genesis creation narrative. There is no added benefit to getting rid of the page history. Neelix (talk) 15:28, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~. I'm not convinced that this is the manner we're best served in presenting information about these Biblical passages. While it's true that probably every Bible verse has seem some examination by religious scholars, theologians, and textual interpreters in the intervening centuries (since versification in the 1550s), I'm dubious that most Bible verses are a "topic" in and of themselves rather than a component of the wider whole. The minutiae of Shakespeare's works have been well-examined, but we present articles about his plays, not about each act. Certainly, there are going to be some Bible verses that have attracted particularly renowned focus such that we can craft an in-depth article: John 3:16, John 11:35, and, yes, probably Genesis 1:1, for example. But I don't see that here, and the state of the article does nothing to convince me otherwise. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 16:37, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect. My rationale has not changed, but there's no compelling reason to expunge the page history and this is a plausible search term. I'm ambivalent as to whether Genesis creation narrative or Book of Genesis is the more appropriate destination, however. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 16:39, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Book of Genesis, at least until a content fork is necessary. §everal⇒|Times 21:03, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The first few verses of Genesis have thousands of years of detailed Christian and Jewish commentary. There is plenty of material for an article here, as there was for Genesis 1:4. -- 202.124.72.43 (talk) 05:43, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- My problem with these by-verse Bible articles is that the above statement, strictly speaking, isn't true. For example, while the Zohar engaged in a great deal of detailed analysis and interpretation of Torah passages, it is inaccurate to say that it did so by verse, because the Zohar predates Biblical versification. Rather, any source prior to ~1550 necessarily examined Biblical passages in a larger context (and most after that date have done so as well): either by book, by narrative section, or in some cases, by parshah. I do not dispute that there has been a great deal of historical attention paid to these words; I dispute that they are independently significant, any more than each act and scene of a notable play is, itself, worthy of an independent article. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 14:26, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - I think that adds to the case for merging this (and verse 3) into the page on verse 4. – Fayenatic London 19:42, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - The thousands of years of commentary may pre-date versification, but since the commentary is by sentence it corresponds to the versified structure. Merger is a possibility, but there is more than enough material for an article here, if someone will make the effort. -- 202.124.72.134 (talk) 01:39, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The interpretation from the Kabbalah can probably be expanded significantly, but would need more expertise than I have. -- 202.124.74.10 (talk) 11:52, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Genesis 1:4. The two verses together constitute a single "incident" in the creation story. The other verse now has a substantial aricle - unless substantially expanded. Note my vote on Genesis 1:4 is to Keep. Peterkingiron (talk) 20:21, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- As nominator, I have no objection to merging this page into Genesis 1:4 now that the latter has been expanded and improved. In fact, merging Genesis 1:3 into it as well might be a good outcome, as these three verses form a closely connected narrative of the first day. I suggest that the merged article should initially be moved to Genesis 1:3–5, pending a separate discussion on renaming e.g. to First day of Creation, Creation of light (Bible) or Let there be light (Bible). – Fayenatic London 13:49, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep because Genesis 1:1-5 (i.e. the first five verses of the Book of Genesis) are one logical set that contains the details of the First Day of creation according to the Bible, that would make them a key axiom and foundation for everything else that follows in the Bible. That is why thus far multiple AfDs to do away with the first 2 verses' articles have failed, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Genesis 1:1 (2nd nomination) & Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Genesis 1:2 (2nd nomination) and why this article as well as the two others about Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:4 are to be kept as a complete coherent set since it makes no sense that there are articles for the first two verses of Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 describing the First Day of Creation (i.e. the most important event when everything begins according to Judeo-Christian civilization), and not for the three others that are part of one set. No one imagines that a famous paragraph consisting of five sentences (the Bible's opening paragraph) should only cite two sentences, as that would make no sense even in human terms. Thus these are both WP:N and there are plenty of WP:RS to back them up as they could obviously be developed even more. IZAK (talk) 20:23, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I think this argument actually underscores the reason why this material shouldn't be presented in this manner. No one is arguing that Wikipedia should not discuss the opening lines of Genesis. The references which discuss this material do not examine each line in isolation; they interpret these verses as part of a wider whole -- a "coherent set". Indeed, before 1550, there was no division of the material into verses at all! Your comparison is apt, however; we would not have separate articles for only a couple sentences out of a famous paragraph ... but that is because we would not partition that paragraph out into articles for each sentence whatsoever (for example, Four score and seven years ago is a redirect to Gettysburg Address). Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 20:29, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Hi Squemish: Either the first five verses are kept together as a unit, and improved, or they do not make sense separated from each other. The importance of the first two verses has been acknowledged and affirmed by multiple AfDs, but in terms of logic and coherence they can only make sense if all five verses are cited. But they should not be split up and palmed off into "themes" because that's not how the Bible is read and understood. As for your contention that "before 1550, there was no division of the material into verses at all!" you are wrong because in Judaism there are verses and smaller divisions and the first five verses are one unit, see Parashah#Spacing techniques, this goes back way before the 1500s, to the +-3000 year Masoretic Text. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 20:41, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - You are entirely correct that the parashot predate the versification of the Bible (indeed, even some of the Dead Sea Scrolls use a system of spacing), however the parashot differ from versification in a number of aspects, including, most importantly, the fact that they are not numbered (some have specific names, but this isn't one of them). Prior to Robert Estienne, there was no term of reference specifically to the segment of text now considered Genesis 1:5. With the history aside, I still haven't seen any evidence that there are sources which discuss this verse in isolation. Certainly there are sources which examine this verse, but only in some wider context. That is true of both of the cited references. Kissling spends page 101 discussing this verse, to be certain, but that is in the wider context of an examination of the first day, and then again in a wider context of the entire creation narrative (see the structural outline on p.53); it is even more true of the Zohar, which predates the modern system of versification entirely. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 21:21, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

*Merge: Genesis 1:3–5 although a good proposal from Fayenatic london (talk · contribs), conflicts with Genesis 1:1-3 (In the beginning). So now we are at a tug of war for verse 3. So, perhaps there is consideration to merge them all into Genesis 1:1-5 as IZAK (talk · contribs) put it "the first five verses of the Book of Genesis) are one logical set that contains the details of the First Day of creation according to the Bible". Thanks, — Jasonasosa 21:13, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

- Actually, Genesis creation narrative seems hazy on where verse 3 belongs, and there's also too much material to merge Genesis 1:1, Genesis 1:2, Genesis 1:3, Let there be light, Genesis 1:4, and Genesis 1:5 together. -- 202.124.72.134 (talk) 01:39, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Let there be light is an article on the use of the phrase in culture; that page again has a distinct scope, and I don't think anyone is proposing to merge it. – Fayenatic London 13:47, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The material added to the article, as well sthe numerous sources available that address this specific verse, demonstrate its notability on a standalone basis. The foucs on this article should be on expansion, rather than deletion. Alansohn (talk) 21:34, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Agreed; there's no doubt that enough material exists in Jewish and Christian commentary for such an expansion. I've added a bit more, and could go on for pages if I had the time. -- 202.124.72.134 (talk) 01:52, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: And that brings me to another point... The discussion at Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not#Proposal, Masem (talk · contribs) states, "It is the content of these articles that must not be made into devotional compendiums. And its clear that consensus is that some of these, like the parshas, are written inappropriately for Wikipedia because they are based on teaching the faith, not summarizing it. --MASEM (t) 16:37, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

So I argue that the Genesis creation narrative serves to summarize, encyclopedicly, what ought to be addressed. For the amount of commentaries just on Gen. 1-5 alone, may teeter off into POV commentaries that might bog the article down into wp:undue, when all that is needed is a proper summary of terms and phrases from mainstream and appropriate minor groups which is already attempted at both the Genesis creation narrative article and Jewish commentaries at Bereishit (parsha). Why do we need to duplicate such material into undue weight? Thanks, — Jasonasosa 08:56, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Right now, there is approximately +28,190 bytes worth of Jewish commentary specifically for Genesis 1:1-5 at Bereishit (parsha). — Jasonasosa 09:21, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand your point. Genesis 1:1, Genesis 1:2, Genesis 1:4, and Genesis 1:5 are appropriate spin-off articles of Genesis creation narrative (the latter article would be too long if it absorbed those articles). These spin-off articles are encyclopaedic and do not breach WP:UNDUE. Bereishit (parsha) does seem to be an article with a specifically Jewish POV, but even if that's the case, it's not really a point for this AfD. -- 202.124.75.67 (talk) 09:48, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What I'm saying is... Genesis creation narrative and Bereishit (parsha) are good enough and do not need spin offs. Thanks, — Jasonasosa 13:24, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Those both have much wider scope, and the content of these pages would unbalance them. IMHO Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 are preliminary to the six days, but verses 3-5 go together as a narrative of Day 1, hence my merge proposal. I don't understand the alleged conflict with Genesis 1:1-3 (which was deleted years ago). BTW I revised Genesis creation narrative#In the beginning, during the course of this discussion, moving (inter alia) verse 3 into Day 1, as that and other headings were previously in a muddled order; even then I didn't get it quite right (sorry), but hope that it is now clear. – – Fayenatic London 13:58, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Those articles have wider scope, but insufficient depth, given the history and influence of these initial verses of Genesis. It seems there's an WP:IDONTLIKEIT argument here. Fayenatic's suggestion of a merge is a viable possibility, although I still think this article can fly on its own. -- 202.124.72.215 (talk) 23:17, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per IZAK et al. This issue appears to have been dealt with in previous AfDs.75.150.187.201 (talk) 14:09, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per IZAK --Yoavd (talk) 14:10, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- IZAK actually wrote in favour of keeping these verses "together as a unit". I don't see anything in his contribution which would oppose merger of verses 3, 4 and 5. – Fayenatic London 17:20, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: This is not forum for an extended commentary and cross-comparision on every scriptural verse in the Bible, Koran, Talmud, Rig Veda, Upanishad, etc, etc. this is where this leads. This should primarily be kept (as much as possible) to topics and subjects not a continuous or consecutive list of verses of scripture with separate articles. I am sure there is a Bible Wiki out there somewhere for that.Iconoclast.Horizon (talk) 17:05, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Withdraw opinion: I withdraw my above opinions and 'vote' regarding the further creation and expansion of individual verse expanded article listings. I do not support further biblical verse article listings or expansions and feel the issues here with these articles are not solvable by AfD discussion and should arise organically through the primary contributing editors. So let it be done. Iconoclast.Horizon (talk) 19:22, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody is proposing to take this series further than verse 5. Certain introductory passages and other verses are notable on their own, e.g. John 1:1. IMHO the articles on Genesis 1:1 and verse 2 are now worth keeping, but verses 3 to 5 would be better together. – Fayenatic London 17:20, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Changing my opinion to Merge this and verse 3 into the better article on verse 4. While this AFD has been running, the page has been expanded a little, but is still not as convincing as a standalone article as Genesis 1:4. – Fayenatic London 17:20, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~::Which again conflicts with Genesis 1:1-3 as a set for (In the beginning). So we are back to a tug-of-war for verse 3. Thanks, — Jasonasosa 17:40, 21 August 2012 (UTC)~~[reply]

Comment: My suggestion, as other's here have mentioned as well, is to where this individual extended verse commentary ARTICLE listing leads. The articles and information should be limited and kept from "scope-creep", and listed as topics and subject titles and/or merged with such. Delete the listing, merge all information on the subject it addresses into one article. (Was addressing Fayenatics's comments.) No need for "tug-of wars". Iconoclast.Horizon (talk) 17:45, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~:::The merge proposed creates a tug of war between Gen.1:1-3 (even if stand alone articles) and Gen.1:3-5 (even if merged as one article). Thanks, — Jasonasosa 18:08, 21 August 2012 (UTC)~~[reply]

Merge per Fayenatic london (talk · contribs); I now support a merge for Genesis 1:3-5. I was mistaken about verse 3. I checked 13:54, 21 August 2012‎ Fayenatic london (talk - contribs)‎ . . (66,721 bytes) (+23)‎ . . ("1:1–1:2–3 " seems to have been a typo; article consistently refers to 1:1–2:3, i.e. the first chapter plus the first three verses of chapter 2 as a single pericope) (undo) and this user is correct per Levenson, Jon D. (2004). "Genesis: introduction and annotations". In Berlin, Adele; Brettler, Marc Zvi. The Jewish study Bible. Oxford, p. 13. Thanks, — Jasonasosa 18:42, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I oppose the creation of an article called "Genesis 1:3-5" because it sets bad precedent, suggesting that an article can deal with a string of verses that have a subjective beginning and end point (here, Genesis 1:3 and 1:5). Groupings of verses are valid subjects for Wikipedia articles, but the groupings themselves should have named precedent in the secondary literature (ex. Abraham and Lot's conflict, Blessing of Jacob, Confusion of tongues). Neelix (talk) 14:25, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nelix, Fayenatic london (talk · contribs) already proposed a renaming for Genesis 1:3–5 after said page is created. If you notice above, the User suggested First day of Creation, Creation of light (Bible) or Let there be light (Bible) as possible name changes. — Jasonasosa 15:46, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is such a subject here: "First day of creation". See e.g. The New American Commentary Volume 1 - Genesis 1-11, page 145. I suggested this and alternative titles above. – Fayenatic London 14:39, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am not opposing a merger; I am opposing the initial move to "Genesis 1:3-5". If we cannot decide on a more well-accepted title, then perhaps we are not selecting the appropriate string of verses. Neelix (talk) 14:00, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well then, I propose moving the merged page straight First day of Creation. – Fayenatic London 17:43, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. Since this is the forum for discussing Genesis 1:3, it would see that if it's not going to be kept, the most natural thing to do would be to redirect it to Let there be light rather than Genesis 1:4. St Anselm (talk) 20:55, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:4 should both be redirected to Let there be light and then Genesis 1:5 can be deleted. — Jasonasosa 21:03, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, because the community consensus is to keep Genesis 1:4. St Anselm (talk) 21:07, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that seems strange to redirect Genesis 1:3 while having Genesis 1:4 to stand alone, when they are part of the same subject. meh — Jasonasosa 21:36, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. If Genesis 1:3 is going to be merged, content should probably go into both Let there be light and Genesis 1:3–5 (possibly to be renamed). Then the relation of those two articles should be looked at. I still think that Genesis 1:5 is fine on it's own however. I've seen no policy-based arguments for getting rid of it. -- 202.124.72.43 (talk) 22:28, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The current article Let there be light seems to be a kind of "Genesis 1:3 in popular culture." It's probably not a good merge target for Genesis 1:3. -- 202.124.73.175 (talk) 10:37, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That an article is not well-written yet doesn't mean that it isn't a good merger target. Neelix (talk) 14:07, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think the current article Let there be light should be left, separate from the discussion of the meaning of the Biblical verses. The split is also about right already. Even though it has a section on etymology, there's a reason for that being on that page: to explain the two different Latin translations which are used as mottos. – Fayenatic London 17:43, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I do not endorse merging Genesis 1:3, if Genesis 1:4 is not going to be merged either. Either they all stand alone or redirect them all. Thanks, — Jasonasosa 22:47, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Redirecting Genesis 1:4 is not an option, since consensus was to keep that article. -- 202.124.72.43 (talk) 23:14, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, we got that already... — Jasonasosa 00:17, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The decision to keep Genesis 1:4 after it was expanded is no bar against merging smaller articles into it, nor against renaming (moving & redirecting) accordingly. – Fayenatic London 17:43, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is no reason to make this all-or-nothing. All of these verses are sufficiently notable to stand on their own if they were only sufficiently worked-on; the fact that Genesis 1:4 is already sufficiently worked-on to stand on its own simply means that it is a sub-article of the overarching article, whatever that is determined to be. Neelix (talk) 14:07, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How would you demonstrate that each of these verses is sufficiently notable? There's plenty of Biblical commentary on just about any verse, but not every verse has wider cultural significance deserving an article in a general encyclopedia. I'm satisfied of notability in the cases of verse 1 & v2, but it seems to me that 3-5 make a better unit (first day of creation) to be discussed as a combined text rather than each having a page on their own. (See e.g. the layout of Gen 1:1–13 in the NIV.) For the record, I do not envisage that additional articles should be created for Day 2 etc; Day 1 has more notability, because it's the first, and because of the cultural resonances. – Fayenatic London 17:43, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I stand more strongly with Fayenatic london (talk · contribs)'s argument. — Jasonasosa 18:15, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure how you are defining "wider cultural significance"; that is not a term used in our notability guidelines. All of the notability guidelines I can see are clearly passed by each of these verses. Neelix (talk) 13:56, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. There's more than enough reliable sources for Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:5 to take them up to the level of Genesis 1:4, which was kept. Genesis 1:3 is particularly notable because of the phrase let there be light, but both Genesis 1:4 and Genesis 1:5 satisfy WP:N as well. The fact that only some sources are currently in the articles is not a reason for deletion; AfD decisions are made on the basis of what the article could become. -- 202.124.75.38 (talk) 14:23, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 08:18, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comparison of United States presidential candidates, 2012[edit]

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What is this? This could possibly be an article some day, but now it's just a serious of mostly disconnected links about NASA and the Armenian Genocide. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:47, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~Weak keep~~ Seems like it was created as a shell equivalent to Comparison of United States presidential candidates, 2008, which is a good article, but nothing has been built here outside of a skeleton list of links. Definitely can do with an expansion to resemble the 2008 article, though it definitely needs TLC in the next seven days. None however and I would argue for delete if it hasn't been built up. Nate • (chatter) 08:55, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Change to Delete Obvious that no expansion has taken place outside of the additions of hemp/marijuana headings that probably will never be addressed. Userfy is possible if someone picks up the ball, but this article can't continue in this form. Nate • (chatter) 06:09, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. It's already been around for three months, with no substantive activity and still no content. Wasted Time R (talk) 11:28, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. The 2008 version is a good and useful article; it would seem that the 2012 contest would merit a similar article. This, at least in its current form, ain't it. Is there enough useful formatting or (cited!) information to warrant a move into the userspace as a draft? UltraExactZZ ^Said~ Did 14:55, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or Userfy as a draft, per UltraExactZZ, if possible. Has potential to be a legitimate article like its 2008 predecessor, and can be recreated if and when actual content is added. Until then, however, it is little more than an unencyclopedic collection of wikilinks.--JayJasper (talk) 18:07, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This page could be very important very soon. I think we should add to it rather than delete it.--pauperoooonnndkj
Delete a bunch of empty sections with headings of issues and some internal links, please Go Phightins! (talk) 02:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete as hoax ... discospinster _talk 12:11, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

TOP_BOY_(Costarrica's_Next_Top_Model),_Cycle_2[edit]

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/TOP BOY (Costarrica's Next Top Model), Cycle 2

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May fail WP:Crystal? It's an upcoming television show and the article has no citations and the show hasn't even aired yet. SarahStierch (talk) 07:15, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:59, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Blue Parkway[edit]

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A street, with no apparent notability. PROD was removed by original editor without comment. PamD 06:50, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep and then merge and redirect to U.S. Route 56#Missouri; this is valid information about a portion of a numbered U.S. highway (and there's actually more in the history of this article about other portions of the route). --Arxiloxos (talk) 14:57, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Non-notable road, and likely an ambiguous redirect. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 21:12, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Ordinary city street. Dough 48 72 12:58, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and Swope Parkway should probably go too. --Rs chen 7754 16:33, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/Redirect per Arxiloxos --VikÞor | Talk 19:50, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete—per Bushranger. Imzadi 1979 → 12:01, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm adding in Swope Parkway to this nomination. The same rationale applies as they were split out of the same sandboxed page history. Imzadi 1979 → 06:52, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge/Redirect to U.S. Route 56#Missouri, and I may even do it myself. ----DanTD 20:23, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- The same goes for Swope Parkway ----DanTD 20:25, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:59, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Jill McCormick[edit]

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Fails ~~Wikipedia:Notability (people)~~ Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Entertainers and WP:BLP. Very hard to find sources about her except for the wedding and her model 'profile'. This article nominated for deletion in 2005 before there was a policy for sources. It passed on the fact that she was featured on magazines but it's unsourced still. I can't find a source on it except for mirrors. Everyone Dies In the End (talk) 04:12, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - For the reasons cited in the 2005 deletion discusion. Jrcrin001 (talk) 05:26, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

First, there's only ONE reason from the previous discussion and I just explained that they are NO sources for it (she appearing in magazines which fails the 'modern day' ~~Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Pornographic_actors_and_models~~Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Entertainers). It also has never been proven that she appeared in any of those. Which I blatantly said in the nomination. If you find a source on that, then and only that does the the 2005 deletion discussion applies. --Everyone Dies In the End (talk) 09:55, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I see three sources in the article currently, and we have[23][24][25][26] Darkness Shines (talk) 19:56, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Marrying a Rock Star doesn't make the person notable. (see Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Family) I mean seriously? Should every singers partner get an article. Because all their wedding make the news with their partners names. And that's the only sources you found. Nothing about her. I mean you need sources about her notability and that's about her modeling career. That's the only reason she can have notability (and subsequently an article). Marrying a Rock Star doesn't make her notable nor do the sources about them. Find a source about her modeling career and not one that's tied to her marriage to Eddie Vedder. I repeat again. You won't find one. I've tried. You don't even address if she meets ~~Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Pornographic_actors_and_models~~Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Entertainers.--Everyone Dies In the End (talk) 09:55, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment The following links may be useful.

http://jillmccormick.iwarp.com/
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/gossip/2010/09/eddie-vedder-jill-mccormick-married.html
http://www.celebritybabyscoop.com/category/eddie-vedder
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_gender_and_name_of_Eddie_Vedder's_second_child_with_Jill_McCormick
Jrcrin001 (talk) 06:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment 2 - the following may be even better.

http://www.fashionmodeldirectory.com/models/jill_mccormick
http://www.spokeo.com/Jill+Mccormick+1
http://www.pxdrive.com/album/JILL+MCCORMICK_pictures_gsiapic/
http://www.ask.com/questions-about/Jill-McCormick-Model
http://www.in.com/jill-mccormick/profile-1949053.html
http://www.fanpix.net/gallery/jill-mccormick-pictures.htm
http://blog.zap2it.com/pop2it/2010/09/jill-mccormick-lily-aldridge-stephanie-seymour-balthazar-getty---couple-news.html
http://www.fashionmodeldirectory.com/models/jill_mccormick/showphoto/86289/
http://www.pixmule.com/jill-mccormick/3/
Jrcrin001 (talk) 07:11, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Afghan detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:02, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mohammed Kamin[edit]

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On a living Guantanamo prisoner . Fails WP:BLP1E, WP:NOTINHERITED, WP:BIO. There are no secondary sources to claim notability of the subject and the citations used are WP:PRIMARY sources (WP:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 84#Reliability of US military summary reports) DBigXray 10:52, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - WP:BLP1E - low profile person whose role role isnt "substantial and well-documented" Crystalfile (talk) 11:35, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Another Guantanamo article which fails the notability guidelines. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 13:31, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep—Are you kidding? USA Today article on the guy, Reuters article on the guy, The Terrorist List entry on the guy. These are not mentions, but actual items solely about this person. He meets the GNG with ease.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 16:15, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No I am not kidding here. The two article you quoted both are on the "Subject's Gitmo Trial" and the Terrorist List is a comprehensive list which only mentions why he was arrested. All it proves that he was a foot soldier among the thousands of Jehadist warriors and does not prove notability. also fails WP:BLP1E--DBigXray 16:57, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Are you kidding when you say they're both about the "Gitmo Trial"? They're both about the subject in their entirety. Each of the two articles is solely about him.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 17:02, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No I am not kidding both the articles are on the "Subject's Gitmo Trial" bolded and added if it wasnt clear in my earlier comment--DBigXray 17:07, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge and redirect to Afghan detainees at Guantanamo Bay. While, as noted, he does not pass the bar for a stand-alone article, he is suitable for inclusion in the list. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:01, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and redirect to Afghan detainees at Guantanamo Bay. No significant coverage of the individual, from what I have searched in possible reliable sources appear to be found for the subject to pass WP:GNG. There are multiple mentions of the subject in relation to the subject's detention, and the ongoing interaction of the subject with the judicial process at Guantanamo Naval Base however the coverage has been more about those two events than the subject of the biography article; therefore, it is my opinion that the subject does not pass WP:ANYBIO or WP:SOLDIER. That being said the subject is a member of a notable group, and therefore a redirect can be made to said notable group.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 04:53, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - We know next to nothing about the subject of this article because he lacks "significant coverage" in reliable sources. Therefore he is not notable under WP:GNG. Anotherclown (talk) 06:00, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, per nom. Too little significant and specific coverage by secondary reliable sources, fails WP:GNG and WP:BIO. Given that the creator of this article has created what appears to be dozens or more likely hundreds similar articles on manifestly non-notable individuals that are currently sitting in mainspace and need to be deleted, the "merge" option is unrealistic here. Nobody has the time to sift through this mountain of obscure non-notable material and figure out what and how and where may be merged here. It should simply be deleted, period. Nsk92 (talk) 13:43, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - BLP1E. Being detained, even in Gitmo, is not a notable event. Subject fails to satisfy the general notability guidelines. Tarc (talk) 15:44, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Afghan detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:03, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gholam Ruhani[edit]

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On a living Guantanamo prisoner. Fails WP:BLP1E, WP:NOTINHERITED, WP:BIO, WP:GNG. There are no secondary sources to claim notability of the subject and the citations used are WP:PRIMARY sources (WP:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 84#Reliability of US military summary reports) DBigXray 11:06, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Another Guantanamo article which fails the notability guidelines. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 13:31, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as notable subject that passes WP:GNG- Was the subject of a fairly deep Washington Post article detailing his capture and detainment. Additional details and writings about him from the AP, and the Miami Herald show continued, significant coverage. --Joshuaism (talk) 14:41, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The subject of WP article was "Guantanamo prison and prisoners imprisoned since 5 years", and it mentions Ruhani's case along with few others while talking about the prison. There is a difference.

Also, how a two line statement by the subject is equivalent to significant coverage is beyond my understanding--DBigXray 14:52, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge and redirect to Afghan detainees at Guantanamo Bay - fails WP:BLP1E, no significant coverage - only passing mentions. Suitiable for inclusion in the list, though. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:00, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and redirect to Afghan detainees at Guantanamo Bay; multiple passing mentions of the subject, but nothing that I would consider significant coverage per WP:GNG. The Washington Post article linked by Joshuaism, had several paragraphs about the subject, however in reading the total article (3 pages) the main coverage was about the group of long-term unlawful combatants as a whole, and spoke of others in the group, but none that I would consider significantly; therefore, the subject of the article being considered is not the primary subject of the source. Additionally, the AP article gives a one paragraph brief of each unlawful combatant being held from Afghanistan, but one paragraph does not significant coverage make, IMHO. That being said the group of detainees are notable, not necessarily the individual members of said group.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 04:43, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Despite claims to the contrary above we actually know very little about the subject of this article becausethe coverage of the subject isn't signficant at all. Not notable under WP:GNG. Anotherclown (talk) 06:04, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, per nom. Too little coverage by secondary reliable sources, fails WP:GNG and WP:BIO. Given that the creator of this article has created what appears to be dozens or more likely hundreds similar articles on manifestly non-notable individuals that are currently sitting in mainspace and need to be deleted, the "merge" option is unrealistic here. Nobody has the time to sift through this mountain of obscure non-notable material and figure out what and how and where may be merged here. It should simply be deleted, period. Nsk92 (talk) 13:41, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - BLP1E. Being detained, even in Gitmo, is not a notable event. Subject fails to satisfy the general notability guidelines. Tarc (talk) 15:45, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:07, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Abdul Zahir (Guantanamo Bay detainee 753)[edit]

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On a living Guantanamo prisoner. Fails WP:BLP1E, WP:NOTINHERITED, WP:BIO. There is a lack of WP:SIGCOV to claim notability of the subject other than court case and few of the citations used are WP:PRIMARY sources (WP:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 84#Reliability of US military summary reports) DBigXray 13:36, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Like many similar articles, this topic also has no secondary coverage. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 13:47, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge and redirect to Afghan detainees at Guantanamo Bay per nom. - The Bushranger _{One ping only}
Delete, after searching for news and book mentions, did not find any reliable sources to warrant the subject would pass WP:GNG, or WP:BIO.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 05:40, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:BLP1E Nick-D (talk) 11:06, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- I made some changes to bring this article up to date. I believe these edits show that the comments from those who favor deletion, due to a lack of references that establish notability should be discounted by the closing administrator -- it is just not true.
Only ten captives faced charges before the Presidentially authorized Military Commissions -- the ones struck down by the Supreme Court as unconsistutional. Zahir was the last one. I believe there is a meme shared by those who advocate deletion of the Guantanamo captives -- namely that events there are routine, mundane, not of out of the ordinary -- and thus not worthy of coverage. We don't cover certain kinds of routine events, even if the press has given them extensive coverage. I agree with this principle. I strongly disagree with the notion that the detention of the Guantanamo captives is routine.
My personal interpretation that conditions there are not routine is no more relevant than the personal interpretation of those in the delete camp that conditions are routine. What is relevant is what WP:RS said about Zahir's detention. I think the WP:RS clearly support Zahir's notability. Take the charges against him, and the hearings of his military commission.
- Legal critics point out that the main charge against him -- conspiracy to commit a war crime -- was not considered a war crime under international law;
- The rules required the prosecution to privide him with a translation of the charges against him into a language he could read. The prosecution did not prepare a translation, so he could participate in his own defense, and was not able to explain why this wasn't done.
- The prosecution could not explain why they did not hire a translator, for the hearing, so he could participate in his own defense.
- At his hearing the Judge could not tell his military defense attorney what laws and legal system he would be using. When pressed, he snapped at the defense attorneys.
- Strikingly, many of the reports from 2006, incorrectly stated Zahir did not have a civilian attorney present before the military commission, because he did not have a civilian attorney. Carol Rosenberg, the best and hardest working journalist covering Guantanamo, on the other hand, did interview Zahir's civilian attorney,the one who had initiated a writ of habeas corpus on his behalf. She reported that he learned of the charges against his client by reading about them in the newspaper. This was, I suggest, remarkable. I want to be careful not to lapse from WP:SYNTH in covering this. Geo Swan (talk) 18:07, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - You continue to assume bad faith, and also he still does not meet WP:BLP1E for significant coverage outside of the one event (the trial). - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:10, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I think there are enough significant citations and quality sources to justify notability. Bearian (talk) 21:17, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing is never an adequate counter-argument for a one-event individual. Tarc (talk) 13:37, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I take issue with some of Geo Swan's comments. I don't think that anyone believes that "the detention of the Guantanamo captives is routine." The detention is most certainly notable, but that does not necessarily confer notability on the detainees. By similar reasoning, one can say that the Oklahoma City bombing was far from routine, but few if any of the victims of that attack were considered notable. •••Life of Riley (T–C) 05:04, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - subject lacks "significant coverage" in reliable sources as is therefore not notable under WP:GNG. Anotherclown (talk) 05:57, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - BLP1E. Being detained, even in Gitmo, is not a notable event. Subject fails to satisfy the general notability guidelines. Tarc (talk) 15:43, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The requirement for significant coverage in reliable sources has been met and Zahir is notable as being one of the few detainees to face the Guantanamo military commissions. Not a WP:BLP1E as Zahir is not "likely to remain, a low-profile individual" considering he is still incarcerated (how many people remain at Guantanamo?) and we can assume that having been accused of a high-profile attack against a notable journalist he will likely be charged again in the next judicial system set up to try Guantanamo detainees. --Joshuaism (talk) 13:13, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Significant coverage in reliable sources does not overcome BLP1E, and being incarcerated does not somehow invalidate the "low-profile" aspect of BLP1E. If all you can say about the man is "he's in prison", then there is zero justification for an article. Tarc (talk) 13:37, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is significant that we can expect to be hearing about Zahir every three years until his release under Obama's plan. If he is a "low-profile" prisoner we should expect to see him released and never heard from again, otherwise it is safe to assume he is the worst of the worst. --Joshuaism (talk) 14:36, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 09:32, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Clearly, WP:CRYSTALBALL does not apply. First line, "Wikipedia is not a collection of unverifiable speculation." He's detained, has been detained and the likelihood (as by comment) of remaining detained has nothing to do with WP:CRYSTALBALL. Meets GNG, if these numerous sources don't meet GNG, nothing will, more exist that are not cited as well. Also, the 'low profile' or 'high profile' comments matter not, as if Wikipedia is a collection of the X most important topics, the only thing that truly matters is that we can properly account for information in the article without original research under GNG which states, "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article or stand-alone list." Who cares about some 'notability guideline', the guide is used to state 'whom' or 'what' MAY be notable, with a criteria upon which notability is assumed. GNG is a policy and has a broad use and interpretation, all of which have been met by even the most high of expectations. Even if you argue over WP:NTEMP its a one way road in this case, as the subject still is being written about 6 years later, and BP1E should not apply to an on-going matter of which is a hotly debated legal potato. 1E should be more on '1 day' or '1 week', because some individuals are notable for just that long through the media, but 6 years is quite different. Deletion serves to REDUCE information here, and without merit. Not every person is notable for being in a jail, but Gitmo is a weird case, largely condemned by one side, cautiously supported by another, yet the individuals themselves are denied rights and processes of their nations. Such individuals held in this 'extra-judical' case are easy to argue as notable, because of the circumstances of their imprisonment. If the individual meets GNG, then it is presumed notable. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 21:01, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to San Francisco State University#Campus Buildings. (non-admin closure) TheSpecialUser ^TSU 00:27, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cesar Chavez Student Center[edit]

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Non-notable and I haven't found any third-party sources to confirm notability. The only links I have found are tour guide links or affiliated with the university. SwisterTwister talk 06:18, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to San Francisco State University#Campus Buildings, where it is already mentioned. (It should be noted that the article used to contain a great deal more information, all self-referenced and mostly non-encyclopedic, with TMI detail about the building and its murals; nominator reduced it to a stub before nominating it for deletion.) --MelanieN (talk) 14:36, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. I merged the photo of the building to the SFSU article. --MelanieN (talk) 15:23, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to San Francisco State University#Campus Buildings. Although the subject of the article has been mentioned in several reliable sources, none of those sources speak about the subject as the primary subject of the article or give it significant coverage as required by WP:GNG. As part of a notable educational institution a redirect can be left in the articlespace to said institution.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 02:35, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:58, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

María Jesús Nieto[edit]

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Nothing I could find indicating this particular actress was notable; searches turn up a bunch of mirrors and nothing of any significance. Article was also deleted in es.wiki. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 22:17, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom, as failing WP:ACTOR. Bearian (talk) 21:14, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: I have searched in English and Spanish, no sources for notability, fails WP:ACTOR. Jezhotwells (talk) 14:23, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:57, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Georgia car insurance requirements[edit]

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The encyclopedia does not need an article about motorists' insurance requirements in every state and country of the world. This is not encyclopedic material. PROD was removed, without comment, by original editor. PamD 21:23, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per WP:NOTGUIDE - speedy delete if possible, utterly unencyclopedic. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:21, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, contravenes WP:NOTGUIDE, no evidence that this is encyclopedic material. --Kinu ^t/_c 01:24, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think the article is very relevant material. Throughout my 17 years of experience in the insurance industry, I have found that a lot of people have questions, and need more information on the auto insurance requirements in Georgia. The state of Georgia has a population of almost 10 million people. Each state has different liability limit requirements. Some states require Personal Injury Protection (Georgia does not), not all states have an insurance database,states have different fees and fines for not having insurance. Another unique aspect of auto insurance in Georgia is the Uninsured Motorist option (Added On vs. Reduced). There is also a wikipedia page on on the Georgia Electronic Insurance Compliance System and the Georgia General Assembly. I'm new to wikipedia, but I think that this topic will resonate with many people looking for information on auto insurance in Georgia. I definitely don't think the article should be deleted. It should be given time to be improved, because it provides useful information. There are also mulitple Georgia government websites, some I've reference in the article, that explains how auto insurance Georgia laws are different than other states. If all the rules and regulations were uniform from state to state, there would no need for state Insurance Commissioner offices in every state.--Laemiracles (talk) 19:30, 11 August 2012 (UTC) — Laemiracles (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
- WP:NOTGUIDE, WP:ITSUSEFUL. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:23, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Rename to Motor insurance requirements in Georgia (U.S. State). As this appears not to be a matter where the law is the same in all 50 states, and article is justified. However, I prefer "motor" to "car" to include other road vehicles. "Georgia" is ambiguous as it also refers to a nation in the Caucasus. No doubt other articles on the law of other states will follow. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:31, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Move/Merge to "Motor insurance requirements in the United States#Georgia". One article per nation is enough. It is at least IMO, and eliminates the "Georgia" ambiguity. - ¡Ouch! (^{hurt me} / _{more pain}) 12:14, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, don't merge anywhere. This is totally not encyclopedic material. If people want to know the insurance or other regulations for a given state, they should go to that state's website, not to an international encyclopedia. As far as I could tell, there are no comparable articles for any other state or country. --MelanieN (talk) 02:04, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete WP:NOTGUIDE. what next? Queensland car insurance requirements. LibStar (talk) 08:13, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:03, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

James E. Sabow[edit]

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I do not think there is enough evidence here to show notability. Not news any longer in the usual sense, exactly, but still old news of little significance. DGG ( talk ) 21:39, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete The lack of independent, verifiable secondary sources being the reason it doesn't pass WP:GNG. Not notable enough to clear the hurtle.Jimsteele9999 (talk) 01:46, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Buckshot06 (talk) 03:41, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep it What references do you need to verify you have Congressional Hearings and LA TIMES, and if you found that the article is not neutrally written then why not modify it INSTEAD OF DELETING IT this guy was a colonel and awaiting chief of staff and his wife and brother say he was murdered by the army and you still say this is irrelevant? Vjiced (talk) 11:34, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Colonels are not considered automatically notable. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:11, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Delete, although there was initial significant coverage of the death, enough to pass WP:GNG, because the subject was notable for one event WP:1E applies as does WP:EVENT. That being said, I don't believe that the subject passes WP:SOLDIER or the death of the subject passes WP:EFFECT. The death is a tragedy, however the subject and the event does not appear to pass notability to warrant inclusion in WikiPedia.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 00:23, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment we have some very notable allegations of illegal importing of drugs via El Toro etc, and misuse of military aircraft, mentioned in the references. The solution might be to create an article on Brigadier General Wayne T. Adams, who was fired for misuse of military aircraft for personal use, and add the material there. Vjiced, colonels are one rank lower than we automatically consider notable. Brig. Gen. Adams meets the rank cut-off, and was involved with the Sabow case. Buckshot06 (talk) 02:01, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The allegations are just that - allegations - and as such should not be included in Wikipedia. The only charge against Col. Sabow was using military aircraft for personal golfing trips. If someone wants to create an article about General Adams they certainly could, but it would have nothing to do with this discussion. A redirect would be inappropriate, because little or nothing about Col. Sabow would belong in that article. BTW I don't find anything saying that Gen. Adams was fired; he was reassigned. --MelanieN (talk) 17:04, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The officer was not notable before his unfortunate death, and has not become enduringly so as a result of his death. This article seems to exist only to promote the allegations of foul play by his family. The article has been deleted twice before[27] so perhaps it should be salted as well as deleted. --MelanieN (talk) 01:55, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - fails WP:1E. Anotherclown (talk) 06:23, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:56, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

2012 Indian Army Attack[edit]

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The article is not encyclopaedic. It has been classified as part of an entirely unconnected main article, the link of which leads to a blank page. The content seems to be made up of conspiracy theoriesSesamevoila (talk) 06:01, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Speedy~~ delete A1 - ~~the article is devoid of context to the point it's impossible to determine what, if anything, the article is even about. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 20:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC)~~ Article now has context but still needs to be covered in another article, not given one of its own - WP:NOTNEWSPAPER. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:55, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy delete A1 and G4 Agree Bushranger also note that this is the recreation of the deleted article 2012 Indian Army Fire Attack by the same author--DBigXray 05:55, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) TheSpecialUser ^TSU 00:28, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Maxence_Cyrin[edit]

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Articles for deletion/Maxence Cyrin

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After vast research, fails WP:GNG SarahStierch (talk) 05:39, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, seems to be visible in France. I added four French references, two for bio, and two for specific albums. Admittedly, La Liberation only mentions him, but the other three are pretty extensive.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:08, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Great work! My French is poor, so all that effort is deeply appreciated. SarahStierch (talk) 07:16, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Appears to pass WP:BASIC per: [28],[29], [30]. Northamerica1000^(talk) 13:03, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Nothing indicates that 'national chart' means solely a full aggregation of genre charts, therefore a national genre chart must be part of MUSICBIO, and the article establishes that she meets that criteria. Issues on censorship and oversight/rev del of edits can be addressed in other venues as necessary. Ged UK 13:42, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

K. Michelle[edit]

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Came up at ANI after legal threats and edit warring. Notability not established or at least doubtful. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 05:19, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Seems she's pretty notable now. Especially given the Chad Johnson domestic violence thing which apparently she made comments about. I don't think we should be deleting articles because her supposed agent made a threat against a user. I'd say WP:CENSOR. ViriiK (talk) 07:48, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete in its present state. Notability must be established in the article itself, not somewhere in the interwebs. Max Semenik (talk) 09:02, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Making comments about an event doesn't make one noteworthy I would say. I don't see what the artist meets WP:MUSIC. As for the censorship comments, even if there wasn't a legal threat, I'd still say delete because they just aren't up to the standards for inclusion on Wikipedia. Wildthing61476 (talk) 13:20, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete not worth it. Gigs (talk) 15:38, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - fails WP:BIO and associated guidelines. ukexpat (talk) 17:33, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Aren't charted singles an assertation of notability? There are also sources like this, this and more. She's on a major label and has charted singles. I'm failing to see the lack of notability here. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 20:28, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, only when they're on a national chart, not a genre chart which is where this person's releases have ended up. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 08:26, 18 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Says who? And what would make a genre chart non-national? Last I checked, all Billboard charts were tabulated from radio stations across the U.S. WP:BAND says absolutely nothing that precludes genre-specific charts. BLPs on country singers who only got to #59 once on Hot Country Songs have been kept for that reason. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 09:04, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Clearly meets the notability criteria for musicians, based on charted singles, adequately cited to reliable and independent sources. Note that the genre of the music does not correlate to notability in accordance with WP:MUSICBIO. The notability guideline #2 simply states that notability is met if the artist "has had a single or album on any country's national music chart". Five songs have charted on the US national R&B charts over a time period of three years. Best regards, Cindy(talk to me) 21:22, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep She seems pretty notable given she is a co-star on VH1's Atlanta Love and Hip Hop — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jupeterson (talk • contribs) 18:26, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - meets WP:MUSICBIO and per hammer. TheSpecialUser ^TSU 00:31, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:58, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Conservative liberalism[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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I am fixing this nomination on behalf of User:Darkstar1st, who provided the reason for deletion: "not in sources given". No opinion on my part yet. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:53, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Wikipedia is not a dictionary and while one may apply the adjecive "conservative" to anything, it does not make a discreet concept. TFD (talk) 05:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep conservative liberalism is a genuine ideological trend and tradition, separate from both classical liberalism and liberal conservatism, referenced in numerous legitimate academic sources about political science and political ideologies.--Autospark (talk) 12:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

it is not in the current english sources listed. Also, any article with the top three source cited 34 times, is flawed.

^ a b c Libéralisme conservateur - WikiPolitique

^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s Parties and Elections in Europe

^ a b c d e f g h i j k l M. Gallagher, M. Laver and P. Mair, Representative Government in Europe, p. 221. Darkstar1st (talk) 11:17, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Conservative liberalism is a well known and well sourced ideology. It is distinct from any other ideology and thus deserves an article in en.Wiki. Athough the article needs improvement, it is well sourced too and shouldn't be deleted as its subject is clearly encyclopedic. --Checco (talk) 04:58, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, it is a legit and notable topic and the sources seem sufficient to me. —Nightstallion 10:41, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

well sourced, sufficient? poppycock. The first source is in FRENCH, source 2 and 3 do not even mention the term, source 4 is a dead link. Specifically which source did you review, or did you? Darkstar1st (talk) 08:09, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The first source is in French... so what? The second and the third source DO mention "conservative liberalism" or "conservative liberals". There are plenty of other sources in the article, and many more can be added as we're talking about a well-known political ideology. --Checco (talk) 13:40, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

weak keep I`m skeptic about this article. I`m here because the article liberal conservatism is also nominated for deletion and I`ve written in defense of keeping it, but, I must say, conservative liberalism is something I`ve never heard before. Having read the article, I feel the inclusion of so many parties as following this ideology lacks reference, that the ideology is not sufficiently well defined and that while it may have some use in political discourse it is not so clear how widespread this is. This is particularly problematic as so many parties are identified as part of this group and I wonder how they define themselves and who came up with the idea that they fall under the rubric of conservative liberalism. It would be good if the article cited people, both politicians and political theorists, that are identified with such a position, either by themselves or by scholars. Still, I feel my skepticism is probably related to my ignorance on this particular terminology, that may be not widespread but still useful, and to the need of improvement from people who knows more about this. There are valid citations (in english too) and I see no reason for deletion at the moment. Anyway, I hope my comments may help and encourage those who are able to improve the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marco.natalino (talk • contribs) 00:21, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:04, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Birthdays of the Harry Potter series[edit]

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The article's author removed the proposed deletion tag moments after I added it. Although the article's subject may be interesting to some viewers, I can't see why there should be an article for this. Birthdays can be viewed at the individual articles and and character birthdays may be viewed as trivial. SwisterTwister talk 04:10, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per above. A search quickly shows that there's no in-depth coverage of the birthdays of the characters enough for there to really justify a list of this nature. This is essentially one of those things that would probably be great in a fan run wiki, but not really so much in Wikipedia. As far as the information goes, this is already accessible in the character pages and anyone intensely curious could look it up there. This isn't a "must have" list on par with a list of the characters for the series, for example.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 05:17, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Completely in-universe information that can't possibly be of any use outside the book series. JIP | Talk 05:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as indiscriminate trivia. This is of no significance within the works themselves and so is not important to understanding them; collecting it together doesn't accomplish anything either. postdlf (talk) 13:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Completely trivial and irrelevant even within the series, and it would be completely trivial and irrelevant if they were real people too! --Lquilter (talk) 15:56, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above. This is nothing but useless trivia that, as said by Lquilter, has no notability even within the books, let alone in the real world. Rorshacma (talk) 16:27, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The prophecy at the center of the book notes a boy born at the end of July. The fact that Neville's (which I have just corrected in the article) and Harry's birthdays are both at that time is significant within the book. This may not be enough to justify keeping the article, but it is worth considering. Ma^t_chups 02:52, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the "indiscriminate trivia" comments above are wrong on two levels: 1) it's very discriminate, and 2) IINFO doesn't list fictional elements as within its scope. Despite the deficiency in the above arguments, it is based on a single, non-reliable source. No objections to transwikiing it somewhere relevant if desired. Jclemens (talk) 20:44, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The items included within the list are not indiscriminate in that it's quite clear what belongs in this list and what doesn't. The choice of the list's very subject is indiscriminate, however, because it represents a failure to properly discriminate between what is important or relevant and what is not. postdlf (talk) 22:14, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:05, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Chase Daniels[edit]

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Not a particularly notable radio personality; searches didn't turn up anything particularly useful, and the claims of notability here are remarkably vague. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 22:08, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails notability.--BMWcomputer (talk) 18:14, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. The subject of this AfD is Chase Daniels, an Atlanta radio personality. However, Chase Daniel was a very prominent college quarterback at Missouri, is now the backup quarterback for the New Orleans Saints, and is often, mistakenly, called "Daniels" in news stories and elsewhere. This error happens often enough that it's become a running joke among Saints fans. So Google searches turn up a number of hits (for example, GNews has more than 200 hits for <"Chase Daniels" Atlanta>), but they are mostly typos relating to the QB; I couldn't find anything significant about the Atlanta radio personality. Alternatively could consider redirecting to WSTR (FM).--Arxiloxos (talk) 15:33, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. WP:SOFTDELETE, will restore as though it were an expired PROD. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:07, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel Katsük[edit]

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I'm really not seeing the notability here. He had a couple roles, but I'm not seeing enough sources to really met WP:ACTOR. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 22:06, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: It appears we have two Daniel Katsuks. One is Daniel Katsük (voice artist), the topic of this deletion, an anime voice artist with a healthy body of work but few decent sources.[31] The other is Daniel Katsuk (musican), NOT the subject of this AFD but sourcable as a Fort Worth musician.[32] Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 07:18, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. WP:SOFTDELETE Mark Arsten (talk) 02:53, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hecha Pa'lla (Manos Pa'rriba)[edit]

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Non-notable song. Only reference is to a database entry with no real coverage. The song does not appear to have charted. Given the name there may be foreign-language coverage, there's no inter-wiki link. Nothing obvious in google. Stuartyeates (talk) 20:15, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: Article has been moved to Echa Pa'lla (Manos Pa'rriba). - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:20, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:07, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oakville Chamber Orchestra[edit]

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Borderline notability case here; bringing to AfD for further community review. No strong opinion with a slight leaning toward delete on my end. Blurpeace 13:56, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - There is no signicant coverage about this group. Most of the search results for news come from InsideHalton, the website for a local community newspaper. Other results are concert listings. -- Whpq (talk) 13:35, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment - the relist I made was a third one and generally not more then two relists are made. The reason for going for a third one was, this AFD lacked participation and maybe a third one would work. Otherwise this is to be deleted and very less likely to be closed as "no consensus". TheSpecialUser ^TSU 03:54, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Of the three sources provided, the only one that actually links to anything (as far as I could find) was the orchestra's own official site. If independent reliable sources can be found, the article can be re-created later. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:38, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no significant coverage. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:42, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:53, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gerry Cosgrove[edit]

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Unable to find reliable, secondary sources to evidence the notability of this video game voice actor. j⚛e decker ^talk 14:37, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - I hate to be the first person leaving a comment on an article that was relisted twice, but I guess someone has to do it. While I would love to see him have his own Wikipedia page, there is just not enough independent and reliable coverage of him. The IMDb reference is about the only thing out there other than a few slight passing mentions. --MalcomMarcomb11376 (talk) 17:09, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:53, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Roland Parliament[edit]

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Unable to find reliable, secondary sources which evidence the notability of this voice actor to demonstrate notability via WP:GNG. Additional sources welcomed. j⚛e decker ^talk 14:12, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I'm inclined to agree, that unless additional material and sources are added, the article fails the notability requirements. —C.Fred (talk) 14:28, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. WP:SOFTDELETE Mark Arsten (talk) 02:53, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Adam Howden[edit]

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Unable to find reliable, secondary sources which evidence the notability of this video game voice actor under WP:GNG. this is marked as a press release, and wouldn't qualify as an appropriate source. The one source listed in the article is a primary source (according to the footnote at the bottom of its page.) Additional sources welcomed, as always. j⚛e decker ^talk 14:31, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Adaptive behavior. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:57, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Adaptive functioning[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Recreated after a speedy deletion for copyright infringement. Now it's not infringing, but it doesn't contain anything that isn't also found in Adaptive behavior. There's nothing here to merge, and the point seems to be to promote the blog that it was formerly a copyright violation of. — alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 17:34, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or Merge into it's own small section in Adaptive behavior. Those who want to know what adaptive functioning, yet don't clearly know what what adaptive functioning is compared to what adaptive behavior is, may appreciate "...a term that refers to the skillset necessary for humans to effectively manage needs by ones environment.", that is not currently? in either article. Creator of article, Mysterytrey 00:49, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note Skillset goes to Creative Skillset - "Sector Skills Councils (SSCs) are state-sponsored, employer-led organisations that cover specific economic sectors in the United Kingdom." So this article explains nothing regarding adaptive behavior and isn't relevant to it. MathewTownsend (talk) 18:38, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - doesn't make sense grammatically (despite the source - lacking author (site disclaimer so not reliable source) - using the term). "Functioning" is not a "skillset". "Behavior" can include skill sets. "Functioning" is a more global term, "a general concept of coping" and "coping strategies". e.g. [33] (Click on Google scholar above under "Find sources") MathewTownsend (talk) 12:02, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

p.s. The one source in the article Adaptive functioning is a site soliciting business for "Shahal Rozenblatt, Ph.D. • Clinical Neuropsychologist

Advanced Psychological Assessment, P.C. • 50 Karl Avenue, Suite 104

Smithtown, NY 11787 • 137 East 36 Street, Suite 4, New York, NY 10016 • Tel: 866-840-9790"

See: what you'll get for your evaluation and how to arrange payment from the source site, for example.

Also, please note that skillset redirects to: "Creative Skillset is the Sector Skills Council which supports skills and training for people and businesses to ensure the UK creative industries stay competitive and productive." - so how is this link relevant to the Adaptive behavior article? So this article, Adaptive functioning explains nothing and there is nothing to merge - unless you want to introduce Creative Skillset, the UK Sector Skills Council into the Adaptive behavior article. That article is already such a mess that it doesn't need this kind of unreliably sourced confusion added to it. MathewTownsend (talk) 18:38, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You've given a lot of thought to the mislink. So much more than actually fixing the link. Mysterytrey 16:47, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or Merge. This barely-readable stub has no useful information. If anything is worth salvaging, merge it with Adaptive behavior. Kaldari (talk) 21:37, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Zend Framework. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:55, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Xyster Framework[edit]

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I don't think this PHP framework is notable. –ebraminio^talk 08:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: fails WP:GNG. In fact it is the first article that gave me nothing but project's home page on Google News. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 18:59, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge or Redirect: to Zend Framework. It is an extension of that framework and seemingly not notable on its own. -- BenTels (talk) 00:48, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Amsterdamsche roeibond[edit]

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Amsterdamsche roeibond, as a topic, has not received enough coverage in reliable sources for a stand alone article per WP:GNG. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 11:28, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. The Dutch Wikipedia doesn't even have an article on this rowing club, though it is mentioned in other articles. http://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=Amsterdamsche+roeibond&title=Speciaal%3AZoeken --VikÞor | Talk 02:52, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:08, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hotel Bristol[edit]

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These hotels have nothing in common with each other except for their name. There appears to be a single reliable source discussing it (the Earl's biography) and that, in my opinion, does not confer notability on its own. TallNapoleon (talk) 18:59, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, it's interesting and noteworthy. Gryffindor (talk) 21:42, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ Keep - the article seems to be based on the contents of the book called The Hotel Bristol Project (citation 1 in the article) which seems to be wholly unnotable. I'm surprised this article has gone unnoticed for so long! Sionk (talk) 21:44, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

'Vote' changed. The general news sources about Hervey, pointed out by Arxiloxos and Ghmyrtle below, convince me I was wrong. Sionk (talk) 09:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. The Wall Street Journal article[34], currently listed under external links, demonstrates and describes the notability of the topic.--Arxiloxos (talk) 06:02, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The tale of Frederick Hervey's travels giving rise to so many hotels of this name appears in numerous books. Warden (talk) 22:20, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wouldn't that best go on a page about Harvey? TallNapoleon (talk) 16:07, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

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Keep and improve per Arxiloxos' suggestion and other sources such as [35] and [36], which provide the basis for an interesting and informative article. The article on Frederick Hervey, 4th Earl of Bristol also needs improvement. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:33, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:51, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Complete TurtleTrader: How 23 Novice Investors Became Overnight Millionaires[edit]

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No actual evidence of notability for the book, which worldcat reports to be found in only 230 libraries. The Bloomberg article is about the person and the trading method, not the book specifically. The book is covered in the article on Covel, which is sufficient. I'm bringing this here instead of just redirecting, so that the decision will stick (and the promotional article history get deleted). I deplore the practice of trying to get multiple promotional articles. It's much safer to stick to one modest article. DGG ( talk ) 19:55, 10 August 2012 (UTC) DGG ( talk ) 19:55, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This is untrue. The Bloomberg article has a 500 word profile of the book. The book also has mentions in Daily Finance and Futures Magazine The Hindu, all of which are notable publications. I'm not sure why worldcat is being mentioned here - that's almost definitely WP:OR. It's common practice to have pages both for authors and for the books they've written, especially if that book is notable (and this one is). MountainMan11 (talk) 20:03, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Counting the number of holding libraries in WorldCat is not OR. Furthermore, OR applies only to article content, our discussions of whether or not to delete something are generally based on our own investigations into sources. DGG ( talk ) 16:50, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep DGG is right about WP:OR, but (despite generally being a Deletionist) I think this book passes the notability criteria for books. These third-party mentions seem significant, and it passes basic threshold standards ("Books should have at a minimum an ISBN (for books published after 1975), be available at a dozen or more libraries and be catalogued by its country of origin's official or de facto national library.") Dave.Dunford (talk) 07:48, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:50, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Heel That Pain[edit]

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Article is an advertisement promoting a company and its products. It does not meet notability standards. Only reliable source is about investment advise comparing niche services like Heel-That-Pain.com to larger companies. Other sources are about heel inserts in general and do not mention the company being promoted in this article or the company's products. DocTree (talk) 03:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Advertising issues, notability issues, no reliable sources. Ubelowme _U ^Me 03:40, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Wikipedia is not a soapbox or free advertising space. jfd34 (talk) 14:56, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:50, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Liberal conservatism[edit]

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not in sources given Darkstar1st (talk) 02:54, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

None of the top three sources mention the term in english, or were translated into such by a RS. a total of 34 citations for the top 3 sources, clearly the term does not exist elsewhere as was determined in the 1st afd and delete or redirect was the recommendation of many then. The article has been tagged for 1 year to improve sources with no success. Darkstar1st (talk) 02:40, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Articles should be about topics. Although it is possible to apply the adjective liberal to the noun conservative, as various writers have, it does not create a separate topic. TFD (talk) 03:30, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Not an encyclopedic topic. A neologism or some such, used little and even less useful. Carrite (talk) 04:00, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – This is a definite political phenomenon: you can't explain the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada or David Cameron without distinguishing liberal conservatism from other conservative strains. There's only so much you can describe in a single article on Conservatism without sapping its coherence and overloading it beyond most readers' willingness to read. —— Shakescene (talk) 07:53, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

have any sources used the term describing that party? if not, wp:OR Darkstar1st (talk) 08:10, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep A term used and very readily understood in the the context of contemporary UK politics. The evidence is the way in which it is used in the titles of books and articles in the UK as a glance at Google will demonstrate. It works as a term not just because the UK Conservative Party is in coalition with the Liberal Democrats; it explains why and how David Cameron can argue that he is being philosophically coherent in on the one hand supporting the preservation of the best of inherited values and institutions and at the same time supporting eg gay marriage as an individual freedom. --AJHingston (talk) 09:40, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

please glance thru google and paste a few of those sources here, or, in the article as requested for over a year now. Darkstar1st (talk) 11:11, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, appears to have sufficient coverage to warrant notability. Then again there is this other form of the usage of the work dating back to at least 1937, and this. Subject is notable per multiple academic sources (such as 1 and 2).--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 09:44, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

the sources you listed make the case for this being merged into classical liberalism, page 106 box 5.1 liberal conservatism is classical liberalism, small government and thriving capitalism page 105, 106 box 5.1, Analyzing Politics: An Introduction to Political ScienceDarkstar1st (talk) 11:09, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The very fact that we have in this one debate arguments in favour of a merger with articles on conservatism and on liberalism says a lot. And no, the policies espoused by Mr Cameron (to take a contemporary example) are not simply those of classical liberalism, though of course there are ideas consistent with that. The philosophy does, for example, accept that the state can have a positive impact on social wellbeing, and that the case for state intervention and participation in any instance is essentially pragmatic. In particular, it can conserve beneficial aspects of civil society that untrammelled freedom may tend to destroy. --AJHingston (talk) 12:29, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

do you have any sources that mention the term? It doesnt really matter what you, we, or David thinks, until some eggheads writes about it, no such term exist. Darkstar1st (talk) 14:01, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If a Head of Government describes his political philosophy in a particular way, then his use of the term becomes notable in WP terms and it get written about in that way then, now and subsequently. That includes disagreeing with his use of the term to describe his views, but that is just POV. I have avoided listing examples because they are so numerous and others will make a much better job of picking out the most useful, but one is here. --AJHingston (talk) 14:46, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

could you tell us what page, or even add the source to the article? Darkstar1st (talk) 15:23, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The 1937 source uses the term "Liberal-Conservatism" (in capitals) as a reference to the Canadian "Liberal-Conservative Party" (which was a coalition of conservatives and some liberals). E.A. Houseman's article, which is also about Canada, says, "By liberal conservatism I refer to a discourse of liberalism...that consciously styled itself in opposition to the more radical forms of liberalism...." Your next source uses the term to distinguish the free market liberalism of Margaret Thatcher from the Tory paternalism of Ian Gilmour. Your next source, which is an introductory US textbook, uses the term "classical liberal conservatism" to refer to free market liberalism. So apparently these sources are mostly using the term to refer to neoclassical liberalism, which is what the article should be called. TFD (talk) 13:45, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps then the due to the multitude of different meanings of the word/subject perhaps this article should be recreated as a disambiguate article, with different articles (with slightly different names) speaking about those different usages of the work.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 06:17, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

that would still leave us with the problem of no sources in english, or translated, using such a term. Were you able to find the term in print? if so, please share and/or add to the article. Darkstar1st (talk) 10:03, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

failed verification in the 1st source, Liberal conservatism is neither on page 2 as cited, nor anywhere else in the book. the other sources include a video of a david cameron making a speech, www.parties-and-elections.de(dead link), and source 2-5, which comprise the majority of text explaining the term, is from 2 pages of an obscure text. Darkstar1st (talk) 11:36, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Being the one that put in the second and third source, maybe I should have a say on that. I am a political sociologist and have known the term "liberal conservative"for quite a long time. There`s nothing particularly controversial about its use. When I looked it up on wikipedia I found the article wasn`t particularly good, so what I did was to look for an online politics handbook, as those are better at putting long academic discussions into a compact form and that is a good way to go if you want to improve the intro of an article on a political ideology. There`s nothing obscure about a mainstream politcs handbook. From my experience I found it to be in agreement with academic literature and well phrased, so I used it. Trying to check it now on google, I found out they have taken the 2007 edition out and you can only access the 2008 edition (nothing obscure about yearly editions, right?), where this discussion goes on item 4.5 Liberal or Market Conservatism (p.117-120).

Now, I understand other users have found the term "clearly not to exist elsewhere" and "no improvement with sources have been made", but since my contributions are not that old and any person with knowledge on the field could attest that this is common political parlance, I must say, respectfully, they have no idea what they are talking about. Of course it would be nice to discuss in more detail how Burke, Tocqueville, Aron, Oakeshott and others relate to this ideology, and we could do a much better job about how political parties relate to it. That is no reason to delete the article, it is a reason to improve it!

On the matter of "neologism": a simple google academic search shows a lot of references to it, including a citation to this:

A View of Reform: By a Liberal Conservative. With Some Suggestions for a Reform Bill - 1866 - Dorrell

On the matter of David Cameron: yes, it is highly relevant that he identifies himself as such, and no, the fact that he does is not in any case necessary for this article to be considered important.

On the matter of "this is classical liberalism": no, what confuses people is that the "liberal" part in liberal conservatism is not what many (mostly americans) consider to be liberalism: it is the defense of capitalist property rights, free markets, guarantee of contracts, praise of meritocracy, and yes, small government. That is called classic liberalism in the united states and I`ve got no problem with that as long as it doesn`t cloud our vision from the fact that in political science and philosophy the definitions are different from those you see on your favorite news channel or paper. The conservatism comes from the defense of tradition and natural inequalities as inherent to human nature.

On how come people think this should be deleted: this is just a guess, but I think some people are confused to learn that much of what is called "true conservatism" in american everyday parlance is completely embedded in a liberal (classical liberal, if you wish) ideology that perpasses the whole of american mainstream political organizations. Some of those confused get angry with the idea that somehow what they consider conservatism is widely understood by academics to be closely related to liberalism, as they confuse liberalism with what they hear is liberalism on the news. Again, that is fine and understandable and nobody owns words. But come on, this is an encyclopedia people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marco.natalino (talk • contribs) 22:43, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Closed due to duplicate AfD. Another AfD for this same article is going on above at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Liberal conservatism (2nd nomination) and has received more participation. Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:47, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Liberal conservatism[edit]

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term not in sources given Darkstar1st (talk) 02:50, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:02, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

California Takshila University[edit]

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Not notable, and may not even exist. I have been unable to find any third-party reliable sourcing substantiating the existence of this institution. It's not included on the long California BPPE list of approved institutions at http://www.bppe.ca.gov/schools/approved_schools.shtml and it is has not submitted an annual report to BPPE: https://www.dca.ca.gov/webapps/bppe/annual_report.php . I've received email suggesting that I contact Jennifer Juarez at BPPE to verify the school's registration with BPPE. (But note that an email from BPPE would not create notability.) Orlady (talk) 02:35, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete pending evidence that the school is actually accredited to issue degrees. That evidence is currently lacking. The school's website [37], while it claims to issue a "master degree," is rather vague about it, and their physical therapy program is forthright in stating that it gives only a two-year associate's degree, after which students will have to go elsewhere to complete their bachelor's. It's possible this "university" exists mainly as a gleam in someone's eye. They don't have an application form[38] or even a physical address that I could find. I found absolutely no coverage at Google News Archive. --MelanieN (talk) 03:19, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Accreditation is not necessary for an academic institution to be notable. Unaccredited schools can be notable, based on third-party published documentation. Further, note that the California BPPE officially "approves" many unaccredited schools, so the absence of Takshili from the BPPE lists can be considered unusual. --Orlady (talk) 04:15, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

True, unaccredited schools can be notable based on WP:GNG; this school fails the GNG standard because it lacks coverage at Google News Archive, as I noted. My mention of accreditation was to see if it might qualify via the "automatic notability" standard for accredited degree-granting institutions; without evidence of accreditation it does not. --MelanieN (talk) 14:15, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as not notable although it may become notorious; mentioned in blogs as a school to not attend because it lacks accreditation.[39] Unable to find mention of this school in a reliable source. DocTree (talk) 04:03, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, appears to fail WP:GNG.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 09:23, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Snow Keep. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:54, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

James Eagan Holmes[edit]

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Holmes has no notability outside the shooting, the article on him needs to be deleted! The article is in Violation of WP:BLP1E the fact that he is the Sole Suspect of the Aurora 2012 Shooting makes him not eligible for a stand-alone article WP:BLP1E is equal to anybody alife or death! To my understanding and logic if a victim is not eligible for an article then the suspect is neither! Fox2k11 (talk) 02:27, 17 August 2012 (UTC) -- As Submitter of this AFD I don't know if possible but I like to declare that i Revoke the Submitting of this AFD and the article should stay! --Fox2k11 (talk) 23:21, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

— Fox2k11 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. WWGB (talk) 03:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Obvious keep - BLP1E has to be the most misunderstood policy on Wikipedia. Suffice to say, this article does not violate that policy, and this nomination has zero chance of being successful. --Bongwarrior (talk) 02:41, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment - This person is only known for the shooting in aurora nothing more nothing less a clear Violation of WP:BLP1E also Wikipedia:NOT#NEWS and Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#People_notable_for_only_one_event Fox2k11 (talk) 02:54, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This has been discussed, and you (Fox2k11) have failed to read the discussions. Mark David Chapman has an article, and he is only known for killing John Lennon and reading the Catcher in the Rye. Why haven't you, Fox2k11, marked that for deletion, too? Thelema418 (talk) 05:37, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Let's avoid the other stuff exists arguments, they weaken your keep argument rather than support it. Ryan Vesey 05:41, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am asking anyone who wishes to mark this for deletion to be thorough in the exercise of what they are doing. Thelema418 (talk) 05:47, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:BLP1E and WP:NOTNEWSPAPER. This person is only known for their alleged crimes, nothing else. Northamerica1000^(talk) 02:45, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The subject satisfies the criteria at WP:PERPETRATOR in that "the execution of the crime is unusual—or has otherwise been considered noteworthy". He is allegedly responsible for one of the "worst shootings in U.S. history" [40]. The arguments presented at Talk:James Eagan Holmes/Archive 1#Merge are also relevant here. WWGB (talk) 03:21, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. For all the aforementioned reasons. This was already discussed on talk pages for the article, and I think Fox2k11 has overstepped all reason in nominating this article for deletion. Thelema418 (talk) 05:29, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Can we get the template put up that says this is not a flat vote? I'm sure there'll be plenty of new contributors here. Can we try to be active in inviting them to continue editing as well? FWIW I'll be !voting Keep sooner or later if this isn't snowed, it'll just take some time to write up a rationale so I'll take a day or two. Ryan Vesey 05:33, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, this particular issue is presented that way. Obviously, people are working on this article. Rather than posting commentary in the TALK section, this individual marked the article for deletion. It's RUDE, but I'll just vote to KEEP the article. Thelema418 (talk) 05:43, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If I start seeing people just throwing out Delete and Keep votes with "per the others" or are just simple Vote type comments I will place the template up top. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:15, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I already posted in the talk section of the shooting page and I also posted in the talk page of this article and asked why he has his page but it's not allowed for any victim to have a sole page for them so why he? oh yes right he is the Alleged "perpetrator" so let's get him a Wikipedia article with flying colors and get the others an ass kick I.m.h.o no criminal should get a wikipedia page no matter if he killed 12 unknown people or just shoot John Lennon like mentioned above it doesn't matter and i don't care if this deletion request Fails or not at least i can say "I tried it" WP:BLP1E says nope no article for non-notable persons but then there is WP:PERPETRATOR to Annul this Great...just great... *sigh* Fox2k11 (talk) 11:04, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You could as well ask why is there an article about Hitler, but not about the millions of people that died in the concentration camps. It's an emotional question that has no place when assessing the notability of something. After all, dying itself is not a notable act, since we all do it sooner or later, and getting killed by someone isn't either (at least most of the time). On the other hand, if you do something just horrible enough you will gain enough notoriety and notability to be the subject of books, movies, documentaries and, yes, Wikipedia articles. That's the way it is, and has been for thousands of years. You better deal with it, because neither you, nor anyone else on this planet can change it. (Lord Gøn (talk) 14:19, 17 August 2012 (UTC))[reply]

Comparing Holmes with Hitler is just stupid Hitler is indeed Notably but Holmes is not! Fox2k11 (talk) 14:40, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I did not compare Holmes with Hitler. I know very well that Hitler's pesence permeates history quite a bit stronger than Holmes', but that's totally besides the point I was trying to make. What I wanted to say was that argumenting from an emotional point of view like you did is totally useless when trying to evaluate the notability of anything, so you could as well have asked why is there an article about Hitler (certainly notable), but not the (mostly not notable) victims of his folly. It is a totally meaningless question in this regard. But ok, you say that Holmes is not notable, nor is any other criminal, but that is your point of view and in the big picture it does not matter, because notability is not a dependent of a single person, but those of many, though not necessarily of the majority.

Anyway, don't you think that saying no criminal should get an article on Wikipedia, even if he was or is the subject of continuous media coverage like Mark Chapman, is a little bit absolutist? I mean, certainly you would agree that a criminal who killed a million people by, say, detonationg a nuclear bomb in a major city should be the subject of his own article, even if he was notable for nothing else. And if you agree to that, you may excuse if I ask the question how many people has somebody to kill in your eyes to warrant his own article? If a million is enough, is 100,000 also? What about 1000, 100, or 10? Though, in the end the number doesn't really matter, as even a single murder can make you notable – certainly this is the case with Gavrilo Princip (ok, double murder), or Lee Harvey Oswald. (Lord Gøn (talk) 15:37, 17 August 2012 (UTC))[reply]

No, my point is that it doesn't matter how many you killed if there is an article about the crime one has Commited it's fine when the perpetrator is mentioned there but why has there a full article of the perpetrator including what he did before and what his background are? is that Really Necessary? Fox2k11 (talk) 18:44, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just to make sure I understand you correctly, you think the social background of somebody who killed a million people would be irrelevant and not of interest and shouldn't be covered in detail? Then how do you think should we understand the motivation of anybody, if we disregard his life previous to his crime? Isn't it the purpose of a biography to get a fuller understanding of a person, to maybe find a hint somewhere in his personal history that might explain why he acted how he acted, did what he did? (Lord Gøn (talk) 22:53, 17 August 2012 (UTC))[reply]

sorry for my late reply was kinda busy.. I agree with what you said above but currently there is nothing about Holmes that would meet that criteria you stated above since not much is known about him what i wanted to say was is it really necessary to know what his childhood was or what he did years before the shooting? Fox2k11 (talk) 03:00, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I can only speak on behalf of myself, of course, but yes, I would say that it is necessary to show what he did prior to the shooting, especially the most basic information, like where he went to school etc., should be present even in a remotely complete biography. And a lot of psychologists would be wasting their time trying to uncover the childhood of serial and mass murderers, if it weren't important in the context of their crimes. Knowning what a person went through in his life may help to understand why things went the way they did.(Lord Gøn (talk) 12:28, 21 August 2012 (UTC))[reply]

Point Taken =) Fox2k11 (talk) 16:12, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. For no other reason then there was already a merge discussion and the merge proposal failed. Why discuss it again. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 05:34, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. For aforementioned reasons. The subject's accused crime is a "well-documented historic event" and will likely become even more of one. Jenrzzz (talk) 11:46, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

delete for now currently this article is needless trivia about Holme's past (heres what his high-school summer internship mentor thought of him!), and a content fork of the main shooting article. Certainly over time sufficient true encyclopedic matierial may be available to deserve a full article, but that time is not now. Gaijin42 (talk) 14:00, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. As it says, WP:BLP1E should be applied only to low-profile individuals, and after about a month of continuous worldwide news coverage about his person, I'd say it would be quite a stretch of the term to call Holmes still low-profile. Furthermore, you don't need a crystal ball to know with quite a bit of certainty that intermittent reporting about him will continue at least as long as his trial is ongoing, which will in all probability be for another year or two, as similar cases have shown repeatedly. And you may call WP:OSE all you want, but there are articles about Jared Loughner, Nidal Hasan, Robert Bales and numerous other mass shooters, and as the aforementioned guideline states:

When used correctly though, these comparisons are important as the encyclopedia should be consistent in the content that it provides or excludes.

So, may I ask, why should we treat Holmes any different than all those other mass murderers and mass murder suspects? (Lord Gøn (talk) 14:19, 17 August 2012 (UTC))[reply]

Keep: This should be a "no brainer" and I cannot understand for a moment why anyone on policy grounds would suggest this article be deleted. Improve it by all means but there is no valid reason to delete it. Afterwriting (talk) 14:59, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just because one has a different view and opinion on an Article doesn't make one a "no brainer" any user on wikipedia has the right nominate an article for something (f.e. Deletion) this is why we have this discussion here! Fox2k11 (talk) 18:54, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe so, but in this case it should be an obvious "no brainer". The arguments for deletion are clearly erroneous. Afterwriting (talk) 19:01, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, "any user on wikipedia has the right [to] nominate an article", even when they only have a two-week editing history and only edit articles related to the 2012 Aurora shooting. We are sooo democratic ... WWGB (talk) 05:58, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And you started your Account with an fully Bloomed editing History? Yes My editing history is only about related articles

and just like any user who created an account in good faith started with something I will commit myself to an project once i find one I am interested to create or edit! if you have an issue with me you know where my talk page is ok? thanks!Fox2k11 (talk) 13:06, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep *Sigh* I just knew that an AfD would pop up sooner or later for this article, my opinion is though that this article is not likely going to be deleted at the very least a redirect would be in place as the suspect goes without dispute with the 2012 Aurora shooting event per the sources. After redirect comes the option of a merge which was discussed here: Talk:James Eagan Holmes/Archive 1#Merge. The merge result ended in no consensus but as an editor pointed out showed the arguements for each issue brought forward. So that leaves Keep which in my opinion is the right thing to do here, Holmes is a high profile person with enough coverage to warrent a seperate article, See also: Wikipedia:Who is a low profile individual. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 21:57, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - article subject part of a significant event. And are as a person still notable himself individually. end of story.--BabbaQ (talk) 22:26, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This article about Holmes obviously qualifies under the guidelines of WP:Notability.--Franz Brod (talk) 04:13, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Both the person and the event are world infamous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thetalkingheads (talk • contribs) 23:21, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - BLP1E lists three conditions for *not* having an article, and says that all three should be met in order for it to apply and the article to thus be improper. Holmes easily does not meet the second and the third criteria. Thus BLP1E does not apply, and this should be kept. - TexasAndroid (talk) 03:39, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Per WP:PERP, The crime and suspect are unusual and subject to continuing coverage. DocTree (ʞlɐʇ) (cont) Join WER 16:39, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep - While he is known for only one event, it is not simply a "news event", but rather a historically significant event due to the severity of his actions. Debating the existence of this article feels more like debating the nuances of Wikipedia's rules - incorrectly, at that, since this article only meets one of three criteria for deletion via the BLP1E reference listed by the original challenger - when this article is clearly of great significance to the many individuals who are visiting this page every day, checking for updates to it. I would say that even if Wikipedia's rules, for whatever reason, did permit the deletion of this article, that the bold and proper thing to do would be to change the rules, not delete this page. All of that aside, this article does not meet the criteria of deletion via BLP1E. Keep. Pritchard 00:07, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
Delete not notable outside of 2012 Aurora shooting and apart from the initial news item is zero notability outside of the USA. MilborneOne (talk) 17:38, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

We don't require international notability, Sjoerd Winkens is obviously notable, but probably has zero notability outside of the Netherlands. Ryan Vesey 18:20, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete It gives the impression that he is guilty, and he hasn't been convicted. Maybe if there was more information explaining why he is a suspect, it would be a more appropriate article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.229.18.139 (talk) 23:41, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

— 71.229.18.139 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. WWGB (talk) 01:09, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This sounds more like a reason to modify the article rather than delete it.Pritchard 00:07, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Comment I just noticed that the original challenger of this article's existence also stated that if a victim can't have a Wikipedia article, neither should the suspect. Victims of crimes do have their own articles. Unfortunately, victims are often tossed to the wayside by media and other news sources. Unless a particular victim stands apart from the crowd, it is unlikely that they will receive special attention. However, if there is sufficient information available to create a quality article, go forth and create one. Pritchard 00:13, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes thats right I started a Stub on "Jessica Ghawi" (see the talk page) and Raised Vailid points (sources) that she is like you say "stands apart from the crowd" but the stub has been reverted due to WP:BLP1E so i came to the conclusion that an article about the suspect falls into to the same "BLP1E" Rule but it Seems i either understand WP:BLP1E wrong or my sources are not enough (not valid) to notably lift her up from the crowd! Fox2k11 (talk) 02:49, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This article clearly does not meet criteria for deletion. Even though Holmes is just a suspect, the shooting is a noteworthy incident that made national, if not international headlines. There are plenty of other persons who had articles on them while suspects in high-profile criminal cases as well as somewhat less noteworthy cases than this. I recommend this article be kept. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Austin023 (talk • contribs) 04:22, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for reasons already stated by others. Wikfr (talk) 20:11, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - per WP:PERP, the crime/motive could be considered unusual, and according to WP:BLP1E, it must be all three criteria, though only one could be met, and that is the first one. The second one doesn't work because he's still awaiting trial; the third one doesn't apply because the event itself is significant. Zappa O Mati 21:47, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Meets notability requirements no matter how you cut it. Should be a speedy keep, but may as well let process run its course. --CrunchySkies (talk) 10:08, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. There doesn't seem to be interest in deletion here, so no consensus between Keep and Merge. I suggest a merge discussion be opened. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:01, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Treacher[edit]

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Non-notable blogger; fails WP:BIO. I can't really find anything in the way of significant coverage in independent reliable sources. The article itself admits that he's 'best known for starting the "Obama Eats Dogs" meme'; what little coverage there is only mentions him in that context, so this is a WP:BLP1E at best. But Obama Eats Dogs was deleted as non-notable, and the guy who created it is even less so. Robofish (talk) 01:29, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: I guess my !vote isn't a strong one, but he's been around awhile and I added a few cites to the article awhile back when the "Obama Eats Dogs" AfD was going on, out of interest of what Treacher/Medlock's real story was. He's certainly less notable as a right-wing political commentator than folks like Erick Erickson or Joel Pollak, but at least as notable as folks like Allahpundit.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 03:09, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge & Redirect to The Daily Caller. Per nom., subject falls short of meeting WP:BIO standards, so a standalone article is not warranted. He is, however, a significant figure at the Daily Caller and worthy of a mention in that article. Edit history should be kept for ease of recreation in the event his RS coverage reaches the point of passing WP:GNG.--JayJasper (talk) 04:21, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, notable, though the article certainly needs some expansion. From what I recall, the article long predates the creation/deletion of Obama Eats Dogs. Kelly ^hi! 09:20, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with The Daily Caller, which is where Treacher get's his notability. Belchfire-TALK 02:07, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Mark Arsten (talk) 04:53, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Anthony Verga[edit]

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Notability: has one sentence and link, and an infobox. Grammarxxx (talk) 01:08, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Former member of a state legislature. Meets WP:POLITICIAN. --Hirolovesswords (talk) 02:14, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Strong Keep: Even before Hiro's improvements, this is a prima facie pass under WP:POLITICIAN. It looks like a very sloppy nomination, without any attempt by the nom to verify notability as per WP:BEFORE, and there is nothing about a sentence/link/infobox which violates any notability guidelines. I recommend that the (relatively inexperienced) nom gain a better understanding of WP:Deletion policy and the pertinent notability guidelines before taking more articles to AfD. Ravenswing 03:47, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Keep - Passes WP:BASIC. Invalid nom per WP:DEL-REASON. Topic notability is about sources, not the state that articles are in. Northamerica1000^(talk) 10:56, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Agree with others supporting keeping article. Donner60 (talk) 08:09, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:POLITICIAN #1: member of Massachusetts House of Representatives. Location (talk) 03:45, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. The arguments in support of keeping the article were fairly weak, but there was little appetite for deletion, so this close carries the same weight as a "No consensus" close would have. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:09, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Amsterdam Magazine[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. Cliff Smith 17:00, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Previous AfD closed as "no consensus". Previous AfD nomination still is valid: "Article describes a short-lived magazine and its even shorter-lived offshoot. During their brief existence, the only attention received from independent sources (of doubtful reliability - some read like press releases) consists of brief mentions in a marketing magazine and on two local radio/TV stations. Does not meet WP:NMEDIA or WP:GNG". In addition, it would seem that the sole raison d'être for this article is to get even with its publisher, given the persistency with which some SPA editors repeatedly include specifically that the bankruptcy entailed the non-payment of outstanding wages (nothing exceptional in case of a bankruptcy), sometimes by including unsubstantiated (unverified OR and SYNTH) information on a to-be-published novel (itself also non-notable) that purportedly is about the events around this magazine. No substantial sources have been added in the 4 months since the last AfD and the existing sources are to press releases, the magazines' websites, and some very minor publicitary coverage on local radio stations. Given that neither of these two magazines exist any more, it is highly unlikely that any additional sources will be forthcoming. In all: Delete. Guillaume2303 (talk) 12:33, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

comment i completely agree with the above analysis of the current sources. i have not however actively looked to see if other sourcing exists. -- The Red Pen of Doom 00:03, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Given the general name of the magazine, it is difficult to search. However, I don't see anything of value on the first few pages of a Google search (links above) and the sources that pop-up in the GNews source are already in the article. In addition, the mentioned SPA editors seem to have been directly involved with the magazine (from their behavior, I'd say they are former employees that didn't get their salaries when the company went bankrupt) and would have first-hand knowledge of any existing sources. As they, too, could not come up with anything substantial, I'm fairly confident that nothing substantial exists. And anyway, as said, it is highly unlikely that more sources will get published in future (and, of course, WP is not a crystal ball. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 10:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: The magazine(s) did not last long but were important enough to recieve attention from a nationally broadcast radio station and other national news sources. I've looked at them and they're credible enough. Those who would like to see the article deleted seem a bit overly determined and were the same parties who pushed for it during the last discussion, according to the logs. I question their true motives. 86.177.11.243 (talk) 17:38, 4 August 2012 (UTC) — 86.177.11.243 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Comment The only reason that "Those who would like to see the article deleted" are "the same parties who pushed for it during the last discussion" is that those parties are still convinced that this magazine is not notable. Please, you should assume good faith instead of "question their true motives". BTW, none of the radio and TV stations mentioned in the article are national, they are all local. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 18:00, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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And, IP, please make accurate statements. I was not at all involved in the previous discussion. -- The Red Pen of Doom 18:04, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As you didn't !vote yet, I assume that the IP's comments were only directed towards me. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 18:13, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strange, Guillaume2303 isn't overly eager to "assume good faith" on the editors he has criticized above, Red. Why didn't call him out on this like you did me? Curious and curiouser... 86.177.11.243 (talk) 20:45, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

1) Guillaume2303 is not stating verifiable falsehoods about my particpation in previous AfDs. 2) While we begin with the assumption of good faith that editors are here to create an encyclopedia, when the actual facts and actions show otherwise, we no longer need to make such assumptions. -- The Red Pen of Doom 13:43, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Netherlands-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:32, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep: These two magazines, while short-lived, made enough of an impact to warrant coverage from various national news sources in the Netherlands (sorry to be so contrarian, Guillaume, but, yes, several of them are). Red Pen and Guillaume are being altogether too harsh and are employing a level of scrutiny, that if utilized elsewhere on Wikipedia, would lead to 3/4s of its articles being deleted (spare me the "other crap exists" tag. This article isn't "crap"). There are nine sources here, far more than are needed to warrant Amsterdam Magazine/Schiphol Magazine's inclusion on the site. Furthermore, the article deserves to live on, if only to serve as an epithet for the magazines. Someone out there seems eager to erase all existence of them off the internet. Please also consider that the article was considered for deletion months ago. We've already covered this ground. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Albertheineken (talk • contribs) 11:11, 8 August 2012 (UTC) — Albertheineken (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

if 3/4 of the content in wikipedia is poorly sourced garbage, then YEP - IT SHOULD GO ASAP. -- The Red Pen of Doom 13:34, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The number of footnotes is of no import if the footnotes are to primary sources from the subject of the article, or mere passing mentions or routine coverage of standard corporate bankruptcy or reprints of press releases from the subject. The current sourcing fails to establish "significant coverage in reliable third party sources" -- The Red Pen of Doom 13:40, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Again, we're talking subjectivity and semantics here. What you consider "significant coverage in reliable third party sources" is not what I consider "significant coverage in reliable third party sources. At the very least, at this point, we shouldn't be quibbling over their reliability. That's been established. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Albertheineken (talk • contribs) 10:47, 9 August 2012 (UTC) — Albertheineken (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

1) its not what I consider "significant" the community has clearly come to consensus that routine local coverage of things like standard bankruptcy are not "significant" nor are product release announcements and 2) reprints of press releases are not reliable sources, even if they appear in typically reliable sources. -- The Red Pen of Doom 12:34, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Community"? A community of what, two people? I'm sorry, two pedantic Wikipedia editors does not a community make, especially after the first deletion debate came to "no consensus." Albertheineken (talk) 13:25, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you dont like the policy that has been set by the community, then you can go try to change it. It is our job to apply the policy to the articles we see.-- The Red Pen of Doom 13:27, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Subjectivity! Semantics! Albertheineken (talk) 14:47, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WP:ROUTINE. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:37, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

comment In addition to this, the two parties pushing hard for the article's deletion have displayed an unusual amount of eagerness in removing certain sentences from the article. Edits that are made to the text are quickly erased by them within minutes. While I would like to assume good faith it's rather impossible, especially since Guillaume has made assumptions (see his comments above) about those who have created the article, maintained it and would like to see it stay on Wikipedia. I could come to all sorts of conclusions about his motivations for being so dedicated to killing this article but I'd rather not stoop to his level. Albertheineken (talk) 11:11, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Contentious material about living persons (or recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced�whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable�should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion" and "Spam is the inappropriate addition of links or information to Wikipedia with the purpose of promoting an outside organization, individual or idea; it is considered harmful, please do not do it and if you find some, please remove or rewrite the content." It is entirely appropriate and supported by policy and guideline to immediately remove inappropriate content. -- The Red Pen of Doom 13:48, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As I've said elsewhere, your standards are far, far too high and if you think this article is poorly-sourced, harmful, etc., well, you've got a *lot* of work to do around here. Get crackin'. There are much bigger fish to fry than Amsterdam Magazine. You've got a lot of deletion debates ahead of you. Albertheineken (talk) 10:47, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

and, as you have been told elsewhere, the fact that there are other worse offenders in no way suggests that we give this article a pass. We clean up the crap, when we can, where we can. -- The Red Pen of Doom 12:34, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And, as I've said elsewhere, I don't think these sources are crap. I don't think this article is crap. Your standards have been set to 11 on a 10 point "reliable sources" scale. Albertheineken (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:20, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Routine coverage of a standard bankruptcy and reprints of press releases are "crap" when it comes to establishing notability. requiring more than that is not an "11" its a "1". -- The Red Pen of Doom 14:21, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Subjectivity! Semantics! Albertheineken (talk) 14:47, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:07, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep Despite several primary and questionable sources, there are enough reliable sources for this article to meet the GNG. The Steve 10:16, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep The citations all come from reputable sources, nationally recognized, etc. There's probably no need for me to repeat the comments made by others. I admit the sources surrounding the editor's book are weak, at this point, and I understand why my contribution to the article had to be cut. That said, when the book is released this fall, there's likely to be some discussion in the Dutch press about what happened with these magazines. So that said, this Wiki-article should be kept until then when additional sources can be added. Also: while I'm at it, I might as well shine a light on "Red Pen" and "Guillaume2303"'s odd/passionate quest to kill this article. Their over-eagerness is really weird. Slaapzaal (talk) 10:52, 14 August 2012 (UTC) — Slappzaal (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
- I am sure that when the book comes out and hits the best seller lists and is the subject of many academic studies placing it in context in relation to this magazine, THEN we can recreate the article with the significant coverage of the subject that will follow. -- The Red Pen of Doom 12:31, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - And when that day comes, I'm sure you'll be there to nix any and all citations stating as much as quickly, and ruthlessly. as possible, Mr. Pen. Albertheineken (talk) 14:47, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - if it, like the previous insertions, blatantly violates WP:ADVERT and WP:BLP and WP:OR, then yes, ruthless and speedy removal will be applied. -- The Red Pen of Doom 16:16, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      - I'll give you the first two but WP:OR? Naw... Slaapzaal can't be accused of that. Albertheineken (talk) 08:23, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        The WP:OR of the original insertion was the analysis/claim that the character of the book was based on a particular living person. -- The Red Pen of Doom 14:26, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        Fair enough. When/if the author of the book states as much in an interview, we'll come back around to this, I'm sure. Until then, jury's out. Albertheineken (talk) 08:40, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: The infusion of SPAs into this issue, attacking Guillaume, smells funny. It's not the first time that's happened, too. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:58, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

- Note: Guillaume was the first individual in this deletion debate to resort to SPAs, accusations and assumptions. He accused those defending this article of being directly involved with the magazine, not receiving salaries, being bitter, etc. Feel free to review his comments above. If the "in favor of keeping this article" editors here are going to face these accusations, Guillaume should face the same ones. Yes, smells funny, indeed. Albertheineken (talk) 08:40, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - I reviewed his comments above; my opinion stands. (And there is no reason for Guillaume to "face the same [accusations]" as he has done nothing that would arouse suspicion of sockpuppetry/meatpuppetry and is not an SPA. Methinks thou doeth protest too much.) - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:36, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - The record above speaks for itself. He was the first one to resort to ad hominem attacks. Take that for what you will. Furthermore, as you pointed out, this is not the first time he's been accused of having questionable personal reasons for seeing pages nixed off the site. Albertheineken (talk) 10:55, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      - are you really mounting a defense of "other people have resorted to Personal Attacks against him, so I can too"? -- The Red Pen of Doom 17:27, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      - If by "this is not the first time he's been accused of having questionable personal reasons for seeing pages nixed off the site" you mean "this is not the first time he's been personally attacked and hounded by apparent meatpuppeting single-purpose accounts for attempting to delete articles he honestly believes should not be on Wikipedia", then yes, yes I did point it out. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:01, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:47, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted as there is no clear consensus outside of the !votes by SPAs. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:48, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep even though a weak keep. Enough independent reliable sources to establish minimum notability, at least within Europe. Even though this article is doomed to remain stub or start class, it is of historical value. Yes, the wee inclusionist critter on one shoulder won over the deletionist on the other this time (don't know which is the devil and which the angel). DocTree (talk) 17:21, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Mark Arsten (talk) 01:02, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

James John Miles[edit]

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Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. Cliff Smith 17:30, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Non-notable academic. I can't (or maybe haven't) establish(ed) the notability of James John Miles within or without his field in academia. He has certainly published a number of works, but neither his work nor impact is astounding. Although he may indeed significant, it is with a heavy heart that I nominate the article concerning him for deletion. Qwerty Binary (talk) 16:10, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, is there a means by which to include more sources among those in the "Find sources" template? It seems that the sources are particularly useful among the humanities or the like and not as much for the sciences. --Qwerty Binary (talk) 16:13, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

James John Miles is a Full Professor and a head of department at a Russell Group University, in an internationally leading research group. He is widely published, and wikipedia page cites primary sources. If that's not notable enough for wikipedia then I don't know what is. There is plenty more irrelevant fluff in wikipedia, perhaps these articles should be deleted first. KEEP Duncan.Hull (talk) 17:00, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Having searched "Jim Miles" and upon further thought (even the fact that it's a Russell Group uni), I think I may have to reconsider. I think that keeping the page is valid; but, it needs further contributions, with some respectable frequency, and some — largely clean up — work. Don't you agree?

Please accept my apologies for my haste. I suppose we should either close this or have it carry on. --Qwerty Binary (talk) 18:37, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Should the page be renamed "Jim Miles", the name by which he is known to students and staff at the University of Manchester, rather than James John Miles? --Qwerty Binary (talk) 18:38, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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There is more than one Jim Miles hence the disambiguation page Duncan.Hull (talk) 21:37, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I was actually thinking using parentheses to differentiate him from all of the other Jim Mileses. --Qwerty Binary (talk) 08:27, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Delete without prejudice for recreation at a later date. There are several J J Miles' and they have to be distinguished. Search on Google scholar for "J J Miles" in appropriate topic area gives cites of 64, 41, 20, 20, 20, 18, 17,15,... with an h-index of 11. This is not enough to pass WP:Prof#C1 in a reasonably cited area; usually an h-index of 15 would be required. There does not seem to be a pass in other categories of WP:Prof. A little too early. ~~I am prepared to change my vote if additional citations are found.~~ Xxanthippe (talk) 23:01, 9 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
- I think rather than trying to do the search yourself it's easier to go from his Google scholar profile, where he's collected his own papers and separated them from the ones by other similarly-named people. That gives an h-index of 13 rather than 11, with two papers with cite counts 122 and 83 that you missed. But it doesn't seem to me that the difference from what you report is large enough to make a difference. —David Eppstein (talk) 00:10, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for this helpful advice. Xxanthippe (talk) 00:17, 10 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Jim Miles is a head of a department of an apparently prestigious university; but, all these things don't really speak too much about his work itself. Can anyone shed light on what he has done and what is the impact of that work, without hyperbole and jargon? --Qwerty Binary (talk) 08:27, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A scientist should be judged not by his (papers) prizes or other honours bestowed upon him, but by the quality of the people he has helped to produce. Let these works speak for themselves. Sydney Brenner. I've added some non-publication stuff, e.g. grants awarded (including amounts), PhDs supervised (which is significant) in order to establish notability KEEP Duncan.Hull (talk) 11:46, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete. Full professor at a major research university is suggestive that he should pass WP:PROF, but I'm just not seeing the evidence that he does. The citation record is weaker than I would expect for someone with this level of seniority (despite at least one 100+-citation paper) and it looks like this is a field where author order matters and he is neither first nor last author on that paper. I tend to think that studying magnetic storage media as he does is a bit of a dying industry but that's neither here nor there; what I'm not seeing is significant impact by him in that industry. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:57, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What is the evidence that this is a field (materials engineering) where author order matters (not that I disagree with your assessment of the BLP)? Xxanthippe (talk) 22:56, 10 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Because it's not alphabetical? —David Eppstein (talk) 07:49, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep -- I agree with Xxanthippe and David's overall assessment of the citation searches (which they're in a better position to interpret for CS/EE than I am), but I put more emphasis on the weight of his position (esp. given that it's a UK professorship) and institution plus the fact that some of his earliest first authored papers are less likely to rack up h-index citations because of their age. These aspects lead me to believe he has passed the WP:PROF bar, though just barely. As a further tie-breaker, the quality and non-overtly promotional nature of the article, which don't establish notability but help assure me that the encyclopedia is improved by its inclusion, push it over the keep line for me. -- Michael Scott Cuthbert (talk) 23:13, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP, assessing a scientists worth solely by their h-index or impact factor is bone-headed and wrong. Rochdale.Girl (talk) 12:43, 14 August 2012 (UTC) — Rochdale.Girl (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
- That is an interesting perspective. Matters of policy and suggestions for improvement are best taken to the talk page of WP:Prof where they can be applied to academic notability in general, not just this AfD. Xxanthippe (talk) 07:16, 15 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
- Maybe, but what would you have us do instead? —David Eppstein (talk) 18:15, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Please mind WP:CIVIL. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 06:20, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Who is your remark addressed to? Xxanthippe (talk) 07:12, 16 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Rochdale.Girl. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:38, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the clarification. Xxanthippe (talk) 00:10, 17 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:43, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Department head at Manchester = sufficient career achievement to merit encyclopedic biography. Carrite (talk) 04:04, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP, This academic was a previous Vice-Dean at Manchester and is now Head of a School with 250 staff 1000 students and an annual turnover of 15M GBP, rated joint 4th (with Oxford) for research excellence in the UK, and 1st in England for Research Power. A School in which the recent Nobel Prize winners did their work to discover Graphene. This is obviously a KEEP.--Sharpic (talk) 07:18, 17 August 2012 (UTC) — Sharpic (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. and may have COI. Xxanthippe (talk) 23:05, 20 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Comment. The only policy guideline that admits automatic notability by virtue of position held is WP:Prof##C6 which states "6. The person has held a highest-level elected or appointed academic post at a major academic institution or major academic society." This applies to the chief executive officer of the institution (in this case the Vice-Chancellor). It has long been held on these pages that a Head of a Department does not qualify under this category. Xxanthippe (talk) 03:47, 18 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
KEEP Grant funding in excess of £3 million is significant, added to substantial academic contributions, it seems like a no-brainer to me
Comment. The unsigned comment above is from the second member of the keep contingent to insult editors who disagree with them. Such behavior does little credit to the subject of the BLP or to the institution that he is affiliated with. It also misunderstands the nature of Wikipedia. Wikipedia does not evaluate professional standing in the way that a university appointments or promotions committee does. It judges if the subject is notable by the virtue of having been noted by multiple independent reliable sources. If the subject's receipt of grant monies has been noted by an article primarily about him in a popular or professional journal then this would have contributed to notability. Xxanthippe (talk) 00:33, 21 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Comment Xxanthippe didn't mean to offend you, and apologies for forgetting to sign my comment above. It can be frustrating when an academic article that to meets the notability criteria gets nominated for deletion and yet wikipedia is FULL of pages of dubious notability. The original person who nominated this article for deletion (QweryBinary), even says "Please accept my apologies for my haste" (in deletion) Duncan.Hull (talk) 11:29, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It is quite true that Wikipedia has plenty of pages of dubious notability, but WP:other stuff exists is no excuse for not keeping academic BLP pages to a uniformly high standard. Xxanthippe (talk) 11:55, 21 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.