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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) — Yash! ^(Y) 00:03, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Prey 2[edit]

Prey 2 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Prey 2 has been cancelled, according to a statement from developers Bethesda Softworks during PAX Australia 2014. This debate is to give a final disposition to this cancelled game. ShawnIsHere: Now in colors 01:06, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep: meets WP:NPRODUCT and WP:GNG, see the plethora of reliable sources in references. Cancellation alone does not disqualify a topic from having an article. Esquivalience ^t 01:27, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. The article's current sourcing is reliable and fine, but there's even more in a video game reliable sources custom Google search. czar ⨹ 01:00, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - The sourcing seems more than sufficient to allow me to feel comfortable about keeping this as a standalone article. I wouldn't exactly oppose a proposition to merge it into Prey (video game)#Sequel but I don't think it is necessary -- at this point, it would be an editorial content decision. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 13:18, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Not a good nomination. There are a ton of sources already in the article, and even more to be found upon searching. As Salv says above, sometimes when this happens its appropriate to merge it to the original game's article, but there's plenty of content available already in the article, so that's not a good choice either. Sergecross73 msg me 16:17, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. czar ⨹ 19:44, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oath of Genesis[edit]

Oath of Genesis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Non-notable game, no claims of notability and only primary or self-generated sources available. Declined speedy since A7 does not apply to software products. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 19:20, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: No evidence of notability for this recently-published game. The WP:SPA contributor is also the item's author and publisher. AllyD (talk) 20:35, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Fails WP:NSOFT. The article is based on primary sources and only talks about gameplay, plot, story and release. The article has nothing to suggest that it is notable and a Google search did not help. — Yash! ^[talk] 02:21, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Fails WP:GNG. Dolescum (talk) 03:09, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: Game is currently in review under IMDb and other game rating sites. Also provided official website and fan page. Search about "Oath of Genesis" and "Oath of Genesis ML" and you can learn about it. Game information is available on Wiki. So, there is more reason to delete this article. KevalPandya (Talk) 10:58, 27 April 2015 (UTC+05:30)
• Question: IMDb rating is ready for insertion into wikipedia article. KevalPandya (Talk) 21:15, 27 April 2015 (UTC+05:30)

• See Wikipedia:Citing IMDb on the limited relevance of IMDb as a source. AllyD (talk) 16:40, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Question: Is there anything I need to prove that my article has notability ? KevalPandya (Talk) 23:26, 27 April 2015 (UTC+05:30)

• This explains it quite succinctly. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 18:00, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Question: Some days ago a article was released in newspaper about owner and oath of genesis game by writer. Can it be submit as evidence as notability and independent source ? KevalPandya (Talk) 23:46, 27 April 2015 (UTC+05:30)

• @KevalPandya: It depends on various factors like the newspaper, who wrote it, what the newspaper is in relation to the game/owner, and so on. For example, if the LA Times wrote about the game and was not just reprinting a press release (or basing the bulk of the article on the press release) then that could be used. However if the owner's college newspaper wrote about the game/owner then that cannot be used since the owner attends the college and they would have a vested interest in writing about him. Similarly if the game is only briefly mentioned in relation to something else and/or is only 1-3 sentences long, then that won't show a depth of coverage and would be a WP:TRIVIAL source at best. The only way to really know is to see the newspaper article in question, to be honest. I also want to clarify a bit on the IMDb ratings. Since these ratings are the result of anonymous users logging in to the system and leaving a rating, they cannot be used as a reliable source for notability. At best IMDb can be used as a trivial source to back up basic information like cast lists and release information and even then that can be debatable. For example, at one point this one woman managed to successfully insert a profile in IMDb that asserted that she was going to play She-Hulk in one of the previous Avengers movies. This ended up being false and it was removed, but it took a really, really long time for IMDb to catch this- and this was on a very high profile film. That's kind of the reason why IMDb is kind of unusable for most data, let alone notability purposes. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 03:31, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Basically what you need right now are reviews in outlets like IGN, PC Gamer, and other review outlets that would show up as critical reviews on places like Metacritic. Examples of this can be seen here and here. I'm not really seeing this and to be honest, it doesn't look like there is any coverage at all for this game. Primary sources (anything released by the company itself) cannot show notability and to be honest, you really shouldn't be showing merchant links in the article at all. Not only can this be seen as an attempt to promote the game, but a large reason why they're considered inappropriate is because including these links can be seen as an endorsement of the product and the sellers/websites and Wikipedia wants to avoid seeming like they endorse any specific product or seller. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 03:42, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete/move to AfC. Right now this game does not pass notability guidelines. There has been no coverage of the game in any outlet, at least in any that we can verify. There is apparently a news article out there, but that one news article will not be enough to show notability for the game. I think that the best course of action right now is to move this to the draftspace at WP:AfC. Not only will this give the editor a chance to work on the article while more sources become available, but AfC will allow another editor to look at the article and approve it before it gets resubmitted to the mainspace. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 03:49, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete/move to AfC. A case of WP:TOOSOON. Pax 09:21, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep: Information, details, sources and references are updated. Check and review. KevalPandya (Talk) 21:29, 28 April 2015 (UTC+05:30)

• You cannot !vote "Keep" more than once in the same deletion debate. Sergecross73 msg me 16:07, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - I haven't found any coverage in reliable, third party sources to meet the WP:GNG. Additionally, as some others have pointed out, judging by the article creator and game creators same name, there's very likely some WP:COI and WP:PROMOTION issues here as well. (Sidenote: Also strange that all the characters of this game take character names from this game.) Sergecross73 msg me 16:16, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: I have submitted IMDb source. Also I have submitted Wikia Article. But both has removed it. Also, owner of game can submit article to Wikipedia. The point of view of article writer should be neutral. So, I have submitted as view of normal editor. Also, I haven't put any promotion links or text for game promotion. Soon I will submit rating from game rating sites as notability and independent source. So, there should be no objection about this article on Wikipedia. KevalPandya (Talk) 22:19, 28 April 2015 (UTC+05:30)

• Again, please stop writing "Keep" before every comment you make. Its only done once per discussion, so the discussion closer can roughly see the number individuals who contributed, and their stance to go with it. You've said "Keep" once already, so you shouldn't any more. Sergecross73 msg me 17:02, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep:Icekings25 (talk) 18:10, 28 April 2015 (UTC)I don't think that this page should be deleted. Its obvious that this guy is a new user so it takes time for the independent sources and I think that soon it will pass notability guidelines. So he must get some more time to prove himself.[reply]

• That's not a valid reason to keep an article. I don't mean to be blunt, but if he doesn't know what he's doing, he shouldn't be trying to create entire articles all by himself yet. But regardless, the fate of the article is decided by the third party reliable sources that discuss the subject in detail, not the skill-level of the editor. Additionally, I find it rather suspicious that your first edit in 2 years, and your 3rd edit all time, was to leave a comment here at a deletion discussion. Please be aware that this is not a vote, and that editors are not to be asking for people to comment just to defend their article for them. Sergecross73 msg me 18:19, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keval Pandya (talk) 18:40, 28 April 2015 (UTC): @Sergecross73... Hello, Icekings25 is my companion and i told him to give review about my article. I didn't tell him to defend my article from deletion. As I mentioned before, I will submit reviews by game rating sites as they approve it. What we want is little time to edit article. So, I request you to remove deletion tag from article. And in future if you see any text related to game promotion, you can delete my article even without notice. So, I request you.[reply]

• That is not how Wikipedia handles things though. If no sources exist during the course of these discussions, then the article would be deleted for now, and recreated only if/when enough third party sources cover the title in detail. If you wish to pursue creating the article after it gets deleted, you can still work on a WP:DRAFT and then get it approved through the AFC process - Articles for Creation. (This is what the editors above were referring to.) Sergecross73 msg me 19:18, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete WP:TOOSOON, fails WP:GNG. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:45, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or move to draft. There are no hits in a WP:VG/RS Google custom search, which is definitely a bad sign. If we move it to draft space, the author can work on it in peace and add sources as they become available. That's a viable alternative to deletion, though I kind of doubt that it will become notable in any reasonable period of time given its current lack of notability. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 15:45, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• @NinjaRobotPirate... Hello, I saw a Wikipedia page like mine game. Ys: The Ark of Napishtim. Can you differentiate that page and mine. Both page has given same sources. Also, admin has just put "verification" tag on that. There is no speedy deletion tag on that page. On other hand, i have also given information from IMDb. One editor has complained me that, that I have edited every thing. But, i have just put plot correctly and my profile small bio correctly. Everything else is generated by IMDb. So, Please remove speedily deletion tag from this page.— Preceding unsigned comment added by KevalPandya (talk • contribs) 16:09, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The IMDb is not a reliable source, as it is user-generated. It doesn't matter if you add a link to the IMDb. The other article is notable because it has coverage in reliable sources. If you do a Google search for that article, it turns out there are many reviews listed at Metacritic, including IGN. Notability is intrinsic to a topic, and sources merely need to exist rather than be listed in the article. That means that nobody is forced to add sources to the article, but they should. If no sources exist, then the article can be deleted. That's what's going on here. We need coverage in reliable source, and the IMDb is not a reliable source. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 16:48, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Additionally, a simple search shows that there are all sorts of sources available for the Ys article you listed above. There's 35 separate reviews at the PS2 version's MetaCritic page alone. The difference is that there are zero reviews available at MetaCritic for Oath of Genesis, and zero sources available at all for it that aren't connected to you. I assure you that, if someone nominated that Ys article for deletion, someone would point out all the sources that exist but just aren't on there yet, and the deletion discussion would be dismissed. Sergecross73 msg me 17:42, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Good point, there is a difference between a badly written article about a notable subject and an ariicle about a subject that is not notable.--64.229.166.24 (talk) 05:37, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete-I can't even find a page on Gamefaqs for this. The IMDB page does not sound like its a video game either looking over it. Wgolf (talk) 17:13, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Yes, I haven't found a single reliable third party source on it yet. Most Google searches just come up with a bunch of irrelevant hits related to the The Bible, due to the word "Oath" showing up in the Book of Genesis. Sergecross73 msg me 17:37, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete – Fails WP:GNG. --The1337gamer (talk) 19:24, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Detele - Fails WP:NSOFT and WP:GNG. Ijon (talk) 06:49, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Michig (talk) 06:35, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

List of Bloodborne characters[edit]

List of Bloodborne characters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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The list of characters is not notable enough to have its own page. Very limited information is provided. AdrianGamer (talk) 04:35, 25 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per what was already said here. —DangerousJXD (talk) 06:26, 25 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as I said in merge discussion, not worth redirecting and a list of only 2 characters with no significant commentary. --The1337gamer (talk) 10:15, 25 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete. The topic of Bloodborne characters lacks significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. (?) It had no dedicated coverage in a video game reliable sources custom Google search—there isn't enough secondary source coverage to justify a dedicated article. The page is better off deleted than redirected and later recreated. Please ping me you find more (non-English and offline) sources. czar ⨹ 21:01, 25 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Character lists tend to fall under WP:GAMECRUFT if not notable enough, and this is no exception. BlookerG ^talk 12:02, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Mojang. Two "Keep" opinions were provided. One was a generic WP:PERABOVE which I've set aside as it's not clear to what it is referring. The other offers more detail, but there's no clear rationale for keeping that's based on a policy. Redirecting rather than deleting as a plausible search term. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 12:03, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dinnerbone[edit]

Dinnerbone (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Aside from working as a programmer for a company that has received a decent amount of attention, the subject of this page does not convey that this individual is any more notable than the forty-six other Mojang employees. Unless there are sources that indicate that this figure has achieved something notable themselves, this page should be deleted. DARTHBOTTO _talk•cont 05:24, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - There are news links from over the years but nothing significant or notable and Books found nothing. SwisterTwister talk 19:45, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Looking over various factors, he has 428,000 followers on Twitter and 42,000 subscribers on YouTube which is better than most developers. And using this search it seems he's a public facing developer, being quoted plenty of times about news, changes and releases relating to Minecraft. I can at least say there's no mention of his rework of the Minecraft Ender Dragon and other points that would be worth mentioning in the article --- :D Derry Adama (talk) 13:46, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Based on User:DerryAdama's comments, it seems reasonable to keep the article. Dinnerbone is probably the most widely recognizable employee of Mojang, after Bergensten and Persson, even ranking higher than Mojang's co-founders. Whether this is due to prevalence online in social (or other) media or otherwise is debatable, but ultimately the perks of being a 'public facing' developer makes this article worth keeping. After all, one wouldn't propose a the page for a writer's magnum opus for deletion only because their other books aren't notable enough for articles of their own. Plot Citizen (talk) 17:55, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Most of the article is fluff and can be summarized in one sentence the company article under a section called "key people" or something. Additionally this article is basically an orphan, except for being included on the Mojang template. —Мандичка^YO 😜 04:17, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• @Wikimandia: You're proposing a merge and redirect then?--- :D Derry Adama (talk) 16:41, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - No coverage in main stream media significantly about Adams per WP:BASIC. Spshu (talk) 15:22, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Mojang --- :D Derry Adama (talk) 20:53, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Mojang or Minecraft: fails WP:BASIC, many passing mentions, but very little actual coverage. Esquivalience ^t 02:03, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Article topic lacks significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. (?) As for the argument that the subject is popular on Twitter, still no part of this bio meets the notability guideline for creatives. Only hits in a video game reliable sources custom Google search were in passing. The subject is not mentioned at either the Mojang or Minecraft articles, so those would not be worthwhile redirects. If there was something on Bukkit, perhaps, but there isn't a section for that (perhaps because it isn't notable). Please ping me you find more (non-English and offline) sources. czar ⨹ 19:52, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong keep - As above. J 1982 (talk) 11:29, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 15:10, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's a skull[edit]

It's a skull (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Prodded for WP:GNG and WP:NSONG with no references and no claim of notability. Prod removed with the comment, "this is definitely relevant, and the capitalization is correct per the original usage. this is one of the first "memes" -- thus its historical relevance. (I deleted the recommendation for article deletion)" Now brought to AfD for further discussion. Richhoncho (talk) 19:20, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak keep. I know this song exists, and the user who removed the prod was correct, this was one of the first "memes", in the middle 1990s, before most of the people who use "memes" were even born. However, the only references I can supply are to the magazine itself. I had the actual song on an AP coverdisk myself from the middle 1990s to the middle 2000s, but I fear I have since thrown it away. I might still have the actual file saved on my computer (I transferred the entire hard disk of my A4000 to a modern Linux PC before the A4000 died), but I'm not at all certain about it. JIP | Talk 19:44, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep or Merge into Valhalla: Before the War at the risk of WP:COATRACK --- :D Derry Adama (talk) 03:37, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete. The calls for keep above have no policy-backed rationale. If the subject is indeed important, it will have received significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. (?) It had zero hits in a video game reliable sources custom Google search. Please ping me you find more (non-English and offline) sources. I would entertain a redirect to Before the War (as a useful search term) but only if this subject was mentioned and reliably sourced within the article, which it is not. czar ⨹ 21:04, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - this article has no references, let alone any reliable sources.--Rpclod (talk) 04:35, 8 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - not a single [{WP:RS]], not sure why it is notable Chrislk02 ^{Chris Kreider} 16:04, 8 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per WP:NSONG. The article has no references at all, let alone significant coverage in reliable sources. Random86 (talk) 21:33, 11 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Consensus herein is for article retention. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 01:19, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Cloud9 (team)[edit]

Cloud9 (team) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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No indication of notability is given. Notability tag was removed without any effort made to show notability. TexasAndroid (talk) 18:49, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Keep, _{@TexasAndroid: pay attention to the talk page}. Just to reiterate my points - C9 is one of the most notable eSports team outside of Korea, next to TSM, fnatic, Team Dignitas, Ninjas in Pyjamas and other notable teams. Being the competitors in the top North American and World tournaments in Dota, LoL, Smash and as well as the new games HotS, Hearthstone and Halo: The Master Chief Collection. According to http://www.esportsearnings.com/teams they are the 12th highest earning team calculated by winnings (liable to change)

The intrinsic problem is that articles like this straddle WP:CREATIVE, WP:ATHLETE, WP:COMPANY and WP:ENT. The frontline gamers who are known both as entertainers and eSports Competitors, if we cross WP:PORNBIO into this where to be notable you need to have awards and substantial investment into a scene, then C9 have fulfilled this. Per WP:ENT, They even have a significant cult following as can be shown in the support present like in their recent performance in the NA LCS Springslit. Per WP:COMPANY there is even more Secondary and tertiary coverage to C9. Ideally WP:ESPORTS task force needs to come up with guidelines on this, but due to the only editors working on WP:ESPORTS articles being @ImRespawn and Prisencolinensinainciusol: the coverage is sparse, so just give it a WP:CHANCE, don't WP:DEMOLISH and allow for some WP:POTENTIAL.

--- :D Derry Adama (talk) 22:59, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep As DerryAdama has pointed out Cloud9 has had pretty extensive coverage, including in some mainstream outlets. I've noticed that a number of esports articles end up getting nominated for deletion by an editor who is presumably unfamiliar with the subject. That being said I'm going to see if I can draft up some esports notability guidelines so it's a bit clearer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prisencolinensinainciusol (talk • contribs) 04:52, 21 April 2015‎ (UTC)[reply]

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• Comment - I spot checked a few of the references, and many of these are extremely trivial passing mentions. For example, this Yahoo source listed above is extremely short, and only mentions the name Cloud 9 - nothing else - in the article. That's not significant coverage, so that source wouldn't go towards proving it meets the WP:GNG. Still undecided personally, just wanted to encourage people to look closely at the source, and don't just assume there's enough coverage because someone blasted a huge list of sources. Sergecross73 msg me 15:03, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Same with this Engadget article. Yes, its a RS, but very little of the article is about Cloud 9, and of that already small part, much of it is a few direct quotes from one of their members rather than any coverage on them. And the IGN source? Less than 2 sentences of it actually discuss Cloud 9 itself. I hope there are better sources out there, so far every one I'm checking is very trivial coverage... Sergecross73 msg me 15:05, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to League of Legends Championship Series or another competition article, maybe Dota? I reviewed all of the above sources. The only ones that matter for our purposes (secondary, reliable, independent sources) are:

All the other stuff was passing/non-dedicated mentions or unreliable sources. At most, the reliable ones of the lot could be used to source a few sentences on the team's sponsorships, but not much more. I'm willing to change my mind if others can find articles from vetted video games sources. Myself, I found only passing mentions in the WP:VG/RS custom Google search—not nearly enough to justify an article. I'd entertain a redirect to one of the competitions as a useful search term, but I'm not seeing enough to write a sourced article on the team, as is. And for the whole content guideline discussion above—the only relevant guideline for this article type is the general notability guideline: either sources exist or they don't. In this case, the sourcing is very thin. Please ping me if you find more (non-English and offline) sources. czar ⨹ 20:53, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Czar: with the custom search; did you search Cloud 9 or Cloud9 because Cloud 9 doesn't bring any relevant results but "Cloud9" does. Showing IGN, Kotaku, PC Gamer and gamestar.hu on the first page. Then miastogier.pl, polygon.com and 4gamer.net on the second.--- :D Derry Adama (talk) 00:44, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Both (as well as other variants), but I also established that having a bunch of search hits from IGN, Kotaku, doesn't actually mean that the subject was covered in any meaningful way. I reviewed the sources and only listed those that I thought mattered towards the subject's case. The rest were passing mentions and/or had just as much coverage about a number of other non-notable teams. czar ⨹ 02:50, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm inclined to agree with you here. A ton of trivial mentions, very little significant coverage. I'd recommend a redirect as well, though I don't know what the best target would be... Sergecross73 msg me 13:00, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I added League of Legends Championship Series as my suggested target. From the coverage, the team is best known for their League and Dota competition, so one of those where they're actually mentioned by name would be best. I chose the former. czar ⨹ 13:43, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Actually redirecting is an incredibly poor idea, as alone there are six other teams not including the LCS team in six different games. People coming here may be looking for information on the match fixing by C9 in the CS:GO sphere

• http://www.dailydot.com/esports/match-fixing-counter-strike-ibuypower-netcode-guides/
• which was quoted by http://www.pcgamesn.com/counter-strike-global-offensive/valve-confirms-csgo-match-fixing-allegations-issues-bans-to-seven-players

The Dota team is the current record holder for the longest competitive game ever

• http://kotaku.com/we-just-witnessed-the-longest-dota-2-match-ever-1692715512
• http://www.dailydot.com/esports/cloud9-scaryfacez-longest-game-dota/

There is plenty of coverage from reliable eSports sources like the DailyDot, but your search doesn't curate them as most of the Gaming news sites don't give much coverage to eSports, other than saying it exists.

--- :D Derry Adama (talk) 23:00, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

People also come for all sorts of things we don't provide. The idea of a redirect is to provide a reasonable result for someone looking for the subject, which the above redirect would do. This said, I dug around in your sources again (had seen the Kotaku article and pcgamesn has no hallmarks of reliability). http://www.dailydot.com/tags/cloud-9/ would be very useful if we considered Daily Dot reliable. I've brought the site up for consideration at WT:VG/RS. czar ⨹ 00:23, 23 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. The Daily Dot looks like it'll be added to the list of vetted video game sources and their wide Cloud9 coverage easily brings the subject past the general notability guideline. @Sergecross73 and TexasAndroid. czar ⨹ 13:15, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Redirect - per Czar, and my commentary above, to his redirect suggestions. Its a plausible search term, but right now, a vast majority of the coverage is extremely trivial. Redirect for now, and maybe spin it out to its own article if it gets a few more sources that are not first party, not trivial, and reliable, like the types of sources found at WP:VG/RS. Sergecross73 msg me 14:12, 22 April 2015 (UTC) The initial spotchecked sources did not meet the definition of "significant coverage", but the ones pointed out by Czar and Hahnchen do, so I'm find with keeping now. Sergecross73 msg me 14:30, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• I've found quite a few reliable sources focused on C9 that I'm starting to put in the article. I have no idea how everyone managed to find so few. There's even a print source, a cover article in Playboy that featured Cloud9. I think beyond a doubt that the article will be a keep. The only logical RD I can think of would be to something like List of esports teams or something, since C9 has a notable prsence in several games, not to the LCS article.--Prisencolinensinainciusol (talk) 03:10, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Covered extensively in reliable sources independent of the subject. Playboy OnGamers Even teams which haven't been covered to this degree should probably be kept, and notability guidelines should more closely follow WP:NSPORT which is more almanac-y in nature than other video game guidelines. - hahnchen 20:13, 23 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per sources provided by --- :D Derry Adama shows the subject clearly passes GNG. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 17:10, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Derry Adama's persuasive arguments. Pax 23:53, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Nakon 01:13, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Megaverse Simulation Network[edit]

Megaverse Simulation Network (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Multiples Google News, Books and browser searches with "Megaverse Simulation Network" and with "Open Source" and "software" added provided nothing. I'm not an expert with software or this product but it seems there's not much. SwisterTwister talk 20:16, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete. Finding no secondary source coverage in the typical searches, but didn't look too hard considering that the "game" and "genre" aspect of the article's first draft appears to be a joke. The software is clearly described as a simulator and not a real-time strategy game. Please ping me if other sources, esp. non-English or offline, are found. czar ⨹ 02:24, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Esquivalience ^t 00:10, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dance Dance Revolution Extreme 2[edit]

Dance Dance Revolution Extreme 2 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Non-notable subject; mostly promotional (article) in nature. Quis separabit? 12:54, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep. The subject has been reviewed by many outlets that the video games wikiproject has deemed reliable. Prose quality concerns are not deletion concerns and can be easily fixed. Withdrawal recommended. czar ⨹ 00:48, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Was just about to post the same link Czar had - and there's at least 3-4 good RS reviews in that list that meet WP:VG/S standards (eg PSM Magazine, Play Magazine, G4 TV). --MASEM (t) 01:38, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, notable as described above. Not really promotional, just short with an excessive list of songs. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 02:39, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: Is this a mistake? I don't see how it meets WP:PROMO. or fails notability. ― Padenton|✉   02:53, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of it was cleaned up. @Rms125a@hotmail.com czar ⨹ 03:24, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ahh that makes a little more sense. ― Padenton|✉   16:16, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. The Delete !votes are pretty much "not notable" without explanation and without addressing the sourcing unearthed by Satellizer ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 15:12, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Mark Kern[edit]

Mark Kern (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Doesn't seem to be enough here for a standalone article. In its current state, the only information in here is that he used to work on World of Warcraft and that he used to work on Firefall. I'm not sure what could go into this article that couldn't be added to the articles on Firefall or World of Warcraft. Breadblade (talk) 16:51, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep, this person has received quite a bit of coverage by reliable sources, such as

Mark Kern reportedly fired from his job as CEO of Red 5 Studios, Gamasutra

Mark Kern addresses his departure from Red 5 Studios, Engadget

The rise and fall of Mark Kern: how one man may have doomed Firefall and The9 (UPDATED), TechInAsia

Red 5 co-founder Mark Kern steps down as CEO, VG247

Firefall dev CEO apologises for open beta woes, VG247

Kern: MMO noob zones cost about $430K per gameplay hour, VG247

Firefall boss feels MMO developers have “killed a genre” by catering to accessibility over achievement, VG247

Red 5 boss calls console model “broken”, “dead”, VG247

The last three sources I feel are especially interesting and can be used to write about his views on video gaming. Satellizer (´ ･ ω ･ `) 00:51, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. You're right that there isn't much that wouldn't also fit into other articles, but there is additionally enough coverage about his own views as a public figure to warrant his own article. There's actually enough from Engadget alone (and there are plenty more hits in a video game reliable sources custom Google search, though many are duplicate coverage). czar ⨹ 02:31, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Not one source for his career history.--SimpleStitch (talk) 19:11, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Un-notable. Are we supposed to have a wiki page for every employee of every company in the world? Apparently the most exciting thing he's done is get fired, and plenty of people don't have pages for being fired.81.104.217.234 (talk) 02:58, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No comment on the aforementioned links? Specifically the Engadget link to their category of Kern-focused articles? czar ⨹ 03:33, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Not enough sources for career history, not notable enough to be mentioned on the World of Warcraft page or any other game's pages except for Firefall.--Frybread (talk) 18:20, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. Kern apparently has some involvement in the Gamergate controversy, which attracted attention from VG247. Maybe all this ad up to notability? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:57, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:37, 25 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dragon Ball Online Global[edit]

Dragon Ball Online Global (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Note that a duplicate article was created at Dragon Ball Global (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) added by -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 00:11, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A proposed project that has no secondary source coverage. Delete per WP:CRYSTAL. TYelliot | Talk | Contribs 08:24, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete, "closed alpha testing of Dragon Ball Online Global was announced to begin at 20th April 2015" is anyway too soon, and a new section in Dragonball Online could cover the topic for, say, the next 20 months. –Be..anyone (talk) 23:16, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Article topic lacks significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. (?) I'd redirect to Dragon Ball Online if there was any secondary coverage at all, but the subject had no meaningful hits in a video game reliable sources custom Google search. Please ping me you find more (non-English and offline) sources. czar ⨹ 02:35, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. This fan project doesn't even seem notable enough for redirect or mention in the Dragon Ball Online article. --The1337gamer (talk) 11:46, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Soft Deletion equivalent to an uncontested PROD. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 15:15, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Derketo (Conan)[edit]

Derketo (Conan) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Character from the Conan series that was barley ever used at all-probably a redirect or merge be the best for her. Wgolf (talk) 18:31, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment, have added some words to article about character being in a mmorpg and so added to wikiproject videgames deletion list. Coolabahapple (talk) 11:44, 23 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Dissident's point is heard, but the subject does not appear to meet any criteria of WP:CREATIVE, and the article is practically just a credits list. I'm also opting not to redirect per WP:ASTONISH -- just because he's mention in the infobox of another article that is totally not about him doesn't mean the title should point there. This title can be recreated and redirected to an appaopriate target by anybody who finds one. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 15:11, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• This wasn't particularly strong consensus towards either outcome and I hesitated for a while between an NC, redirect or delete closure, and initially opted for what seemed the simplest (delete, with the option to redirect the title) -- however, after a request by the subject, I am changing my close for no consensus (thus restoring the article). Good points are raised in favor of keeping, deleting, or redirecting the article but no specific argument trumps any other. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 17:57, 20 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Matt Furniss[edit]

Matt Furniss (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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No non-trivial third-party coverage to indicate how the subject is notable. Having a lot of production credits does not satisfy WP:GNG whether it be film, video games, or music. Lots of people work on multiple creative projects. Most of them aren't notable by Wikipedia standards. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 02:32, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Don't see why this is even up for debate, as Furniss is a well known sound designer from the 90s. It would be different if he worked on games without Wikipedia articles, but that isn't the case here. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 04:33, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment As I've already said, being involved with a production does not in itself satisfy WP:BIO notability. Robin Harlan has a lot more credits as a foley artist, but as with Furniss, you won't find any non-trivial coverage from reliable third party sources to establish notability. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 23:01, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Dissident93, if no sources discuss him in detail, would you at least be able to show that he is "well known" by the guideline for creative professionals? czar ⨹ 18:17, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Czar: Finding reliable third party sources on any vgm related topic can be difficult, even for the way more known ones such as Uematsu and Sakuraba. By the way, does rule number 3 on the RS link seems to contradict what Ohnoitsjamie said above, or am I mis-reading? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:28, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There would have to be some way of signifying his impact on the field, then. The very idea of Wikipedia is to report the sources and if there are no sources, there is no article we will be able to write, so there has to be a really good reason or some immense notability for doing so. What is rule #3? Don't see any numbered at WP:RS. czar ⨹ 18:40, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Redirect. Article topic lacks significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. (?) Subject only had passing mentions in a video game reliable sources custom Google search—no in-depth coverage. But please ping me you find more (non-English and offline) sources. So for redirects, his best known games are Lemmings and Mortal Kombat, but both pages currently don't mention him. A redirect to Excitebike 64 or Fear Effect should suffice as a useful search term. czar ⨹ 18:40, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - No notability indicated. The list of contributions is just a guy doing his job.--Rpclod (talk) 14:21, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. j⚛e decker^talk 03:38, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Minigames of Five Nights at Freddy's[edit]

Minigames of Five Nights at Freddy's (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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The article does not meet general notability guidelines. It does not cite any sources. It is entirely composed of original research, and is written like a game guide. Wani (talk) 18:38, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that this article should be removed because I worked very hard on this article and I dedicated about 3 hours of my own life to this. I just want to help. I'll edit it and make it better, just please don't delete it.

There are other outlets to publish game guides, such as game wikis or wikias, your own website, etc. Wikipedia is not a game guide, nor a repository of all conceivable information. Articles must meet notability guidelines, and avoid what Wikipedia is not. Some content here might be incorporated into the main article, but effort does not count in discussions, policies and guidelines do. --Animalparty-- (talk) 06:19, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per WP:GAMEGUIDE and not meeting WP:LISTN. following up on my previous comment, very little, if any of this content belongs in the main article, and should simply be succinctly summarized. --Animalparty-- (talk) 06:25, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete. Gameguides are outside the scope of what we cover, but you can take it to another wiki. The minigames do not have independent coverage from outside sources. (?) Not worthwhile to redirect to the game. czar ⨹ 22:18, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Nihilumbra. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 00:40, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

BeautiFun Games[edit]

BeautiFun Games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Unremarkable games manufacturer. Seems to have only created 1 game, and no independent coverage or reliable sources. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:32, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to Nihilumbra, the company's (as yet) sole creation. In the future, if they publish more notable titles, the redirect can be re-expanded into a full article. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 14:03, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Redirect as the company has only released one game and News searches show many results but basically all for the game. I can continue searching but I think I know what I'll find, not much. SwisterTwister talk 19:18, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Davewild (talk) 19:16, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

O2Jam[edit]

O2Jam (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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I couldn't establish that this meets WP:ORG or WP:GNG. Has been tagged for notability for 7 years; hopefully we can now get this resolved. Notifying Woodroar, Marasmusine. Boleyn (talk) 18:40, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per WP:FAILN, I was unable to find any coverage any coverage beyond routine mentions of any game WP:ROUTINE, the only Scholarly article on the evolution of the Chinese gaming industry mentions in a list but nothing else. Per WP:ALTERNATIVE I recommend create an article for this content in Wikia.com Bryce Carmony (talk) 19:05, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete, no references since 2007. –Be..anyone (talk) 11:12, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Article topic lacks significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. (?) Only meaningful hit (apart from press releases and listings) in a video game reliable sources custom Google search was this review. There are no worthwhile redirect targets. Please ping me if more (especially non-English and offline) sources are found. czar ⨹ 21:10, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. When weighing the arguments, I seem to lean towards a "keep" closure, but the points brought forward by Czar, NARH and Johnny aren't exactly dismissable either, so I'll close as NC (hoping Serge's sources will be used for the article), but with no objection if later consensus on the talk page is to redirect the title. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 15:04, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dragon Hopper[edit]

Dragon Hopper (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Another editor redirected this article to the console article, which is pretty much a deletion, so we might as well have the actual discussion. I'm not sure I disagree (I'm impartial really), since this was an unreleased game with only one source. The material is actually all OR from editors playing the ROM on their computers. I doubt enough coverage in RSs could ever be found. But, our criteria for inclusion on video games is incredibly low, so who knows. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 17:01, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Redirect. The reason why I redirected the article was because after an extensive search through Google Books, Google News, Bing News, the Reliable Sources Google Search Engine, and the Situaitonal Sources Google Search Engine, I really found very little of note to mention. There's a lot of people saying that same things about it, and that's about it. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 02:41, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • New Age Retro Hippie, for some reason I read the history wrong and thought the user before you had redirected it, otherwise I would have left as is. I can't imagine you did that on a VG article without checking for sources thoroughly. :/ That's what I get for drive-by editing. Oh well. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 05:02, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Hey, NBD. :) - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 06:38, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to List of Virtual Boy games as a valid search term. @JohnnyMrNinja, this looks straightforward, so how would you feel about withdrawing the deletion nom for a redirect? (Such solutions are better outcomes to pursue before coming to AfD.) czar ⨹ 10:36, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep - I'm hesitant to delete an article for a game that received an entire 2 pages dedicated to it by a nationally publicated, hard copy source like Nintendo Power. See here. 1up.com, a reliable source, covered it a bit, and suggested that Nintendo Power had even written a review for the game, according to this. This fansite seems to suggest it made appearances in a bunch of other print magazines at the time as well. I think this just barely scrapes above the WP:GNG. Sergecross73 msg me 16:27, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I would call the NP article a preview spread—heavy on the images, low on info. (I'd only use it as a source if the reviews didn't cover the basic gameplay.) The 1UP article makes passing mention. Flipping through the fansite sources, there is no in-depth coverage. Most of the scans just mention the game by name without saying a word more. There's not enough to source a full article on the game, but it would be worth mentioning in the VB console article, methinks. czar ⨹ 22:22, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The NP article, while there's lots of pictures, is still two pages - one page without images - so that would be significant coverage. The 1up.com source, yes, I realize is more of a passing mention, I was more swayed by their mention that there were reviews/review copies circulated - more about the prospect of sources being out there somewhere. Sergecross73 msg me 12:28, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep as barely meeting notability per the above. I did a quick search for Japanese sources and didn't find anything. I'm sure it was covered in Famitsu and other trade magazines, but their articles are not available online. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:06, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Can we not make "there must be sources" arguments? Let's try to find these external reviews before we keep based on their supposed existence and then no one ever does the sleuthing to find them. If we can also keep in mind the game wasn't actually released, so the existence of these reviews (Famitsu's for example) will have been a fluke—more unlikely than not. czar ⨹ 12:24, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can we not dismiss something about which you obviously know very little? Famitsu and other trade magazines often have articles on games 1-2 years before they come out. They'll have announcement articles, productions articles, and even articles about a project which has been shut down. I never said there would be reviews, but simply articles about the game. I saw these kinds of articles all the time when I lived in Japan. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:50, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No need to be patronizing. I'm an experienced WPVG editor. If you're unable to find the relevant Famitsu articles, which editors rarely can, then the article will lay dormant in the same unsourced state, collecting cruft. We redirect these articles so they can only host what we can reference. There is no justification to keep an article if the argument is that sourcing must exist somewhere and no one is willing to find it. czar ⨹ 15:14, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Articles are kept on the basis of sourcing potential all the time, especially when there is reason to believe that they're out there but we haven't found th all yet, the prime example being games of the early/mid 90s, when nothing's online and it's hard to track down print sources. Sergecross73 msg me 01:48, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)I'd like to think that I've been following the vg AfD beat for a while now and I can't call recall a single AfD that was kept on the basis that coverage must exist somewhere, or that a Nintendo Power review may or may not exist and that Famitsu must have some non-English coverage. In fact, I haven't heard of articles being kept based on their potential for sourcing rather than what has actually been confirmed to exist (which is why "sources must exist" is at WP:ATA). I'm willing to even help look for coverage but we have zero leads that this other stuff exists. What are the chances that any editor will reasonably be willing to put in more effort than that? This article will have been kept at AfD and remain unsourced despite being non-notable. czar ⨹ 02:34, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, if the article is kept, it'd be because a nationally published , well-known, reliable source magazine did a 2 page article on it, and that people reasonably assumed that somewhere out there in the world, there's a second print source out there to make it meet the "multiple sources" aspect of the GNG. (Not to mention, the various brief mentions out there.) Also, I've been commenting at AFD for at least as long as you have as well - I know there's precent for my stance as well. I'll have to do some digging to find some examples... Sergecross73 msg me 02:42, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per Sergecross73. I think it squeaks by. Pax 00:25, 6 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. In the absence of reliable sources, a smerge seems inadvisable. Deor (talk) 14:37, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Fighting Is Magic: Premium[edit]

Fighting Is Magic: Premium (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Non-notable, sourced solely to blogs. ViperSnake151  Talk  03:06, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete All sourced to blogs. Don't see anything that could be moved into the main Fighting is Magic article. --MASEM (t) 03:21, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge and Redirect to Fighting Is Magic. Does not need an own article. Gial Ackbar (talk) 07:10, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Zero secondary coverage—not even enough to justify the aforementioned redirect. Article topic lacks significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. (?) It had no hits in a video game reliable sources custom Google search. It is not worthwhile to redirect on the basis of primary sources. Please ping me if more (non-English and offline) sources are unearthed. czar ⨹ 11:29, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. The discussion, notably after the thorough discussion of sources by Tokyogirl79, can be summed up as "no consensus between delete and weak keep". There was canvassing but this does not seem to have noticeably skewed the outcome. The article survives by default by a slim margin, but can be relisted if it is not improved in terms of sourcing in a reasonable amount of time.  Sandstein  21:08, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

MonsterMMORPG[edit]

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MonsterMMORPG (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This article does not demonstrate the notability of the game. Quinto Simmaco and I read through the references and they are little more than game guides, interviews, and/or Pokemon comparisons. Primefac (talk) 20:17, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak Keep - It has significant coverage in reliable sources, which means it probably passes the notability threshold. Engadget, SiliconEra are easy-to-find English language sources; there many more sources in other languages (which is understandable since the dev himself is Turkish). ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉

@Salvidrim!, courtesy ping, considering the discussion below czar ⨹ 18:06, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak Delete. I see some coverage, but I don't see it as significant. Engadget and Siliconera are both interviews, which is uncomfortably close to SPS territory. Merlin'in Kazanı and Techshout are trivial. The others may be high-quality, reliable sources, but I think a native speaker familiar with WP:IRS—or, preferably, WP:VG/RS—would need to weigh in on that. They certainly look to me like the spammy linkspam/game guide sites we generally consider unreliable (as others mentioned above), but of course looks can be deceiving. Woodroar (talk) 02:21, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete. Only meaningful hits in a video game reliable sources custom Google search were the aforementioned Engadget/Joystiq interview and this PR mention. Not nearly enough to substantiate an article, but one Turkish source looks okay: Oyungezer is a print magazine. For me, this nom hinges on haberimport, which appears to follow a press ethics policy for reliability. If the site was deemed reliable, I would change my conclusion, but its article on MonsterMMORPG appears to be lifted in large part from a press release. The phrase "Oyun sayfasında temel olarak harita ekranını kullanıyoruz." shows up in several other sources as well as another cited source. Repackaged press releases wouldn't count as significant coverage, leaving an interview, a small article, and a few passing mentions. There are no worthwhile redirect targets. Please ping me if more (non-English and offline) sources are unearthed. czar ⨹ 11:24, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - When all the references are considered, the game passes notability threshold cumulatively. If and when custom Google search is used to search with the term "monstermmorpg" the following pages are given as search results: game listing 1, game listing 2 at IGN, full editor article at Engadget, game listing at ru:Absolute_Games, news at gamershell.

As for coverage the MonsterMMORPG page has four references listed - video game reliable sources. The listings are as following: full article by Jessica Conditt on Joystiq, full article by Chris Priestman on siliconera (Alexa Rank: 10454 , Page Rank: 5), game listing on GameSpot and editorial given game wiki on IGN. They also include the following references that are English and all have editorial publishing: Kyle Hayth article on browsergamez (Alexa Rank: 208890, Page Rank: 4), Remko Molenaar and Darren Henderson editors article at OnRPG (Alexa Rank: 68021, Page Rank: 5) which is currently being discussed to be whether added or not video game reliable sources and currently listed there, game listing on whatmmorpg (Alexa Rank: 817321 , Page Rank: 2), editorial game listing and special given developer blog on mmorpg.com (Alexa Rank: 12513 , Page Rank: 5) which is currently being discussed to be whether added or not video game reliable sources and currently listed there, editorial approved game listing on indiedb (Alexa Rank: 16606, Page Rank: 5), editorial game listing on gameslikefinder (Alexa Rank: 50514 , Page Rank: 3), editorial game listing on xmmorpg (Alexa Rank: 209912 , Page Rank: 3), editorial game listing on gameguyz (Alexa Rank: 59045 , Page Rank: 3), game listing by staff Demetrius Crasto on techshout (Alexa Rank: 84868 , Page Rank: 5), editorial game listing on newrpg (Alexa Rank: 1248161 , Page Rank: 0), editorial game listing on mmogames (Alexa Rank: 38427 , Page Rank: 3), editorial game news on kpopstarz (Alexa Rank: 11928 , Page Rank: 5).

The non english noteable references are as follows: game article and extensive video by Marlene Kless on games.de (German, Alexa Rank: 313642 , Page Rank: 4), editorial game listing on 07073.com (Chinese, Alexa Rank: 3197 , Page Rank: 5), game article, listing and review by Allan Valin on baixaki.com.br (Portuguese, Alexa Rank: 593 , Page Rank: 6), game review by Anh Đức on game4v.com (Vietnamese, Alexa Rank: 9576 , Page Rank: 2) which is currently maintenance but visible at google cache, game review by M.İhsan Tatari on oyungezer (Turkish, Also Printed, Alexa Rank: 34818 , Page Rank: 4), game news by Ceyda Doğan on merlininkazani (Turkish, Alexa Rank: 18095 , Page Rank: 4), game news by Engin Yüksel on teknolojioku (Turkish, Alexa Rank: 16365 , Page Rank: 5), editorial game news on indir.com (Turkish, Alexa Rank: 27852 , Page Rank: 3), editorial game news on frpnet.net (Turkish, Alexa Rank: 170997 , Page Rank: 4).

There absolutely could be more listings, news or articles added, but when all the information provided is consireded, I believe this game deserves to be listed on Wikipedia. Knost05 (talk) 20:42, 12 April 2015 (UTC) — Knost05 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Alexa and Page Rank don't matter. The reliable sources we value have staff authors with a background in something like (games) journalism and by-line (not a pseudonym), editors and editorial policies, and a "reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" as demonstrated by third-party sources citing their articles. We don't care about games databases, fan/user-submitted material, linkfarms, PR releases or self-published articles, or trivial content like two sentences and a screenshot. We need substantial articles written by third-parties to prove that a subject is important enough to warrant an article on the English Wikipedia. (What other languages allow or don't allow also doesn't matter. They're all separate.) I should also mention that you appear to be involved in the development of the game yourself, which is a conflict of interest that you should have divulged immediately. Woodroar (talk) 21:18, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I absolutely believe that there are substantial articles proving that this game is substantial enough in importance that it deserves an article on English Wikipedia. According to WP:RELIABLE , news organizations can be counted as reliable. References siliconera, browsergamez, techshout, teknolojioku, 07073 are counted as news sites within Google, who don't count a site as a legitimate news site lightly, meaning these sites have been found worthy and have the authority to be counted as news sites. Indiedb and Baixaki also have a lot of references from websites that are counted as legitimate news sites on Google. Also, MonsterMMORPG being listed at IGN, Engadget, Absolute_Games, GameSpot means this game was noteable enough to get their attenion and get added to their websites by staff members. This is important because they don't simply add every game to their listings, especially Indie games. Add to the list onrpg editors as they have a great history with game journalism. Now, looking into Alexa and PageRank, I believe they do matter. Alexa rank is an important aspect to legitimize if a site has authority/is respected or not. If these sites were not an authority on their subject, they would not get the amount of visitors needed to legitimize it as an authority on Alexa. And per the Wikipedia page on PageRank "PageRank works by counting the number and quality of links to a page to determine a rough estimate of how important the website is." If properly investigated, I believe that you will find that none of these references are fan/user-submitted material, linkfarms, PR releases or self-published. Knost05 (talk) 22:34, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As for my involvement with MonsterMMORPG, I did not know that I needed to divulge whether or not I played this game as I thought this was a discussion about the merits of MonsterMMORPG and not a closed off back and forth between current Wikipedia editors. Who I am to MonsterMMORPG shouldn't matter. What should matter is that the references are evaluated on their own merits. Knost05 (talk) 22:34, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Which they were. And the implications of a conflict of interest should be straightforward. I suggest reading through the guideline if you may have one. czar ⨹ 00:33, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a "closed-off debate", you're free to participate, you're just supposed to disclose your connections to the subject too. Sergecross73 msg me 18:10, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• delete or ((recategorize)). –Be..anyone (talk) 04:20, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete lack of reliable sources LADY LOTUS • TALK 12:12, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Its seems the source-hunting has had an opposite effect on me this time - the coverage found so far is extremely weak, with most of it either not meeting standards at WP:RS, or not meeting what's needed to have significant coverage. When these bad sources are stripped away, there's hardly anything left, in sources or source-able content. Sergecross73 msg me 13:26, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Czar pretty much sums up my thoughts on this. The self-promotion and attempts at ref bombing don't help either. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 17:48, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The article is listed here as part of a general list of Articles for creation submissions that have subsequently been nominated for deletion. That's how I found out about it, though it's important to note that any article going through those processes will be listed there. PS: FanOfNaruto has been indefinitely blocked. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 09:02, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• I've opened an SPI to check for any socking or meating. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 09:48, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Blatant promotion, not enough third-party coverage to meet WP:GNG. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 01:34, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak delete - the Silcon Era source is probably the best one of the lot, though that's not really enough. What we really need is significant coverage from general purpose, non-fan based media. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 09:00, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• COmment: Here's a brief runthrough of the sources using Google Translate:

Ultimately what we have here are three usable sources: Engadget, Silicon Era, and Oyungezer. Two of them are interviews and Oyungezer is a little iffy since it looks to be somewhat based on a press release and doesn't appear to be a review of the game itself per se. It's enough to where I can see arguments for a weak keep, but it really should have more/better sourcing than this if it is kept- otherwise it will likely get challenged and nominated for deletion again. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 10:43, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I've posted this response two other places, but I wanted to make sure it was seen by the people in this discussion as well. My relation to the game is that I'm a Chat Master for it's chat function and I play the game. I wasn't asked to create an account to argue this point I was asked to go and fix it up as the person that created it did a pretty poor job. When I went to the page to edit it I saw the Delete Nomination at which point I weighed in. I didn't think I needed to state my direct relation to the game, but after reading Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) explanation I understand why this might have been of importance.

'I would like to apologize for my role in the back and forth of it all, but I do stand by my opinion. I believe that this game is getting railroaded when it has a legitimate reason to be added to English Wikipedia. When looking at some other games, as the much more aggressive/unprofessional user added under me, it seems your editors aren't as strict.

'Either way, I understand that as it is the page is lacking, but it does have some articles that would count as references and I hope the page gets a weak keep at the very least so that I have an opportunity to edit it and get it up to snuff.

'Thanks for your time, Knost05 (talk) 21:42, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

CANVASSING. The Superonline Iletisim Hizmetleri user 176.233.41.152 has been energetically canvassing people to come here. -- Hoary (talk) 14:42, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• More canvassing: Special:Contributions/Vampirelord1985 czar ⨹ 16:41, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I got an invitation by some ip person to come here as a neutral party. I am a bit puzzled by a comment user @Woodrar made. "The reliable sources we value have staff authors with a background in something like (games) journalism and by-line (not a pseudonym), editors and editorial policies, and a "reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" as demonstrated by third-party sources citing their articles." May I ask how you would know whether a writer's byline was indeed his true birth given name or a psuedonym? Thanks if you get a moment to answer that. Until then, Cheers! WordSeventeen (talk) 14:48, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you can't know for sure, but usually you can take a pretty good guess based on what the name is. If the person writes by the name of "Don Johnson" and/or is known outside of the website by such a name, then its likely their name. If they go by "Doombringer1987", you make a pretty good guess that's not they're real name. Many video game and music websites allow any old person to create an account with any old name and let them write whatever they want. This sort of content fails WP:USERG - it's not considered a reliable sources in the Wikipedia context, and thus, is not usable to prove the notability of a subject. Sergecross73 msg me 17:54, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• I was canvassed to look here by the IP user too. Looking at this discussion, I'd like to point out that Delete and Keep aren't the only options, Move to Draft space is a valid alternative - and judging by the knife edge the sources are walking - this would seem the better solution for this article. - X201 (talk) 14:56, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Canvassed by new user (assuming same IP entity), I agree with the above statement that it should be moved out of the mainspace and put in the draft namespace. ~HackedBotato ^{Chat with me ♽ Contribs} 16:39, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Move to draft space for further work per X201. --George (Talk · Contribs · CentralAuth · Log) 16:41, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - It has enough references, is not orphan, instead of being loosing the time, you should be improving this article.--P2prules (talk) 19:22, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Can you point out with sources you find to be both reliable and cover the subject in significant detail? Also, not being an orphan is hardly a testament to being notable. Virtually any article can linked to if you try hard enough, notable or not. Sergecross73 msg me 20:14, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Vampirelord1985 canvassed me too, apparently expecting a reliable Keep !vote based upon my "experience, review and edit history of video game articles". But unbeknownst to him I hate vampire fiction and collectible card-games. So, nuke it. ...What? Those aren't valid reasons? Well, OK. Let's go with WP:ADMASQ. Good old reliable ADMASQ. Pax 19:36, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Canvassed I too was just canvassed on this, based on the sender's belief that "you are a true editor of Wikipedia who works to expand it instead of shrinking"... which is a frankly not the most likely claim to make about my editing history, but does make it clear which way the canvassing is pulling. This discussion should be weighed with such canvassing attempts in mind. (I am not casting any !vote on the article myself; I have not reviewed it and have other things to do with my day.) --Nat Gertler (talk) 20:38, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• I got canvassed, too. I don't really have a problem with sending it to draft space, but I'm a bit worried that it might end up turning into massive drama like Heaven Sent Gaming (see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:Heaven Sent Gaming). If people are willing to put up with the SPAs, promotional edits, and other drama again, go for it. Unless Jimbo puts me on the Wikimedia payroll, I'm unlikely to babysit the article, though. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 21:03, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - When/If this is moved to draft may I start adding to it and cleaning it up? Thank you for your time everyone, I'm sorry some have made this a less than easy discussion.Knost05 (talk) 21:27, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Knost05, you should start cleaning it up now; if the article really can be salvaged (I'm still hedging my bets) then it should be improved before the AfD closes. Primefac (talk) 21:29, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Primefac Of course, I'll get on it as soon as possible. Thank you again everyone for your time and patience. Knost05 (talk) 21:36, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Canvassed. :l By the IP listed above. However, I don't exactly see any reason to delete the article, so... Weak Keep? Zeke Essiestudy (talk) 02:23, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, on second thought, this (possible sock-puppeteer) canvasser is starting to grind my gears. Speedy Delete per G11. Zeke Essiestudy (talk) 04:56, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep: While I was notified about this by the mad canvasser, I see no reason not to offer neutral input.

The Siliconera bit is good, as listed at WP:VG/RS, which says that its "Interviews can be used in any article"; and Engadget is also listed as an RS. That's two good sources (although they're both interviews, which makes me a little hesitant, but not enough to change my !vote), and I unfortunately don't know Turkish to be able to do anything more than speculate based on the structure of the rest. Supernerd11 _{Firemind ^_^ Pokedex} 03:31, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep I agree with Supernerd11. Between the Silicon era piece which is listed at WP:VG/RS, and also the Engadget one that is also listed there, this article subject has significant coverage over multiple sources, and has crossed the threshold of WP:N. Cheers! WordSeventeen (talk) 07:13, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. The canvassing issue aside, there appears to be substantial enough coverage from reliable third party publications. Regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 19:34, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. I was canvassed to keep this, however looking at the sources and reading through our guidelines and polies about this topic, I don't belive this surpasses our notability guidelines. (t) Josve05a (c) 06:43, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - The sources cited are not reliable and there is not enough third-party coverage to meet the General notability guideline. - tucoxn\^talk 06:48, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Canvassed Perhaps there could be reason to keep this article, but I'm not yet seeing it. What I do see is very little actual content spread into many subsections, which is definitely not warranted. The biggest argument I could see for deletion is that the citations are very weak. There are a couple decent ones, but at least two (teknolojioku.com and haberimport.com) are clearly just press releases, as they are identical content. Like many others, I don't believe it passes notability yet. Jory (talk) 07:31, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Move to draft space - Despite the article have 2 reliable sources, it is not enough to meet the "receive significant coverage" criteria. However, I believed that if the page creator work hard enough and find more reliable sources for it, the article will be ready some day. AdrianGamer (talk) 13:43, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Keep 2 reliable sources fulfill the actual requirement of notability, it is debatable what to keep or not. Delibzr (talk) 22:22, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak keep (I wasn't canvassed :) ) - I agree completely with Tokyogirl79's analysis of the sources and find that amount of sourcing puts it right on the edge of notability. Additionally, I am inclined to error on the side of keep due to the game's large user base (as reported in Silicon Era, a reliable source). Yes, popularity is not a notability criteria, but when if tough cases we can employ common sense to decide which side to land on, and common sense says a popular game should be notable. --ThaddeusB (talk) 05:12, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

WPVG rated Siliconera as having situational reliability—it's a niche blog that we only use for English coverage of Japanese games. Of course, this is an interview, so it's somewhat in-between that and a self-published source. The three sources in question are indeed secondary, but can they be used for notability? The two main English sources are interviews unregulated by a fact-checking or editorial mechanism. czar ⨹ 12:30, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, interviews by reliable sources can contribute to notability. While not strictly secondary, they aren't strictly primary either - some level of fact-checking of things said in the interview will occur at quality publications. --ThaddeusB (talk) 01:27, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Cinemassacre Productions. (non-admin closure) Esquivalience ^t 02:01, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Mike Matei[edit]

Mike Matei (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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There was an article under this name many years ago that was deleted. Assuming this is the same person, he has certainly become much more notable since then, but it is still not clear that notability has been established. This was suggested as a ProD and was rejected after having been endorsed by a second editor (neither of whom was me), and I feel that it should go to full AfD to settle the matter. It seems to me that WP:CREATIVE and WP:ENTERTAINER are not satisfied (except perhaps criterion 2 of WP:ENTERTAINER), and general notability criteria are probably not established either. It looks to me like all the references in the current article that would establish his notability apart from Cinemassacre Productions and their various "programs" are in non-notable sources. WP:TOOSOON at best. Bueller 007 (talk) 07:44, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Fails WP:CREATIVE and WP:GNG. Safiel (talk) 14:27, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete He isn't notable. The only bit of of notability is that he works with James Rolfe (filmmaker). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:7:A180:749:8046:508C:F45:5E11 (talk) 14:41, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Redirect though I'm not sure which is the best target. The name is certainly a searchable term, but as noted, non-notable on his own and tied to Rolfe/AVGN/Cinemassacre. I just don't know which of those is the best target for this, likely Rolfe. --MASEM (t) 16:05, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete He doesn't fit the Wikipedia definition of notable. TEH (talk • contributions) 22:37, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Cinemassacre Productions (where he works and is mentioned in the lede by name) as a worthwhile search term. Article topic lacks significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. (?) It had only passing mentions in a video game reliable sources custom Google search—not enough to substantiate an article but redirects are cheap. Please ping me if more (non-English and offline) sources show in the future. czar ⨹ 21:13, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Cinemassacre Productions per Masem and Czar's comments. 23W 01:23, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Cinemassacre Productions. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 00:21, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

James & Mike Mondays[edit]

James & Mike Mondays (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This page was nominated for speedy deletion, but I removed the tag because I didn't think that it fit the criteria and it deserved to go to a full AfD debate. The few references provided for the article are all in non-notable sources. Personally, I think this show is non-notable outside of Cinemassacre Productions and it should perhaps just be merged in as a subsection there if it is not deleted outright. Note also that there is an (unreferenced) "List of James & Mike Mondays episodes" article as well. Also note that this has been mentioned on their website [1], so there is likely to be an influx of fans commenting here (as can currently be seen on the article's Talk page). Bueller 007 (talk) 14:11, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete-Non-notable Web content. Fails to provide non-trivial support. reddogsix (talk) 14:52, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - The series isn't notable and the page should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:7:A180:749:8046:508C:F45:5E11 (talk) 16:12, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - The article you referred to has no bearing on this page. Please provide a Wikipedia valid argument to support the deletion. reddogsix (talk) 16:23, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete Aside from Imdb (reliable for industry facts but not for biographical details), none of the other sources are reliable for WP:N purposes. There is already mention of the show at the Cinemassacre Productions page. Worse--THAT page looks like WP:SPAM. All of its linkable refs are from the Cinemassacre website. Major candidate for AfD. Tapered (talk) 21:13, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Cinemassacre Productions as valid/useful search term (bolded term within article, even if currently with undue weight). Article topic lacks significant coverage from reliable, independent sources and doesn't warrant its own article. (?) It had no hits in a video game reliable sources custom Google search. Please ping me if more (non-English and offline) sources show in the future. czar ⨹ 22:04, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect per Czar's comments. 23W 22:26, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect also WP:COI? TEH (talk • contributions) 01:33, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The "weak keep" opinions are weak indeed, and one of them ultimately supports deletion.  Sandstein  20:20, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Lozenge and Hampshire[edit]

Lozenge and Hampshire (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Fails WP:N. Google doesn't bring up any third-party sources, has not been mentioned in any relevant video game news outlet. Soetermans. T / C 13:36, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Weak keep-Could use some improvement. Wgolf (talk) 18:24, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a policy-based argument for keeping? Unless WP:RS significant coverage can be found, there is nothing to improve.Dialectric (talk) 12:50, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Article topic lacks significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. (?) It did not have any hits in a video game reliable sources custom Google search. There are no worthwhile redirect targets since no video game sources confirm the game's existence. Please ping me if more (non-English and offline) sources show in the future. czar ⨹ 21:56, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak keep - I'm interested in Hampshire related articles but, not... this... I'm going to find some primary sources for this as this seems salvagable. ☠ Jaguar ☠ 11:27, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What it needs is secondary source coverage (?) to show what unaffiliated sources think of the topic, not primary sources, which will, of course, always exist. czar ⨹ 13:52, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I found a somewhat descriptive entry for MobyGames for one of the series' games I know MobyGames is unreliable as it relies on user-submitted content, but that was the only decent description I could find. The game looks pretty awful for December 2000. What I don't understand is that it's a fairly contemporary game series and there are almost no sources for it. I've seen other black holes for some games on the internet but a search from the VG custom search engine finds nothing on the series. Somebody asked what happened to Lozenge and Hampshire but I can see why this is up for deletion if there are no sources. I don't think this is salvagable, so sadly I would support a deletion unless something comes up. ☠ Jaguar ☠ 15:52, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - software (game) article of unclear notability, lacking independent references. A search turned up no significant RS coverage of this software.Dialectric (talk) 12:48, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Consensus seems to be the contant is notable but its not so cut and dried that this needs a standalone article. I'd suggest a merge proposal would be a better vehicle then AFD to decide that. Spartaz ^Humbug! 19:51, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Shield Knight[edit]

Shield Knight (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Character is a non-notable secondary character of a single-game indie series. I suggest either deletion or redirection to Shovel Knight. Pyrotle {^T/_C} 19:48, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Weak Keep I'm not seeing a lack of non-notability here - secondary sources specifically discussing the character beyond just a gameplay element is exactly what we want to see to pass the GNG. That doesn't mean we necessarily need the separate article and merging what's here to Shovel Knight would be a possible suggestion, but definitely not deletion. --MASEM (t) 22:54, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, decent sources are used to describe the character's conception and reception, and integrating those (or even just the conception and creation-section) into the Shovel Knight article would make that article focus on her character in too much integrate detail. ~Mable (chat) 05:23, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep has 7 different secondary sources and 2 of which are reliable in the field, only source primary is the kick starter page itself but that is pretty minor in the makeup of the article. Bryce Carmony (talk) 06:07, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Shovel Knight. Article topic lacks significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. (?) The article, as written, is a series of passing mentions strung together (more on this in a moment). There are no sources of substance to add from a video game reliable sources custom Google search. The character has no out-of-universe significance and is discussed as an element of gameplay. The only articles that treat the topic as its own subject are [2] and [3], both short and about the related update. The other articles are a collection of passing mentions about the character. There's certainly enough to explain the character in the parent article, but not nearly enough coverage to warrant its own article. Please ping me if more (non-English and offline) sources show in the future. czar ⨹ 22:27, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep-per what others said. Wgolf (talk) 19:53, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to List of Asterix games#Video games . j⚛e decker^talk 15:27, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Asterix & Friends[edit]

Asterix & Friends (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Not Notable enough. Can't find lots of reliable sources for this one. AdrianGamer (talk) 03:31, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Or redirect it to Asterix or its developer Sproing Interactive Media. AdrianGamer (talk) 03:38, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Redirect to List of Asterix games#Video games and list it there, as with all the other Asterix games not notable enough for their own articles. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 13:24, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• redirect as above. Joseph2302 (talk) 23:01, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to the list of character games, though I think it'd be nicer to link to gamigo AG, a studio with a game by the same name (same game?) Anyway, easy. Before coming to AfD, always see if a simple, cheap redirect could save the day. Article topic lacks significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. (?) It only had passing mentions in a video game reliable sources custom Google search, mostly repackaged press releases, but enough hits to warrant a redirect to the parent studio. Please ping me if more (non-English and offline) sources show in the future. czar ⨹ 22:21, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Consensus herein is for deletion. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 21:22, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

WOTgreal[edit]

WOTgreal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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A video game engine that seems to have little notability and the article has been tagged for notability for 7 years now. Wgolf (talk) 00:09, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Comment It may or may not be notable, but "not having been improved for 7 years" is not a reason for deletion -- and neither is being "defunct" DGG ( talk ) 00:40, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

True that isn't a reason for a afd-but I was trying to think of something to say beyond not being notable, but yes I do agree being defunct is not a reason for deletion. Wgolf (talk) 00:43, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Pinging Randomran who tagged this for notability and I've left a message at Wikiproject Computing. Boleyn (talk) 06:45, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Not my area of expertise, but I was surprised there weren't more Ghits. It definitely exists, but I couldn't establish that it meets WP:ORG or WP:GNG. A possible redirect target would be Unreal#See also, where companies like this, including WOTgreal, are listed. Boleyn (talk) 07:13, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Article topic lacks significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. (?) Only a few listings in a video game reliable sources custom Google search, none substantial. There are no worthwhile redirect targets—only other hit on WP is at UnrealScript, an unsourced listing. Please ping me if more (non-English and offline) sources show in the future. czar ⨹ 22:14, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 21:19, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Aryan Networks[edit]

Aryan Networks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Company with no evidence of notability, a Google search doesn't come up with anything either. All sources appear to be self-published. Joseph2302 (talk) 00:00, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete. Self promotion. Huddsblue (talk) 01:42, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Besides no Google hits, the company was purportedly founded from scratch within the last five days so notability would be unlikely. —Largo Plazo (talk) 02:20, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete No notability. Lakun.patra (talk) 09:04, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Not notable, with a bit of terrible branding to boot (suffice to say, "Aryan" has a bit of baggage on it in the West). Nate • (chatter) 15:21, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Clearly self promotion, They can go self promote elsewhere. –Davey2010^Talk 01:48, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Fails WP:GNG and Promotional.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 04:31, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy redirect to List of Pokémon (650–720). SK#1: nom withdrawn, and no other deletion arguments czar ⨹ 01:53, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Volcanion (Pokémon)[edit]

Volcanion (Pokémon) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Non-notable, run of the mill Pokemon. Howicus (Did I mess up?) 20:22, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Changing my opinion to Redirect and wondering why I didn't think of that...(embarassed). Howicus (Did I mess up?) 22:39, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Redirect - to some "list of..." type article, whatever is out there that fits. The Wikipedia is not a Pokedex, esp for subjects that have no received direct coverage in reliable sources. Tarc (talk) 14:47, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to the applicable list of Pokémon. Zero sources to establish notability. ~Mable (chat) 12:56, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to List of Pokémon (650–720) where it should be added as #721. Probably could have done this yourself with little fanfare before coming to AfD. Article topic lacks significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. (?) It only had passing mentions in a video game reliable sources custom Google search—enough for a listing but not enough to support a fully-featured article. Please ping me if more (non-English and offline) sources show in the future. czar ⨹ 18:07, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to console exclusivity. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 19:45, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Paid exclusivity[edit]

Paid exclusivity (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Sometimes, the right answer is to bite the newbie and delete the article. When the original content was seemingly written by a petulant child, the wrong answer is to try and polish it. This article is essentially a POV-fork to console exclusivity and should just be deleted and redirected.

"Paid exclusivity" is not a term used anywhere but in forums populated by gamers with no understanding of business, which is why the earliest example cited dates from only 2007. In media where the most vocal aren't petulant children, people generally understand that you have to pay for exclusivity agreements, so "paid exclusivity" is not a term used when discussing things like sports rights. No one is going to search for "paid exclusivity" to look for anything other than video games. - hahnchen 12:34, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to Console exclusivity, which seems to be about the same thing. Kitfoxxe (talk) 13:14, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete I agree with Gene that there is some content here that could go nicely in Console exclusivity. "Paid exclusivity" when not focused on just consoles is too broad of a concept. it could contain everything from intellectual properties to tariffs. What this article is really about is Console exclusivity ( which doesn't have a section for paid exclusivity so it would make the article better for the reader ) Bryce Carmony (talk) 07:57, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to console exclusivity. Not independently notable apart from a general topic on "exclusivity agreements in video games". If that's currently called "console exclusivity", that works. As a phrase, though, the topic lacks significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. (?) No dedicated coverage about "paid exclusivity" as a practice apart from exclusivity deals themselves and reports of individual paid exclusive deals. The phrase only had passing mentions in a video game reliable sources custom Google search. Please ping me if more (non-English and offline) sources show in the future. czar ⨹ 21:17, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to console exclusivity. Kharkiv07^Talk 21:53, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Nakon 06:44, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

WWE 2K (Mobile Game)[edit]

WWE 2K (Mobile Game) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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As an article that says nothing about this game other than its release date, price and key features it is spam. Most of it is based upon a press release published by the WWE site (as licencee, not independent), the remainder being two brief announcements in gaming websites that do not themselves appear to be notable, so notability is not established. RichardOSmith (talk) 06:49, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• delete. No sources to show notability. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:49, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect/Merge – Currently the only coverage from secondary source game websites is the press release announcement stuff. For now, I would suggest redirecting to WWE 2K per WP:TOOSOON. It might expand enough in the future to split off into a separate article again. Also this article needs renaming, "G" shouldn't be capitalised in "Game". – The1337gamer (talk) 19:33, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect/Merge - It is a notable video game. The editor just didn't use the notable source. See this one from GameSpot and VideoGamer.com. Notability is definitely established. However, its problems is that it violates copyright as the entire gameplay section is copy from WWE.com directly. Now that it is removed, I agree with The1337gamer's point. It is too soon to have the article. AdrianGamer (talk) 05:35, 1 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Of course the original copyrighted text was re-inserted by the original author including the pricing info - removed again but I suspect it will be put back.Peter Rehse (talk) 12:06, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect for now, with the possibility of a full-fledged article in the future. --George (Talk · Contribs · CentralAuth · Log) 17:31, 1 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game-related deletion discussions. (G·N·B·S·RS·Talk) • Gene93k (talk) 02:34, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:34, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wrestling-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:34, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, not a crystal ball, including spam. –Be..anyone (talk) 05:14, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete No real content beyond advert for a product yet to be released. No indication that this is notable.Peter Rehse (talk) 12:06, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete WP:TOOSOON, WP:CRYSTAL. Joseph2302 (talk) 22:59, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  19:12, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wizards world[edit]

Wizards world (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Can't find any reliable sources for this game, and article is little more than a WP:GAMEGUIDE. Could be the case that references are in Russian, but I couldn't find any. Sam Walton (talk) 11:40, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game-related deletion discussions. (G·N·B·S·RS·Talk) • Gene93k (talk) 00:51, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:51, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:51, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• ((subst:transwiki|ru)) ends up in Category:Proposed deletion as of unknown date 2015. –Be..anyone (talk) 01:20, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• @Thibbs, have anything in Russian sources for this? czar ⨹ 02:12, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nope. I don't have much in the way of Russian coverage past 2000... -Thibbs (talk) 03:33, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Well, article topic lacks significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. (?) It had no meaningful hits in a video game reliable sources custom Google search. There are no worthwhile redirect targets. Please ping me if more (non-English and offline) sources show in the future. czar ⨹ 05:02, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]